2012 Australian Grand Prix Thread - Official

[steveaki13]

I could not wait any longer, it must be time to open up the first Race thread of the season and start discussing the season opener.

So who do you think will be fast at Albert Park?
Who will falter?
Which rookies will shock us? and which will dissapoint?

And how will the race go?

What do you think. I can't wait.

[steveaki13]

Crazy predicition....

We will see 9 finishers only.

With Carterham scoring their 1st point.

[Zico]

My crazy predictions..

Vettel bogs down at the start then wipes out Rosberg and Alonso at the first corner.. The Merc looks very quick, Schumacher leads for most of the race until he has a gearbox problem and falls back. Fellipe clashes with Lewis again and limps home last..

1. Button
2. Webber
3. Hamilton
4. Di Resta
5. Schumacher
6. Kimi

[N4D13]

According to Formula1.com, there's a chance of rain on Friday and Sunday. What about waiting until Malaysia to find out the pecking order?

Anyway, from what I've seen on various sites, rain doesn't seem to be very likely. But I'd be great to have a wet race in Oz - something like the 2011 Canadian GP again.

[EuroTroll]

I think Webber will cock it up at his home GP, as usual. :p : On the other hand, I think Kimi will pleasently surprise us all with a podium finish.

[schmenke]

Apologies for sounding like a prude, but having followed the sport for over 20 years, I have never before felt such a lack of anticipation and enthusiasm for a season opener :dozey: .

[EuroTroll]

Apologies for sounding like a prude, but having followed the sport for over 20 years, I have never before felt such a lack of anticipation and enthusiasm for a season opener :dozey: .

Why is that?

[jens]

How will the race go? Well, looking at the past we can have a relatively calm race without much happening (2004, 2007, 2011) or a more chaotic race, which can bring us even a slightly unexpected race order. Hard to predict, which one will it be this time.

Looking at some trends at Albert Park, I'm wondering whether Webber is finally able to actually beat his best result so far (5th), achieved in Minardi! :p : Last year he was just slow, on other occasions has had an accident (09, 10) or a car problem (06) preventing him from getting higher.




So who do you think will be fast at Albert Park?

Hmm... let's say a Vettel-Hamilton front row. If qualifying is wet, Button may well end up on top of the timesheets too, which would make Sunday more exciting. From my recollection Rosberg has often been a factor at Albert Park, especially if there is attrition. Finished on the podium in 2008, was a contender in 2009 before tyres fell apart. So if Mercedes is good and there is some mess in the race, he is my tip for a lower podium spot.

I remember, how last year Sauber achieved an impressive result (until DSQ!) with a good strategy. Perhaps particularly Pérez can get some points - even if he doesn't qualify into Top10, he would improve in race trim.

Melbourne could be one of the better chances for Caterham to open its point-score. On average Albert Park tends to offer more retirements and messier races than many other circuits. Also teams/drivers are still 'green' and more prone to mistakes after freshly starting a new season.


Who will falter?
Webber is the safest bet! :p : Also I must add that Michael Schumacher has lost his front wing in Turn 1 for two years in a row. So this is something he must watch out for really carefully this time!


Which rookies will shock us? and which will dissapoint?
Although not a complete rookie, Grosjean to get into Q3, especially if Lotus is as good as expected. It would be really impressive if he can qualify into Top6! Looking forward to it though. :) Still remembering, how Petrov qualified 6th last year and went on to do even better in the race, forcing F1 world take notice.

Hülkenberg can give a good comeback impression as well, also Q3 and points contention.

[schmenke]

Why is that?

My enthusiasm for the sport has waned considerably in the last couple of years, mostly due to a variety of reasons:

Primarily because of the direction that the technical regulations have taken, introducing gimmicks in an effort to enable a more exciting “show”. Introducing the flappy rear wing to ease overtaking was the last straw for me. A purist at heart, I prefer to see drivers showcase their skill and experience on track and not having to rely on artificial gimmicks to provide contrived superiority over other drivers.

Every season I used to crave the new technological advances conceived and implemented by teams. This is (was?) a very big attraction of F1 to me. However, over the years the suppression of technical innovation has led to an almost “spec” sport. Severe restraints on car design, components, engine homologation, etc. have all limited innovative designs. I cringe now ever time a team manages to introduce a new techno-tidbit other teams cry foul and the FIA quickly declare it illegal :s .

The elimination of tire wars has contributed to more stale racing. Previously, a variety of tire manufacturers, not to mention tire selection, allowed for diversity in race setups and strategies, increasing the overall racing excitement.

New venues with sterile circuits diminishes the attraction to me, especially the proliferation of street circuits which I find provide little visual stimulation.

Although I likely will maintain a minimal interest, I foresee this season the culmination of my tedium with the sport :mark:

Sigh... you asked studiose :p :

[EuroTroll]

Sigh... you asked studiose :p :

I did indeed. :) And I agree with most of your criticism. Nevertheless, I find myself more excited than in a good long while at the prospect of watching F1 again. :cool: Don't know why.

[DexDexter]

My boring predictions are:

1.Vettel
2. Webber
3. Hamilton
4. Button
5.Rosberg
6.Schumacher
7. Kimi
8 Di Resta
9.Hulkenberg
10. Kobayashi


DNF- Alonso, collides with Grosjean
DNF- Massa, spins out.
DNF- Petrov, collides with Maldonado

[driveace]

Lewis has been in Sydney today racing a Go-Cart with young kids.No one could get anywhere near him !

[Knock-on]

The Red Bull is the fastest car but Seb gets mugged by Lewey at the start. He tries to fight bck but fluffs under the pressure.

Britney hands the Shoe his ass on a plate yet again and Kimi puts in a solid performance but retires or crashes out.

[odykas]

How long can Lewis stay on track?
This is the question :p :

[F1boat]

It will be Sebastian or Lewis. These are the two fastest drivers in the two fastest cars. Jenson will score 3rd IMO. The rest will be behind these three guys.

[wedge]

My enthusiasm for the sport has waned considerably in the last couple of years, mostly due to a variety of reasons:

Primarily because of the direction that the technical regulations have taken, introducing gimmicks in an effort to enable a more exciting “show”. Introducing the flappy rear wing to ease overtaking was the last straw for me. A purist at heart, I prefer to see drivers showcase their skill and experience on track and not having to rely on artificial gimmicks to provide contrived superiority over other drivers.

Every season I used to crave the new technological advances conceived and implemented by teams. This is (was?) a very big attraction of F1 to me. However, over the years the suppression of technical innovation has led to an almost “spec” sport. Severe restraints on car design, components, engine homologation, etc. have all limited innovative designs. I cringe now ever time a team manages to introduce a new techno-tidbit other teams cry foul and the FIA quickly declare it illegal :s .

The elimination of tire wars has contributed to more stale racing. Previously, a variety of tire manufacturers, not to mention tire selection, allowed for diversity in race setups and strategies, increasing the overall racing excitement.

New venues with sterile circuits diminishes the attraction to me, especially the proliferation of street circuits which I find provide little visual stimulation.

Although I likely will maintain a minimal interest, I foresee this season the culmination of my tedium with the sport :mark:

Sigh... you asked studiose :p :

Technology has mostly taken the purity out of driving a thorough race car for what are supposedly some of the world's best drivers.

I'm all for competition but tyre wars have a tendency to distort the competition.

Quite frankly the consensus is that Pirelli's deliberately soft compound have created better racing and DRS exaggerating things.

Ultimately its about the drivers and the cream rises to the top. The arguably the right deck of cards have been handed out: 2010 was arguably one of the greatest seasons of all time and the driver line for 2012 is similar (Kubica MIA). How can one not be excited?

[The Black Knight]

My enthusiasm for the sport has waned considerably in the last couple of years, mostly due to a variety of reasons:

Primarily because of the direction that the technical regulations have taken, introducing gimmicks in an effort to enable a more exciting “show”. Introducing the flappy rear wing to ease overtaking was the last straw for me. A purist at heart, I prefer to see drivers showcase their skill and experience on track and not having to rely on artificial gimmicks to provide contrived superiority over other drivers.

Every season I used to crave the new technological advances conceived and implemented by teams. This is (was?) a very big attraction of F1 to me. However, over the years the suppression of technical innovation has led to an almost “spec” sport. Severe restraints on car design, components, engine homologation, etc. have all limited innovative designs. I cringe now ever time a team manages to introduce a new techno-tidbit other teams cry foul and the FIA quickly declare it illegal :s .

The elimination of tire wars has contributed to more stale racing. Previously, a variety of tire manufacturers, not to mention tire selection, allowed for diversity in race setups and strategies, increasing the overall racing excitement.

New venues with sterile circuits diminishes the attraction to me, especially the proliferation of street circuits which I find provide little visual stimulation.

Although I likely will maintain a minimal interest, I foresee this season the culmination of my tedium with the sport :mark:

Sigh... you asked studiose :p :



Pretty much agree with all your post here. Now the FIA have informed us that the stupid DRS zone for this race is going to be on the pit straight and on the little straight on the run down to turn 3 as well. There will be one activation point at turn 14 so if a guy gets passed on the pit straight there is no hope for him to fight back. It's utterly retarded in my opinion. I wish they would throw DRS out.

[schmenke]

Technology has mostly taken the purity out of driving a thorough race car for what are supposedly some of the world's best drivers....

With all due respect, you are missing the point of F1, as I fear, are many current fans.

Technology is (at least was) integral to the sport. It’s what sets it apart from all other racing series.
F1 is more than just what the casual fan sees on track every fortnight. Unlike many other series F1 is, above all, a constructor’s series, the purpose of which is to solicit the most talented engineers and designers to leverage the best available technology to construct a race car to try to dominate the competition. This is the essence of the sport that is quickly being lost.



...2010 was arguably one of the greatest seasons of all time ...

To some perhaps, but to me the excitement was largely artificially created.

F1 is heading down the path of other series, e.g. Indy, NASCAR, where ballast, restrictor plates, and full-course yellows are used to create on-track excitement. No, F1 has none of these (well, perhaps with the exception of the latter), but the sport does have KERS and DRS both of which are cleverly disguised “push-to-pass” gimmicks.


Apologies for hijacking this thread for my personal rant... :erm: .

[ioan]

Apologies for sounding like a prude, but having followed the sport for over 20 years, I have never before felt such a lack of anticipation and enthusiasm for a season opener :dozey: .

Well, the interest is getting lower with every year that goes by.
For me it's the gimmicky tires, DRS and KER rules who are ruining the racing.

[ioan]

My enthusiasm for the sport has waned considerably in the last couple of years, mostly due to a variety of reasons:

Primarily because of the direction that the technical regulations have taken, introducing gimmicks in an effort to enable a more exciting “show”. Introducing the flappy rear wing to ease overtaking was the last straw for me. A purist at heart, I prefer to see drivers showcase their skill and experience on track and not having to rely on artificial gimmicks to provide contrived superiority over other drivers.

