Name that Car 2

[Chris R]

ok, this is just a car and driver photo.....

[SoCalPVguy]

Bruce McLaren (L) and Chris Amon (R) ???

[Chris R]

Driver(s) are right - how about the car??

[Phoenixent]

Car-Mclaren M15-Offy
Year-1970

[Chris R]

Phoenix has the second part of the puzzle. Phoenix, it is your turn unless you want to pass the turn to SoCalPVGuy since he got part 1.......

[champcarray]

It's really odd to see Mario in an Essex-sponsored champ car. Essex sponsored Lotus F1 a year too late -- after Mario won the championship with JPS livery.

[champcarray]

Great pic! It's interesting to see a car with a rear wing ahead of the rear wheels.

[SoCalPVguy]

I'll try and see if I can insert a photo...
Here is an oldie...
Year, Driver, Track, and type of car (not mfgr. "-" Special)

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/e96e_1.JPG

[Chris R]

I am gong to guess Duane Carter in a Levosky-Offy at Indy in 1951. It was the Belanger Special...

[SoCalPVguy]

Chris that is such a good answer I almost hate to tell you 'wrong year' (my source says '52). Close enough for me, how did you find this one out, was it that easy ?

You are up for the next on !!!

[Chris R]

opps, I meant 1952 anyway - thanks! It was a fairly easy one to deduce - I was pretty confident that it was the Belanger Special Oike the one that Lee Wallard won with in 1951 - so after that it was just a matter of finding when the Belanger and #1 were together and who the driver was... Amazing that just before the roadsters started their run that a straight out dirt track car won the 500.... great photo!

ok, here's the next.... you only have ot et the clearly visible car, track, year, driver.....

[BobGarage]

1995
Paul Tracy
Newman-Haas / Lola / Ford
Phoenix?

The blurred driver could be Adrian Fernandez?

[Chris R]

Everything is right except the track - although you are in the right size and configuration range....

I think you are probably right about Fernandez - but it is kind of blurry to tell for sure and I was not sure if the Herdez car had similar colors....

[BobGarage]

nazareth then?

[Phoenixent]

Milwaukee

[Chris R]

no and no - we are running out of short ovals huh??

[BobGarage]

new hampshire

[Chris R]

bob has it!! your turn!

[BobGarage]

the usual please....

[Civic]

Jan Magnussen (in for Paul Tracy)
Mid-Ohio
Penske-Ilmor-Goodyear PC-25
1996

[BobGarage]

all correct.

your turn

[Civic]

Someone can take my turn. There are fires all around and I might have to evacuate. My brother lives 3 miles from me and his neighborhood at mandatory evacuations. I'm packing all my stuff, including my computer. At least my boss called to tell me that I don't have to work today!

[Alexamateo]

Someone can take my turn. There are fires all around and I might have to evacuate. My brother lives 3 miles from me and his neighborhood at mandatory evacuations. I'm packing all my stuff, including my computer. At least my boss called to tell me that I don't have to work today!

Yikes Civic :s Take care of yourself, and your family. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers.

If anyone doesn't mind, I'll post one I've wanted to show for a little while.

[Chris R]

Civic - best of luck to you - it looks like a bad situation from the news reports....

Alex - great photo - I think I know what it is but I do not remember any of the details - hopefully someone else can fill in all the blanks!!

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Dan Gurney
Year- 1962
Car- Moore -P&W Turbine
Track- Indianapoils

The turbine was worked on by crew chiefs from Curtis LeMay's Strategic Air Command. :cool:

[Alexamateo]

Yep, the first turbine was in 1962, not 1967. It was a DNQ. (Gurney would drive a Buick engined Mickey Thompson machine in the 500 that year.)

Also, something else I didn't know until just now. Gurney is listed as also passing his rookie test that year in a John Zink Trackburner #72 Watson-Offy. I had no idea he had ever driven an Indy roadster, but he did. :)

You're up Phoenix!

[Phoenixent]

Yep, the first turbine was in 1962, not 1967. It was a DNQ. (Gurney would drive a Buick engined Mickey Thompson machine in the 500 that year.)

Also, something else I didn't know until just now. Gurney is listed as also passing his rookie test that year in a John Zink Trackburner #72 Watson-Offy. I had no idea he had ever driven an Indy roadster, but he did. :)

You're up Phoenix!

Nice photo AM. :up:

I have a photo somewhere of General LeMay checking out the turbine installation.

New Photo coming up

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter15.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/10/008/3B/DF/AB/96/siCh8bV1g5aX7V-LSteRIVLzPRiP0wy901F4.jpg

[BobGarage]

Ross Cheever
Lola Chevy
1992
Portland

[Phoenixent]

Ross Cheever
Lola Chevy
1992
Portland

You Are Correct. :up:

I wonder which Cheever brother AJ like the most. :rolleyes: :)

Your Turn.

[BobGarage]

the usual please

[mlv]

Steve Butler
LolaT8700-Cosworth
1989 Indy practice (DNQ-crashed)

[BobGarage]

yep, well done.
your turn

[mlv]

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/6235/whorh2.th.jpg (http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whorh2.jpg)
?

[Alexamateo]

Herm Johnson Eagle Chevy
Bobby Unser Penske PC9b Cosworth
Phoenix
1981

[mlv]

correct
your turn

[Alexamateo]

I'll post a photo tonight or tomorrow morning, In the meantime, enjoy this great article. Heck, it might even merit it's own thread.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/indycar/auto/41236/

[Alexamateo]

Next one:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb87/Rickysuave44/1980%20Cal%20500/0ab01274.jpg

[Chris R]

awesome photo of a really unfortunately painted car... Looking at the car that way it really does look like an FW-08... I'll leave it to someone else since I have nothign to share right now...

Also, awesome article.....

[mlv]

Al Unser
Longhorn LR01-Cosworth
1980 Ontario (California 500)

[Alexamateo]

Al Unser
Longhorn LR01-Cosworth
1980 Ontario (California 500)

correct, your turn.

[mlv]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9695/whoan8.th.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whoan8.jpg)

Usual questions...

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #1 Tom Sneva and Car #40 Wally Dallenbach
Year- 1979
Car- Car #1 McLaren M24-Cosworth and Car #40 Penske PC6-Cosworth
Track- Trenton

[mlv]

Yes, Ditzler 150. Your turn Phoenixent.

[Phoenixent]

Driver & Passenger, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/16/008/26/FE/6E/C7/H3uW7-8HO6RzSQkkN1RABCoVCvEklwcp015E.jpg

[BobGarage]

Driver: Mario Andretti
Passenger: Chip Ganassi
Car: Reynard 2 seater???
Year: 1999
Track: Laguna Seca

[Phoenixent]

Driver: Mario Andretti
Passenger: Chip Ganassi
Car: Reynard 2 seater???
Year: 1999
Track: Laguna Seca

You are Correct. :up:

I found this photo by chance figured it would begreat to post it. Chip still has this two seater hanging on the wall with other old Ganassi racers.

Your Turn.

[BobGarage]

this one is probably going to be fairly easy....

both drivers/cars and the usual please....

