Vettel showing his real personality.

[Garry Walker]

I have always thought that his personality that he tries to show off his completely fake and have always considered him a totally fake person, but this proves it even more.

'Siempre hay algún trasto dando vueltas' | Motor | elmundo.es (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2012/03/25/motor/1332677480.html)

"There is always some piece of junk lapping the track"

Golden boy's habit of cutting in front of another driver (like he stupidly did against Webber at Turkey 2 years ago) costing him again.

[donKey jote]

you read spanish?

[F1boat]

He meant the car, you know. The HRT is very slow.

[tfp]

Ooooh dear someone is in a strop!

[donKey jote]

I've never seen him in such a strop as on the post-race interview on RTL :laugh: :laugh: :L:
"Ein paar Gurken auf der Strecke", including yourself ! :D

[Koz]

I have always thought that his personality that he tries to show off his completely fake and have always considered him a totally fake person,
I agree. The personality that we see is totally fake. I, from the bottom of my heart, believe he is a psychopath.

but this proves it even more.

'Siempre hay algún trasto dando vueltas' | Motor | elmundo.es (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2012/03/25/motor/1332677480.html)

"There is always some piece of junk lapping the track"

Golden boy's habit of cutting in front of another driver (like he stupidly did against Webber at Turkey 2 years ago) costing him again.

I don't think so. This isn't the first time that the loser in question has cause problems. Remember India last year?
The blocking in qualifying? How many drivers did he block during this race?
He should have been black flagged for his incompetence.

[The Black Knight]

I have always thought that his personality that he tries to show off his completely fake and have always considered him a totally fake person, but this proves it even more.

'Siempre hay algún trasto dando vueltas' | Motor | elmundo.es (http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2012/03/25/motor/1332677480.html)

"There is always some piece of junk lapping the track"

Golden boy's habit of cutting in front of another driver (like he stupidly did against Webber at Turkey 2 years ago) costing him again.

I second that. He called him a cucumber in another interview. Like Turkey he is blaming someone else for his own wrongdoing. Narain, like Webber in Turkey 2010, did nothing wrong. It was Vettel's fault for cutting across the HRT too early. But you know it's not going his way this year, Webber is making him look more ordinary again and he can't streak away at ye front as easy so he's feeling the pressure a little I reckon.

[wedge]

LOL!

Bieber isn't quite the perfect GP driver after all!

Throws his toys out of the pram and blames his error on someone else!

[BDunnell]

I second that. He called him a cucumber in another interview. Like Turkey he is blaming someone else for his own wrongdoing. Narain, like Webber in Turkey 2010, did nothing wrong. It was Vettel's fault for cutting across the HRT too early. But you know it's not going his way this year, Webber is making him look more ordinary again and he can't streak away at ye front as easy so he's feeling the pressure a little I reckon.

Which, surely, renders his upset to a degree understandable, even if we may find it hard to put ourselves in that position. Any irritation he may feel at Karthikeyan, though, is definitely misplaced. I see Karthikeyan has apologised to both Button (who took the blame for his collision himself) and Vettel for his part in both their incidents, which I think is a shame, for he has nothing to apologise for.

[wedge]

Hamilton pulled a similar arrogant move on Kobayashi in Spa last year. Don't remember any name calling afterwards.

[The Black Knight]

Hamilton pulled a similar arrogant move on Kobayashi in Spa last year. Don't remember any name calling afterwards.

Hamilton had the decency to hold his hand up and admit it was his fault afterwards.

[BDunnell]

Hamilton had the decency to hold his hand up and admit it was his fault afterwards.

Just as did Button today. One might say that, due in part to the indulgence of Helmut Marko, Vettel maybe isn't told enough that he is in the wrong. Witness Marko's suggestion after Turkey two years ago that Webber was to blame for that incident — a patently ridiculous view.

[The Black Knight]

Just as did Button today. One might say that, due in part to the indulgence of Helmut Marko, Vettel maybe isn't told enough that he is in the wrong. Witness Marko's suggestion after Turkey two years ago that Webber was to blame for that incident — a patently ridiculous view.

Exactly. You got to respect a driver that holds his hands up and admits fault. Vettel needs to learn to do this.

[donKey jote]

He called him a cucumber in another interview.
Actually the original was probably in German. Gurke/cucumber in this context is correctly translated as trasto (junk) in Spanish.

[BDunnell]

Watching the post-race interviews on the BBC, I was left for the first time with the impression of enormous petulance on Vettel's part. The incident was clearly his fault and — as easy as it may be for us to say so — he really ought just to get over it. By contrast, Schumacher's comments were genuinely a model of good-naturedness! Something to learn there, maybe.

[RS]

Watching the post-race interviews on the BBC, I was left for the first time with the impression of enormous petulance on Vettel's part. The incident was clearly his fault and — as easy as it may be for us to say so — he really ought just to get over it. By contrast, Schumacher's comments were genuinely a model of good-naturedness! Something to learn there, maybe.

I was coming on here to make almost exactly the same post as above having seen the BBC interview, and he clearly did mean Narain and not the car.

I did wonder how Vettel would cope when he didn't have the best car and his sulkiness seems even worse than Lewis'.

... Not only the interview but the hand gestures on track. We often see drivers shaking an angry fist but to repeatedly give another driver the finger, especially when an incident was actually your fault, I wonder whether he should be given a grid penalty for that if such a passage can be found in the rules to facilitate that.

Edit: No, I've just read on Autosport.com that apparantly the stewards saw fit to penalise Karthikeyan for the Vettel incident!

[steveaki13]

Watching the post-race interviews on the BBC, I was left for the first time with the impression of enormous petulance on Vettel's part. The incident was clearly his fault and — as easy as it may be for us to say so — he really ought just to get over it. By contrast, Schumacher's comments were genuinely a model of good-naturedness! Something to learn there, maybe.


I was coming on here to make almost exactly the same post as above having seen the BBC interview, and he clearly did mean Narain and not the car.

I did wonder how Vettel would cope when he didn't have the best car and his sulkiness seems even worse than Lewis'.

... Not only the interview but the hand gestures on track. We often see drivers shaking an angry fist but to repeatedly give another driver the finger, especially when an incident was actually your fault, I wonder whether he should be given a grid penalty for that if such a passage can be found in the rules to facilitate that.

As you say it appears he needs to take a second and get a grip. He is a two time world champion, he has had a slow start to 2012 but its only 2 races old, so just take a deep breath acknowledge your mistake, apologise to Narain and work on getting yourself and the car back to the front.

[BDunnell]

Edit: No, I've just read on Autosport.com that apparantly the stewards saw fit to penalise Karthikeyan for the Vettel incident!

Indeed. On what grounds? Karthikeyan has made some comments about having to move right in order to stay off the wet kerb. Seeing it again, I still can't see how it was anyone other than Vettel's fault. Are the stewards now taking decisions based on how many times a driver gives the finger?

[steveaki13]

Indeed. On what grounds? Karthikeyan has made some comments about having to move right in order to stay off the wet kerb. Seeing it again, I still can't see how it was anyone other than Vettel's fault. Are the stewards now taking decisions based on how many times a driver gives the finger?


Thats not right, it was at worst a racing/on track incident and with the only real fault on Sebs plate. Is this just cause the stewards listen more to the top teams than the backmarker. Doesn't seem to work when a Mclaren runs into the HRT though. (Not that either should have been pens)

[BDunnell]

Thats not right, it was at worst a racing/on track incident and with the only real fault on Sebs plate. Is this just cause the stewards listen more to the top teams than the backmarker. Doesn't seem to work when a Mclaren runs into the HRT though. (Not that either should have been pens)

Well, Button quite rightly admitted that he was at fault, not, I'm sure, that this will have influenced the stewards. It's a shame for Karthikeyan to be caught up in two such high-profile comings-together, as he does seem to be one of the more gentlemanly personalities on the grid.

[markabilly]

Indeed. On what grounds? Karthikeyan has made some comments about having to move right in order to stay off the wet kerb. Seeing it again, I still can't see how it was anyone other than Vettel's fault. Are the stewards now taking decisions based on how many times a driver gives the finger?

Well, that would be a consistent and logical basis, compared to their other past decisions..................... :up:

[i_max2k2]

I think we are seeing a repeat of Hungry, when it was Vettels fault and his gestures, Schumi dint say much against Grosjean even when he actually is blamming Schumi, time for Vettel to learn something. Unfortunate for Karthikeyan to be under the gun for something as stupid, shouldn't the stewards atleast see the replays or something, this certainly suggest that they are really just listening blindly to a 2 time world champion.

[Robinho]

Looked vettels fault all day long and he came across like a real cock in the interview

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk

[harbourgirl]

He's a skilled driver,
but his arrogance and lack of sentiment for his team isn't something I hold highly.
I remember there were a few incidents (particularly last year) that made him seem like a 'do it for my benefit and not for the team' sort of guy.

[Tazio]

I don't watch F1 to analyze/judge driver’s personalities. I'm only interested in the competition!

[fandango]

I think Vettel is in general a pleasant and agreeable person, so we can afford to cut him a bit of slack when he has a reaction to things not going his way. Perhaps he'll look at the replays himself and change his tune in future.

The hand gestures are a little immature, but all they do is serve to make him look silly: Even if it had been Karthikeyan's fault 100%, Vettel only makes himself look bad with comments like that, so it's not really necessary to call him a psychopath or say he's really a horrible person underneath it all.

[odykas]

Sebastian Vettel blames 'cucumber' Karthikeyan for puncture | Malaysian Grand Prix | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motorsport/story/74313.html)



Sebastian Vettel believes Narain Karthikeyan was responsible for the collision that brought an end to his chances of scoring points at the Malaysian Grand Prix and has called him a "cucumber"


Talking to German television, he added: "As in real life, there are a few cucumbers on the road."
Cucumber? :laugh:

[RS]

The hand gestures are a little immature, but all they do is serve to make him look silly:

True. But if he was a footballer I guess he would at least be yellow carded for that? ...and I don't generally think of football as a respectable sport.

[BDunnell]

I don't watch F1 to analyze/judge driver’s personalities. I'm only interested in the competition!

Generally my view too, but a driver's personality undoubtedly plays a part in their performance on track, and thus influences the competition.

[gm99]

Sebastian Vettel blames 'cucumber' Karthikeyan for puncture | Malaysian Grand Prix | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motorsport/story/74313.html)

Cucumber? :laugh:

In colloquial German, cucumber ("Gurke") means a slow-moving car (the type usually driven by octogenarians wearing a hat at 30 kph in a 50 kph zone).

[Tazio]

Generally my view too, but a driver's personality undoubtedly plays a part in their performance on track, and thus influences the competition. You make a very good point I can't argue this. Through my own experience of playing hardball until I was 44, I learned that keeping an even keel is very beneficial. I played off every great accomplishment as something I was expected to do. I believe now as I believe then, that if (in baseball) you do something fantastic just shrug it off it is already in the past. But on a rare occasion when I screwed up I never hung my head or did anything demonstratively. I would forget it post haste, because if you jump up and down when you succeeded, you are compelled to hang your head if things don’t go well. It was kind of like the Kimi mentality, when the game is on have the same expression when you star as when you commit an error. It works wonders for your positive thinking.

[Tazio]

[...]

[Knock-on]

When he's under pressure he makes mistakes and blames everyone else. Becoming standard behaviour for Seb. For the last 2 years he's had a car that was so fast that he can just drive away from the field but now the Bull is on par with the McLaren and possibly the Ferrari as well by Sundays performance, then he will show the Glass Jaw more and more this year.

[wedge]

I think Vettel is in general a pleasant and agreeable person, so we can afford to cut him a bit of slack when he has a reaction to things not going his way. Perhaps he'll look at the replays himself and change his tune in future.

The hand gestures are a little immature, but all they do is serve to make him look silly: Even if it had been Karthikeyan's fault 100%, Vettel only makes himself look bad with comments like that, so it's not really necessary to call him a psychopath or say he's really a horrible person underneath it all.

He's been painted as F1's Mr Nice Guy - Brundle once or twice commented he puts all other F1 drivers to shame with his manners and pleasantness.

It's about time we saw the other side to Vettel.


