Petter Solberg in Ford

[Sulland]

Petters second period with Ford deserve its own thread !

His team is dead and barried, so pls continue the Petter discussions here!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Petter is good. He suites Ford! :D

[Red bull]

he will do better if he is free to fight for a win every rally,no team orders!

[tfp]

he will do better if he is free to fight for a win every rally,no team orders!

If Latvala has an event where he scores no points again, hes out of running for the championship. You never know, Solberg may just be in the running at the end of the year!

[Langdale Forest]

Solberg finished 3rd in Monte-Carlo, a rally he has never liked, he can be expected to be better in Sweden, a rally that he has won in the past.

But would team orders be used to make Latvala win?

[N.O.T]

LOL...

[tfp]

Solberg finished 3rd in Monte-Carlo, a rally he has never liked, he can be expected to be better in Sweden, a rally that he has won in the past.

But would team orders be used to make Latvala win?

Good question, I bet that would add a few grey hairs to MW's head if that turns out to be the case :D

[MikeD]

I think Petter will be the most consistent of the two factory Ford drivers and I won't be surprised if it's Solberg who ends up fighting for the title with Loeb.

Latvala is already 28 points behind and that's not a good start when you are fighting Mr. consistent. I bet Ford will have to revise their no. 1 and no. 2 status after a couple of rallies.

[Langdale Forest]

LOL...

If you want to be pessamistic, go and post in the old 'Petter Solberg WRT' thread.

[Zico]

I wasn't quite sure what to expect but Petter performed far better than I ever dreamed he would on his WRC comeback, good result on a rally he is not renowned for performing well on. Expectations must be very high now for Sweden..

Go Petter!!

[DonJippo]

he will do better if he is free to fight for a win every rally,no team orders!

So you think he was not free to fight for a win in Monte?

[RS]

So looking at the relevant performance of Petter and Mikko on Monte, it seems the Ford and Petter are maybe not so bad as some thought. The season is long, but surprisingly good start :up:

Especially as somebody mentioned that Monte is not his best event. He was far more convincing this year than last.

[Sulland]

Best ever Monte result for Petter. Not bad in a for him new car. And the Fiesta is supposedly better on loose surface than on asphalt, so Sweden can be exiting for Ford!

[Maxi]

Hasn't Petter been banned from sweeden?

[Alpha]

Third place instead of second place is Malcolms fault. He told Petter to NOT run studs and softs diagonally even though it was Petters idea and he convinced Latvala to run tires that way. Latvala run a whole minute faster than Petter. In the end he only needed 28 secs to get 2. place so a lot could be different if he had the best tire option. Bad choice Malcolm!

Petter was caught speeding (doing 106kph in a 50-zone) and got a suspended ban for Sweden. What it means? Nothing at all if Petter isn't caught speeding again this season. If he is however he will loose whatever points he might get in Sweden. Also, Petter lost his license in Sweden last year but that ban was just for two months. So it's no problem with Sweden at all.

Malcolm won't change anything in the team just on the basis of Monte Carlo, but let's see how it goes in Sweden. If Latvala keeps crashing and Petter keeps running better than expected, changes will be made. No doubt.

[Gard]

Hasn't Petter been banned from sweeden?

He practically lives in Sweden. So I don't think so

[N.O.T]

Hasn't Petter been banned from sweeden?

it was just for 2 months.

[Red bull]

Petter Solberg given suspended ban for speeding | WRC News | Jan 2012 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/world%20rally/news/176166/1/petter_solberg_given_suspended_ban_for_speeding.ht ml)

[Viking]

3rd is Petters best start of a season ever methinks, correct me if i'm wrong.

Seems like MW's tone is a little differrent also :)

Ford team chief Malcolm Wilson praises Petter Solberg's Monte Carlo Rally performance - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97150)

[bretddog]

I find it really strange why Petter is not entered for rally Finnskogen. Mikko is. If Ford really want a shot at the manu-title, why on earth they don't send him there? Sweden will be hard for Petter with a new car on snow. Setups much more difficult than Monte.

[N.O.T]

I find it really strange why Petter is not entered for rally Finnskogen. Mikko is. If Ford really want a shot at the manu-title, why on earth they don't send him there? Sweden will be hard for Petter with a new car on snow. Setups much more difficult than Monte.

entering rallies requires money... How Slowson is going to get sponsored if they keep spending money to give better chances to the official boys ???

use your head.

[Mirek]

Don't think Sweden is MUCH more difficult for setup than Monte. Think it is opposite...

In RMC You have plenty of very different tyres to use - each work ideally with different settings, in Sweden You use just one type of tyres.

In RMC You have extremely variable conditions - flat wide asphalt, narrow bumpy asphalt, clean road in south, gravel in corners in the north, sometimes ice, sometimes snow, sometimes wet, sometimes dry, sometimes -10 degrees, sometimes +15 degrees, very fast stages in north with long straights, twisty technical roads in the south, different types of asphalt - again every surface has its ideal settings and it's often not only about different legs but also about completely different consecutive stages

[bretddog]

entering rallies requires money... How Slowson is going to get sponsored if they keep spending money to give better chances to the official boys ???

use your head.
:) ..Certainly it's by no means surprising. Malcolm will get what he deserves.. more of nothing. But one could hope Ford/Quinn had a stronger say this season. Though unfortunately I think he's also lacking the fighting-gene.

[bretddog]

Don't think Sweden is MUCH more difficult for setup than Monte. Think it is opposite...

There has been many tarmac rallies last season, and Latvala had clearly found great tarmac-setups. Compared to just one snow rally, where if I remember correctly, Latvala was struggling with setups. And with surface which may potentially be quite different this year. We will see, but I think it's not going to be so easy.

[Mirek]

If You think You can use setup from Germany in RMC You are wrong. Of course You can but You are slow than. Even such a small thing like different asphalt tyres from last year forced most teams to change settings for them (not speaking about all other tyres for RMC). We spoke to Prokop who told us they didn't get a single new tyre before RMC so they had to make setup for them in shakedown because what they tested before with last years tyres simply didn't work. And that's still just a one variable from dozens in RMC.

[bretddog]

I didn't say you can use identical setups. But with multiple tarmac rallies you have a decent amount of highly relevant sensitivity data that makes it easier. And more importantly Latvala has done a really good job to find optimal setups for tarmac, something Mikko never managed. And it's already a fact that neither Latvala nor Solberg mentioned any troubles with their setup in Monte.

If you think this will repeat in Sweden, I really hope you are right. But I doubt it. And in any case Petter should go to Finnskogen to get prepared, and more km in the car. I think it's a real blunder not to, which will clearly show on the first day. Mikko won Sweden last year, yet they send him there for practice. It's the difference of someone who decide to win, and someone who just hope.

[sollitt]

entering rallies requires money... How Slowson is going to get sponsored if they keep spending money to give better chances to the official boys ???

use your head.NOT, there are some very childish and commercially naive people on this forum who refuse to understand the very simple fact that the budget to run Matthew will be quite separate and totally unrelated to the budget which funds the 'A' team.
As a big fan of your work I have never considered you to be amongst them.

[BDunnell]

NOT, there are some very childish and commercially naive people on this forum who refuse to understand the very simple fact that the budget to run Matthew will be quite separate and totally unrelated to the budget which funds the 'A' team.

Of course, but answer me this. The money would still exist were it not going towards Matthew, would it not? The fact of it being drawn from a different pot makes no difference to the actual existence of the funding, surely?

[N.O.T]

NOT, there are some very childish and commercially naive people on this forum who refuse to understand the very simple fact that the budget to run Matthew will be quite separate and totally unrelated to the budget which funds the 'A' team.
As a big fan of your work I have never considered you to be amongst them.

Who pays for Slowsons entry, Slowsons car, Slowson service costs ?? Where the money comes from ??

[tfp]

Who pays for Slowsons entry, Slowsons car, Slowson service costs ?? Where the money comes from ??

Go fast energy drinks!

One thing I cant understand (and I dont like to say this) How come Wilson gets a load of stick and Henning doesn't? Who finished in front of who in Monte?

[Alpha]

Henning actually posts good results when his car doesn't fall to pieces. And it falls to pieces, a lot! Wilslow is just slow, always, no matter what car or support he gets.

[Sulland]

Normally Henning is quicker than Wilson Jr. In Monte C Henning started with 2 wd and two broken driveshafts, and also had other tech issues, that does something to the motivation.......

[tfp]

Normally Henning is quicker than Wilson Jr. In Monte C Henning started with 2 wd and two broken driveshafts, and also had other tech issues, that does something to the motivation.......

Fair point, but I still dont think Wilson doesnt deserve the stick he gets.