Every season I used to crave the new technological advances conceived and implemented by teams. This is (was?) a very big attraction of F1 to me. However, over the years the suppression of technical innovation has led to an almost “spec” sport. Severe restraints on car design, components, engine homologation, etc. have all limited innovative designs. I cringe now ever time a team manages to introduce a new techno-tidbit other teams cry foul and the FIA quickly declare it illegal :s .

The elimination of tire wars has contributed to more stale racing. Previously, a variety of tire manufacturers, not to mention tire selection, allowed for diversity in race setups and strategies, increasing the overall racing excitement.

New venues with sterile circuits diminishes the attraction to me, especially the proliferation of street circuits which I find provide little visual stimulation.

Although I likely will maintain a minimal interest, I foresee this season the culmination of my tedium with the sport :mark:

Sigh... you asked studiose :p :

Same here.

[ioan]

It's utterly retarded in my opinion. I wish they would throw DRS out.

Who do you think that Bernie and the FIA are catering for, the motorsport purist or the ocassional Joe with little or no F1 knowledge. There's the reason.
I bet this year the endurance championship will again be a much better motorsport show to watch than F1.

[BDunnell]

Who do you think that Bernie and the FIA are catering for, the motorsport purist or the ocassional Joe with little or no F1 knowledge. There's the reason.

Well, I class myself as a true enthusiast, and when I watch motor racing I want to see a race in the truest sense of the word. What is the point of sport if not to be enjoyable to those watching? However, I am left cold by knowing that DRS is an artifice.

[Garry Walker]

Well, the interest is getting lower with every year that goes by.
For me it's the gimmicky tires, DRS and KER rules who are ruining the racing.
100% right.
I have special hatred for DRS, it is the kind of stuff that if 10 year olds came up with it, I would question their intelligence.


Same here.
And here.

Who do you think that Bernie and the FIA are catering for, the motorsport purist or the ocassional Joe with little or no F1 knowledge. That question doesn't need answering.

[Garry Walker]

Well, I class myself as a true enthusiast, and when I watch motor racing I want to see a race in the truest sense of the word. What is the point of sport if not to be enjoyable to those watching? However, I am left cold by knowing that DRS is an artifice.

So you ... like DRS?

[BDunnell]

So you ... like DRS?

Er... I suggest you read my post to the end.

[rjbetty]

I'm not a fan of DRS but I find it helps to remember that for too long it's been artificially DIFFICULT to overtake, and DRS evens things out a bit. But then again, I feel like I'm saying 2 wrongs make a right...
In an ideal world, there would be no place for it.

I really feel like I have no idea what's going to happen on Sunday, unlike years before.

[N4D13]

I'm not a fan of DRS but I find it helps to remember that for too long it's been artificially DIFFICULT to overtake, and DRS evens things out a bit. But then again, I feel like I'm saying 2 wrongs make a right...
In an ideal world, there would be no place for it.
Yup. That's my opinion. I just wish FIA could get the DRS zones right for once - there have been quite a lot of races where overtaking was way too easy - Istanbul anyone?

[Garry Walker]

Er... I suggest you read my post to the end.

Oh yeah, I didn't read carefully enough.

[Valve Bounce]

There's one car on the track, shakedown maybe. Track is very greasy after a light shower, and can hear some wheelspin. I am at home.
Weather can be checked here: 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml#skip)

[DazzlaF1]

Its that time of the year again, mega mega excited for this opening race, and for once, you cant really predict with full confidence on what will happen

[steveaki13]

Its that time of the year again, mega mega excited for this opening race, and for once, you cant really predict with full confidence on what will happen

Yer its good

I remember starts of 2002 & 2004 and we all knew the Ferrari's would be round the other side of the track from the rest.

Its nice to not know anything

[N4D13]

Yer its good

I remember starts of 2002 & 2004 and we all knew the Ferrari's would be round the other side of the track from the rest.

Its nice to not know anything
Perhaps I'm jumping to a conclusion here, but I'd put my money on the RBR being the fastest car yet again, by a similar margin to what they enjoyed during 2011. I hope I'm wrong, though. ;)

[wedge]

With all due respect, you are missing the point of F1, as I fear, are many current fans.

Technology is (at least was) integral to the sport. It’s what sets it apart from all other racing series.
F1 is more than just what the casual fan sees on track every fortnight. Unlike many other series F1 is, above all, a constructor’s series, the purpose of which is to solicit the most talented engineers and designers to leverage the best available technology to construct a race car to try to dominate the competition. This is the essence of the sport that is quickly being lost.

I have love hate thing with technology. I admire innovation yet technology has made driving an F1 car easier. Ultimately people care more about the drivers and how can one respect the driver's skill if it's masked by technology?

Senna disliked driver aids. 1993 European GP is often cited as Senna's greatest driver yet Senna admitted his first win in Portugal 1985 was better because he didn't have TC.

There's potential with KERS with less regulation and am personally disappointed by not going forward with full grounds effect - the arms war excuse was pathetic.

[Valve Bounce]

I have love hate thing with technology. I admire innovation yet technology has made driving an F1 car easier. Ultimately people care more about the drivers and how can one respect the driver's skill if it's masked by technology?

Senna disliked driver aids. 1993 European GP is often cited as Senna's greatest driver yet Senna admitted his first win in Portugal 1985 was better because he didn't have TC.

There's potential with KERS with less regulation and am personally disappointed by not going forward with full grounds effect - the arms war excuse was pathetic.

As I've been advocating for many years - ban all batteries and computers on F1 cars. That will solve all our problems, and sort the men from the boys.

[Valve Bounce]

It is raining quite heavily right now, so the track should be quite clean tomorrow for quals.

[Salist]

Fotos from Melbourne (http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery/pictures/2012/f1/index-uk-gp-australia-14mar-1.php)

[TheFamousEccles]

Fotos from Melbourne (http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery/pictures/2012/f1/index-uk-gp-australia-14mar-1.php)

Nice post. Cheers.

[BDunnell]

I have love hate thing with technology. I admire innovation yet technology has made driving an F1 car easier. Ultimately people care more about the drivers and how can one respect the driver's skill if it's masked by technology?

Senna disliked driver aids. 1993 European GP is often cited as Senna's greatest driver yet Senna admitted his first win in Portugal 1985 was better because he didn't have TC.

There's potential with KERS with less regulation and am personally disappointed by not going forward with full grounds effect - the arms war excuse was pathetic.

I couldn't agree more.

[F1boat]

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before. For example I liked last season better than 2010. In 2010 the battle for the championship was huge, but in races the only tension came from the reliability issues with the Red Bull. In 2011 Seb obliterated the rest of the field, but the races were quite dramatic. Some say that this things are artificial. So be it. I prefer exciting racing, even if it is spiced - like the WTCC and the BTCC then boring, processional "pure" racing - like, say, the DTM.

[schmenke]

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before. For example I liked last season better than 2010. In 2010 the battle for the championship was huge, but in races the only tension came from the reliability issues with the Red Bull. In 2011 Seb obliterated the rest of the field, but the races were quite dramatic. Some say that this things are artificial. So be it. I prefer exciting racing, even if it is spiced - like the WTCC and the BTCC then boring, processional "pure" racing - like, say, the DTM.

Ah yes, I remember the “excitement” when Michael Schumacher was in contention for a podium position in the later stages of the 2011 Montreal GP, then a ridiculously long red flag session, followed by a ridiculously long period behind the safety car allowed a ridiculously easy pass by both Webber and Button with their DRS deployed.

Ah, yes, drivers’ skill played a pivotal role to decide the outcome of that race :up: :rolleyes: .

[ArrowsFA1]

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before.
I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

[The Black Knight]

I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

My sentiments exactly. It's a load of c*ck.

[BDunnell]

I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

Absolutely. Even a reverse grid race — something I don't think is suitable for F1 either — offers more opportunity for driver skill to shine than does DRS.

[BDunnell]

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before. For example I liked last season better than 2010. In 2010 the battle for the championship was huge, but in races the only tension came from the reliability issues with the Red Bull. In 2011 Seb obliterated the rest of the field, but the races were quite dramatic. Some say that this things are artificial. So be it. I prefer exciting racing, even if it is spiced - like the WTCC and the BTCC then boring, processional "pure" racing - like, say, the DTM.

Stuff like reverse grids, success ballast, etc might be all very well for touring car championships, but not F1. As it happens, I believe touring car racing would be exciting enough without such gimmicks, as proved by the start-of-season races when all the cars are at base weight, but that's another discussion.

[AndyL]

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

[BDunnell]

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

This point of view would be all very well were there no other solutions to those problems.

[AndyL]

This point of view would be all very well were there no other solutions to those problems.

I don't think the possibility of much better alternatives invalidates the point I was making.

Suppose I hate pears, can tolerate apples, and love bananas. If I have an apple, I can still wish I had a banana, but it might do me good to remember that at least it's not a pear.

[jens]

Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.


But perhaps it is good if the fastest doesn't necessarily win? If the pacesetter hits trouble and drops behind other cars, it would provide some excitement that he is finding it very difficult to work his way back to the front again instead of easing past everyone and regaining his "rightful" position.

Also the problem is that DRS reduces the possibilities of surprise results. Kubica's 2010 Australian and Schumacher's 2011 Canadian GP's were quite similar, but the result was different due to DRS. With DRS Kubica would have never finished on podium as he had several cars behind him and all would have passed. Kubica's defending even forced Hamilton to an alternative strategy, which cost him the race, but also gave more variety and excitement in the process.

[schmenke]

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

True, the Trulli-train was frustrating to watch, but when an overtake did occur at least there was the satisfaction of knowing that it was accomplished “un-aided”, with driver skill alone.

I can’t help but feel that the solution to overtaking has not been fully thought through by the sport, with gimmicks like DRS hastily introduced as a “band-aid” solution to keep the fans watching :mark: .

[AndyL]

But perhaps it is good if the fastest doesn't necessarily win? If the pacesetter hits trouble and drops behind other cars, it would provide some excitement that he is finding it very difficult to work his way back to the front again instead of easing past everyone and regaining his "rightful" position.

Also the problem is that DRS reduces the possibilities of surprise results. Kubica's 2010 Australian and Schumacher's 2011 Canadian GP's were quite similar, but the result was different due to DRS. With DRS Kubica would have never finished on podium as he had several cars behind him and all would have passed. Kubica's defending even forced Hamilton to an alternative strategy, which cost him the race, but also gave more variety and excitement in the process.

Those are very valid arguments, for sure.


I can’t help but feel that the solution to overtaking has not been fully thought through by the sport, with gimmicks like DRS hastily introduced as a “band-aid” solution to keep the fans watching :mark: .

