The humble pie thread

[N4D13]

I'm just opening this thread for those of us who want to have a slice of humble pie after predicting what 2012 would bring in a, well, rather inaccurate manner. After all, the funniest thing about predicting stuff is looking back on what we said and realizing that we weren't even close, wasn't it? ;)

Personally, I must admit that I expected Red Bull to mop the floor with everyone else this season, but so far, it looks like I chose the wrong team to side with! :p

[EuroTroll]

Good thread! :up:

I must confess that when Button went to McLaren, I thought Hamilton would regularly be about 0.5 secs per lap faster than him, and discredit him completely.

I might have been slightly wrong. :erm:

[jens]

I have to say that Williams was faster than I would have ever thought. Perhaps we'll find out if this is track-specific or not. They have been very good at Melbourne in the past as well. :)

[Kevincal]

all the ferrari haters claiming alonso would not get better than 10th

[Tazio]

all the ferrari haters claiming alonso would not get better than 10th
Don't sweat it bro last year Alonso took a 4th. The new tub will get there in time :up: ;)
Long season bra, hang loose

[rjbetty]

I didn't have the courage to predict Hulkenberg > di Resta pre-season. I was swayed by all the di Resta hype. I'm happy that Hulkenberg (who seems more humble) did well. At Williams he always came across to me as someone who could do with some nurturing. And was there any chance of getting that at Williams?

I've been wrong about Ricciardo so far after last season. I predict Vergne to sort him out and take the Red Bull seat, but hope I'm wrong, cos he seems a nicer guy.

I didn't much believe in Sauber for this season, but they look like they might be good. Still wana see if they tumble backwards later on though.

[F1boat]

Pastor surprised me. He is really fast. Owned Bruno.

[jens]

all the ferrari haters claiming alonso would not get better than 10th

Well, to be honest, had many midfield runners not got into trouble during the race, Alonso may well have ended up around 10th. He was one of the few, who basically had a troublefree run in the race. Perhaps in Malaysia we will get a better indication, where does Ferrari lie in comparison to midfield teams.

[ioan]

Pastor surprised me. He is really fast. Owned Bruno.

No surprise there.

[steveaki13]

My humble pie is that I under estimated Maldonado. He looked fantastic until his crazy last lap.

[The Black Knight]

Good thread! :up:

I must confess that when Button went to McLaren, I thought Hamilton would regularly be about 0.5 secs per lap faster than him, and discredit him completely.

I might have been slightly wrong. :erm:

I think most people have underestimated Button but that's because Button underperformed for so many years, something he has openly admitted himself. He has been a surprise to most people. The big advantage to him is that the Pirelli tires require large management and this is something his smooth driving style helps him do a lot. Hamilton on the other hand has a driving style which controls the car on over-steer, and although that is naturally faster he is being hindered by the Pirelli's not being able to cope with it. I don't think Hamilton's woes on Sunday were completely down to tyres though, Button was straight away quicker than him when the tyres were relatively fresh. Despite what Button said on the team radio I don't believe there was any way he was beating Hamilton's qualifying time on Sunday. So, Hamilton is still in general quicker over one lap, no doubt about that, but the current Pirelli's suit Button's driving style more. Button has also been helped over the winter by spending so much time with his engineers, while Hamilton was on holiday recuperating.

Whatever the situation anyway, we all underestimated Button and I'm openly willing to admit that. I'd still choose Hamilton as my driver over him any day of the week. He's the far more versatile driver and can adapt quicker to an unbalanced car. Both are truly world class drivers.

[wedge]

I still think Hamilton is the better driver.

LH pressed the self-destruct button last year.

A lot is made of driving styles, especially Button's. People forget about Canada 2010, China & Germany last year where you couldn't pick a definite winner mid-race and yet LH won mainly by tyre management.

[keysersoze]

Definitely Button. Especially since Lewis was Alonso's equal.

Next may be Massa. I thought he would be closer to FA, but there's something seriously wrong there. IDK, maybe Felipe needs a few more races in the new car.

I've always felt Pastor got too much slagging here. After all, he got into Q3 three times last year, while 10+ GP winner Barrichello was shut out. Pastor dominated GP2 during his championship year. He's good.