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #2 Roberto Guerrero and Car #20 Emerson Fittipaldi
Year- 1986
Car- Car #2 March 86C-Cosworth and Car #20 March 86C-Cosworth
Track- Laguna Seca

[BobGarage]

all correct :)

I'm surprised it lasted 8 days.

Your turn.

[Phoenixent]

I'm surprised it lasted 8 days.


Me too. :D

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/17/008/2B/EF/66/95/X9P2IZbT1Ga8hO7w-G+EZPpO8KGMOEOK0261.jpg

[Phoenixent]

Hello. :D

[BobGarage]

Bobby Unser
1978
Eagle-Cosworth
Milwaukee Mile???

[Phoenixent]

Bobby Unser
1978
Eagle-Cosworth
Milwaukee Mile???

You Are Correct. :up:

That was a long stint for that photo. :D

Your Turn.

[BobGarage]

this should be an easy one....

[BobGarage]

*cough*

[champcarray]

Tonis Kasemets testing in the snow for Dale Coyne Racing at the Chicago Autobahn track. Unfortunately, I don't know the specific car model he was driving...

[BobGarage]

i'll give you that as this thread seems to have slowed down a bit.
He was in a Lola.

your turn.

[champcarray]

I knew it was a Lola, just don't know the model number. Here's my photo for you all. I'm not sure of the driver on the right...

[champcarray]

Hmm, the picture seems to be coming through very small. I'll see if I can fix that.

[champcarray]

Now I can't get the photo upload tool to work on this site. Aargh.

[nanders]

I knew it was a Lola, just don't know the model number. Here's my photo for you all. I'm not sure of the driver on the right...

Franchitti
1998
Reynard
Nazarath

[champcarray]

I don't know why, but I am having problems uploading photos to the site. Nanders, please take my turn. FYI, the photo I tried to upload show Fernandez in a Reynard at Nazareth in 2001...

[Alexamateo]

Sorry about breaking in line, but I decided to post this because of news today. Driver Car Track Year, and as a bonus, Who are the co-owners?

[champcarray]

From brickyard-dot-com: "Legendary daredevil Evel Knievel, who died Nov. 30 at age 69, sponsored the entry driven by popular veteran Gary Bettenhausen in the 1977 Indianapolis 500. Bettenhausen started 21st and finished 16th in the No. 98 Agajanian/Evel Knievel Dragon/Offy, dropping out with clutch problems after completing 138 laps."

[champcarray]

Thanks for posting that photo -- an interesting link I didn't know. How did you? I'll just keep things moving and post this photo I found online. Driver name, year, and car, please!

FYI, it appears to be for sale, if you're interested...

[Phoenixent]

Thanks for posting that photo -- an interesting link I didn't know. How did you? I'll just keep things moving and post this photo I found online. Driver name, year, and car, please!

FYI, it appears to be for sale, if you're interested...


Driver- Arie Luyendyk
Year- 1984
Car- March 84C-Cosworth

Nice show car painted up like the 1985 Lola T-900. Arie drove the March once in 1984 at Elkhart Lake it was yellow and had the number 16 on it. Very

Cool car if I had the money I would buy it.

[champcarray]

You got it, Phoenix. Your turn.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/18/004/1E/FB/5B/07/8Pdk7z47PbSpAnE1afecoCF2x7kpCs8M01F4.jpg

[champcarray]

I'm sure it's just an optical illusion, but doesn't it look like the driver of #38 is looking at the camera?!

[Alexamateo]

#97 Jerry Miller King Chevy
#46 Gary Bettenhausen Orbiter-Cosworth
#38 Jerry Karl Karl-Chevy

Phoenix II 1980

[Phoenixent]

#97 Jerry Miller King Chevy
#46 Gary Bettenhausen Orbiter-Cosworth
#38 Jerry Karl Karl-Chevy

Phoenix II 1980

You Are Correct. :up:

It was a nice mix of cars in that photo. The King and Karl(McLaren mod) from CART's(USAC) past and the Orbitor(March) starting the Kit car era for CART.

Your Turn.

[Alexamateo]

The usual info please!

[nanders]

The usual info please!

Mansell
Lola
Phoenix practice
1993

[Alexamateo]

Mansell
Lola
Phoenix practice
1993

Yep! you're up!

You know, Mansell won every oval race he ran that year except for Indianapolis. This was Mario's last win. One wonders if Mario would have won if Mansell had been able to race.

[nanders]

http://champcar.com/GuessWho.jpg

[Alexamateo]

Roberto Moreno
Lola Ford
Milwaukee
1996

[nanders]

Roberto Moreno
Lola Ford
Milwaukee
1996

close, need the track

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Roberto Moreno
Car- Lola T96 - Ford
Track- Nazareth
Year- 1996

[nanders]

Driver- Roberto Moreno
Car- Lola T96 - Ford
Track- Nazareth
Year- 1996

It's a roadie .... used to have red armco .....

[Alexamateo]

MId-Ohio?

[nanders]

you got it Alex

[Alexamateo]

you got it Alex

We're back up I see.

Driver, Car Track, Year

[BobGarage]

Lloyd Ruby
1962
Watson-Offy
Indy

???

[Alexamateo]

Lloyd Ruby
1962
Watson-Offy
Indy

???

Right track, wrong Driver, car & year.

Keep trying :)

[BobGarage]

Jack Brabham
Brabham-Offy
1964
Indy

???

[Alexamateo]

Jack Brabham
Brabham-Offy
1964
Indy

???

You got it ! :bounce:

[BobGarage]

both cars, both drviers, year and track please.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #20 Gordon Johncock and Car #30 Howdy Holmes
Year- 1983
Car- Car #20 March 83C-Cosworth and Car #30 March 83C-Cosworth
Track- Michigan

[BobGarage]

Drivers- Car #20 Gordon Johncock and Car #30 Howdy Holmes
Year- 1983
Car- Car #20 Wildcat IX-Cosworth and Car #30 March 83C-Cosworth
Track- Atlanta

Drivers - correct
year - correct
Car - #20 correct engine, wrong car*. #30 all correct
Track - wrong


* that is according to champ car stats where I have just double checked to be sure.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers - correct
year - correct
Car - #20 correct engine, wrong car*. #30 all correct
Track - wrong


* that is according to champ car stats where I have just double checked to be sure.

Drivers- Car #20 Gordon Johncock and Car #30 Howdy Holmes
Year- 1983
Car- Car #20 March 83C-Cosworth and Car #30 March 83C-Cosworth
Track- Michigan

[BobGarage]

Drivers- Car #20 Gordon Johncock and Car #30 Howdy Holmes
Year- 1983
Car- Car #20 March 83C-Cosworth and Car #30 March 83C-Cosworth
Track- Michigan

all correct. your go.

[Phoenixent]

all correct. your go.

Cool Photo. :up:

Patrick Racing must of had a hard time that year with the mid-season change of chassis.

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/19/008/56/FF/33/12/AqUN9y8KyjOZfGIbB85V8Vl4wqO1Z0N70190.jpg

[Chris R]

Great photo!!

Sears Point
1970
#55 = Ludwig Heimrath Eisert Chevy
#100 = John Mahler Eagle Chevy
not sure, but I think the car in the distance is Steve Krisloff in a Gerhardt-Ford
if that is true, it is ironic that these 3 cars finished together in the race (albeit 13,14,and 15)

[Phoenixent]

Great photo!!