[Allyc85]

And back to Petter Solberg eh lads? ;)

[ste898]

Finally Malcolm Wislon praises Petter for his fantastic performance in Monte 2012.....about time

If Malcolm wasnt such a child he would have had petter in the team from when Marcus retired instead of waisting time with hirvoslow

GO PETTER GO!!!!!!!!!

[Barreis]

Bigger waste is Latvala.

[Plan9]

I am just loving seeing Petter back as I remember him pre-2009. His fight with Dani was a great way to start the year off and I hope it continues. I am sure Petter will be allowed to win at least 1 rally regardless of who is the actually number 1 at the FWRT.

On Henning v Matt; it seems like Henning's cars are always going wrong and Matt's doesn't have as many.

It would be interesting to know whether the GO Fast team has the same spec cars as M-Sport Ford.

[Rallyper]

A budget solution is to use used spareparts from FWRT. Maybe Henning does that to afford driving?

[OldF]

And back to Petter Solberg eh lads? ;)

Don’t worry, the guys below take care of it. I like Petter’s exiting attitude but reading post below, I don’t think I will read this thread anymore. I put them both on my ignore list.


Finally Malcolm Wislon praises Petter for his fantastic performance in Monte 2012.....about time

If Malcolm wasnt such a child he would have had petter in the team from when Marcus retired instead of waisting time with hirvoslow

GO PETTER GO!!!!!!!!!


Bigger waste is Latvala.

[N.O.T]

I don’t think I will read this thread anymore. I put them both on my ignore list.

you want instructions how to do it ? i am an expert at that ...

[OldF]

you want instructions how to do it ? i am an expert at that ...

I already did it.

Sometimes you’re also posting crap here but you have at least posts that are funny and intelligent so don’t put you on my ignore list. ;)

[Langdale Forest]

Go fast energy drinks!


That is named for irony!




Bigger waste is Latvala.

So you are saying he is more of a waste than Matthew Wilson?

[Barreis]

Never that. We are talking about works drivers and how much cars did they destroy.

[Langdale Forest]

Latvala may destroy many cars but the money that is used to pay the bills for Wilslow to rally could be used to rebuild the cars that Latvala crashes.
I would say that Petter Solberg is the best Ford driver this year.

[Barreis]

Must agree.

[Alpha]

+911

[Fide]

Think Petter has started this rally a bit nervous and a bit cautious bearing in mind everybody was watching his behavior. Also, with no much kilometers in a new car. Also to demonstrate papa Wilson he still has "the touch". Also to silently start demonstrating he is better than Matti. Also repressing his mind to go flat out and go out. In brief, a lot of things that once Petter is able to finaly win a rally will quickly disappear and we will have an opportunity to see Petter more relaxed in terms of pressure and letting them to demonstrate us "the magic is still there". Hope this happen soon.................

[Mintexmemory]

Honestly, there are so many members on this site who put the 'Jerk' into 'Knee jerk reaction' - 1st bad mistake since Sardinia last year and the old 'Jari-Matti destroyer of cars and waster of talent' cliches come out. It's one event, let's see who out paces who at the end of the season. My view is that both Ford drivers will finnish (sic.) ahead of Hirvonen but whether that will be enough to be ahead of Loeb is another matty - I mean matter. What Ford could actually do with is the Polo taking tarmac points from Loeb later in the year. The Fat lady hasn't even got to the Opera House yet!!

[A.F.F.]

What I remember how Petter was at his best, he was joyfull, over self-confident, prefered to catch someone rather than running away. Then he won duels between Marcus and Sebastien. And he was fast.

Petter at the finishline of Monte reminded me a bit of Petter above. I'm predicting very good results from him this season :up:

[maciej]

New generation Warning light for Rally Car and Automotive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljgdinbl1Q8

new radio triangle system for protect rally team
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaclUDoMmaM

[Sladden]

What I remember how Petter was at his best, he was joyfull, over self-confident, prefered to catch someone rather than running away. Then he won duels between Marcus and Sebastien. And he was fast.

Petter at the finishline of Monte reminded me a bit of Petter above. I'm predicting very good results from him this season :up:

Well said. This holds some hope for an interesting season..more interesting than it has been in a long time.

[N.O.T]

Then he won duels between Marcus and Sebastien.

when was that ??

Loeb can beat Solberg with hands in pockets for some years now...

Solberg will win an event this year only if Loeb/Latvala/Hirvonen retire...

[tfp]

when was that ??

Loeb can beat Solberg with hands in pockets for some years now...

Solberg will win an event this year only if Loeb/Latvala/Hirvonen retire...

He still has the speed IMO.
Ok, he had a bad season last year, but then again, I did find his car for sale that the PSA sold him last season.

Evans Halshaw Citroen Reading : CITROEN DS3 1.6 HDi 16V DStyle 3dr (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3426759.htm)

:D

[Fide]

when was that ??

Loeb can beat Solberg with hands in pockets for some years now...

Solberg will win an event this year only if Loeb/Latvala/Hirvonen retire...

Ha ha.... Your sarcasm is always present, If Solberg wins this year with Loeb, Latvala and Hirvonen racing... you should save your tongue in pockets......

[N.O.T]

Ha ha.... Your sarcasm is always present, If Solberg wins this year with Loeb, Latvala and Hirvonen racing... you should save your tongue in pockets......

Its the 7th year in a row i hear that....

[Fide]

Its the 7th year in a row i hear that....
First time with a competitive factory car; not a crap like the last Subaru he drove...................

[N.O.T]

First time with a competitive factory car; not a crap like the last Subaru he drove...................

Ok then... lets wait and see....

once more...

[Fide]

Ok then... lets wait and see....

once more...

Sounds fair....

[A.F.F.]

when was that ??

Loeb can beat Solberg with hands in pockets for some years now...

Solberg will win an event this year only if Loeb/Latvala/Hirvonen retire...


2003 Rally Australia is an example. Then he fought with Loeb and it was Loeb who had to back off. 2005 he forced Marcus to make a mistake and won Rally Sweden. Yes I know it was a long time ago but he had it back then, I hope he still has it. But the point is that only last weekend reminded me of an old Petter and if he continues to perform well, he might be the black horse of the season.

[N.O.T]

I do not think that at his age and after almost a decade Solberg can come back to winning ways due to speed.... usually when you lose your touch with the top you do not come back.

[Wim_Impreza]

when was that ??

Loeb can beat Solberg with hands in pockets for some years now...

Solberg will win an event this year only if Loeb/Latvala/Hirvonen retire...

Solberg was already faster than Hirvonen in the Rallye Monte-Carlo. We all know that it is normally the most difficult event for Petter.

[N.O.T]

Solberg was already faster than Hirvonen in the Rallye Monte-Carlo. We all know that it is normally the most difficult event for Petter.

they had different goals in that rally the moment Latvala Retired.

[A.F.F.]

I do not think that at his age and after almost a decade Solberg can come back to winning ways due to speed.... usually when you lose your touch with the top you do not come back.

The days has been equally long to Loeb than Petter. But, it remains to be seen.

[N.O.T]

The days has been equally long to Loeb than Petter. But, it remains to be seen.

the difference is Loeb never lost touch with the top....i think its important.

[pettersolberg29]

they had different goals in that rally the moment Latvala Retired.

Yeh - if anything Petter had to be more cautious as he was the lone points scorer for Ford. Mikko could afford to push and yet Petter was still faster.

[Rallyper]

A rallydriver is at his best around the 40´s I´d say. And Petter has a lot to do in WRC before he retires, that´s for sure.

[userwave]

A rallydriver is at his best around the 40´s I´d say. And Petter has a lot to do in WRC before he retires, that´s for sure.

man , what's Loeb gonna be like when he hits his 40's ??

:)

[Rallyper]

man , what's Loeb gonna be like when he hits his 40's ??

:)

Probably even better than today. (And if you didn´t know he is born same year as Petter)

[A.F.F.]

the difference is Loeb never lost touch with the top....i think its important.

Loeb never had to compete with poor machinery. Petter had a bad period but his cars weren't good by the end of Subaru-days which frustrated him and killed his selfconfidence.

[denkimi]

man , what's Loeb gonna be like when he hits his 40's ??

:)
even more experienced, so even faster/consistant.

[N.O.T]

A rallydriver is at his best around the 40´s I´d say. And Petter has a lot to do in WRC before he retires, that´s for sure.

LOL nice...

I think Kimi should return to the sport when he is 40

LOL

how many champions do we have above the age of 35 and how many below that ?

[N.O.T]

Loeb never had to compete with poor machinery. Petter had a bad period but his cars weren't good by the end of Subaru-days which frustrated him and killed his selfconfidence.

well Hirvonen had a disastrous season with Subaru.... He did not fade after that.... quite the opposite.

the fact that i argue with a FIN about a Norwegian and i am on the wrong end is just surreal.... thats why i love you AFF.

