Ferrari & Italian Drivers

[ArrowsFA1]

Riccardo Patrese has suggested Ferrari should take on a young Italian driver in the light of there being no Italians on the grid this season.

Riccardo Patrese urges Ferrari to give a young Italian an F1 race seat soon - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97704)

Both Red Bull and McLaren have well establised driver development programmes which have already produced results, and WDCs, but Ferrari's driver academy hasn't made much of an impact.

Given that Ferrari are the dominant motor sport force in Italy, and could do more to support Italian drivers do you think they should? Or should they just get the best talent available regardless of nationality?

[N4D13]

What about both? Yes, they should do more to support Italian drivers, but they should also get the best drivers then can.

[Tazio]

No I don't think so. Its been almost 20 years since they've had one,(not including that pathetic demonstration by Luca Badoer in 2009) and theve gotten along quite well. Not that I'm against it you see.

[Mark]

No I don't think so. Its been almost 20 years since they've had one,(not including that pathetic demonstration by Luca Badoer in 2009) and theve gotten along quite well. Not that I'm against it you see.

And Fishichella the same year?

[Tazio]

And Fishichella the same year?
Of course Fisi, his performance was a little better having scored 2 points, but pretty pathetic as well.
He gave up a good thing when he left Force India, now he is a Ferrari test driver, which isn't the worst job in the world.
It's not like their aren't tons of Italians racing Ferraris, there just isn't any in F1.

[Knock-on]

I've said YES!

They don't have a responsibility to promote only Itallian drivers but Ferrari is such an emotive marque in such a obsessed Country that they really should do whatever they can to nurture that passion.

I'm a McLaren man and it is a source of great pride that they have not only 2 of the best drivers racing for them but 2 Englishmen as well; one of which came through a development program.

I would go further and wish McLaren only promote English drivers (ok, British then ;) ) to maintain our dominance as the only F1 Superpower but McLaren is a business as well. At least Ferrari shold do the same.

[pino]

Nice post knockie and I totally agree with you so I am now waiting for Luca to call me. :p

[Knock-on]

Nice post knockie and I totally agree with you so I am now waiting for Luca to call me. :p

I know there's been a trend of Ferrari putting talentless drivers in their cars over the past couple of years but seriously..... :p

Enzo was never keen on Itllian drivers and this seems to have followed through the years. Perhaps it's the expectation?

[jens]

Those two parts of the question can be combined. For sure Ferrari is interested in best talent, who can potentially achieve big things for them. But they can try to find them from Italy as well. It doesn't mean there are no talents in Italy, but the problem is that sponsorship money is really scarce there at the moment and talents don't get proper opportunities. Hence it may seem that Italy hasn't got any talented drivers.

[ArrowsFA1]

...the problem is that sponsorship money is really scarce there at the moment and talents don't get proper opportunities...
That's where I think Ferrari should step in. Their driver academy seemed to be set up to do just that but are there any Italian drivers who are a part of that scheme?

[Zico]

What about both? Yes, they should do more to support Italian drivers, but they should also get the best drivers then can.


I didn't vote as this is my view also... they should try and employ at least one Italian driver but only if he (or she) :D .. is an asset to the team.

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari should do the most they can to get good drivers. Them being from Italy is irrelevant.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari should do the most they can to get good drivers. Them being from Italy is irrelevant.
But Ferrari being from Italy obviously is not irrelevant so why shouldn't they do what they can to promote young Italian drivers, or is it that there aren't any good young Italians coming up through the ranks?

[call_me_andrew]

No one ever pressured Renault to hire French drivers or Williams to hire English drivers. Why does Ferrari have to hire Itallian drivers?

[EuroTroll]

I also think it would be too much to ask of Ferrari to have an Italian driver just because he's Italian. Ferrari are too good for that. On the other hand, they could secure a seat for an Italian in a lesser team, as part of an engine deal, say. Lesser teams are where rookies are supposed to prove themselves, aren't they? I know Hamilton is an exception, but generally the principle holds.

[ArrowsFA1]

No one ever pressured Renault to hire French drivers or Williams to hire English drivers.
Mmmmm...I recall the elf programme of the 1960's & 70's that supported many French drivers into F1, very successfully, and ultimately led to Renault becoming the national team of France. Vast numbers of journalists were flown to Kyalami for the 1983 title decider when the nation expected Prost to win the title for Renault. The pressure was certainly on Renault to have French drivers and win with them back then, as it has been on Williams at times.