Sears Point
1970
#55 = Ludwig Heimrath Eisert Chevy
#100 = John Mahler Eagle Chevy
not sure, but I think the car in the distance is Steve Krisloff in a Gerhardt-Ford
if that is true, it is ironic that these 3 cars finished together in the race (albeit 13,14,and 15)

Glad you like it I have more from this set of other cars and drivers. :)

You are right on all the drivers including Krisloff. Also on the cars and the year.

But wrong track. Keep Digging. :up:

[Chris R]

I'll go with Castle Rock then....

[Alexamateo]

I think it's Milwaukee, Mahler and Heimrath entered, but dnq.

btw Chris, as a nurseryman, you should know those aren't Colorado trees in the background! ;)

[Phoenixent]

I think it's Milwaukee, Mahler and Heimrath entered, but dnq.

btw Chris, as a nurseryman, you should know those aren't Colorado trees in the background! ;)

You are Correct AM. :up:

The pit area sure has changed in Milwaukee. Chris picked some great tracks trying to figure out the location of this photo. :up:

Your Turn. :D

[Alexamateo]

You are Correct AM. :up:

The pit area sure has changed in Milwaukee. Chris picked some great tracks trying to figure out the location of this photo. :up:

Your Turn. :D

Thanks, I've used background trees and topography to figure out which track it is more than once. It's useful for figuring out time of year and area of country etc, etc.

Anyway, moving back into the 21st century.

Driver car track year

[BobGarage]

Matt Halliday
Conquest Racing - Panoz DP01 - Cosworth
Laguna Seca - Spring Training
2007

[Alexamateo]

Matt Halliday
Conquest Racing - Panoz DP01 - Cosworth
Laguna Seca - Spring Training
2007

That's it!

You're turn. :) :up:

[BobGarage]

the usual please:-

[Civic]

Mimmo Schiatarella
Reynard-Ilmor (it might even be an R97I)
Long Beach
1998

[BobGarage]

Mimmo Schiatarella
Reynard-Ilmor (it might even be an R97I)
Long Beach
1998

all correct (it was the r98i).

your turn.

[Civic]

I'll find a pic after work tomorrow. I was there at Long Beach that year on Friday and Saturday (both days had rain, while race day was sunny) and I seem to remember that one of the smaller teams was using an R97I and I thought it was Mimmo.

[Civic]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/HybridsRacing/lolaswift.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

Just off the top of my head...
6: Mike Andretti
21: Richie Hearne
Long Beach, say... 1995
Both cars are Lolas
Ralphs I believe was a one off effort for LBGP for local sponsors

[nanders]

Aren't those Swift's? And Super speedway wings?

6: Mike Andretti
21: Richie Hearne
Swifts
1995
Indianapolis

[Civic]

The drivers are right, the tracks and years are wrong. There were no Swift Champ Cars in 1995.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #6 Michael Andretti and Car #21 Richie Hearn
Year- 1997
Car- Car #6 Swift-Ford and Car #30 Lola-Ford
Track- Michigan

[Civic]

You got the year (1997) right. You're almost there...

[MAX_THRUST]

That'll be Fontana then???

[nanders]

6: Mike Andretti
21: Richie Hearne
Swifts
1997
Fontana

[Civic]

nanders is right!

Interesting tidbit about this photo. It was Della Penna's first weekend with the Swift, and Hearn only ran it for one session before crashing. They had to switch back to the crappy 1997 Lola they ran since the beginning of the 1997 season. As most know, certain figures were off during windtunnel testing, resulting in a poorly designed undertray (the part that most people attributed to the 1997 Lola's poor performance).

Hearn's Lola had the original undertray, while Fernandez had the new one-off Fontana undertray that was designed and built after the discovery of the windtunnel miscalibration. Fernandez finished 3rd.

[nanders]

http://champcar.com/rememberwhen.jpg

[Phoenixent]

Driver- P.J. Jones
Year- 1997
Car- Reynard 97i-Toyota
Track- Laguna Seca

[nanders]

You're good! but you still need the driver.

[Phoenixent]

You're good! but you still need the driver.

Driver - Juan Fangio II

The other AAR driver. :D

[nanders]

Driver - Juan Fangio II

The other AAR driver. :D

dah dah!

[Phoenixent]

Sorry for the delay. :D Here is the next photo.

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/23/007/5F/67/02/A3/4wPVc-NxQ4E18eeAnRoNuLWyLtRDEz-N01C2.jpg

[CCFanatic]

1981
Indianapolis 500
Scott Brayton
Penske PC-6 with Cosworth TC

[Phoenixent]

1981
Indianapolis 500
Scott Brayton
Penske PC-6 with Cosworth TC

Right Driver. :up:

Keep Digging. :D

[BobGarage]

Scott Brayton
1982
Wildcat Cosworth
Phoenix

[Phoenixent]

Scott Brayton
1982
Wildcat Cosworth
Phoenix

You Are Correct. :up:

Your Turn.

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[BobGarage]

next one...

edit: arse photo didn;t work. i'll try again

[BobGarage]

second attempt

[CCFanatic]

No clue.

Dick Ferguson
Indy
Wildcat-DGS
1980

He failed to qualify.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #95 Larry Canon and Car #26 Dick Ferguson
Year- 1980
Car- Car #95 Wildcat-DGS and Car #26 Penske PC6-Cosworth
Track- Indianapolis

[BobGarage]

No clue.

Dick Ferguson
Indy
Wildcat-DGS
1980

He failed to qualify.

if your refering the the #95.

wrong driver, track and year.
correct car.

[BobGarage]

Drivers- Car #95 Larry Canon and Car #26 Dick Ferguson
Year- 1980
Car- Car #95 Wildcat-DGS and Car #26 Penske PC6-Cosworth
Track- Indianapolis

#95
right driver
right car

#26
wrong driver
wrong car

wrong year
wrong track

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #95 Larry Canon and Car #26 Dick Ferguson
Year- 1980
Car- Car #95 Wildcat-DGS and Car #26 Penske PC6-Cosworth
Track- Indianapolis

I have a photo of the #26 crashed.

[Chris R]

#95
right driver
right car

#26
wrong driver
wrong car

wrong year
wrong track

#26 sure looks like a PC-6 and I do not think there were any "clones"

[BobGarage]

my source for the photo claims its the 1981 spring phoenix race.
#95 - karry cannon - wildcat offy
#26 - jim buick - eagle chevy.

of course my source could be wrong.

your go phoenixent

[Phoenixent]

my source for the photo claims its the 1981 spring phoenix race.
#95 - karry cannon - wildcat offy
#26 - jim buick - eagle chevy.

of course my source could be wrong.

your go phoenixent

No problem on the missed ID. It happened to me also. :D

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter01.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/12/006/3F/DF/23/99/y5Jquw8-bNsaKZFZWjeF63bAJ8zCl9LM0110.jpg

[mlv]

Tom Bigelow
Eagle 81-Chevy SB
1982 Michigan 500

BTW Phoenixent was correct about previous image - Cannon & Ferguson at Indy 1980. Taken from Hungness 80 yearbook, pg 57 ,shot by well known racing photographer John Mahoney.

