WRC bodyshells

[Langdale Forest]

In a WRC car, if the roll cage gets damaged, does the entire bodyshell need to be rebulilt?

[dimviii]

In a WRC car, if the roll cage gets damaged, does the entire bodyshell need to be rebulilt?

depends from the damage

[ProRally]

In a WRC car, if the roll cage gets damaged, does the entire bodyshell need to be rebulilt?

FIA rules say that the roll cage manufacturer can repair the roll cage, and as all WRCar makers make their own cage, they can repair damages.
But like dimvii says, depends how BIG the damage....

If main hoop is bend .... I doubt it....
If small dent near roof section, probably they will repair it

[Spud]

I agree...it all depends on the damage...

[kiil]

I was at Msport a year ago, and if i remember correct they have only scrapped 2 Focus bodyshells, both involved in fires. All others repaired, even the one from Latvalas Portugal crash. A new shell costs around 80000 pounds, so there can go plenty of hours into repairing a damaged shell.

http://www.rallybuzz.com/photos/Rally-Poland-2009/Latvala%20crash%20Rally%20Portugal.jpg

[Mirek]

What the hell costs 800 thousand pounds on a bodyshell? Fabia S2000 bodyshell costs something like 24 thousand (as a spare part, not for manufacturer to produce), the rollcage is similar spec. made of very expensive Heggemann tubes. That's still expensive like hell although four times less. It's not a space shuttle. I can't understand these prices...

[kiil]

Just referring what we were told :-) It takes about 1000 man hours to just do the shell. The Focus was built from a naked floor pan. They then added most of the roll cage, and then put on all the panels around the floor pan and cage.

And its 80 thousand, not 800 thousand, still crazy money though :-)

[Mirek]

Of course 80, sorry ;) AFAIK Fabia bodyshell is built same way from the floor platform. That's one of the reasons I don't get the price. For me it's just crazy :)

[kiil]

Everything about WRC cars is crazy :-)

[cali]

Of course 80, sorry ;) AFAIK Fabia bodyshell is built same way from the floor platform. That's one of the reasons I don't get the price. For me it's just crazy :)
Maybe has something to do with british salaries? Man hours cost more than in Czech Rep. or maybe Wilson is good businessman :D Still crazy money.

[Allyc85]

Didnt Latvala's Focus from Portugal even go on to win another event?

[kiil]

Yes it did, i think it was Sweden the following year.

[janvanvurpa]

Of course 80, sorry ;) AFAIK Fabia bodyshell is built same way from the floor platform. That's one of the reasons I don't get the price. For me it's just crazy :)



Mirek, one question may answer the question: Is Malcolm Wilson involved in making the Skoda bodyshells?

[Mirek]

I don't want to put all the blame on Wilson ;) I think the fault is in system which allows that rather than in companies themselves(I don't consider Škoda parts cheap either - I just use it as a benchmark because I know the prices ;) ).

[dimviii]

Didnt Latvala's Focus from Portugal even go on to win another event?

don t believe everything you read.

[kiil]

don t believe everything you read.

The chassis number won an event.

[dimviii]

The chassis number won an event.

thats what they said.
an accidental chassis like this,needs much more hours to make it proper,than to build a new one.
At these level of accident is impossible to repair a so stretched chassis with roll cage.Except if you change all the parts,keeping just the serial number,a metal piece with 10cm x 6cm .....

[adr17]

thats what they said.
an accidental chassis like this,needs much more hours to make it proper,than to build a new one.
At these level of accident is impossible to repair a so stretched chassis with roll cage.Except if you change all the parts,keeping just the serial number,a metal piece with 10cm x 6cm .....

jari s portugal was completly rebuilt no chassis plate swaps your talking crap as usual ! the fia fits seals to serveral parts of the roll cage to identifying chassis , and i have seen main hoops replaced many times !

new wrc cars are not built from floor plan as they used too because your not allowed to remove any internal panels now so no advantage ,just remove roof , on the focus when built from a floorpan they left out panels like inner sills inner b pillars and had hand fabricated chassis legs from thinner material , the focus had to run sill weights which were lockwired in by fia because shell so light . lighter than fiesta shell

the fia arent as stupid as you think

a briefcase full of numberplates and chassis numbers finished in the 1990s

[dimviii]

jari s portugal was completly rebuilt no chassis plate swaps your talking crap as usual ! the fia fits seals to serveral parts of the roll cage to identifying chassis , and i have seen main hoops replaced many times !

