American Car Enthusiasts

[Firstgear]

For those of you (probably just mostly us Canadians & Americans) that have fond memories of the old muscle cars, or any other american cars, you may find this site interesting. It contains images of many of the original factory brochures. It's nicely organized by make - year - model. A friend sent me the link and I enjoyed poking thru it - looking at all the cars I had in the past - so I thought I'd pass it along.

www.lov2xlr8.no/broch1.html (http://www.lov2xlr8.no/broch1.html)

[EuroTroll]

Excellent brochures. :up:

My dad used to have a Chrysler Vision. Lovely comfortable car with lots of power. Really crap to drive though; the steering was all over the place. I have fond memories of it, though. :)

[schmenke]

Not quite a muscle car, but growing up, one of our more memorable family rides was a 1977 Ford LTD station wagon, with faux wood trim along the sides. It was a beast of a vehicle that could seat 8 comfortably (10 if two of the passengers were small and didn’t mind riding without seatbelts :erm: )

It cruised the highways powered by a V-8 429 cu. in. lump. I think at the time the only Ford engine with a larger displacement was the 449 cu. in. which powered the LTD’s sister boat, the Mercury Marquis.

The LTD wagon was the vehicle featured as the Griswald’s car in the film National Lampoon’s Vacation :uhoh: .

[Gregor-y]

I grew up in the back seat of Honda Accords, though my mother did have a Beetle until I was six. Do you know how many five year old kids you could fit in one of those things?

My Grandfather, on the other hand, bought a brand new Chevy Citation in 1980. It spent more time at the mechanic than at his house until about 1982 when it was finally working properly.

Muscle cars are nostalgia for old men who couldn't afford them in the 60s and now have massive amounts of cash in their retirement to pretend they're teenagers again. It's either one of these or a new Corvette.

[edv]

Thanks for the Link.
Looked at several of my old cars.
Seeing the 426 Street Hemi as an option on the 1968 Charger R/T got me a little misty-eyed.

[airshifter]

Not quite a muscle car, but growing up, one of our more memorable family rides was a 1977 Ford LTD station wagon, with faux wood trim along the sides. It was a beast of a vehicle that could seat 8 comfortably (10 if two of the passengers were small and didn’t mind riding without seatbelts :erm: )

It cruised the highways powered by a V-8 429 cu. in. lump. I think at the time the only Ford engine with a larger displacement was the 449 cu. in. which powered the LTD’s sister boat, the Mercury Marquis.

The LTD wagon was the vehicle featured as the Griswald’s car in the film National Lampoon’s Vacation :uhoh: .

My first car was a 429 powered Thunderbird, and I think that was the first car to get the 429 engine. As far as I've always known the sister Mercury cars used the same engines with minor changes.... I've never heard of a 449 Ford engine. I know the Thunderbirds and I think a couple of others (Lincolns, possibly some LTDs) could be had with the 460 engines, but I'm not sure of the last dates those larger engines were sold. The 460 lived in the full sized trucks into the 90's.



As for the link, great stuff. I've got an old book that is reprints of muscle cars mostly from the late 60's to mid 70's. If I knew then what I know now, I would have been figuring out how to buy a good piece of my high school parking lot. Super Duty 455's, W30 442's, plenty of small block Mopars, and the occasional Hemi. Good days. :D

[schmenke]

My first car was a 429 powered Thunderbird, and I think that was the first car to get the 429 engine. As far as I've always known the sister Mercury cars used the same engines with minor changes.... I've never heard of a 449 Ford engine....

I could be wrong airshifter. I seem to recall the Marquis, although an identical body and platform to the LTD, had a larger engine.

[airshifter]

I could be wrong airshifter. I seem to recall the Marquis, although an identical body and platform to the LTD, had a larger engine.

I'm not 100% certain either, just saying I don't remember a 449 engine. I think a few times here and there some brands did have engines used only in that brand of car, I just don't know if Mercury had any. It could be they had a 449. :) Some of those old engines were torque beasts.

