English

[BDunnell]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

[schmenke]

Wots ur point BDunnell?

[EuroTroll]

Thanks for the compliment! :cool: I studied in an English-specialized high school called Tallinn English College. We had many English lessons, as well as English Literature, American Literature, and some other subjects in English. After that I went to uni in Helsinki where I also studied mostly in English; there was a special program for foreigners. Added to that, I've watched a lot of British comedy shows, which are excellent for picking up how the language is actually spoken: used and misused.

[Eki]

Well, I guess the biggest help has been that in Finland (I guess it's the same in Estonia) the English language TV programs and movies (and they are plenty) aren't dubbed into a local language, like in many bigger countries. I found it very amusing watching American sitcoms dubbed in Polish in a hotel room in Poland. Or watching Dallas dubbed in Spanish in a motel room in California. I think I have picked up most of the colloquial English I know from TV and radio.

For the more serious stuff, most of the literature in my line of engineering is in English, so being able to read and produce it, knowing the lingo is a must.

Then there's of course the Internet.

Schooling has also played a role, but it has mostly provided just the basics.

[schmenke]

Just curious, how easy is it for an Estonian to pick up the Finnish language, and vice vesra?

[EuroTroll]

Just curious, how easy is it for an Estonian to pick up the Finnish language, and vice vesra?

Easier than any other language, that's for sure. There are so many common words, and the structures of the two languages are very similar.

[A.F.F.]

What I like about this forum is that folks here are very forgiving with written english. One doesn't have to be a champion with english to be understood :up:

btw... studiose, why wiruwiru?

[EuroTroll]

btw... studiose, why wiruwiru?

It was time for the old user name to go, as I'm no longer a student. "wiruwiru" just came to mind as a funny noise. :p :

[donKey jote]

didn't you know? wiruwiru is English slang for "big fat stupid donkey-nose" :) :andrea:

[EuroTroll]

didn't you know? wiruwiru is English slang for "big fat stupid donkey-nose" :) :andrea:

That's alright then! :up: :p :

[BDunnell]

The abysmal education system in the US isn't helping folks over here get any better at it either.

I didn't want to say it, for fear of being rounded on from some quarter or another as 'anti-American', but I think you are right. One sees it on these forums. The superb written English of some of the non-native speakers in this very thread is in stark contrast to some from across the Atlantic.

[donKey jote]

yep, innit like ! :andrea:

[schmenke]

The public school system in my town has gone overly PC. There is a proposal with the school council to drop the popular “English as a Second Language” (ESL) program, introduced several years ago to assist newly arrived immigrant children to learn English, and replace it with either (or both) Mandarin and Arabic language instruction for all students :s .
French language instruction, despite being mandatory under Canada’s Official Languages Act legislation, is being phased out of the public school system because it has been surpassed by both Mandarin and Arabic as a second language spoken by families here :s .

Apologies for the rant :mark: .

[pino]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

Thanks, your compliments are very appreciated :up: :erm: :p :

[janvanvurpa]

didn't you know? wiruwiru is English slang for "big fat stupid donkey-nose" :) :andrea:

Donquito mio before we ass-ume that don't you think it would be studious to ask Mr__________ just which letter values he is intending?

en anglais, those w are probably the Angleski "w" sound and the 'i' are always troublesome as the could be a short 'i' or a drawled "eye" >
But if he is using letter values that most of the rest of the Indo-European family uses then it could be said "v" then like French, Spanish or Pork-n-cheese 'i' akin to Englisch 'ee' and that r is very likely trilled a bit as you do when braying as you Burros do occasionally so it could be "Veeerrrru-Veeerrrru'.

And we all know what Veeeeeru-Veeerru means (he said blushing violently)...Harumph!

mi caro mamasita me dijo "Always try to say people's names correctly, Juanito" So Burritito mio, on something so important don't you think it would be best to stelle ein frage to our friend von estland?

[EuroTroll]

Dein Freund von Estland does not care! :laugh:

[janvanvurpa]

Dein Freund von Estland does not care! :laugh:

You may snot care but the general subject here was Good Englische so naturlich we must know!

What would happen if every time I see your name I think Veeeeerrrrrrrru! It will cause me to be even more confused what language I'm writing and as you see it's bad enough already.....

[EuroTroll]

You may snot care but the general subject here was Good Englische so naturlich we must know!

What would happen if every time I see your name I think Veeeeerrrrrrrru! It will cause me to be even more confused what language I'm writing and as you see it's bad enough already.....

You swear a bit in Finnish, right? :) That's a good start. ;) Replace the "w" with a "v", and you've got yourself a county in Estonia from which the Finnish word for Estonia is derived. My family is from there. Now what I did -- and this is where it gets interesting :p -- is used the word not once but twice.

I think we've now spent enough time on my personalfrage. :laugh:

[Eki]

What's the saying? America and England - divided by a common language. :p The abysmal education system in the US isn't helping folks over here get any better at it either.
I noticed that when I visited the US. People didn't seem to recognize words/terms like "toilet" or "mobile phone". I had to use "cell phone" and "restroom" instead. I guess an average American doesn't have a vocabulary that reaches much beyond American dialects?



All things pass though and any young person today would be well advised to learn some Chinese or Spanish.
I also noticed that I had a better understanding with American engineers with European heritage than with Hispanic or black fast food restaurant workers. Although the background noise in the fast food restaurants also played a role.