[Phoenixent]

Tom Bigelow
Eagle 81-Chevy SB
1982 Michigan 500

BTW Phoenixent was correct about previous image - Cannon & Ferguson at Indy 1980. Taken from Hungness 80 yearbook, pg 57 ,shot by well known racing photographer John Mahoney.

You Are Correct. :up:

It is sad as the Penske that was wrecked was Rick Mears 79 winner. I wonder if that team still has it as I heard that Roger Penske did not have the 1979 car.

Your Turn.

[mlv]

You Are Correct. :up:

It is sad as the Penske that was wrecked was Rick Mears 79 winner. I wonder if that team still has it as I heard that Roger Penske did not have the 1979 car.

Your Turn.

Penske have replica of this car in his museum in Scottsdale, Arizona. The original does not exist any more.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4637/whomj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Usual questions.

[Chris R]

looks like Michael Chandler in a Rattlesnake - I'll guess 1982 at Indy

[mlv]

Almost, it`s not Indy...

[Chris R]

How about chandler at MIS in 1983 in a Rattlesnake?

[mlv]

How about chandler at MIS in 1983 in a Rattlesnake?

Your turn

[Chris R]

ok, this is the first picture I am going to try to post from my iMac so hopefully this goes well..... file name is a bit of a give away - but you'll have to figure out the rest for yourself ;)

[nanders]

Henry Banks
Maserati-Offenhauser
IMS
1950

[SoCalPVguy]

Danny Oakes
Ferrari 375
Indy 500
1952

I found this on the 'net...

Four Ferrari 375 cars at Indy in 1952
Serial No. 1. Race #12, Ascari's factory car, only one to qualify. Retired 40th lap - collapsed wheel. Running 12th at time.

No 2. Race #6. Grant Piston Ring. Red. When Gerry Grant and his driver Johnnie Parsons went to Italy to see how the car was coming, they ended up making a deal for Parsons to run several European (probably mostly non-Champ) Grands Prix in a Ferrari 500 FII. At Indy they felt they didn't get any attention from the Italians, and Parsons bailed to an Offy. Grant announced that the Euro deal was off. Danny Oakes couldn't get it up to speed either and the car DNQ.

No. 3. Race #3. Johnny Mauro's car with Kennedy Tank sponsorship. White. Mauro really wanted the car for the Pike's Peak hillclimb and treated Indy as a lark, showing off his toy to his buddies. He never got near qualifying speed. He later crashed the car at a race in Denver, and when it returned from being repaired in Italy, it was painted in the blue that Chinetti usually used. Mauro had not told the factory to change the color. Now in the Indy Museum painted as the Ascari car (pity the poor historian).

No. 4. Race #38. Howard Keck. Mobil Oil sponsorship. Intended for Bobby Ball but Ball also bailed for an Offy. Frank Coon had gone to Italy to learn how to work on the car and had accompanied it on the boat from Italy. At Indy, Coon and Jim Travers were too busy working on Vuky's Kurtis-Offy, also entered by Keck, to get the Ferrari up to speed. They replaced the Webers with a Hilbourn fuel injection system, but it didn't do any good. A DNQ. Owned by Keck until the mid 1990s when it was sold to Barrett-Jackson who performed a cosmetic "restoration" and destroyed all the original finishes.

[Chris R]

SoCalPVguy,

You more or less have it - great research!!!... The caption I found with this photo claims it is Johnnie Parsons in the car (would be early in the month) - but I am not sure it is not Oakes....

Your turn!! :D

[SoCalPVguy]

Chris, thanks, the article I found said Oakes tried to qualify and did not succeed, although it didn't mention if Parsons ever tried to drive it at all. I was born after that I and don't know what either of those guys looked like either... so it could be either...

Let me try to find something "good" for you guys.

[SoCalPVguy]

Driver, Year, Track, Car name

http://home.att.net/%7Eraceshooter/images/histtwo/mallard.jpg

[Alexamateo]

Herk in the Mallard-Offy FE
Indy
1971?

[SoCalPVguy]

Well, that was too easy. Your turn.

[Alexamateo]

Well, that was too easy. Your turn.

I think it's been posted before :D , Anyway, once you've seen that car, you never forget it.

Also, I also think it's Danny Oakes in the Ferrari. You can find photos of Johnnie Parsons on the IMS site for the '52 race, and the driver in your photo is different.

And on to the next one, and yes, It's an Indy/Champ car! :eek: :p : :)

[SoCalPVguy]

The "Sumar Special" streamliner, actually a Kurtis-Kraft chassis ('385-55') with a Meyer-Drake Offy 270 ('175'). Jimmy Daywalt drove the car (#48) without the streamlining at Indy in 1955, finishing 9th.

[Alexamateo]

The "Sumar Special" streamliner, actually a Kurtis-Kraft chassis ('385-55') with a Meyer-Drake Offy 270 ('175'). Jimmy Daywalt drove the car (#48) without the streamlining at Indy in 1955, finishing 9th.

So much for thinking that was going to be a hard one :D That's it! :) :up:

The car without streamlining was one of the uglier cars to ever grace the speedway. So do you know why didn't they run with it? Was it rules? Did it not work out like they hoped?
??

[champcarray]

That's a travesty, alright. What a beautiful car in its original form. I'd like to know why the body was chopped, too.

[SoCalPVguy]

From the website... http://www.angelfire.com/in4/jimmydaywalt/1955.htm

One of the more unusual strange looking cars was the Sumar Special driven by Jimmy Daywalt in the 1955 Indy 500. The car had a full streamlined sports-car type body.

Apparently Daywalt found it disconcerting not being able to see the front wheels, so the streamlined side cowling was removed from both sides of the car. The car then attempted to qualify with all of the parts that would have been hidden under the bodywork totally visible, which gave it a very rough and unfinished look.

"The first time out for a practice run Daywalt had the bubble canopy over his head, but it was off Monday when the local driver reeled off a 131-plus practice try. It was explained that the friction on the plastic bubble was causing dust particles to smear and hamper his vision. Daywalt said he also experienced some trouble with the leather padding flapping around in the cockpit. As for the fenders, the biggest problem is how to check the wear and tear of the tires during the race. They say the rubber will be checked by touch rather than the naked eye and this is one big reason why Daywalt will probably spend a lot of time out on the track during the practice period."

"Reports from 'Gasoline Alley' are that the new Sumar car is a 'flop,' but Daywalt still thinks the car can go, if the mechanics can get the 'font-end condition' that has given him so much trouble on the turns straighten out. The car Daywalt is to pilot has attracted a great deal of attention with its fenders and bubble canopy. The latter part of the car, probably won't be around Saturday, but the fenders will be there. There was some doubt as to whether he'd be able to get the 'feel' of the car with the wheels covered, but if he qualifies come race time they'll open little windows to expose each tire."

"Daywalt was experiencing troubles with his new Sumar special over the weekend and did not attempt a qualification run. He told a Plain Dealer reporter he was having difficulties with the car in the 'turns.' It was pointed out by Daywalt that it was strictly a 'wind' condition and it was holding him back from getting ay speed out of the 'streamlined' auto. The Sumar car may take on a 'new look' by the time fans arrive back at the track for next Saturday's time trials, Daywalt, mechanics, and owner Chapman Root had a two-hour long conversation at the track Sunday with a technical from Allison Aircraft company and the latter advised some changes in the body design. Daywalt said he was 'encouraged' after talking to the aircraft specialist."