[A FONDO]

Loeb never had to compete with poor machinery. Petter had a bad period but his cars weren't good by the end of Subaru-days which frustrated him and killed his selfconfidence.
Isnt the driver himself partly responsible for developing the car????

[ste898]

well Hirvonen had a disastrous season with Subaru.... He did not fade after that.... quite the opposite.

the fact that i argue with a FIN about a Norwegian and i am on the wrong end is just surreal.... thats why i love you AFF.

Maybe the reason he didnt fade was because the speed has never been there lol!!!!!!!!!!

[Coach 2]

Remember, Loeb can not spell, so other drivers can of course beat him.
But it requires of course that they at least have as good a car as he has.
The best thing about Loeb is that he actually stand to be number two or three, the few times he or the car is not functioning at peak performance. That situation are never the other drivers in, as Loeb normally wins the first rally of the year and rarely less than number two in the next rallies (if he does not win those, too).
The same situation was there for the other drivers during Mækinen time at the top.
This gives a sykologisk advantage that no one has mastered the past 7 years.

But for the sport's sake, let's hope someone can do it this year.

PS. Unless P.S. can do it, who can?

[sollitt]

I'm reading a lot of very feeble excuses in support of Solberg. The reality is N.O.T is correct as usual. If Solberg wins anything this year it'll be by default.

[N.O.T]

Isnt the driver himself partly responsible for developing the car????

not necessarily...

[Rallyper]

LOL nice...

I think Kimi should return to the sport when he is 40

LOL

how many champions do we have above the age of 35 and how many below that ?

You never forget Kimi and his WRC career do you? He still have his age though.

We didn´t talk about champions, only winnerdrivers above the 40´s.

[N.O.T]

You never forget Kimi and his WRC career do you? He still have his age though.

We didn´t talk about champions, only winnerdrivers above the 40´s.

winners above 40 ?? how many are there ??? and how many wins do they have ??

be serious please.

If a driver is excpetional he can of course win above 40, but there is a difference between getting an odd win and consider around 40s the best age as you said...

I will never forget Kimi and his championship winning skills ... diamonds like that are forever

Does he fit in the oversized girl vehicle he will drive this season ? or hamburgers took their toll ???

[Coach 2]

H.M. wins his first championship forty-one year old.
S.B: winning his at thirty-eight years age.

[N.O.T]

H.M. wins his first championship forty-one year old.
S.B: winning his at thirty-eight years age.

who is HM and SB ?? use proper names...it is disrespectful to the sport to refer to rally drivers with initials...its ok for little girls and ladyboys with ego problems in other sports but not here.

you named 2 people.... one of them has more championships when he was near the age of 30-35 rather than 40.

the other won when the sport was totally different and far easier to win and compete.

[Rallyper]

who is HM and SB ?? use proper names...it is disrespectful to the sport to refer to rally drivers with initials...its ok for little girls and ladyboys with ego problems in other sports but not here.

you named 2 people.... one of them has more championships when he was near the age of 30-35 rather than 40.

the other won when the sport was totally different and far easier to win and compete.

You never give up, do you? Confess that you´re overproved of age of winners in WRC. No matter what explanations you try to come up with.

[WRCS14]

Many people and even my self at times think that Petter is an old driver and could retire at any minute in the last year or so but isnt Loeb a few months older? Very rarely does anybody mention the age of the french man but ok his results are superior.

Did we not have a different view 10 years ago. Auriol had a pretty good year in 99, so did Juha. They were both maybe 40 or 41 at that point. Carlos has doing well back in 2003 and 2004. OK yes none of them were winning 9 events a year but I think back then not as many us were thinking they should be give up.

Back then I would have been thinking that some one who is 35 had maybe another good 7 years left.

[N.O.T]

You never give up, do you? Confess that you´re overproved of age of winners in WRC. No matter what explanations you try to come up with.

can you please prove me wrong and name the drivers that were 38-42 years of age and won championships and events ?? and how many events and championships have they won ??

please.... i hate statistics and numbers.

and also include the weight of future WRC champion Kimi Icecube.

[Coach 2]

who is HM and SB ?? use proper names...it is disrespectful to the sport to refer to rally drivers with initials...its ok for little girls and ladyboys with ego problems in other sports but not here.

you named 2 people.... one of them has more championships when he was near the age of 30-35 rather than 40.

the other won when the sport was totally different and far easier to win and compete.

I refer to the world championships.
And I think there are so many who seem very smart, so I thought you knew who I meant.
You can try NOT, but "YOU" do not get me angry,

I meant, of course, Hannu M. and Stig B. in 83 and 84

[N.O.T]

a little help

peter in 2003 was 29
gronholm in 2002 32
burns in 2001 34
makinen in 1999 35
mcrae in 1994 28
Auriol in 93 36
Sainz in 1992 30
Italian Fraud in 89 31
salonen in 1985 34
Blomquist in 1984 38
Mikkola in 1983 42
Rohrl in 1982 was 35
Vatanen in 1981 29
Waldegard in 1979 was 36

i of course excluded the years that were won by the same drivers and they were younger at the time...

so as you can see as far as champions go 40s is not a very good age...

I am so good it makes my brain hurt.....

[Coach 2]

But it seems that between 35 and 40 can be ok.
So both Loeb and Solberg have a chance.

[A.F.F.]

You make everybody's brain hurt Mr. Mousefart :)

[WRCS14]

Auriol came close in 1999 NOT, but then he crash into a tree I think in Australia and I cant remember why he retire in RAC but he was ony 10 points off Tommi. I always thought if he finished Australia it could have been different but it was not to be .

[A.F.F.]

I'm not saying Petter is able to par Loeb's pace but I claim Petter is still faster than his recent couple of years make him look like... speedwise!! That I am saying. Kind of.

[A.F.F.]

well Hirvonen had a disastrous season with Subaru.... He did not fade after that.... quite the opposite.

the fact that i argue with a FIN about a Norwegian and i am on the wrong end is just surreal.... thats why i love you AFF.

Well, let's not stick our *** up in each other's arses just yet. ;)

I'm not saying Petter is able to par Loeb's pace but I claim Petter is still faster than his recent couple of years make him look like... speedwise!! That I am saying. Kind of.

[sollitt]

a little help

Blomquist in 1984 38
Mikkola in 1983 42
.....
And let's not forget that in 83 & 84 Audi had the 4WD race all to themselves.


I'm not saying Petter is able to par Loeb's pace but I claim Petter is still faster than his recent couple of years make him look like... speedwise!! That I am saying. Kind of.
Yet to be proven, however I'd like nothing more. Time will tell.

[N.O.T]

I'm not saying Petter is able to par Loeb's pace but I claim Petter is still faster than his recent couple of years make him look like... speedwise!! That I am saying. Kind of.

well his recent years show he is slower than Loeb/Latvala and Hirvonen and that is what i am saying also...is he faster than any of these drivers today ??

you guys are strange...when someone says that a driver cannot win rallies or championships doesn't mean that he thinks the driver is useless...Peter is still nice to watch and i want him to stay in the WRC for as long as he can deliver a good pace, but he cannot win anything anymore due to speed.

time will tell...

[N.O.T]

Well, let's not stick our *** up in each other's arses just yet. ;)



:( :(

Damn...all my hopes are ruined...

:( :(

[A.F.F.]

But when someone says a driver is a tomatocan or a sick dog, I tend to associate it to useless.

[A.F.F.]

:( :(

Damn...all my hopes are ruined...

:( :(

Hmm... Do you think Brother John will even remotely think we're still in to topic? :p :

[BDunnell]

And let's not forget that in 83 & 84 Audi had the 4WD race all to themselves.

Only true if one is talking about the whole '84 season, of course, given Peugeot's restricted programme.

[OldF]

OK, I already forgot what this thread is about but the discussion is so funny so keep going on guys. ;)

[sollitt]

Only true if one is talking about the whole '84 season, of course, given Peugeot's restricted programme.Of course we're talking about the whole season. That's what the accumulation of championship points is all about.

[N.O.T]

But when someone says a driver is a tomatocan or a sick dog, I tend to associate it to useless.

did i mention paaasonen anywhere ?? ...lol

[Viking]

Well, I don't think Petter will be this years champion. I can't see Latvala as one either or the original "can opener" Hirvonen....

So Loeb will win it.... unless he takes up mountain biking again :)

[Munkvy]

I think that Solberg will most likely win rallies this year and has a reasonable chance of ending up with more points in the championship than Latvala.