I also think Vitaly will eventually prove himself against Kova. Not many here give the Russian a chance against HK.

[truefan72]

Pastor surprised me. He is really fast. Owned Bruno.

yup have to agree on that one.
In fact the whole williams team managed to turn it around.
I actually shouted no! when maldonado crashed at the end.
I really think he should have taken that spot from Alonso though

[pino]

My humble pie is that I under estimated Alonso...he's a lot better than I thought :up: :p :

[Big Ben]

I thought JB would not even come close to LH let alone beat him. Now I can't make up my mind if underestimated Button or overrated Hamilton :p :

[jens]

I still think Hamilton is the better driver.

LH pressed the self-destruct button last year.

A lot is made of driving styles, especially Button's. People forget about Canada 2010, China & Germany last year where you couldn't pick a definite winner mid-race and yet LH won mainly by tyre management.

Why does it make Hamilton the better driver? You bring some examples, where Hamilton came out on top in the intra-team battle, but in the same way there are battles, where Button came out on top. Shall not pick some and dismiss others.

[wedge]

Why does it make Hamilton the better driver? You bring some examples, where Hamilton came out on top in the intra-team battle, but in the same way there are battles, where Button came out on top. Shall not pick some and dismiss others.

Those examples were chosen because of the huge fuss over driving styles.

JYS claimed Prost was the better driver because Prost was smooth yet Jo Ramirez said he thought Senna was the better because perfection was difficult to attain consistently. It is difficult to get the perfect set up for every GP, the balance of the car always changes and so forth.

Therefore JB is hindered just as LH is by their driving styles.

2010 JB's WDC hopes' fell earlier than LH's and I'd put that down to the McLarens faltering at the last third of the season.

LH pressed the self destruct button last year. To Button's credit he is of the calibre to punish those errors. Can't imagine Kovy finishing second in the championship.

[F1boat]

I think that Lewis is a faster driver, but Jenson is smarter, so it is difficult to say who is better.

[scaliwag]

I think most posters are overlooking something important re JB & LH, (temperament), if things don't go LH's way he becomes irritable even petulant,

just look at his demeanor & almost monosyllabic answers during the post race interviews, he obviously let the result get to him, he started on pole & came home third.

Last season there were reports of him having a poor race then shunning his team by hightailing it into the RBR corporate entertainment area where he sort-out C Horner & was seen to have long conversations him, showing once again he is unable to come to terms with a poor result, in short his temperament is one of bad temper & peevishness.

Whereas JB always tends to be smiling no mater what his result, even during his terrible time at Beneton & Honda he never showed irritability or any petulance whatsoever, he always

gave good interviews, constantly praising the team and the effort being put in to improve the car.

It's possible to argue the driving merits of either one LH good at driving by the seat of his pants, or JB's ability to bring his car home in the points, but one thing seems clear to me, if LH gets a poor qualifying position he is much more likely to crash out, or into another car because of his temperament, just look at the number of crashes he's had that have been his fault, the number of times he has been in front of the stewards, then we must take into account his lying statement to the stewards a few seasons ago, all of those things point to a bad temperament.

Regards scaliwag.

[The Black Knight]

I think most posters are overlooking something important re JB & LH, (temperament), if things don't go LH's way he becomes irritable even petulant,

just look at his demeanor & almost monosyllabic answers during the post race interviews, he obviously let the result get to him, he started on pole & came home third.

Last season there were reports of him having a poor race then shunning his team by hightailing it into the RBR corporate entertainment area where he sort-out C Horner & was seen to have long conversations him, showing once again he is unable to come to terms with a poor result, in short his temperament is one of bad temper & peevishness.

Whereas JB always tends to be smiling no mater what his result, even during his terrible time at Beneton & Honda he never showed irritability or any petulance whatsoever, he always

gave good interviews, constantly praising the team and the effort being put in to improve the car.

It's possible to argue the driving merits of either one LH good at driving by the seat of his pants, or JB's ability to bring his car home in the points, but one thing seems clear to me, if LH gets a poor qualifying position he is much more likely to crash out, or into another car because of his temperament, just look at the number of crashes he's had that have been his fault, the number of times he has been in front of the stewards, then we must take into account his lying statement to the stewards a few seasons ago, all of those things point to a bad temperament.