"Most observers and Daywalt himself were of the opinion that the body design of the Kurtis-Kraft car was a little too much 'streamlined.' There was plenty of power in the Meyer-Drake engine under the hood, but the wind conditions in the turns offered plenty of resistance to both the racer and the driver. An airplane designer from the Allison Aircraft company was present at the track last Sunday and Daywalt upon consulting the former was advised that some body and mechanical changes could be made to remedy the situation..... The Sumar Special looks like a fugitive from a jalopy race, but everyone agrees that looks aren't so important, but getting in the 'big' race is."

"It was the oddest looking car on the track, but the de-streamlined Sumar Special, with Wabash's Jimmy Daywalt at the wheel, pushed through a 139.416 Saturday mark to qualify for the 500-mile Memorial Day race. 'That was the hardest drive I've ever made in my life,' said the veteran of two other 500-mile races. 'If I had had to drive that hard last year, I would have made 43,' he said. A great favorite among racing fans, Daywalt wasn't happy with the Sumar's performance Saturday. 'It wasn't right today, and we know it,' he said. 'But we're in, and that's the main thing.'
"Due to aerodynamics problem, both the canopy and the fenders have been removed, leaving a car that looks as though it was started and the mechanics forgot to finish it. Regardless of how it looks, it was plenty of get up and go. Daywalt promises that by nest year it will once again be the most beautiful car on the track, and what's more, it will be the fastest. Removal of the fenders has exposed much bulky accessory gear along the sides of the car. where as this gear, such as the oil tank is covered in other cars, it is in the open on the Sumar, causing increased drag. Then too the Sumar weighs about 200 pounds more that the other cars. This drag problem almost knocked the Sumar out of this year's race. With the streamlining, air packed up inside the fenders and had no place to escape, adding several hundred pounds of drag. Along the aerodynamics line, the ultra streamlining of the body caused air rushing over the surface to act just like air over an airplane wing. The result was that at high speeds airflow tended to lift the rear of the racer right off the ground. this made it practically impossible to handle on the curves... This summer the Sumar will be put through a series of wind tunnel tests to determine the causes of the excessive lift and drag. Daywalt says all the bugs will be worked out then, and in 1956 the Sumar will be cream of the crop. 'It'll be the keenest job here,' he said."

[Alexamateo]

Thanks for the story SoCal, looks like the world wasn't ready for the aero revolution in 1955. They were on the right track, but still had a lot of bugs to work out.

BTW, you're up!, looking foward to seeing what's next.

[SoCalPVguy]

http://home.att.net/%7Eraceshooter/images/histtwo/mcnamara.jpg

I'll give you Indy, Driver, car make and year, please...

[Phoenixent]

Thanks for the story SoCal, looks like the world wasn't ready for the aero revolution in 1955. They were on the right track, but still had a lot of bugs to work out.

BTW, you're up!, looking foward to seeing what's next.

The Sumar Special had one last claim in history. It was the car that claimed the life of Marshall Teague at Daytona during a private test in February 1959 as it rolled 500 yards. It was the first fatality at Daytona as the track just opened. :(

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Steve Krisloff
Year- 1971
Car- McNamara-Ford
Track- Indianapolis Motor Speedway

[SoCalPVguy]

That is correct.
I need to find some harder ones, next time I'll copy photo over to my personal FTP and rename it so the car name isn't in the file name.
So Cal

Phoenix... Your turn !

[Phoenixent]

That is correct.
I need to find some harder ones, next time I'll copy photo over to my personal FTP and rename it so the car name isn't in the file name.
So Cal

Phoenix... Your turn !

It was an easy photo. :D Only the 1971 McNamara had that style of aero ramp on it flanks. Also Mario drove the 5 car that year.

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/15/002/1B/DD/A4/28/vjfEe7zhNPGFy5lZz2KlhsEkGU3Gv8Ie01F8.jpg

[Phoenixent]

Hello :rolleyes:

[Chris R]

opps, I saw that the other day and was going to look into it but......

anyhow, awesome picture - perhaps OWRS should consider running on dirt - there is nothing quite like the seeing one of these old "big cars" running on dirt....

I am going to say Rex Mays. 1947. Kurtis/Winfield

I'll guess Milwaukee.....

[Phoenixent]

I am going to say Rex Mays. 1947. Kurtis/Winfield

I'll guess Milwaukee.....

You are correct Chris.

Your Turn.

[Chris R]

Here is the latest - please ignore the obvious hint in the file name - I still have not figured out how to change a file name on an iMac yet....

[mlv]

Dick Simon
Vollstedt-Offy
Indy 1980

[Chris R]

MLV has it - your turn!! "bonus points" if you can name the other tow pretty unique cars in the photo.....

[mlv]

MLV has it - your turn!! "bonus points" if you can name the other tow pretty unique cars in the photo.....

Jerry Karl and his McLaren M16 based Karl-Chevy & Bill Vukovich` Watson -Offy.

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/1752/whoyb4.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whoyb4.jpg)

usual questions

[Chris R]

Right on the "bonus" questions... I would love to see some more technical photos of Karl's McLaren conversion - curious a to what he did and how well it worked....

new photo - Tom Sneva. March-Cosworth 1989 Long Beach....

[mlv]

Right on the "bonus" questions... I would love to see some more technical photos of Karl's McLaren conversion - curious a to what he did and how well it worked....

new photo - Tom Sneva. March-Cosworth 1989 Long Beach....

Almost correct Chris - this car was actually Buick engined March86C. Sneva destroyed his original LolaT8800-Buick at Phoenix practice and was forced to start at LB in this 3 years old chassis.

PM me you e-mail, perhaps i can find something about Karl-Chevy.
Your turn.

[Chris R]

I saw in the results that it was a 86 March - didn't note the engine - I actually spent some time trying to figure out if it was actually a 3 year old car or a mis-print - but I had to actually get back to work!! ;) In those days a car that was more than a season old was pretty "low budget" - hard to believe how much times have changed.....

So I wonder if racing is really that much more expensive now (relatively speaking) and if so why or if sponsorship as that much more valuable then.... I assume it is like any business where indirect costs (insurance, taxes, regulatory compliance etc.) are just blowing profitability out of the water....

anyhow - here is the latest.....

[SoCalPVguy]

Car: Watson
Eng. Offy
Year: 1961
Site: Indy 500
Driver: The Late Eddie Sachs
Sponsor: Dean VanLines
Qualified on pole, finshed second place.

[SoCalPVguy]

Fantastic video of the 1972 Indy 500
Link (center of page)

http://www.racingmodels.co.uk/center--mclaren-m16b-gordon-johncock-indy-500-1972-118-4373-p.asp

Note th e 'dihedral' wings on the Parnelli, a young Dan Gurney and the late Mark Donahue's victory in the McLaren.

