Team-mate battles of 2012!

[jens]

All teams except HRT have confirmed their driver line-ups for 2012, so it is good time to start discussing them. As the saying goes - the driver you shall first and foremost beat, is your own team-mate. So who is going to come out on top in each pairing and by how big margin?

The line-ups of the Top4 teams have remained the same, but midfield has changed a lot. I find it very intriguing that in teams from 5th (Lotus) to 9th (Williams) the most experienced driver with the exception of Räikkönen has had just a bit more than 2 years of racing in F1 (Kobayashi).

1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v ?

In addition you can make some general guesses about driver performances this year.

Who is going to be the revelation of the season? Driver, who is forcing everyone to talk about him much more than ever before and take real notice.

Alternatively, who is going to be the disappointment of the season? Specifically compared to expectations. As usual, underperformance would lead everyone to debate that "he isn't really as good as we thought"...

But every year we have performances fluctuations, someone performs above and someone below expected level. So you can guess.

Over to you. :)

[Dave B]

Can I let you know in November?

[Dr. Krogshöj]

1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v TBD

[N4D13]

Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Rosberg, Kimi, di Resta, Pérez, Ricciardo, Maldonado, Kovalainen, Glock and de la Rosa are my picks. ;)

[CNR]

1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa (you see it in motogp when their contract is up they go better)
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne (hard to call)
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli (Trulli may be replaced with Vitaly Petrov)
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v ?

Vettel v Webber redbull may have to win each race

Red Bull boss predicts gripping season for Webber in 2012

Read more: Red Bull boss predicts gripping season for Webber in 2012 (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sport/motorsport/red-bull-boss-predicts-gripping-season-for-webber-in-2012-20120121-1qb6o.html#ixzz1k8SJH7Oi)

Vettel to be 'stronger than ever' for F1 2012? | F1 News | Jan 2012 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/176150/1/vettel_to_be_stronger_than_ever_for_f1_2012.html)
Vettel to be 'stronger than ever' for F1 2012?

[52Paddy]

1) Vettel v Webber: Vettel challenges for a third title while Webber slides further away from the race win contenders.
2) Button v Hamilton: Both challenge for the title but Button to be more consistent on points.
3) Alonso v Massa: Alonso to stay as clear number 1 but I do expect an improvement in Massa's form.
4) Rosberg v Schumacher: Rosberg possibly to challenge for a race win this year if car is good. Schumacher might make podiums in same situation but I don't expect him to ahead of Rosberg regularly.
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean: Raikkonen to out-drive car. Grosjean to score regular points and show promises of quality speed.
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg: Di Resta building on last year's form. Hulkenberg to settle in during first few races and equal Di Resta by second half of year.
7) Kobayashi v Pérez: Equal matches.
8) Ricciardo v Vergne: No comment.
9) Maldonado v Senna: Equal matches.
10) Kovalainen v Trulli: Much like last year.
11) Glock v Pic: No comment.
12) de la Rosa v TBD: No comment.

[steveaki13]

1) Vettel v Webber = RB wont be as dominant this year (my hope), but Vettel will still out perform Webber.
2) Button v Hamilton = Hamilton to start well, but errors creep in again and a similar season to 2011.
3) Alonso v Massa = ALonso will again pummle Massa although the Brazilian will improve and get a podium at least.
4) Rosberg v Schumacher = Another even season, but Schumacher will make the most of the breaks and secure a few podiums.
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean = Raikkonen may struggle initiially, but will end the season ahead of Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg = Di Resta will make his previous season count and beat Nico.
7) Kobayashi v Pérez = Kobayashi will make errors and allow Perez to outperform him.
8) Ricciardo v Vergne = Hard to call but I think Ricciardo may just finish ahead. Could rely on one wet or crazy race and one gets a big haul of points.
9) Maldonado v Senna = I think these two will each beat each other on regular occasions, but I think Bruno will just edge it.
10) Kovalainen v Trulli = Same as the last 2 seasons.
11) Glock v Pic = I think Pic will challenge Glock more than Di Grassi & Ambrosio put together, but Glock will just finish ahead.
12) de la Rosa v ? = De La Rosa will start the season better but then ? will start out performing the old man.

[jens]

Hmm, I'd add my thoughts as well. :)

RBR: I don't expect a notable change here. Gap will be around what it was in 2011 in favour of Vettel. The gap in 09-10 was smaller, but the regulations from 2011 (esp tyres) seem to suit Vettel perfectly. In addition to this he has matured well and is more consistent than a few years ago.

McL: This is an interesting one. Tyres were the major game changer in 2011 and this is where Button decisively came out on top. As we know, we are still going to have fragile Pirelli tyres in 2012, so Button shall have a good chance. Hamilton can come out on top if he can finally have an ultra-consistent season, but based on his career it can be a big ask... We'll see.

FER: Most one-sided team-mate battle. In 2010 Massa complained that the tyres were hard to get up to temperature. His races were a bit better, but not enough to match Alonso. So for 2011 he got tyres that he wanted and had some pretty good qualifying throughout the season, but started falling backwards in races instead. So different problems each time and nothing has helped Massa to bring him closer to Alonso and don't see any change here. Maybe 07-08 Bridgestones would help, but that ain't happen...

MER: Schumacher had a bit of an awakening last season, gave Rosberg a run for his money and even beat him on many occasions. But his qualifying was still horrible and Mercedes being in no-mans-land in 4th helped him to avoid getting a big handicap for the race. If Mercedes starts mixing it more with other teams, Rosberg's Q advantage will be more significant. Another issue was that MB'11 was hard on tyres and particularly Rosberg suffered from it. Depends on car design philosophy, but somehow I expect the gap to increase in Nico's favour.

LOT: A bit like Rosberg-Schumacher 2010 or Villeneuve-Massa 2005 situation. A retired former champion comes back against a young charger. I don't expect Kimi's comeback season to be very smooth, even though it can be filled with moments of previous genius. Meanwhile Grosjean is a complete unknown. Somehow I expect Grosjean to be faster in qualis, but it is open, what to expect in race trim.