Generally my view too, but a driver's personality undoubtedly plays a part in their performance on track, and thus influences the competition.

:up:

2nd and a non-points finish. Not a pretty start to the year.

The guy is under pressure. It's how you respond to pressure especially when you have a car that is not quite the cream of the crop.

[jens]

It is a bit strange that Vettel is considered to be under pressure or he feels himself like that. Because he has two WDC's already in the bag, so even if he happens to have one bad year, it's not a big drama in the grand scheme of things. He has already achieved so much that even if he adds nothing to that, it will still be among major statistics. For instance Alonso has been without a WDC already for a long time after his two successive titles, but the Spaniard is still keeping his head high. Perhaps Vettel will learn it that he can't be winning all the time and shall be enjoying simply competing, regardless of how favourable the outcome is.

[The Black Knight]

I'm somewhat stumped by this, but the FIA have decided to give Karthikeyan a post race penalty for the Vettel incident. A bit ridiculous really considering Vettel clearly cut across him too early. I can't see the sense in this ruling at all except maybe giving Vettel a free ticket to do something equally as ridiculous again.

Narain Karthikeyan penalised for Sebastian Vettel collision | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/74343.html)

[tfp]

I'm somewhat stumped by this, but the FIA have decided to give Karthikeyan a post race penalty for the Vettel incident. A bit ridiculous really considering Vettel clearly cut across him too early. I can't see the sense in this ruling at all except now maybe giving Vettel a free ticket to do something equally as ridiculous again.

Narain Karthikeyan penalised for Sebastian Vettel collision | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/74343.html)

Whaaat? How did the FIA come to that conclusion??

[tfp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeeEP6ZwCVU

Forgive me if this has been posted earlier....Karthikayen looks like hes trying to explain his side of the story, and Vettel and Horner come across as being ignorant. Maybe Vettel should have a race for HRT, maybe it isnt as easy to "get out of the way" as Horner or Vettel thinks!

[Rollo]

Have we established yet that Vettel is a scoundrel competing in a sport of scoundrels?

Generally only the sharpest *******s ever get anywhere in Formula One; granted there have been some exceptions but if you look at the most successful people in the sport (Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Sir Frank, Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis, Flavio (?)) they've all had the sorts of personalities where if it meant betraying your own grandma to win a GP, they probably might.

The age of gentlemen ended probably in about 1982.

[i_max2k2]

Vettel unhappy with Karthikeyan - BBC Formula1 2012 - Round 02: Malaysian GP - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeeEP6ZwCVU)

Forgive me if this has been posted earlier....Karthikayen looks like hes trying to explain his side of the story, and Vettel and Horner come across as being ignorant. Maybe Vettel should have a race for HRT, maybe it isnt as easy to "get out of the way" as Horner or Vettel thinks!


Very well put!

[Ranger]

Have we established yet that Vettel is a scoundrel competing in a sport of scoundrels?

Generally only the sharpest *******s ever get anywhere in Formula One; granted there have been some exceptions but if you look at the most successful people in the sport (Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Sir Frank, Ross Brawn, Ron Dennis, Flavio (?)) they've all had the sorts of personalities where if it meant betraying your own grandma to win a GP, they probably might.

The age of gentlemen ended probably in about 1982.

'Age of gentlemen'?

They probably used that term to describe the motor racing of yesteryear back in the 1950's as well.

Some of the alleged tactics from Nino Farina, Jack Brabham, et al. make you realise that drivers from throughout history always did what it took to win.

[ioan]

Driver is unhappy with race incident and forum goes all wild over it.What's next? Huge uproar over cat being caught harassing a mouse ?

[Shifter]

If what Karthikeyan said in interview was what he said in the stewards' box he may have shot himself in the foot, figuratively. He might not have gotten a penalty if he stated flat-out that Vettel chopped him, which he did do. Vettel could've passed Narain without incident quite easily but was too quick to get back into the slipstream...Vettel ALSO 'has mirrors on his car he should've used'...if he had, he might have noticed that he wasn't clear of the HRT.

[Tumbo]

Driver is unhappy with race incident and forum goes all wild over it.What's next? Huge uproar over cat being caught harassing a mouse ?

Don't worry your little head when Hamilton chucks a sook and runs into someone again then the forum will defend the driver to the death ;) yin and yang will be in balance and all will be good in the world

[Knock-on]

Well, Lewis was silly to refer to the backmarkers as "monkeys" and has had that thrown at him a few times. Seb calling the slower drivers "idiots" was pretty stupid but I think the "Guerk" comment will stick like **** to him every time he's unfortunate to find himself languishing at the back :D

[wedge]

Well, Lewis was silly to refer to the backmarkers as "monkeys" and has had that thrown at him a few times. Seb calling the slower drivers "idiots" was pretty stupid but I think the "Guerk" comment will stick like **** to him every time he's unfortunate to find himself languishing at the back :D

The problem with quotes is that it hides context.

The difference was that in the former was - if you saw the original interview - a tongue in cheek comment because he was chirpy and had a grin on his face; whereas the latter Vettel was clearly not satisfied with the outcome of his race.

[ArrowsFA1]

I have always thought that his personality that he tries to show off his completely fake and have always considered him a totally fake person...
I disagree with the idea that Vettel is "completely fake", however it was always going to be interesting to see how he would respond to not beng the dominant force in F1.

[EuroTroll]

It is a bit strange that Vettel is considered to be under pressure or he feels himself like that. Because he has two WDC's already in the bag, so even if he happens to have one bad year, it's not a big drama in the grand scheme of things. He has already achieved so much that even if he adds nothing to that, it will still be among major statistics. For instance Alonso has been without a WDC already for a long time after his two successive titles, but the Spaniard is still keeping his head high. Perhaps Vettel will learn it that he can't be winning all the time and shall be enjoying simply competing, regardless of how favourable the outcome is.

I think that's exactly right, and the problem now might indeed be unnecessary and unwarranted pressure. He might be feeling, based on his F1 career so far, that he should win every race. It doesn't quite work that way though, and I'm sure he'll catch on to that and mellow soon enough.

And yes, he's already a legend. Double world champion at 24 years old is very special indeed.

Added to that, I've always found him a likeable fellow. He has a sense of humour and a keen mind, I think. His comments after Malaysia were a bit stupid, but who among us has never made stupid comments. ;)

He's young and he'll learn.

[fandango]

He's been painted as F1's Mr Nice Guy - Brundle once or twice commented he puts all other F1 drivers to shame with his manners and pleasantness.

It's about time we saw the other side to Vettel.

Do you know something about him that the rest of us don't? Have you seen any other evidence of this malign side to his personality? A bit of kitten-kicking perhaps, or finger-clicking at staff, swearing at nuns, anything like that? Mmm?

[F1boat]

I'm one of the few who side with Vettel here and I am pleased that Karthikeyan is punished. Backmakers must learn not to ruin the race of frontrunners. I hate when such thing happens and will never forget the horrid moment when Verstappen cost Montoya the Brazil GP win in 2001. I hate backmakers making trouble for leaders.
About the remark, Vettel tried a joke when he was frustrated and I think that he meant the car, not Narain.

[Robinho]

he didn't mean the car, when interviewed in english he said there were idiots at the back

[Knock-on]

Come on F1. Vettel was being a petulant kid and sounded like one. As for the move, I really fail to see why the boy was punished. I just don't see it

[Bagwan]

Vettel dis-obeyed instructions to pit in the final laps , apparently .
His radio was working , and the pit boards were out to tell him to retire .

[steveaki13]

Vettel dis-obeyed instructions to pit in the final laps , apparently .
His radio was working , and the pit boards were out to tell him to retire .

Shows the mind set of Vettel really.

The team asked him to retire I assume because they wanted to take advantage of a reulation like Gear Box Change??

But he was 11th and Vettel as all the best drivers do saw he still had a chance to claim a point into the last corner potentially so kept going.

Afterall a potential point could make the difference come November.

[steveaki13]

Also still think its stinks that Narain got penalised for that.

Shame on F1 stewards..

[schmenke]

... Backmakers must learn not to ruin the race of frontrunners. I hate when such thing happens and will never forget the horrid moment when Verstappen cost Montoya the Brazil GP win in 2001. I hate backmakers making trouble for leaders.....

I don’t understand this.
Backmarkers are part of racing and are an element with which drivers need to learn to contend. In the vast majority of cases backmarkers do an adequate job of moving off the racing line when lapped, but the lead cars need to also show some patience when overtaking, especially late in a race when tires are worn and there is possibly a build-up of marbles off line.
Vettel’s words (and actions) are out of line. It’s obvious that Karthikeyan did nothing to maliciously impede Vettel.

[Robinho]

forgot about the retiring thing, after the race Vettel catergorically stated his radio wasn't working for most of the race and meant his pit stops were all a lap late as he was working off pit boards. Also towards the end of the race we heard three radio messages over about 1 lap, the first telling Vettel to bring the car to the pits to retire for an unspecified problem, the second saying to carry on and finish, the third saying park the car, emergency, emergency.

Presumabley he just took the car to the finish

[CNR]

Shows the mind set of Vettel really.

The team asked him to retire I assume because they wanted to take advantage of a reulation like Gear Box Change??

But he was 11th and Vettel as all the best drivers do saw he still had a chance to claim a point into the last corner potentially so kept going.

Afterall a potential point could make the difference come November.

not sure if you got the team radio
he was told to pit
then told to stay out then stop the car

[steveaki13]

not sure if you got the team radio
he was told to pit
then told to stay out then stop the car

No didn't hear that, I was reacting only to an above post.

Thanks for the info

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm one of the few who side with Vettel here and I am pleased that Karthikeyan is punished. Backmakers must learn not to ruin the race of frontrunners. I hate when such thing happens and will never forget the horrid moment when Verstappen cost Montoya the Brazil GP win in 2001. I hate backmakers making trouble for leaders.
About the remark, Vettel tried a joke when he was frustrated and I think that he meant the car, not Narain.

Can I have some of what you are smoking? That stuff must be good.

So, according to you, backmarkers should just bend over and run into the gravel trap to make way for the frontrunners? The Verstappen-Montoya incident has nothing in common with this one. Also, in what parallel universe does somebody call a car an idiot? :confused: Vettel was obviously being a disrespectful, petulant little cock, admit it.

Probably this video puts things into some sort of perspective. Narain explains what happens there. He was straightening his car after making a mistake and Vettel just came in too eager to overtake him and get back onto the racing line, so that he doesn't lose touch with Hamilton. Simple racing incident. The penalty is utter bull. I see Narain making a lot more sense in the video than Vettel to be honest.

VeeEP6ZwCVU

Weren't people lambasting Lewis for kind of the same move he tried on Kobayashi last year at Spa, albeit with much disastrous consequences? At least Button and Lewis were man enough to admit they were at fault.

[tfp]

Very well put!

Thanks :)


If what Karthikeyan said in interview was what he said in the stewards' box he may have shot himself in the foot, figuratively. He might not have gotten a penalty if he stated flat-out that Vettel chopped him, which he did do. Vettel could've passed Narain without incident quite easily but was too quick to get back into the slipstream...Vettel ALSO 'has mirrors on his car he should've used'...if he had, he might have noticed that he wasn't clear of the HRT.

My point exactly.

Have the FIA given any reason yet to why Karthikayen was punished? I'd love to hear their reasons...

[BDunnell]

Driver is unhappy with race incident and forum goes all wild over it.What's next? Huge uproar over cat being caught harassing a mouse ?

ioan, you and I both know that your attitude to such things depends entirely on the identity of the driver concerned, rather than being consistent.

[BDunnell]

If what Karthikeyan said in interview was what he said in the stewards' box he may have shot himself in the foot, figuratively.

Indeed. As I said earlier, Karthikeyan seems quite a gentlemanly character, and given that I'm not surprised that he should take blame that he doesn't deserve.