However I don't think he is consistently fast enough to get enough podiums to beat Loeb. As for wins, that will largely come down to Wilson I suspect as to whether given the opportunity to win he is allowed to, after all he is the number 2 driver and only has a 1 year contract...

[Brother John]

a little help

I am so good it makes my brain hurt.....

Is this thread not about Petter Solberg guys?


You make everybody's brain hurt Mr. Mousefart :)

To make jokes is good but not everyone wants it here.


Well, let's not stick our *** up in each other's arses just yet. ;) I'm not saying Petter is able to par Loeb's pace but I claim Petter is still faster than his recent couple of years make him look like... speedwise!! That I am saying. Kind of.

This is also pub talk guys


Damn...all my hopes are ruined... :(

Many of these posts are no longer welcom here for many members. What should we do about it?


But when someone says a driver is a tomatocan or a sick dog, I tend to associate it to useless.

This is pub talk boys


Hmm... Do you think Brother John will even remotely think we're still in to topic? :p :

There are currently more complaints about some members so I call this pub talk.


did i mention paaasonen anywhere ?? ...lol

This is pub talk boys.

I do not know how I should solve this. There will always be people who want something different here.

[Mirek]

Brother John, please, stop this excessive effort to clean threads. This is not encyclopedia but forum - a place to discuss, to talk and to enjoy continuous discussion with others, not to search where post were moved because someone feels it should be moved etc.

A moderation in my opinion shall be limited to absolute minimum - the best moderator makes his work so that it is almost invisible and all his actions are natural for users (like when You move a video from championship of Australia from the thread of French championship to Australian people doesn't even notice You did something and everything goes on continuously).

Some off-topic is natural unless You want to make this forum an academic board - absolutely correct but completely sterile and cold. Sharing emotions, jokes and feelings are an important reason why people come here. If they search only for information, they can go to standard media web pages and encyclopedias.

Sorry if it offends You but in these days I'm really loosing my interest in the forum.

[MJW]

[quote="Mirek"]
Absolutely agree, and I have been here a long time.

[A.F.F.]

C'mon Brother John, are you serious?? Back in your mortal days you were also joking around and I recall you found it funny.

Did we, N.O.T. and I get reports from our posts? Did other members find it offending? If we did then it's ok to remove our posts, it's fine by me. But I couldn't agree more to Mirek's post above. If this is the way to interact here on the forum, I'm pretty much done, I don't find it interesting.

I hope I didn't offend you.

[BDunnell]

Of course we're talking about the whole season. That's what the accumulation of championship points is all about.

I am, with respect, aware of that. But it is clearly wrong to say that Audi had 4wd all to themselves in 1984.

[N.O.T]

Brother john you have to understand when a thread gets derailed and when a few forum members just do some fun talk to break the monotony of the arguments...

in this case a simple "back on solberg topic" would do i think...

[noel157]

Is this thread not about Petter Solberg guys?



To make jokes is good but not everyone wants it here.



This is also pub talk guys



Many of these posts are no longer welcom here for many members. What should we do about it?



This is pub talk boys



There are currently more complaints about some members so I call this pub talk.



This is pub talk boys.

I do not know how I should solve this. There will always be people who want something different here.

Nice thread-killer there Brother John. As Mirek, MJW, AFF and NOT allude to, you are destroying this forum and driving members away.
You ask for opinions etc in your so-called "pub" thread and don't even respond (other than a pointless "like").

Moderators (of long standing), please sort this out. It's wrong what this person is doing.

[BDunnell]

Brother John, please, stop this excessive effort to clean threads. This is not encyclopedia but forum - a place to discuss, to talk and to enjoy continuous discussion with others, not to search where post were moved because someone feels it should be moved etc.

A moderation in my opinion shall be limited to absolute minimum - the best moderator makes his work so that it is almost invisible and all his actions are natural for users (like when You move a video from championship of Australia from the thread of French championship to Australian people doesn't even notice You did something and everything goes on continuously).

Some off-topic is natural unless You want to make this forum an academic board - absolutely correct but completely sterile and cold. Sharing emotions, jokes and feelings are an important reason why people come here. If they search only for information, they can go to standard media web pages and encyclopedias.

I agree completely. In life, conversations, debates, etc go off on tangents. Such is always going to be reflected in a forum. Unless the discussion gets offensive, the moderators should let it be.

[J.Lindstroem]

Nice thread-killer there Brother John. As Mirek, MJW, AFF and NOT allude to, you are destroying this forum and driving members away.
You ask for opinions etc in your so-called "pub" thread and don't even respond (other than a pointless "like").

Moderators (of long standing), please sort this out. It's wrong what this person is doing.

I'll press "like" on this post.

[J.Lindstroem]

I agree completely. In life, conversations, debates, etc go off on tangents. Such is always going to be reflected in a forum. Unless the discussion gets offensive, the moderators should let it be.

Haha, funny how you compare it with real life. I agree. What would we think of a person who interupts conversations with the frase "this is off topic" in real life. Brother John, you need to either calm down or step down.

[janvanvurpa]

Is this thread not about Petter Solberg guys?



To make jokes is good but not everyone wants it here.



This is also pub talk guys



Many of these posts are no longer welcom here for many members. What should we do about it?



This is pub talk boys



There are currently more complaints about some members so I call this pub talk.



This is pub talk boys.

I do not know how I should solve this. There will always be people who want something different here.

Brother John. This is "discussion forum". Maybe living in Sweden you have forgotten what discussions are all about. Discussions are conversations.
Indeed an international forum like this is all about, the WHOLE POINT is about what you derisively call "pub talk" and imply that there is something wrong with it.

What else do you think this forum is? A technical discussion forum? Now personally I would love to know exact detail of all the cars like bore and stroke and valve sizes, and gearbox and final drive, turbocharger internal parts dimensions and I would be overjoyed to know the suspension travel, valving and spring rates.....
But that is because I work full time building rally motors and suspension..
The fact that people don't discuss that stuff here, and instead just do "pub talk" means that's what they want to do.

In real life much of the depth and texture comes from what some people consider "off topic"...
Further with so many different home languages and widely different cultures, and ways of speaking it is often needed a little time to understand the point of what some may say, some discussion first---to even begin to know if something is "off topic"...

Nothing personal but you fundamentally have misunderstood what the point of a social gathering like this forum is supposed to be.
You have become the "classic" bad moderator disturbing and disrupting conversations solely because of your own personal---not "forum-ular" whims.

For the good of the forum, you should request Mark to demote you back to being just an ordinary guy just like the rest of us..

Nothing can kill a forum like a heavy handed immoderate moderator..

[Langdale Forest]

Italian Fraud in 89 31





What is your excuse for diminishing a double WRC champion?
And how can someone winning a championship be a fraud?

Please can you explain?

[kiil]

This is pub talk boys.

I do not know how I should solve this. There will always be people who want something different here.

No offense, but you have totally misunderstood the moderator job.

[Gard]

Brother John. This is "discussion forum". Maybe living in Sweden you have forgotten what discussions are all about. Discussions are conversations.
Indeed an international forum like this is all about, the WHOLE POINT is about what you derisively call "pub talk" and imply that there is something wrong with it.

What else do you think this forum is? A technical discussion forum? Now personally I would love to know exact detail of all the cars like bore and stroke and valve sizes, and gearbox and final drive, turbocharger internal parts dimensions and I would be overjoyed to know the suspension travel, valving and spring rates.....
But that is because I work full time building rally motors and suspension..
The fact that people don't discuss that stuff here, and instead just do "pub talk" means that's what they want to do.

In real life much of the depth and texture comes from what some people consider "off topic"...
Further with so many different home languages and widely different cultures, and ways of speaking it is often needed a little time to understand the point of what some may say, some discussion first---to even begin to know if something is "off topic"...

Nothing personal but you fundamentally have misunderstood what the point of a social gathering like this forum is supposed to be.
You have become the "classic" bad moderator disturbing and disrupting conversations solely because of your own personal---not "forum-ular" whims.

For the good of the forum, you should request Mark to demote you back to being just an ordinary guy just like the rest of us..

Nothing can kill a forum like a heavy handed immoderate moderator..

Nothing kills a forum like loads of BS, in discussions. Members should try keeping to the subject. We have a lot of knowlegde amongst the members here. To much BS, will send them away. That doesn't mean we can't have lot of fun in the threads too. We also have separate treads for pub talk and other BS. Example. What about finding the bashing Matt thread and keep the bashing there :-O

[mm1]

So who is fault now that this thread got derailed, I think Brother John stepping up his carrier ladder became too powerful :)

[Jake Stephens]

Is this thread not about Petter Solberg guys?



To make jokes is good but not everyone wants it here.