FOR: Too close to call. Seriously. I think it can be said that on the whole di Resta's rookie season (2011) left a stronger impression than Hülkenberg's (2010). But Hulk is now in a new environment and perhaps one he would thrive in. Both have already proved to be fast qualifiers, so it will come down to consistency in race trim.

SAU: Should be close as well. In 2011 Kobayashi scored more points, but Pérez showed an improved form in the second half of the season. On average Pérez seems a bit better in qualifying, while both can do well in races. Perhaps it will come down to who can adapt to the car better.

STR: Frankly this is extremely difficult to predict as well. The difference is that while Ricciardo raced and impressed people at HRT; nobody knows, what Vergne can do, and hence the Frenchman is a bit under the radar at the moment. Well, nobody except RBR/STR engineer staff, who seem to rate him very highly indeed...

WIL: Maldonado had good qualifyings and outraced Barrichello on several occasions too. He shall be at least reasonably decent. Senna had some good qualifying sessions too, but his racing left much to be desired in late '11. If he wants to have a chance against Maldonado, he needs to improve in that department. But perhaps Senna is the driver, who can get a good result/points in a wet race...

CAT: Kovalainen has established himself as the natural favourite for the season. If Trulli can perform like at his prime, it would be interesting, but at the moment there is no indication he can do that. Qualifying of 2011 was embarrassing.

MAR: Pic seems to be a driver in the same caliber as di Grassi/d'Ambrosio, so I expect more of the same with Glock beating his rookie team-mate.

[ioan]

Can I let you know in November?

:up:

[keysersoze]

Surprise of the year: Pic will be quicker than Glock by the mid-season.
Hamilton will assert himself over Button
Massa will be better, but he's still out of Ferrari after this season.
Kova drives Trulli into retirement, and Vitaly takes over Jarno's ride at some point.
Webber, still a fantastic driver, will lose another tenth or two to Vettel.
Senna and Pastor: a draw.
Grosjean over Kimi.
Force India will go backwards with two sophomores

[zako85]

Oh man, I can't wait until the 2012 season starts. As for teammate battles, can't wait to see the continuation of Button v Hamilton. Also Räikkönen v Grosjean, Maldonado v Senna, and Di Resta v Hülkenberg. The rest are kind of predictable (e.g. Vettel vs Webber) or just not very interesting to me (i.e. Rosberg v Schumacher)

[Koz]

1) Vettel v Webber - Conspiracy? :D
2) Button v Hamilton - Button should take this one because he seems to be coping better with the tyres. But through and through Hamilton is faster, if he can keep his head in the game he might just beat Button.
3) Alonso v Massa - Massa is done, Alonso is superior in every way.
4) Rosberg v Schumacher - It will be close, Mike has been doing better than '10 - he is getting used to F1 again, but his age will begin to show this year, they may be fairly even at the beginning but Mike will be much slower towards the end of the season.
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean - Kimi will be faster, much faster.
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg - A year out will make the difference.
7) Kobayashi v Pérez - Perez will out qualify Koba, he'll be more consistent overall. But Koba will have a few higher position finishes.
8) Ricciardo v Vergne - Ricci, because of experience. However, both careers will be ruined because neither have enough experience to be in F1.
9) Maldonado v Senna - Senna will dominate, but if the car is very bad they will be fairly close.
10) Kovalainen v Trulli - Hekki will dominate. Regardless of who his team mate is, he will destroy them. If Caterham can get a car on part with '11 Williams, he will get a top 10 finish. And he will prove that Flavio was right about him. Trulli will not complete the season.
11) Glock v Pic - Glock, experience talks.
12) de la Rosa v ??? - If it's a newbie, it might be close, but by the end of the season, luck notwithstanding, Perdo will be beaten. If anyone with experience comes in Pedro will be destroyed from the first lap of the season.


In addition you can make some general guesses about driver performances this year.
Raikkonen might pull out a few podiums if the car is as close to the front as it was at the beginning of '11, maybe even a win at Spa with some luck (Hamilton takes out Webber, SC - Kimi has an epic re-start and passes Alonso and Vettel while they are busy with each other). :D


Who is going to be the revelation of the season? Driver, who is forcing everyone to talk about him much more than ever before and take real notice.
Senna and Grosjean will give us a few surprises.


Alternatively, who is going to be the disappointment of the season? Specifically compared to expectations. As usual, underperformance would lead everyone to debate that "he isn't really as good as we thought"...
Torro Rosso boys. Both will fail big time, but we won't really be able to judge and will put it down to the cars. Same with Hulk.

[AussieV8]

My picks in bold


1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v ?

[The Black Knight]

1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v ?

I doubt very much that Button will be able to usurp Hamilton for a second season in a row, plus I feel that Hamilton will have grown as a result of last year and I think he will get himself back on track.

I've gone for Schumacher because there was a clear trend of improvement last year. This year I think he may, just may, end up ahead on points at the end of the season, but it will nonetheless be a close one.

The rest are pretty straight forward and obvious choices.

[F1boat]

Seb will beat Webber easily. Fernando will be number 1 driver in Ferrari. The intra-team battles in McLaren and Mercedes GP will be very close and Lotus is an enigma for me - I don't know is Kimi as fast as before and how much Romain has improved. The rest, I have to admit, are not that interesting to me, although I keep my fingers crossed for Bruno in a Williams.

[The Black Knight]

Narain Karthikeyan has been announced as HRT other driver, teammate to Pedro De La Rosa.

[F1boat]

This will be oldest line-up on the grid. I think that Pedro will beat Karthikeyan.

[jens]

This will be oldest line-up on the grid. I think that Pedro will beat Karthikeyan.

Agreed. :)

--

Oh, and one more thing. About the revelation and disappointment part, which I didn't answer in my earlier post.

Revelation?
Well, I think it may be worth looking into that very tight midfield group. Several drivers have a chance of making a serious impression in F1. If the Toro Rosso car is good, both Ricciardo and Vergne can make the F1 world take notice. At the moment there is little to talk about them as their F1 careers have barely started, but this is the year, when it can change. Also Hülkenberg has a point to prove. If Nico can put that - by his high standards - disappointing debut season of 2010 behind and show more of the stuff we witnessed in feeder categories, he would put himself into contention for seats in top teams.