[CNR]

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/53825/f1-amid-concorde-talks-parr-exit-not-coincidental

Red Bull to discuss ignored team orders with Vettel
Red Bull will sit with Sebastian Vettel following reports the German deliberately ignored the team's race instructions in Malaysia.
The team was heard on the radio instructing the reigning back-to-back world champion to retire his car, ostensibly because of dangerously high brake temperatures.
So often were the calls unheeded that Vettel's engineer Guillaume 'Rocky' Rocquelin ultimately declared it an "emergency".
A late-race retirement, with Vettel definitely out of the points following his clash with Narain Karthikeyan, would have allowed Red Bull to install a new gearbox in his car for the forthcoming event in China.
Red Bull explained that Vettel did not hear the instructions due to a broken radio.
But photographs have emerged that show those instructions were also reflected in Vettel's end-of-lap pit boards.

[Tazio]

On-board video from last weekend’s Malaysian GP has revealed the Formula One champion showing the middle finger to Indian driver Narain Karthikeyan after the two collided during the race
“I think he’s highly frustrated because he’s having a tough season after dominating the track for two years. It’s completely unprofessional to blame me for the incident. The derogatory remark only goes to show him in bad light. I, however, have high regard for Vettel for whatever he has achieved in a short span of time,” Narain told Deccan Chronicle from Singapore.

Narain said those who have superior cars should show some respect to backmarkers.

“We have every right to race on track. The rule is that backmarkers have to give way when they are shown the blue flag, but it doesn’t mean we have to go out of the track. Just because he has a good car, he can’t call others an idiot. I have won races in all the previous single-seater championships I have participated in and held pole position in the most demanding F3 Macau Grand Prix, so I don’t need a certificate from Vettel,” Narain said.


'Idiot' remark: Narain Karthikeyan hits out at Sebastian Vettel | The Asian Age (http://www.asianage.com/racing/idiot-remark-narain-karthikeyan-hits-out-sebastian-vettel-793)

[TheFamousEccles]

^^ +1

“We have every right to race on track. The rule is that backmarkers have to give way when they are shown the blue flag, but it doesn’t mean we have to go out of the track. Just because he has a good car, he can’t call others an idiot. I have won races in all the previous single-seater championships I have participated in and held pole position in the most demanding F3 Macau Grand Prix, so I don’t need a certificate from Vettel,” Narain said.

Some of the posters here need to take heed and put the rose-coloured glasses away. It seems Bieber is like any other privelidged kiddy who never had to work for a living - totally out of touch with an over-sized sense of entitlement and no regard for consequences.

I was never a fan but far from a hater - but he is going to need to pull his head in this year and show some fortitude in the face of adversity, given he is not able to get on with this years car as well as he would like. Character building apparently, and it is the measure of a man.

[EuroTroll]

Bieber

Oh good. Glad that's catching on. :mark:

[CaptainRaiden]

'Idiot' remark: Narain Karthikeyan hits out at Sebastian Vettel | The Asian Age (http://www.asianage.com/racing/idiot-remark-narain-karthikeyan-hits-out-sebastian-vettel-793)

Nico Hulkenberg makes a very good point as well:


Sahara Force India driver Nico Hulkenberg, who is in New Delhi for a promotional event, said it was not Narain’s fault. “I heard about whatever happened and I also saw it on TV later. So, I don’t really understand why Vettel said all of that,” he said.

“I think Vettel was just emotional at that point of time. He lost out on points, it was frustrating for him and his team. At the end of the day, he is just human and sometimes you get emotional,” the German added.

I wonder if the finger raising petulant cock is gonna admit he was out of line and apologize for his comments. I don't expect it to be honest.

[Tumbo]

perhaps we should just tweet an apology that is accepted as a correct apology from drivers these days

[F1boat]

Can I have some of what you are smoking? That stuff must be good.

So, according to you, backmarkers should just bend over and run into the gravel trap to make way for the frontrunners? The Verstappen-Montoya incident has nothing in common with this one. Also, in what parallel universe does somebody call a car an idiot? :confused: Vettel was obviously being a disrespectful, petulant little cock, admit it.


Your post consider so many insults that it is curious why you are so angry when other people speak in similar, although less violent way.

[CaptainRaiden]

Your post consider so many insults that it is curious why you are so angry when other people speak in similar, although less violent way.

Aw, did it hurt? I'm sorry.

Kind sir, might you pass thy exotic herb that's hallucinating your majesty to such an extent that ye side with the unruly, child-like rooster?

[jens]

The last couple of posters shall use common sense and concentrate on the topic. It can clearly be seen that you are not going anywhere with comments like these, it is just irritating others.

[CaptainRaiden]

The last couple of posters shall use common sense and concentrate on the topic. It can clearly be seen that you are not going anywhere with comments like these, it is just irritating others.

Perhaps boat could stay on topic. At least I did in my first post.

[Tazio]

Reports emerging from Germany suggest that the Red Bull star could face the sanction of motorsport’s ruling body FIA for his outburst during last weekend’s Malaysian Grand Prix where he flashed his middle finger at the Indian driver and also called him an “idiot” after their on track collision.

The FIA has been informed about the incident, as Vettel’s acrimonious gesture may have breached the new, stricter code of conduct introduced by president Jean Todt, says a report.

Narain, meanwhile, has been getting support from various quarters. “He (Vettel) has breached the code of conduct. You sign it when you get the super license. Then you have to behave accordingly.
I think he will just get a warning


http://www.asianage.com/racing/idiot-row-sebastian-vettel-be-punished-misconduct-998

[tfp]

Did Karthikayen get a penalty? Or should I not believe everything I read? I have yet to see any articles floating around explaining (if Karthikayen was penalised) why he got a penalty. I'd love to hear the FIA's reasoning!

[Tazio]

He may be the German version of Hamilton, but he sort of gets this wing nut loose fighting for every inch on the track. It is an anomaly, but one worth noting. Honestly what should you expect? I hear they have him on suicide watch! Guy went freakin' mental I would not be surprised if he went all Jimmey Piersol up in here.
Jimmy Piersall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Piersall) :laugh:

[pete c]

wow, do you just make this stuff up to make your self feel important, or what

[F1boat]

The last couple of posters shall use common sense and concentrate on the topic. It can clearly be seen that you are not going anywhere with comments like these, it is just irritating others.

OK, jens, no problem :) I personally am happy that my opinion is backed by the FIA officials, which maybe be unpopular, but I think that this is because for fans the natural opinion is to back the underdog. I have stated my opinion that backmakers should get the hell out of the leader's way and I have nothing more to add. For me Vettel is still a nice kid and for sure no worse than others highly competitive drivers, who have shown frustration with other drivers - Alonso with Petrov, Lewis with the monkeys... and lets not forget Michael Schumacher with DC in 1998. This is part of the sport.

[CaptainRaiden]

OK, jens, no problem :) I personally am happy that my opinion is backed by the FIA officials, which maybe be unpopular, but I think that this is because for fans the natural opinion is to back the underdog. I have stated my opinion that backmakers should get the hell out of the leader's way and I have nothing more to add. For me Vettel is still a nice kid and for sure no worse than others highly competitive drivers, who have shown frustration with other drivers - Alonso with Petrov, Lewis with the monkeys... and lets not forget Michael Schumacher with DC in 1998. This is part of the sport.

Yeah, but does that warrant throwing middle fingers and then calling the guy "idiot" and "cucumber" for something which was pretty much a racing incident, with mistake from both parties involved? Vettel moved way too much when Narain was still trying to straighten his car. And Narain moved too soon to get in the tow. It was a minute slice that punctured Vettel's tyres. I doubt the penalty would have been handed out if Vettel didn't have a puncture or if he didn't act like a spoiled brat and threw his toys out of the pram.

Also, they should get "the hell out" of the leader's way, meaning they're there just to make up numbers and don't have their own race, or are not fighting for positions? If Narain had gone any more left, he'd have gone off track into the gravel trap. Is this what backmarkers are supposed to do to avoid the frontrunners? Or is it also the frontrunners' job to avoid the backmarkers?

And of course, the FIA officials ALWAYS make the right call when it comes to issuing penalties. :rolleyes:

[CaptainRaiden]

Also, this has nothing to do with favoring any underdog. Narain has had brain-farts in the past and he has been grilled thoroughly by forumers here, and also myself. The point is that it was a racing incident in which Vettel and Red Bull are coming off as elitist bullies and dicks.

[Norwegian Blue]

BBC news looks like a school playground this morning:

Sebastian Vettel is a cry baby, says Narain Karthikeyan, at Break Time - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17550940)

[F1boat]

Also, they should get "the hell out" of the leader's way, meaning they're there just to make up numbers and don't have their own race, or are not fighting for positions?

And of course, the FIA officials ALWAYS make the right call when it comes to issuing penalties. :rolleyes:

We all know why Max included these teams in the grid.
And about the FIA officials, in this case I agree with them. They may not be perfect, but surely they know better than us, armchair experts. Obviously in this case we'd have to agree to disagree. :)

[Bagwan]

Bullies and cucumbers have always been present on the grid .

Both drivers are wrong .
Both mis-judged the move .

Sebastian thought he was past him and moved to take his line for the next corner .
Narain , presumably had his foot on the gas when Seb moved over .

Karthekeyan was penalized because he interfered with the passing car .
Vettel was the one who moved over .
But Narain still had his foot down .

Neither is free from blame in the incident .

But , more to blame , in my opinion , is the design of these cars , where a driver simply cannot see his own front wing .

[Dave B]

I can't see the end of my car's bonnet but I still know it's there.

[Garry Walker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEMb1LuHj-w


When he's under pressure he makes mistakes and blames everyone else. Becoming standard behaviour for Seb. For the last 2 years he's had a car that was so fast that he can just drive away from the field but now the Bull is on par with the McLaren and possibly the Ferrari as well by Sundays performance, then he will show the Glass Jaw more and more this year. Absolutely. He is not looking so fantastic when he doesn't have a 1 second per lap faster car that he so obviously had the last 2 years.


Driver is unhappy with race incident and forum goes all wild over it.What's next? Huge uproar over cat being caught harassing a mouse ?
If Webber or Hamilton had behaved like that, you would have gone on a 5160 post rampage accusing them of every possible thing in world.


Can I have some of what you are smoking? That stuff must be good.

So, according to you, backmarkers should just bend over and run into the gravel trap to make way for the frontrunners? The Verstappen-Montoya incident has nothing in common with this one. Also, in what parallel universe does somebody call a car an idiot? :confused: Vettel was obviously being a disrespectful, petulant little cock, admit it.

Probably this video puts things into some sort of perspective. Narain explains what happens there. He was straightening his car after making a mistake and Vettel just came in too eager to overtake him and get back onto the racing line, so that he doesn't lose touch with Hamilton. Simple racing incident. The penalty is utter bull. I see Narain making a lot more sense in the video than Vettel to be honest.

Weren't people lambasting Lewis for kind of the same move he tried on Kobayashi last year at Spa, albeit with much disastrous consequences? At least Button and Lewis were man enough to admit they were at fault. You are forgetting that discussing with BieberFinger fans is useless most of the time.


Nico Hulkenberg makes a very good point as well:
I wonder if the finger raising petulant cock is gonna admit he was out of line and apologize for his comments. I don't expect it to be honest.
LOL. He will not. His biggest fan, helmet marko, has taugh him that the is always right, never to blame and everyone else must bow to him, the great fingerbieber.


BBC news looks like a school playground this morning:

Sebastian Vettel is a cry baby, says Narain Karthikeyan, at Break Time - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17550940)

The Truth.

[CaptainRaiden]

We all know why Max included these teams in the grid.
And about the FIA officials, in this case I agree with them. They may not be perfect, but surely they know better than us, armchair experts. Obviously in this case we'd have to agree to disagree. :)

Well, a former driver and two current drivers disagree with you and the FIA stewards, which includes ONE former GP driver, Johnny Herbert. David Coulthard, Nico Hulkenberg and most recently Vitaly Petrov has gone in favor of Narain. None of them having any affiliations with Narain or HRT.

Petrov blames Vettel for Karthikeyan incident - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/276632/petrov-blames-vettel-for-karthikeyan-incident/)


Petrov blames Vettel for Karthikeyan incident

Sebastian Vettel was completely at fault for the incident which cost him any chance of points in Sunday’s Malaysian Grand Prix. That is the opinion of Vitaly Petrov, who in 2012 is competing with a back-of-the-grid team for the first time.