Why does Ferrari have to hire Itallian drivers?
They don't. No-one is saying they have to but given their dominant position in Italian motor sport they certainly have an opportunity like no-one else to support home grown talent.

I find it hard to believe that there are no good Italian drivers coming up through the ranks who are deserving of support and an opportunity in the same way that McLaren supported Hamilton, and Red Bull have supported many drivers. If a driver who shows potential isn't given the kind of opportunity that Ferrari are capable of offering how can they ever realise their potential?

You can certainly argue that the $m's invested in 'buying in' talent like Schumacher, Raikkonen and Alonso has reaped rewards for Ferrari but couldn't a small proportion of that money be used to find talented Italian drivers who must surely be out there?

[SGWilko]

Mmmmm...I recall the elf programme of the 1960's & 70's that supported many French drivers into F1, very successfully, and ultimately led to Renault becoming the national team of France. Vast numbers of journalists were flown to Kyalami for the 1983 title decider when the nation expected Prost to win the title for Renault. The pressure was certainly on Renault to have French drivers and win with them back then, as it has been on Williams at times.


They don't. No-one is saying they have to but given their dominant position in Italian motor sport they certainly have an opportunity like no-one else to support home grown talent.

I find it hard to believe that there are no good Italian drivers coming up through the ranks who are deserving of support and an opportunity in the same way that McLaren supported Hamilton, and Red Bull have supported many drivers. If a driver who shows potential isn't given the kind of opportunity that Ferrari are capable of offering how can they ever realise their potential?

You can certainly argue that the $m's invested in 'buying in' talent like Schumacher, Raikkonen and Alonso has reaped rewards for Ferrari but couldn't a small proportion of that money be used to find talented Italian drivers who must surely be out there?

I suspect that Ferrari does support young and upcoming Italians in the various Formulae in Italy. However, if none of those Italians are good enough to put in the F1 team, then that is not the blame of Ferrari. As a team, responsible for many millions of sponsor (Philip Morris) money, their remit is to build the best car, and have the best pilot available driving it.

If the best pilot happens to be Italian, then so beit. As it is, they do have 'one of the best' drivers in the team - Alonso.

[ArrowsFA1]

I suspect that Ferrari does support young and upcoming Italians in the various Formulae in Italy...
Let's hope their driver academy (http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1/Scuderia/Driver_Academy/Pages/Driver%20Academy.aspx) does just that in the future.

[Knock-on]

There have been 2 Itallian drivers that have been sponsored by the Ferrari acadamy; Zampieri and Botti

[ArrowsFA1]

There have been 2 Itallian drivers that have been sponsored by the Ferrari acadamy; Zampieri and Botti
Perhaps you mean Mirko Bortolotti :p 2008 Italian F3 Champion & FIA F2 champion last year. IIRC he didn't do badly in the Williams at the Abu Dhabi young driver test either but doesn't seem to be a part of the Ferrari academy any more.

[Knock-on]

I'm not writing a surname like that. I'll be here all day! Botti he will remain :p

He's pretty tasty and looking good. Why did Ferrri get rid?

It's almost like Ferrari have a phobi of Itallian drivers???

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm not writing a surname like that. I'll be here all day! Botti he will remain :p

He's pretty tasty and looking good. Why did Ferrri get rid?

It's almost like Ferrari have a phobi of Itallian drivers???
No idea why he's not part of the academy anymore, although one of the points Riccardo made was that giving drivers a test in an F1 car seemed to be the end of the programme. It's as if Ferrari consider that as reward enough (who wouldn't want to drive one of their cars?!!) rather than taking a longer term view as McLaren & Red Bull have done.

Historically they do seem wary of Italian drivers and much of this had to do with the criticism Enzo Ferrari got from the media and particularly the church when Italians such as Eugenio Castellotti, Luigi Musso and Lorenzo Bandini were killed in his cars.

[jens]

Bortolotti had previously been dropped from Red Bull's programme too. Initially he looked impressive, but in recent years his progress hasn't been as fast as perhaps expected, I guess that's why he has been dropped.

Among Italians Davide Rigon is currently part of Ferrari (test driver), who I think is actually quite a decent driver, also Superleague Formula champion. But alas he hasn't had the budget to get a good opportunity in GP2. Last year's injury didn't help either.

[D28]

Enzo was never keen on Itllian drivers and this seems to have followed through the years. Perhaps it's the expectation?