Yes I agree, it has.
I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

Roll on FP1, only 7 hours until we have some on-track action to talk about :)

[EuroTroll]

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but bear with me. ;) With DRS, if driver A overtakes driver B, driver B can counterattack on the next lap and take his position back, if he can keep up. So in that regard, I think it's fair. Both drivers have an equal opportunity to overtake, if they have equal speed. It's like in the good old days, before wings, when cars used to overtake one another a lot -- if one car was unable to pull away over the course of the rest of the lap.

So in that sense, where is the problem?

And it helps to sort out the faster from the slower, which in the end is the whole point of racing, isn't it?

Think of it this way: In the last decades, overtaking has been peculiarly difficult because of wings, right? If wings were banned, the result would probably be pretty much the same as what we have with DRS. Yet noone would probably call the absense of wings a gimmick that ruins real racing.

Or am I wrong?

[schmenke]

Logic has no place in this forum Studiose :p :

What you say makes sense, but I can't help but think that DRS makes it too easy to pass. Even if cars are fairly equally matched in straight line speed, DRS provides a significant advantage to the trailing car. I dunno, maybe if the system can be tweaked so that it can provide a performance edge without allowing the trailing car to pass with such ease I could grow to accept it :mark: .

[Tazio]

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but bear with me. ;) With DRS, if driver A overtakes driver B, driver B can counterattack on the next lap and take his position back, if he can keep up. So in that regard, I think it's fair. Both drivers have an equal opportunity to overtake, if they have equal speed. It's like in the good old days, before wings, when cars used to overtake one another a lot -- if one car was unable to pull away over the course of the rest of the lap.

So in that sense, where is the problem?

And it helps to sort out the faster from the slower, which in the end is the whole point of racing, isn't it?

Think of it this way: In the last decades, overtaking has been peculiarly difficult because of wings, right? If wings were banned, the result would probably be pretty much the same as what we have with DRS. Yet noone would probably call the absense of wings a gimmick that ruins real racing.

Or am I wrong?
First of all I don't have a problem with DRS. I hated the idea but don't mind its use where we are in F1 right now.
Except As Per F1's Request that Pirelli produced tires across the range s-soft s-hard that deteriorate very rapidly.
Having those two in combination was way over the top but made for interesting strategy. You had to maximize your skins :mark: I watched the races last season, I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I do not recall a situation where a car passed another with DRS and then is retaken by the car it passed in the DRS, unless the car went off track. Depending on where you are in your tire life at that point in the race. If it's far enough along you may know you are racing for fourth.
If you are racing for fourth and behind you is a pilot racing for first or second! The best strategy would probably drive at your current pace and not even try to do anything but my normal line because you don't want to lose all your rubber fighting a guy that is good on rubber to the end. Unless your team mate was ahead of you! JMHO.

[ArrowsFA1]

The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce.
Exactly :up: The FIA have never addressed this. They've repeatedly tinkered around the edges and as a result, you're right, the teams have been able to recover what was taken away in a short space of time bringing us back to square one.

There's a reason wet races are most often the most unpredictable and the most exciting. It has nothing to do with aerodynamics, DRS, KERS or much else other than the cars have more power than grip.

Until the influence of aerodynamics is reduced the racing (not overtaking) will suffer in my view, but then my view is increasingly outdated as the years go by. The F1 I grew up with is not the F1 younger fans know and there is little sign of the popularity of the sport declining so I guess it is what it is.

[steveaki13]

I know its been said already, but according to Martin Brundle on twitter its pouring today at Albert Park.

Could mean a real lack of running and a real uncertain race weekend.

[Rollo]

Will Hagon was chatting to Tony Delroy on ABC Radio last night and said that he'd been at a function hosted by Renault who this year are supplying engines for four teams.

Someone at Renault told him that although the engines for Vettle and Webber are mechanically identical, the engine maps for them are entirely different. The different engine maps are designed to take into account of things like how the drivers stab the throttle and ride it, how they come off it etc; all tailored for each individual driver out there.
They also mentioned that the engine maps are designed to learn each circuit and write changes to it accordingly.
I wasn't really surprised by this because both the Ka I had and the 206 which I have now, has a very simple program which adjusts the engine maps based on the last 300km of driving.

I imagine that the Renault engine mapping program is probably smart enough to change the map during the course of a single lap; even on a corner by corner basis and remember it.

[BDunnell]

Yes I agree, it has.
I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

There would, but I, for one, have little objection to either — more so to spec aero parts, however. I feel that it's wrong to expect too much passing in F1, and it's this fact that makes certain races exceptional while others are less so.

[TheFamousEccles]

I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.
(my emphasis)

The rules should make the DRS carte blanche, useable anywhere the driver chooses, but in particular it should open under braking. That'll make the downforce go away ;)

[raybak]

Looking forward to going to the race this weekend.

I will be in the National Champions parade lap at 11.45am on the Sunday and then doing a bit of spectating. Have to be in the circuit at 6am though on the Sunday as we have a breakfast with all the 2011 champions then have to go to a drivers briefing before we venture out onto the track. Look out for our yellow and black EVO 5 in the parade :)

If you want to check out the rain radar check out this site 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml#skip)

Cheers

Ray

[Valve Bounce]

I know its been said already, but according to Martin Brundle on twitter its pouring today at Albert Park.

Could mean a real lack of running and a real uncertain race weekend.

You don't have to rely on Martin Brundle - you can rely on Valve. :) I just went up to Laurent ( less than half a mile from the track) with my better half and Benny, and we sat outside for Coffee and Hot Cross buns.
So, go to this website and you can check the weather instantaneously for yourself: 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml)
As you can see, these rain bands come and then they are gone.

However, having said all that, it is possible for practice to be affected by rain, which will affect the cars' set-ups particularly as this is the first GP and it is held on public roads. But as I posted yesterday, it rained heavily yesterday and last night, so the track surface should have been washed clean of grime.

[Valve Bounce]

Looking forward to going to the race this weekend.

I will be in the National Champions parade lap at 11.45am on the Sunday and then doing a bit of spectating. Have to be in the circuit at 6am though on the Sunday as we have a breakfast with all the 2011 champions then have to go to a drivers briefing before we venture out onto the track. Look out for our yellow and black EVO 5 in the parade :)

If you want to check out the rain radar check out this site 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop (http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR023.loop.shtml#skip)

Cheers

Ray

Sorry Ray, missed your post, because I posted the same link. I don't think people realise that Melbourne's weather is very changeable. I hope you have a great day at Albert Park.

[wedge]

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

Its more down to the tyres.

DRS is inconsistent. It's fine for Barcelona and Singapore but other places like Spa and Turkey the slipstream effect is grossly exaggerated.


I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

Which is why I'm in favour of grounds effect.

[Rollo]

The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

I think Grand Prix cars looked better aesthetically before wings started appearing anyway. If you removed the wings entirely, the design solutions would probably look more like a Formula Ford; to be perfectly frank, Formula Ford produces a better quality of racecraft.

[Dave B]

F1 2012 is go!

[rjbetty]

Yay!

I'm currently listening to BBC Radio 5 Live - it's 1:47am here.
It's got Ben Edwards, James Allen and Jaime Alguersuari!
Listening to James Allen, I have to wonder why he's so hated and what's quite SO terrible about him...

[Valve Bounce]

Yay!

I'm currently listening to BBC Radio 5 Live - it's 1:47am here.
It's got Ben Edwards, James Allen and Jaime Alguersuari!
Listening to James Allen, I have to wonder why he's so hated and what's quite SO terrible about him...

Probably because he used to come up with some silly comments. I can't remember any offhand, but I can remember his silly comments did not endear him to guys here the way Murray's silly comments did.

And, by the way, I am looking out my window right now and it's not raining. :)

[truefan72]

commercials on skysport coverage?

after making folks pay for the special channel they still run 4 minute intervals of commercials?

pathetic

[Dave B]

Massa becomes the first person to bin a car in '12 in a rather amateurish grassy moment. Way to convince Ferrari you're worth keeping!

[truefan72]

ok any suggestions for alternate live timing feeds, the official F1 desktop one is acting up...as usual

[Rollo]

Does anyone have a decent picture of Heikki's helmet out on track?

This is made of win:
http://www.heikkikovalainen.com/_uploads/37.jpg

If this is true, I can't ever look at Heikki on track ever again without humming that theme song.

[Tazio]

Alonso will be integral to (if they are ever ready) getting to the fine tuning.
Even if it takes a li'l set up in Fred's hands it will be a weapon, hopefully before next year.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Watch Online free here. The Australian Grand Prix 2012 be a Formula One race due to be held on 18 March 2012 as the opening round of the 2012 Formula One season.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Online (http://www.sportsbun.com/formula1/australian-grand-prix-2012-live-stream-online/)

[Marre]

Free Formula 1 Streaming Online (http://www.vipbox.tv/sports/moto-gp.html)

[Tazio]

Free Formula 1 Streaming Online

Dudes please stop making this message board appear to be pandering to pirates!!
These things are handled discreetly with at least one PM. The "fun police" (I'm not dogging them at all) could capture a domain with a little bait :dozey:

[TheFamousEccles]

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Watch Online free here. The Australian Grand Prix 2012 be a Formula One race due to be held on 18 March 2012 as the opening round of the 2012 Formula One season.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Online (http://www.sportsbun.com/formula1/australian-grand-prix-2012-live-stream-online/)

I can't seem to get past the message in the middle of the screen telling me to click here and collect my prize....

[Valve Bounce]

Short showers coming and going - I can't even take Benny down to the park for his afternoon walk. :(

[pino]

As I am not allowed to take part on the pickems here are mine predictions for the race :

Alonso
Kimi
Massa
Lewis
Button
Di Resta

:p :

ps: Welcome back Valve :wave:

[truefan72]

why has mclaren not sent Hamilton out for a few laps like everyone else!
so annoying

[CavallinoRampante]

The ferraris don't seem to be fearing that bad... good show!
Of course tomorrow it will be different. The RB drivers weren't even using DRS on the straights...

[Mia 01]

I like your prediction Pino.

If it raining during the quali and the race, anything can happen.

[EuroTroll]

2nd practice: Caterham is the fastest Renault-powered car. :up: :D

[Knock-on]

First 'off' of the year of course goes to Massa so surprise there :D

Save of the year so far must be Koby at the end of FP2. Coming onto the SF straight, got well out of shape and somehow got it all going in the right direction again without nerfing the wall.

[The Black Knight]

No surprise to see Massa off in tricky conditions. He's just reaffirming my belief more and more every session that he is simply not good enough to be a Ferrari driver.

As Vettel said though, the pants come down in qualifying and everybody shows their bits. We'll see where everyone really stands tomorrow but I think Mercedes may very well be a force to be reckoned with.

[Knock-on]

Mercedes are right up there by the look of it. McLaren were treating FP as more of a shake down than an out and out pace session (I hope), Red Bull looked a bit off in terms of top speed but we don't know what revs they were running and Seb apparently wasn't using the DRS much. Ferrari were there or there abouts but the big question is how they manage tyres. Fource India looks tasty as well and the Renault (sorry, Lotus) could be a dark horse.