[schmenke]

...I had to use "cell phone" and "restroom"...

Neither of which are incorrect :)

[Eki]

Neither of which are incorrect :)
Of course not, but words do have synonyms.

[Mark]

I think the point there is that American culture is so pervasive that we all know what 'cell phone' and 'restroom' mean but the same doesn't work in reverse.

[A.F.F.]

John swears way too little in finnish. And way too much with swedish :mark:

[janvanvurpa]

You swear a bit in Finnish, right? :) That's a good start. ;) Replace the "w" with a "v", and you've got yourself a county in Estonia from which the Finnish word for Estonia is derived. My family is from there. Now what I did -- and this is where it gets interesting :p -- is used the word not once but twice.

I think we've now spent enough time on my personalfrage. :laugh:

OK but why do your neighbors call you "igauņu"?

We know there are Burros running around in Hannover who speak English pretty good (for a donkey) and Nemeski and presumably Spagnola, but are there large scary lizzards in your homeland? What did you guys do to them to make them call you that?

[janvanvurpa]

John swears way too little in finnish. And way too much with swedish :mark:


That's not true (sniffle).. And it's not true that different co-drivers after only one rally with me have learned how to swear in both Swedish and Finnish..
That's a viscous rumor..

It usually takes 2 rallies..and they learn French and German, and even some Spanish too....

[EuroTroll]

OK but why do your neighbors call you "igauņu"?

We know there are Burros running around in Hannover who speak English pretty good (for a donkey) and Nemeski and presumably Spagnola, but are there large scary lizzards in your homeland? What did you guys do to them to make them call you that?

It also comes from the name of a county, an ancient one in the South, called "Ugandi". :)

Your knowledge never ceases to amaze, John. ;)

[Gregor-y]

My German is terrible because it was taught by a Tyrolean. I think the bigger problem is while so many students in the US begin to learn other languages they really don't have much opportunity to use them and can't retain or expand their knowledge after leaving school.

[donKey jote]

surely you could use Spanish in much of the US ?

[donKey jote]

We know there are Burros running around in Hannover who speak English pretty good (for a donkey) and Nemeski and presumably Spagnola,
English is in fact my mother tongue, Castellano would be my lengua paterna (if he weren't Éireannach :p ), and Deutsch is my Eselsprache :)

[EuroTroll]

English is in fact my mother tongue, Castellano would be my lengua paterna (if he weren't Éireannach :p ), and Deutsch is my Eselsprache :)

You should be the gate-keeper at the Tower of Babel. ;) :p :

[janvanvurpa]

It also comes from the name of a county, an ancient one in the South, called "Ugandi". :)

Your knowledge never ceases to amaze, John. ;)

Way waaaaaaaay South I guess. Was the big boss down there named Idi Amin?
And are there big scary lizards running around?
Vituuuuuun!!!!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I blame Shakespeare.

[janvanvurpa]

English is in fact my mother tongue, Castellano would be my lengua paterna (if he weren't Éireannach :p ), and Deutsch is my Eselsprache :)

Well you write it pretty good for a ....well.......but I can't imagine with the keyboard looks like....your hooves must pound the mierda out of it...

[donKey jote]

You should be the gate-keeper at the Tower of Babel. ;) :p :
nah, this guy should :laugh:
dABo_DCIdpM

[donKey jote]

Well you write it pretty good for a ....well.......but I can't imagine with the keyboard looks like....your hooves must pound the mierda out of it...
it's not just my hooves ;) :eek: :p :andrea:

[tfp]

I must also compliment everyone on here who isn't from an english speaking country, many people, Juha Koo AFF NOT OldF and many, many others speak perfect english on here, I sometimes feel guilty because I cant really speak another language!

Or a bit of German parhaps...Er...Der blau und weiss VW auto is sehr schnell mit Sebastien Ogier....

Oh dear!! :p

[Eki]

It also comes from the name of a county, an ancient one in the South, called "Ugandi". :)

Your knowledge never ceases to amaze, John. ;)

There's a county in Estonia called Revala, which I find funny, since in Finnish slang "reva" means the private lower body regions of the female anatomy.

I guess it comes from the Swedish word "reva":


reva (n.)

Argyle gimp, crevice, rent, rift, rip, scroll gimp, slit, snag, split, tear

[EuroTroll]

Way waaaaaaaay South I guess. Was the big boss down there named Idi Amin?
And are there big scary lizards running around?
Vituuuuuun!!!!

Now what you've done there is gone too far south. ;) The names are similar I grant you, but we're still within the bounds of the Estonian Empire. :p : No big lizards here, only small ones.

[EuroTroll]

I must also compliment everyone on here who isn't from an english speaking country, many people, Juha Koo AFF NOT OldF and many, many others speak perfect english on here, I sometimes feel guilty because I cant really speak another language!

I wouldn't feel bad about that if I were you. ;) I'm sure that if the lingua franca was still French, you would speak it, and we would be having this discussion in merry French while chewing on garlic. :p :

[Tazio]

I blame Shakespeare.

Although not on equal terms with "The Bard" when considering his complete body of work, my favorite English Poet is John Donne. I'm also quite fond of the English Romantic Poets, especially Blake, Byron, and Coleridge. Wordsworth is a little too pastoral for my taste.