Regards scaliwag.

Straw-men all over that one. I don't even know where to begin really.

[scaliwag]

then don't

[wedge]

I don't have much of a problem with temperament.

For sure it has cost him in races and a WDC.

I don't have a problem outside a race car. At this level they're in it to win it. Lots of sportsmen/women admit they're sore losers.

JB has had his moments of anger and frustration. And what about the debacle over joining Williams? Nobody put a gun to JB's head, he just thought he would be better off at Williams just as Hamilton courting RBR would give him a WDC winning car.

[F1boat]

I think most posters are overlooking something important re JB & LH, (temperament), if things don't go LH's way he becomes irritable even petulant,

just look at his demeanor & almost monosyllabic answers during the post race interviews, he obviously let the result get to him, he started on pole & came home third.

Last season there were reports of him having a poor race then shunning his team by hightailing it into the RBR corporate entertainment area where he sort-out C Horner & was seen to have long conversations him, showing once again he is unable to come to terms with a poor result, in short his temperament is one of bad temper & peevishness.

Whereas JB always tends to be smiling no mater what his result, even during his terrible time at Beneton & Honda he never showed irritability or any petulance whatsoever, he always

gave good interviews, constantly praising the team and the effort being put in to improve the car.

It's possible to argue the driving merits of either one LH good at driving by the seat of his pants, or JB's ability to bring his car home in the points, but one thing seems clear to me, if LH gets a poor qualifying position he is much more likely to crash out, or into another car because of his temperament, just look at the number of crashes he's had that have been his fault, the number of times he has been in front of the stewards, then we must take into account his lying statement to the stewards a few seasons ago, all of those things point to a bad temperament.

Regards scaliwag.

Good observations!

[The Black Knight]

I think Horner may disagree with you on that one. I haven't read a post on here so full of generalisations and exaggerations as yours in a long while. Thanks though, really brightened my day. :)

Likewise. I was reading it with a lot of disbelief and yet it was quite an inspirational example of what one could only refer to as sensationalism. I bet Sky News has something to do with this...

[ioan]

Straw-men all over that one. I don't even know where to begin really.

Start from the beginning, though in the end you'll have to admit that scali was right.
Unless the straw man is Lewy, that I will concede.

[scaliwag]

Good observations!

Thanks for that f1boat, I recall one of my favorite drivers of yesteryear having a similar problem (N Mansell) he to could drive by the seat of his pants

however if things weren't going his way he would be very petulant, which turned many of the Williams team against him, I believe he was sidelined by Ferrari for that

very same reason.

Regards scaliwag.

[SGWilko]

Last season there were reports of him having a poor race then shunning his team by hightailing it into the RBR corporate entertainment area where he sort-out C Horner & was seen to have long conversations him,

Sniff, sniff. Can anyone else smell that? What is it, dogs, cats, oh, wait, its Bull's ****!

Don't believe everything the press tell you........

[SGWilko]

Thanks for that f1boat, I recall one of my favorite drivers of yesteryear having a similar problem (N Mansell) he to could drive by the seat of his pants

however if things weren't going his way he would be very petulant, which turned many of the Williams team against him, I believe he was sidelined by Ferrari for that

very same reason.

Regards scaliwag.

And yet, the very same WIlliams team hired him a second time around......

Can't think why, were they coin flipping that day?

[wedge]

And yet, the very same WIlliams team hired him a second time around......

Can't think why, were they coin flipping that day?

Because Jean Alesi signed for Ferrari and Mansell demanded to be #1 driver.

For sure Mansell was difficult to work with but that's the way he worked to be the best he could be hence he demanded Williams not to use team orders despite the dirty tricks Piquet used.

Tom Walkinshaw was another man who was, shall we say, difficult to work with but it never stopped TWR from being a successful and 'respected' outfit.

[rjbetty]

And yet, the very same WIlliams team hired him a second time around......

Can't think why, were they coin flipping that day?

I can't think why Williams ever signed him again either... :p

btw I'm trying out a slice of Daniel Ricciardo humble pie. I've not ever rated him massively highly, especially after last year when he didn't demolish Liuzzi in the way Red Bull thought he would. But I hear he was 3rd or 4th fastest man at some points in the race. He recovered from pitting for a new nose on lap 1 to score in 9th.

The way he described his move to take position from his team-mate really impressed me:

"Jean-Eric was in front of me and he covered into 13, so I knew that maybe I could get a switchback. I dropped back to second gear, I think he was in second as well and we both came out of the corner sideways. I managed to get a better run and hold on to the place."

In general, his whole attitude has really impressed me actually. I'm positive this guy will win races.

However, I feel he can reach the standard of Mark Webber, which is brilliant, but maybe not quite enough to win the championship. I feel that Red Bull have already made up their mind that it will be Vergne who gets the drive...

[scaliwag]

And yet, the very same WIlliams team hired him a second time around......

Can't think why, were they coin flipping that day?

SGWilko, I don't usually reply to adhominen attacks, if you want to write and debate temperament please do, and I will do my up-most to respond, but for you and the other posters who attack me, rather than debate, I'll ask you a question=have you ever met and talked to Nigel?

The reason I ask is because I have, I met and talked to him at a Beachdean do (that was his sponsor for his and his son's le mans attempt a couple of years

ago), he freely admitted his irascible nature during his F1 time at Williams & Ferrari, because in his words "I couldn't understand why the mechanic's and the team didn't match my ambition"

Nigel, just like LH was a superb driver, in LH's case IS a superb driver, however that does change the fact that both of them had and have an Achilles heal, (TEMPERAMENT)

Regards scaliwag

[SGWilko]

SGWilko, I don't usually reply to adhominen attacks, if you want to write and debate temperament please do, and I will do my up-most to respond, but for you and the other posters who attack me, rather than debate, I'll ask you a question=have you ever met and talked to Nigel?

The reason I ask is because I have, I met and talked to him at a Beachdean do (that was his sponsor for his and his son's le mans attempt a couple of years

ago), he freely admitted his irascible nature during his F1 time at Williams & Ferrari, because in his words "I couldn't understand why the mechanic's and the team didn't match my ambition"

Nigel, just like LH was a superb driver, in LH's case IS a superb driver, however that does change the fact that both of them had and have an Achilles heal, (TEMPERAMENT)

Regards scaliwag

I am sorry you think I am attacking you.

[wedge]

Nigel, just like LH was a superb driver, in LH's case IS a superb driver, however that does change the fact that both of them had and have an Achilles heal, (TEMPERAMENT)

As does Button

All very well singing high praises of JB on not forget/recognise his Achilles heal (sic :D ).

[scaliwag]

Sniff, sniff. Can anyone else smell that? What is it, dogs, cats, oh, wait, its Bull's ****!

Don't believe everything the press tell you........

That post is not debate, it's an attack, it has nothing to do with the subject and everything to do with denigration.

Regards scaliwag.

[SGWilko]

Who is it an attack on exactly? I can't see anything personal of offensive in what was written. Or have posts been deleted? :confused:

Nothing deleted. I suggested the 'Hamilton meets with Red Bull' reports scaliwag referred to were bullpoop, and all of a sudden I am attacking.

[donKey jote]

nom nom sweety pie Alonso :p

[F1boat]

I eat it with pleasure! Bravo Fernando!

[Mia 01]

Must admit that I never thought that Ferrari would win a race so early in the season.

[donKey jote]

Must admit I never thought they'd win a race at all this season :p

[F1boat]

Must admit I never thought they'd win a race at all this season :p

:D Serves us right, to underestimate Fernando... and the Scuderia. They always win a race, since 1994, I think.

[jens]

Must admit that I never thought that Ferrari would win a race so early in the season.

My thoughts too. I was open to the possibility of Ferrari winning later in the year, but not now. And I thought the handling of the car would be even worse in the wet. :)

But regardless I still think there are some serious deficiencies with the F2012. Although it depends on conditions and circuits, how evident they are. As we remember, in early 2009 McLaren wasn't doing too badly in Australia and Bahrain with 4th place finishes, but circuits like Barcelona, Istanbul and Silverstone showed the huge aerodynamic deficit the car had. So far in 2012 Ferrari hasn't been doing too badly, but we may yet to see races, where they (even Alonso) are literally nowhere.