In the midfield with Renault in 2010 and 2011, Petrov replaced Jarno Trulli at Caterham for the start of this year. He is sure that fellow tail-ender Karthikeyan did nothing wrong, with the double World Champion having labelled the HRT driver ‘cucumber’ and ‘idiot’ in the minutes which followed the race.

“Vettel shouldn’t have said anything like that or showed him the finger,” Petrov told Russia’s RIA Novosti. “I understand that it’s the emotions, the race. You can understand situations like that, but you have to control yourself.

“Karthikeyan didn’t do anything unnecessary - didn’t hit him, didn’t change direction sharply. Sebastian overtook him and started to turn. But Narain was going straight.”

Karthikeyan was handed a 20-second time penalty for the incident by FIA race stewards including three-time Grand Prix winner Johnny Herbert.

It'd be interesting to see the full explanation for this penalty by the FIA.

[The Black Knight]

Bullies and cucumbers have always been present on the grid .

Both drivers are wrong .
Both mis-judged the move .

Sebastian thought he was past him and moved to take his line for the next corner .
Narain , presumably had his foot on the gas when Seb moved over .

Karthekeyan was penalized because he interfered with the passing car .
Vettel was the one who moved over .
But Narain still had his foot down .

Neither is free from blame in the incident .

But , more to blame , in my opinion , is the design of these cars , where a driver simply cannot see his own front wing .

Yeah, lord knows he should not have his foot on the gas in a race. How unreasonable of him :rolleyes:

Narain didn't interfere with the passing car, the passing car interfered with him when he cut across him too early. A completely idiotic move.

[Bagwan]

Yeah, lord knows he should not have his foot on the gas in a race. That would be totally unjustified :rolleyes:

Narain didn't interfere with the passing car, the passing car interfered with him for cutting across him too early. A completely idiotic move.

You got it right that Narain was trying to stay out of the way , Mr. Knight .
However , I think we must assume that Narain was expecting Seb to come across to take the preferred line into the next corner .

Sure , he would have wanted to keep the foot in , as he would have wanted to take advantage of any tow available from the passing car .

Just as Seb can be said to have mis-judged when he was clear enough to move , it can also be said that Narain also misjudged when Seb would move .

It's the responsibility of the guy being passed under blue flags to get out of the way as quickly as possible .
He's also the best sighted in the situation , being the guy behind , able to see the man ahead .

In the end , the only guy able to see the front end plate slashing the tire would have had to have been looking backwards into his mirrors , instead of looking forwards to get his line for the next corner .

[Bagwan]

I can't see the end of my car's bonnet but I still know it's there.

You're not likely running at close to 200mph , though , are you , Dave ?

[The Black Knight]

You got it right that Narain was trying to stay out of the way , Mr. Knight .
However , I think we must assume that Narain was expecting Seb to come across to take the preferred line into the next corner .

Sure , he would have wanted to keep the foot in , as he would have wanted to take advantage of any tow available from the passing car .

Just as Seb can be said to have mis-judged when he was clear enough to move , it can also be said that Narain also misjudged when Seb would move .

It's the responsibility of the guy being passed under blue flags to get out of the way as quickly as possible .
He's also the best sighted in the situation , being the guy behind , able to see the man ahead .

In the end , the only guy able to see the front end plate slashing the tire would have had to have been looking backwards into his mirrors , instead of looking forwards to get his line for the next corner .

What are you on about? It was utterly ridiculous for him to bother moving left. Have a look at the video again. They were going from a right hand corner to a left one, so Vettel should have stayed right and gradually rejoined the racing line, which would have been the smart and correct thing to do, opposed to cutting left. He was actually increasing the length of the circuit by doing what he was doing. Narain was absolutely correct to keep on the gas. Only an idiot would ever cut across left in that situation. Vettel's fault 100%.

[CNR]

BBC news looks like a school playground this morning:

Sebastian Vettel is a cry baby, says Narain Karthikeyan, at Break Time - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17550940)

is this wise for him to say that ?

what if Sebastian decides to do a qualifying run in q1 as it is they are about 4 seconds behind in q1 now

[Tumbo]

LOL. He will not. His biggest fan, helmet marko, has taugh him that the is always right, never to blame and everyone else must bow to him, the great fingerbieber.

Yep so Vettel is exactly the same as Hamilton - just that he isn't willing to tweet an apology once ppl point out he was at fault; both think they are Gods of the racetrack and unwilling to accept responsibility when they have brain-farts.

Though I notice that ppl are more willing to use offensive terms toward Vettel as opposed to the great British whinge - it's cause he ain't black innit?

[Mia 01]

Yep so Vettel is exactly the same as Hamilton - just that he isn't willing to tweet an apology once ppl point out he was at fault; both think they are Gods of the racetrack and unwilling to accept responsibility when they have brain-farts.

Though I notice that ppl are more willing to use offensive terms toward Vettel as opposed to the great British whinge - it's cause he ain't black innit?

Yes, both Lewis and Seb are very like and boths behaviour at time was unforgivable. But, is it possible to compare a cucumber to a monkey?

Seb will soon be back winning a couple of races.

[CaptainRaiden]

Yep so Vettel is exactly the same as Hamilton - just that he isn't willing to tweet an apology once ppl point out he was at fault; both think they are Gods of the racetrack and unwilling to accept responsibility when they have brain-farts.

Lewis put up his hand and said he was at fault 100% for his accident with Kobayashi at Spa and with Button at Canada last year, even though the second one was a bit suspect. He also tweeted and said sorry to his fans on Facebook. When has Vettel actually taken blame for an accident....ever? Him and Helmut Marko bullied and blamed Webber for his crash at Turkey, and now he blames Narain, both actually his faults.


Though I notice that ppl are more willing to use offensive terms toward Vettel as opposed to the great British whinge - it's cause he ain't black innit?

What crap. Has anybody stopped you from using offensive terms towards Lewis? Does Lewis have an uncanny resemblance to some "music" celebrity? If yes, then by all means, use it! If you can't find a funny enough nickname, no point whining about it.

And how the heck is Bieber an offensive term? :laugh: What PG world are we living in? :eek:

Can you seriously beat this though?

http://fmfl.net/Portals/0/Users/Commisherings/BieberVettel.png

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/7/28/6d4f1e07-14b5-4414-aebd-452ab68cdf2b.jpg

:p

[Tumbo]

I wonder if the finger raising petulant cock is gonna admit he was out of line and apologize for his comments. I don't expect it to be honest.

Who said I was talking about the 'bieber' comment?

And did Hamilton carry on like he was the world's most wronged driver following his run in w/ Maldonado at Monaco or was I just imagining that and his subsequent wanna-be Ali G moment??

Also at what point in time did I say that Vettel was in the right or that he shouldn't apologise for his actions?

As for using offensive terms towards Lewis why would I? When he isn't sulking or calling conspiracy theories then he is one of the most talented drivers out there and certainly someone who enjoys good racing - seems some ppl have a real chip in their shoulder about Vettel and won't let it go

[Knock-on]

:laugh: I didn't really know that much about Bieber but they do look quite similar :D

As for Tumbo and his inane claims... what utter claptrap.

[CaptainRaiden]

And did Hamilton carry on like he was the world's most wronged driver following his run in w/ Maldonado at Monaco or was I just imagining that and his subsequent wanna-be Ali G moment??

Two completely different scenarios. Massa impeded Lewis during qualifying at Monaco. Then in the race, Massa turned into Hamilton, or what can be called a 50-50 racing incident, and Hamilton was given the penalty. Maldonado saw Lewis' nose from a mile, yet turned in, and no penalty for Pastor. Lewis was understandably frustrated over the penalty and how the FIA prohibits good old racing and overtaking moves these days. He later apologized to both Pastor and Felipe on Twitter the following week, and again later in the year apologized to Massa in person. Has Vettel apologized yet?


As for using offensive terms towards Lewis why would I? When he isn't sulking or calling conspiracy theories then he is one of the most talented drivers out there and certainly someone who enjoys good racing - seems some ppl have a real chip in their shoulder about Vettel and won't let it go

I'm a Lewis fan, and you can call him Obama for all I care. Lighten up over stupid nicknames. They're just for fun. It's not like calling him Bieber is gonna morph him into a 14 year old girl, even though he may act like that sometimes...

[Tumbo]

It's not like calling him Bieber is gonna morph him into a 14 year old girl, even though he may act like that sometimes...

As I outlined it was the 'petulant cock' rather than the Bieber I was talking about - quite frankly Vettel's performance last week was about on par w/ what i'm sure the vast majority of this forum think of Bieber's 'music'

[F1boat]

Note to both Seb and Narain:
Will Power Flips Off Officials - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScDjyS7SYZU&feature=related)
That's how you do it!

[CaptainRaiden]

As I outlined it was the 'petulant cock' rather than the Bieber I was talking about - quite frankly Vettel's performance last week was about on par w/ what i'm sure the vast majority of this forum think of Bieber's 'music'

Bah, I called Lewis petulant after his Monaco outburst myself. Maybe not cock though. :D But that's because Vettel and Horner did come off as elitist cocks in their interviews.

[Knock-on]

Vettel chops into a backmarker and flips the bird and Narain gets punished for being crashed into.

Seb then gets punished for a simple hand gesture.

What a load of bull. Hs Max sneaked back into the FIA or something?

[dj_bytedisaster]

I wouldn't really make too much out of this. I've never given much thought to what footballists, racing drivers or other competative sportsmen say after an intense competition.
I disagree with people, who say that he gets bitchy because of not winning. If memory serves me right, he was running fourth, when the incident occurred. With Button being at the wrong end of the field at the time, he had a prime opportunity to claw back some of the deficit he had due to Buttons win in down-under and that was ruined by a needless collision.
I don't really agree with FIA handing out a penalty to Karthikeyan - it was a racing incident, but I think we've seen better ways to let the leaders pass. Maybe I don't have the neccessary mindset to be a racing driver, but if I was dawdling around in the slowest car in the field, which only gets on the grid, because the frontrunners don't bother with the softer tires in Q1, I'd get the heck as far out of the way as possible, mainly to avoid situations like that. We've seen people almost coming to a stop to let other pass (A particular situation with D'Ambrosio springs to mind). While that may be a little over the top, but the Vettel collision wasn't the first situation in which Karthekeyan kept the hammer down when being lapped and it came close to a collision.

Vettel has to take the blame though for not being man enough to appologize for his comments. I think we might see more situations like that, because

a) he's still relatively young
b) he's under immense pressure from the media in Germany.

Having had the honour to meet him once, I would say that his real personality seems to be closer to what we saw in his TopGear visit, rather than what we saw in Malaysia. The two biggest problems are Helmut Marko, who truly is an arrogant prick, and RTL, who drum up an intense expectation. It's so bad that many people over here rather pay for the SKY broadcast than watching the free RTL one. Those guys don't accept anything but a Vettel win as an agreeable result. I can't imagine that such things wouldn't be without consequences for such a young guy. He might find himself in the same position as Hamilton last year

[Bagwan]

What are you on about? It was utterly ridiculous for him to bother moving left. Have a look at the video again. They were going from a right hand corner to a left one, so Vettel should have stayed right and gradually rejoined the racing line, which would have been the smart and correct thing to do, opposed to cutting left. He was actually increasing the length of the circuit by doing what he was doing. Narain was absolutely correct to keep on the gas. Only an idiot would ever cut across left in that situation. Vettel's fault 100%.

I'd love to watch the video again , but it's gone .

[CaptainRaiden]

I don't really agree with FIA handing out a penalty to Karthikeyan - it was a racing incident, but I think we've seen better ways to let the leaders pass. Maybe I don't have the neccessary mindset to be a racing driver, but if I was dawdling around in the slowest car in the field, which only gets on the grid, because the frontrunners don't bother with the softer tires in Q1, I'd get the heck as far out of the way as possible, mainly to avoid situations like that. We've seen people almost coming to a stop to let other pass (A particular situation with D'Ambrosio springs to mind). While that may be a little over the top, but the Vettel collision wasn't the first situation in which Karthekeyan kept the hammer down when being lapped and it came close to a collision.