Disappointment? Perhaps here we can look at the midfield too. There are many drivers with high expectations, so you could say someone is bound to lose out. Or are we going to have a surprise and one of Vettel, Button or Alonso will have a bad year?

[seppefan]

Button / Hamilton
Vergne / Ricciardo
di Resta / Hulkenberg
Rosberg / Schumacher
Grosjean/ Raikkonen


No "Other" option for those missed due to the riches of 2012 competition being as high. Senna/ Maldonado or Webber /Vettel albeit for different reasons, Massa etc are less cutting edge. These battles will still be very interesting. But, the above five battles will go to make a possible vintage season. And dictate the drivers own future.

Interested to know what people think about the inter team battles... and the end result.


That end result means thoughts as below.....

Does Lewis arrive at MB after a poor Shumi year, di Resta arrive at Mclaren, Vergne to Red B, Ferrari is Alonso and.. Bianchi, Massa, why do they keep getting this wrong, Alonso and ... I would go for the Hulk or Grosjean, Pity it is not Glock but four years too late. Sorry Kovi. So number two at Ferrari is hot...Lotus probably stay the same, Kimi and Grosjean. Perez for Ferarri, obvious but I have a bad feeling.

Others ? !!

[DamonHillFan]

Button v Hamilton should be good this year, Lewis will want to finish ahead of him for sure after last year, but Jenson was on top form during the races last season so may be hard to beat especially if McLaren have a great car.

[Zico]

1) Vettel v Webber
2) Button v Hamilton
3) Alonso v Massa
4) Rosberg v Schumacher
5) Räikkönen v Grosjean
6) Di Resta v Hülkenberg
7) Kobayashi v Pérez
8) Ricciardo v Vergne
9) Maldonado v Senna
10) Kovalainen v Trulli
11) Glock v Pic
12) de la Rosa v TBD

[N4D13]

I'm going to say Rosberg/Shoe, just not to say what everybody else is going to say. Even though it isn't given as much importance by the press as Button vs Hamilton, this could also be a great rivalry in 2012, and it's definitely worth keeping an eye on. ;)

[Tazio]

;-

[Tazio]

I think Massa is going to become Alonso's new test pilot sooner than later. I hope I'm wrong, but some one like Alonso takes a twitch car and makes it pointy. Dude just outs it on full sterring lock and with beter rubber, just puts it on rails Mark me!: Personally I think Fred and The Boss are going to tangle! :dozey:

[steveaki13]

Mclaren: I think there are a lot of interesting team battles this year. Probably the best will be Jenson v Lewis, as they are closely matched and both have a realistic chance of a title.

Red Bull: I think Webber v Vettel will again be one sided to Seb.

Ferrari: And Fernando will probably crush Felipe.

Mercedes: Schumacher and Rosberg will also be a good one. Not sure which way it will go, I fancy Nico will just edge it.

Lotus: Kimi should beat Roman despite his break

Force India: Di Resta I think will beat Hulkenberg thanks to a better start to the season.

Sauber: I am intrigued by this one, I think Kobayashi will be solid and occasionally produce a great drive, but I think Perez will outscore him.

Toro Rosso: Not sure on this one, but I fancy Vergne might suprise us and keep close to Ricciardo, not sure whole will win out through.

Williams: I think Williams will struggle again this year, but I think Bruno Senna will push Maldonado aside.

Caterham: I think Kovalainens experience of the team will mean he will be quite a way ahead of Petrov.

Virgin: I think Glock will do his usual solid job, while Pic might fall into a d'Amnrosio and Di Grassi type seaon

HRT: Well, De La Rosa will keep the Virgins in sight and beat Karthikeyan most races.

[jens]

Looking at my own pre-season comments I have to admit that Schumacher has a greater chance of beating Rosberg than I initially thought. This is based on car characteristics. Mercedes was supposed to work on race pace for this year, but it looks like W03 eats tyres quite a lot, which doesn't suit Rosberg at all. Nico would rather shine in a car like RB8, which enables to push harder in the race without a significant drop-off.

But perhaps all is not doom and gloom yet. Perhaps Mercedes' high degradation was track-specific and they'll be more consistent in Malaysia.

[F1boat]

I hope that Michael will come on top this year, for a change...

[52Paddy]

I hope that Michael will come on top this year, for a change...

If his current form continues then he has every chance of getting on the podium and, in the right circumstances, winning a race. I would love to see him bow out of his second F1 career with a glorious season, especially a win.

[Garry Walker]

If his current form continues then he has every chance of getting on the podium and, in the right circumstances, winning a race. I would love to see him bow out of his second F1 career with a glorious season, especially a win.
There are people who would probably suicide over that thought.

[52Paddy]

There are people who would probably suicide over that thought.

And what a shame that would be.

[airshifter]

There are people who would probably suicide over that thought.

Haters will hate, and nothing much will stop it.

I'd like to at least see MS get to the podium. A win would no doubt bring back his celebrations of days gone by on the podium.

[i_max2k2]

I'm little more optimistic then hoping for wins from schumi, Rosberg has cracked under pressure whenever he has been in good positions, if Mercs remain fast, I'd expect better results and more consistency from Schumi.

[The Black Knight]

I'm little more optimistic then hoping for wins from schumi, Rosberg has cracked under pressure whenever he has been in good positions, if Mercs remain fast, I'd expect better results and more consistency from Schumi.

Last weekend was the first weekend since his comeback that Schumacher seemed to have the pace on Rosberg, not only outqualifying him but also being quicker in the race. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think to say Rosberg cracked under pressure it a bit harsh. If mistakes like the one he did in qualifying continue to happen then we can say he's a bottler but it was a once off so hard to pass judgement on it, especially since he generally has the legs on Schuey in qualifying.

[F1boat]

Last weekend was the first weekend since his comeback that Schumacher seemed to have the pace on Rosberg, not only outqualifying him but also being quicker in the race. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think to say Rosberg cracked under pressure it a bit harsh. If mistakes like the one he did in qualifying continue to happen then we can say he's a bottler but it was a once off so hard to pass judgement on it, especially since he generally has the legs on Schuey in qualifying.

He cracks under pressure. He was faster that Michael at qualy until Q3, when it seemed that he can get the pole. He failed and Michael made a decent lap. In the past, when he is in the lead or close to it, he gets nervous and makes mistakes. Like China 2010, or Singapore 2009 (I am not sure about the year, I have to admit). Maybe, if he wins a race, he will be calmer, but this first win will come very hard. I think that it is likely that Michael will score a win before him.
That is, if any of them wins a race.

[jens]

---
Maybe, if he wins a race, he will be calmer, ---.

I think so too. Let's recall Sutil. In his first few seasons in F1 he tended to get into accidents just when he was on course for a points finish. At that time it was a very unique situation for a Force India driver, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, which created pressures. But once Sutil became a consistent midfielder, he got used to it and became a consistent point-scorer in 2010-11.

Also it is claimed that Button became much more confident after winning WDC. No he has no more pressures and can enjoy getting the best out of the car.

So I also think once Rosberg gets used to being a front-runner, he will have a more consistent run.

[52Paddy]

So I also think once Rosberg gets used to being a front-runner, he will have a more consistent run.

I agree, but I hope, for his sake, a win comes sooner rather than later. It's his fourth of fifth season in F1 now and may (or may not) be his last chance to avoid going down the "journeyman" route. That would be a shame.

[keysersoze]

Melbourne battles

McLaren: Button 1, Hamilton 0
LH edges Jenson on Saturday, but had nothing for Button off the start line, or for that matter, the rest of the race.

Reb Bull: Vettel 1, Webber 0
Webber gets the early qualifying edge, but Vettel showing he's not just a front-runner, and can battle his way up.

Ferrari: Alonso 1, Massa 0
Alonso proving he's worth every red cent. Massa gets a flyer of a start but his best lap was 1.6 slower than Alonso on that very lap. Very likely a chassis issue but the pundits are already warming up the bullpen.

Mercedes: Rosberg 1, Schumacher 0
Rosberg started to disappoint before his last lap troubles but he was a rocket at the start. Michael unable to capitalize on qualy pace.

Williams: Maldonado 1, Senna 0
Button aside, Pastor's was the drive of the race, and if he had managed to keep it together on the last lap, it would have been. Senna's William's debut similar to his uncle's--an early shunt.

Sauber: Perez 1, Kobayashi 0
Sergio makes up 10 places on the opening lap, which made his tire-saving talents truly pay off.

[jens]

Melbourne battles

Mercedes: Rosberg 1, Schumacher 0


Don't you consider this unfair? Schumacher was in front of Rosberg before retiring with gearbox problems.

[keysersoze]

Continuation

STR: Ricciardo 1, Vergne 0
Both were impressive and it might have gone to the Frenchman, who drove like a seasoned vet, if it had not been for the last lap. The bottom line is that the Aussie made it to Q3, got sent to the back after a first lap incident, and came back to be in the points, albeit aided by the SC period.

Lotus: Raikkonen 1, Grosjean 0
Romain was squarely beaten in that corner and should have known that discretion is the better part of valor. Besides that and a lackluster start, RG was having a dream weekend. Unfortunately, those two areas are high-visibility.

Caterham: Kovalainen 1, Petrov 0
Heike by 4 tenths in qualifying was the difference. It was hard to judge who was better in the race, as both were on different tire strategies, and each had their problems. Vitaly kept Massa behind him for several laps and, later in the race, kept the Brazilian in view.

Marussia: Glock 1, Pic 0
Timo by 7 tenths in qualifying, and managed to get in front of the Caterhams at the beginning of the race. Pic acquitted himself well, but both need more time in the late-arriving car.

[keysersoze]

Don't you consider this unfair? Schumacher was in front of Rosberg before retiring with gearbox problems.

It was close for sure, but didn't Nico pit from 4th or 5th with Michael behind him? I give Schumacher a lot of credit for the adjustments he's had to make (or wait for) and for outqualifying Rosberg, but Nico was in the points all day until the last lap tangle with Perez, and there was that blinder of a start.

[jens]

It was close for sure, but didn't Nico pit from 4th or 5th with Michael behind him?

Schumacher retired on lap 11 from P3. Rosberg hadn't made a pitstop by then.

[F1boat]

IMO Button, Vettel and Alonso scored big wins over their teammates in Melbourne, Raikkonen and M Schumacher got early advantage over their teammates. Maldonado also put himself in better position than Senna. In the rest of teams things seemed to be pretty even for me.

[steveaki13]

I think so too. Let's recall Sutil. In his first few seasons in F1 he tended to get into accidents just when he was on course for a points finish. At that time it was a very unique situation for a Force India driver, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, which created pressures. But once Sutil became a consistent midfielder, he got used to it and became a consistent point-scorer in 2010-11.

Also it is claimed that Button became much more confident after winning WDC. No he has no more pressures and can enjoy getting the best out of the car.

So I also think once Rosberg gets used to being a front-runner, he will have a more consistent run.

Agree

[keysersoze]

Schumacher retired on lap 11 from P3. Rosberg hadn't made a pitstop by then.

Ya know, jens, I thought about it some more, and I'm changing my mind. Schumacher 1, Rosberg 0. ;)

[52Paddy]

Ya know, jens, I thought about it some more, and I'm changing my mind. Schumacher 1, Rosberg 0. ;)

I would go for that too. Also, I think the Sauber drivers were evenly matched. Regardless of finishing positions (which were tight anyway), both showed true 'racer' form in Melbourne and as much ability as the other. Maybe Perez is more refined and Kobayashi more hasty but still equally brilliant drives from both, especially considering their lacklustre qualifying. Other than that, agree with your comments :up:

[jens]

Three races into the season. Perhaps the first overview can be made. We have some very close and exciting battles going on.

Hamilton v Button. Well, this is continually exciting and there is a lot at stake, as those two drivers seem to be main contenders for the WDC for now! Their roles seem a bit reversed so far in 2012. :p : By this I mean Hamilton is very consistent (triple 3rd) with Button getting better results, but one virtual DNF in the process too. But it is still hard to predict, how will it get played out. Last year at the same time Hamilton seemed the favourite, because he was faster in the early part of the season, but later the tables turned. But I have to say that the last two races haven’t taken place in particularly favourable conditions (cold) for Jenson, yet he has shown decent pace.

Webber v Vettel. So far Webber has found a marginal advantage, particularly in qualifying. I think it can be expected that sometime during the season Vettel adapts to the car properly and hence is still likely to come out on top. But it is closer (like in 09/10) than 2011 for sure.

Alonso v Massa. Not much to talk about here. Only question is whether this is going to be as thorough beating as Rosberg/Nakajima (2009) and R.Schumacher/Zanardi (1999) or Felipe can redeem himself a bit.

Pérez v Kobayashi. Still close. In terms of points Sergio got a bit of an advantage in Malaysia (where Kamui’s car had problems), but it looks like in terms of performance they are close and as long as Sauber is fast, it shall be exciting. One impression I have got is that Pérez can conserve his tyres to longer stints. Perhaps it will pay off.

Rosberg v Schumacher. I believe at this age Rosberg has a bit more raw speed in his pocket than Schumacher. And in conditions, where tyres held together, it showed. But let’s see, how does the Mercedes perform during the rest of the season and whether it plays to Schumi’s strengths.

Räikkönen v Grosjean. As China showed, there was little between them in race pace too. But based on Romain’s career so far I have to admit that he can be an erratic driver, even if managed to be consistent and dominant in his GP2 title season. So consistency might bring more points to Kimi in the end, even if speed-wise it is close.

Senna v Maldonado. I have to admit Senna has surprised me this year. I didn’t expect him to be that fast in race trim, but he has had two good races in a row. Let’s see, how can he keep it up.

Di Resta v Hülkenberg. So far di Resta has outraced Hülkenberg. Oz qualifying showed that if the stars align, Hülkenberg can find real speed, but consistency is still not there yet.

Vergne v Ricciardo. In qualis Vergne seems to struggle (compared to Ricciardo), but is more competitive in races and so far can’t say anything conclusive.

Kovalainen v Petrov. Hard to say, because Heikki seems to have hit trouble in every race so far. I think the Finn has a slight pace-advantage, but Petrov seems close. Closer than Trulli was.

Glock v Pic. You could replace Pic with di Grassi or d’Ambrosio and not notice any difference at all. Same story with Timo being in front.

De la Rosa v Karthikeyan. Battle of veterans, where – as expected – Pedro is a bit faster.

Let’s see, what does the rest of the season bring. :)

[steveaki13]

Three races into the season. Perhaps the first overview can be made. We have some very close and exciting battles going on.

Hamilton v Button. Well, this is continually exciting and there is a lot at stake, as those two drivers seem to be main contenders for the WDC for now! Their roles seem a bit reversed so far in 2012. :p : By this I mean Hamilton is very consistent (triple 3rd) with Button getting better results, but one virtual DNF in the process too. But it is still hard to predict, how will it get played out. Last year at the same time Hamilton seemed the favourite, because he was faster in the early part of the season, but later the tables turned. But I have to say that the last two races haven’t taken place in particularly favourable conditions (cold) for Jenson, yet he has shown decent pace.

Webber v Vettel. So far Webber has found a marginal advantage, particularly in qualifying. I think it can be expected that sometime during the season Vettel adapts to the car properly and hence is still likely to come out on top. But it is closer (like in 09/10) than 2011 for sure.

Alonso v Massa. Not much to talk about here. Only question is whether this is going to be as thorough beating as Rosberg/Nakajima (2009) and R.Schumacher/Zanardi (1999) or Felipe can redeem himself a bit.

Pérez v Kobayashi. Still close. In terms of points Sergio got a bit of an advantage in Malaysia (where Kamui’s car had problems), but it looks like in terms of performance they are close and as long as Sauber is fast, it shall be exciting. One impression I have got is that Pérez can conserve his tyres to longer stints. Perhaps it will pay off.

Rosberg v Schumacher. I believe at this age Rosberg has a bit more raw speed in his pocket than Schumacher. And in conditions, where tyres held together, it showed. But let’s see, how does the Mercedes perform during the rest of the season and whether it plays to Schumi’s strengths.

Räikkönen v Grosjean. As China showed, there was little between them in race pace too. But based on Romain’s career so far I have to admit that he can be an erratic driver, even if managed to be consistent and dominant in his GP2 title season. So consistency might bring more points to Kimi in the end, even if speed-wise it is close.

Senna v Maldonado. I have to admit Senna has surprised me this year. I didn’t expect him to be that fast in race trim, but he has had two good races in a row. Let’s see, how can he keep it up.

Di Resta v Hülkenberg. So far di Resta has outraced Hülkenberg. Oz qualifying showed that if the stars align, Hülkenberg can find real speed, but consistency is still not there yet.

Vergne v Ricciardo. In qualis Vergne seems to struggle (compared to Ricciardo), but is more competitive in races and so far can’t say anything conclusive.

Kovalainen v Petrov. Hard to say, because Heikki seems to have hit trouble in every race so far. I think the Finn has a slight pace-advantage, but Petrov seems close. Closer than Trulli was.

Glock v Pic. You could replace Pic with di Grassi or d’Ambrosio and not notice any difference at all. Same story with Timo being in front.

De la Rosa v Karthikeyan. Battle of veterans, where – as expected – Pedro is a bit faster.

Let’s see, what does the rest of the season bring. :)


Great observations Jens.

[jens]

Three more races gone and another overview. It has to be said that situations in several teams have changed during the past few races. It only adds to the intrigue of what is going to happen next as the competition can change a lot in F1 very quickly!

Vettel v Webber. This one looks very much like 2010 now. Both were tied on points in 2010 after six races and are now again! Difference is that Vettel isn’t suffering from reliability issues like he did in 2010. Surprisingly Webber is owning Vettel in qualifying (more than ever before, it has to be said!), the Australian should have outqualified the German in Spain too, but he didn’t go out in Q2. I remember, when Webber had a good string of form in 2010 (3 poles in a row in the second quarter of the season). Let’s see, how long can he manage it this time and more crucially, when will Vettel overcome his qualifying woes. The Vettel of 2011 has appeared only once this season - when he took pole in the dying minutes of Bahrain qualifying, which was his copyright performance of 2011. He needs to start replicating this in less than very hot conditions as well.

Hamilton v Button. Meantime the game has changed here. From virtual „tie” Hamilton has gained a clear advantage. It remains to be seen, how quickly can Button overcome his troubles (especially qualifying) and it could still be interesting if Button can soon return to what he is capable of doing best – good consistent driving with lots of points.

Alonso v Massa. The Brazilian has slightly improved and has been capable of following Alonso in a couple of races. Even though the ‚battle’ has been as well as won by Alonso already, it remains to be seen if the Brazilian can at least outrace the Spaniard on occasion.

Räikkönen v Grosjean. This is where the same story carries on. In qualifying trim there is little to choose between them, but in race trim the more experienced Finn has been slightly more impressive and crucially reliable.

Rosberg v Schumacher. Considering the unluck Schumi has been suffering, it may seem unfair to draw a significant comparison here. Points-wise Rosberg has as well as won this battle, but speed-wise he still has to take Schumi into account every weekend.

Maldonado v Senna. Senna had a good start into the season, but his performance has dropped since then with Maldonado gaining upper hand again. The Brazilian can perform well from time to time, but despite his mistakes the Venezuelan seems more ‚electric’ and more capable of ultimate peak performances.

Pérez v Kobayashi. It is close in points and I think this reflects their general performance compared to each other as well. Sadly the run of results has been quite inconsistent for the team.

Di Resta v Hülkenberg. I get the impression Hülkenberg has improved in the last few races, but di Resta still has a slight advantage over the German returnee.

Vergne v Ricciardo. The main conclusion I can make of this very inexperienced duo so far: Ricciardo seems better over a single lap, Vergne seems better in racing. Let’s see, how will they manage to cement these reputations during the rest of the season.

Kovalainen v Petrov. Now have to say that in the grand scheme of things there is no difference whether it is Petrov or Trulli in the car. Kovalainen still comes out on top.

Glock v Pic and de la Rosa v Karthikeyan. Don’t think anything new can be recorded here either. Advantage to Glock and de la Rosa.

:)

[Tazio]

A very good analysis Jens. As for:
[quote="Jens"]Alonso v Massa. The Brazilian has slightly improved and has been capable of following Alonso in a couple of races. Even though the &#8218]
I most definitely agree with this part. Massa has dug himself a hole so deep that the only way he will be able to beat Alonso is if he can get a car between himself and Fred. With the situation in point disparity at this stage of the WDC, team orders are a no brainer for Ferrari.
It's easy to argue that they always have been in place since Alonso joined the team, but I won't get into an argument about water under the bridge. The thing about Felipe is I actually believe he has more raw speed than any driver with the possible exception of Lewis and Kimi. Massa has had slow starts in the past and righted the ship. I now fully expect him to find his form again. I also believe that we can put the idea of lingering effects of his injury to bed. JMHO :)

[Bagwan]

A very good analysis Jens. As for:

I most definitely agree with this part. Massa has dug himself a hole so deep that the only way he will be able to beat Alonso is if he can get a car between himself and Fred. With the situation in point disparity at this stage of the WDC, team orders are a no brainer for Ferrari.
It's easy to argue that they always have been in place since Alonso joined the team, but I won't get into an argument about water under the bridge. The thing about Felipe is I actually believe he has more raw speed than any driver with the possible exception of Lewis and Kimi. Massa has had slow starts in the past and righted the ship. I now fully expect him to find his form again. I also believe that we can put the idea of lingering effects of his injury to bed. JMHO :)

Putting aside completely his injury , the most fragile part of Felipe baby has always been his head .
I met him in '04 , at a winey/cheesy thing , and he was more nervous about the crowd than the crowd was about meeting him .
Timo Glock was there , too , and happy to smile with fans , but Felipe was vibrating too nervously to be kept in camera frame .

When he's focussed , he's fast , but seems like it's been a while since he's been focussed on the task at hand .

You know what he really needs ?
He needs to talk some good smack , about Sergio , or Rubens , or anyone else nominated in the musical chair rumour lottery around his seat , really , so he can generate some fire .

[Tazio]

Putting aside completely his injury , the most fragile part of Felipe baby has always been his head .
I met him in '04 , at a winey/cheesy thing , and he was more nervous about the crowd than the crowd was about meeting him .
Timo Glock was there , too , and happy to smile with fans , but Felipe was vibrating too nervously to be kept in camera frame .

When he's focussed , he's fast , but seems like it's been a while since he's been focussed on the task at hand .

You know what he really needs ?
He needs to talk some good smack , about Sergio , or Rubens , or anyone else nominated in the musical chair rumour lottery around his seat , really , so he can generate some fire .The only thing I have to say about this Bags is their are a lot of great athletes that are horified about public speaking, yet become a beast during competition. It is very common, and I think Felipe is one of them when he gets behind the wheel. I've never heard Kimi talk smack, he just gets on with it. It seems that focus is a real problem for him, and you hit that one squarely on the head IMO.

[Tazio]

:crazy:

[Bagwan]

The only thing I have to say about this Bags is their are a lot of great athletes that are horified about public speaking, yet become a beast during competition. It is very common, and I think Felipe is one of them when he gets behind the wheel. I've never heard Kimi talk smack, he just gets on with it. It seems that focus is a real problem for him, and you hit that one squarely on the head IMO.

He just thinks too much , and so you can get in his head .

And , you can class Kimi at the other end of the self-confidence scale .

Smedley needs to fire his driver up , and a smug retort to a good smack-down on one of these punks might boil that Latin blood a little and make him forget that he was an almost champion .
It looks like he thinks that was his only chance , but he needs to remember that , Alonso or no Alonso , he still drives a red car .

[Tazio]

He just thinks too much , and so you can get in his head. Speculation my good man. You can't know that unless you have stepped insde his skin.


And , you can class Kimi at the other end of the self-confidence scale.
It didn't appear that way when they both drove for Ferrari


a smug retort to a good smack-down on one of these punks might boil that Latin blood a little and make him forget that he was an almost champion .
I think this is not an issue at all. If his blood isn't pumping from the time the lights go out until the checkered flag is waved he would never have gotten as far as he has, Latin or otherwise.
However I respect your opinion :)

[jens]

So time to make some conclusions in this thread as well.

Vettel v Webber: Mark could keep up with Seb for half a year this time, but was left very clearly behind in the end. To be frank, Webber had quite a fair amount of unluck at the second half of the season too. Only 6th in the final standings, while Vettel is 1st – position-wise almost as far back as Kovalainen was in 2008 to the WDC, but also shows, how close it was at the front of the field!

Alonso v Massa: in contrast to the RBR team battle Massa really got his act together for the second half of the season and since Belgium collected almost as many points as Alonso. I don’t know, why haven’t we seen this kind of Felipe for almost three years, but it would be so much better for F1 if we could keep racing like that for the whole of 2013.

Hamilton v Button: looking at their at times rather contrasting performances, it is quite incredible that in the end the gap is only 2 points! But it is fair to say that Hamilton suffered significantly more unluck this year. As has been the story of Jenson’s career – even if he doesn’t shine, he still somehow manages to collect a decent amount of points together.

Räikkönen v Grosjean: shame about Grosjean’s lack of racecraft, because this is really what put him that far behind Räikkönen in the points, while in terms of outright speed there was little between them. One can only hope that Romain becomes more consistent in 2013 and can actually challenge Kimi properly then. In any case a great comeback season by Kimi - I felt in the second half of the season he managed to get properly back in the groove, which is where the points gap between him and Romain increased to a really big margin.

Rosberg v Schumacher: like the McLaren team battle, points skew the picture of their performance somewhat. Overall there was little between them, with even a slight argument in favour of Michael. A couple of weekends aside, Nico has been sort of underwhelming since the introduction of Pirelli tyres. And this year he wasn’t particularly impressive in qualifying either, which used to be his forte.

Pérez v Kobayashi: I still believe Sergio has slightly more potential of the two, but he really turned into a Grosjean-Maldonado-type erratic driver in the last third of the season, having a collision in almost every race. As a result Kamui managed to collect almost as many points as the Mexican in the end. But their fates for the future are rather contrasting – one guy to McLaren, another one out of F1. Sort of like Heidfeld was left out of F1 after 2009 despite matching highly-rated Kubica.

Hülkenberg v di Resta: Di Resta started out stronger, but as the season developed, Hulk started emerging in front more and more clearly. The Brazilian race was like an indication of how impressive Hulk can really be if he is fully in the comfort zone in the car. Hopefully we will see much more of that in the future.

Maldonado v Senna: points gap is much smaller than the outright pace difference of the two indicated. But Maldonado showed some real speed – shame he threw so many points away. Senna – well, I have to say that I have hardly seen a driver struggling so badly in a basically really good car. In a car, which on many occasions was fighting in top6, he could barely make it past Q1 and at best could get a point or two in the race – even those through attrition.

Vergne v Ricciardo: even though points ended in favour of Vergne, I feel Ricciardo was slightly more impressive... and Daniel became a strong racer at the end of the season too. Though Jean-Eric managed to improve his qualifying, he was still behind Daniel more often than not.

Kovalainen v Petrov: qualifying in favour of Kovalainen. In the race there was little between them.

Glock v Pic: I think over a full season Glock was perhaps slightly better, but the gap is really small. And perhaps Pic was slightly closer to Timo than di Grassi and d’Ambrosio had previously been.

de la Rosa v Karthikeyan. The Spaniard came out on top, but Narain wasn’t too far behind on several occasions.

[AndyL]

Interesting analysis Jens. It seems we've had quite a chaotic and eventful season, and in several of those battles you can see an ability to stay out of trouble has been of particular value this year.

[AndyL]

I would say that is more down to luck than a driver having 'ability' in those scenarios. Unfortunately drivers can't predict what will happen in a race so they rely on fortune and misfortune of others mostly. That's racing.

Was it Gary Player who said "the more I play this game, the luckier I seem to get"?

I reckon Nick Heidfeld would have been a good driver to have this season ;)

[AndyL]

Yeah quick Nick was pretty unlucky wasn't he?

Actually I was thinking he had a great ability to stay out of trouble, with his record number of consecutive finishes!

[keysersoze]

Pretty accurate IMO Jens

[steveaki13]

I always really liked Heidfeld, I thought he was a decent guy and was a good points driver. I always wondered where that consistancy would have gotten him in a top car. Something along the lines of Jenson I suppose

[Firstgear]

Here's some numbers, based on their final points standings:

First by number of places ahead or behind (-) their teammate:

Vettel 5
Alonso 5
Raikkonen 5
Rosberg 4
Hulkenberg 3
Petrov 3
Perez 2
Hamilton 1
Maldonado 1
Vergne 1
Glock 1
Karthikeyan 1
Button -1
Senna -1
Ricciardo -1
Pic -1
de la Rosa -1
Kobayashi -2
di Resta -3
Kovalainen -3
Schumacher -4
Webber -5
Massa -5
Grosjean -5

Secondly, percentage of points relative to their teammate:

Alonso 228
Raikkonen 216
Rosberg 190
Vergne 160
Vettel 157
Maldonado 145
Hulkenberg 137
Perez 110
Hamilton 101
Button 99
Kobayashi 91
di Resta 73
Senna 69
Webber 64
Ricciardo 63
Schumacher 53
Grosjean 46
Massa 44

[rjbetty]

TEAM MATE COMPARISONS (from rjbetty's point of view)

RED BULL: Well I suppose it's Bieber, though it helps having your number one Beliebers Horner and Marko running the team.
FERRARI: Massa. Ok I'm not being at all serious tonight
McLAREN: James Allen's blog was interesting. But it's clear to see Lewis totally ran rings around Button this year. Deserved much more than a 2pt lead at the end.
MERCEDES: This one's trickier, but I gotta go for Michael. Apart from the end of the season, where he seemed to finally have had enough, with the age getting to him, Michael was the more impressive driver, and the final points standings between them are the most unrepresentative I've seen for a long time.
LOTUS: A tough one! But once Kimi got in his stride, and with Grosjean going off the rails in the second half, it's a marginal victory for Kimi, who scored over twice as much points in the end.
SAUBER: Perez, easy.
FORCE INDIA: The most interesting and difficult to predict before the season, in the end Hulkenberg easily took it, showing the most potential and scoring the most points.
WILLIAMS: My gosh, didn't Maldonado just totally wipe the floor with Bruno Senna, who not even once outqualified Pastor on merit?!!
CATERHAM: Kovalainen
HRT: de la Rosa
MARUSSIA: Glock, but a great effort from Pic, who also made few errors. Very impressive!

[zako85]

CATERHAM: Kovalainen I would like to respectfully disagree. Kovalainen has been in the sport for six years. Petrov for three years. 2012 was Kovalalien's third year with the team, and likely the car was built to his liking. Petrov joined Caterham just days before testing started. In the first half of year, Petrov lost out some to Kovalainen in qualification, but was just as fast in the race. Towards the end of year Petrov was equal or better in qualification. Out of 18 races where both Caterham drivers started and where at least one of them finished, Petrov was ahead in 10 races. Petrov finishied ahead in WDC, and his 11th place finish in Brazil also put Caterham in 10th place in WCC. Even before Brazil, Petrov was higher in WDC. Petrov brings sponsors. Kovalainen is paid a salary. It's logical that Kovalainen lost his seat.

I would stop short of saying that Petrov clearly dominated. I think both Caterham drivers were roughly equal. If Button didn't ram Kovalainen's Caterham in Monaco, Kovalainen could have finished 11th or maybe 10th in that race. But Petrov is looking better considering he has less experience with the team as well as F1 overall.

[keysersoze]

I would like to respectfully disagree. Kovalainen has been in the sport for six years. Petrov for three years. 2012 was Kovalalien's third year with the team, and likely the car was built to his liking. Petrov joined Caterham just days before testing started. In the first half of year, Petrov lost out some to Kovalainen in qualification, but was just as fast in the race. Towards the end of year Petrov was equal or better in qualification. Out of 18 races where both Caterham drivers started and where at least one of them finished, Petrov was ahead in 10 races. Petrov finishied ahead in WDC, and his 11th place finish in Brazil also put Caterham in 10th place in WCC. Even before Brazil, Petrov was higher in WDC. Petrov brings sponsors. Kovalainen is paid a salary. It's logical that Kovalainen lost his seat.

I would stop short of saying that Petrov clearly dominated. I think both Caterham drivers were roughly equal. If Button didn't ram Kovalainen's Caterham in Monaco, Kovalainen could have finished 11th or maybe 10th in that race. But Petrov is looking better considering he has less experience with the team as well as F1 overall.

I'm a fan of both Petrov and Pic (poor me) so I followed the Caterham and Marussia intra-team battles closely. The qualifying results favor Kovalainen, 12-8. Heike was also a demon at the start and seems to have that sorted out better than the Russian. But, as you pointed out, Vitaly somehow found an edge. He seemed to be marginally quicker throughout a tire stint. Petrov's truly throws Jarno's performance against HK into sharp relief.

After getting his butt handed to him by Kubica during the first half of 2010, Vitaly came on, and was MUCH closer to Robert, at times outpacing him. In 2011, he essentially sent Heidfeld into retirement. In 2012, pitted against an on-form Kovalainen, who had been on the short list to move to either McLaren or Ferrari, Vitaly's stock seems to have risen, though the game of musical chairs for 2013 may not go in his favor.

I hope Caterham decides to retain him. Then, my two favorite drivers will be on the same team. :eek:

[rjbetty]

These are great Vitaly points guys - maybe I could change this nomination. I've always rated Petrov, especially last year, where he beat Heidfeld and Senna, and scored that podium. Basically he exceeded general expectations very well last year. This year he has done the same; it hasn't gone un-noticed how he has mostly been equal and probably overall better in the races! I should have given Vitaly more credit actually, especially since unlike Senna, I don't think he ever did ANY karting at all!! He only had a few seasons at all in cars before F1, so to actually be about +1.0sec off in 2010, about +0.7sec off in 20101and probably about +0.5sec off in qualifying this year (and better in the races probably) is actually really good.

It's always interesting to dig below the surface and be able to see how well some drivers are really doing, yet on the surface they are maligned and unrecognised. It will be extremely harsh if Petrov finds himself out of F1 after all this. I hope he gets the second Marussia seat. I don't care what nationality Max Chilton is; I only want him to get the Marussia seat if he is actually really talented (more Pic than di Grassi). But Petrov's experience and good reeeeace peeeace [David Coulthard's rendering of "race pace" which I just delight in hearing :) ] could prove to be Vitaly, er I mean vital, in securing a precious point for Marussia; especially with Caterham likely to take a step back, having decided to use an updated version of their un-stellar 2012 car next year and a lesser driver line-up to boot, and with HRT seemingly out of the game altogether...

[keysersoze]

We shall see rjbetty. Something strange seems to be afoot at Caterham. Giedo Van der Garde, who apparently brings a fair amount of cash and hopes to join the team, stated that he expected an announcement this week, but then mentioned that the team told him they have bumped the decision to an undisclosed later date. The speculation is that the infusion of cash brought on by Petrov's result in Brazil has complicated matters for the team. They may end of keeping either Vitaly or Heike. If they decide to draft Giedo to drive, he will rejoin his Barwa Addax teammate from 2011, Charles Pic. I think the Frenchman was marginally quicker that season. Still, two drivers with a grand total of one F1 year of experience does not sound particularly inspiring for the team.

As for Max Chilton, he had done very little in GP2 for a year and a half, then he came on strong. He's still quite young and could have the goods to make it. Of course, if he never gets past driving for a team like Marussia, we will never know.