[Tazio]

Not quite a muscle car, but growing up, one of our more memorable family rides was a 1977 Ford LTD station wagon, with faux wood trim along the sides. It was a beast of a vehicle that could seat 8 comfortably (10 if two of the passengers were small and didn’t mind riding without seatbelts :erm: )

It cruised the highways powered by a V-8 429 cu. in. lump. I think at the time the only Ford engine with a larger displacement was the 449 cu. in. which powered the LTD’s sister boat, the Mercury Marquis.

The LTD wagon was the vehicle featured as the Griswald’s car in the film National Lampoon’s Vacation :uhoh: .
My father also had a Ford LTD Station Wagon. I don't recall it being a real brute though. I learned to drive in a Pontiac Bonneville that was a bit of a monster. Then there was his Buick Electra with the 455 I scared the crap out of my friends with that thing. I scared myself as well. :uhoh:
The guy across the street was a navy Top Gun Pilot at NAS Miramar. He had a Pontiac GTO with three deuces. It was really cool the way those carb’s kicked in. My first car that I bought with my own money was a 1965 Corvair Monza I used to drift that thing long before drifting had a name. ;)

[Tazio]

Muscle cars are nostalgia for old men who couldn't afford them in the 60s and now have massive amounts of cash in their retirement to pretend they're teenagers again. It's either one of these or a new Corvette.
Really? I knew lots of guys that had muscle cars growing up in the 60's and 70's. All you needed was a steady job and a little savings, or you could get them used for a song, they just weren’t that expensive. And if you were a wrench, you could build them for them for drag racing. You my friend are laboring under a misconception. Then again I can’t really blame you. You kind of had to be there :rolleyes:

[Tazio]

BTW a 1966 hardtop Pontiac GTO's list price was $2,800

[Gregor-y]

Really? I knew lots of guys that had muscle cars growing up in the 60's and 70's. All you needed was a steady job and a little savings, or you could get them used for a song, they just weren’t that expensive. And if you were a wrench, you could build them for them for drag racing. You my friend are laboring under a misconception. Then again I can’t really blame you. You kind of had to be there :rolleyes:
I grew up in the 70s and 80s and muscle cars were pretty rare and definitely not cheap, even five to ten years ten after their heyday. Sure there were plenty of normal Chevelles, Skylarks and Bonnevilles around, but nothing so flash as what you see at auctions today. Most adults I knew were busy paying for families and houses and the only person who went out and bought a Lil Red Express was the guy that was still living with his parents who had very few financial obligations. Pittsburgh at the time was reeling from all the steel mill closures so people didn't have a lot of spare cash.

Maybe everyone in California was rich at the time. It kind of looked nice on CHiPs. As you said I wasn't there.

[Tazio]

I grew up in the 70s and 80s and muscle cars were pretty rare and definitely not cheap, even five to ten years ten after their heyday. Sure there were plenty of normal Chevelles, Skylarks and Bonnevilles around, but nothing so flash as what you see at auctions today. Most adults I knew were busy paying for families and houses and the only person who went out and bought a Lil Red Express was the guy that was still living with his parents who had very few financial obligations. Pittsburgh at the time was reeling from all the steel mill closures so people didn't have a lot of spare cash.

Maybe everyone in California was rich at the time. It kind of looked nice on CHiPs. As you said I wasn't there.
I can appreciate your posture in this matter as Western Pennsylvania really did take a huge hit in the steel industry; I married a woman whose family left Butler for San Diego in 1970.
At that time the economy was very robust in Southern California. It wasn't until the mid 80's that it tanked for a little while. There was a culture of muscle cars in Southern Cal, and you really did see a lot of Challenger, Chargers, GTO's, and etc. Corvettes were a whole different story, by the late 60's they were already very pricey. I think you make a good point about your experience, but that was not the case in Southern California.
Chips lol, that’s funny! They were always chasing someone in a muscle, or pony car ;)
Peace my man :)

[Gregor-y]

No worries; I was more grumpy about the state of things today than passing judgement on the past. I've met plenty of people in Chicago with family histories of drag and street racing both here and around Detroit. Pittsburgh was a pretty confining place. And if I find a decent job on the California coast I'll still move there in a heartbeat.