new wrc cars are not built from floor plan as they used too because your not allowed to remove any internal panels now so no advantage ,just remove roof , on the focus when built from a floorpan they left out panels like inner sills inner b pillars and had hand fabricated chassis legs from thinner material , the focus had to run sill weights which were lockwired in by fia because shell so light . lighter than fiesta shell

the fia arent as stupid as you think

a briefcase full of numberplates and chassis numbers finished in the 1990s

So you think that THIS chassis because of fia lockwired can be repaired.lololololololololololololol
and the cost will be less than building a new one.lolololololololololol
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/ralli/2009/670264.jpg

[WRCS14]

I agree with Dimvii also, I read an article on Jarris Portugal car produced from Ford official maybe but I recall the article had maybe an Environmental angle too it, i.e. look at us we nearly destroy a rally car but then we recycle it back into a brand new one sort of thing.

I think some one else said in this case it would probably be easier to take a new shell and build it to new WRC spec, than to put 4 men taking this car apart for a few days, then cutting out the broken roll cags and then spend some many more days re patching in new bars. I dont think Mr Wilson carries out too many activities that dont make financial sense.

Plus after all the rolling over so many times the supsension mounting points have been flexed and even slightly changed, if this was a private customer then yes they would probably say just patch the car up and get it back together so I can re-use it or sell it. I think a factory level company would want everything on the car perfectly alligned and un-stressed.

[dimviii]

I agree with Dimvii also, I read an article on Jarris Portugal car produced from Ford official maybe but I recall the article had maybe an Environmental angle too it, i.e. look at us we nearly destroy a rally car but then we recycle it back into a brand new one sort of thing.

I think some one else said in this case it would probably be easier to take a new shell and build it to new WRC spec, than to put 4 men taking this car apart for a few days, then cutting out the broken roll cags and then spend some many more days re patching in new bars. I dont think Mr Wilson carries out too many activities that dont make financial sense.

Plus after all the rolling over so many times the supsension mounting points have been flexed and even slightly changed, if this was a private customer then yes they would probably say just patch the car up and get it back together so I can re-use it or sell it. I think a factory level company would want everything on the car perfectly alligned and un-stressed.

there is NOT ONE piece of this car you can use again.As you can see from photo,there is no ONE piece of roll cage you can use to repair.
That m-sport wants to use this for marketing reasons is another point.There is not the first time, we are going to read a bs press release from them,trying to present the white as black.Its better to use their brain to win,instead to support, that they repair this debris to a right wrc car.At the same time they sell new chassis to their customers because of ''rebuild necessary''

[Viking]

Probably an publicity stunt by M-Sport, they wanted to show that they could repaire it, not that it was smart to do so...

Safe landing (http://www.fiainstitute.com/media-centre/features/Pages/feature-06.aspx)

[janvanvurpa]

Just referring what we were told :-) It takes about 1000 man hours to just do the shell. The Focus was built from a naked floor pan. They then added most of the roll cage, and then put on all the panels around the floor pan and cage.

And its 80 thousand, not 800 thousand, still crazy money though :-)

You know I have a book in my hand that is called "How to Prepare the Sierra for Motorsport..
In it it says ""as a guide it may take more than 100 hours to prepare a bodyshell to this spec.."
Stitch welded, reinforced, caged...

Sierra 100+ hours
Fawk-us 1000+ hours.

How? (I have prepare and caged a fair number of body shells) How 1000hrs?
Somebody taking the name of the car too seriously? Fawk-us?

[Viking]

Subaru/Prodrive said back in the days, chassis preparation before painting, 650 man hours, complete car 1400.

[dimviii]

Subaru/Prodrive said back in the days, chassis preparation before painting, 650 man hours, complete car 1400.

tte for corolla wrc just for chassis 400 hours they claimed.

[kiil]

I've seen the stuff they care to repair, both at Msport and Prodrive, and believe me, it has to be very very very damaged to not be repaired. If it takes 1000 hours to prepare a new shell, then it makes perfectly sense to spend 500 or 600 repairing one.