[Alexamateo]

Fantastic video of the 1972 Indy 500
Link (center of page)

http://www.racingmodels.co.uk/center--mclaren-m16b-gordon-johncock-indy-500-1972-118-4373-p.asp

Note th e 'dihedral' wings on the Parnelli, a young Dan Gurney and the late Mark Donahue's victory in the McLaren.

Thanks for the video SoCal! A couple of questions though:

What is Bobby Unser referring to when he has the "Cool It!" pit board sign?

I know Jerry Grant was penalized for stopping in Unser's pit box and fueling from his rig, Would he have won if not for that penalty?, or Would Donohue have caught him anyway?

I also just want to mention that Gary Bettenhausen dominated the race leading 138 laps in the #7 McLaren only to drop out with 16 laps to go a la the future Michael Andretti. :(

[SoCalPVguy]

here's a link to the official 1972 field, photo of each car. Note that the dihedral wings never worked well, that video portion must have been from practice. In the race the dihedral wings were gone. I have always though that the 1972 Eagle was one on the most beautiful cars made, although the McLaren was also great, narrower but the side radiators stuck out more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Indianapolis_500http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/ph...ay=40&offset=0 (http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/photos/gallery.php?series_id=1&event_id=133&eventDate=1972-01-01&display=40&offset=0)

1972: Gary Bettenhausen leads 138 laps until his engine blows on lap 176. Jerry Grant gets the lead but pits for new tires on lap 188 in team mate Bobby Unser’s pit. Bettenhausen’s Penske team mate Mark Donohue wins after leading 13 laps. After a post-race re-examination, scoring is stopped on Grant because of the pit lane violation. Bolt-on wings were allowed for the first time, and during qualifying Bobby Unser runs over 196 mph, breaking the one-year-old track record by over 17 mph. During the race, Wally Dallenbach Sr.'s car catches fire on each of his three refueling stops.

Grant finshed second on the track so the penalty did not cost the win. I assume that Cool it refers to the fact that Unser lead all 30 laps easily until an ignition rotor broke, he was by far the fastest car and would have won easily if it had lasted. This was the year the new sleek wedge shaped wide eagle was introduced and it was light years ahead of the older competition. You can see the difference in the line up photos. Can you imagine a car today with ignition rotors ??? Ancient history.

[Alexamateo]

Thanks, I never realized that Grant was not penalized until after the race was over, so Donohue wins regardless.

[Chris R]

Car: Watson
Eng. Offy
Year: 1961
Site: Indy 500
Driver: The Late Eddie Sachs
Sponsor: Dean VanLines
Qualified on pole, finshed second place.

you got it! your turn

[SoCalPVguy]

I have tried to make this more difficult. Driver name, year, track location, car maker (and model no. ?), pls....

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/old.race.car.photo1.jpg

[Chris R]

My guess is:
Walt Brown
Milwaukee
1948
Kurtis-Offy (don't know the number - perhaps a 2000)

[SoCalPVguy]

Hi Chris...
Well, I'll give you the "Offy" part.
But all of the other stuff is off, sorry, but somewhat close.
SC

[Chris R]

oh well, you have to start someplace!! back to the books :)

[Alexamateo]

Trying to start somewhere:

Is the track Lakewood?

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Bill Holland
Year- 1949
Car- Kurtis Kraft-Offy
Track- Langhorne

Tough Track to drive and became harder every year until it closed.

[SoCalPVguy]

Phoenix, that is almost all correct regarding driver, track and year. However, the source of the photo shows a different car maker/model.

It is listed as a "Milt Marion KK2000" but I could take that to mean the entrant and/or sponsor was Milt Marion and a KK2000 denotes "Kurtis Kraft" model 2000 as mentioned earlier above. Possible Mr. Marion built a slightly modified Kurtis Kraft.

In the photo note the extereme lack of outside guardrails and fencing protection for the spectator stands.

Bill Holland was a very successful driver of his time. Between 1947 and 1950 he finished the Indy 500 in 2nd, 1st, 2nd, and 2nd !

Anyway, close enough for government work, it is now your turn !!!

[Phoenixent]

Phoenix, that is almost all correct regarding driver, track and year. However, the source of the photo shows a different car maker/model.

It is listed as a "Milt Marion KK2000" but I could take that to mean the entrant and/or sponsor was Milt Marion and a KK2000 denotes "Kurtis Kraft" model 2000 as mentioned earlier above. Possible Mr. Marion built a slightly modified Kurtis Kraft.

In the photo note the extereme lack of outside guardrails and fencing protection for the spectator stands.

Bill Holland was a very successful driver of his time. Between 1947 and 1950 he finished the Indy 500 in 2nd, 1st, 2nd, and 2nd !

Nice Photo. :up:

Chassis #326-49. This KK2000, built in 1949, went to Milt Marion, of Mineola, New York . Milt Marion owned the car from 1949 to 1955.

Chassis and body are Kurtis. The front end is a cross spring set by Milt Marion. International front spindles. Hubs made by Conde, rear axle is quick change, with Halibrand rear end. Ford shocks front and rear. Norden steering, brakes are Catton disc, with four Dayton Wire Wheels and hubs. Ford three speed transmission. Kurtis Torsion bar rear suspension.

Curently for sale on Ebay Motors for 135,000.00

Bill Holland was suspended from AAA events for racing in non-AAA events for 2 years 1951 and 1952.

New Photo Coming Up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/14/00A/7F/97/8C/19/VDWM7uiWU0UIqAYbg2v37bSYeP53t5FF0258.jpg

[Alexamateo]

Bumping back to top,

Alex Zanardi
Reynard Honda
1998
no idea on track

[Chris R]

Juan Montoya
2000 Lola 2K-toyota
its that Lola with the funky extended wheelbase - no idea on the track - maybe Laguna.....

[Phoenixent]

Juan Montoya
2000 Lola 2K-toyota
its that Lola with the funky extended wheelbase - no idea on the track - maybe Laguna.....

You are correct Chris. :up:

The spacer was used to move the wings forward on Montoya's car while Vasser had the wheel base extended on his. The track was Cleveland and Ganassi had copied Newman Haas trying to get the Lola hooked up.

Your Turn.

[Chris R]

that was one funky modification.... :)

however it gives some precedent for the proposed merger - perhaps if we stick a Dallara nose on a DP-01 or vice versa - anyone good with photoshop???

anyway, here is the next one - the usual please....

[SoCalPVguy]

Chris, how about...
Len Sutton
1962
Leader Card 500 Roadster, Watson Offy
Guess at Indy 500, although the smaller stands in the photo indicate possibly Milwaukee.
If it was Indy, Len Sutton, finsihes second to Leader Card 500 Roadster team-mate Roger Ward by 11-seconds.

After retiring from driving, Sutton went into broadcasting and was a member of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Radio Network for many years. Sutton died at his home in Portland at age 81 after a long battle with cancer.

[Chris R]

socal, you've got it!! thanks for the additional info!

your turn!

[SoCalPVguy]

Given the present situation of the "merger" and all, give me a few minutes to find something really special for this group !!!

[Phoenixent]

Hello SoCAl. :rolleyes:

[SoCalPVguy]

Here is a 'two-fer' for you all.

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/old.race.car.2.jpg

Drivers name, Year, Manufacturer, engine displacement and configuration/features, and other features that made this care unique.