The rest of your post I agree with, but how much farther was Narain supposed to get than the extreme left of the track where he already was?? Vettel had at least 70% of the track to work with, yet he jinked left. It was a matter of inches, and could have been avoided if Vettel had used a little caution and not used the HRT as a moving chicane. If the onus is on the backmarker to let the leaders pass, then it's also the responsibility of the frontrunners to make a clean pass. Backmarkers should not be expected to run off the track to let the leaders pass. That is elitist bully talk.

While backmarkers are there, in most cases, simply to make up numbers, but the front running drivers and teams should respect the fact that they also have their own race to race, no matter how insignificant that might be. There might be teammate battles, battle of the minnow teams, or simply counting on other teams' misfortune in a race of attrition to get that single championship point that brings them extra revenue. For ex. Narain starting 10th at the restart.

Just like Lewis calling the backmarkers monkey was utter bull, so is Vettel calling them idiot or cucumber. These guys need to have some humility slapped into them.


Having had the honour to meet him once, I would say that his real personality seems to be closer to what we saw in his TopGear visit, rather than what we saw in Malaysia.

Yeah, but all that charming nice guy, wide-grin, wise-cracking personality goes tits up in the pooper the moment he's facing adversity, doesn't it?

[CaptainRaiden]

Absolutely. He is not looking so fantastic when he doesn't have a 1 second per lap faster car that he so obviously had the last 2 years.

I agree 100%. (Gawd, I'm agreeing with you. Hell has frozen over. :p ) And it has become more so obvious in the last two races where Webber has been outqualifying him. Having said that, he does have a better race day. Also, Red Bull's awesome exhaust blown diffuser, I think, was playing into Vettel's driving style a lot more than Webber's, that's why we saw Mark struggling last year so badly. Now it's more equal, because Bieber can't just step on the gas coming out of corners like he used to. He tried that in the Australian GP practice and ended up in the gravel.


If Webber or Hamilton had behaved like that, you would have gone on a 5160 post rampage accusing them of every possible thing in world.

Agreed again. (Crap)

Let me balance this. FU dude. :p

[dj_bytedisaster]

Now it's more equal, because Bieber can't just step on the gas coming out of corners like he used to. He tried that in the Australian GP practice and ended up in the gravel.


So did Alonso. I don't really get the reasons for why people hate Vettel. I'm not a fan of him either, but I think some of the things being said here are just wrong. Some keep babbling about Vettel having had a 1-second faster car, which begs the questions, why the 2010 season could have been that close and why Mark kept perpetually underperforming the whole season. Being German, his name was known to me way before he came to formula 1 (shortly after he stopped soiling his diapers). Before he got into the Torro Rosso, he was regualrily beaten in junior formulae by a guy named Lewis Hamilton and the two even became friends of sort. That doesn't quite sound like someone, who bitches around whenever he faces competition.
I maintain that it is mainly down to the immense pressure he's being subjected to, pretty much as it happened to Lewis. Now that Button had slapped him around for a year, the pressure is off a bit and Lewis looks much more relaxed and less bitchy than last year. If Mercedes can ever manage to sort out their car, some of the expectation will be put on Rosberg and I think Vettel will become a tad more relaxed.

[jens]

I think most drivers have had emotional moments like Vettel. For example even Coulthard, who is generally regarded as a bit of a gentleman, has shown finger to Schumacher and wanted to "kick three colours of ****" out of Massa after a certain accident.

[Knock-on]

I think most drivers have had emotional moments like Vettel. For example even Coulthard, who is generally regarded as a bit of a gentleman, has shown finger to Schumacher and wanted to "kick three colours of ****" out of Massa after a certain accident.

With diplomacy like that, you could be a moderator one day if you play your cards right ;)

All drivers will get frustrated and flip the bird or lose their rag. Some apologise after but some just come across as arrogant.

I think Seb's an alright bloke. He seems to genuinely be OK but has this real pretentious streak. Of course, his real personality will come out when he's under real pressure which looks like being this year.

At the end of the day, it's all about what he does on track but comments like this are a bit disrespectful and not becoming a twice world champion.

[Dave B]

You're not likely running at close to 200mph , though , are you , Dave ?

Nor have I been a racing driver since I could walk, and nor am I paid several million dollars per year by one of the top teams in the world. What's the point you're trying to make?

[Bagwan]

Nor have I been a racing driver since I could walk, and nor am I paid several million dollars per year by one of the top teams in the world. What's the point you're trying to make?

That would be the same point your remark was seemingly made to discredit ; that they can't see thier own front wings .

[Dave B]

You're making no sense.

Obviously drivers can't see their front wings (as I can't see the end of my bonnet) but they still know it's there (as do I). Obviously they're racing at speed in close proximity whereas I'm battling morons on the M2, but that's what they're being paid handsomely to do, and what they've practiced for years. Their spacial awareness should be such that they take into account the parts of the cars which they cannot see, irrespective of the speed they're travelling. Am I really having to explain all this?

[Bagwan]

It is my opinion that it is a big issue , Dave .

They can't see it , just like they can't see beside themselves , or behind themselves at speed .

Pretty much every time out , we have at least one front wing trashed , littering the track with razor-sharp debris , and I feel it's largely because they can't see them .

Can you understand now , Dave ?
Does it make sense for you now , your holyness ?

[TheFamousEccles]

BieberFinger




:rotflmao:

[jens]

Pretty much every time out , we have at least one front wing trashed , littering the track with razor-sharp debris , and I feel it's largely because they can't see them .


I don't think it is related to "seeing" them. Decisions in high-speed racing are done in a split-second and not always the right one is made. When Button dived on the inside of Karthikeyan, I doubt he thought he didn't have a wing there, rather than he expected Narain to give more room.

[BDunnell]

Yeah, but all that charming nice guy, wide-grin, wise-cracking personality goes tits up in the pooper the moment he's facing adversity, doesn't it?

Doesn't it with most people in most professions?

[BDunnell]

He needs to step back and start acting in a professional manner and I'm surprised Red Bull have not warned him on this by now.

I'm not, because the Red Bull hierarchy have always, to an extent, indulged him.

[BDunnell]

It is my opinion that it is a big issue , Dave .

They can't see it , just like they can't see beside themselves , or behind themselves at speed .

Pretty much every time out , we have at least one front wing trashed , littering the track with razor-sharp debris , and I feel it's largely because they can't see them .

Can you understand now , Dave ?
Does it make sense for you now , your holyness ?

And this has nothing to do with driving standards at all?

How many times have we heard a driver lay the blame for an accident on not being able to see their own front wings?

[wedge]

Doesn't it with most people in most professions?

Bieber has been Golden Boy for quite a while. Even 2010 he was somewhat forgiven for being inexperienced but there have been signs regarding his temperament:

2009 Turkish GP he criticized his 3-stopper strategy with good reason though not good team etiquette.

2010 - most obvious was his hand reaction to the crash with Webber in Turkey; Chinese GP where he stupidly thought it would be a good a idea to go wheel to wheel in a ruthless manner down pit lane of all places.

He's got a bright image which is too good to be true. No way would I want to contemplate a downfall but it's nice to see him human after all.


I'm not, because the Red Bull hierarchy have always, to an extent, indulged him.

It's part and parcel of sport, protecting your assets. Best - or should that be worst example of this is Kenny Dalglish & Luis Suarez.

[CaptainRaiden]

So did Alonso.

Alonso spun because he got his left front on the wet green turf at the side of the track, trying to gain a faster entry into turn one. Vettel spun because he was too hot on the accelerator coming out of turn 5 during third practice, I think. He had the same type of spins during testing too. Reason? The Red Bull is not enjoying the same type of rear downforce it did with their exhaust blown diffuser on the RB7 in 2011, which worked much better than other teams because it was part of the Red Bull's design philosophy from the beginning, and not a bolt-on addition as it was for Mclaren and Ferrari.


I don't really get the reasons for why people hate Vettel. I'm not a fan of him either, but I think some of the things being said here are just wrong.

Judging by your posts and annoyance over people bashing Vettel, I'd hazard a guess that you ARE his fan.


Some keep babbling about Vettel having had a 1-second faster car, which begs the questions, why the 2010 season could have been that close and why Mark kept perpetually underperforming the whole season.

I think when people are talking about a 1-second faster car, they're talking mostly about the RB7 in 2011. The difference is more obvious now as to how Vettel is struggling to beat Webber or even get his car to qualify in the top 5 in the two races where he dominated last year.

As for 2010, Mark actually performed better than Vettel the whole season, even though he won 4 races to Vettel's 5, he was more consistent, and was ahead in the points table before Abu Dhabi, and had a bigger chance at winning the title against Alonso there. It was Ferrari's stupid strategy to pit Alonso to cover Webber, Mark's inability to work his tyres, and Vitaly Petrov that won Vettel his first championship.

[airshifter]

Alonso spun because he got his left front on the wet green turf at the side of the track, trying to gain a faster entry into turn one. Vettel spun because he was too hot on the accelerator coming out of turn 5 during third practice, I think. He had the same type of spins during testing too. Reason? The Red Bull is not enjoying the same type of rear downforce it did with their exhaust blown diffuser on the RB7 in 2011, which worked much better than other teams because it was part of the Red Bull's design philosophy from the beginning, and not a bolt-on addition as it was for Mclaren and Ferrari.

At the end of the day, both offs were driver errors probably caused by the driver attempting to adapt to a car that has changed. I personally don't see why one driver mistake is more cause to question them than another driver mistake. Both are simply humans being human.


As for 2010, Mark actually performed better than Vettel the whole season, even though he won 4 races to Vettel's 5, he was more consistent, and was ahead in the points table before Abu Dhabi, and had a bigger chance at winning the title against Alonso there. It was Ferrari's stupid strategy to pit Alonso to cover Webber, Mark's inability to work his tyres, and Vitaly Petrov that won Vettel his first championship.

I can agree that fate/luck/whatever you want to call it played a part in Vettels title. But it plays a part in every single drivers season, as does the car.


I think the incident with Narain was 99% Vettels fault. But I find myself hard pressed to find any top level driver that hasn't done something human on occasion, and often they still blame the other driver at some point.

[F1boat]

Astonishing that this is still debated. xD

[Jefe Máximo]

Media channels in India wasted no time in playing the nationalism card and trying to extract some verbal retaliation from Karthikeyan. Pathetic.

[tfp]

You should count your blessings it wasn't Lewis this time. We would be on much more than 7 pages and this would be going on for the next couple of months. ;)

Most seem to blame Vettel for swerving into Karthikayen. Others blame Karthikayen for not getting out of the way of a front runner. Me? I blame Hamilton...

[odykas]

Found this and couldn't resist :p :

http://okeeffef1.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cucumber.jpg

[F1boat]

Most seem to blame Vettel for swerving into Karthikayen. Others blame Karthikayen for not getting out of the way of a front runner. Me? I blame Hamilton...

This! xD

[Zico]

Pirelli have created tyres that produce so many marbles. Vettel should have been well aware of this, he could and should have left Karthikayan more room but chose not to, so he only has himself to blame.

[sandystevees]

Sebastian Vettel born 3 July 1987 is a German Formula One racing driver, currently driving for Red Bull Racing. He is the current World Champion, having won the championship in 2010 and 2011.He has a great personality and also has a skilled driver.

[BDunnell]

Sebastian Vettel born 3 July 1987 is a German Formula One racing driver, currently driving for Red Bull Racing. He is the current World Champion, having won the championship in 2010 and 2011.He has a great personality and also has a skilled driver.

Which skilled driver does he have?

[Tazio]

Which skilled driver does he have? Ben we can count on you to keep people honest with their English grammar, and usually in a humorous way. :)


Is this possibly the thread winner I wonder?
I can't imagine any form of debate could compete from here on
Welcome to the forum Sandy, I would like to give you a little advice. When you quote Wikipedia it is probably a good idea to put it in the form of a quotation. Especially when you are quoting the first two sentences of:
Sebastian Vettel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebastian_Vettel) ;)

[F1boat]

Which skilled driver does he have?

Webber

[Robinho]

Webber

no, he doesn't have Webber, he owns him ;) (disclaimer, that joke would have been better used last season, and is no way representative of this posters opinion of the 2 drivers)

[Zico]

I wonder if Vettel needs a great car to perform to his best.. or is it because the car will evolve more towards Vettels style (being the number one driver) as the season progresses?

I don't believe Mark is half as bad as Vettel made him look last season but It will be interesting to see if Vettel will continue gaining the upper hand over Mark as the season continues.

[Tazio]

I wonder if Vettel needs a great car to perform to his best.. or is it because the car will evolve more towards Vettels style (being the number one driver) as the season progresses?

I rate Vettel very highly, when his car is right he is a very determined racer. The two WDC under his belt are evidence he is a very good racer. I just don't know if he is done maturing. He seems to have episodes where he is dicing with the likes of McLaren and makes mistakes. It is hard to put a stigma on a guy who just got done winning two straight WDC's, but I question some of his moves. He is phenomenal when he is out front in clean air just putting along. At Monza last season, or was it 2010 when he reported a loss of power, and Horner or his race engineer said: "stay out were looking at it" (the telemetry) to which Seb ejaculated:
"GUYS, ARE YOU F#CKING KIDDING ME OR WHAT". That may have been an elaborate ploy to let Mark through, but whoever was on the other end of the radio was not very impressed with the comment, and somehow he got full power back after Mark had passed.
Horner is a sneaky little sh!t, but I think it was Vettel being a little panicked and confused with that comment. It may be a little immaturity rearing its ugly head. In short I don't think he is better than Kimi Alonso Hamilton or Button and quite possibly not as good in equal machinery. Plus I think that he has a real fight on his hands because McLaren are close enough to call it even with Red Bull so far. JMHO

I love Vettel!
He is a great champion.

[i_max2k2]

Which skilled driver does he have?

Horner, Webber, Newey, wait driver?

[Tazio]

I love Vettel!
:s ailor: Are you a chick?
OK then! :idea: ;)

[F1boat]

I wonder if Vettel needs a great car to perform to his best.. or is it because the car will evolve more towards Vettels style (being the number one driver) as the season progresses?


I view Vettel as a virtuoso musician, who needs a finely tuned violin to show his true class. This doesn't mean that he needs a car which is clearly faster, but a car, which responses well to his driving style. Give him such car and he delivers. About the comparison with the other champions which Dr. Giacomo made, I think that only Alonso might be better and I am not sure really... Lewis also acts immature, I daresay more often than Vettel, Jenson is very smart, but IMO not so fast and Kimi is not as consistent. Michael Schumacher at his prime was much better than all of the, I think. But now he is old and, unfortunately, bitter.

[Zico]

I rate Vettel very highly, when his car is right he is a very determined racer. The two WDC under his belt are evidence he is a very good racer. I just don't know if he is done maturing. He seems to have episodes where he is dicing with the likes of McLaren and makes mistakes. It is hard to put a stigma on a guy who just got done winning two straight WDC's, but I question some of his moves. He is phenomenal when he is out front in clean air just putting along. At Monza last season, or was it 2010 when he reported a loss of power, and Horner or his race engineer said: "stay out were looking at it" (the telemetry) to which Seb ejaculated:
"GUYS, ARE YOU F#CKING KIDDING ME OR WHAT". That may have been an elaborate ploy to let Mark through, but whoever was on the other end of the radio was not very impressed with the comment, and somehow he got full power back after Mark had passed.
Horner is a sneaky little sh!t, but I think it was Vettel being a little panicked and confused with that comment. It may be a little immaturity rearing its ugly head. In short I don't think he is better than Kimi Alonso Hamilton or Button and quite possibly not as good in equal machinery. Plus I think that he has a real fight on his hands because McLaren are close enough to call it even with Red Bull so far. JMHO

I pretty much agree with everything you've said.
He is (unfairly Imo) slated on here quite regularly by one or two individuals. I share their frustration about his past dominance and I may not like his cocky personality much but I do respect him as a driver and for what he has acheived. I'd love to see him become a team mate to any of the four you mention above.. then we would all be able to see just how good or 'average' he actually is.

[Tazio]

Pretty funny comment just after 9 mins

BTW David does actually know a little bit about auto racing, though a little weak in this interview.

Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing is an auto racing team that currently races in the American Le Mans Series and part–time in the IndyCar Series. Based in Hilliard, Ohio, it is co–owned by 1986 Indianapolis 500 winner Bobby Rahal, television talk show host David Letterman, and businessman Mike Lanigan.

The team was established in 1991 as Rahal-Hogan Racing, became Team Rahal in 1994, and was known as Rahal Letterman Racing from May 2004 until December 2010.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlGDQZylT54

[gloomyDAY]

Pretty funny comment just after 9 mins

BTW David does actually know a little bit about auto racing, though a little weak in this interview.

That was a terrible interview. I thought Seabass did a pretty good job of keeping his composure because David Letterman was acting like a jackass. I cringed during most of that interview, but at least we get to see some of Vettel's off-track personality. "...big balls!"

[TheFamousEccles]

^ +1

I guess with a title like "the Llate Show with David Letterman" its all about Dave... ;)

(edited so I can get my facts straight...:rolleyes :)

[CaptainRaiden]

Stuck rubbishes Red Bull conspiracy theory - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/280612/stuck-rubbishes-red-bull-conspiracy-theory/)


Stuck rubbishes Red Bull conspiracy theory

The President of the German motor sport association DMSB, Hans-Joachim Stuck has sent a warning to Red Bull after Sebastian Vettel and Dr. Helmut Marko commented that the safety car was used to stop the German driver from dominating the European Grand Prix in Valencia.

Vettel was leading the race by over 20 seconds, when debris from an accident between Vergne and Kovalainen caused the safety car to be deployed. The German believed the decision was made not just to clear debris but also to “break our neck.”

Red Bull Racing adviser Dr. Helmut Marko agreed with Vettel’s theory.

"Vettel was too far ahead and so the field was brought back together," the Austrian told German television. "Just as they do in American racing."

However Stuck has warned both that accusing the FIA of such behaviour could be seen as “unsportsmanlike conduct.”

“Sebastian Vettel should learn to be a good loser,” Stuck told German Eurosport. “It was clear there was debris on the circuit, representing a danger of puncture to the other cars. For that reason, the safety car was justified.”

[aryan]

I guess with a title like "the Llate Show with David Letterman" its all about Dave... ;)


Late night shows have all had titles like "Tonight's show with XXX" and "Late Night Show with YYY" since 1960s. Hardly David Letterman's fault!

[TheFamousEccles]

Aryan, it was just a little dig. Though my experience of Letterman is that he's not backward about self promotion, and often talks over the top of his guests. But most "Tonight Show" hosts are guilty of that. I usually vote with the remote button and watch something else (though sometimes he has some realy cool bands playing live to air, which is to be applauded as it does'nt happen too often nowdays).

[Big Ben]

keep on talking seb so we can see who you really are....like he wasn't annoying enough with his finger and all the yelling... and the "that's what I'm talking about"... really what was he talking about? I imagine at some point he gathered the entire team and told them the plan... listen up boys.. didn't sleep all night over this.. i figured out what's wrong with the car.. it's not fast enough... you have to build a car that's so fast we'll get all pols and dominate all races... and that was one of the few moments Newey felt quite embarrassed... gee... I wonder how I didn't come up with that idea... so tha's how it happened...a few months later... finger up... IIIIIHHAAAA that's what I'm talking about baby....

[Firstgear]

keep on talking seb so we can see who you really are....like he wasn't annoying enough with his finger and all the yelling... and the "that's what I'm talking about"... really what was he talking about? I imagine at some point he gathered the entire team and told them the plan... listen up boys.. didn't sleep all night over this.. i figured out what's wrong with the car.. it's not fast enough... you have to build a car that's so fast we'll get all pols and dominate all races... and that was one of the few moments Newey felt quite embarrassed... gee... I wonder how I didn't come up with that idea... so tha's how it happened...a few months later... finger up... IIIIIHHAAAA that's what I'm talking about baby....
I still remember laughing after hearing Seb say that. With his accent, he sounded very much like Gru in Despicable Me, "And once I have the moon, the world will give me whatever I want to get it back, and I will be the greatest villain in the world! That's what I'm talking about!"

[Ranger]

Stuck rubbishes Red Bull conspiracy theory - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/280612/stuck-rubbishes-red-bull-conspiracy-theory/)

Helmut Marko lost an eye due to debris on the race track, and still makes accusations of a conspiracy when the Safety Car was called. :\

He's a dead-set ****wit.

Exhibit B:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB8MpgDnDQw

[TheFamousEccles]

Der Helmut,.... I can't think of anything to say that isn't hugely inflamatory or not likely to get me banned from this site. :mad:

Were I JA I would have had the devil's own time not decking him.

[CaptainRaiden]

I still can't believe Marko Hell-Slut and Vettel are being serious blaming the safety car.

Boy, it must be a beautiful world for both of them being in the center of the universe.

They need to learn to become better losers. "Doctor" Marko is proving to be a really bad influence on Vettel. The sooner Vettel gets rid of him, the better for his image.

[AndyL]

The irony that the safety car was caused by the recklessness of one of their own drivers also seems to have escaped them.

[Knock-on]

Bad losers. What a silly thing to say.

[Tazio]

FWIW:
Vettel warned by FIA

Sebastian Vettel has been warned by the FIA, that he should re-consider his manner when not winning.

In 2010 and 2011, Sebastian Vettel´s finger was everywhere and the grin on the young German´s face got wider and brighter, as the titles came closer. But in the face of adversity, Vettel is portrayed as a sulky teen, who hasn´t been allowed to borrow daddy´s car.

Vettel warned by FIA « Formula One Update (http://formulaoneupdate.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/vettel-warned-by-fia/)

[ArrowsFA1]

Vettel warned by FIA
I'm not sure SV's behaviour has anything to do with the FIA unless they're planning to drag out their "bringing the sport into disrepute" rule again.

[TheFamousEccles]

You know, I want to like the guy, he obviously has a sense of humour and is undoubtedly talented, but like Hamilton his petulant attitude is his undoing for me. Maybe if he wasn't so tied up with Marko and was allowed to smell the roses he might be less of a merchant banker at times?

[Zico]

Does everyone on here actualy believe they would remain grounded if they lived in the world of a WDC F1 driver?

Followed by the press, recognised everywhere, surrounded by driven opinionated people, an adoring fan base treating you like a demi-god... wouldn't it be extremely difficult to stop it going to your head? I like to think I'd manage it but in reality I, and the majority on here, would probably turn into class 1 twats also..

...just saying. ;)

[Garry Walker]

I didn't know men menstruated, but bieber proved me wrong. Hey Seb, time to change your tampon and maybe grow a set.


Does everyone on here actualy believe they would remain grounded if they lived in the world of a WDC F1 driver?

Followed by the press, recognised everywhere, surrounded by driven opinionated people, an adoring fan base treating you like a demi-god... wouldn't it be extremely difficult to stop it going to your head? I like to think I'd manage it but in reality I, and the majority on here, would probably turn into class 1 twats also..

...just saying. ;)
It depends so much on how you were raised as a child, how you see the world. Plenty of really talented athletes are actually decent and nice guys, not spoilt. But if you are raised so that you are the king, no surprise.

FWIW:
Vettel warned by FIA

Vettel warned by FIA « Formula One Update (http://formulaoneupdate.wordpress.com/2012/07/02/vettel-warned-by-fia/)

They should ban him for a couple of races.

[gloomyDAY]

I didn't know men menstruated, but bieber proved me wrong. Hey Seb, time to change your tampon and maybe grow a set. :laugh: Nice.

[A FONDO]

"It could be a big lottery just like today with conditions like that," said Vettel. "It will be a tough day. Now it's raining again and it's probably the same weather tomorrow. It will be a long race."

How insolent and ignorant Bieber is. When skilled drivers are at the top of a competition which cant be simulated on computers, the very last word for this is "lottery".

[Dave B]

"It could be a big lottery just like today with conditions like that," said Vettel. "It will be a tough day. Now it's raining again and it's probably the same weather tomorrow. It will be a long race."