This is also pub talk guys



Many of these posts are no longer welcom here for many members. What should we do about it?



This is pub talk boys



There are currently more complaints about some members so I call this pub talk.



This is pub talk boys.

I do not know how I should solve this. There will always be people who want something different here.

Would you agree that your own intervention as a moderator has, more so than what you have labelled as this 'pub talk', derailed the topic?

[sollitt]

But it is clearly wrong to say that Audi had 4wd all to themselves in 1984. Are you suggesting that, in the context of a 12 round championship, having opposition for just 4 of those rounds constitutes not having it to yourself?

[sollitt]

Brother John, you need to either calm down or step down.

you have totally misunderstood the moderator job
Both comments are spot on.

[janvanvurpa]

Nothing kills a forum like loads of BS, in discussions. Members should try keeping to the subject. We have a lot of knowlegde amongst the members here. To much BS, will send them away. That doesn't mean we can't have lot of fun in the threads too. We also have separate treads for pub talk and other BS. Example. What about finding the bashing Matt thread and keep the bashing there :-O

there was nothing "bashing" poor Brother John.
The problem in all forum is "Who decides what BS is". I said I would love details, right down to the mm of what turbocharger compressor wheels are, and what gear ratios were/are used in todays car and previous cars. more photographs of suspension parts in great detail, what bearings in the wheel hubs etc...

But that is not what this forum is about. This forum is broader, more about the general "ambiance" or atmosphär runt hela kalaset. It is primarily a forum of hard core FANS and just a few actually connected in any active way....
35 years ago when I live in the frozen, Lutheran North a little to the East of you I would have said like you are saying and like Brother John is doing, but then I spent 2 seasons racing on the Continent, mostly France, and saw the error in my way: it is not all shocks and gears and crankshafts, its the social bonding aound a common interest that makes the sport, moto-cross in my case, rally when i got "old' at 34, memorable, and fun.

Look at the friendships formed and the people visiting eachother on VM rallys all around. That's off topic!

Nej drengen, somebody already said it:
Would somebody in a big social gathering actually walk around the room, stopping now and then to catch a few words of some ongoing discussion and say "That's off topic, stop talking and go over there!" then move to the next ground and interrupt again? And again..

Nej, the whole forum is one giant Pub Talk, that is the foundation of all rally, only thing that's missing is beer and some förnuft.

I'll tell you something I never learned in Sweden but I learned in France, not about racing but about life: Relax, take it easy. (I became a better racer and a better person when I finally learned that)

[tfp]

So....I hear Petter Solberg has joined Ford this year!

[Sulland]

Yes, and for those interested I have made a thread for the moderator role discussion under the Rally Marshalling section.

[OldF]

So....I hear Petter Solberg has joined Ford this year!

Good morning tfp. ;)

[tfp]

Good morning tfp. ;)

Morning OldF ;) I got a little tired with all of these moderator complaints ;)

[noel157]

So....I hear Petter Solberg has joined Ford this year!

Link? :)

[A.F.F.]

We should open a thread about it!!

[cali]

Who is Petter Solberg?

[Barreis]

Watch out, BJ will waste you all. :D

[tfp]

Hahaha!!

[bluuford]

Where is Loix?

[BDunnell]

Are you suggesting that, in the context of a 12 round championship, having opposition for just 4 of those rounds constitutes not having it to yourself?

Factually, your statement was incorrect. Figuratively, as I said, it is accurate.

[A.F.F.]

But what I was saying earlier, I still think Petter is happier than for a long time. And why is it important he is happy? Because happier he is, faster he is.

I would love to hear stories behind the curtains from his retirement from Prodrive to how he was treated as a customer driver by Citroen. My feeling is that it wasn't all happy happy joy joy.....

[N.O.T]

But what I was saying earlier, I still think Petter is happier than for a long time. And why is it important he is happy? Because happier he is, faster he is.

I would love to hear stories behind the curtains from his retirement from Prodrive to how he was treated as a customer driver by Citroen. My feeling is that it wasn't all happy happy joy joy.....

he got the customer driver treatment...

when you are a customer your money are as good as the next persons no matter the skill level.

[A.F.F.]

he got the customer driver treatment...

when you are a customer your money are as good as the next persons no matter the skill level.

But you don't believe in the laptop-theories?

Meaning you don't find sudden engine powerLESS peculiar, especially when Petter was in the top?

[sollitt]

Figuratively, as I said, it is accurate. Of course I was talking 'figuratively'. Or is that forbidden under the new moderating regime?

[tfp]

But you don't believe in the laptop-theories?

Meaning you don't find sudden engine powerLESS peculiar, especially when Petter was in the top?

Last season, I just thought Petter struggled to get to the grips with the new car, and he wasn't as adaptable as, say, Hirvonen for example.
This season however, he equalled his best finish last year(3rd) in his first rally with a new car. So I dont think he struggles with adapting to a new car!


he got the customer driver treatment...

when you are a customer your money are as good as the next persons no matter the skill level.

In this sense you (IMO) are correct, the car Citroen will provide for you is only as good as how much money you have in your pockets!
So his car wasn't as fast as the manufacturers....But we already knew that diddn't we :s mokin: ;)

[A.F.F.]

Last season, I just thought Petter struggled to get to the grips with the new car, and he wasn't as adaptable as, say, Hirvonen for example.
This season however, he equalled his best finish last year(3rd) in his first rally with a new car. So I dont think he struggles with adapting to a new car!


So what do you say? Do you think team Citroen decreased the engine power in Petter's customer car in certain rallyes?

[bretddog]

I think Petter adapts pretty quickly to new cars. Catalunya 2009 he was right up to speed after a few stages in the C4. This year the same.

2010 Petter scored 8 podiums and 5 2nd places. For 2011 Quesnel could not have that happen, as Ogier's title-bid was the priority target, and Petter would certainly get in the way of that if he repeated his effort. Hence his DS3 was down-mapped to keep him just barely out of touch. Can't get more obvious than that..

[tfp]

But you don't believe in the laptop-theories?

Meaning you don't find sudden engine powerLESS peculiar, especially when Petter was in the top?


So what do you say? Do you think team Citroen decreased the engine power in Petter's customer car in certain rallyes?

Quite possibly, I thought he'd win the Acropolis last year after the huge lead he had after the first day.
If nothing else, it was proven in France that his clutch was different, it makes you think what else was different from the works cars.

[tfp]

I think Petter adapts pretty quickly to new cars. Catalunya 2009 he was right up to speed after a few stages in the C4. This year the same.

2010 Petter scored 8 podiums and 5 2nd places. For 2011 Quesnel could not have that happen, as Ogier's title-bid was the priority target, and Petter would certainly get in the way of that if he repeated his effort. Hence his DS3 was down-mapped to keep him just barely out of touch. Can't get more obvious than that..

:up:

[Gard]

So what do you say? Do you think team Citroen decreased the engine power in Petter's customer car in certain rallyes?

It has nothing to do with decreasing power. Customer cars never get the same mapping as the factory cars. Citroen selects mapping that makes sure his engine last the distance. That's pure cost saving. Sometimes (when necessary) Citroen needed to make extra sure the engine would stand the distance :-)

[A.F.F.]

Ok, then why Petter publicly wondered the sudden change of mapping ? First day car works like a dream and after Citroen's laptop-guys make a visit, car goes nowhere?

[cali]

Still a speculation, no proof from anyone and there are lots of reasons for decreased pace, not only engine mapping.

[A.F.F.]

I'm not into conspiracy theories either but I have to admit that particular case got my interest. Anyway, I rest my case now.

[Gard]

Ok, then why Petter publicly wondered the sudden change of mapping ? First day car works like a dream and after Citroen's laptop-guys make a visit, car goes nowhere?

Typical example. Citroen thought they had been a bit too generous on the mapping. So they needed to make "extra sure" the engine would last. Petter would never find out, unless he noticed the difference.

[dimviii]

Ok, then why Petter publicly wondered the sudden change of mapping ? First day car works like a dream and after Citroen's laptop-guys make a visit, car goes nowhere?

yes at first day only on gravel rallies,when he had the best position by far.Citroens were 1-2 at almost all championship,so were cleaning the road whole year.At second days clearly he was cleaning the road thats why he wasn t fast.
At asphalt rallies why his ds3 wasn t fast even at 1 st day???????
Citroen laptop guys visit every ds3 at EVERY service to collect data.Same we do at every loop even at hillclimbs.
Wait to see that this year is not going to be different with a works car,that is still powerfull at all days.
This year we are going to see a lot of truth about ''ds3 is better than fiesta'' or ''my car is less powerfull''
We have just to be patience, and watch/analyse results with wide open eyes...