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/old.race.car.3.jpg

Year, car name, manufacturer, engine size and configuration, and another "first" in race cars.

I think these will be pretty easy for the afficianados out there.

[Brad Erman]

Ok, # 3 is Peter DePaolo, 1927, Miller/Offenhauser, front wheel drive, next to my neighbor's brick house, no idea about displacement.

Maybe innertubes?

[Brad Erman]

OK, the bottom image, 1917 Golden Submarine, Miller, Barny Oldfield, Engine Specification:
4 Cylinder aluminum alloy, 289 cid, 3-5/8 bore x 7" stroke, 136 H.P. @ 2950 R.P.M., Single overhead cam, desmodromic valves, dual intake ports for each cylinder, dual sparkplugs and magnetos.
Body and Chassis:
Wind tunnel tested aluminum body with rollover protection. 104" wheelbase. 1600 lbs.

Race Record:
Competed in 54 races; 20 wins, 2 seconds 2 thirds. Competed in the 1919 Indy race but did not finish.

First enclosed cockpit (NASCAB)?

[SoCalPVguy]

Brad, these are correct.

DePaolo's 1927 car is a Harry Miller 91-c.i. (1.5-liters) with dual overhead cam, straight-8 cylinders using 32-valves, 4-valves per cylinder, and was supercharged, a very advanced engine for its time. It had front wheel drive, a unique concept at the time. It also had "in-board" brakes next to the FWD housing, lessening the aerodynamic profile of the brakes out at the wheels.

The Golden sub is all you said with the addition that is was the first car ever to use hydraulic front brakes.

It is now your turn !!!

[rpralon]

http://bp1.blogger.com/_MPhlEnKCONM/RjpfSc9YMPI/AAAAAAAAATE/6rGIUcTmrDw/s400/ligier.jpg

[Brad Erman]

OK, so how do you paste the car in the reply? Here is the link, driver, year(s)...

[Brad Erman]

http://bp1.blogger.com/_MPhlEnKCONM/RjpfSc9YMPI/AAAAAAAAATE/6rGIUcTmrDw/s400/ligier.jpg


Cogan 1984 Ligier?

[champcarray]

Brad -- It's a Miller-Gulf, looks like Indy to me. I don't know the year or driver.

[Phoenixent]

Brad

Driver- Al Miller
Year- 1941
Car- Miller 4WD - Miller Supercharged
Track- Indianapolis


rpralon

Driver- Kevin Cogan
Year- 1984
Car- Liger CO2-Cosworth
Track- Long Beach

[Brad Erman]

Brad

Driver- Al Miller
Year- 1941
Car- Miller 4WD - Miller Supercharged
Track- Indianapolis


rpralon

Driver- Kevin Cogan
Year- 1984
Car- Liger CO2-Cosworth
Track- Long Beach


Yep! Your turn(s)!

[Phoenixent]

Thanks Brad.

I have photos of the Miller after it was restored. It was a very cool car and ahead of it's time to bad it took another 20 years for rear engine to catch on at the speedway.

Here is the next photo.

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/08/002/5F/7D/EA/5E/t+n0abb8XZhYqr+anSTaQi6QiFZce5b8018D.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

Try This

1965 Brabham BT12, -Offy
Jim McElreath
Finished 20th Indy 500

[Phoenixent]

Try This

1965 Brabham BT12, -Offy
Jim McElreath
Finished 20th Indy 500


Right Track. :up:

Keep Digging. :)

[SoCalPVguy]

It' s the same car, but a year earlier:

(Sir) Jack Brabham
1964
Brabham BT12-offy
Indy 500

Brabham cars competed at the Indianapolis 500 from the mid 1960s to the early 1970s. After an abortive project in 1962,[49] MRD was commissioned in 1964 to build an Indycar chassis powered by an American Offenhauser engine. The resultant BT12 chassis was raced by Jack Brabham as the Zink-Urschel Trackburner at the 1964 event and retired with a fuel tank problem. The car was entered again in 1966, taking a third place for Jim McElreath.

[Chris R]

1962 Zink Trackburner turbine.....

Indy
Dan Gurney

[Phoenixent]

1962 Zink Trackburner turbine.....

Indy
Dan Gurney


Ding,Ding,Ding,Ding,Ding,Ding. We have a winner. :bounce:

Gurney switched to Mickey Thompsons team for the race. If you look closely you can see the intake for the turbine behind the roll bar.

Good work Chris. :up:

Your Turn

[SoCalPVguy]

Thanks Brad.

I have photos of the Miller after it was restored. It was a very cool car and ahead of it's time to bad it took another 20 years for rear engine to catch on at the speedway.

Here is the next photo.

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/08/002/5F/7D/EA/5E/t+n0abb8XZhYqr+anSTaQi6QiFZce5b8018D.jpg

Here is some more info on this beastie...

This is excerpted from Dan Gurney's AllAmericanRacers website, and it addresses his first Indy 500 and inviting Colin Chapman...who he hooked up with Ford and who ultimaely revloutionized open-wheeled racing the following year with the Lotus:

"But first, The Rookie Test: It was good that Chapman was such a self-sufficient guest, because Gurney was not able to play full-time host at the Indy 500 party. He wound up driving one of three mid-engined cars designed by Englishman John Crostwaite for Mickey Thompson, who powered them with aluminum Buick V8s as the Harvey Aluminum Specials. Thompson, like Gurney, had seen the future in the Cooper Brabham drove in ‘61, and he was there with a team the year after Brabham’s pioneering run in the Cooper.

Before he could drive, Gurney, like any first-time Indy driver, had to take and pass his rookie test. The car he drove for that test was, ironically, an Offy, John Zink’s "Trackburner Special". It was his first drive in an Offy and his first drive on an oval track.

"I had never driven a lap on an oval track before," Gurney says, "or on those old, very hard, narrow-tread Firestone tires, that were essentially built for rigid-axle cars."

"The rookie test was not a slam-dunk affair," Gurney says. "There was no guarantee you were going to be able to get the car up to the speed you needed to go to qualify for the Speedway."

Gurney managed. He says the difference in feel between the Offy and the mid-engined monocoque was not as vast as one might think.

"There wasn’t that much difference in the steering effort of the front-engined Offy and the rear-engined Lotus I drove the following year," Gurney says. The thing that impressed him was the track itself."

According to his, the Zinc Trackburner was an Offy roadster...and Gurney drove it only to complete his rookie tests....


This information finally prompted another party to contact Donald Davidson, the Historian at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, who is an authority on not only the IMS but many aspects of the history of Open Wheeled racing.... Here is "The Word" from Donald Himself:

1962 -- John Zink (with a "K") did in fact enter both a turbine and a Front Engined Roadster with the offy that year...Gurney took his Rookie Test in the Offy car, and practiced in it as well, because the turbine was not ready yet...in addition to Gurney, Duane Carter Sr. and Bill Cheesbourgh, among others, also did practice in the Zink Turbine car once it was ready to run, but it was still very experimental...none could get it up to speeds needed, so the car was not entered into qualifying....that was when Gurney had to get his ride with Mickey Thompson that I described above... BTW...this Turbine also was a Boeing engine...