Hmmmm

[ArrowsFA1]

Nice to see a Caterham in 8th and a Marussia 12th. Least said about HRT the better.

[CavallinoRampante]

I think Ferrari can pull-off a respectable performance come race day.... can't wait till they get the car developed with the new bits in 4 races.

[Koz]

Is the 107% rule still in place this year?

[SGWilko]

Is the 107% rule still in place this year?

For HRT - 107% is the amount of parts still left to fit to the car come qually!!! :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

As I am not allowed to take part on the pickems here are mine predictions for the race :

Alonso
Kimi
Massa
Lewis
Button
Di Resta

:p :

ps: Welcome back Valve :wave:

Hi pino,

If you had asked me, I would have voted for you to take part in pickems. :wave: :)

[SGWilko]

Hi pino,

If you had asked me, I would have voted for you to take part in pickems. :wave: :)

...only so you can blame him if it goes belly up!!!! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

I like your prediction Pino.

If it raining during the quali and the race, anything can happen.

Clear for quals probably and definitely clear for the race.

[Valve Bounce]

...only so you can blame him if it goes belly up!!!! ;)

Actually, I do my pickems so that I don't fall asleep during the race. :laugh:

[N4D13]

Actually, I do my pickems so that I don't fall asleep during the race. :laugh:
If you have problems staying awake during the Oz GP, what about us Europeans? :p

[Knock-on]

Interesting comment (think it was Hill that said it) about Britney. Apparently he's an AI (I assume Artificial Intelligence) driver in that he gets nothing but the maximum out of the car. I take this to mean he's very fast but not inspirational and can't get that minute edge which is just beyond what the car can do like Hamilton can or Schumacher used to do.

[schmenke]

Does anyone have a decent picture of Heikki's helmet out on track?

This is made of win:
http://www.heikkikovalainen.com/_uploads/37.jpg

If this is true, I can't ever look at Heikki on track ever again without humming that theme song.

Gotta show that to my kid :D :up:

[wedge]

Doesn't appear any different to testing. Merc-AMG look more and more likely that they can break into RBR & McLaren territory.


With the track ramping up tomorrow, quali will be mega!

[odykas]

It will be an interesting race.
Many drivers / teams seem close to each other.

[The Black Knight]

Doesn't appear any different to testing. Merc-AMG look more and more likely that they can break into RBR & McLaren territory.


With the track ramping up tomorrow, quali will be mega!

They have certainly made a big leap and I think they will probably be there or thereabouts. I'm still of the feeling McLaren will be fastest in qualifying but in race RBR will be quicker. Merc do look like the 3rd fastest team out there though from current evidence. You can never discount a car that has Ross Brawn's input.

Tyre wear might hurt Merc over the course of the race but certainly it wouldn't surprise me at all to see one of the Merc's on the podium this weekend.

[ArrowsFA1]

It would be great to see Merc up there challenging for the win, and it would be even better if Ferrari can make it a four team battle for honours this year with McLaren & RB who I think it is safe to say will be there or thereabouts again.

Still...early days!!

[ioan]

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Are we talking about racing or about rallying here?

[ioan]

True, the Trulli-train was frustrating to watch, but when an overtake did occur at least there was the satisfaction of knowing that it was accomplished “un-aided”, with driver skill alone.

I can’t help but feel that the solution to overtaking has not been fully thought through by the sport, with gimmicks like DRS hastily introduced as a “band-aid” solution to keep the fans watching :mark: .

The band aid solution was not brought in to keep the fans watching, it was brought in to bring clueless fans to watch F1. Marketing crap, that is.

[Koz]

For HRT - 107% is the amount of parts still left to fit to the car come qually!!! :laugh:

Lets just hope that 107% isn't what falls off the car during the qualy...

[ioan]

Will Hagon was chatting to Tony Delroy on ABC Radio last night and said that he'd been at a function hosted by Renault who this year are supplying engines for four teams.

Someone at Renault told him that although the engines for Vettle and Webber are mechanically identical, the engine maps for them are entirely different. The different engine maps are designed to take into account of things like how the drivers stab the throttle and ride it, how they come off it etc; all tailored for each individual driver out there.
They also mentioned that the engine maps are designed to learn each circuit and write changes to it accordingly.
I wasn't really surprised by this because both the Ka I had and the 206 which I have now, has a very simple program which adjusts the engine maps based on the last 300km of driving.

I imagine that the Renault engine mapping program is probably smart enough to change the map during the course of a single lap; even on a corner by corner basis and remember it.

As you say it is the norm today in mot road cars so if they use something similar in F1 they make it even better and faster and more accurate.

PS: 2 weeks ago they did reset the software in my Grand Espace and when I told them that the car drives strangely I learned that it was a proactive system that learns as you drive it. So much about us driving our cars.

[truefan72]

No surprise to see Massa off in tricky conditions. He's just reaffirming my belief more and more every session that he is simply not good enough to be a Ferrari driver.

then he went immediately on the radio to question if the team had changed anything on his car, when it was clearly driver error LOL

[Valve Bounce]

OK! it's fine. The sun is shining, not too hot, and some young ladies in bikinis are sunning themselves next to the swimming pool downstairs. No sign of rain at all.

[Tazio]

Good work Valve ;) ) I think "The Scuds" might work well on harder compounds in very warm conditions I dont think the track will be warm enough to make that difference. What do you think for Q2 track 31, and 27 ambient?

[rjbetty]

I have to say I'm quite enjoying listening to James Allen at the mo. Some will find that hard to believe, but I think it's just hearing a familiar voice again. Listening to his commentary, I really can't see what is quite SO terrible about him. He seems pretty good now these days when you think of how he was when he started a decade ago.

[rjbetty]

Qualifying Prediction (maybe too late now, but this is what I thought before practice 1)

1.Vettel
2.Hamilton
3.Button
4.Webber
5.Rosberg
6.Alonso
7.Schumacher
8.Massa
9.Grosjean
10.di Resta
11.Hulkenberg
12.Perez
13.Raikkonen
14.Kobayashi
15.Vergne
16.Maldonado
17.Ricciardo
18.Senna
19.Kovalainen
20.Petrov
21.Glock
22.Pic
23.de la Rosa
24.Karthikeyan

[truefan72]

Qualifying Prediction after watching FP3

1.Hamilton
2.Vettel
3.Button
4.Schumacher
5.Webber
6.Rosberg
7.Grosjean
8.Raikonnen
9.Kobayashi
10.Ricciado
11.Alonso
12.Perez
13.Hulkenberg
14.Massa
15.Vergne
16.DiResta
17.Maldonado
18.Senna
19.Petrov
20.Kovaleinen
21.Glock
22.Pic
23.Karthikeyan
24.De La Rosa

[rjbetty]

Oh I wish! Schumacher 4th and hamilton pole hehe!
I've learned over years and years of disappointment (none more so than 10 years ago in 2002), so my prediction is conservative...

[CavallinoRampante]

1.Hamilton
2.Vettel
3.Alonso
4.Button
5.Shumacher
6.Rosberg
7.Webber
8.Massa

[Valve Bounce]

Quals starts at 5 pm here, and I think the track will start to cool down by then, especially if there are clouds around then (no clouds at the moment). I missed P3 as I was otherwise occupied. Don't know if I can watch quals either as I only have one TV these days. I think I'll get stuck into some Champagne instead - good idea!!

[Tazio]

Thanks Valve!

[DamonHillFan]

here we go! qualifying is under way at last :)

[AndyL]

Live timing seems to be broken again :(

[N4D13]

Kimi and Felipe have been rather impressive - for the wrong reasons.

Oh, and according to Joe Saward, up in the Media Centre, the car has been nicknamed Clifford, because it seems to be a Big Red Dog. :p

[truefan72]

shock Kimi out in Q1!

no worries kimi we know you would have easily made it into Q2
I still think he's pretty darn fast and will be quite racey come tomorrow

the lucky dog is Massa who is probably stealing money from Ferrari at the moment...pathetic

[Mark]

We'll have to see if he can make up ground tomorrow. But give him a chance, he must be rusty.

[AndyL]

Live timing seems to be broken again :(

In case anyone else is having trouble with it: clearing cookies and logging in again has fixed it for me.

[Mark]

Alonso, off!!!!

[truefan72]

madness!

Alonso beached it!!!

what drama

[N4D13]

Well, Alonso is out of Q2 after spinning out into the gravel. Any chance he'll be able to get to the track in Q3?

[truefan72]

MSC, Kobayashi, Rosberg, Grosjean all haven't set times
I think all might be in the top 10

[Dave B]

Not laughing at Alonso whatsoever.... :p

[truefan72]

I think it is safe to say that mercedes is back

...and williams

[truefan72]

Well, Alonso is out of Q2 after spinning out into the gravel. Any chance he'll be able to get to the track in Q3?

I hope he does, but I don't think the rules allow it. He might just sneak into the top 10
you got to give him credit for wrestling that poor handling car

[N4D13]

I hope he does, but I don't think the rules allow it. He might just sneak into the top 10
you got to give him credit for wrestling that poor handling car
I don't think he will be able to drive it again, not because of what's in the rules (which I don't know), but because the stewards left the car just outside the track.

Anyway, what a disgrace for Ferrari. Massa is out of Q3 having been no less than one second behind Alonso, who only managed to set a single lap before spinning out.

[truefan72]

8 out of 10 ain't bad for my top 10 prediction

[Mark]

Car has to return to the pits under it's own power. Alonso did not.

[The Black Knight]

The next ten minutes will tell all. Rosberg, Schuey or Hammy may very well get pole. Not sure about rbr pace yet.

[AndyL]

Now that's a time. Lewis is back.

[i_max2k2]

Mclaren and Mercedes are back, Vettel 6th! :D

This season will be EPIC!

[truefan72]

wow!

Hamilton is back!
Button came mighty close!
Mac 1-2 :)

Grosjean, spectacular, this guy and the lotus are terrific
And Schumi? wow!

can't wait for the race
can't wait

[Garry Walker]

Eat turd rapunzel. Not looking that great without 1 second per lap faster car than anyone else.

[Garry Walker]

Awesome lap by Hamilton, also great job by Grosjean. Bad by Kimi, but at least the car is good.

[truefan72]

ok
let me restate this

Unbelievable by Grosjean

[The Black Knight]

Incredible lap from Hamilton. Looks like he's back. Yes! Delighted. Happier to see Vettel back there. Where's his finger now? Schumacher outqualified Rosberg. Rosberg looked scrappy. He might have been able to grab pole had he put it all together. Good by Grosjean. Would love to have seen what Kimi would have done. If Schumacher makes an incredible start tomorrow as he did all last year he might cause a lot of trouble for the Mac's.

[N4D13]

Impressive laps from Hamilton and Grosjean. Congratulations to all their fans. ;)

What a huge disgrace for Kimi. Yes, I know he's back from rallying and all, but the fact remains that his teammate is third on the grid while Kimi will be eighteenth.

Oh, and no glory for Ferrari this year either. It's Ferrari, they will fight back and all the drill, but only Alonso could have got that car into Q3 and even if he had had the chance, it would have been by a very slim margin. Fighting against Toro Rosso and Williams is certainly not what they bargained for.

[ioan]

the lucky dog is Massa who is probably stealing money from Ferrari at the moment...pathetic

Pathetic is the whole Ferrari team IMO.
But that's fine, they deserve what they got after gradually removing their best assets in order for LdM to get in the spotlights. And guess what? he's in the spotlights for all the wrong reasons! :D

[i_max2k2]

Cant wait for the Race, just cant wait!

[ioan]

Well done Grosjean and MS!
Appalling Ferrari and Raikkonen.

Looks like a race for Button to win, he's only marginally slower than Hamy in Q3.

[AndyL]

Great job by Grosjean. Heidfeld and Petrov both got podiums in the Renault at the beginning of last season... I wonder how long they'll be able to sustain that level of performance this year.

[The Black Knight]

Impressive laps from Hamilton and Grosjean. Congratulations to all their fans. ;)

What a huge disgrace for Kimi. Yes, I know he's back from rallying and all, but the fact remains that his teammate is third on the grid while Kimi will be eighteenth.

Oh, and no glory for Ferrari this year either. It's Ferrari, they will fight back and all the drill, but only Alonso could have got that car into Q3 and even if he had had the chance, it would have been by a very slim margin. Fighting against Toro Rosso and Williams is certainly not what they bargained for.

I still don't know why they chose such a radical design. They had a decent car last year and now have made a balls of things. I was at the first Barcelona test and it looked like a pig of a car. I really doubt they'll do much this year. Looks like McLaren could be the team to beat this year along with Mercedes a close second.

[truefan72]

Hamilton will have to have a spectacular 3 laps to avoid the Mercedes DRS advantage
Button better watch out too from Grosjean

But all things considered this is terrific for Hamilton to have button right behind him
...but will he be there after the first corner?
cause button isn't the best starter and Schumi is lining up right behind him

[CavallinoRampante]

Incredible... Ferrari needs to scrap the car....what a truck!

[Dave B]

Blimey I fully expected Red Bull to suddenly be quick when it really mattered, as they did throughout 2011, but it turns out their testing pace was genuine and that McLaren really were faster.

Amazing effort from Grosjean, I wonder what Kimi could have done had he not made a mistake. Ferrari were hopeless, Alonso's cock-up probably didn't make that much difference in the end.

Now on to the stewards' room: will Merc's wing be protested and will Karthikeyan be sent to the opticians?

[The Black Knight]

Lotus are going to appeal the result of qualifying on the basis they believe the Mercedes rear wing to be illegal. I hope they don't finish tomorrow. I really hate this sort of rubbish in f1 every year. Whitmarsh has said he believes the rear wing to be legal.

[truefan72]

I still don't know why they chose such a radical design. They had a decent car last year and now have made a balls of things. I was at the first Barcelona test and it looked like a pig of a car. I really doubt they'll do much this year.

they might be the first with a nose job

[gloomyDAY]

Alonso beached it! I almost spilled my Scotch whilst laughing.

I'm happy for Hamilton for getting rid of that saccubus and getting back to achieving great results.

I still think Button has the advantage tomorrow because of his tire management, so we'll see how it goes.

Finally, Grosjean gets to strut his stuff ever since the fat man stupidly kicked him out of F1.

Red Bull are struggling more, but I have faith in the team and drivers that they'll be competitive eventually.

Mercedes: w00t!! I haven't seen Norbert smile like that for years!

Happy St. Patrick's Day! I can't wait until tomorrow night.

[EuroTroll]

Apart from Grosjean and Schumacher, Maldonado also did an excellent job. :up:

Pity about the mistakes of Räikkönen and Rosberg... They should have done much better.

Refreshing to see Red Bull so far back. :D

[EuroTroll]

Oh yeah, and the Macs were pretty decent too. :D

[ioan]

Amazing effort from Grosjean, I wonder what Kimi could have done had he not made a mistake.

Do not wonder, Kimi's is no match for Romain right now. Maybe he'll come up to speed again later in the season.

[N4D13]

Well, one good thing about today is that people aren't going to make a fuss of the Maccas not having a stepped nose anymore.

[gloomyDAY]

Incredible... Ferrari needs to scrap the car....what a truck!So...


Well, based on their effort and budget spended they have the right to be disappointed if they worked towards that goal. This said, this year's ferrari won't be a midfield runner...


I guess we can just wait, then you can see what I am talking about. I am in Italy and live very close to the Fiorano factory. I know several people who work there. They have already made the chassis, but have to undergo crash tests again, don't know if it will be ready for the first race, but everything else is the same. For you guys to write off ferrari, and put predictions like 10th on the grid, or lower, is just lack of objectivity, or wishful thinking. :laugh:

[ioan]

Mercedes: w00t!! I haven't seen Norbert smile like that for years!

:D

[N4D13]

Do not wonder, Kimi's is no match for Romain right now. Maybe he'll come up to speed again later in the season.
ioan, if Kimi is not a match for Romain now, when will he? It's not like Romain is a driver with tons of experience - he's only driven in 7 Grand Prix, and that was three years ago!

It's not that Kimi is slow. Perhaps he'll need time to settle, but today's performance was merely pathetic. He's a F1 World Champion and he's not meant to be beaten by Grosjean, let alone being humiliated by him, as has been the case today. How long before the motivation whispers are heard all over the place again?

[EuroTroll]

So...



:laugh:

Now, now, gloomy. Be nice to our Ferrari expert. ;) He's having a tough enough time already. :D :p :

[gloomyDAY]

I'm just glad that the prettiest car on the grid is also the fastest.

[ioan]

ioan, if Kimi is not a match for Romain now, when will he? It's not like Romain is a driver with tons of experience - he's only driven in 7 Grand Prix, and that was three years ago!

It's not that Kimi is slow. Perhaps he'll need time to settle, but today's performance was merely pathetic. He's a F1 World Champion and he's not meant to be beaten by Grosjean, let alone being humiliated by him, as has been the case today. How long before the motivation whispers are heard all over the place again?

Well Felipe did beat Kimi, so why wouldn't Romain do it too? He might not have as many F1 GPs behind him, but he's got tons of racing experience, and besides being crashy he was also very fast last time in F1, if he matured enough he can do well now.
And BTW I am not a Grosjean fan, but he did great today.

[Garry Walker]

ioan, if Kimi is not a match for Romain now, when will he? It's not like Romain is a driver with tons of experience - he's only driven in 7 Grand Prix, and that was three years ago!

It's not that Kimi is slow. Perhaps he'll need time to settle, but today's performance was merely pathetic. He's a F1 World Champion and he's not meant to be beaten by Grosjean, let alone being humiliated by him, as has been the case today. How long before the motivation whispers are heard all over the place again?

He made a mistake, simple as that when pushing hard. As did mr.0,6 tenths Alonso. Unless you are mentally retarded (are you?), you should not view that as lacking motivation.
In fact, the only ones talking about motivation issues are those people who should be isolated from society.

Can I just say that it was really enjoyable to watch Ferrari today, I really hope it only gets worse for them and luca di montezumas (revenge) will break many TV-sets

[Kevincal]

People shouldnt write Alonso off yet, Massa hasnt been the same since his injury, but Fernando was right in the thick of things before his MINOR mistake which other top drivers made the same mistake getting the wheels on the slick grass... There are no points scored in qualifying maybe this is the type of thing FA needed to get fired up for the race tomorrow to hell with if the car is the fastest or not. Alonso top 5 not out of the question at all. Massa should have been gone from Ferrari after 2010...

Mercedes very impressive so nice to finally see Schumi fighting back up front. Would bring a smile to so many to have him on podium tomorrow. i would be happy to see that. I was thinking Nico could pull off his first win but a lackluster quali for him.

Grosjean, WHAT!? lol. Impressive but I cant help but to think he will falter in the race and be lucky to get 5th, I see him falling back to 6 or worse when the race is over. Kimi will fight back and get around 10th barring any bad troubles in the race. though i have to say kimi seems to be back in f1 only cus he failed at rallying and american racing he doesnt seem that excited to be back. wonder if it was kimi or the team who made the huge mistake in q1...

Red bull, glad they arent so dominant, they made f1 boring last year, curse them. Amazing to think that they might not podium tomorrow, very good chance of that.

Mclarens. i hope they arent the new red bull (overly dominant) but they look very strong and their car isnt ugly. Lewis tends to do extremely well when starting from pole. Unless Schumi pulls a magic start which he very well could, I see Lewis and Jenson going 1-2 tomorrow.

hope they let HRT race, they are close enough... they desperately need the track time to improve their car.

the f1 cars in general sound a bit better this year, more crisp, guess its cus the blown diffusers are gone?

[ioan]

Can I just say that it was really enjoyable to watch Ferrari today, I really hope it only gets worse for them and luca di montezumas (revenge) will break many TV-sets

:D

[Garry Walker]

Also, time for Felipe to retire. That is just pathetic. It is obvious he is nr.2 driver in Ferrari, but after the crash he has just been pathetic as a driver most of the time.

[ioan]

hope they let HRT race, they are close enough... they desperately need the track time to improve their car.

Given the number of times they blocked others today I doubt they will be allowed to race tomorrow.

[EuroTroll]

Can I just say that it was really enjoyable to watch Ferrari today, I really hope it only gets worse for them and luca di montezumas (revenge) will break many TV-sets

Yup. :D Don't know why, but watching Ferrari suffer is thoroughly enjoyable. :up: Honestly, I don't know why. Just is. :D

[ioan]

No need for that Garry, come on chap. :)

Looks like the season has started! :D

[Garry Walker]

Yup. :D Don't know why, but watching Ferrari suffer is thoroughly enjoyable. :up: Honestly, I don't know why. Just is. :D
Yes, but it would be much funnier if we had seen the face of montescumolo when alonso spun out, I probably would have paid at least 100 euros for that.


No need for that Garry, come on chap. :)
I stand by what I said

[Kevincal]

Given the number of times they blocked others today I doubt they will be allowed to race tomorrow.

It wasnt just hrt having problems with traffic, i think its more to do with the fact that its a street circuit and theres simply not room to move over on much of the track. we need backmarkers like hrt to spice up the show ;) plus i like the underdog and they prolly only need this one race to gain that 1 second and they should be fine the rest of the season making the 107%. but if they arent allowed to race its basically tying their hands and prolly be the same scenario in malaysia. let em race! those guys are working hard as anyone else. if they were 2+ seconds off of 107 fine but they are close enough in my opinion and from the sounds of the commentating by the experts they feel they will be allowed to race as well.

[F1boat]

Well, the qualifying were both sad and exciting for me. Sad, because it is always emotional to see the end of an era, like in 1998 when Williams were suddenly slow, and now it seems that the case with Red Bull is the same. I expected them to be behind McLaren, but I thought that they would have a fighting chance - not so. It's over for them IMO. About Ferrari, I will only say that with one reckless decision about "revolutionary" design the last remains of the great team which Todt built are gone. This was the logical end of everything Luca and Stefano did and it all started in 2006 when they forced Michael to retire. Eat what you prepared now.
On the positives. McLaren were really impressive today, I felt like 1998 all over again. Very quick car, very confident and competent drivers, calmness and confidence obvious in the team. They will be very, very hard to beat and it is very possible that the battle for the WDC will be between Lewis and Jenson. Romain impressed me, really, I expected him and Lotus to do well, but not to beat the Red Bull drivers. Kimi showed how impressive MS comeback was, failing to pass Q1. F1 is really very, very tough, even for legends like him and Schumacher. But fortunately Michael did well today, he still has the fighting spirit and it seems that he continues to improve. Nico continued to show that when possible win or pole is approaching, he panickes.
About tomorrow a lot depends on Lewis. If he remains calm and confident, the race is already over. If he allows his exuberance and temper to rule him, Jenson might win. And I would not discount Michael. The old fox is still there, still lurking and expecting the odd win. And Melbourne is an odd track, especially if it rains.
Can't wait for tomorrow!

[jens]

Wow, what an unusual qualifying session! I mean for past two years we have been used to seeing RBR in front of McLaren, Ferrari with Mercedes further behind, etc. But now suddenly something quite different! Like in 2009, 2007 or 2005 – a change from the past.

Well, McLaren is certainly in great position to deliver. They haven’t won the WCC since 1998. It is the best opportunity to grab it again. Hard to say, which McLaren driver is the favourite to win the race. Button is usually stronger in race trim and there is little to choose between them if they are running after each other.

Awesome effort by Grosjean. :up: :up: :up: He is currently one of my top3 favourite drivers on the grid and fantastic to see him back in F1 with a bang after terrible 2009, when some people were quick to write him off! It will still take some time before Räikkönen is fully back on top of his game, but he has a fight in his hands in the team, that’s for sure.

Mercedes looks good, really good. Actually I thought Rosberg could have challenged for pole (he was in front in Q1 and Q2), but was making mistakes in Q3. Is 2012 finally a real opportunity for Rosberg to rise to the top and prove himself as one of the main players of Formula One? As evidently seen, the pressure is now on! We will see, how much is the suggested tyre degradation an issue tomorrow.

Red Bull has been surprisingly slow this weekend. But perhaps this situation will show the depth of this team – how can they recover from difficulties and become a front-runner again.

Ferrari is really crap, like McLaren in early 04 and 09. Perhaps Alonso could have delivered narrowly a Q3, but that’s about it. Car-wise Alonso is roughly in a similar situation as in 2009 with that Renault.

Force India was surprisingly underwhelming too. Great effort from Hülkenberg to reach Q3 in the end after Force Indias looked set to end up around P15.

On the other hand great pace by Williams. Toro Rosso and especially Sauber looked handy too. I think Sauber is capable of more than they showed, especially in race trim.

Caterham a disappointment, still almost a second off Q2 spot...

[N4D13]

It wasnt just hrt having problems with traffic, i think its more to do with the fact that its a street circuit and theres simply not room to move over on much of the track. we need backmarkers like hrt to spice up the show ;) plus i like the underdog and they prolly only need this one race to gain that 1 second and they should be fine the rest of the season making the 110%. but if they arent allowed to race its basically tying their hands and prolly be the same scenario in malaysia. let em race! those guys are working hard as anyone else. if they were a couple seconds off of 110 fine but they are close enough in my opinion and from the sounds of the commentating by the experts they feel they will be allowed to race as well.
Personally, I hope that they're allowed to race, as it would be terrible for them not to. However, HRT is a shame for F1 and I believe that the sport would be better off without them. They don't seem to have done anything well in three years - this is their third season, and it's the third time that they're having a lot of problems in order to start the season. Marussia isn't quite a great asset either, but at least they seem to be well within 107% this season, which isn't bad at all considering that they haven't had any testing.

[Zico]

Wow.. What can I say?.. its fantastic that Red Bull no longer have a stranglehold on the front row and Its great to see Lotus & Merc so strong.. I knew Ferrari had problems but I didn't expect them to be THAT bad!


The smile painted on Grojeans face is what its all about. This season is shaping up to be a corker!

:D :D :D

[Kevincal]

Personally, I hope that they're allowed to race, as it would be terrible for them not to. However, HRT is a shame for F1 and I believe that the sport would be better off without them. They don't seem to have done anything well in three years - this is their third season, and it's the third time that they're having a lot of problems in order to start the season. Marussia isn't quite a great asset either, but at least they seem to be well within 107% this season, which isn't bad at all considering that they haven't had any testing.

True probably HRT and Marussia should not be in F1 but since they are and times are close enough to 107 and they spent so much time and effort going to australia etc. it would just be rotten if they were not allowed to race. i think they only need the 1 race and hopefully get to run close to, if not a full race to work out bugs and figure out some performance. fia limits testing so much its really not that fair. now if there were more preseason testing i would agree hrt shouldnt be allowed but under circumstances..

and people please stop saying Ferrari is so bad. lets wait until the end of the race tomorrow to see that. I think simply Massa had a bad day and was capable of 10th and Alonso also had the silly mistake and was capable of p5 grid. i think Alonso will have a strong race tomorrow and Massa well. i think he should not be ferrari driver... hes just not the same since the horror crash. no denying it. but who to replace him... an italian of some sort. ;) why not fisichella, old friends with alonso, give him a shot, or maybe trulli? :P surely couldnt do much worse than massa the last couple years. liuzzi!?

[N4D13]

True probably HRT and Marussia should not be in F1 but since they are and times are close enough to 107 and they spent so much time and effort going to australia etc. it would just be rotten if they were not allowed to race. i think they only need the 1 race and hopefully get to run close to, if not a full race to work out bugs and figure out some performance. fia limits testing so much its really not that fair. now if there were more preseason testing i would agree hrt shouldnt be allowed but under circumstances..

and people please stop saying Ferrari is so bad. lets wait until the end of the race tomorrow to see that. I think simply Massa had a bad day and was capable of 10th and Alonso also had the silly mistake and was capable of p5 grid. i think Alonso will have a strong race tomorrow and Massa well. i think he should not be ferrari driver... hes just not the same since the horror crash. no denying it. but who to replace him... an italian of some sort. ;) why not fisichella, old friends with alonso, give him a shot, or maybe trulli? :P surely couldnt do much worse than massa the last couple years. liuzzi!?
As for HRT and Marussia, I agree. ;) However, as for Ferrari... I know that one shouldn't jump to conclusions just by watching qualifying, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Ferrari is way behind the cars in front. Perhaps the gap isn't as big as it was last year when compared to the Red Bulls, but this year's field is much tighter, which means that being 0.8-1.0s behind means you're out of Q3. And the Ferrari's main strength is believed to be its single lap pace, so what is going to happen to them during the race?

By the way, according to Marc Gené, Ferrari's main problem is top speed, which is very low. I know that many people are criticizing Ferrari's radical design, but the main problem with the car is that it has a lot of aerodynamical drag, which means that they're losing a lot of top speed. The main talking point about this year's Ferrari was its suspension, which can't have such an influence on aerodynamic. It's obvious that the Ferrari's lack of top speed is due to a poor design, but I'm not so sure about if it's the fault of their radical design. The car seems to have acceptable downforce and it's OK when turning.

[jens]

Regarding Ferrari I can't help but notice one thing. They sacked chief designer Aldo Costa last year as a bit of a scapegoat. And what have we got now. Costa is at Mercedes, who is in a much-improved form, while Ferrari has dropped further backwards.

I think the fundamental issue here is that the management of Ferrari and more specifically Domenicali doesn't fully understand, where do the problems lie. Well, perhaps he has forgotten to look into the mirror. :D In any case, Brawn seems to have identified the problematic areas and Mercedes with its much-improved engineering team is finally on an upward-swing. Ferrari is going through the same bad patch, a lot of damage has been done already, so recovering will take some time. But recovering doesn't come automatically, they need to start making right analysis and decisions finally.

[DexDexter]

Pathetic is the whole Ferrari team IMO.
But that's fine, they deserve what they got after gradually removing their best assets in order for LdM to get in the spotlights. And guess what? he's in the spotlights for all the wrong reasons! :D

Yep. If you get rid of your best people who built the team up, you're gonna end up with a team which makes radical cars and then redesigns them in the middle of the year. Shades of 1992.

[jens]

I'm sure Aldo has a smile on his face right now.. :D

Yeah, actually reminds a bit of what happened to Honda. They sacked Geoff Willis in 2006 thinking that he was at fault for the car not being good enough for winning. But as a result the team found themselves from hell in 2007.

How to halt the down-ward spiral? Looking at the past examples, Honda hired Ross Brawn in late 2007. Ferrari hired Jean Todt for 1993. I'm intrigued to see, what will be Ferrari's next step/decision, because they cannot continue with current policy for long. Remember, what Williams did last year. They kept going with their conservative policy for long until they realized enough is enough and hired a whole new design team for 2012.

[Zico]

Lotus are going to appeal the result of qualifying on the basis they believe the Mercedes rear wing to be illegal.... Whitmarsh has said he believes the rear wing to be legal.

Anyone else suspect that its because McLaren also have it?....

[ioan]

...and Alonso also had the silly mistake and was capable of p5 grid...

Based on what?

[pino]

Unless you are mentally retarded (are you?), you should not view that as lacking motivation.



Please let's not start posting such unpleasent insults thank you :)

[pino]

Now about this race, what a disappointing start by Ferrari and their drivers, I am afraid that it's going to be a very difficult year for all tifosi...especially here on the forum :s The only positive note for me is my FGP driver Grosjean :p :

[BDunnell]

It pains me to say it, but what is the point of HRT as a Grand Prix team? I firmly believe they shouldn't be allowed to race, as a means of sending out a message if nothing else. Why does the 110 per cent rule exist if not to be enforced? In fact, there are six cars at the back of the grid I believe F1 would be no worse off without, but that's another debate.

[jens]

It pains me to say it, but what is the point of HRT as a Grand Prix team? I firmly believe they shouldn't be allowed to race, as a means of sending out a message if nothing else. Why does the 110 per cent rule exist if not to be enforced? In fact, there are six cars at the back of the grid I believe F1 would be no worse off without, but that's another debate.

Agree about HRT, but six cars, so this includes Caterham? I'd say Caterham is perfectly fine in belonging to F1, they are merely ~3 secs off the lead (still long way off midfield, but that is due to the whole field being very tight!). A team like Caterham would play a perfect role in being the rear gunner of F1, being a modern day Minardi and showing, how difficult it is to be highly competitive.

The main concern for me is that Fernandes may get fed up of having no progress, despite him having put in a fair amount of effort for that - new sponsors and personnel.

[BDunnell]

Agree about HRT, but six cars, so this includes Caterham? I'd say Caterham is perfectly fine in belonging to F1, they are merely ~3 secs off the lead (still long way off midfield, but that is due to the whole field being very tight!). A team like Caterham would play a perfect role in being the rear gunner of F1, being a modern day Minardi and showing, how difficult it is to be highly competitive.

The main concern for me is that Fernandes may get fed up of having no progress, despite him having put in a fair amount of effort for that - new sponsors and personnel.

My view pertains less to Caterham than the other two teams, admittedly, but even so I would hardly miss them. One of the things about Minardi was that there existed at least the chance of scoring the odd point here and there. With reliability being what it is today, that chance has been diminished for Lotus/Caterham. They do little for me, I have to say.

[EuroTroll]

HRT not allowed to race in Australia after failing to qualify - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98128)


Although the Spanish squad requested permission to race, the stewards said the team will not be allowed to take part in the season opener.

[BDunnell]

The right decision, I feel.

[EuroTroll]

My view pertains less to Caterham than the other two teams, admittedly, but even so I would hardly miss them. One of the things about Minardi was that there existed at least the chance of scoring the odd point here and there. With reliability being what it is today, that chance has been diminished for Lotus/Caterham. They do little for me, I have to say.

The positive of these teams, though, is that they increase the number of seats that are available, and thus often give youngsters their first taste of F1. Ricciardo who managed Q3 today is a good example, as is Bruno Senna.

I like having these lesser teams around, so long as the 107% rule is enforced as it has been today.

[Malbec]

Yeah, actually reminds a bit of what happened to Honda. They sacked Geoff Willis in 2006 thinking that he was at fault for the car not being good enough for winning. But as a result the team found themselves from hell in 2007.

How to halt the down-ward spiral? Looking at the past examples, Honda hired Ross Brawn in late 2007. Ferrari hired Jean Todt for 1993. I'm intrigued to see, what will be Ferrari's next step/decision, because they cannot continue with current policy for long. Remember, what Williams did last year. They kept going with their conservative policy for long until they realized enough is enough and hired a whole new design team for 2012.

Ferrari's problems are reminiscent of Honda's but please remember that individuals like Willis or Costa do not make that much difference.

Honda's problem was that their best mid-level engineers were poached by rivals after their 2004 car performed so well, especially by BMW. This was the cause of their fall from grace. It took them years to recover and that was also the result of poaching from other teams.

Ferrari did lose a fair few number of engineers over the last years especially under the Italianisation process under LdM. This probably has been the biggest factor underlying their fall from grace too.

[BDunnell]

The positive of these teams, though, is that they increase the number of seats that are available, and thus often give youngsters their first taste of F1. Ricciardo who managed Q3 today is a good example, as is Bruno Senna.

A fair point, but I'm not sure Senna is where he is now solely as a result of having shone in the HRT, while Lotus/Caterham has hardly used its two race seats to promote hot young talent.

[Malbec]

It pains me to say it, but what is the point of HRT as a Grand Prix team? I firmly believe they shouldn't be allowed to race, as a means of sending out a message if nothing else. Why does the 110 per cent rule exist if not to be enforced? In fact, there are six cars at the back of the grid I believe F1 would be no worse off without, but that's another debate.

What's the point of any GP team? I suspect they, like others, believe the big sponsorship deal that will propel them to the front of the grid is just around the corner. There was a time when SFW was known around the paddock as '****er Williams' only just getting his team from race to race and season to season before things all came together for him.

That said I don't think F1 needs to be charitable to teams like HRT. If they don't make the qualifying cut-off they shouldn't be extended special favours to race. After a few missed races their sponsorship will drop due to clauses and they'll disappear.

If anything I'm more disappointed with Caterham. Its their third season and they have resources at least on a par with teams like FI and STR and yet they were still 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the worst midfielder.

[BDunnell]

What's the point of any GP team? I suspect they, like others, believe the big sponsorship deal that will propel them to the front of the grid is just around the corner. There was a time when SFW was known around the paddock as '****er Williams' only just getting his team from race to race and season to season before things all came together for him.

But even in the '****er Williams' days his cars sometimes had a chance of scoring points here and there. I believe this, rather than the fact that they were the backmarkers, is what made Minardi attractive to many. They did a bit more than just make up the numbers. Nowadays, we more or less know that Caterham, Marussia and HRT are unlikely to get in the top 10, because attrition is generally so low. For me, there's no interest in that.



If anything I'm more disappointed with Caterham. Its their third season and they have resources at least on a par with teams like FI and STR and yet they were still 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the worst midfielder.

My view precisely.

[Dave B]

I must admit I've lost patience with HRT. Their performance and the delays in production would be excusable for a brand new team, but this is their third season and they need to start acting like a professional outfit. The date of the first race has been known for months so asking for scrutineering to be delayed was shocking and should have been refused. Then once they did hit the track their performance was so lamentable, and one of their drivers so lacking in awareness, that it's completely the correct decision to exclude them. They knew the rules when they signed their entry form, so I fail to see why they should be cut any slack.

Of the three new teams they're by far the least likely to succeed in the long term, in my opinion. Caterham do at least give the impression of being a capable outfit, with solid engineering, good media relations, and proven drivers. It did look as if they might have raised their performance over the winter, so for both cars to be eliminated in Q1 is disappointing but I'm sure they'll improve.

[Malbec]

But even in the '****er Williams' days his cars sometimes had a chance of scoring points here and there. I believe this, rather than the fact that they were the backmarkers, is what made Minardi attractive to many. They did a bit more than just make up the numbers. Nowadays, we more or less know that Caterham, Marussia and HRT are unlikely to get in the top 10, because attrition is generally so low. For me, there's no interest in that.

I presume you're speaking as a fan, and I do agree that race to race these teams are of little interest. However as a fan of underdog teams I enjoy following their long term progression closely and one never knows when they can strike the deal that changes their fortunes completely.

Look at Minardi or Jordan/Spyker/Midland, both of whom were taken over and became regular pointscorers. While you could argue that both those cases were the product of a particular time and political climate (especially Minardi/STR) there is little preventing the same happening to the current tailenders especially once the economy picks up.

[wedge]

I still don't know why they chose such a radical design.

LdM and his big mouth


Well, the qualifying were both sad and exciting for me. Sad, because it is always emotional to see the end of an era, like in 1998 when Williams were suddenly slow, and now it seems that the case with Red Bull is the same.

It can only be a good thing.

About time the real Vettel stand up. He's taken a lot of criticism over the years for his race-craft and winning in the best car.

I still think RBR will come back strong especially with the Tilke tracks coming up.

[Ranger]

I didn't see Q3 but great stuff especially from Hamilton, Grosjean, Schumacher and Webber.

Hopefully its a great race tomorrow!

[jens]

Ferrari's problems are reminiscent of Honda's but please remember that individuals like Willis or Costa do not make that much difference.

Honda's problem was that their best mid-level engineers were poached by rivals after their 2004 car performed so well, especially by BMW. This was the cause of their fall from grace. It took them years to recover and that was also the result of poaching from other teams.

Ferrari did lose a fair few number of engineers over the last years especially under the Italianisation process under LdM. This probably has been the biggest factor underlying their fall from grace too.

This is a good point. :) Then perhaps examples of changing a technical director can be viewed as part of a wider process.

[CavallinoRampante]

Well, the race still has to start, and the season is long... I still have faith thay can turn things around....

Now would Alonso not have spun out on used tyres (trying to make up from the mistake of using softs in Q1), he'd be in the top 10 for sure... I'll give them time for a couple races, then we'll have a better picture...

[N4D13]

Well, the race still has to start, and the season is long... I still have faith thay can turn things around....

Now would Alonso not have spun out on used tyres (trying to make up from the mistake of using softs in Q1), he'd be in the top 10 for sure... I'll give them time for a couple races, then we'll have a better picture...
I'm sure they'll be able to turn things around, but I don't think that they'll be able to challenge for wins - at least, not on race pace alone, but you know that luck or your teammate crashing and bringing a SC in the right moment can give you the edge. Not that it would be the first time. ;)

[ioan]

HRT not allowed to race in Australia after failing to qualify - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98128)

And rightly so.

[keysersoze]

In the "Teammate Battles" thread I called Grosjean > Raikkonen. Last year in GP2 the Frenchman was extremely impressive in bringing DAMS back, and his contribution was made more impressive since that team got off to a mediocre start, and his teammate was so far behind.

With an extra set of tires Kimi may have something on race day, but the man to watch out for is Perez, who may have something up his sleeve in not setting a time in Q2. He was pretty impressive last year on 1-stop strategies.

Massa! Wow, I didn't think he would respond this way, pitching it into the kittle litter, tank slappers off the corners, and 8 tenths down on Fernando (I know I know, he also made a silly mistake).

Michael backed up his testing pace and seems to have caught up to Rosberg. I think MS will be a threat for the win tomorrow.

If McLaren and Mercedes are indeed ahead of RBR, it's gonna be fun to watch Vettel try to make hay back on the 3rd row!

STR has a good car and good drivers.

Hulkenberg may have been guilty of a bit of gamesmanship in saying it would take 2-3 races to get on terms with di Resta. Just goes to show you the virtue of "under-promise and over-deliver."

PdlR did a nice job to get that HRT chassis about a second from the 107% cut-off. The car looks undriveable.

[ioan]

I didn't see Q3 but great stuff especially from Hamilton, Grosjean, Schumacher and Webber.

Hopefully its a great race tomorrow!

Same goes for Button, he was only 1 tenth slower than Hamy.

[ioan]

Well, the race still has to start, and the season is long... I still have faith thay can turn things around....

Now would Alonso not have spun out on used tyres (trying to make up from the mistake of using softs in Q1), he'd be in the top 10 for sure... I'll give them time for a couple races, then we'll have a better picture...

Alonso's problem weren't the tires he made a driver mistake by putting his left wheels on the grass.

[N4D13]

Alonso's problem weren't the tires he made a driver mistake by putting his left wheels on the grass.
I think that Cavallino's point was that with new tyres, he should have been able to get into the top 10. Now, whether Alonso was using new tyres or not when he spun off is hardly relevant to the spin itself.

[Tazio]

The Mercedes pace is real (or illegal). I hope Mike can get another win this year. :s mokin:

[Tazio]

Alonso's problem weren't the tires he made a driver mistake by putting his left wheels on the grass. This is totally correct. On the US broadcast I think it was Steve Matchett that said it looked like Alonso was trying to lengthen some corners to make up for their loss of traction they have when they take a more direct line and attack the apex.

[Kevincal]

Based on what?

i think alonso is capable of qualifying p5 because mclaren and mercedes are clearly the quickest cars but after that it is rather up in the air.


HRT not allowed to race in Australia after failing to qualify - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98128)

i dont agree with this, i dont believe in the idea of kicking things when they are down. hrt just needs a little boost to get going, 1 race. they would learn SO much just by doing one race. but oh well. rich get richer and poor get poorer in f1. top teams can get away with so much bull**** every year but the "poor" teams are usually not given any rope. besides where did they come up with 107% all those years ago? Why not 108, why not 106? its just stupid, a number they pulled out of thin air...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

i dont agree with this, i dont believe in the idea of kicking things when they are down. hrt just needs a little boost to get going, 1 race. they would learn SO much just by doing one race. but oh well. rich get richer and poor get poorer in f1. top teams can get away with so much bull**** every year but the "poor" teams are usually not given any rope. besides where did they come up with 107% all those years ago? Why not 108, why not 106? its just stupid, a number they pulled out of thin air...

Totally disagree.

It is a danger for the driver, marshalls and spectators to have slow cars on the track.

[airshifter]

It seems like a lot of people have made all the decisions about the cars based on a single qualification session. I suspect some will be eating their words after a few full race distances. :D

That's just my opinion, but a single session isn't telling us a lot folks. It's the first time the drivers are back in the hot seat under pressure, as well as the teams.

[Kevincal]

Totally disagree.

It is a danger for the driver, marshalls and spectators to have slow cars on the track.

there are always lapped cars in F1 races it makes absolutely no different if its an hrt or toro rosso both will be going significantly slower than a leading car coming up to lap them as they will have received blue flags so they will have slowed from their normal pace. look what happened with webber and kovalainen couple years ago when Mark took off like a plane cus heikki was too slow, are we not going to let lotus race that race though? No. as long as all drivers are paying attention should not be a problem having hrt on track during race. if anything it will spice up the race, i like lapped traffic to make things interesting, its just another challenge for the top drivers leading the race.

[Valve Bounce]

It pains me to say it, but what is the point of HRT as a Grand Prix team? I firmly believe they shouldn't be allowed to race, as a means of sending out a message if nothing else. Why does the 110 per cent rule exist if not to be enforced? In fact, there are six cars at the back of the grid I believe F1 would be no worse off without, but that's another debate.

I thought about that, but they did give Riciardo a chance to get into F1, which he grasped with both hands this year at Torro.

[ioan]

there are always lapped cars in F1 races it makes absolutely no different if its an hrt or toro rosso both will be going significantly slower than a leading car coming up to lap them

Comparing STR with HRT is as stupid as it gets.

[truefan72]

i dont agree with this, i dont believe in the idea of kicking things when they are down. hrt just needs a little boost to get going, 1 race. they would learn SO much just by doing one race. but oh well. rich get richer and poor get poorer in f1. top teams can get away with so much bull**** every year but the "poor" teams are usually not given any rope. besides where did they come up with 107% all those years ago? Why not 108, why not 106? its just stupid, a number they pulled out of thin air...

I completely agree
Running on sunday would have helped the team come to terms with the car a bit better and if anything help them towards malaysia
At the end of Q1 they were only 2 seconds off Marussia

IMO if any team is allowed to enter F1 then they should be allowed to race
it is as much a business as it is a sport and this does nothing but hurt the team
I know they have issues, but some of the comments here hoping they loose sponsors and fade away are really sad, considering that they give us two more seats and another competitor that just ads to the show. I would hate F1 to turn into Motor GP with only 12-13 vehicles showing up for races.

I watch F1 for the competition and the spectacle. So one less team, one less intrigue, one less aspect to the sunday show is everyone's loss.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/icons/s.gif

[truefan72]

Totally disagree.

It is a danger for the driver, marshalls and spectators to have slow cars on the track.

sorry, but that is just nonsense

[truefan72]

Comparing STR with HRT is as stupid as it gets.

so is completely failing to understand the context of that mention
so I guess that labeling something stupid when you can't even figure out the context is both funny and sad

I remember folks like you who were advocating for STR to go away just a few years ago
STR was Minardi...long considered a laughing stock of F1 minnows, but valiantly hung on, while the likes of Toyota, Honda, & BMW decided to leave at the slightest sign of trouble for flimsy reasons, even though they were better teams. and after a few years ,they won a race and now are a strong mid pack contender.

I'd rather have a team that struggles to be in F1 because they want to be there, rather than a team that simply looks at F1 as marketing and accounting opportunity.

RBR used to be Jaguar which had a terrible time in its re-introduction to F1
Force India was Spyker that was considered a joke
etc, etc,

Especially with today's economics, digital world and integrated society,
If you are admitted to F1 then as long as you can produce a car, you should be allowed to race
The only thing this move does is damage F1 IMO,

[Kevincal]

Comparing STR with HRT is as stupid as it gets.

I just meant when the leaders lap cars it doesnt matter if its an hrt or str because any car being lapped has to slow down and move over so in that case it doesnt matter HRT is a couple seconds slower because lapped cars are not doing maximum lap times. Simply HRT doesnt have to slow down that much to be lapped is all. LOL ;)


I completely agree
Running on sunday would have helped the team come to terms with the car a bit better and if anything help them towards malaysia
At the end of Q1 they were only 2 seconds off Marussia

IMO if any team is allowed to enter F1 then they should be allowed to race
it is as much a business as it is a sport and this does nothing but hurt the team
I know they have issues, but some of the comments here hoping they loose sponsors and fade away are really sad, considering that they give us two more seats and another competitor that just ads to the show. I would hate F1 to turn into Motor GP with only 12-13 vehicles showing up for races.

I watch F1 for the competition and the spectacle. So one less team, one less intrigue, one less aspect to the sunday show is everyone's loss.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/icons/s.gif

Thanks man! Glad someone here understands where I am coming from. :) I totally agree with what you say as well. I feel bad for HRT, imagine how much money and effort theyve spent only for some stuffy old elitists rich guys to deny them the ability to race because of a wonky unscientific rule. 107 percent, 110 percent, WHO CARES. again there were others besides HRT causing traffic problems in qualifying infact I cant remember a race recently in f1 where there werent traffic problems caused by all kinds of different teams including fast teams.

[ioan]

Seb overtakes Rosberg around the outside! Way to go Seb!
Grosjean get's a taste of Maldonado agressivity!

[ioan]

MS out, gearbox issue.

[i_max2k2]

I suspected that the Mercs would be slower in race pace, in qualy most of their speed came from the drs advantage which they could use most of the lap, so unfortunately they seem to behind Maclarens and rbr overall

[ioan]

Rosberg is a road block!

[ioan]

Rosberg uses other tarmac than the track. penalty comming?

[ioan]

Nice double pit box from McLaren!

[ioan]

Why do we get a SC for a car that stops near the pit wall on the straight?!

[Garry Walker]

Insane luck for Rapunzel again. Hopefully he puts it in the wall.

[Garry Walker]

Why do we get a SC for a car that stops near the pit wall on the straight?!
Do you even need to ask? Bernie wants a show, Bernie must get his show.

[gloomyDAY]

Why do we get a SC for a car that stops near the pit wall on the straight?!Doesn't matter. Worked out for Vettel. :D


Do you even need to ask? Bernie wants a show, Bernie must get his show.You're going to hate the next 18 laps. Vettel is going to go purple all the way.

[Garry Walker]

You're going to hate the next 18 laps. Vettel is going to go purple all the way.
hopefully his rear wing falls off :D

[Garry Walker]

How long will this SC stay? Nascar style crap.

[gloomyDAY]

hopefully his rear wing falls off :D Only a few more laps. Could happen since Hamilton will probably do something stupid to impress his succubus.

[Garry Walker]

Only a few more laps. Could happen since Hamilton will probably do something stupid to impress his saccubus.

What the hell is saccubus? vettels gay lover?

[Tumbo]

vettels gay lover?

we get it we get it you dislike him - bit homophobic are we? ;)

[gloomyDAY]

What the hell is saccubus? vettels gay lover?Hamilton's succubus (aka. Nicole).

succubus: In folklore traced back to medieval legend, a succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon appearing in dreams who takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual intercourse.

[Garry Walker]

Hamilton's succubus (aka. Nicole).

succubus: In folklore traced back to medieval legend, a succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon appearing in dreams who takes the form of a human woman in order to seduce men, usually through sexual intercourse.
Then you should have said succubus, not saccubus ;)


we get it we get it you dislike him - bit homophobic are we? ;) Obviously

[gloomyDAY]

Then you should have said succubus, not saccubus ;) I did.

[Garry Walker]

I did.

No.


Hopefully Maldonado will get past Alonso.

[gloomyDAY]

No.Are you blind ol' timer? Check my post again.

Hopefully Maldonado will get past Alonso.I don't like either. I hope they plow into one another.

[Garry Walker]

Are you blind ol' timer? Check my post again.
.Thankfully I quoted your post before you had time to edit it :D

[Matt121]

Will Webber get pass Hamilton

[ioan]

:rotflmao: marshalls show blue flag to Hamilton!

[ioan]

Do you even need to ask? Bernie wants a show, Bernie must get his show.

Stuff him, we do not need this crap.

[ioan]

Doesn't matter. Worked out for Vettel. :D

He was going to be 2nd after the pit stop anyway.

[Matt121]

A massive crash and Riccardo wins the GP. I hope

[ioan]

Stupid Maldonado in the last lap!

[donKey jote]

I don't like either. I hope they plow into one another.
he ploughed into himself :s

[ioan]

Well done Jenson! Just as expected.

[Garry Walker]

He was going to be 2nd after the pit stop anyway.

No, he wasn't. When the SC came out, his just did a 5-6 faster S2 than either McLaren guys. Or anyone else on the grid.
How was he going to get past Hamilton who had been leading him by 2 seconds and was on new tyres?

Maldonado needs to get a beating.

[ioan]

And what the **** did Rosberg with Perez?!

[Garry Walker]

Well, Button the best driver.
Red Bull the fastest car

What on earth happened with Rosberg?

[Matt121]

I have no idea. What about Riccardo?

[truefan72]

And what the **** did Rosberg with Perez?!

i think rosberg overtook on the inside of the track on turn 8

[ioan]

No, he wasn't. When the SC came out, his just did a 5-6 faster S2 than either McLaren guys. Or anyone else on the grid.
How was he going to get past Hamilton who had been leading him by 2 seconds and was on new tyres?

Maldonado needs to get a beating.

What are you dreaming about there? What 2 seconds?
Lewis was getting slower and when he pitted Seb went faster and used his tires better than Lewy. Seb was ahead of Hamy before they caught up with the SC.

I fail to see how the SC influenced whether Seb was going to overtake Hamy or not? Maybe you can elaborate on your philosophy.