[Viking]

But why are we discussing Citroens policy for remapping customer cars or if the latest homoligated parts go on their customers cars as soon as it goes on the official factory cars?, Petter is in factory Ford now ;)
Of course there will be an difference, Citroen (or any other team) will have cars that is just so reliable and cheap as possible, but they want them to beat other teams "customer cars" just to keep you as an... customer.

If you would have in written that you should have the same specs as Seb, they would probably charge you for the full cost for development of parts as well...

[A.F.F.]

I used that to base my claim that this year ín forthcoming rallyes, it'll be interesting to see if Petter's pace will stay on top level throughout the rally and not just in the first leg??

[dimviii]

I used that to base my claim that this year ín forthcoming rallyes, it'll be interesting to see if Petter's pace will stay on top level throughout the rally and not just in the first leg??
99,95 % will be the same as last year.

[bretddog]

Some people will always believe honesty is the ruling power of humanity, afraid to investigate conspiracies as confidence they take only from sharing the opinion of the majority, and never understand anything, but simply think the world affairs are very complex.. This is what makes you the sheeple. You're like a piece of lego, stable, consistent, predictable, a useful brick. But you will never see the truth, or the nature of the structure you're part of. Though for your heart and soul, it's more gentle.. You will live longer, with less concern, so it has it's advantages.

[cali]

Some people will always believe honesty is the ruling power of humanity, afraid to investigate conspiracies as confidence they take only from sharing the opinion of the majority, and never understand anything, but simply think the world affairs are very complex.. This is what makes you the sheeple. You're like a piece of lego, stable, consistent, predictable, a useful brick. But you will never see the truth, or the nature of the structure you're part of. Though for your heart and soul, it's more gentle.. You will live longer, with less concern, so it has it's advantages.
Sorry, but this coming from norwegian about Petter, I tend not to believe it (nothing against norwegians, but you are very patriotic people ;) ). What we need is a reliable source cause at the moment this is speculation without any proof or knowledge. Too much conspiracy theories going on, that is what pushes me away from these "theories".
Like stated here before, we'll see soon as championship goes further and we can evaluate Petter's performance in a factory team. I really hope he will be serious contender against Citroens and Latvala :)

[dimviii]

Sorry, but this coming from norwegian about Petter, I tend not to believe it (nothing against norwegians, but you are very patriotic people ;) ). What we need is a reliable source cause at the moment this is speculation without any proof or knowledge. Too much conspiracy theories going on, that is what pushes me away from these "theories".
Like stated here before, we'll see soon as championship goes further and we can evaluate Petter's performance in a factory team. I really hope he will be serious contender against Citroens and Latvala :)
Absolutely agree.Plenty of fans can t accept that their indalma can be slower from another one.So they have to create some theories-speculations etc.Except that they are totally blind at their drivers mistakes which costs minutes.They don t like to see these problems.It is more easy for them to speculate that at service the Citroen laptop guy lost some 20 horses,or steal some 5 kilos of torque.


.

[bretddog]

.. Too much conspiracy theories going on, that is what pushes me away from these "theories".

That is exactly my point, you just slip right into the definition.

You fail to see that believing Petter's engine was not down-mapped, is just as much a theory as any other view. Your labeling of what is the acceptable opinion and what is speculation comes from what? Just your belief.

What you are really saying is that you will never believe anything that is not proven. This is somewhat normal, though it's quite flawed unless you believe all breakthroughs of science descended from God.

It just shows you trust other people, but not your own judgement.

[cali]

That is exactly my point, you just slip right into the definition.

You fail to see that believing Petter's engine was not down-mapped, is just as much a theory as any other view. Your labeling of what is the acceptable opinion and what is speculation comes from what? Just your belief.

What you are really saying is that you will never believe anything that is not proven. This is somewhat normal, though it's quite flawed unless you believe all breakthroughs of science descended from God.

It just shows you trust other people, but not your own judgement.

Quite vice versa, but you always need something to back these speculation, not just believe every hearsay. I've been involved in a different sport for a while and the hearsay about me or about my colleagues is sometimes funny, sometimes ridicilous. So I tend to believe people who actually are involved and have somekind of backing to their words.

PS! Nobody complains here that, for example, Matthew Wilson's car is "downgraded". It's always the Solberg brothers :p

[janvanvurpa]

PS! Nobody complains here that, for example, Matthew Wilson's car is "downgraded". It's always the Solberg brothers :p

how would they even tell? 8)

[Tomi]

PS! Nobody complains here that, for example, Matthew Wilson's car is "downgraded". It's always the Solberg brothers :p

Spot on, and always the same people crying, at first it was amusing now its only pathetic anymore.

[WRCS14]

I maybe not believe a lot of the laptop related stories either but then I did read Anthony Warmbold blog and it seems one day he was given the strong engine by mistake when a different engineer was working on his car electronics. I think there is probably some element of truth in these stories.

[bretddog]

Quite vice versa, but you always need something to back these speculation, not just believe every hearsay.

Why would you make the base assumption that the cars are equal? Why is not the base assumption that the cars are not equal, and any other theory is speculation? Tell me the reason for this please..?

There surely must exist some foundation of facts or proof confirming your view, since your main argument against the other is that there exists (in your opinion) none?

Instead of giving plausible arguments supporting your opinion, you just shoot from the hip, labeling the opposite as speculation, hearsay and conspiracies. And demanding proof that you don't demand of yourself. It just indicates lack of objectivity.

To me they are both simply theories. And the discussion should be about what arguments can support each view.

[Tomi]

To me they are both simply theories. And the discussion should be about what arguments can support each view.

Thiskind of speculation is pure waste of virtual space and until you know for sure what team and driver has agreed about in the contract, and that is something you will never find out.

[EightGear]

Remember France last year? Petter said he had something like a new-specification engine, and ooops, he almost led after day 1.

[bretddog]

Thiskind of speculation is pure waste of virtual space and until you know for sure what team and driver has agreed about in the contract, and that is something you will never find out.
Not sure what you mean by this, but I don't think I ever suggested that costumer drivers are being deceived against their contractual agreements. Very unlikely that it would state that the engine shall perform equal to the factory drivers. Or there can be agreed the car has x amount of power less than the factory cars, and such agreement may also change during the season. My point is simply that their engines are controlled and set to less performance than factory cars.

Petter's comments over the last years has indicated that his contract on the C4 was quite firm on what performance deficit the engine had. He made specific comments I believe on the upgraded C4; the number of hp he was down, how much it would mean in fractional sec/km, and that he meant this was small enough to gain back by pushing harder. Though even to get the DS3 seemed to be a hard deal, and with less contractual assurances about the engine.

[Barreis]

With ds3 he didn't have testing while with c4 he could have test before every event.

[bretddog]

With ds3 he didn't have testing while with c4 he could have test before every event.
Partly true.. though he did in fact test for I think 8 of 13 rallies in 2011, one day usually.

[janvanvurpa]

Why would you make the base assumption that the cars are equal? Why is not the base assumption that the cars are not equal, and any other theory is speculation? Tell me the reason for this please..?

There surely must exist some foundation of facts or proof confirming your view, since your main argument against the other is that there exists (in your opinion) none?

Instead of giving plausible arguments supporting your opinion, you just shoot from the hip, labeling the opposite as speculation, hearsay and conspiracies. And demanding proof that you don't demand of yourself. It just indicates lack of objectivity.

To me they are both simply theories. And the discussion should be about what arguments can support each view.


Pub Talk!

Neither are "theories", both are idle speculation. Chat
in short PUB TALK!!!!!

It's silly. entirely too silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0f2aFhZ3Uk

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c0f2aFhZ3Uk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bretddog]

Pub Talk!

Neither are "theories", both are idle speculation. Chat
in short PUB TALK!!!!!

It's silly. entirely too silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0f2aFhZ3Uk


Instead of having 1% of members shouting "pub talk" whenever they feel upset, maybe we should create you a peaceful retirement-thread where you are only allowed to post if you agree with previous posts. How we decide who will start..?

[janvanvurpa]

Instead of having 1% of members shouting "pub talk" whenever they feel upset, maybe we should create you a peaceful retirement-thread where you are only allowed to post if you agree with previous posts. How we decide who will start..?

Fattar du ingenting, det är ironi. Jag är inte ''feeling upset'' jag tror det är totalt larviga att Brother john känner att forumet måste ''städas''...

Ena mans ''teknis diskussionen'' är en annans skit-prat.

[EightGear]

Yeah, I didn't understand a single word of that.

[J.Lindstroem]

Fattar du ingenting, det är ironi. Jag är inte ''feeling upset'' jag tror det är totalt larviga att Brother john känner att forumet måste ''städas''...

Ena mans ''teknis diskussionen'' är en annans skit-prat.

