The potential of manufacturers at this point?

[A.F.F.]

I guess it's finally fair to say that we won't be seeing Saab in WRC ;)

But does folks here know how different manufacturers or groups are doing financially these days?? Back in the late 80's and throughout the 90's we had a strong representation japanese manufacturers. Now we have none. And how about the newer brands? I gues VAG and PSA are doing pretty well in the market but that's all I know.

It would be interesting to know more and speculate which manufacturers have at least the potential to join in WRC. And if there's a thread already, just merge this :)

[N.O.T]

the only true potential manufacturer is subaru i think....

and of course FIAT which enters the WRC "next year" for the last 20 years....

[AndyRAC]

Good question AFF!!
As you say, lots of Manufacturers are part of a 'group', i;e VW Group, which has VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat, Bugatti, Lamborghini, et al
Nissan-Renault are another.
It's sad that none of the Japanese are involved or are showing much interest. In fact they seem to be committed to the new WEC. Nissan, Honda, Toyota all have/ will have programmes running. As a Sportscar fan, this is great news, but as a WRC fan, it's not good news - these Manufacturers would be a huge plus to the WRC.
I honestly don't know who else could join - Kia?? Hyundai??
I would love to see FIAT, GMEurope and a Japanese Manufacturer all join - but that is not going to happen. Fiat/GM are still 'in the soup' financially.

[Barreis]

WRC with promotion must be very stable and strong. Also economic climate is still very bad. Sport needs more manufacturers.

[DonJippo]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an Asian manufacturer joining WRC in few years time, but let's hope current one's will still be there.

[bluuford]

I think that with some rounds in Asia in the future, we might see some Asian manufacturer in nearfuture. As we see Great Wall in the Dakar as the only official manufacturer right now. And TV is very important indeed. They said that their Mini Dakar car costs around 900 000 EUR and how many Minis can you see on the startline... that number 5! And there is no full manufacturer support behind those teams.
As for European manufacturers, I think that Reanult-Nissan-Dacia-Lada group might be the possibility.

Edit: Exatly on the same minute we are posting on Asian manufacturers :-)

[tfp]

I guess the asian manufacturers may want to stay in APRC ;) Although they would be welcomed into WRC with open arms nonetheless!

It would be nice to see Subaru back (Especially for me, seeing as though I own one :D ) and I guess at least they havent gone down the "green" hippy route that Mistubishi have!

[Plan9]

For me I think any future manufacturer participation will be based on the calendar. If the owners of WRC want to include the world outside the Eurozone they need to have at least 16 events. Including countries in the emerging new world. This would be necessary for companies like KIA/Hyundai to enter their Rio as they would want expose outside Europe; although that zone is important to them.

Interestingly before Prodrive chose the mini, I read a AutoCar rumor that they had also considered Range Rover.

[N.O.T]

For me I think any future manufacturer participation will be based on the calendar. If the owners of WRC want to include the world outside the Eurozone they need to have at least 16 events. Including countries in the emerging new world. This would be necessary for companies like KIA/Hyundai to enter their Rio as they would want expose outside Europe; although that zone is important to them.

Interestingly before Prodrive chose the mini, I read a AutoCar rumor that they had also considered Range Rover.

why are you doing this to yourself ??

If you are too young then ok it is nice that you are involved with the sport...

but otherwise your assumptions are just random things without any thought behind it...

In the past we had mitsubishi and subaru and toyota involved and the calendar was pretty much Europe based...

where did you hear the range rover rumour ?? try and ignore the voices in your head....

[MrJan]

I guess the asian manufacturers may want to stay in APRC ;)

Why? Are you saying that they would prefer to only promote themselves in Asia/Aus rather than the whole world?

Of course the main factors in attracting more manufacturers is getting the sport at a level where it is properly popular again. If the viewers aren't there then it's not worth the investment.

[tfp]

Why? Are you saying that they would prefer to only promote themselves in Asia/Aus rather than the whole world?

Of course the main factors in attracting more manufacturers is getting the sport at a level where it is properly popular again. If the viewers aren't there then it's not worth the investment.

Pretty much for now, I wonder how much popularity the asian manufacturers would gain from entering the WRC? Of course more manufacturers is a good thing, but the manufacturers have to feather their own nests first! ;)

[sollitt]

If the owners of WRC want to include the world outside the Eurozone they need to have at least 16 events. Including countries in the emerging new world. There will never be any benefit in running events for the sake of running events. Quality will always win over quantity. There is no place for half arsed poorly conceived events in out of the way places.

If you want to attract manufacturers (or any corporate involvement) you require robust and stable rules and organisation, a strong marketing and media profile and a selection of quality events, each with an individual style & character that adds both to the adventure and the marketability.
One such event each month is ample.

Of the Japanese manufacturers I would think Toyota would remain the most likely to return to WRC however I believe even that prospect is an extremely long shot.
Who knows what the Koreans might do? They wouldn't know themselves day in/day out.

In my view the FIA blew a golden opportunity by not making S2000 the WRC formula two years ago.

[focus206]

There will never be any benefit in running events for the sake of running events. Quality will always win over quantity. There is no place for half arsed poorly conceived events in out of the way places.


Totally agree :up:

[AndyRAC]

Personally, I think 16 events is far too many and would be extremely costly, and that is the main problem with the current sport. The costs outweight the benefits.

Twelve high quality, well promoted, and differently challenging events is what the WRC needs.

[Plan9]

Interesting comments. Of course the economic climate, marketing, rules for the calendar have to be considered. I would have thought that including events like Ypres and Circuit of Ireland would be a no brainer to organizers in these circumstances. Wouldn't it also be beneficial to have an event in Russia and maybe China as well, at least the domestic Chinese car market is growing in double digits per year.

[A.F.F.]

There are succesfull marketing stories in WRC like Subaru Impreza, Peugeot 205 and 206, Mitsubishi Lancer evo, Toyota Corolla etc... Surely the worldwide promotion do them good but only if the concept is solid and right. Meaning what folks here have already said. The rules of WRC should be clear and NOT chamging every second year. There should be visibility and lots of it but not based on WRC rounds.

I don't know about you guys but I surely changed my opinions to positive for instance of Subaru when I saw it succeeding in rallying on every possible terrain... as well as Skoda.

[grugsticles]

I would think Hyundai is a fair chance to rejoin.
From what ive heard (I have not sighted any actual factual information) Hyundai are one of, if not the, fastest growing car manufactures in the world.
I would think that they have moved away from the stigma of being a totally cheap-and-cheerful manufacturer, and now make some very decent cars. For example, the i30 is a good piece of kit.
Finance aside, it would be the perfect time for them to enter world motor sport.

Having said that, Im a Subaru fan and Im hangin out for a sniff that they might be coming back to the WRC where they belong.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I think the only real barrier to entry is Sebastien Loeb. Manufacturers enter the sport to increase their profile, and success is the surest way to do that. But Loeb has dominated the championship for the past eight years with Citroen. Once somebody proves that he can be beaten, I think a lot more manufacturers will be interested in the WRC again.

[MikeD]

Personally, I think 16 events is far too many and would be extremely costly, and that is the main problem with the current sport. The costs outweight the benefits.

I don't think 16 rallies would be too many. I think the problem lies with the many rallies that has no relevance to the Manufacturers. Many of the potential manufacturers are putting preassure on FIA to change the calendars for F1, WTCC, WEC and WRC to make it suit their sales markets.

WTCC has added China, USA and Argentina to the calendar because it's relevant for the Manufacturers in that Championship.

F1 will lose both Barcelona and Hungary this year or next and then there will only be 5 Europeans rounds left in F1. Spa and Paul Ricard will switch being the French GP (eventhough Spa is in Belgium)

I personally think that WRC has the worst calendar in terms of interest for manufacturers. They have no or very little interst in promoting their brands in Greece, Portugal, Finland, Australia, New Zealand and Jordan. Either these countries are too small in population and/or hit by ressescion, but the problem is that the WRC is too focused on it's historic events because the fans are in those countries. Unfortunately is the same countries where sponsors are harder and harder to find and with a decline in car sales.

I think WRC has too add Brazil, Russia, China and USA to its calendar to make it interesting to the manufacturers, otherwise we wont see any new manufacturers in the sport.

[Sulland]

A simple cheapish rallycar came i S2000, and manufacturers and buyers signed up.

R4T will make this happen again.
So, kill off todays WRCar that is to hard and to expensive for privat teams to buy and manage.


Make R4T top dog, and the rallyworld will blossom !


The big conglomerats in the manufacturers world will keep buying eachother, that will not change. If the WRCar is simpler and less expensive, and the manufacturersmchampionship is toned down, they might allow more than one of theirs to participate.

[bluuford]

I don't think 16 rallies would be too many. I think the problem lies with the many rallies that has no relevance to the Manufacturers. Many of the potential manufacturers are putting preassure on FIA to change the calendars for F1, WTCC, WEC and WRC to make it suit their sales markets.
I personally think that WRC has the worst calendar in terms of interest for manufacturers. They have no or very little interst in promoting their brands in Greece, Portugal, Finland, Australia, New Zealand and Jordan. Either these countries are too small in population and/or hit by ressescion, but the problem is that the WRC is too focused on it's historic events because the fans are in those countries. Unfortunately is the same countries where sponsors are harder and harder to find and with a decline in car sales.

I think WRC has too add Brazil, Russia, China and USA to its calendar to make it interesting to the manufacturers, otherwise we wont see any new manufacturers in the sport.

I am mostly agree with you but I would delete Australia from your list for sure. It is among top 17 countries in the world if you take GDP. It is also one of the fastest growing economies and countries. Current population is already around 22 millions.
f you take current rallies and GDP then you can see the following list. Position in World GDP ranking list is in the bracets:
Germany (5)
GB (7)
France (9)
Italy (10)
Mexico (11)
Spain (13)
Australia (17)
Argentina (23)
Sweden (32)
Greece (38)
Norway (46) Because they are together with Sweden in WRC
Portugal (49)
Finland (55)
New-Zealand (62)

If you summarize Swedish and Norwegian GDP, then you get position 23, just before Argentina.

If you take those which have been left out in recent years you get:

Japan (3)
Turkey (16)
Poland (20)
Ireland (56)
Bulgaria (71)
Kenya (82)
Jordan (102)
Cyprus (117)
One thing is to add country to the rallies list. The other thing is to market it on that country. How many spectators did you see in Japan and Turkey? Or how many did you see in NORF and Poland?

[MikeD]

I am mostly agree with you but I would delete Australia from your list for sure. It is among top 17 countries in the world if you take GDP. It is also one of the fastest growing economies and countries. Current population is already around 22 millions.

First of all, thanks for the long and well documented answer :)

If we take Australia first, then 22 millions is not that many when you have a growing economy of 200 million in Brazil, 100 million in Russia and 1.6 billion in China. Second of all, Australia has these renamed brands like Holden etc. and I don't think Citroën sell any cars in that country. I don't know about Ford or MINI but maybe some can share some info on that. That combined with it being a really expensive rally in terms of transport should be reason for some consideration if that should be on the calendar.


f you take current rallies and GDP then you can see the following list. Position in World GDP ranking list is in the bracets:
Germany (5)
GB (7)
France (9)
Italy (10)
Mexico (11)
Spain (13)
Australia (17)
Argentina (23)
Sweden (32)
Greece (38)
Norway (46) Because they are together with Sweden in WRC
Portugal (49)
Finland (55)
New-Zealand (62)

If you summarize Swedish and Norwegian GDP, then you get position 23, just before Argentina.

If you take those which have been left out in recent years you get:

Japan (3)
Turkey (16)
Poland (20)
Ireland (56)
Bulgaria (71)
Kenya (82)
Jordan (102)
Cyprus (117)
One thing is to add country to the rallies list. The other thing is to market it on that country. How many spectators did you see in Japan and Turkey? Or how many did you see in NORF and Poland?

Great info. - thanks. That being said then the manufacturers aren't asking for countries with high GDP, they are asking to get exposure in Emerging Markets and in my opinion that has to come at the expense of the traditional Western-world where especially Europe is facing the longest and hardest economic crisis since WW2.

Regarding Japan, then CNBC showed a graph over the amount of diapers sold to newborn children and to old people. In 2011 it was the first time that more diapers were sold to old people than to babies.

I don't know if anybody has noticed, but China's population (even with a 'one-child per family policy') has grown with 400 billion people over the last 10 years ... that's actually more than the entire population of Europe.

All in all, what I don't get is that the manufacturers get it more or less their way in F1 and WTCC whereas they have no influence in the WRC. Unless that changes then no new manufacturers will come along.

[Tomi]

All in all, what I don't get is that the manufacturers get it more or less their way in F1 and WTCC whereas they have no influence in the WRC. Unless that changes then no new manufacturers will come along.

Off course the manufacturers have their points listened in rally too, but I guess everyone understand that it is much more complicated to arrange a rally than a closed circut race, also its common knowledge that they are looking for a good partner to arrange a WRC event in China, India and Africa.

[Jajá]

This is my first post, so apologies if I say anything dumb.

Brazil would be #6 in that list and is the largest market worldwide for VW (a full manufacturer next year - I hope so!). I hear from the contacts I have in rally that Manufacturers are looking for WRC in Brazil to grow sales and exposure.

The problem we have here in Brazil is that there is no culture of rallying - just a few passionate drivers run a very poor championship (last years' round had only 6 cars in the entry list). There is no support, neither interest from the local manufacturers on Rally.

IRC had two events in Curitiba, but only 5 cars made all their way from Europe to race here (Meeke won both events, btw).

Anyways, as a rally lover, I'd love to see the WRC cars in the brazilian roads, but if it depends on the local organization, it'll have to wait a while more...

[anstis]

Is it the be all and end all to have an event in an emerging market? For sure it’s helpful, but I think, and maybe someone can correct me, that one of the biggest attractions to the Japanese manufacturers in their early days was the challenge of the Safari rally. Half a world away from Asia. So is it more important how WRC events are promoted in the emerging markets (and established ones too) via other media? I’m not jumping on the bring back Safari bandwagon, but that was one example of a very unique event that could be successfully marketed no matter what part of the world you live in, not just to Kenyans. But maybe times change…

[anstis]

what I mean is, maybe you could sell more cars to the Chinese by having a rally accross Antarctica, rather than having a rally in China. I know which one would get the bigger exposure, and it has an indigenous human population of zero.

[sollitt]

The problem we have here in Brazil is that there is no culture of rallying - just a few passionate drivers run a very poor championship (last years' round had only 6 cars in the entry list). There is no support, neither interest from the local manufacturers on Rally.
Which is exactly why there shouldn't be a WRC round there.

We mustn't lose sight of the fact that, whilst it may be desirable to have manufacturer and corporate involvement, the WRC is first & foremost a sporting competition founded and grown on the backs of those countries and events where the sport is strong.

A lot is written here about the 'relevance' of WRC rounds running in certain countries suggesting that manufacturers interests would be better served by running in more populated regions with higher GDP.
The argument is flawed.

Regardless of the size of the market, a message in the wrong media will fail to hit the target. Would you advertise a tennis racquet in a golfing magazine?

Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

A far better way to attract the attention of these populations is to have one of their nationals perform well/win at a historic and iconic event.

As an example, you could replicate the Tour de France out of Shanghai. Same format, same distance, same top cyclists. The locals wouldn't bat an eyelid and the event would come and go without a ripple. However if a Chinese national were to win the actual Tour de France it'd be major media and the whole country would know about it.

On a similar vein here in New Zealand, Hayden Paddon's PWRC success has generated more media and hooplah than the last 3 or 4 WRC rounds staged here combined.

In Japan, Kino5hita and Fujimoto were household names, aligned with brands, long before that country ever staged a WRC round.

Manufacturers would be far better served by dropping their blind belief in Scandanavian/European drivers and taking a whole world approach to recruitment and development. The FIA could assist by a return the rules that allowed manufacturers to score points with nominated locals, or specialists where advantageous.

[sollitt]

what I mean is, maybe you could sell more cars to the Chinese by having a rally accross Antarctica, rather than having a rally in China. I know which one would get the bigger exposure, and it has an indigenous human population of zero.

Absolutely correct.

[AndyRAC]

You make some good and relevant points Sollitt;
The sort needs to grow, however, it needs to go to markets were there is a demand for it. The Far East, India, Brazil, etc all huge car markets, BUT is there much interest in Rallying? Not much point in going if all we get a few hundred spectators and a few sheep, e;g Jordan.
Conversely, Greece; The Acropolis is one of the classics - yet how important is Greece to the WRC Manufacturers? Same with Australia/NZ - both have great events, but are 'small fry' for the Manufacturers.

The sport has to be careful which path it takes - F1 can probably get away with going to places with 2 men & a dog, the WRC mustn't do the same.
Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

[Plan9]

I think that Mini does take the NZ market seriously.

Consider this: Hubcap Cafe Auckland - Restaurant Information , 130 Ponsonby Road (http://www.viewauckland.co.nz/restaurants/hubcap-cafe-info-66710.html)

Almost my favorite place to eat. Not many places your can look at Countryman ALL4's and Coops S' and have a pie. Brilliant marketing.

Have they done this elsewhere in the world??

Its not the size of the market in NZ; possibly the markets relative wealth is what attracts car companies.

[sollitt]

Car companies do not take NZ seriously at all. For the most part we have new car brands in NZ solely due to the fact that we have private NZ companies importing them. Most manufacturers upped roots and buggered off when the Govt pulled their subsidies a couple of decades ago.

You're correct though in that the size of the market isn't necessary inline with the population. NZ seemingly has the highest car per head of capita ratio in the world and, along with Australia, is a relatively wealthy market with little or no brand loyalty. This could render it's market more attractive than a larger country where the average Joe drives a knock off 1963 Morris Oxford made from last week's baked bean can and costing 13 ruppees.

[Maxi]

In 2013 we will see Ford, Citroen, VW, and maybe Mini in the WRC!

[James Graham]

You make some good and relevant points Sollitt;
The sort needs to grow, however, it needs to go to markets were there is a demand for it. The Far East, India, Brazil, etc all huge car markets, BUT is there much interest in Rallying? Not much point in going if all we get a few hundred spectators and a few sheep, e;g Jordan.
Conversely, Greece; The Acropolis is one of the classics - yet how important is Greece to the WRC Manufacturers? Same with Australia/NZ - both have great events, but are 'small fry' for the Manufacturers.

The sport has to be careful which path it takes - F1 can probably get away with going to places with 2 men & a dog, the WRC mustn't do the same.
Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

This is a good point. Choosing events is no easy task, manufacturers want fewer events (which is a good idea to keep costs down) but they also want to go to markets that will potentially buy their vehicles but there is also a third consideration in that some events such as the classic Acropolis and 1000 Lakes should be kept in because winning these events still holds some weight and manufacturers can still boast about their car being good enough to win such a tough event.

Despite this promotional mess at the moment I think things might end up shaking themselves out for the better, but more by good luck than by good management. The IRC will probably die off after this year as it reverts to an FIA sanctioned European championship;

VW will be moving from SWRC to the WRC
Skoda will not have a home to go to with IRC folding but maybe VAG could be persuaded to carry on the SKODA project in the SWRC.
Proton are making a return to the SWRC this year.
Subaru still knock around in the PWRC for what it is worth and if the R4 an get on the pace of the S2000's then it would be great.
Ford and Citroen must be commended for keeping WRC going for so long and we can only hope VW and BMW put their hands in their pockets for a long term project.
Maybe Peugeot could be tempted to come to the SWRC for 2013 too.
Which may entice FIAT to produce a competitive S2000 car to compete in the SWRC.

The only problem is that S2000 is a not really what the manufacturers or the FIA want with the push to go to 1600cc as the premier formula. It is a shame as the S2000's could easily be made into the top tier of the sport, costs could be massively reduced and overnight we would bring all of those new manufacturers into the World Championship and have spectacular looking and sounding cars to watch.

So just when we are getting a good two tier World Championship, or a very good opportunity to knock through a few walls and make one big happy World Championship with loads of manufacturers, our short sighted governing body will make yet another change and the manufacturers will give up and go and spend their money making viral adverts for YouTube rather than going rallying.

[OldF]

We have already a Chinese tyre manufacturer in WRC so maybe the next new manufacturer could bee a Chinese manufacturer.


Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

That’s how I also see it. What’s the point to go to a country where there’s no legacy of rallying. There could be several hours of broadcasting on a free channel but if there isn’t any interest watching the broadcast or no spectators on stages, there’s no promotion. In a country where rallying doesn’t have any legacy, there should be lot of promotion on TV a long time before the event starts.


A far better way to attract the attention of these populations is to have one of their nationals perform well/win at a historic and iconic event.

This is the key question. I think the interest in France have increased by the success of Sebastian Loeb. I’ve also read on this forum that the sales of Citroen cars has increased when Petter was driving a Citroen.


As an example, you could replicate the Tour de France out of Shanghai. Same format, same distance, same top cyclists. The locals wouldn't bat an eyelid and the event would come and go without a ripple. However if a Chinese national were to win the actual Tour de France it'd be major media and the whole country would know about it.

Or even better, a Chinese winning Tour de France in Shanghai.


Or does the customers buy their cars by reports like tüv inspection reports or Autobild quality reports.

VdTÜV-Portal (http://www.vdtuev.de/)

TÜV inspection report (text in Finnish)
http://www2.hs.fi/extrat/autot/pdf/TUV_2012.pdf

Katsastukset aikavälillä heinäkuu 2010 - kesäkuu 2011 = Surveys run in July 2010 - June 2011
Isojen vikojen osuus = percentage of big failures
keskimääräinen ajomäärä = average mileage

Autobild quality report (text in Finnish)
http://www2.hs.fi/extrat/autot/pdf/autobild_laaturaportti_2011.pdf

Rating: 1 = very good, 5 = very weak.
The quality of the report results are based on seven factors, explaining the car and
maintenance of the quality of service in Germany.
1. 8 610 vehicle user experience (GfK, a market research company's survey).
2. Back to invitations, or repair calls the number, severity of defects, information and service quality.
3. TÜV inspection report of the results.
4. Auto Bild magazine's 100 000 km of the duration of the test results.
5. Auto Bild magazine, reader feedback "error box" sites (9 000 posts).
6. Auto Bild-repair test results.
7. Warranty Terms and Conditions.
Source: Auto Bild 51/52 No. 2011, published in Germany, 23.12.2011.,AUTOBILD.DE - Testberichte - Automarkt - Autokauf (http://www.autobild.de)

[Plan9]

Most Chinese manufacturers only export substitutes of Japanese products. Is there any point of them using 1 of those at the moment in the WRC?

[tlongman]

I understand the need for a pre-existing rally culture when staging a WRC event, but if the championship were to ever run in the USA I would be there in an instant. The problem is, there is absolutely NO promotion of the series over here. No TV package now that Eurosport has taken over promotion, no WRC events, no mention of rallying in racing news programs. Its a shame because theres is a fairly large fan base for rallying here. The rally america series has done a great job with the resources it has to organize events but its certainly not mainstream. Ken Block has helped get his brand and the WRC name out there but not nearly enough. If WRC were to have a decent TV package on a mainstream network I think it could take off. Us americans love extreme sports and it doesn't get much more extreme than WRC. Until then though I'll be stuck watching torrents and youtube videos the next day.

[RS]

The only problem is that S2000 is a not really what the manufacturers or the FIA want with the push to go to 1600cc as the premier formula. It is a shame as the S2000's could easily be made into the top tier of the sport, costs could be massively reduced and overnight we would bring all of those new manufacturers into the World Championship and have spectacular looking and sounding cars to watch.


The boat was missed on that one I think. Probably if this formula had been adopted the costs would have gone up for those too but I am still missing them a bit from this years Monte. The turbo cars are still a little 'soft' in the way they are driven to my taste.

[pantealex]

Current new road cars are mostly turbopowered, so I don´t think that manufactures want make non turbo race cars

What they make now:

VAG (vw,skoda,seat,audi) turbo 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 4.0
Ford turbo 1.0 1.6
BMW and Mini turbo 1.6 2.0
PSA (citroen/peugeot) turbo 1.6
Renault turbo 1.2
Fiat Chrysler turbo 1.4
GM (opel/vauxhall/chevrolet) turbo 1.4 1.6
Volvo turbo 1.6

Subaru 50/50 2.0 2.5

Hyundai/Kia NO turbo
Toyota NO turbo
Nissan NO turbo
Honda NO turbo
Proton NO turbo ?
Suzuki NO turbo
Mazda NO turbo
Mitsu NO turbo
almost all do some special model with turbo

I believe that most of current NO turbo road cars manufactures will change their policy soon, much lower CO2 with turbo

[BDunnell]

Some excellent points in sollitt's post above.


Which is exactly why there shouldn't be a WRC round there.

We mustn't lose sight of the fact that, whilst it may be desirable to have manufacturer and corporate involvement, the WRC is first & foremost a sporting competition founded and grown on the backs of those countries and events where the sport is strong.

A lot is written here about the 'relevance' of WRC rounds running in certain countries suggesting that manufacturers interests would be better served by running in more populated regions with higher GDP.
The argument is flawed.

Regardless of the size of the market, a message in the wrong media will fail to hit the target. Would you advertise a tennis racquet in a golfing magazine?

Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

Hence the failures of the Chinese round in the late 1990s and the old Brazilian round. I would also suggest Argentina has been lucky to survive for so long, given the poor entry lists there. At least now a good manufacturer entry is guaranteed for every round.



Manufacturers would be far better served by dropping their blind belief in Scandanavian/European drivers and taking a whole world approach to recruitment and development. The FIA could assist by a return the rules that allowed manufacturers to score points with nominated locals, or specialists where advantageous.

Potentially, you are right. However, is there not an extent to which the majority of top drivers will continue to come from Europe, given that the strength of the rallying scene in many European countries far outweighs that found elsewhere, thus producing more and better drivers from national championships? This has long been the case, in spite of many chances being given to drivers from elsewhere, and I can't see it changing. My main concern, rather than surrounding the areas from which new, young drivers come, is the lack of opportunity being given to such drivers even when they hail from countries where the sport is well-known and established. Domestic championships seem to have become increasingly poor training-grounds.

[BDunnell]

Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

And make national championships genuinely relevant again, as they were 30-odd years ago.

[BDunnell]

The only problem is that S2000 is a not really what the manufacturers or the FIA want with the push to go to 1600cc as the premier formula. It is a shame as the S2000's could easily be made into the top tier of the sport, costs could be massively reduced and overnight we would bring all of those new manufacturers into the World Championship and have spectacular looking and sounding cars to watch.

Agreed. And then there would, at long last, be the chance for national championships again to run the same equipment in their top classes as the WRC, something I feel is of huge benefit to driver development.