[janvanvurpa]

I wouldn't feel bad about that if I were you. ;) I'm sure that if the lingua franca was still French, you would speak it, and we would be having this discussion in merry French while chewing on garlic. :p :

Well that is the truth.. If I could try and be serious for just a moment or two I'd say to BDunnel that while there are a number of things going on in any dialog the simplest level is a subtly negotiated 2 way conversation... What particular 'authorial voice" we use in any given context depends a lot on the situtation, and the other person in the dialog ---or persons, and how much each speaker "invests" in how they speak...
Native speakers in their own setting are often rather sloppy and casual about their grammar, pronunciation, idiom....Like at London, or Paris or Stockholm, all get enormous flack/ridicule from the rest of their countrymen..
.But people speak the way they do for a lot of reasons---including empty (headed) phrases which may seem like bilge, but are social markers which are mainly saying "Yo! I'm a _______________, you too?" In Fortress America™ rally is a tiny little subset of car motorsport so a guy who blurts out----even inappropriately---the phrase "Left Foot braking............" knows he's found a kindred soul if somebody responds "Yeah! LFB is a must!" Other sub-branches have their words and phrases used to denote affiliation. (I don't pay any attention to other car racing, especially asphalt but maybe just shouting "late apex" or "threshold braking" are similar "mating calls"

But for many, a good, fluent, obvious command of English we see here can mean something valuable for many, and there is a drive to master it in a way a native speaker in their home setting doesn't need to...
When I moved to Sweden to pursue my motorsport dreams, I was strongly motivated to quickly learn Swedish as well as I could to better my employment prospects and to be a valuable employee once I was on a job....and after a while, being on the receiving end of a good deal of xenophobia from the dominant culture, there was a motivation to learn it so I did not have to sit without words when some Swede who be ranting about how horrible all the foreigners were..
Fortunately Swedish was easy being that it descending from an old Northern German dialect and was "one step away that way ^" while English was from the same ancient German dialect but was one and a half step that < way"..so pretty easy for a fluent English speaker>

The same internal motivation held when eventually realizing the motorsport dream and working mainly in France.. It made good business and personal sense to learn the language well---personal because i was a single guy and, well, I liked the French girls (and happily enough, a lot of them like me!)
I used to say "I speak French very effluently" ...

And the same when I found my self passing thru Western West Germany a lot, again direct concrete benefit to speaking the local language "pretty damn good"....
(sigh) and yep a lot of those German girls liked that I spoke well.

Here, and now, so much communication if not dialog, it is either "broadcasts" of utter banalities (like tweets and IM and most email) or something akin to the clashes of wooden sailing ships in Nelson's times: Broadsides soley intending to poke holes and dismast...Neither of those forms can be taken seriously..

You see this in they way virtually nobody ever will say anything like "Oh, I didn't realise that" or "No I hadn't heard of that before".
(so some adopt a fairly combined lackadaisical and high-arch parody tone, and accept that many simply won't 'get it", and that makes no difference)

So really considering the clear potential personal and vocational advantages, it's not too surprising that many have tried and do write English very well...

[BDunnell]

There's a county in Estonia called Revala, which I find funny, since in Finnish slang "reva" means the private lower body regions of the female anatomy.

I guess it comes from the Swedish word "reva":

Given the subject matter and the male-dominated nature of society at the time words were being devised, might it also be derived from the French 'rêve'?

[EuroTroll]

Given the subject matter and the male-dominated nature of society at the time words were being devised, might it also be derived from the French 'rêve'?

According to local historians, the ancient county name Revala (or Rävala) actually probably came from the Estonian word for fox, "rebane". So the area around Tallinn was Foxland. And Tallinn itself was called Reval in medieval times. So, Foxtown. :)

[Rudy Tamasz]

In my case it was school and uni back home, then a Master program at an international uni, then more then ten years of working for various American companies. Also, being from a small country helps. If you have to get out of your backyard every now and then you have to be able to explain yourself.

My foreign language ability starts and ends with English but I am know a couple words in a dozen of other languages. Once I was having a lunch with a Sri Lankan guy in a Chinese buffet in Hungary. :) My Lankan friend wanted some bottled water, but a non-English speaking Chinese expat waitress thought he wanted a glass of water. I explained the bottled water thing to her in a very broken Hungarian and my friend then asked me where I learned to speak Chinese. Things do get funny in a globalized world. :)

[BDunnell]

In my case it was school and uni back home, then a Master program at an international uni, then more then ten years of working for various American companies. Also, being from a small country helps. If you have to get out of your backyard every now and then you have to be able to explain yourself.

My foreign language ability starts and ends with English but I am know a couple words in a dozen of other languages. Once I was having a lunch with a Sri Lankan guy in a Chinese buffet in Hungary. :) My Lankan friend wanted some bottled water, but a non-English speaking Chinese expat waitress thought he wanted a glass of water. I explained the bottled water thing to her in a very broken Hungarian and my friend then asked me where I learned to speak Chinese. Things do get funny in a globalized world. :)

I ought, of course, to have cited you in my first post as another non-native speaker with an outstanding command of English. My apologies.

[wedge]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

My best holidays have been from staying in backpacker hostels. Not just the command of the English language but their sense of humour never ceases to amaze me.

[gadjo_dilo]

Dear BDunnell.
I'm sure in my case it's a confusion as I'm aware of my terrible grammar mistakes and limited english vocabulary. Ironically I know my mistakes but can't correct myself.
I studied some English in school but practice is the key of learning a foreign language. Unfortunately in our schools we learn the "literary" language which is different to the spoken one. English was a hobby and our way to oppose the regime of that time. At the same time english teachers were always young, funny and open minded.
I admit that I owe part of my "skills" to this forum because in real life I have no chance to speak to foreigners. I "landed" here accidentally, liked it and after 2 years of reading the threads I dared to become the gadjo dilo of this community. I attended an english course 2 years ago at work but it was very boring, the teacher thought we're interested in economic terms ( well, my colleagues were ) and came with different boring texts about business, taxes, etc.- just managed to improve the wooden language I've already known.
I also admit I was a big fan of..... ( I won't say whose ) so for a time I became a reader of the Sun, Daily Mirror and other infamous tabloids.

Eki said something about english tv programmes and movies being not dubbed....Whenever I watch them I think " this time I'll watch it just for the language" but my attention can't be distributed and I'm thrilled by the action. Strange, but this doesn't happen when watching shows in other languages. These days I watch some indian and south korean soaps ( and I don't mind if you think I'm stupid ) and I started to learn a few words.

I'm too shy to speak english in public. Sometimes it happen to be asked in the street about a street or instution and then my tongue become tied. Thanks God that the gesture language is international....

[Rudy Tamasz]

I ought, of course, to have cited you in my first post as another non-native speaker with an outstanding command of English. My apologies.

No problem. Thank you, sir.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I admit that I owe part of my "skills" to this forum because in real life I have no chance to speak to foreigners. I "landed" here accidentally, liked it and after 2 years of reading the threads I dared to become the gadjo dilo of this community.

gadjo_dilo, you're quite an asset to this forum and your contributions are highly valued (and here I'm poking fun at myself and the bureaucratic English that I often have to use. ;) ).

[gadjo_dilo]

Rudy, you're too nice...
Thank you.

P.S. Another fatality! I'm considered an "asset" to this forum. Whenever I call up someone from my institution I recommend myself " I'm......, from Assets" :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

My biggest problem when it comes to the english language, is people being unable to know that there's a difference between your and you're, and they're their and there. Also use of the term 'would of'. Essentially all of these people I know from university are quite talented at what they do, but using grammar correctly when its their first language is not one of them.

My question to people with english as a second language is if they get lazy with grammar when writing their native language.

[gadjo_dilo]

I found it very amusing watching American sitcoms dubbed in Polish in a hotel room in Poland. Or watching Dallas dubbed in Spanish in a motel room in California.

Nothing compares with Alain Delon speaking russian in a coprodaction called Assassination Attempt (Teheran '43).

His first reply was "Harasho" and all the cinema started laughing.

[Lousada]

My biggest problem when it comes to the english language, is people being unable to know that there's a difference between your and you're, and they're their and there. Also use of the term 'would of'. Essentially all of these people I know from university are quite talented at what they do, but using grammar correctly when its their first language is not one of them.

My question to people with english as a second language is if they get lazy with grammar when writing their native language.

The hardest part for me reading English forums is native speakers mixing words with totally different meanings. They're, their and there are not so hard to decipher in a sentence, but I also saw know - no - now mixed, which - witch, sandwich - sandwitch, way - weigh, ate - eight and many others. I don't understand how English speakers don't see that these words have totally different meanings?

[Mark]

That's because many English speakers (as I imagine is the case in other languages) are spectacularly uneducated and firstly don't know what spellings to use when and secondly don't care or think it's cool.

[Tazio]

One facet I've heard complaints about are the large number of words that have dual meanings.

[Mark]

A quick example:
I will read
I have read

It's the same verb "to read", but it's pronounced differently according to the context.

And yes, other languages have the same issue, there are several in French that I know of.

[schmenke]

...My question to people with english as a second language is if they get lazy with grammar when writing their native language.

...ahem ;) :s tareup:

[EuroTroll]

My question to people with english as a second language is if they get lazy with grammar when writing their native language.

The short answer is: no. The long answer is: hell no.

I sometimes speak with quite a bit of improvisation, but when it comes to writing, I stick to the rules.

Innit, eh? ;)

[ShiftingGears]

...ahem ;) :s tareup:

I made a statement about what my question was - the question was implicit within that. So it was a statement. Is that what you quoted me with regards to?

[schmenke]

I made a statement about what my question was - the question was implicit within that. So it was a statement. Is that what you quoted me with regards to?

I was just yanking your chain ;) . No worries :)
But, yes, your post was grammatically awkward. I normally wouldn't bother, but this is a thread about English grammar :p : .

[ShiftingGears]

I was just yanking your chain ;) . No worries :)
But, yes, your post was grammatically awkward. I normally wouldn't bother, but this is a thread about English grammar :p : .

As long as I didn't shoot myself in the foot by being grammatically incorrect it'll do me :p :

[BleAivano]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

I think it differers from country to country but if you look at the countries Sweden, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands have
the highest % of English speaking population outside Britain and its former colonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population). I think one of the reasons is that the native languages in these countries are
quite similar to English (since they are closely related as they are Germanic languages) are closely related to English (they're all Germanic languages (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/231026/Germanic-languages)) other reasons are that
in Sweden English are taught at school already from early grades.

In my case we started with English in 4th grade (at the age of 11) and for the rest of the reaming years which makes its 9 years
in total if you include Gymnasiet (high school). But i think they start even earlier nowdays. Subtitles tv-programs (which already have been mentioned)
is of course another major contributing factor.

[donKey jote]

I dared to become the gadjo dilo of this community.
ioan is the really dilo one though :p



I'm considered an "asset" to this forum.
sure beats being the forum ass :dozey:

[ioan]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

Thanks. :)
To be honest, it just happened.
Most of my friends claim that my brain still works like a kids brain when it comes to learning new languages. This is their explanation for me being fluent in 5 languages. Funnily enough I chose to become engineer. :D

[ioan]

I must also compliment everyone on here who isn't from an english speaking country, many people, Juha Koo AFF NOT OldF and many, many others speak perfect english on here, I sometimes feel guilty because I cant really speak another language!

Or a bit of German parhaps...Er...Der blau und weiss VW auto is sehr schnell mit Sebastien Ogier....

Oh dear!! :p

Well, I usually try not to speak while posting in here! ;)

[tfp]

The short answer is: no. The long answer is: hell no.

I sometimes speak with quite a bit of improvisation, but when it comes to writing, I stick to the rules.

Innit, eh? ;)

Some know the english language so well they even know slang!


Well, I usually try not to speak while posting in here! ;)

:D :cool:
If anyone wants to learn more, here geordie dictionary (http://newcastleupontyne.tripod.com/geordie.html)

Baad is a good one. "I was baad with the drink this morning" :D

[Rudy Tamasz]

If anyone wants to learn more, here geordie dictionary (http://newcastleupontyne.tripod.com/geordie.html)Baad is a good one. "I was baad with the drink this morning" :D

That's pretty cool. Sounds a bit like Lullans.

I've always dreamt of learning a special type of English and then scaring people around me with some provincial British, or Scottish, or Irish, or Southern U.S. accent and idioms on top of my thick foreign accent. It hasn't happened so far, though. The only English speaking area where I stayed for a long time was Illinois and they don't have much of a special accent there.

[EuroTroll]

I've always dreamt of learning a special type of English...

Cockney rhyming slang is what we all should learn. :D ;)

qr2XOhgSVoY

[gadjo_dilo]

Thanks. :)
To be honest, it just happened.
Most of my friends claim that my brain still works like a kids brain when it comes to learning new languages. This is their explanation for me being fluent in 5 languages. Funnily enough I chose to become engineer. :D

Do you speak german? If you do, you'll grow into my eyes.

My father was fluent in 7 languages. Funnily enough he chose to become a driver.

[Mark]

That's the things about learning languages really, you speak to some one and they are fluent in 8 languages, are they working for the UN? No, they are a minimum wage waiter in a restaurant...

[gadjo_dilo]

My biggest problem when it comes to the english language, is people being unable to know that there's a difference between your and you're, and they're their and there. Also use of the term 'would of'. Essentially all of these people I know from university are quite talented at what they do, but using grammar correctly when its their first language is not one of them.

My question to people with english as a second language is if they get lazy with grammar when writing their native language.

Making spelling/grammar mistakes in my native language ( romanian ) would be the biggest shame for me. My job requires a good knowledge of the language as most of my papers are addressed to a minister and are signed by another minister. ( I admit that once I typed „sexretar de stat” instead of „secretar de stat” and nobody saw the mistake, the secretary of state even signed it :laugh: ). I reckon our grammar is very difficult but if you were a bit attentive in school you can manage. It happens sometimes to don’t be sure about a grammar/spelling rule, then I ask a colleague or look up in a dictionary.

My ex boss was a calamity from this point of view. He always spelled „a-ti” instead of „ati” ( and viceversa ) , „va” instead of „v-a” ( and viceversa ) etc. He was aware of his lack of romanian knowledge and never typed a document. He used to write it on paper and then he would give us to type with the same excuse: I was in a hurry, didn’t have time to check, you do the concordance. We had a good laugh with his papers. The best thing about him is that our service was called „regii autonome” ( a name for state companies that aren’t meant to be privatised ). Although we dealt with this term every day he wasn’t able to spell it properly and was always writing „regi autonome” ( „regi” means „kings” ). More than that he wrote „regi” on all our files and books.

I love my native language, it doesn’t sound too musical but has a very „rich” vocabulary with many influences from the neighbourhood and loads of regional words. What is great about it is its unity, the fact we all understand each other no matter the part of the country where we’re living in.

[ioan]

Do you speak german? If you do, you'll grow into my eyes.

My father was fluent in 7 languages. Funnily enough he chose to become a driver.

Yep, German is one of them. After living close to 10 years in France I moved to Austria since a few years. :)

[ioan]

That's the things about learning languages really, you speak to some one and they are fluent in 8 languages, are they working for the UN? No, they are a minimum wage waiter in a restaurant...

You know what's funny? When you meet the guys working for the UN and they are barely fluent in their own language.
I've known a guy who was translating at UN meetings, he only spoke fluently Swedish and English, we was trying to learn some Eastern European languages with little success.

[ioan]

Making spelling/grammar mistakes in my native language ( romanian ) would be the biggest shame for me. My job requires a good knowledge of the language as most of my papers are addressed to a minister and are signed by another minister. ( I admit that once I typed „sexretar de stat” instead of „secretar de stat” and nobody saw the mistake, the secretary of state even signed it :laugh: ).

Don't worry, given the literacy level of the Romanian politicians (including ministers and other well paid bureaucrats) they wouldn't know when you make grammar mistakes. Sadly enough.

[donKey jote]

I know the languages have common roots, but if how quickly Romanians learn Spanish is anything to go by, you're definitely a land of linguistic geniuses :up:

[D-Type]

Making spelling/grammar mistakes in ~
I suppose it's the same in any language - some people can spell correctly and some can't, some people have an intuitive feel for grammar and some don't, some can do mental arithmetic and some can't.

At school I studied Latin and French. The main benefit is that the stricter grammar that has given me a clearer understanding of the few grammar rules we have left in English. I can't speak either language but as the root words are similar I can sometimes get the gist of other [written] Latin languages.

But, Like BDunnell I have to say that I really admire the way that all you foreigners can communicate so well in English.

[ioan]

I know the languages have common roots, but if how quickly Romanians learn Spanish is anything to go by, you're definitely a land of linguistic geniuses :up:

Learning Italian was even easier and faster. ;)
And yes it's all about the common roots, it makes everything so much easier.

PS: The way some Romanians, quite many of them, speak and write in Romanian doesn't give us any rights to the linguistic geniuses title! :)

[donKey jote]

so you speak Italian effluently too ? ;) :p :andrea:

[Mark]

Yes I suppose that if you are fluent in say Italian you can learn French and Spanish quite easily. But all Italians are bad at English ;)

[pino]

...But all Italians are bad at English ;)

Sad but true, my French, Spanish and especially Danish are a lot better than my Sicilian-English :p

[EuroTroll]

Do Italians generally speak worse English than the French or the Spanish? I wouldn't have thought so...

[pino]

According to Mark yes :(

[A.F.F.]

Scottish write understandable english than they speak ;)

[pino]

Scottish write understandable english than they speak ;)

People from Newcastle area too :p

[Eki]

so you speak Italian effluently too ? ;) :p :andrea:
Effeminately

[fandango]

Do Italians generally speak worse English than the French or the Spanish? I wouldn't have thought so...

I'm an English teacher, and I've taught lots of different nationalities. The French are probably the worst of the three, because they rarely lose their accent, which really affects their pronunciation. On the other hand, Spanish people have a problem with the differences that occur between how a word is pronounced in English and its spelling, mostly because in Spanish things are a lot more consistent, so they're not used to paying attention to these differences. I've even had Spanish people try to correct me on how to say my own name!

In the end, though, I'd agree with what someone earlier said, that the biggest problem is dubbing TV shows. Not doing that would change things in a generation.

[ioan]

so you speak Italian effluently too ? ;) :p :andrea:

Nope. I understand it (both spoken and written Italian) perfectly, however due to lack of practicing I am having troubles finding the right words, and I never tried to write in Italian.

[ioan]

Do Italians generally speak worse English than the French or the Spanish? I wouldn't have thought so...

I've met French people (not many) who were speaking perfect English, with very pleasant UK accent.
Also met a couple Italians who do come close to very good. However I've never met anyone from Spain who speaks very good English (nor French), their accent is way to strong.

Then again as I mostly lived in France it is possible that the image is slightly distorted and there are also Italians and Spaniards who speak perfect English.

[EuroTroll]

Nope. I understand it (both spoken and written Italian) perfectly, however due to lack of practicing I am having troubles finding the right words, and I never tried to write in Italian.

So in fact, you do speak it effluently? :p :

[donKey jote]

.
donkey :andrea:

[ioan]

So in fact, you do speak it effluently? :p :

Don't push it!

[EuroTroll]

Don't push it!

Just a little joke there, ioan. ;)

[ioan]

Just a little joke there, ioan. ;)

I know, no worries! :)

[gadjo_dilo]

I know the languages have common roots, but if how quickly Romanians learn Spanish is anything to go by, you're definitely a land of linguistic geniuses :up:

That's true and I'm the exception to confirm the rule. All I know in spanish is "estoy embarazada" ( not sure about the spelling ), a reminiscense of hundreds of mexican telenovelas watched during taking lunch with my mother.


Don't worry, given the literacy level of the Romanian politicians (including ministers and other well paid bureaucrats) they wouldn't know when you make grammar mistakes. Sadly enough.

Now don't imagine that a dignitary would ever be bothered to read my elucubrations. They're destinated to other "pitifelnici" like me but need to take an official form. :laugh:



I have another curiosity. How come that most of romanians – even gypsies - who live in Italy manage to speak italian quite well while italians living here for years assasinate our sweet speak. At the end of the day the rules of pronounciation are the same.

Curiosity no.2: why is so hard for americans and englishmen to pronounce correctly the names of foreigners? My first name ( the „stage name”, not the official ) consists of only four letters and everybody ties their tongue pronouncing it.....

[BDunnell]

Curiosity no.2: why is so hard for americans and englishmen to pronounce correctly the names of foreigners? My first name ( the „stage name”, not the official ) consists of only four letters and everybody ties their tongue pronouncing it.....

Because, generally, they can't be bothered. What I find especially annoying are people who hear someone's name being said correctly — even by the person themselves, and even if the person is of the same nationality — and then go on mispronouncing it. It's ignorant, lazy and rude.

[Mark]

Shilpa Shetty ? :p

[Gregor-y]

There are a lot of towns in the midwest US that were founded in the early and mid 19th century named for all sorts of exotic locations and revolutionary heroes. Since most communication was written and there was so much isolation from other languages the local dialect was applied to towns like Bolivar, Pennsylvania, Chili, Indiana, Cairo, Illinois and Buena Vista Colorado and can still be found today.

That said it's always been pretty grating to hear English announcers for the IRC pronounce Jan Kopecky's name, but that's only because all I learned in half a semester of Czech was a modicum of pronunciation. Still someone should have set them straight right away.

And then of course our use of the word 'Czech' was part of what AJP Taylor called an irritating habit of the English spelling any Slavic word according to Polish rules. No one else is so generous with the Z.

[ioan]

I have another curiosity. How come that most of romanians – even gypsies - who live in Italy manage to speak italian quite well while italians living here for years assasinate our sweet speak. At the end of the day the rules of pronounciation are the same.

Let's not forget that Romanian language has been, during it's development, seriously influenced by a number of other languages.



Curiosity no.2: why is so hard for americans and englishmen to pronounce correctly the names of foreigners? My first name ( the „stage name”, not the official ) consists of only four letters and everybody ties their tongue pronouncing it.....

Don't get me started on this one. The funniest when some reply to my email calling me Loan (one reason why I use a 'i' when I join a forum), shows a lack or respect and a lack of intelligence on top of it. Although this doesn't happen only to English speakers.

[Mark]

loan Ioan, not dissimilar specially with a different font.

[ioan]

loan Ioan, not dissimilar specially with a different font.

Then again who writes their name in lower case in a company email?! No one.

[BDunnell]

Then again who writes their name in lower case in a company email?! No one.

What you mean is 'no-one with a proper command of language'.

[ioan]

Right.

[Mark]

Now viewing Ioan and loan on my phone they are identical.

[donKey jote]

that must be a fine sight. :eek: Where did you get the pics from? :crazy: :andrea:

[schmenke]

ioan^2

[D-Type]

Imagine how I got on when working for a Japanese company. Being a formal people, the Japanese like to use surnames and they had, shall we say, fun with my surname. Just picture the response to an introduction: "Pleased to meeet you, Mr Rollo" - "Just call be Duncan" was my usual response and I then became "Mr Duncan". At which point I said to myself "Oh borroks!" and politely answered "Yes"

[gadjo_dilo]

Ioane, never thought about a confusion between I and l. Thought the problem was the accent. Like pronouncing it like io an. Or like Johann.

My problem is the second letter of my name - O. They pronounce it ou or au although I recommend myself correctly and I really have an easy name.

[schmenke]

Imagine how I got on when working for a Japanese company. Being a formal people, the Japanese like to use surnames and they had, shall we say, fun with my surname. Just picture the response to an introduction: "Pleased to meeet you, Mr Rollo" - "Just call be Duncan" was my usual response and I then became "Mr Duncan". ...

I had a similar experience working in South Korea. My surname can be difficult to pronounce, and downright cumbersome for an Asian.
I would tell my Korean colleagues to simply address me by my first name, so I became known as “Mr. Peter” :mark: .

[janneppi]

Imagine how I got on when working for a Japanese company. Being a formal people, the Japanese like to use surnames and they had, shall we say, fun with my surname. Just picture the response to an introduction: "Pleased to meeet you, Mr Rollo" - "Just call be Duncan" was my usual response and I then became "Mr Duncan". At which point I said to myself "Oh borroks!" and politely answered "Yes"
In most email's I get from Japanese clients, i'm Janne san. Then replying to them I usually have to do an image search with their name to see what gender they are. ;)

[Garry Walker]

Despite the claims of dunnell that I am a native english speaker, I am not and studied it in school since 2nd grade, if I remember correctly. Not that difficult of a language and I picked it up quite quickly, but lately I sense that I don't speak it as well as I used to, because I just don't get to speak it much these days. Some years ago I got to speak quite a bit of english with some clients and people thought I was a native english speaker, but these days this forum I probably the only place where I speak/write in english.

[pino]

Garry is Italian your native language? :p :

[Garry Walker]

Garry is Italian your native language? :p :

Unfortunately not, but it is one of those language I'd quite like to speak.

[pino]

Unfortunately not, but it is one of those language I'd quite like to speak.

May I ask you which is your native language then ;)

[donKey jote]

Ancient Norwegian? :p

[pino]

Så kan vi tale denne sprog sammen ;)

[donKey jote]

you both want to sprog together ? :eek: :p :andrea:

[ioan]

Unfortunately not, but it is one of those language I'd quite like to speak.

So you're French!

[BDunnell]

May I ask you which is your native language then ;)

If past experience is anything to go by, no you may not.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

If past experience is anything to go by, no you may not.

It's one of those forum mysteries.

Where did the Oily Oaf go?
Is anthonyvop a real person or Eki in disguise?
Is Mark in Oshawa actually in Oshawa?

Nobody will ever know!

[Rudy Tamasz]

In most email's I get from Japanese clients, i'm Janne san. Then replying to them I usually have to do an image search with their name to see what gender they are. ;)

Shouldn't it be Janne sun?

[fandango]

The things I love are the translations that are correct but just not quite right. Yesterday I was out for a run along the beach, and there was a bar (chiringuito) which had "Coctel de la semana" (Cocktail of the week) translated as "Weekly Cocktail". "Barman, could I have another?" "Sorry sir, that's your ration for the week..."

And a few years ago a Chinese student saw me one morning and said "Ah, you got your haircut cut! Very nice!" It's logical, makes sense but....

[BDunnell]

The things I love are the translations that are correct but just not quite right. Yesterday I was out for a run along the beach, and there was a bar (chiringuito) which had "Coctel de la semana" (Cocktail of the week) translated as "Weekly Cocktail". "Barman, could I have another?" "Sorry sir, that's your ration for the week..."

And a few years ago a Chinese student saw me one morning and said "Ah, you got your haircut cut! Very nice!" It's logical, makes sense but....

A few years ago I visited Libya. The slogan of the hotel in which I stayed was 'Feel yourself in your home'.

[schmenke]

:D

China is famous for this (google "chinglish").

I remember years ago purchasing the dvd film "A Bridge Too Far" at one of the markets in Shanghai. It's not so much the movie that I wanted (I'd seen it dozens of times), but the packaging, which looked thoroughly authentic except for the title which read "A Bride Too Far".

[D-Type]

"I bid you welcome from the heart of my bottom"

"You think I know damn nothing - in fact I know damn all"

[schmenke]

Anyone who’s been to China know that the locals, when working with foreigners, like to give themselves “western” names. Most are chosen because they simply like the sound, but some, often chosen by girls, are downright baffling.
Some of the more interesting ones I’ve come across:
Petal
Blue Mary
Scallion
Virgin (I had to confirm that she didn’t mean Virginia :uhoh: )

When working in Shanghai a few years ago, my company’s foreign assignment conditions allowed for a car and driver. My assigned driver had chosen “Handsome” as his western name :mark: .
He’d ring me, with his number displayed on my mobile, and I’d answer “Hello Handsome” much to the amusement of those around me :rolleyes:

[J4MIE]

I wish I had the enthusiasm to keep going and learn more of a language, I know various bits and pieces and a few words here and there, but never quite get around to doing more than that :( It is made far easier by others use of great English which luckily I know quite a bit of.

So I blame everyone else :cool:

[janvanvurpa]

Anyone who’s been to China know that the locals, when working with foreigners, like to give themselves “western” names. Most are chosen because they simply like the sound, but some, often chosen by girls, are downright baffling.
Some of the more interesting ones I’ve come across:
Petal
Blue Mary
Scallion
Virgin (I had to confirm that she didn’t mean Virginia :uhoh: )

When working in Shanghai a few years ago, my company’s foreign assignment conditions allowed for a car and driver. My assigned driver had chosen “Handsome” as his western name :mark: .
He’d ring me, with his number displayed on my mobile, and I’d answer “Hello Handsome” much to the amusement of those around me :rolleyes:

The names are usually just assigned by their teachers when they begin English lessons in school.....my mother-in-law was a elementary school teacher, and I was a guest at her retirement and asked to drop in to an English class. Amazing enthusiasm and eagerness....My wife "Chris", her sister "Sylvia and brother "Joseph" have so many friends with interesting names including a female friend also named "Handsome". Of course names are given out also, I'm Zhang Wei Han there..

Names are extremely nuanced and layer in China and you're routinely goping to have a number of names and titles depending on the relationship with the speaker....brothers and sisters have their own names between them, and different than colleagues or parents...and then there are numbers... Auntie 3 and Auntie 4 have visited here for extended times and that's their "name" Sei yi...
Who can forget the beautiful Rosamond Kwan in Jet Li's "Once Upon a Time in China" as "Auntie 13"... I've had a great cup of tea at a tea room called "Auntie 13's Tea room".

[jens]

While I may sometimes act as the unwanted grammar police on here, one thing that never ceases to impress me is the standard of English displayed by some non-native speakers of the language. I mean, the likes of studi... sorry, wiruwiru, jens and Eki demonstrate virtually perfect idiomatic English, and ioan, gadjo_dilo and many others aren't far behind — often, ahead of those who actually speak and write in English as their mother tongue. So, how did those of you with these skills come to pick them up? While I studied German at university and lived in Germany until last week, my command of that language is dreadful in comparison.

Thank you, sir! :) Only just now happened to read this thread and it felt tempting to reply!

I remember at school it wasn't coming that easily to me - and I was sort of a slow learner in foreign languages. But like wiruwiru, I was also studying in a specialized English class. I guess in the end it was helpful in this respect!

Generally I like to put a fair amount of emphasis in ortography and grammar while writing, regardless of language. It is even a bit of a habit or lifestyle. :) I guess these are differences in personalities as on the other hand I can easily be stunned at just how good people can be in some other areas, which I am completely unable to match.

To take a bit of a wider view on the issue, I also think the factor of being a "small nation" plays a role. In order to communicate with the outside world, Estonians absolutely have to learn foreign languages. Even if they may not have a brilliant command or grammar of English, I guess if you ever visited Estonia, you would be understood by people. :)

[donKey jote]

I though my cover was blown the other day when I was told my English was better than that of our UK staff...
Well chuffed I was, until I ordered a Big Mac meal and didn't understand a word of what the nice Birmingham lass said :dozey: