Children

[Ian McC]

Seems to me a lot of todays problems stem from how children are brought up. The whole issue of ASBO's really is not solving the problem, if the government spent more time helping new parents out then maybe some children would not grow up out of control.

[nicemms]

ASBOs do nothing. Most of the time they get broken any way.

The government needs to spend time and money on helping parents but then that raises the issue of a nanny state.

[escortg3]

Bring back discipline, the thought of a wack from the headmasters cane kept me inline.

[Donney]

To me the big problem is that most of the new parents need help.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I wouldn't agree with a return to corporal punishment, but I do think there needs to be discipline between parent and child. My father was quite tough with me on occasion, which meant I didn't always like him, but I certainly respected him. A lot of parents want to be their child's best friend, which is perfectly natural, but sometimes you have to be the bad guy.

[BeansBeansBeans]

To me the big problem is that most of the new parents need help.

Is that an offer? If you want to come and look after my daughter for a couple of mornings a week so that I can have a lie-in, that'll be grand :p :

[janneppi]

So the problem really is you(parents) and your parents and how much you suck at being parents, thanks a lot. :)

[A.F.F.]

Can you tell me what is ASBO ?

[Daniel]

Can you tell me what is ASBO ?
Anti-Social Behaviour Order

[Captain VXR]

Chavs like to get ASBOs as a status symbol

[Donney]

Is that an offer? If you want to come and look after my daughter for a couple of mornings a week so that I can have a lie-in, that'll be grand :p :


Eeeeer.... no sorry :p I mean that life is getting more and more family appart and that's a big problem.

[Ian McC]

So the problem really is you(parents) and your parents and how much you suck at being parents, thanks a lot. :)

Can I refer you to the word some in the first post. Looking at some of the hooligans out there you have to think that a lot of the mistakes made have possibly come in the first five years of their lives.

[Schultz]

When your talking about discipline, I don't think a year of compulsary military service after your final year of schooling would be a harsh ask for every kid growing up. Maybe a bit old fashioned in the liberal world we are growing up in, but I think it would do wonders to they latest line of kids who are growing up without disciple because they can get ontop of their parents.

the problem today is that everyone is so worried aboutharming children through punnishments, that in the long term, kids suffer from this lack of discipline. Hell, you can't even touch a kid these days. My friend's mother who is a primary school teacher, has been advised to to straight out say "NO" to the students. Instead they should say "Please XXX, would you put down that stick".

[Ian McC]

Once story that sticks in my mind, someone I know was trying to use a lift, everytime the doors went to close some brat kept pressing the button outside. When they were threatened with a clip round the ear their response was "I'll see you in court"

You hear these stories of people pushed over the limit into taking matters into their own hands because no-one else will do anything. They are the ones that end up in court.

[janneppi]

Can I refer you to the word some in the first post. Looking at some of the hooligans out there you have to think that a lot of the mistakes made have possibly come in the first five years of their lives.
It's not too big of a strech to assume that i wasn't talking about every parent there is on earth is it?

[EuroTroll]

Once story that sticks in my mind, someone I know was trying to use a lift, everytime the doors went to close some brat kept pressing the button outside. When they were threatened with a clip round the ear their response was "I'll see you in court"

You hear these stories of people pushed over the limit into taking matters into their own hands because no-one else will do anything. They are the ones that end up in court.

I'd say that the main problem there is that the judicial systems in many countries (including the UK, especially the US) produce too many sentences that go against common sense.

[LotusElise]

Something needs to be done, but I really don't think that canes in schools or National Service is the answer.
More support needs to be given to working parents, meaning mums and dads, to allow them to spend more proper family time with their children. Our current long-hours working culture in the UK doesn't just mean that parents get less time with their offspring, but also that during the time they do have, they are tired and p***ed off about things and are not in the mood to argue with their kids. Therefore they give in to them for a quiet life.
For more extreme behavioural cases, special schools (or borstals) should be reinstated, so the minority of disturbed, difficult kids can be dealt with properly and not drag others down with them via bullying or peer pressure.
Finally, we need to stop the trend of blaming bad behaviour, or more scarily, any personality trait which means people don't quite "fit in", on a spurious illness or mental condition. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses which can be developed and worked on and should be encouraged to do so.

[fandango]

I wouldn't agree with a return to corporal punishment, but I do think there needs to be discipline between parent and child. My father was quite tough with me on occasion, which meant I didn't always like him, but I certainly respected him. A lot of parents want to be their child's best friend, which is perfectly natural, but sometimes you have to be the bad guy.


Well said :up: I think it comes from guilt at not having enough time to spend with the kids, so they give in easier.

In Spain there's a time bomb waiting to go off IMO: Latin families are traditionally much closer than northern European families, but with parents stretched to the limit paying the mortgage etc, a lot of kids are dropped off early for school, and then don't see their parents for 12 hours. When these kids get to be teenagers they're not going to have much respect for their folks, the ones who've been working away to pay the bills. It's the grandparents who are often holding it all together, which is unfair on them.

What can you do, though? Maybe what families need is just a bit more time and space, simpler lives, less marketing, I don't know....

[BeansBeansBeans]

Well said :up: I think it comes from guilt at not having enough time to spend with the kids, so they give in easier.

There seems to be a change of attitude amongst parents now. It's becoming a bit of a cliched thing to say, but when I was a kid (not that long ago) if I went home and told my parents I'd been punished by the teacher, my parents would give me a telling off. Now, many parents take umbrage whenever a teacher tries to impose discipline. I know a teacher who has been threatened with violence by the father of a child at a parents evening, because their child was under-performing.

[fandango]

Yeah, everyone's so highly strung that they don't think the teacher (or anyone else) might be right. Road rage was just the start.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Yeah, everyone's so highly strung that they don't think the teacher (or anyone else) might be right. Road rage was just the start.

Yes, I do think people are angrier nowadays than ever before.

[Quattroporte]

Is that an offer? If you want to come and look after my daughter for a couple of mornings a week so that I can have a lie-in, that'll be grand :p :


Is she over 18? ;)

[A.F.F.]

The problem here in educational level, schools I mean, is that we integrate the classes due the cost cutting. Therefore we might have an oversensitive child in the same class as hyper-active AD/HD child. Basicly it means the same you put a rapist in the same room with the victim of rapist. The children who doesn't have the room to act as they wish, will do so somewhere else, mainly in a place they feel secure or opposite, hence at home, or in school. Weird isn't it?

There comes another problem. Ther are children with diagnosis and then there are children who are just brought up badly. When ever there comes a child in our institute, the worst his/her papers are, the better he/she has behaved. And these children come straight from the hospital, on psychological side. :confused: Then we have kids who run on the walls and yell like hyenas and come from "normal" homes.

Our place is usually the first place they found the limits.

Many times I have thought the same folks here on this thread earlier. I was raised by a single parent, dad, and sometimes he was rough on me, with a reason I might add now afterwards. And it didn't leave any traumas in me. Not that I know of anyway. Current times feel a little weird sometimes :mark: There should be a respect to elders more.

[Hazell B]

Don't get me started on the evil, twisted, out of control, little bleeders .... :(

When the child is out at night bashing in a car, the parents should be looking at criminal charges for the damage. I would be to blame if my dog bit anyone, so they should be to blame if their kid does damage. The is NO excuse for a parent not knowing what their kid is up to. NONE!

Ten year olds being hit by cars at midnight, 15 year olds being raped outside nightclubs, every year olds causing criminal damage - it's all the parents doing. Not society, not schools, not anybody barring lazy, incompitent parents.

[Daniel]

Don't get me started on the evil, twisted, out of control, little bleeders .... :(

When the child is out at night bashing in a car, the parents should be looking at criminal charges for the damage. I would be to blame if my dog bit anyone, so they should be to blame if their kid does damage. The is NO excuse for a parent not knowing what their kid is up to. NONE!

Ten year olds being hit by cars at midnight, 15 year olds being raped outside nightclubs, every year olds causing criminal damage - it's all the parents doing. Not society, not schools, not anybody barring lazy, incompitent parents.
:up:

Agreed. From what I've seen at school with Caroline teachers do get a lot of stick for problems that parents themselves cause. I guess it's human nature not to want to blame yourself isn't it :crazy:

[Hazell B]

That's the problem, parents never seem to take it on the chin when their kid is in trouble. They blame that 'bad crowd' that nobody ever seems to find parentless and wandering the streets :mark:

Sorry, but long working hours cannot be blamed for parent/child relationships being soured most of the time. The parents of the worst offenders don't have a job. They just sit about all day moaning about the government and society holding them back, then wonder why their children smash up bus shelters at night. The kids of hard working parents are probably more liable to be in the warm, smashing up their own home while their family is at work :laugh:

[Daniel]

That's the problem, parents never seem to take it on the chin when their kid is in trouble. They blame that 'bad crowd' that nobody ever seems to find parentless and wandering the streets :mark:

Sorry, but long working hours cannot be blamed for parent/child relationships being soured most of the time. The parents of the worst offenders don't have a job. They just sit about all day moaning about the government and society holding them back, then wonder why their children smash up bus shelters at night. The kids of hard working parents are probably more liable to be in the warm, smashing up their own home while their family is at work :laugh:
Yes. I know it's terribly judgemental of me but there are certain children at Caroline's school who have certain difficulties be they learning or behaviour related. Just from looking at some of the parents and hearing of their words and behaviour it's fairly obvious to me that parents have far more to do with their childrens behaviour than other students and certainly teachers. It seems that whenever a child isn't nice to another child it's bullying and when a child isn't achieving to their potential it's the teachers fault. Parents seldom seem to see that the real cause of the problem is often themselves and are even less likely to admit it.

[Hazell B]

Parents seldom seem to see that the real cause of the problem is often themselves and are even less likely to admit it.

Having spent several years trailing out to sort behaviour problems in horses, I've never yet met a horse owner who admits they are the one to blame for Neddy's biting, kicking, whatever. Yet they will all, without fail, complain about the children, dogs and horses of other horse owners on the yard. It's human nature. In the end I dispaired and gave in with the (highly paid) job :s

So, as that's my only real experience of behaviour problems, I have to say that a short session with a child behaviourist would help most parents at least begin to see what causes problems. A beginning is all some would need. For the others, a visit to court may do the trick. But the carrot before the stick would be my ideal choice.

[Drew]

I personally think most of the blame lies with how people treat these kids and how the media presents the story.

Most people (kids included) aren't stupid, but only act stupid if you treat them so.

[Daniel]

Having spent several years trailing out to sort behaviour problems in horses, I've never yet met a horse owner who admits they are the one to blame for Neddy's biting, kicking, whatever. Yet they will all, without fail, complain about the children, dogs and horses of other horse owners on the yard. It's human nature. In the end I dispaired and gave in with the (highly paid) job :s

So, as that's my only real experience of behaviour problems, I have to say that a short session with a child behaviourist would help most parents at least begin to see what causes problems. A beginning is all some would need. For the others, a visit to court may do the trick. But the carrot before the stick would be my ideal choice.

But do parents really give two hoots if the problem is themselves and the solution involves them changing? Probably not sadly :( Because we're all perfect and especially so in regards to children we may have. It's always someone elses fault and if someone thinks it's my fault they're an effing this and effing that and they don't like me because I'm poor or something. It's amazing the lengths people will go to avoid solving a problem when the solution can be comparitively easy compared to the problem of dealing with a child with difficulties.

But what do I know? I don't go about knocking up my girlfriend so I can't possibly know anything about parenting ;)

[cosmicpanda]

For the others, a visit to court may do the trick.

Be careful with that sort of thing. A kid took his parents' car out for a spin one night and they disliked it, so they took him to court and he was sentenced to a jail term. In the prison van on the way he got murdered.

A one-in-a-million case, but I bet parents here are less willing to take their children to court as a means of solving domestic disputes now.

[Knock-on]

Something needs to be done, but I really don't think that canes in schools or National Service is the answer.
More support needs to be given to working parents, meaning mums and dads, to allow them to spend more proper family time with their children. Our current long-hours working culture in the UK doesn't just mean that parents get less time with their offspring, but also that during the time they do have, they are tired and p***ed off about things and are not in the mood to argue with their kids. Therefore they give in to them for a quiet life.
For more extreme behavioural cases, special schools (or borstals) should be reinstated, so the minority of disturbed, difficult kids can be dealt with properly and not drag others down with them via bullying or peer pressure.
Finally, we need to stop the trend of blaming bad behaviour, or more scarily, any personality trait which means people don't quite "fit in", on a spurious illness or mental condition. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses which can be developed and worked on and should be encouraged to do so.

I think this is starting to address part of the real problem.

We seem to have a lot of "rights" these days but without the "responsibility" that traditionally goes with them.

When we take your hard working parents that are both out of the house at 07:30 and back again at 19:30, they have no quality time with the child during the week. If they're lucky they get to turn off the light.

Now, I may be a bit unpopular for saying this but it is a lifestyle choice that parents have to weigh up. Do they both want a career, nice house, 2 foreign holidays a year, 2 cars and all the trimmings or do they feel having one of the partners in a more local role where they can have more input into raising the child, helping with their development, homework, meet their friends etc is where they want to be.

Then we have the extended family. The Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins and close family friends. We live more transient lives these days, relocating for work or economic reasons. A lot of families find they are outside of this local support network and don't benefit from the assistance this gives.

Now, this is a pretty good example these days that a lot of parents would like the opportunity to manage. When you take the choice out of the equation and whether it's single parents or parents on low wages, the options may be severely limited and you are having to put in the hours to survive, again with little or no support.

Then we go on again to what is lovingly called the "Chav" populous. These families generally have disposable income and time on their hands but little or no inclination to raise their children with strong values and identifiable boundaries. We have all seen these kids who seem to be aged 8 to 18, dressed like hoodlums or sluts at all times of the evening. They spit, swear, smoke, drink and abuse people. Their parents have no control over them and let them do what they want. They can quote chapter and verse what their Rights are but have never earned those rights because they have no responsibility or accountability.

And the parents wonder how the kids turned out wrong :rolleyes:

Rights should not be a right. They should be earned but they are not. In the old days, you might get a clip round the ear if you were out of line but you rarely got one unless you deserved it. Similarly, respect was earned and with it the benefits and allowances it entailed.

We all have a lifestyle choice as to how we bring our children up. Do we want the latest, greatest, on-demand everything or are we going to invest some of the time we would expend on a career with bringing up our families instead.

[BDunnell]

While I agree that there are big problems nowadays with young people misbehaving and causing a public nuisance, I continue to feel very sorry for the many children who don't cause any problems at all, don't need to be caned/put in the army/learn a bit of respect/put on a curfew (delete as applicable) and get tarred with the same brush as all the ASBO recipients.

[slinkster]

I think there's a bit too much ego and passing the buck when it comes to this... my mum works in a primary school and already there are a mass majority of parents who refuse to believe their children are capable of bullying or being naughty. Instead, they go on the defensive and the child is probably left unpunished. The school is afraid of punishing because of the backlash from parents... it's like neither can win- the only one that does is the child and it's learnt that it can get away with murder and gain an advantage over adults.

It's a joint responsibility to discipline children, but at the end of the day the parents should be imparting the respect for authority that is lacking in many childrens lives... if that's the case, then no school teacher, policeman or judge can make a big difference.

[BDunnell]

It's a joint responsibility to discipline children, but at the end of the day the parents should be imparting the respect for authority that is lacking in many childrens lives

This is my worry about a lot of the discussion on this subject — the idea that children 'lack respect for authority'. I understand where people are coming from when they talk about this, but I would rather that people grew up knowing that some degree of disrespect for authority can be healthy; better, in my view, than slavish obedience of the powers-that-be.

I, for example, don't have much respect for the police and none at all for the Royal Family, yet I don't think I'm a bad citizen because of it and don't go around being anti-social.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Now, I may be a bit unpopular for saying this but it is a lifestyle choice that parents have to weigh up. Do they both want a career, nice house, 2 foreign holidays a year, 2 cars and all the trimmings or do they feel having one of the partners in a more local role where they can have more input into raising the child, helping with their development, homework, meet their friends etc is where they want to be.

Then we have the extended family. The Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins and close family friends. We live more transient lives these days, relocating for work or economic reasons. A lot of families find they are outside of this local support network and don't benefit from the assistance this gives.

Sadly for me and my partner, our parents all live a fair distance from Newcastle (Warrington in my case, Gothenburg and Toronto in my partner's), so we don't have that support network which can be so useful to parents.

In an ideal world, I would like my partner to by a stay-at-home mother, but sadly, after hours of calculations, it appears my salary won't stretch far enough to make that a possibility, and my partner will have to return to work part time in March. Even then, we still won't be able to afford 2 cars, a holiday or many of the trimmings.

We're just going to tighten our belts, and make do with what we can afford, like our parents did, until my career progresses to the stage where we can live on my salary (or Tony Sony signs my band(!)), rather than get into debt.

[Knock-on]

Sadly for me and my partner, our parents all live a fair distance from Newcastle (Warrington in my case, Gothenburg and Toronto in my partner's), so we don't have that support network which can be so useful to parents.

In an ideal world, I would like my partner to by a stay-at-home mother, but sadly, after hours of calculations, it appears my salary won't stretch far enough to make that a possibility, and my partner will have to return to work part time in March. Even then, we still won't be able to afford 2 cars, a holiday or many of the trimmings.

We're just going to tighten our belts, and make do with what we can afford, like our parents did, until my career progresses to the stage where we can live on my salary (or Tony Sony signs my band(!)), rather than get into debt.


That's quite a good solution though. At least one parent is available when the kid needs input and encouragement.

I have a friend that is a single mother and works quite long hours. However, she has angled her career to work from home when possible and has moved away from London closer to where her ex partners family is to have a support framework. She has had to compromise bet works bloody hard to spend as much time with her child as possible.

Yours and her situations don't give me cause for concern. It's when the effort isn't going in and the blame culture takes over that worries me.

[LotusElise]

It doesn't help that there are few or no rewards for those who are struggling, but trying nevertheless. To qualify for government or other agency help, you have to hit rock bottom. To be really effective, any intervention needs to happen before then - before the damage is done.
It's no surprise some people start wondering why they bother. Why should they budget, change their working arrangements etc when the losers across the road gave up long ago and get everything done for them?
IMO failing to bring up children properly, failing to give them the support, discipline and skills they need to be effective adults (or kids!) is child abuse and should be a punishable offence.

[Knock-on]

It doesn't help that there are few or no rewards for those who are struggling, but trying nevertheless. To qualify for government or other agency help, you have to hit rock bottom. To be really effective, any intervention needs to happen before then - before the damage is done.
It's no surprise some people start wondering why they bother. Why should they budget, change their working arrangements etc when the losers across the road gave up long ago and get everything done for them?
IMO failing to bring up children properly, failing to give them the support, discipline and skills they need to be effective adults (or kids!) is child abuse and should be a punishable offence.

Ahhhhh, careful my friend. You will have the Conscience Police beating a path to our door.

A someone who had ten years experience working with the Kids we're talking about, I can think of just one example where a kid went wrong that wasn't directly attributable to the behaviour (read: Abuse) of the parents.

Sometimes, common sense doesn't prevail. In fact, in the bureaucratic nightmare of Social Services (AKA the work prevention department), it rarely does.

[schmenke]

...Now, I may be a bit unpopular for saying this but it is a lifestyle choice that parents have to weigh up. Do they both want a career, nice house, 2 foreign holidays a year, 2 cars and all the trimmings or do they feel having one of the partners in a more local role where they can have more input into raising the child, helping with their development, homework, meet their friends etc is where they want to be.
...

True, but on the other hand a parent has to strike a balance between spending quality time with their children and thinking about their futures. Both myself and the missus work full-time (well, the missus only 4 days per week), but we choose to do so to earn enough to invest in our kid(s)' future. We could probably eke by on my meager wages, allowing the wife to stay at home with the little 'un, but then we would never be able to invest in their futures. Currently, every scrap of our savings is invested in government-sponsored education funds, etc.

Do we own two vehicles and take foreign holidays... No, but this is the sacrifice that we make to allow our kid(s) to hopefully have a better future.

[Bolton Midnight]

Seems to me a lot of todays problems stem from how children are brought up. The whole issue of ASBO's really is not solving the problem, if the government spent more time helping new parents out then maybe some children would not grow up out of control.

More is given now to parents than ever before and I don't notice any upswing in behaviour standards, quite the opposite if anything.

Smacking isn't the answer either.

My thoughts are to put contraception into the mains water supply and if you want a child you have to satisfy certain criteria before you can get bottled water.

Okay I'm a facist I admit it but at least the newborns would be wanted and belong to decent families rather than illeducated scumbag underclass types.

Although our little accident was the best thing that ever happened to me.

[Knock-on]

True, but on the other hand a parent has to strike a balance between spending quality time with their children and thinking about their futures. Both myself and the missus work full-time (well, the missus only 4 days per week), but we choose to do so to earn enough to invest in our kid(s)' future. We could probably eke by on my meager wages, allowing the wife to stay at home with the little 'un, but then we would never be able to invest in their futures. Currently, every scrap of our savings is invested in government-sponsored education funds, etc.

Do we own two vehicles and take foreign holidays... No, but this is the sacrifice that we make to allow our kid(s) to hopefully have a better future.

Unless you're very lucky, there is no perfect answer.

However, your Children are not, I suspect, the ones that are left to their own devises through Laziness or through not having the time to supervise them adequately.

I have a far from perfect situation with my Daughter. Her mother and I are divorced and my Daughter lives with her Mother. I get to see her regularly and I know she is well cared for and happy but the Mother does not choose to set adequate boundaries. Preferring my daughter to have a pretty free reign.

It's funny because it's normally the estranged parent that gets to spoil the children but I find that I tend to be the one instilling values. As you can imagine, it sometimes goes down like a lead balloon with the "Mummy lets me do that" argument but it has really improved her manners and social confidence. OK, she can still be a right little madam but most of the time I'm really proud of the way she behaves.

I was talking to a friend about this the other day and we agreed that our Children look up to us to have all the answers as we did our parents. It's not until you've gone through it that you realised that your parents didn't have a clue just as we're winging it today :D

All you can do is try and the worst crime is not to make the effort.

[Hazell B]

Be careful with that sort of thing. A kid took his parents' car out for a spin one night and they disliked it, so they took him to court and he was sentenced to a jail term. In the prison van on the way he got murdered.

A one-in-a-million case, but I bet parents here are less willing to take their children to court as a means of solving domestic disputes now.

What about the thousands of people facing life without a loved one thanks to joyriders who squashed them before being caught? Forget one in a million - the nutters want jailing.

[Daniel]

What about the thousands of people facing life without a loved one thanks to joyriders who squashed them before being caught? Forget one in a million - the nutters want jailing.
Agree Hazell. But sadly people are in the business of making problems for hundreds/thousands of people just because of an issue for one person. Sad but true.....

[cosmicpanda]

What about the thousands of people facing life without a loved one thanks to joyriders who squashed them before being caught? Forget one in a million - the nutters want jailing.

I do agree that they can be dangerous - I live on a road that joyriders and boy racers come to and this year actually had one crash into a tree outside my mailbox. Trying to walk the dogs with cars doing twice the speed limit howling past is tricky. :p :

So, jail them all? Perhaps. But I'd want to make sure that on the way to jail they don't get murdered.... which isn't too much to ask.

[Hazell B]

I do agree that they can be dangerous - I live on a road that joyriders and boy racers come to and this year actually had one crash into a tree outside my mailbox. Trying to walk the dogs with cars doing twice the speed limit howling past is tricky. :p :

So, jail them all? Perhaps. But I'd want to make sure that on the way to jail they don't get murdered.... which isn't too much to ask.


But that's the point - the part were they're at danger after conviction has zero to do with the crime, does it?

If a kid does damage and is found guilty, it's not the court or person who reported them to blame if they're killed by equally guilty thugs. It's the jail system, which is a whole other subject unrelated to this.

[cosmicpanda]

true.

[Ian McC]

I still think alot of the problems stem from the first five years of a childs life, these days so many people don't have experienced relatives to turn to for advice, there is not the family unit there once was. This is where the support would be best aimed at.

[Hazell B]

Our local community something-or-other officer had a meeting with three of us from my street two days ago. She's basically a person who deals with problems within a neighbourhood, mainly children causing hassle and damage.

To be blunt, she's pointless except for making residents feel better. She admitted she has no powers to speak of, no ability to force children to behave, and that in 99% of cases the parents and children who're causing trouble never turn up at meetings with her when asked. She and the police knew instantly of every single child myself and my two neighbours described, but they have never managed a single charge against any of them. In each case the parents are unemployed or on fake disability payment long term - again unpunished! - and won't accept their children are mini monsters as young as 10 years old.

Perhaps not the norm, but in our case it was depressing hearing what the community officer said. They are attracted to our nice riverbank street because they live in a dead end area, and there's nothing we can do to stop it. :(

[schmenke]

... They are attracted to our nice riverbank street because they live in a dead end area, and there's nothing we can do to stop it. :(

And do your mutts not appear sufficiently menacing to keep the little irksters at bay? :p :

[Hazell B]

No.
The ruddy dogs are frightened of them :(

Do you know, if the children even claim one of my dogs has snapped at them from behind my gates, under new (backdoor, it seems) legislation, I'm looking at a 'two strikes and they're shot' type situation?
The kids already know their legal rights to perfection, so I'm now frightened they hear about this bit.