Enzo Ferrari was certainly keen on Italian drivers in the early years. One reason he changed was the adverse publicity in the local press to the deaths of Alberto Ascari, Castelotti and Musso. He still rewarded talented Italians with rides, witness Lorenzo Bandini, with the same tragic results. After 1967 he may have favoured foreign drivers more, but Alboreto drove well for him for a number of years. Perhaps it was more a case of going after the best driving talent whatever the nationality.

[Hawkmoon]

Out of curiosity, how many drivers have McLaren supported all the way to a McLaren F1 drive? How many drivers have Red Bull promoted into their A-Team (Toro Roso doesn't count and we can ask Speed, Liuzzi, Buemi etc how they feel about Toro Rosso)? Hamilton and Vettel respectively are the only two I can think of but there may be more?

I don't think that anybody, in any walk of life, should get something simply because of their race, creed, religion or nationality. Ferrari, nor any team, should have any obligation to hire a driver of a particular nationality.

[ArrowsFA1]

Ferrari, nor any team, should have any obligation to hire a driver of a particular nationality.
I agree they shouldn't simply hand a race seat to an Italian simply based on nationality, however Ferrari are unique among F1 teams in that they are seen as the Italian national team. The nation supports Ferrari as opposed to individual drivers (see San Marino 1983 (http://youtu.be/84iUOQhVQHY) for an example!) and that perhaps lessens the chances of Italian drivers progressing.

McLaren, via the McLaren AUTOSPORT BRDC Award (http://awards.autosport.com/young-drivers/), have done a great deal to support young British talent. David Coulthard, Jenson Button, Paul di Resta, Dario Franchitti, Gary Paffett, Jamie Green, Anthony Davidson, Oliver Gavin, Jonny Kane, and Darren Turner are all among the 22 previous winners (http://awards.autosport.com/young-drivers/).

[Hawkmoon]

I agree they shouldn't simply hand a race seat to an Italian simply based on nationality, however Ferrari are unique among F1 teams in that they are seen as the Italian national team. The nation supports Ferrari as opposed to individual drivers (see San Marino 1983 (http://youtu.be/84iUOQhVQHY) for an example!) and that perhaps lessens the chances of Italian drivers progressing.

McLaren, via the McLaren AUTOSPORT BRDC Award (http://awards.autosport.com/young-drivers/), have done a great deal to support young British talent. David Coulthard, Jenson Button, Paul di Resta, Dario Franchitti, Gary Paffett, Jamie Green, Anthony Davidson, Oliver Gavin, Jonny Kane, and Darren Turner are all among the 22 previous winners (http://awards.autosport.com/young-drivers/).

If Ferrari were to do what McLaren do they'd be helping Italian motorsport, no doubt, but they wouldn't be putting Italians in Ferrari F1 cars. Patrese called for Ferrari to give Italians a Ferrari drive, which isn't the same as helping them get to F1. Of all those drivers you mentioned, only DC and Button have raced for McLaren and both debuted with another team (Williams). McLaren's program has helped a few drivers get to F1 but it hasn't helped many (any?) get to F1 in a McLaren.

The Red Bull program is also a bad example. Sure, Red Bull have helped a bunch of guys get to F1 but aside from Vettel they have dumped them with Torro Rosso and then discarded them shortly after. If Ferrari were to follow this path they'd be putting young Italian drivers in a Sauber only to kick them to the curb a season or two later. That wouldn't help the Italian F1 cause very much.

[ArrowsFA1]

If Ferrari were to do what McLaren do they'd be helping Italian motorsport, no doubt, but they wouldn't be putting Italians in Ferrari F1 cars.
By helping Italian motorsport there's no reason why that may not prove to be be the end result, even if only one driver makes it.

Patrese called for Ferrari to give Italians a Ferrari drive, which isn't the same as helping them get to F1.
That wasn't his emphasis in our conversation (Autosport's story is based on answers he regularly provides, and did so last weekend, for a feature on his website (http://riccardopatrese.net/weblog/?page_id=4188) which I run). As he said: "I hope some young Italians can come into F1 in the future." While he certainly mentioned Massa, and Ferrari taking a risk, it was that they could do that, not that they should, while recognising that they hadn't done so for many years. He certainly wasn't telling Ferrari to replace Massa now with a young Italian, but referring to Ferrari's academy he was inferring they could do more than they are doing.

McLaren's program has helped a few drivers get to F1 but it hasn't helped many (any?) get to F1 in a McLaren.