How insolent and ignorant Bieber is. When skilled drivers are at the top of a competition which cant be simulated on computers, the very last word for this is "lottery".
Nonsense. When cars are aquaplaning off the circuit there's very little you can do to simulate that. I saw Vettel interviewed after qualifying and he was downbeat but certainly not being insolent.

[jens]

Depends, how the expression of "lottery" is defined. But in a wet race circumstances or 'fortune' certainly play a bigger role than usual.

[A FONDO]

Engineer: "Seb, you are P2, Mark is P1"
Bieber: " :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME MASSA WAS IN FRONT OF ME!
Engineer: " :eek: ???? What was I supposed to say???? :uhoh:

[Zico]

Engineer: "Seb, you are P2, Mark is P1"
Bieber: " :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME MASSA WAS IN FRONT OF ME!
Engineer: " :eek: ???? What was I supposed to say???? :uhoh:

I missed qualy. Would informing him of Massa have made any difference?

[Koz]

I missed qualy. Would informing him of Massa have made any difference?

Nope, I don't remember this laptime but from the replay it looked like Massa was well out of his way.

[steveaki13]

Strange. Seb needs to chill. Starting 2nd with a teammate likely to move over is still a good position. I suppose its just Sebs way. He gets ratty if its not the "Slam". Pole, FL & win

[Triumph]

It's an unfortunate situation for anyone who dislikes Sebastian Vettel. They have almost certainly committed themselves to many years of frustration and disappointment as they have to sit there and watch him succeed.

It's quite likely that he will be a triple world champion at the end of this year, and if that happens then I wouldn't bet against it happening again the year after.

Considering his age and level of success I think we could be looking at the next F1 legend. Michael Schumacher's record could conceivably be surpassed, despite what people say about it never being able to happen again.

I think that this year will be crucial in determining it either way. He could be 'only' a double world champion, then suffer a subsequent lack of success like Alonso, or it could be three championships, a huge level of motivation and momentum, and all of that whilst remaining in a front-running team. The potential is huge.

I would like to see Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso amass championships commensurate with their level of talent, but it's not going to happen if people like Sebastian Vettel keep stealing their chances!

I like Vettel, so I wouldn't mind seeing him win many more times again. I always liked Michael Schumacher, and I see Sebastian Vettel as a worthy Schumacher replacement.

:)

[Triumph]

Yes, I can understand how it could become boring for some, but it hasn't happened for me yet!

I'd like to see Hamilton and Alonso with a few titles each before they retire - especially Hamilton - but Vettel is looking dangerous for the long term, other rivals permitting of course!

:)

[steveaki13]

I don't want to see any driver win year after year because I think it gets boring. I don't mind multiple WDC's over a career but 3,4,5 years in a row just turns people off the sport IMO. The Schumacher era turned me right off and I found myself only catching a few races a year through a lack of interest. I've got my interest back over the past 6 years, but with a combination of TV rights being lost and the same driver potentially dominating for several years, I can see myself giving it a break. I support Hamilton but wouldn't want him to win every year. Its nice to keep the title fight tight and be surprised.

I did keep watching through those years and enjoyed many apects of the racing, but it was not good for F1.

I agree Henners we dont want to see another 3 or 4 title run in a row. PLease let Alonso or somehow Hamilton win this title. Nothing against Seb, he can win the next one. Lets just have a few different winners.

[steveaki13]

Its a big ask but Lewis winning next year in the Merc would be brilliant and would put some of the doubters about his talent firmly in the dark.

That would be great. A decent Mercedes car in which he beats Seb & Fernando would be epic and would make some real history in F1.

I am actually quite excited, although it will be a struggle

[dj_bytedisaster]

The only way to make an open championship happen would be to ban Adrian Newey. It's very rare that he doesn't come up with a brilliant idea - even if it takes him half a season.

[zako85]

The only way to make an open championship happen would be to ban Adrian Newey. It's very rare that he doesn't come up with a brilliant idea - even if it takes him half a season.

This idea gets tossed around on forums every time RBR is clearly on top. Newey was at McLaren in the first half of the last decade, the time when McLaren won no titles at all. Another flawed idea is that "RBR competitors should hire Adrian Newey". It took RBR five years since hiring Newey to win WDC. If I have it correctly, Newey cars haven't won titles from year 2000 through 2009, a 10 year period.

[zako85]

I don't want to see any driver win year after year because I think it gets boring. I don't mind multiple WDC's over a career but 3,4,5 years in a row just turns people off the sport IMO. The Schumacher era turned me right off and I found myself only catching a few races a year through a lack of interest. I've got my interest back over the past 6 years, but with a combination of TV rights being lost and the same driver potentially dominating for several years, I can see myself giving it a break. I support Hamilton but wouldn't want him to win every year. Its nice to keep the title fight tight and be surprised.


That's a natural feeling and it's totally fine to express it on the forums. I have no issues with it as long as this does not degenerate into outright bashing, like we have seen a few times recently. Having said this, one should always be ready to frustrated by F1. Formula 1 is not scripted like a standard Hollywood movie, where there has to be a good end that evokes some kind of a good feeling in the end, making Alonso's, Vettel's, Hamilton's, Button's, Raikkonen's, and Webber's fans happy all at the same time. It would be too Hollywoodesque if every driver who "deserves" a title actually won it, and every one who "deserves" to stay in F1 actually stayed, etc. F1 is kind of like "No Country for Old Men". After I watched that movie, it was amusing to observe people bashing it on discussion forums, primarily because it does not end well for any of the "good" characters.

[tfp]

It's an unfortunate situation for anyone who dislikes Sebastian Vettel. They have almost certainly committed themselves to many years of frustration and disappointment as they have to sit there and watch him succeed.

It's quite likely that he will be a triple world champion at the end of this year, and if that happens then I wouldn't bet against it happening again the year after.



Considering his age and level of success I think we could be looking at the next F1 legend. Michael Schumacher's record could conceivably be surpassed, despite what people say about it never being able to happen again.

I think that this year will be crucial in determining it either way. He could be 'only' a double world champion, then suffer a subsequent lack of success like Alonso, or it could be three championships, a huge level of motivation and momentum, and all of that whilst remaining in a front-running team. The potential is huge.

I would like to see Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso amass championships commensurate with their level of talent, but it's not going to happen if people like Sebastian Vettel keep stealing their chances!

I like Vettel, so I wouldn't mind seeing him win many more times again. I always liked Michael Schumacher, and I see Sebastian Vettel as a worthy Schumacher replacement.

:)

I wouldnt mind so much if Bieber wins this year, because he has actually had to fight for it. The RBR was so good last year his championship was gifted to him on a plate.

[CNR]

Engineer: "Seb, you are P2, Mark is P1"
Bieber: " :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry: WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME MASSA WAS IN FRONT OF ME!
Engineer: " :eek: ???? What was I supposed to say???? :uhoh:

it was a case of thinking that massa was going in to the pits not finishing the lap in front of him

original thought that it was over mark having poll position but it was cleared up in the interview

[kfzmeister]

They all have a whine on the radio. Button does it quite often but because he is generally a nice guy in interviews, he doesn't get criticized so much. Lewis does it and gets slammed and Seb does it occasionally too and we hear murmurs of criticism. I really don't know who some F1 fans think they are when they feel they can dictate how a driver should speak to a colleague in the heat of the moment. Its like we want them to be PR robots all the time or something. They are human and are allowed to lose their temper.

I don't think so. think it's just Seb that whines like that.

[donKey jote]

konkret! :D

[AndyL]

They all have a whine on the radio. Button does it quite often but because he is generally a nice guy in interviews, he doesn't get criticized so much. Lewis does it and gets slammed and Seb does it occasionally too and we hear murmurs of criticism.

Really? It seems to me both Vettel and Button get plenty of criticism for "whining" every time they say something that might be interpreted as such. We are now at 10 pages on this "Vettel showing his real personality" thread by the way. Not what I would call a "murmur".

[Cooper_S]

The more rubbish Mr.West spouts about Vettel the sweeter Seb's wins become.

[Bagwan]

Vettels biggest detractor in any case :)

Hey Garry , you just got the award , so get that index finger in the air !

[wedge]

PS: Button called another driver an idiot and apparently got more abusive which wasn't shown. I admire that because I would have been equally as furious in his position. Contrast that to if Vettel or Hamilton had done the same. See? Some drivers simply get excused.

Compare that to Kimi the Iceman at the 2008 Canadian GP.

[kfzmeister]

PS: Button called another driver an idiot and apparently got more abusive which wasn't shown. I admire that because I would have been equally as furious in his position. Contrast that to if Vettel or Hamilton had done the same. See? Some drivers simply get excused.

Calling a guy an idiot when YOU run into him deserves bashing in my book. :rolleyes:

[kfzmeister]

Kobay was behind Button so its a little difficult to run into someone who is behind you. Basic physics and all that jazz.

I don't have an issue with Button calling Kobes an idiot, rather Vettel calling Nahrain one. ;)

[tfp]

Did I hear seb vet moan when Hamilton overtook him?

[Koz]

Waaaaaa Waaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

[Dave B]

Did I hear seb vet moan when Hamilton overtook him?
"He was too close" is how I heard it. Did he hit you? No. Did he push you off the track? No. Then stop moaning, it's a big boys' game.

[F1boat]

To be honest I was unhappy with the traffic as well. Not that the HRTs and the Caterams did something wrong, but the nature of the track made the traffic bad for the race leader.

[Koz]

"He was too close" is how I heard it. Did he hit you? No. Did he push you off the track? No. Then stop moaning, it's a big boys' game.

And this is a triple world champion...

Was he just crying in the car?

[BDunnell]

"He was too close" is how I heard it. Did he hit you? No. Did he push you off the track? No. Then stop moaning, it's a big boys' game.

Given how penalties seem to be doled out for less, you can understand why a young driver may think that way. I agree, though — it's a ridiculous attitude.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Did I hear seb vet moan when Hamilton overtook him?

Show me a racing driver, who doesn't moan and complain if things don't go his way. How often have we heard Lewis, Button, Alonso and other bitch over the team radio. It's in their genes.

[Koz]

So it was mentioned that Vettel said "Karthikeyan helped you" to Lewis... Anyone wanna confirm this?

[donKey jote]

the Spanish TV donkeys were moaning about the German TV eejuts complaining before the race about all the Spanish junk (meaning HRT) driving in Vettel's way that he'd need to look out for...
looks like they were right :rolleyes: :p

[Dave B]

"He was too close" is how I heard it. Did he hit you? No. Did he push you off the track? No. Then stop moaning, it's a big boys' game.
In fairness the replays show that his radio call was in relation to Karthikeyan, not Lewis, and actually quite justified. I take it back.

[BDunnell]

In fairness the replays show that his radio call was in relation to Karthikeyan, not Lewis, and actually quite justified. I take it back.

Likewise.

[tfp]

Show me a racing driver, who doesn't moan and complain if things don't go his way. How often have we heard Lewis, Button, Alonso and other bitch over the team radio. It's in their genes.

Ive never heard any of the drivers you mention complain that someone is too close, thats what we fans want to see, wheel to wheel action and all!

[F1boat]

Ive never heard any of the drivers you mention complain that someone is too close, thats what we fans want to see, wheel to wheel action and all!

But it was about Narain and not Lewis. When you are lapped you shouldn't be too close.

[Dave B]

I'm convinced that the HRT's either don't have mirrors, or that they're mounted so flimsily that vibrations render them unusable, or (more likely) that the cars are such nightmares to control that the drivers don't have the spare capacity to keep an eye on their opponents. Whenever somebody is blocked, be it in practice, qualifying, or the race, you can virtually guarantee that it's an HRT at fault.

Or Schumacher. :p

[SGWilko]

To be honest I was unhappy with the traffic as well. Not that the HRTs and the Caterams did something wrong, but the nature of the track made the traffic bad for the race leader.

And? It's the same for everyone out there.

[wedge]

Wrong part of the track to get caught in traffic.

Gary Anderson blames car set up:


Think back to Abu Dhabi and the way they set the car up after Vettel's exclusion from qualifying.

Normally, Red Bull run short gears and lots of downforce for the ultimate lap time and try to win from the front.

