Hydrogen in motorsport

[nate0123456]

Hi,

I am a student at Uni and for my honours year dissertation i am looking at "could a hydrogen fuelled championship be a sucess".

Therefore I have set up this thread to ask anyone interested in motorsport to take a survey for their opinions of using hydrogen technology in the sport.

The survey link: Fans Opinions of Hydrogen Technology in Motorsport Survey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JLN2WHP)

It is alone 10 question long and shouldn't take long to complete

I would like to say thanks in advance to anyone who does the survey and if anyone thinks they might have some useful information on the subject it would be much appreciated


Thanks :)

[D-Type]

An interesting question. Motor sport gets a bad press, but the true energy cost (or CO2 emission if you prefer) is not the competitors, its the spectators getting there. In that context motor sport is no worse than any other spectator sport.
The motor racing establishment, in particular Bernie Ecclestone , feel that motor racing should try to give an impression of environmental conscience but the reality is that it's just a PR job.
What are the alternatives to the present petrol-burning IC engined racing?
Diesel - being tried at Le Mans as part of the "be seen to conserve fuel". But diesel is only another form of hydrocarbon fossil fuel and has the same supply limitations as petrol.
Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol) - used as a fuel in sugar-rich Braziol where the set up is to ferment the sugar into alcohol and burn the residue to distil it into a form that is concentrated enough to burn. It is expensive, nut not in foreign exchange which is the other concern. As it comes from a vegetable it can be considered a renewable energy source and hence sustainable.
Electric - battery power. But batteries need charging and are heavy as there is no viable alternative to lead/acid batteries on a large scale.
Bio-diesel - combines the street cred of diesel and ethanol and arguably is genuinely sustainable.

And finally hydrogen, the subject of this thread. Hydrogen has two major disadvantages.
First it is costly to produce. All methods of hydrogen production require a lot of energy, typically in the form opf electrical energy and electrolysis of [sea] water. You are moving your prime energy consumption from the car to a power station and regardless of whether this is more efficient it is still a consumer of energy.
The other is the question of portability. Hydrogen has to be stored under pressure and this means heavy cylinders to keep it in. It may have a higher calorific value than petrol but as well as your fuel you have to haul a heavy storage cylinder around with you.

Frankly I don't think it is a viable alternative.

Edit: "Electric - battery power" corrected to make sense and say what I meant to say

[ioan]

Ethyl Alcohol (ethanol) - used as a fuel in sugar-rich Braziol where the set up is to ferment the sugar into alcohol and burn the residue to distil it into a form that is concentrated enough to burn. It is expensive, nut not in foreign exchange which is the other concern. As it comes from a vegetable it can be considered a renewable energy source and hence sustainable.

Ethically not green as it is not ethical in country where people are having problem surviving due to lack of food to grow plants for fueling cars.


Electric - battery power. But batteries need charging and are heavy as there is no - can burn in an engine very similar to present petrol engines. Has no emission problem as the combustion product is water.

Depends how the electricity was produced.



Bio-diesel - combines the street cred of diesel and ethanol and arguably is genuinely sustainable.


Same as for ethanol, growing plants for fueling cars while people are starving all over the world, it might seem green but it is not ethical at all.

[Valve Bounce]

How about LPG?

[D-Type]

Ethically not green as it is not ethical in country where people are having problem surviving due to lack of food to grow plants for fueling cars.



Depends how the electricity was produced.




Same as for ethanol, growing plants for fueling cars while people are starving all over the world, it might seem green but it is not ethical at all.
And what would you suggest as a fuel for motor racing?

How would you produce the electricity to charge batteries without burning any fossil fuels (ie coal, oil or gas)?

[BDunnell]

And what would you suggest as a fuel for motor racing?

How would you produce the electricity to charge batteries without burning any fossil fuels (ie coal, oil or gas)?

One has to assume from this discussion that the only alternatives are for motorsport not to bother making itself 'greener' at all, or to cease to exist as an activity.

[ioan]

And what would you suggest as a fuel for motor racing?

How would you produce the electricity to charge batteries without burning any fossil fuels (ie coal, oil or gas)?

We've had quite a long thread about alternative energies not so long ago. Worth a read, but you'll need a seriously big coffee for it.

[ioan]

One has to assume from this discussion that the only alternatives are for motorsport not to bother making itself 'greener' at all, or to cease to exist as an activity.

Exactly.
Motorsport as we know it is not green at all, especially when you think about the laughable rules like using KERS for a maximum of 7 seconds per lap and with a limited energy also.
If at least they would use F1, sportcars, rally to develop greener technologies I would be a happy camper.

[BDunnell]

Motorsport will not be "green" so long as there are spectators.

This is no reason for progress not to be made towards making it more environmentally friendly, though I am deeply sceptical as to whether there are great research benefits for road vehicles to be derived from the use of 'green' technologies in motorsport.

[schmenke]

Motorsport will not be "green" so long as there are spectators. The emissions from all the people getting there and back home again out weight that from the sport itself by several orders of magnitude. Of course the same is true of most all spectator sports.

:s

Ever been to the Montreal GP?
The only access to the venue is via subway. Or walking :p : . Or, you can splurge on a helicopter ride... :erm: .

[Firstgear]

:s

Ever been to the Montreal GP?
The only access to the venue is via subway. Or walking :p : . Or, you can splurge on a helicopter ride... :erm: .
You're not considering all the out of town folk. - people who fly or drive to Montreal specifically for the GP.

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