The Red Bull program is also a bad example. Sure, Red Bull have helped a bunch of guys get to F1 but aside from Vettel they have dumped them with Torro Rosso and then discarded them shortly after. If Ferrari were to follow this path they'd be putting young Italian drivers in a Sauber only to kick them to the curb a season or two later. That wouldn't help the Italian F1 cause very much.
True, but the Red Bull and McLaren programmes are giving drivers an opportunity to reach F1. Whether they get there with those teams or not is dependent on a number of factors but at least the opportunity is there. Dario Franchitti didn't make it but he's had an ok career elsewhere :)

[Knock-on]

This isn't about slating Ferrari; rather the opposite.

Red Bull and McLaren have maturing driver support programs and are beginning to see results from nurturing young driver talent.

McLaren in particular make a point of helping British talent and it might be good for Itallian motorsport if ferrari do the same. That's all.

[wedge]

Red Bull and McLaren have maturing driver support programs and are beginning to see results from nurturing young driver talent.



Not sure about RB. If Ferrari drivers don't make the grade then they can at least sling them off into GTs like they do with Mika Salo & Fisi.

[ArrowsFA1]

The view seems to be that Ferrari have no obligation to support Italian drivers over others so if this remains the case how long will it be before we see another Italian in F1? Where will they find the support and finance?

[pino]

The view seems to be that Ferrari have no obligation to support Italian drivers over others so if this remains the case how long will it be before we see another Italian in F1? Where will they find the support and finance?

The same poll on ital forum would've given a different result ;) Still we won't see any Italian for long time unfortunately...

[EuroTroll]

Still we won't see any Italian for long time unfortunately...

You never know. The thing to remember IMO is that many great F1 drivers have also come good without any particular development program. They just had the talent. The next great talent may well come from Italy.

[jens]

It looks like we are going to have a drought of Italians for many years to come. But who knows, maybe after 10 years situation will have changed, it is a long time.

Looking at history, there was real shortage of (competitive) Italian drivers in the 1970's as well, when the best the country could offer, were the likes of Merzario, Brambilla and Giunti. But somehow this low ended in late 70's, when the influx of Italian drivers began. What was the reason for the upward-swing back then? Alfa Romeo also joined F1 in late-70's, so there was more competition among Italian teams as well.

[Tazio]

You never know. The thing to remember IMO is that many great F1 drivers have also come good without any particular development program. They just had the talent. The next great talent may well come from Italy.
Good point dude. Mike and Ralf didn't participate in young driver programs. Either did Felipe, Kimi, or Alonso. These guys succeeded at Karting, got into lesser formulae, and made F1 on merit, I'm sure this theme is also true with many others.
Regardless of what Riccardo (here let me let you right through Nige) Patrese’ opinion is on this matter. If Ferrari opens a racing academy it should be for the best candidates regardless of nationality, which is their business!

[MAX_THRUST]

It would be nice to see Italian drives in a Ferrari, but its not the end of the world if there isn't. Are there any who cut the mustard. Ferarri want to win as mucha s the enxt team and they pay for the driver they feel, that brings them the best chance.

[jens]

Good point dude. Mike and Ralf didn't participate in young driver programs. Either did Felipe, Kimi, or Alonso. These guys succeeded at Karting, got into lesser formulae, and made F1 on merit, I'm sure this theme is also true with many others.
Regardless of what Riccardo (here let me let you right through Nige) Patrese’ opinion is on this matter. If Ferrari opens a racing academy it should be for the best candidates regardless of nationality, which is their business!

I thought Michael was part of Mercedes' driver programme before F1.

Ferrari has already opened a racing academy (i.e Bianchi and Pérez are part of it), but there are currently no Italians. But we may discuss, what could be the benefit for Ferrari to sign up an Italian.

Looking elsewhere in the world, it can be mentioned that for instance Force India has started a driver development programme in India, specifically aimed at grooming a top racing driver from this huge country.
Force India Formula One Team Academy - One From A Billion Hunt (http://www.onefromabillion.com/)

Force India F1 Team has strictly hired drivers only with potential and no Indian driver has found its way there yet, and I'd say rightfully so. But obviously they see the long-term benefit in trying to find such driver for the future.

[pino]

It would be nice to see Italian drives in a Ferrari, but its not the end of the world if there isn't...

Easy to say...if you're not italian ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Force India F1 Team has strictly hired drivers only with potential and no Indian driver has found its way there yet, and I'd say rightfully so. But obviously they see the long-term benefit in trying to find such driver for the future.
That's a key point IMHO. As long as Ferrari had Schumacher winning everything the future could wait, but there was still an opportunity for them to develop young talent. They didn't and instead spent $m's on established talent in Raikkonen then Alonso. The one driver they had brought through the ranks, Massa, has not become a consistent world beater.

I suppose as long as Ferrari can continue to 'buy in' world champions (what are the odds on Vettel being next?) then there's no real issue but I would have thought it's in their interests to invest in the future.

[Tazio]

I thought Michael was part of Mercedes' driver programme before F1.

Ferrari has already opened a racing academy (i.e Bianchi and Pérez are part of it), but there are currently no Italians. But we may discuss, what could be the benefit for Ferrari to sign up an Italian.

Looking elsewhere in the world, it can be mentioned that for instance Force India has started a driver development programme in India, specifically aimed at grooming a top racing driver from this huge country.
Force India Formula One Team Academy - One From A Billion Hunt (http://www.onefromabillion.com/)

Force India F1 Team has strictly hired drivers only with potential and no Indian driver has found its way there yet, and I'd say rightfully so. But obviously they see the long-term benefit in trying to find such driver for the future.
I think you (and some others) and I just disagree on the responsibilities of F1 teams. Let's blame Ferrari for their being no Italians in F1. France went years without any. Where was the outrage then?

[MAX_THRUST]

Its good to see Maclaren with two brit drivers MERX with two German drivers, it would be great if the teams had drivers from the same country of origin.

[Tazio]

Its good to see Maclaren with two brit drivers MERX with two German drivers, it would be great if the teams had drivers from the same country of origin. Great thinking, than every country without a team would be sh!t out of luck. :laugh:

[jens]

I think you (and some others) and I just disagree on the responsibilities of F1 teams. Let's blame Ferrari for their being no Italians in F1. France went years without any. Where was the outrage then?

I don't consider it as their responsibility. After all, it's Ferrari's business to decide, what is most useful for them. But in this thread we can discuss about the potential benefit of grooming a local driver.

[Tazio]

I don't consider it as their responsibility. After all, it's Ferrari's business to decide, what is most useful for them. But in this thread we can discuss about the potential benefit of grooming a local driver. Absolutely! That is why I was posting on a lot of other threads, but avoided this thread for about a week. There were matters that I really didn't feel like engaging in myself. I'm sorry that when I finally did give my opinion which you suggest others who chose to ruminate on the potential benefit of grooming a local driver should stop expressing themselves. I'm not trying to put a stop the current tone of the conversation ...I just think it is irrelevant MO.
:s ailor: Peace

[Hawkmoon]

Maybe we should broaden our view a little to take in all F1 teams and not just Ferrari. How many teams have groomed a driver through junior formula to a drive in one of their cars (as opposed to placing a driver in a smaller team)? The only one I can think of is McLaren with Hamilton. Red Bull's driver program isn't specific to any one country and they have preferred to bring in drivers from other teams rather than promote young drivers to their main team (Klien was the only Austrian and it didn't end well) . Mercedes, while hiring two German drivers, chose to hire veterans from other teams (or retirement) rather than promote a young German. Hamilton is the only driver McLaren have put in one of their cars. It's not just Ferrari who aren't doing it it's ALL the top teams.

The fact is, if you are Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull you have the best drivers knocking on your door and you pick the one you think is the best, regardless of nationality.

I think there is a distinction between putting a countryman in your car a supporting young drivers. Some teams (McLaren) do more to help drivers in the formative years than others and yes, Ferrari could do more here. I just don't think that what Patrese was suggesting (replacing Massa with an Italian) is the right way to go unless that Italian is the second coming of Alberto Ascari.

[ArrowsFA1]

The fact is, if you are Ferrari, McLaren or Red Bull you have the best drivers knocking on your door and you pick the one you think is the best, regardless of nationality.
That's true. The best drivers normally end up in the best cars regardless of nationality and I certainly wouldn't want F1 to become a nationality based series. However I think it's more about drivers being given an opportunity, rather than placing an Italian at Ferrari only because they're Italian.

Patrese's comments, and this thread, were prompted by the fact that there are now no Italians racing in F1 for the first time in decades. That may be nothing to worry about, and in time one or more will emerge, or there could be something that could actively be done to support drivers from Italy.

Do the Automobile Club d'Italia (ACI) have the kind of programmes being run by the BRDC (http://www.brdc.co.uk/Young-Drivers) in the UK?


I just don't think that what Patrese was suggesting (replacing Massa with an Italian) is the right way to go unless that Italian is the second coming of Alberto Ascari.
He was realistic saying it would be a risk and that they haven't done that kind of thing for many years.

[Hawkmoon]

Arrows, I think the fact that there are no Italian drivers in F1 is a product of the fact that the proliferation of Italian teams is a thing of the past. The focus of Italian F1 has been Ferrari for a long time now but in the '80s and '90s there were lots of little Italian teams (Minardi, Scuderia Italia, Coloni etc) who would invariably hire Italian drivers. There were lots of Italian drivers in the sport but very few good ones and no great ones. In the last 30 years I figure the total wins by all Italians in F1 is less than 20. Fisichella won a few, Trulli won once, Patrese and Alboreto won a few in the '80s and '90's. The quantity was there but the quality wasn't.

Whose fault is that? I don't know. Maybe Ferrari can take some of the blame but it has to go further than their reluctance to put an Italian in one of their cars.

[ArrowsFA1]

Arrows, I think the fact that there are no Italian drivers in F1 is a product of the fact that the proliferation of Italian teams is a thing of the past.
Good point :up: There was far more opportunity then and also Italian companies were more active in sponsoring drivers i.e. Parmalat (pre-Brabham sponsorship) and Benetton (before they bought the Toleman team).

[ArrowsFA1]

Interesting stat #1: From 1989 to 2008 16 of the 19 world karting champions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karting_World_Championship) came from Italy. Only one made it to F1.

Interesting stat #2: Only two world karting champions have won a GP, both Italian.

[AndyL]

Interesting stat #1: From 1989 to 2008 16 of the 19 world karting champions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karting_World_Championship) came from Italy. Only one made it to F1.

A lot of those Italians over the last couple of decades have won it multiple times. I guess they're seeing karting as an end in itself and less as a stepping stone to single seater car formulae.

Most, if not all, recent F1 drivers had previous success in karting, so I guess this is showing that to make it in F1 you need to have moved on from karting before you get to the level of world champion.

[jens]

Interesting stat #1: From 1989 to 2008 16 of the 19 world karting champions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karting_World_Championship) came from Italy. Only one made it to F1.


Actually two, Trulli & Liuzzi. :)

By the way, I find it quite fascinating that for instance back in 1990 we had 15! ( :eek: ) Italians participating in F1 during the season.

[ArrowsFA1]

Actually two, Trulli & Liuzzi. :)
Ooops :s murf: :p

[airshifter]

Easy to say...if you're not italian ;)

Easy for us Americans.... we have no team for drivers to support! :D

At the end of the day I wish every team could have quality drivers from their base country, but if getting a better driver means going elsewhere that is good for the team. I'm actually surprised that Ferrari hasn't come up with a strong driver development program to support having Italian drivers who are also among the best on the grid.

[odykas]

Who was the last successful Italian driver at Ferrari?
Alboreto? :rolleyes:

On the other hand traditions are meant to be broken.

[steveaki13]

As mentioned above it does seem amazing how many drivers we had from Italy back in the early 90s to where we are today.

Although as said its whether its better to have one decent Italian driver or 10 very average ones.

It is just a fact that these days F1 seats are less numerous and harder to come by. 20-24 seats lately as opposed to 30-35 in the early 90s. Thats without all the replacements used through those seasons. 40+ probably.

It does happen through, look at how after years of no French driver now we have 3 to look forward too.

[steveaki13]

Hard to say whether I think it is down to Ferrari though.

On one hand they get so much support and moral from the Italian nation that maybe they do owe it to give young Italians a better chance, but of course as a top flight team, their main target is success which throws that out of the window.

[CNR]

Q :s o what about a driver's bloodline ?
Italian background, Australian through and through | 2012 Formula 1 Qantas Australian Grand Prix (http://www.grandprix.com.au/node/1298)

Joe Ricciardo was born in Sicily but came Down Under at the tender age of seven. His wife Grace was born in Australia but her family hails from Calabria. Since Jarno Trulli lost his race seat to Vitaly Petrov and his Russian roubles, leaving the grid without an Italian driver for the first time since 1970, Daniel Ricciardo might just be the closest thing to it in 2012.

[CavallinoRampante]

I am not surprised if there are no Italians on the grid. Italy's middle class is very poor now, with people earning 1200€ per month, the cost of living skyrocketing (gasoline prices at a world high 2€ per liter) it's hard to back up a son's dream to drive.

This is all due to decades of socialist spending , and public employment being granted in exchange for votes, and corruption in the public health, school, and transport systems.

The money just isn't there anymore, and even if we have VERY talented young drivers in the carting series, it pretty much ends there, no sponsors, no big $$$ to push talented kids to the next level.

Sadly this is the untold truth about current economy in Italy. Having voted against nuclear power (pure idiocy) , and with the tree-huggers blocking all construction of new facilities, like high speed railroads, and tunnes, etc... the country is in a standstill.

Italy will start producing again in 20-30 years, once the left-over communists and socialists pre-cold war, finally die, and once some common sense is put back in the common populace, thanks to immigrants mingling...

;)

[CavallinoRampante]

If you think that Italians have to work a whole month to buy 600 liters of gasoline, that pretty much explains the picture.

That's 160 gallons of gasoline for a full month of work. how's that for buying power?

[wedge]

I am not surprised if there are no Italians on the grid. Italy's middle class is very poor now, with people earning 1200€ per month, the cost of living skyrocketing (gasoline prices at a world high 2€ per liter) it's hard to back up a son's dream to drive.

This is all due to decades of socialist spending , and public employment being granted in exchange for votes, and corruption in the public health, school, and transport systems.

The money just isn't there anymore, and even if we have VERY talented young drivers in the carting series, it pretty much ends there, no sponsors, no big $$$ to push talented kids to the next level.

Sadly this is the untold truth about current economy in Italy. Having voted against nuclear power (pure idiocy) , and with the tree-huggers blocking all construction of new facilities, like high speed railroads, and tunnes, etc... the country is in a standstill.

Italy will start producing again in 20-30 years, once the left-over communists and socialists pre-cold war, finally die, and once some common sense is put back in the common populace, thanks to immigrants mingling...

;)

BBC says otherwise:


So why is Italy in trouble now?

The reason is because its economy is so weak.

Italy is plagued by poor regulation, vested business interests, an ageing population and weak investment, all of which have conspired to limit the country's ability to increase production - problems that Italy's new government of unelected technocrats says it is trying to address.

The country has averaged an abysmal 0.75% annual economic growth rate over the past 15 years.

BBC News - What's the matter with Italy? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15429057)


Cue BBC liberal bias flaming.

[CavallinoRampante]

Yea, the press is all liberal, so for them it's ok if Italy is spending huge resources on scarsely producing wind power, and totally unproductive solar power... we have the highest cost per KW than any western country, and the highest cost of gasoline in the world, as well as a 44% income taxation, not including the 21% VAT.

Easy to understand why all the big companies have moved or are moving production outside of Italy, like FIAT and hundreds of smaller companies.

Basically the GDP keeps coming down as the tax pressure goes up...

The more the govt taxes people, the less tax money goes in the govt' hands.

Until companies can start producing again here at the same cost as they can produce in the States or Germany etc,
it's not going to get better, simple as that.
This means a more savvy energy-policy , lower taxation, and better use of public money...
Do I think it will happen? Not a chance in this country, unless people themselves change, or if a large EUROPE is born, with a European government for everyone, and same laws and economic system for everyone in Europe.... basically for Italy to become competitive again, good laws have to be imposed from the top.....

[wedge]

Well it's very to easy to blame the economy but surely its a bit more complex?

Marlboro supported a generation of Italians in F1 - IIRC wasn't De Cesaris regarded as Marboro's Golden Boy, the favoured son? With no tobacco sponsorship what has been done to replicate this or help a new generation in the past decade or so?

What of the junior formulae? How has Italian F3 faired with rising costs, the impact of Euro F3 and now GP3?

[BDunnell]

Well it's very to easy to blame the economy but surely its a bit more complex?

I would say so, especially given that the economic analysis presented is an extremely one-sided one being put forward as fact.

[wedge]

Spain is another country with publicized economic problems and yet its still regarded highly for young bike racers akin to single seaters in the UK.

[CavallinoRampante]

I would say so, especially given that the economic analysis presented is an extremely one-sided one being put forward as fact.

Well, living in it this is the way I see the situation... but you can argue to the contrary based on whatever you like....
I just see how the middle class has lost buying power massively over the last 15 years, with salaries basically the same, and energy and gas prices tripling in the same time frame... can you argue of the contrary? nowadays we are at a point where Italy's middle class is wondering if they can afford to keep a car... much less allow a son to drive carts etc....

[BDunnell]

Well, living in it this is the way I see the situation... but you can argue to the contrary based on whatever you like....
I just see how the middle class has lost buying power massively over the last 15 years, with salaries basically the same, and energy and gas prices tripling in the same time frame... can you argue of the contrary? nowadays we are at a point where Italy's middle class is wondering if they can afford to keep a car... much less allow a son to drive carts etc....

I can't argue against any of that if it's true — I have no idea what the figures are. What I would say is that Italy has been 'blessed' with a political class far worse than any to be found in any other European nation, no matter what one's views on politicians in general might be.

[ArrowsFA1]

Asked if Ferrari could be interested in promoting Italian drivers, di Montezemolo replied: "It's a long story - let's see what comes out of the Ferrari Driver Academy.

"The real problem is that there's no opportunity for young drivers. Let's say I come up with three super strong Italians coming from minor formulas. What is next?

"I can't have them testing with the F1 car because testing is banned. Make them race with the 458 GT is a different job.

"I have an idea: giving a minor team a Ferrari from the previous year and forcing them to field a young Italian. That would be fantastic..."
Ferrari says customer car idea would facilitate the development of young Italian drivers - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97991)

[AndyL]

Luca suggesting putting a 3rd Ferrari on the grid? Well there's a surprise :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

Luca suggesting putting a 3rd Ferrari on the grid? Well there's a surprise :rolleyes:
Exactly. Luca's customer car idea has always gone nowhere when he's raised it before, but now I suppose he can blame the FIA and other teams for the lack of Italians in F1 :p :

[jens]

Maybe next Monte's idea is that every team must field at least one 'local' driver. :p :

[steveaki13]

Maybe next Monte's idea is that every team must field at least one 'local' driver. :p :

Each team to have a lower powered 3rd car promoting a local young driver, and we can have a two class field like endurance racing. :p :

[Tazio]

Exactly. Luca's customer car idea has always gone nowhere when he's raised it before, but now I suppose he can blame the FIA and other teams for the lack of Italians in F1 :p :


Maybe next Monte's idea is that every team must field at least one 'local' driver. :p

It doesn't take much for a Capo in the Anglo/Mafia to turn this story into an antagonistic rant. This thread started with your buddy Patrese talking about bringing Italians into F1, now you’re trashing Luca for having an opinion. I have news for you;
Luca has a lot more to say about whom drives for Ferrari than a whole boat load of has beens.
What a useless thread. :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Looks like Ferrari should just go back to the Anglo-German team they were a few years ago, forget about trying to become more Italian, unless they want into the pizza business.

[Garry Walker]

Looks like Ferrari should just go back to the Anglo-German team they were a few years ago, forget about trying to become more Italian, unless they want into the pizza business.

To be honest, I hope they get more italian and keep stefano running the team for another 40 years. That way they are guaranteed to fail and let's be honest, we all enjoy that.

[pino]

To be honest, I hope they get more italian and keep stefano running the team for another 40 years. That way they are guaranteed to fail and let's be honest, we all enjoy that.

You and a few more in here will enjoy it...not everyone as you wish ;) btw why so much hate towards Ferrari and the italians ? :s

[ArrowsFA1]

...now you’re trashing Luca for having an opinion...
To explain my :p in more detail.

Luca has been pushing the idea of customer cars for quite some time, and to date it has gone absolutely nowhere. He knows that, but his comments attempt to link the introduction of customer cars with the issue of the lack of Italians in F1 as if that's the solution.

Yes, I am criticising Luca for making a token gesture, as opposed to doing anything meaningful when it come to supporting Italian drivers. You may argue whether Ferrari should, or should not, do more which is why I started this thread having spoken to a former driver about this in some detail.

If you'd like to contribute rather more constructively you're more than welcome.

[ioan]

You and a few more in here will enjoy it...not everyone as you wish ;) btw why so much hate towards Ferrari and the italians ? :s

Nothing to do with Ferrari as per se, but with the muppets that destroyed Ferrari as it was and as we loved it.
Chief Muppet LdM felt that his power within the team has been usurped by Todt, Brawn and MS so he pushed out the best people in the team one by one.
First he removed MS.
Then as MS was leaving Brawn suddenly decided he wants a sabbatical.
Then Todt was 'moved' to Ferrari global business and Stefano muppet was installed as boss of the team, other then inheriting the structure and the latest car supervised by MS, Brawn and Todt, dear Stefano did manage to throw away the WDC title for Massa with a truckload of stupid decisions on the pit wall.
When Brawn was asked to come back he wanted the team principal role but he was not considered to be as good as dear Stefano. We all know who did go on to win the championships one season later.

Enough to not like the current bunch of Ferrari so called 'management'.