This gallery tells you something about the amount of hours that will be spend to repair a damaged WRC shell:

http://gallery.me.com/b.munster#100305&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=29

[adr17]

So you think that THIS chassis because of fia lockwired can be repaired.lololololololololololololol
and the cost will be less than building a new one.lolololololololololol
http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/ralli/2009/670264.jpg

lets face facts

so all of your guys making these posts are qualified bodyshell technicians in wrc ? no do you work in any wrc teams so actually have first hand knowledge ? no , basically all you do is sit on the internet talking crap that you know nothing about !

do i work for said wrc team ? yes , have i ever seen a wrc shell scrapped ? no did i see jari s car on the jig getting repaired ? yes , did you guys? no but your still commentint about it like your gods . i seen many shells with main hoop being replaced and the fia dont lockwire seals on the shell muppet its a barcoded seal stuck to the tube in 4 differnt points ( and before you say it you cant remove it and stick it back on as it falls apart when removed )

you forget malcolm wilson was a scrapyard owner before m-sport so literally will throw nothing away

when you actually know things for a fact then you can comminent on things

[adr17]

I've seen the stuff they care to repair, both at Msport and Prodrive, and believe me, it has to be very very very damaged to not be repaired. If it takes 1000 hours to prepare a new shell, then it makes perfectly sense to spend 500 or 600 repairing one.

This gallery tells you something about the amount of hours that will be spend to repair a damaged WRC shell:

MobileMe Gallery (http://gallery.me.com/b.munster#100305&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=29)

even though you got pictures dimviii hasnt comfirmed its been repaired because he knows better than you even though he s never been near a wrc shell shop

[dimviii]

lets face facts

so all of your guys making these posts are qualified bodyshell technicians in wrc ? no do you work in any wrc teams so actually have first hand knowledge ? no , basically all you do is sit on the internet talking crap that you know nothing about !
Some guys from here can adjust sequential gear boxes,repair a dog-box,have prepared more chassis than you,can adjust a 4 way suspension at their drivers requests,and can tweek an antilag map in a motec or a pectel.Can you?


do i work for said wrc team ? yes , have i ever seen a wrc shell scrapped ? no did i see jari s car on the jig getting repaired ? yes , did you guys? no but your still commentint about it like your gods . i seen many shells with main hoop being replaced and the fia dont lockwire seals on the shell muppet its a barcoded seal stuck to the tube in 4 differnt points ( and before you say it you cant remove it and stick it back on as it falls apart when removed )
That you work for a wrc team doesn t proof that you have better knowledge.At wrc teams they have also gardeners,cookers,lorry drivers.Some guys from here have rally teams with 3-4 cars,they dont just ''work for a wrc team''.So dont try to impress us that you work for a wrc team. If you were a proffesional bodyshell tecnician,you would now that this car needs much more hours to make it a proper car when you have to replace 80-90% of the shell.Trying to streighten this havoc with such a welded cage is stupid even regardless of cost.Thats why at your customers just for rebuild you quote e new chassis muppet.And that is not the only case i know for a replacement chassis at rebuild.
Ford Fiesta S2000 - 750 BDK (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/cars/ford-fiesta-s2000/64)

so what damage had this chassis you quote for replacement?Was it at worst condition than Jaris car?Show us the damage from this chassis wrc employ!!




you forget malcolm wilson was a scrapyard owner before m-sport so literally will throw nothing away !
thats right,this chassis only a scrapyard would repair it.


when you actually know things for a fact then you can comminent on things
Doubt it that you know what are you talking.Just support your boss marketing tricks .

[dimviii]

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/ralli/2009/670264.jpg
even though you got pictures dimviii hasnt comfirmed its been repaired because he knows better than you even though he s never been near a wrc shell shop

you work at a wrc team and you compare the damage,the man hours,and the spares cost between these 2 cars? Oh dear....
http://gallery.me.com/b.munster/100305/IMG00174-20090820-1353/web.jpg?ver=12511095260002

[kiil]

you work at a wrc team and you compare the damage,the man hours,and the spares cost between these 2 cars? Oh dear....

I'm sure is doesn't matter that much if a tube is bend a little or a lot, it has to be changed anyway. But agreed, Latvalas needed more work, but don't tell me the Subaru was an easy job. I really don't understand where you are going with this, is it too hard accepting that they might have repaired Latvalas Portugal shell, even though you don't think it makes sense?

[bubbaontour]

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/urheilu/ralli/2009/670264.jpg

you work at a wrc team and you compare the damage,the man hours,and the spares cost between these 2 cars? Oh dear....
http://gallery.me.com/b.munster/100305/IMG00174-20090820-1353/web.jpg?ver=12511095260002

I dont understand what your geting at? whats that ment to mean?

[bluuford]

I dont understand what your geting at? whats that ment to mean?

You know, looking Latvalas car and this accident, I think that its was one of those emotionalsayings by Malcolm that we all sometimes do: "lets try, if we can fix this piece of junk" Ok! it took more time than building new and maybe cost more but it was good marketing trick to make some headlines again "M-Sports workshop was able to repari the car the fell down from the ende of the earth"
:-)

[bluuford]

I dont understand what your geting at? whats that ment to mean?