I dont understand the meaning of this broken swedish you put up sometimes. entertaining though! :)

[bretddog]

Fattar du ingenting, det är ironi. Jag är inte ''feeling upset'' jag tror det är totalt larviga att Brother john känner att forumet måste ''städas''...

Ena mans ''teknis diskussionen'' är en annans skit-prat.
The post was irony..? Under what 'promille'? I think you need to train some on this technique. Or maybe you just shouldn't..

Perhaps at home you should have a meter, and include the reading in brackets of every post.

[tfp]

Yeah, I didn't understand a single word of that.

At least Im not on my own with that one:-)

[sollitt]

It's all quite clear really. What John was saying is that the irony is, rather than being upset as bretddog suggests, he was articulating how silly Brother John was in his belief that the forum needed cleaning up. And that one man's expert opinion is another man's bullshyt.

[janvanvurpa]

It's all quite clear really. What John was saying is that the irony is, rather than being upset as bretddog suggests, he was articulating how silly Brother John was in his belief that the forum needed cleaning up. And that one man's expert opinion is another man's bullshyt.

Nailed it. I think they were looking for something too deep.

I keep saying I'd LOVE even simple lists of technical details.....lengths , spring rates gear tooth counts, everything---I don't even care about discussions because for me, the numbers speak...because I manufacture rally suspension and built parts and motors. I WANT info and photos and measurements.

But brettdog seems to believe if he is writing about anything, it is a worthy technical discussion evidently solely because he is writing, while anybody else is not discussing anything worthy... But I don't see much different between his assertions and anybody else'.

Of course almost none of us know the backgrounds in detail enough to know if one persons opinion is more worthwhile than another and we don't know if people have any detailed working knowledge, because i never see any numbers for anything....so I say the discussion is all just rally related chit chat---"related".

Saying "the Citroen is obviously stronger" is not technical discussion , nor is "you can clearly see it" a refutation....

[janvanvurpa]

At least Im not on my own with that one:-)

Its a dialect found in far North of Yorkshire up them dales....The ones that are all clear old Viking place names.
I'm surprised you don't ??? you originally from down Souf?

[bretddog]

Nailed it. I think they were looking for something too deep.

I keep saying I'd LOVE even simple lists of technical details.....lengths , spring rates gear tooth counts, everything---I don't even care about discussions because for me, the numbers speak...because I manufacture rally suspension and built parts and motors. I WANT info and photos and measurements.

But brettdog seems to believe if he is writing about anything, it is a worthy technical discussion evidently solely because he is writing, while anybody else is not discussing anything worthy... But I don't see much different between his assertions and anybody else'.

Of course almost none of us know the backgrounds in detail enough to know if one persons opinion is more worthwhile than another and we don't know if people have any detailed working knowledge, because i never see any numbers for anything....so I say the discussion is all just rally related chit chat---"related".

Saying "the Citroen is obviously stronger" is not technical discussion , nor is "you can clearly see it" a refutation....

Too much philosophy, too little thought from you.

I was the only one to cut the discussion down to intellectual arguments, and I have many left. Just for the fun of it, to test if anyone had anything to show for. But nobody was able to come up with a single peep of sense to answer, just name-calling. And you were no more than one of them..

[cali]

Too much philosophy, too little thought from you.

I was the only one to cut the discussion down to intellectual arguments, and I have many left. Just for the fun of it, to test if anyone had anything to show for. But nobody was able to come up with a single peep of sense to answer, just name-calling. And you were no more than one of them..
Biased arguements I must say, but OK, everybody has their own "truth". Nobody has showed any facts, just personal opinions based on their belief. So you actually qualify as "one of them".

[mm1]

Every topic I open is spamed full with this bs...

[tfp]

Its a dialect found in far North of Yorkshire up them dales....The ones that are all clear old Viking place names.
I'm surprised you don't ??? you originally from down Souf?

Yes, there are loads of vikings that live in the Yorkshire dales, and Romans, I have a friend from there, his name is bickus dikkus.

Can we talk about Petter in Ford again....

[bretddog]

Biased arguments I must say, but OK, everybody has their own "truth". Nobody has showed any facts, just personal opinions based on their belief. So you actually qualify as "one of them".
Well I started.. To keep it simple, one can concentrate on a few:

Confirmed motives:
As I started out with; Quesnel's motives of Ogier's title-bid (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/150224-petter-solberg-ford-7.html#post1001799). That must be considered a fact. Of course, what implications this may have had for Petter's car, is an assumption, but a logical one, based on that fact.

Precedence:
- Read Warmbolds blog about ECUs of costumer cars

Control:
- We know factory teams control the costumer engine mappings, and they are not allowed to be touched. Doesn't mean they down-tune them, but it means they are at every service in a position to do so.

Driver Comments:
- For example, Petter pre-France; "they did something to the engine, it's really fast now", after he had complained for a few rallies before.

So you have the motives, the means, precedence and indirect insinuations of involved parties. Sure you can say Petter's comments may be his fantasies. And you can say that motives does not prove any action. But it's nevertheless a set of facts that points in one direction. One can discuss the validity of each of them, but that doesn't really constitute an opposite argument. It can only at best bring you back to zero (indecisive).

An opposite argument would try to explain why a costumer car is likely to be mapped just as fast as a factory car. Still good luck with that!

...
Sorry I also find this extremely boring. Just wanted to make a point to some with conspiracy-theory phobia. I think I'm done.

[tfp]

Well I started.. To keep it simple, one can concentrate on a few:

Confirmed motives:
As I started out with; Quesnel's motives of Ogier's title-bid (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/150224-petter-solberg-ford-7.html#post1001799). That must be considered a fact. Of course, what implications this may have had for Petter's car, is an assumption, but a logical one, based on that fact.

Precedence:
- Read Warmbolds blog about ECUs of costumer cars

Control:
- We know factory teams control the costumer engine mappings, and they are not allowed to be touched. Doesn't mean they down-tune them, but it means they are at every service in a position to do so.

Driver Comments:
- For example, Petter pre-France; "they did something to the engine, it's really fast now", after he had complained for a few rallies before.

So you have the motives, the means, precedence and indirect insinuations of involved parties. Sure you can say Petter's comments may be his fantasies. And you can say that motives does not prove any action. But it's nevertheless a set of facts that points in one direction. One can discuss the validity of each of them, but that doesn't really constitute an opposite argument. It can only at best bring you back to zero (indecisive).

An opposite argument would try to explain why a costumer car is likely to be mapped just as fast as a factory car. Still good luck with that!

...
Sorry I also find this extremely boring. Just wanted to make a point to some with conspiracy-theory phobia. I think I'm done.


Well said.
Results dont lie - and the fact that he competed at every event last season is his DS3 and his highest finish was 3rd place (Twice if I recall). This season now that he's in a factory team, he equalled his best finish last year in the very first event. In a new car that he had never driven competitively. And, it has to be said, on a surface that he doesn't like.
Says it all to me.

[sollitt]

Says it all to me.Maybe what it is actually saying is that Petter is limited, by his ability, to no better than the bottom rung of the podium and that the car has less to do with it. After all you can say what you like but, had Ogier been there in a Citroen, or Latvala not have crashed, or had Hirvonen still been in the Ford etc, etc, etc ... perhaps Petter might have finished 6th? Where's your theory then? No more than speculation as John suggests.

[tfp]

Maybe what it is actually saying is that Petter is limited, by his ability, to no better than the bottom rung of the podium and that the car has less to do with it. After all you can say what you like but, had Ogier been there in a Citroen, or Latvala not have crashed, or had Hirvonen still been in the Ford etc, etc, etc ... perhaps Petter might have finished 6th? Where's your theory then? No more than speculation as John suggests.

He was level with Dani Sordo up until saturday(?), considering Sordo is probably the second best tarmac specialist in the world right now, I'd say that was a good performance.

[sollitt]

Nobody said it wasn't a good performance but the discussion is about the validity of your theory that the result is indicative of the 'handicap by tuning' of last year's Citroen.
Yet last year's podiums were 20 & 40 seconds down on the winner (benchmark) whilst this result is a whopping 3 & a quarter minutes off pace which hardly supports your assertion.

[6789]

^ Monte is a unique event but

[Viking]

So, that is two down for Petter, I were hoping for just a little bit better performance in Sweden but I think he
was told to play it safe, and then there were the stone.. Still I think he has done well for an "2nd driver" can't wait for Mexico :)

Drivers points top 4

1. Sebastien Loeb 39
2. Mikko Hirvonen 32
3. Petter Solberg 29
4. Jari-Matti Latvala 25

Manufactures points

1. Sebastien Loeb 35
2. Mikko Hirvonen 30
3. Petter Solberg 30
4. Jari-Matti Latvala 25

Stage wins

Sebastien Loeb 12
Jari-Matti Latvala 9
Mikko Hirvonen 8
Petter Solberg 6

[A FONDO]

I think he was told to play it safe
LOL

[Viking]

Congrats to SlowSon! first one on my ignore list ever! and he has had some competition :D

[nr7wave]

Congrats to SlowSon! first one on my ignore list ever! and he has had some competition :D

+1 to that!