[Jag_Warrior]

I was shooting the bull with some guys around my age at a facility I go to about once a month. I was telling them how my dream car when I was a teenager (late 70's/early 80's) was a Dodge Challenger or a Plymouth 'Cuda. A guy near where I lived had a Challenger with a 340, a 4 speed and a triple-deuce setup. But he wanted $800 for it! Way too much money for me. So I ended up with a Plymouth Roadrunner (the rounded "boat"/early 70's model, not the square bodied late 60's model that I liked). It had a 383 Magnum and an auto transmission, and even came with an extra 383 engine - all for $500. I snapped that one up, but sold it not too long after I got it together. My problem was paying for the insurance. That's what kept most of the younger guys I knew out of muscle cars back then. And really, when we talk about how you could get this or that car for a couple grand, you also have to remember that a couple grand was a lot of money for a teen/early 20's guy when minimum wage was $3/hour.

What I can't figure out these days are the kids who can afford WRX's, STI's and Evos... in high school! I mean, a $30K+ car is bad enough. But how do they afford the insurance?! I let my girl's nephew drive my XK8 to his prom a couple of years back. He begged and I felt like he'd earned a break. But to ease my mind, his aunt and I swung through the parking lot, just to make sure there was no drinking or foolishness going on during the event, and that place was loaded with jazzed up sport tuners. Nice ones too! Not just tarty Civics, with wings and giant fart can mufflers (although there were some of those too). The next day I asked him if the other kids had also borrowed some of the cars I saw to go to prom? Nope. He named off the guys who had the WRX's, STI's, Evos, BMW's and even a Porsche Boxster as daily drivers. And since he said they weren't "rich kids"... I'd really like to know just how these kids can afford these things - and the insurance!

If one of those kids would share the secrets of his success with me, maybe I could afford to buy a '63 Corvette split window... without postponing my retirement until age 93.

[Tazio]

^^^^Yes I don't understand how young people can pay for insurance for any car that is financed these days. The answer is simple though their parents pay for it.
The last two vehicles I've purchased (slightly used Tundra, and a new Aprilia 750) I paid for with cash. I carry the absolute minimum on the Aprilia, and on the Tundra minimum with extended liability. If I do more than the minimum in a wreck on my Cycle I probably wouldn't be alive to pay it. Auto insurance is the biggest con going IMO.
I'm extremely careful when I'm driving. ;)

[Roamy]

I once was told something I will take to the grave with me !

There are only two kinds of car freaks

!. Those who have Ferraris
2. Those who want Ferraris

So far in my life this is the truth. As far as I am concerned our old sh!t is just good for making fence wire.

[Gregor-y]

Way too fiddly. I want a well preserved Volvo 240 that I can own for the rest of my life.

[Tazio]

Way too fiddly. I want a well preserved Volvo 240 that I can own for the rest of my life.


I had a 1972 Volvo 164 in the early 90's. It was in excellent condition and really was a joy to drive. The straight six power-plant in that rig was a perfect balance of fuel economy and power. It was a real shame that a woman T-boned me and totaled it. Great cars those old Volvos
Way off topic now Gregor-y, I was driving from Colombia MD to Alameda CA. It was raining on the Pennsylvania Turnpike and I was getting a little low on gas so I pulled off at an exit that said Beaver Falls. I decided to refuel there just so I could be on the tierra firma where Joe "Willie" Namath grew up. As soon as I stepped out of the car a bolt of lightning struck the ground about 150 yards away, scared the crap out of me. I filled up poste haste, and got the hell out of there. At least I stopped in Broadway Joe's hometown. I loved it when he and the Jets would come to SD to play The Charges. I worked the games so I saw them all. A typical game between them usually ended with both teams scoring in the 40's or higher. Regardless of the outcome Joe would always be quoted as saying John Hadl was the best QB in the league. I realized after some time much later he probably said the same thing about Lenny Dawson in KC, Daryl "The Mad Bomber" Lamonica when in Oakland, and Bob Griese in Miami. Namath was unmatched in the late 60's and 70's. I'm going to stretch my luck by posting a video. He does mention a car he asked for as a signing bonus so it has some pertanence to the thread subject. ;) :uhoh: :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrUgB55lLM4