But in Abu Dhabi they took some downforce off it, changed the gear ratios and gave the car faster straight-line speed so it was easier to overtake. But the lap time was still very strong in spite of that.

I thought they might look at that and compromise a little for this race to keep their options open, give Vettel a set-up that meant if he didn't get pole or got tripped up in the race - as he did - he could still recover with enough straight-line speed to pass people.

But they didn't do that. They were slow on the straight in qualifying, with the DRS overtaking aid open. Hamilton was six km/h faster than them.

In the race, the leader defending his position does not have the use of DRS but the guy chasing him does. DRS gives you about 15km/h so that's a 21km/h advantage in speed for Hamilton, so Vettel was helpless.

BBC Sport - Gary Anderson column: Ferrari getting left behind (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20391729)

[F1boat]

And? It's the same for everyone out there.

Yes, it's the nature of the circuit, but I understand why Seb was frustrated. Such accidents are much more common in series with different classes - Le Mans for example. It is understandable that the drivers might be a little bit frustrated after losing their advantage in traffic.

[truefan72]

Yes, it's the nature of the circuit, but I understand why Seb was frustrated. Such accidents are much more common in series with different classes - Le Mans for example. It is understandable that the drivers might be a little bit frustrated after losing their advantage in traffic.

he was losing his advantage anyway

[Tazio]

Lewis was also hindered in traffic and saw his gain on Vettel lost at one point. That's racing.
Absolutely! It happened early enough in the race that it doesn't seem as important. However I think Seb’s reaction is acceptable, and this criticism is a little nit picky

[steveaki13]

Lewis was also hindered in traffic and saw his gain on Vettel lost at one point. That's racing.

Yep.

I think I recall at least two occasions when each of them lost time in slow traffic. Its just the one occasion was so crucial.

[F1boat]

Ibut I have no doubt whatsoever that Lewis would have passed Vettel by the end of the race.

Well, it is pointless to speculate, although Seb held Lewis well last year in Spain. But this year is different, so you may be right.

[jens]

Having a little rant on the radio is something they all do from time to time and I'm not touchy about it. :)

This sums it up pretty well. Even Kimi, who is regarded as rather calm, was pretty angry at his team in Abu Dhabi in the heat of action.

I don't think there is really much to discuss in this topic. The emotions of all of them can reach a high level in critical situations. Just they express it (frustration, or whatever) in different ways as they are all different personalities. Just all what we have to do is to learn and understand them properly, instead of thinking they are bad persons.

[The Black Knight]

Well, it is pointless to speculate, although Seb held Lewis well last year in Spain. But this year is different, so you may be right.

He drove well but it wasn't miraculous. Lewis just didn't have the traction out of turn 15 to keep up with Seb. He was always so far behind on the straight that there was little hope of passing him. There was no hope of Lewis passing him anywhere else then.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Many people got so worked up about Seb swearing in Abu Dhabi, which somehow was cool when Kimi did it. I think he delivered an ace reply to Bernie's 'lack of charisma' claptrap in the Brazil presser today:



Q : (Marco dell'Innocenti - La Gazzetta dello Sport) Sebastian, Bernie Ecclestone said to the German Bild Zeitung that despite you already having won two titles and maybe now a third, you miss out on charisma, compared to former drivers such as Hunt, Senna, Lauda. And he also said that not only you but all the drivers of your generation are more or less in the same situation, because, he said, teams pampered you too much and the FIA put muscle to you, so you are not free to explain yourselves. What do you think about that? Maybe this is also a general question; if somebody else would like to answer, I would appreciate it.

SV: Well, I think it's a difficult question. I don't know exactly what he said but maybe he was just taking the piss out of... sorry, maybe he was just taking the mickey out of the newspaper which is very possible with Bernie, but given what he said what you just said, I think generally it's difficult. Hopefully I have a little bit left in the sport so I can make up a little bit but also I think these days are very different to the previous days in terms of the freedom that we have. To give you an example, imagine that you find all of us, sitting here on Saturday night having a beer, even if it's just one beer, it would be a massive scene on Sunday. Yeah, unfortunately it's not that easy as maybe it used to be in the past. Last race we were in Austin, in Texas. The last winner in Texas was Keke Rosberg in 1984, I think, and he was having a smoke on the podium. I'm not sure whether people would be too happy with that when they already get excited when sometimes the language is not appropriate after just getting out of the car.

[Donney]

Well said Mr. Vettel!!!!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Bernie has had a couple of digs at Vettel of late. I wonder what went wrong as they appeared to be close friends not so long ago.

Simple. Mr. E. doesn't want a Schmacher-era 2.0. Serial champions are bad for the business :D No, seriously, I think it has more to do with the paper it appeared in. The Bild-Zeitung makes The Sun look like a scientific publication. And he also extended that to all current drivers, which is sheer bigotry, really. They warn the drivers about a single swear word and a few days later accuse them of lacking personality. That's a bad joke. I'm wondering if senility is starting to take Mr. E to the night...

[kfzmeister]

Vettel was asked about his F-word use on the podium and he said that he didn't mean any disrespect, then apologized. Right after that he added that perhaps people should watch Saturday morning cartoons (children's programming). There's no remorse when you immediately follow up an apology with an idiotic comment like that.
This guy is a real clown. Is this something that Schumacher would have done while Vettel was admiring him as a youth. Does he not realize that there are thousands of young boys watching him?
I've watched him on a number of occasions at awards shows and observed what a smart ass he really is, disrespecting show hosts on stage. The list goes on.
That Bernie says he lacks charisma (compelling attractiveness and charm) is not off target at all. He's a good racer. There it ends.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Vettel was asked about his F-word use on the podium and he said that he didn't mean any disrespect, then apologized. Right after that he added that perhaps people should watch Saturday morning cartoons (children's programming). There's no remorse when you immediately follow up an apology with an idiotic comment like that.
This guy is a real clown. Is this something that Schumacher would have done while Vettel was admiring him as a youth. Does he not realize that there are thousands of young boys watching him?
I've watched him on a number of occasions at awards shows and observed what a smart ass he really is, disrespecting show hosts on stage. The list goes on.
That Bernie says he lacks charisma (compelling attractiveness and charm) is not off target at all. He's a good racer. There it ends.

You haven't been to a schoolyard lately have you? What a pathetic claptrap that is! Do you think any youth started drinking because he saw Kimmi fall off the boat, wasted out of his skull? Do you think anyone starts drinking because drivers are seen drinking champaigne from the bottle after every race? Do you think anyone starts swearing because Vettel said '****' on TV or because Kimmi said '****'?
Maybe kids start swearing, because they hear their parents cuss and they might be starting to drink because dad comes home pissed out of his wits every night, right before he beats the crap out of mommy, but certainly not because someone said '****' on TV. How are we supposed to prepare the kids for life if we stage an idealized world for them in TV.

[Zico]

You haven't been to a schoolyard lately have you? What a pathetic claptrap that is! Do you think any youth started drinking because he saw Kimmi fall off the boat, wasted out of his skull? Do you think anyone starts drinking because drivers are seen drinking champaigne from the bottle after every race? Do you think anyone starts swearing because Vettel said '****' on TV or because Kimmi said '****'?
Maybe kids start swearing, because they hear their parents cuss and they might be starting to drink because dad comes home pissed out of his wits every night, right before he beats the crap out of mommy, but certainly not because someone said '****' on TV. How are we supposed to prepare the kids for life if we stage an idealized world for them in TV.


I reckon Vettel is your 'idol', he swore on live TV so you think its alright and fully acceptable.... with total contempt for parents on here who dont want their kids to copy their idols.. heck its even rubbed off into your posts .... and I doubt you are even a kid?

Go figure. ;)

[tfp]

Simple. Mr. E. doesn't want a Schmacher-era 2.0. Serial champions are bad for the business :D No, seriously, I think it has more to do with the paper it appeared in. The Bild-Zeitung makes The Sun look like a scientific publication. And he also extended that to all current drivers, which is sheer bigotry, really. They warn the drivers about a single swear word and a few days later accuse them of lacking personality. That's a bad joke. I'm wondering if senility is starting to take Mr. E to the night...

I can remember Bernie saying how a 3 time world champion is too much right now, and, I did(along with many others) get bored in the ferrari/shoe era.
Youre wondering if he is starting​ to become senile? I think that started about 20 years ago! :D

[Tazio]

He drove well but it wasn't miraculous. Lewis just didn't have the traction out of turn 15 to keep up with Seb. He was always so far behind on the straight that there was little hope of passing him. There was no hope of Lewis passing him anywhere else then.I agree with this. I was sitting at turn 15, and although Lewis was very fast into the turn, in fact 14 as well, he wasn't as fast out of either but it was by a miniscule amount, as I was impressed that both of them took 15 better than anyone else except for maybe Webber. I did have a pretty good view of Lewis making the pass stick at turn 13. Lewis drove very aggressively (as usual) and the duel was a joy to watch. There were a lot of Ferrari and McLaren fans where I was sitting, and both were screaming their heads off for "The Boss" to make the pass. :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

I reckon Vettel is your 'idol', he swore on live TV so you think its alright and fully acceptable.... with total contempt for parents on here who dont want their kids to copy their idols.. heck its even rubbed off into your posts .... and I doubt you are even a kid?

Go figure. ;)

In absence of Garry you seem to have taken over the task to produce the most ridiculous post of the weekend. First of all, I don't have idols. I don't try to be like someone else. I consider that a creepy thought. Why do you accuse me of contempt for parents? I merely said that it is better to let the youngsters experience the world as it is, not as you want it to be. Swearing is part of every human language and no matter how hard you try, your kids will be exposed to the occasional swear word, even if you are living in a country that bleeps out 'inappropriate' language.
I come from a fairly liberal country where swearing on TV isn't bleeped out and I can't say that German kids swear more than those of - let's say - Americaland or Russia or any other country.
Shielding kids from things may actually achieve the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. As I understand for instance, alcohol in public is a serious no-no in Americaland. Buying the stuff in nigh-on impossible before the age of 21. Does that keep people from drinking? Hardly. In fact it leads to things like "21 for the 21st birthday", where youngsters drink themselves to death. Over here you can buy beer from the age of 18 and most youngsters have their first experience with alc much earlier. When I was 14 I decided I'd be a big man and grabbed a few beers at a family reunion. My parents saw it and didn't say a thing. In fact they let me get hopelessly drunk, so that I would 'enjoy' the hangover the next morning in its full beauty. That taught me to know my limit.
Long story short - as with all things, don't try to indoctrinate kids. As long as they have an IQ that surpasses the mental capacities of a loaf of bread, they'll learn on their own. I saw swearing on TV and I saw tobacco adverts as well, but neither did I start swearing like a trucker, because I saw it on TV, nor did I start to smoke, because a camel in sunglasses told me to. It's called 'basic intelligence'.

[kfzmeister]

That's a beautiful story. Der Vettel ist aber immer noch ein Voll idiot! :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

That's a beautiful story. Der Vettel ist aber immer noch ein Voll idiot! :D

Well, you've just disqualified yourself, Einstein. Vollidiot, which by the way is one word, rather than two, means blithering idiot. That's a term, which I usually associate with people, who - how should I say - accuse other people they don't know of idiocy and then misspell it on top of that.
BTW. Could it be that your user name is a wee bit preposterous? To pass the exam for a KFZ-Meister one has to possess the ability to add 1+1 and come up with something other than Eleven.

[kfzmeister]

Ich lach mich kaputt. Du aergerst dich aber wirklich ueber das duemmste Zeug. :D

[donKey jote]

Konkret ! :p

[SGWilko]

Konkret ! :p

Concrete?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Ich lach mich kaputt. Du aergerst dich aber wirklich ueber das duemmste Zeug. :D

The last time I checked this was an international forum. Trolling in German is still trolling.
The only things I get upset about are dimwits and trolls. Since you appear to belong in both groups say 'hi' to my ignore list. Heck, where's Garry when you need him? He's at least fun to argue with...

[F1boat]

My god, you are still arguing about the swearing? Maybe I will leave this forum - this is getting beyond ridiculous.

[jens]

This thread has derailed so badly that I need to play a moderator again and... well, bring this "discussion" to a halt.