[bluuford]

Congrats to SlowSon! first one on my ignore list ever! and he has had some competition :D

Same here..

[nr7wave]

I think Petter has had a great start to the season. I aswell also would have hoped(and thought) he would have got a couple places higher. But historically, Petter has never really done very well in Sweden(with exception for his win in 2005). I suspect that Petters drivingstyle is'nt perfect for snow/ice rallys.
Same goes for Monte Carlo. He has never done very well there either. So in total, this is the best start Petter has had to a wrc season ever(points wise). Now his two "worst" rallys are done and he can focus on Mexico. This is a rally petter really enjoys and he has won it before and had a couple of second places too. So, if he gets some proper testing on gravel and the Ford engine dose'nt get "out of breath", I think Petter will be able to fight for a win.

[tmx]

I'm a bit surprised Malcolm didn't use team order to get Petter on the podium. But Ostberg performance was very good, really in contention for Petter seat if he keep it up, maybe next year (It will be interesting to see Ott and Ostberg competing each other for the seat). That is not to say I don't secretly wish Petter to outscore Jari and fight Loeb.

Sorry for being off topic.


Congrats to SlowSon! first one on my ignore list ever! and he has had some competition :D Just for that? A bit harsh I would say. Nothing compared to one other person that causes me to stop viewing and posting at this forum completely since two or three years ago, only coming back once a while, but despite the ignore list it does not block the quotes which every ones like to quote the person for some reason.

[nr7wave]

Just for that? A bit harsh I would say. .

Not just for that comment, I suspect.

[miksu]

Petter has done good job so far. Securing points is his most important task. I do wish though that he would gain some more speed and challenge for top places in some rallies, even without retirements of top guys. It looked to me he was playing little bit safe in sweden, after seeing he couldnt match JM and Hirvonens speed, as they were pushing really hard all the time and taking risks.

[Sulland]

With a top spec car that he likes and master 100%, Petter is at his best on gravel, and not far behind on asfalt !!

[Langdale Forest]

Solberg is still ahead of Latvala in the championship, so Solberg cannot be orderd to slow down to drop behind.

[Mirek]

Solberg is still ahead of Latvala in the championship, so Solberg cannot be orderd to slow down to drop behind.

Strange logic. He is ahead only because JML crashed in Monte. JML is the only one who realistically can challenge Loeb this season. That's enough to make conclusions in my opinion...

[dimviii]

Strange logic. He is ahead only because JML crashed in Monte. JML is the only one who realistically can challenge Loeb this season. That's enough to make conclusions in my opinion...

dont bother

[Langdale Forest]

Strange logic. He is ahead only because JML crashed in Monte. JML is the only one who realistically can challenge Loeb this season. That's enough to make conclusions in my opinion...

But JML is more prone to crashing, and it is too early in the season for team orders, but then this would be from a team boss who put his son who should only be driving in village events into a 7 year WRC plan.....

[WRCfan]

Not just for that comment, I suspect.


So much dribble comes out of his mouth I am suprised he hasn't been cut from the forums...

[Sulland]

So far it looks like both Petter and Malcolm made a good choice when they joined forces in 2012 !!

[Barreis]

Must say that it would be so good for the sport that Solberg wins the championship.

[Fide]

Posted under WRC Ford sports thread, that Malcom refuses to name Petter as #1 in the team.....

[RAS007]

Must say that it would be so good for the sport that Solberg wins the championship.

^This. Could not agree more.

[N.O.T]

why it would be good for the sport the 4th fastest driver of the championship to win it ??

[Barreis]

Points list says it all.

[dimviii]

why it would be good for the sport the 4th fastest driver of the championship to win it ??

Because Wilsons comments will be priceless

[Viking]

In his 2003 championship winning season he were 8th in the standings after 4 rallys, I still think it is looking good so far :)

[WRCS14]

Fair point about 2003 Viking but I think the days of mega points come backs in the WRC are now nearly gone thanks to Sebastian/Citroen reliability.

I think in 1997 there was 14 events, Colin lost the championship by a single point yet retired on 6 events out of 14. Thats nearly 50% retirement and he only barely lost the chance to be champion.

If you retired on nearly 50% of events know you what would happen these days.

OK super rally may skew the stats a little bit but the way the championship is won has changed so much.

Look at 2011 the stats are crazy, 13 events and Mikko finishes 12 of them in 4th place or upwards and only retires on last round in GB and still loses the title.

I really hope Petter wins at least some rallys this year but the title may be a stretch too far.

[tfp]

Must say that it would be so good for the sport that Solberg wins the championship.

+1 :up:


Because Wilsons comments will be priceless

+about 5 :up: I hope for live streaming if this happens :D

[ste898]

I so so hop Petter wins the championship just to stick 2 fingers up at clueless wilson!!!

When will wilsone ever grow up and forget about what happened with Petter years ago its pathetic a grown man acting this way...........

[jonkka]

its pathetic a grown man acting this way...........

Pride is a noble thing in man.

[6789]

I so so hop Petter wins the championship just to stick 2 fingers up at clueless wilson!!!

When will wilsone ever grow up and forget about what happened with Petter years ago its pathetic a grown man acting this way...........
I think it would be enough if he won a rally. I think its an interesting turning point that Mads as now won a rally, see what happens but. He has been so close too many time, Japan 2010 was Petter's rally!

[Viking]

I think it would be enough if he won a rally. I think its an interesting turning point that Mads as now won a rally, see what happens but. He has been so close too many time, Japan 2010 was Petter's rally!

I think Petter was some 6min faster than Mads on the stages they both completed... It is just about stringing it together.

[6789]

I think Petter was some 6min faster than Mads on the stages they both completed... It is just about stringing it together.
Thats a fair point but something always seems to get in his way, fingers crossed because it would be awesome to see. I think he will be a big chance in NZ

[Viking]

World Rally Championship - News - Ford chiefs praise Solberg impact (http://www.wrc.com/news/ford-chiefs-praise-solberg-impact/?fid=16482)

[xavier]

I think Petter was some 6min faster than Mads on the stages they both completed... It is just about stringing it together.

Sorry, But it always seems to be Petter's fans argument. Yes if stars aligns he will win a rally again after 7(6?) years. If a galactic alignment happens he may win the championship... such event happens in 2003, it will not for many millennium.

Do not get me wrong, I love Petter, and would be thrilled to see him win. But his ratio speed/consistency makes it very unlikely to win a rally save Seb, Mikko and JML retire on that event.

[Sladden]

Sorry, But it always seems to be Petter's fans argument. Yes if stars aligns he will win a rally again after 7(6?) years. If a galactic alignment happens he may win the championship... such event happens in 2003, it will not for many millennium.

Do not get me wrong, I love Petter, and would be thrilled to see him win. But his ratio speed/consistency makes it very unlikely to win a rally save Seb, Mikko and JML retire on that event.
I agree with this.

But I mean this last rally could easily have been won by Petter. He has been out of the top podium for too long and lacks the last 1% in speed and confidence to keep it together like in the early 2000s.
On the other hand he was not the quickest driver when winning the 2003 championship.

[Fide]

At least, Petter has fans...... the rest of the other three (Seb, Miko, JML) are boring guys.... Charism=0

[Barreis]

Especially last two.

[A.F.F.]

Pretty much like you, eh?

[tfp]

Pretty much like you, eh?

:D

[Tom206wrc]

More WRC events are running along the year, the more Petter see having a FACTORY Ford finally doesn't necessarily make him having better results than in his former PRIVATE Citroën :s

[janvanvurpa]

Pride is a noble thing in man.


Pride is good for right things.
Excessive pride is a sin..
And revenge is flat stupid.

[Fide]

Anxiety is giving hard time to him.... this is the sencond time this year he trashed everything and his hands empty. Cannot imagine what Malcom talked to him.... Sad, really sad
BTW two SS after his wreckage, Loeb had a puncture, this is also like have been pissed by an elephant

[A.F.F.]

Anxiety is giving hard time to him.... this is the sencond time this year he trashed everything and his hands empty. Cannot imagine what Malcom talked to him.... Sad, really sad
BTW two SS after his wreckage, Loeb had a puncture, this is also like have been pissed by an elephant

You said it all..... :mark: