Mercedes "F-duct" 2012-style

[AndyL]

So apparently Mercedes have an F-duct type mechanism that takes air from the rear wing and uses it to stall the front wing. It's activated by the DRS:

Mercedes: F-Duct Front Wing operated by the Rear Wing DRS | Scarbsf1's Blog (http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mercedes-f-duct-front-wing-operated-by-the-rear-wing-drs/)

And Charlie's happy that it's legal... he acknowledges that it's activated by the activation of the DRS, but says "...it is completely passive. There are no moving parts in it; it doesn’t interact with any suspension. No steering, nothing. Therefore I cannot see a rule that prohibits it."

The paddock buzz in MelbourneJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/the-paddock-buzz-in-melbourne/)

Looks like some clever work by Ross Brawn's team. No doubt the other teams will have their rule book lawyers scrutinising it already, and I think you could make a decent argument against it based on rule 3.15. But it seems Mercedes will get to use it for a while at least, could be a useful advantage for them in qualifying.

[The Black Knight]

So apparently Mercedes have an F-duct type mechanism that takes air from the rear wing and uses it to stall the front wing. It's activated by the DRS:

Mercedes: F-Duct Front Wing operated by the Rear Wing DRS | Scarbsf1's Blog (http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/mercedes-f-duct-front-wing-operated-by-the-rear-wing-drs/)

And Charlie's happy that it's legal... he acknowledges that it's activated by the activation of the DRS, but says "...it is completely passive. There are no moving parts in it; it doesn’t interact with any suspension. No steering, nothing. Therefore I cannot see a rule that prohibits it."

The paddock buzz in MelbourneJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/the-paddock-buzz-in-melbourne/)

Looks like some clever work by Ross Brawn's team. No doubt the other teams will have their rule book lawyers scrutinising it already, and I think you could make a decent argument against it based on rule 3.15. But it seems Mercedes will get to use it for a while at least, could be a useful advantage for them in qualifying.

How exactly? As Whiting said, it is completely passive. F-Duct was never banned, only driver movements which alter the aerodynamic characteristics of the car. DRS is legal. Mercedes simply put in a system that takes advantage of this. It's innovation, something we're seeing less and less of, and I see nothing wrong with it. Neither do the FIA apparently. It's completely within the rules.

[AndyL]

How exactly? As Whiting said, it is completely passive. F-Duct was never banned, only driver movements which alter the aerodynamic characteristics of the car. DRS is legal. Mercedes simply put in a system that takes advantage of this. It's innovation, something we're seeing less and less of, and I see nothing wrong with it. Neither do the FIA apparently. It's completely within the rules.

A rival team's rule book lawyer might look at this paragraph of 3.15:


With the exception of the parts necessary for the adjustment described in Article 3.18, any car system, device or procedure which uses, or is suspected of using, driver movement as a means of altering the aerodynamic characteristics of the car is prohibited.

"Yes, DRS is legal. But the ducting in this system is not part of the DRS, and is not necessary for it. It does alter the aerodynamic characteristics of the car when activated by the driver. The activation is indirect, via the legal activation of the DRS, but that's splitting hairs. Ultimately the driver presses a button and as a result makes air pass through the duct."

[ioan]

The driver also uses the accelerator. the brakes and the steering wheel, all these actions alter the car's configuration.

[AndyL]

The driver also uses the accelerator. the brakes and the steering wheel, all these actions alter the car's configuration.

Yes, as with most of F1's rules, this one clearly can't be interpreted absolutely literally, but of course that doesn't mean it can't be interpreted at all.
There's a spectrum of situations here. Steering and braking affect the aerodynamics of the car, in fact it's impossible to avoid. But at the other end of the spectrum, imagine an F-duct system that somehow worked off pressure generated by the drink bottle pump, so every time the driver took a drink the front wing was stalled - that seems most likely illegal. What Mercedes are doing is somewhere between those two. I'm sure teams will be making representations to the FIA about where in that spectrum they think this falls.

[N4D13]

I'm pretty sure that Mercedes' design is legal. Yes, DRS is a movable device, but it is meant to be so, and it is the only moving part of the car which has an influence on their F-duct system. I don't see how they could ban Mercedes' F-duct without banning DRS altogether.

I'm sure many people would like to see Merc's F-duct banned if it meant the end of DRS, though. :p

[Zico]

The Mercs already had superb top speed performance last year, I'm left wondering if this front F-duct is actually new for this year? If it is and no-one else has copied it yet they could be the team to beat in Oz.


Technicaly its a clever solution but Is it within 'the spirit of the rules' ? Thats the FIA's get-out clause for banning anything they dont like. :(

[VkmSpouge]

I like this innovation by Mercedes, some very clever thinking on their part.

[f1bettings]

Great engineering work on Mercedes and must have been tough to keep this quiet until arriving at Melbourne.

Funny to hear Red bull cry foul when the last 2 years everyone else wasn't happy with the EBD

[Zico]

Great engineering work on Mercedes and must have been tough to keep this quiet until arriving at Melbourne.

They didn't manage to keep it quiet, the rumour was reported on a few websites at the end of last season iirc. Its surprising that McLaren dont have any issue with the Mercedes idea... makes you wonder if they have their own version.

[Knock-on]

Horner has his knockers in a twist.

Red Bull, Lotus seek final ruling on Mercedes' rear wing ahead of Malaysian Grand Prix weekend - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98184)

Touching to see how concerned he is for the smaller teams ;)

[AndyL]

Its surprising that McLaren dont have any issue with the Mercedes idea... makes you wonder if they have their own version.

Several people on this thread have the view that it's clearly within the rules, so it could just be that McLaren agree with them and feel protesting is pointless.