You know, looking Latvalas car and this accident, I think that its was one of those emotionalsayings by Malcolm that we all sometimes do: "lets try, if we can fix this piece of junk" Ok! it took more time than building new and maybe cost more but it was good marketing trick to make some headlines again "M-Sports workshop was able to repari the car the fell down from the ende of the earth"
:-)

[Viking]

Pr stunt or not, here is the story from Wilson 2010

World Rally Championship - News - News Archive - Latvala's Focus resurrected for Sweden (http://www.wrc.com/news/archive/latvalas-focus-resurrected-for-sweden/?fid=11796)

[dimviii]

I'm sure is doesn't matter that much if a tube is bend a little or a lot, it has to be changed anyway. But agreed, Latvalas needed more work, but don't tell me the Subaru was an easy job. I really don't understand where you are going with this, is it too hard accepting that they might have repaired Latvalas Portugal shell, even though you don't think it makes sense?

i didn t told that subaru hadnt a lot of work.I compare it with Latvalas focus.Of course they might have repair it,even they kept the chassis number,or the 1/5 of rollcage.But will they do the same if it was a customer car?Or they would sell you a new bodyshell as the link above???Why at customers case didn t repaired the shell?A shell that wasn t for garbage?

[kiil]

i didn t told that subaru hadnt a lot of work.I compare it with Latvalas focus.Of course they might have repair it,even they kept the chassis number,or the 1/5 of rollcage.But will they do the same if it was a customer car?Or they would sell you a new bodyshell as the link above???Why at customers case didn t repaired the shell?A shell that wasn t for garbage?

You are comparing a Super 2000 shell with a WRC shell. Msport has only binned 2 WRC shells from all the Focus' ever build. Don't compare them with a Fiesta S2000. Please remember that almost all these cars are insured when they crash, and it's often the decision of the insurance company whether to rebuild or reshell. And if a WRC shell is 80000 GBP, there can be spend a lot of hours repairing a damaged shell.

[dimviii]

You are comparing a Super 2000 shell with a WRC shell. Msport has only binned 2 WRC shells from all the Focus' ever build. Don't compare them with a Fiesta S2000. Please remember that almost all these cars are insured when they crash, and it's often the decision of the insurance company whether to rebuild or reshell. And if a WRC shell is 80000 GBP, there can be spend a lot of hours repairing a damaged shell.
fiesta s2000 and fiesta wrc have almost identical chassis.

[OldF]

The 80000 £ is probably the selling price, not the costs of making it. I don’t know about the salaries in GB but if a mechanic have a salary of 15 £ / hour, 1000 hours of work would mean 15000 £ as salary. Of course there are many other cost factors (administration, facilities etc.) that should be taking into account before determine the margin and selling price.

The body shells of modern cars are that strong that at least here in Finland with the smooth roads it’s not necessary to do so much welding compared for example in the 90s.

[kiil]

fiesta s2000 and fiesta wrc have almost identical chassis.

Yes, and this is a Focus, not a Fiesta.

[dimviii]

Yes, and this is a Focus, not a Fiesta.
We can see it.Can you explain your point, as the current wrc and s2000 chassis have identical cost?
Why Msport replace the customers chassis after a rebuild,while the works car after 150 meters down the hill they repair?

[bluuford]

Well, this Fiesta S2000 got very strong impact. It was the car that Turan crashed in Hungary. Remember the log and later when he went directly into the trees? That was two very strong impacts, one threw the car out from the road, the other stopped it on the trees, while for Focus, it was rolling and got many smaller impacts but not such a rapid impact that stopped the car from 100+km/h in one moment. I remember that Turans car looked very, very bent in many angles.

[kiil]

We can see it.Can you explain your point, as the current wrc and s2000 chassis have identical cost?
Why Msport replace the customers chassis after a rebuild,while the works car after 150 meters down the hill they repair?

You are asking why Msport is replacing a customer S2000 Fiesta shell, and repairing a works WRC Focus shell. 2 different car types. 2 different chassis types. 2 different prices. 2 difficult 2 understand? :-)

[dimviii]

You are asking why Msport is replacing a customer S2000 Fiesta shell, and repairing a works WRC Focus shell. 2 different car types. 2 different chassis types. 2 different prices. 2 difficult 2 understand? :-)

ok you havent got answer.Point taken.Good night.

[kiil]

ok you havent got answer.Point taken.Good night.

Pfffff....

[Potoklosis]

About Turan crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7U7RYcX0WA&feature=related


Anybody who can fix those wheels is a f... wizard