[Chris R]

http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l91/cbruske/?action=view&current=guessthis.jpg

here is a new one... year, track and at least the front two cars.....

great info on the Zink turbine - here's hoping for a new era of innovation!!

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #3 Don Branson inside pole and Car #98 Parnelli Jones outside pole
Year- 1961
Car- Car #3 Epperly-Offy and Car #98 Watson-Offy
Track- Milwaukee - August Race

[Chris R]

Phoenix has it! (I feel sort of like Tom Carnegie saying "and its a new lap record" as often as I have typed that!!)...

good work!

your turn

[Phoenixent]

Phoenix has it! (I feel sort of like Tom Carnegie saying "and its a new lap record" as often as I have typed that!!)...

good work!

your turn

Thanks Chris. :)

That Epperly sure looks different next to the Watson. They had 26 cars on the track for that start. Sure would be nice to see 26 cars at Milwaukee again.

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, & Year

http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/16/006/6F/3E/A9/3D/gfshouA1Cm4cW3O2F1a7ZxmosXDEaCpJ0190.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

Driver, Car, & Year

http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/16/006/6F/3E/A9/3D/gfshouA1Cm4cW3O2F1a7ZxmosXDEaCpJ0190.jpg

I am not totally sure...
Frank Lockhart, #15 Boyle valve special, 1926 Indy 500 Champion, Miller 91 rear wheel drive.
For this photo I have no idea of the track, one of the smaller ones, Milwaukee or Langhorne...

here is a photo of what I this think car is after a restoration...
http://www.milleroffy.com/miller_boylevalve.jpg

[Phoenixent]

I am not totally sure...
Frank Lockhart, #15 Boyle valve special, 1926 Indy 500 Champion, Miller 91 rear wheel drive.
For this photo I have no idea of the track, one of the smaller ones, Milwaukee or Langhorne...

here is a photo of what I this think car is after a restoration...
http://www.milleroffy.com/miller_boylevalve.jpg

Nice photo SoCal. :up:

The car is correct. But the year and driver are wrong. I have the info on the track but as you said can't tell from the photo.

If that car could talk the stories it could tell. Beautiful machine more appealing to the eye then today's cars.

Keep up the good work. :up:

[Chris R]

How about Cliff Woodbury - 1927 Miller 91 rwd....

I am going to guess Culver City - just because it looks like the car might not have gotten its finall paint job/look for the season yet.....

beautiful pictures from both you guys......

[Phoenixent]

How about Cliff Woodbury - 1927 Miller 91 rwd....

I am going to guess Culver City - just because it looks like the car might not have gotten its finall paint job/look for the season yet.....

beautiful pictures from both you guys......

You are Correct Chris. :up:

I have another photo of Woodbury on the track but you raelly could not ID him very well but you could tell it was Culver City.

The photo SoCal posted of the restored Miller is great. The car had a real neat look to them.

Your Turn.

[Chris R]

Here's the latest. Probably pretty easy - but I thought the picture was great - sort of like wtf was THAT????.... :p

[Chris R]

just bumping this to the top of the merged message board. I guess we can now include IRL era too???

[Alexamateo]

just bumping this to the top of the merged message board. I guess we can now include IRL era too???

The only bad thing about years recently is that it's too much of the same with basically spec cars and all.

Anyway,

Jim Clark
Lotus Ford
1964 Indy

[Chris R]

Alex has it - I wonder if he is cursing the Dunlop tires under his breath in that photo???

Most interesting thing of the IR era might be guessing the driver of the earlier cars.....
the newly merged series needs to get cracking on a new technical formula if this thread is to be passed on to our children ;)

[Alexamateo]

Most interesting thing of the IR era might be guessing the driver of the earlier cars.....


one photo of Racin' Gardner coming right up! :p : Just kidding!

[Alexamateo]

Most interesting thing of the IR era might be guessing the driver of the earlier cars.....


one photo of Racin' Gardner coming right up! :p : Just kidding!

The usual please.

[Chris R]

Let's try:
Pete Halsmer
Michigan 1984
Eagle-Pontiac

pretty car.....

[Alexamateo]

Let's try:
Pete Halsmer
Michigan 1984
Eagle-Pontiac

pretty car.....

Right car, wrong driver and track!

Yep, it is a pretty car, Dan Gurney's car designs always were.

[djarumdudley]

Kevin Cogan
Eagle-Pontiac
1984 Indy?

[Alexamateo]

Kevin Cogan
Eagle-Pontiac
1984 Indy?

You got it!

You're up next! :) :up:

[Phoenixent]

Car entering the pits is Herm Johnson's March 84C-Cosworth

[djarumdudley]

give me the usual for both cars. the lead car is a bit blurry but idoubt that will be an issue for you guys.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car #19 Mel Kenyon and Car #16 Bentley Warren
Year- 1973
Car- Car #19 Eagle 72 -Offy and Car #16 Eagle 72 -Offy
Track- Ontario Motor Speedway

[djarumdudley]

your court, Phoenix. all info correct though my source gives Kenyon's poweplant as a Foyt.

[Phoenixent]

your court, Phoenix. all info correct though my source gives Kenyon's poweplant as a Foyt.

That does look like a Foyt in the photo. I would have to dig out my program for 1973 Cal 500. That was the third Indy car race my father took me to. I sure miss that track. :( Fontana could not hold a candle to Ontario.

New Photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/23/005/6F/FE/F3/13/VdTrqE9sx-fLAfElLTRewocjGghWIMm50258.jpg

[BobGarage]

Adam Carroll
Forsythe Lola Cosworth
MSR Houston
December 2006

??

[Phoenixent]

Adam Carroll
Forsythe Lola Cosworth
MSR Houston
December 2006

??

Right Car, Track and Year.

Keep Digging on the Driver. :D

[BobGarage]

Jay Howard!

[Phoenixent]

Jay Howard!

Correct. :bounce:

Your Turn.

[BobGarage]

the usual please

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5513/ntcsu0.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

How about Art Malone, Indy 500, 1963, Kurtis Novi, "STP"

[BobGarage]

correct.

didn't think that one would last long

your turn.

[iks]

Hey guys, I'm not playing in the thread at this moment but I thought that someone here would be able to identify the logo on the front of the rear wing on Arie Luyendyk's car...It would be a great help! I thought it was WAVEPHORE but it does not look like that to me.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6230/72501636bf4.jpg

[Phoenixent]

Hey guys, I'm not playing in the thread at this moment but I thought that someone here would be able to identify the logo on the front of the rear wing on Arie Luyendyk's car...It would be a great help! I thought it was WAVEPHORE but it does not look like that to me.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6230/72501636bf4.jpg

I believe it is Wavephore. It's on the rear wing, front wings and the Rear wing endplates. Not sure what this company did but it was internet related.

[iks]

Yeah, it SHOULD be Wavephore there because I have another picture of the car with road course wings and it clearly has Wavephore there. But it just doesn't look like Wavephore to me in this picture. I don't see any 'w' or 'v'. I have a very very poor picture of his car (#22 Wavephore, design is the same as the Herdez car, just no Herdez logos) from Phoenix in 1995 and the rear wing logo looks very similar. The last few letters look like 'shift' to me. Thanks anyways.