Also possible that they like the idea of Mercedes starting the season with a car as fast as Red Bull's.

[airshifter]

Personally I'm surprised it hasn't been deemed an illegal system. I can't see how Charlie Whiting sees it as a passive system. It's only passive if the driver doesn't hit a certain button. ;)

But regardless of what the FIA rules, they shouldn't wait. If legal other teams will want to use it as soon as possible, if illegal Mercedes shouldn't have to risk race result points to find out.

[Knock-on]

Personally I'm surprised it hasn't been deemed an illegal system. I can't see how Charlie Whiting sees it as a passive system. It's only passive if the driver doesn't hit a certain button. ;)

But regardless of what the FIA rules, they shouldn't wait. If legal other teams will want to use it as soon as possible, if illegal Mercedes shouldn't have to risk race result points to find out.

I think it's a great piece of innovation and should stand. The device itself doesn't move or be operated directly by the driver, it's just a duct. If it wasn't for the artificially introduced DRS then it wouldn't be there.

All teams work out there aero package arround the effect of DRS and this is no different. You might just as well argue that exhaust gasses must exit 2 meters into the sky to stop them having an aero effect on the car when the driver depresses the accelerator.

[wedge]

Horner has his knockers in a twist.

Red Bull, Lotus seek final ruling on Mercedes' rear wing ahead of Malaysian Grand Prix weekend - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98184)

Touching to see how concerned he is for the smaller teams ;)

It's the games often played in the backdrop of the racing.

Weren't RBR against the double diffusers because they wanted to keep their advantage if it was banned?

[airshifter]

I think it's a great piece of innovation and should stand. The device itself doesn't move or be operated directly by the driver, it's just a duct. If it wasn't for the artificially introduced DRS then it wouldn't be there.

All teams work out there aero package arround the effect of DRS and this is no different. You might just as well argue that exhaust gasses must exit 2 meters into the sky to stop them having an aero effect on the car when the driver depresses the accelerator.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's brilliant engineering and don't mind at all if it stands. But just like the DRS it requires a push of a button by the driver to work. To me that alone makes it an active system.

[odykas]

Lets see what this mechanism can deliver first.

Sepang's long straights will be a good test ;)

[The Black Knight]

A rival team's rule book lawyer might look at this paragraph of 3.15:



"Yes, DRS is legal. But the ducting in this system is not part of the DRS, and is not necessary for it. It does alter the aerodynamic characteristics of the car when activated by the driver. The activation is indirect, via the legal activation of the DRS, but that's splitting hairs. Ultimately the driver presses a button and as a result makes air pass through the duct."

It's another way to look at it but Mercedes can blow a hole in it straight away if they can show any bit of air is seeping into the F-Duct at all while the wing is closed. But I still wouldn't buy that argument even if there wasn't. It's part of the design of the car and F-Ducts aren't banned. They are simply putting an F-Duct in a place which takes advantage of legal rules. I'd be very disppointed if the FIA ruled it illegal.

[ioan]

The FIA says it's legal:

FIA rejects claims that Mercedes's rear wing is illegal - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98248)

[airshifter]

In yet another brilliant move, the FIA declare a device "passive" when in reality it requires driver input of an active device to activate it.

Now all the teams will start using similar devices, and at some point the FIA will declare some or all of them illegal due to the fact the driver has to push a button.

The end result will once again be brilliant engineering tossed into the scrap bin, and yet more money poured into development to gain the time and advantage back once again. A forward thinking team would develop wings both with and without the ducts so that they aren't behind the curve once the FIA ban the device.

[SGWilko]

All the FIA have to do is make Mercedes remove the part of the wing that covers the duct when DRS is not enabled in order to declare it legal. ;)

[airshifter]

All the FIA have to do is make Mercedes remove the part of the wing that covers the duct when DRS is not enabled in order to declare it legal. ;)

But then they would have to adjust flow to have a single stage flow setup, and the advantage would be gone. That advantage being the one that happens when the driver pushes the button and activates the "passive" system. :laugh:

I do really appreciate the innovation and engineering behind such things, but I fear that as usual the FIA is simply opening up the proverbial can of worms that will soon flow all over the field. At which point the Angry Bird FIA will gobble them up. :)

[Zico]

Looks like the FIA are gonna ban it after a rethink.. :(

BBC Sport - FIA re-assessing controversial Mercedes wing system (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17588028)

[EuroTroll]

Team principal Ross Brawn said at the Malaysian Grand Prix: "We call it the DRS, because that's all it is. The purpose of the DRS is to improve overtaking and that's what we're trying to do."

I think that's a little disingenuous, considering what an advantage they get from it in qualifying.

I don't really mind what the decision is, so long as they now make it final. Finally final.

PS. Happy birthday, Zico! :cool:

[airshifter]

Looks like the FIA are gonna ban it after a rethink.. :(

BBC Sport - FIA re-assessing controversial Mercedes wing system (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17588028)

The article just states they are taking another look. They won't ban it until other teams have spent huge amounts of money developing the system for their cars. After everyone has it near perfection then they will ban it.

[i_max2k2]

Looks like the FIA are gonna ban it after a rethink.. :(

BBC Sport - FIA re-assessing controversial Mercedes wing system (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17588028)

And they still think its legal

F1: FIA still believes Mercedes F-duct legal | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-still-believes-mercedes-f-duct-legal/)

[AndyL]

And they still think its legal

F1: FIA still believes Mercedes F-duct legal | News | Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia-still-believes-mercedes-f-duct-legal/)

So now the other teams will start coming up with more and more extreme variations on the same principle, until eventually the FIA decides it's all gone too far and bans the lot of them.