[Gregor-y]

Dear God, not Football. You couldn't get away from it in Pittsburgh. My father had two TVs next to each other with one showing to the Pittsburgh game and another set to a Youngstown, Ohio station that was covering the Cleveland Browns. The sound on both was turned off on both since the radio was tuned to Myron Cope providing better local commentary.
Of course the only thing that mattered was this:
Immaculate Reception - original broadcast - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xMDIcsUMmA)

Congratulations on surviving the PA Turnpike (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Turnpike). It was one of the first true highways in the US built in the late 30s but it didn't have any of the design features that make most modern roads relaxing.

[schmenke]

.... The straight six power-plant in that rig was a perfect balance of fuel economy and power....

That reminds me of the other family vehicle we once had: a 1964 Plymouth Valiant, with a slant-six, 225(?) cu. in. engine. I believe it produced about 180hp which wasn’t stellar but that engine was indestructible. We owned that car well into the 1980’s and Chrysler was still producing and fitting that engine into several of their new cars.
The Valiant we had was equipped with push-button automatic transmission and was the car I first learned to drive :) .

I remember the road trip the family did in that car one summer, pulling a pop-up tent trailer from Montreal to Florida :eek: . The water pump gave out somewhere in South Carolina but as luck would have it, the first service station we limped into happened to have a replacement :D

I don't know what the final odemeter was when we finally got rid of it (the rear differential gave way, but the engine was still in perfect running order) because the speedometer stopped working long ago :p : .

[Tazio]

Valiants were a very popular car, and they did seem to run forever. A buddy of mine had a Rambler Station Wagon with a push-button automatic. I'm not sure what year it was I would guess early to mid 60's. We used to load the Surfboards in the back and cruised to south Mission Beach, La Jolla Shores, and even take it to the playas. There are several good breaks before you even get to Rosarito Beach which is about 35 Kilometers south of the border. We had our system worked out so that we would bring cannabis down but leave it in tupperware containers and when we left we hid them in the eroded cavities of the cliffs so we didn't have to worry about scrutiny, by :s ailor: U.S.Customs :s mokin:

[Tazio]

If I'd have sold everything I owned in 1967 (it wasn't much), I could have bought the 427 Cobra on the showroom floor at Koons Ford in Arlington Va for $6000 - sticker price. Of course I'd have been dead in a week. :p Had a friend with a 64 Pontiac Tempest with the 326 engine. It was the predecessor of the GTO. He could afford everything except keeping rear tires on it. Too bad those days are long gone.They sure are long gone, along with service attendants at gas stations!! ;) I had a friend whose father was an exec with New York Life in S.D. He got his wife a new Cadillac every other year, but he was into more sporty models He had a 1970 Corvette, but I thought his 1966 Lancia Flaminia Zagato SS was the badest car I ever rode in at the time. The cobra would blow either one away, but The Lancia looked and sounded so cool with its tall gearing. It didn't have the grunt his ‘vette had, but it sounded wicked when he took it through the gears. That little hummer was my first experience with a high revving imported sportster. I preferred it to the 'vette. I bet that thing is worth a fortune in today’s market :)

[Roamy]

They sure are long gone, along with service attendants at gas stations!! ;) I had a friend whose father was an exec with New York Life in S.D. He got his wife a new Cadillac every other year, but he was into more sporty models He had a 1970 Corvette, but I thought his 1966 Lancia Flaminia Zagato SS was the badest car I ever rode in at the time. The cobra would blow either one away, but The Lancia looked and sounded so cool with its tall gearing. It didn't have the grunt his ‘vette had, but it sounded wicked when he took it through the gears. That little hummer was my first experience with a high revving imported sportster. I preferred it to the 'vette. I bet that thing is worth a fortune in today’s market :)

Holy sh!t i suppose I should be in prison. I was doing my girlfriend in the back of my 56 dodge where my beautiful daughter was probably conceived. I was 18 she was 17 so I hope they don't come and get me to serve 10 yrs.
Is this country getting disgusting or what. OHOHOH my God you got a piece of ass. Holy sh!t lets do a world wide investigation.

[Tazio]

Holy issues sh!t i suppose I should be in prison. OHOHOH my God you got a piece of ass. Holy sh!t lets do a world wide investigation.
Take it easy Chief. The US was doomed the moment the Puritans landed on our glorious soil. Things like liberty appear to be eroding, and in many ways they are. I used to joke with my father that there are so many new laws that both him and my mother, along with most of my siblings would be in prison if they were applied retroactively. Although I really do love my country, but that is not a good enough reason for me to be a political reactionary. Americans used to speak fondly of our being a "melting pot" of all colors creeds and nationalities. Now that that it is truly becoming a reality, it conjures, in a certain elements of our society more prejudice than it was supposed to eliminate. This kind of hypocrisy (the lack of foresight) is not our exclusive domain. The entirety of western civilization has their little political issues like illegal immigration if their society is one that is desirable. Most Americans don't really know how well off they really are. I saw something on the tube about 10 years ago that really cracked me up. I saw an interview with an Italian pleasure-craft builder. The price of his guy’s yachts started at $1,000,000 USD. He was implying that his company in Venice could not prosper because Italy at the time was restricting work visa's and his problem was that he needed Slovenians, because of what great builders they were. I'm listening to this freakin’ guy and thinking.... Hmmm the city that was once the greatest City-State in the world due mostly to their domination of the Mediterranean because of their ship building ability can't find freakin' Venetians or other Italians in the area that could out-build Slovenians, or at least equal them? Then it hit me, what this yahoo was really saying was he wants Slovenians, because what he really meant was he didn't want to pay the going rate for native ship builders. I draw an analogy to Mexicans working in the U.S. because it only became a problem twice in our great counties history. The first time was in the great depression. The US government was persuaded to make the possession of Marijuana illegal for the sole purpose of eliminating Mexicans ( who loved their pot) from the southwestern part of the US to help Americans with job openings mostly in Texas, even though these Mexicans had roots going back for generations in that part of the North America. The most recent exodus from Mexico was the direct responsibility of several large industries not giving a sh!t about the US Craftsmen, when they can hire someone to do the work with less quality for half price. In our life time we have seen Mexicans whose only real purpose for being here was to be migrant farm workers, to a huge demographic in our society mostly because the government turned a blind eye as corporations illegally hired them without fear of recrimination. I remember listening to Caesar Chavez when I was attending San Diego State University speaking on behalf of the cruel conditions these migrants faced at the hands of growers in the San Joachim Valley. I walked away from this rally realizing his cause was just.
Now through the greed of American Land Developers, and industrial Meat Producers they have a strangle hold on the industries that were previously, and proudly performed by working class Americans.
I would like to end this post with a quote from Abraham Lincoln:


At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Peace dude :cool:

[Roamy]

Taz
nice but our country is in the sh!tter because or our politicians and there seems to be no road out

[Tazio]

Taz
nice but our country is in the sh!tter because or our politicians and there seems to be no road out

Let me reiterate:

As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Don't punk out

[Tazio]

Let me reiterate:

Don't punk outl


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSvH4s-4sCQ