M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Sulland]

I see Tanak is in, but what about the rest of the teams under the M-Sport umbrella?

Østberg
Henning
Wilson
Prokop
and others that are in and out

What ford teams will run on their own, and who will be running under the M-Sport flag?

[Allar]

Prokop have a privateer team, he dont even rent cars from M-sport.

[MikeD]

Prokop have a privateer team, he dont even rent cars from M-sport.

I think that's only correct regarding his Fiesta S2000 - his new Fiesta WRC is run and prepared by M-Sport (not 100% sure, but pretty close)

[focus206]

Maybe Mads could be with Team Adapta? And maybe with Henning and Wilson? Many maybes...

[Mirek]

I think that's only correct regarding his Fiesta S2000 - his new Fiesta WRC is run and prepared by M-Sport (not 100% sure, but pretty close)

You are 100% wrong :)

[mousti]

It's fully run by Prokop's team isn't it? Just getting help from a Msport engineer often probably such stuff. Many privateers can have that.

[noel157]

It's fully run by Prokop's team isn't it? Just getting help from a Msport engineer often probably such stuff. Many privateers can have that.

I think that's part of the deal when you buy an WRC car, engineer and his laptop comes with it (so to speak) at least for a certain period, no?

[Barreis]

Yes for Prodrive.

[mousti]

Msport too, that's what I know. But u have to pay for the engineer per rally for Prodrive that is, probably for Msport too..

[MikeD]

You are 100% wrong :)

Ok, then i stand corrected :) But then he's the first to have a Fiesta WRC run/prepared another team than M-Sport, correct?

I recall last year at Rally GB that Colin Clark (WRR) said his Fiesta WRC wasn't run by his own team like the S2000 was.

[Mirek]

He is not the only one. Östberg today used his own new Fiesta in Norway. Car of Al Rahji is I think also run separately by Simon Jean-Joseph Racing. I know about others going to be used by private teams in this season.

[MikeD]

He is not the only one. Östberg today used his own new Fiesta in Norway. Car of Al Rahji is I think also run separately by Simon Jean-Joseph Racing. I know about others going to be used by private teams in this season.

Ok, I was only refering to WRC rounds and and WRC cars (post 2011) and there I think he will be the first not to have his Fiesta WRC run by M-Sport. Is his team still called Jipocar Racing Team?

Interesting to see if Østberg will have his run by Adapta/Team Østberg.

PS: It's Ö in Sweden and Ø in Norway and Denmark :) .. same sound but differnt letter

[Sulland]

PS: It's Ö in Sweden and Ø in Norway and Denmark :) .. same sound but differnt letter

Ö also in Finland, like in Grönholm for instance.

[carmichael]

Is his team still called Jipocar Racing Team?
no, it's CZECH FORD NATIONAL TEAM.


Ö also in Finland, like in Grönholm for instance.
Ö is also in Estonian, but still i write östberg, than copy-pasting Ø from somewhere.

[Sulland]

Ö is also in Estonian, but still i write östberg, than copy-pasting Ø from somewhere.
;) please do!!

But lets go back on the road, who are the 4 in the 2 M-Sport teams people ?

[Mirek]

PS: It's Ö in Sweden and Ø in Norway and Denmark :) .. same sound but differnt letter

Ah, ok. I don't have this letter on my keyboard :)


no, it's CZECH FORD NATIONAL TEAM.

Yes and no... Prokop's team is Jipocar Racing but they are entered in WRC as Czech Ford National Team because they get some support from Ford and Czech ASN. Jipocar is a logistic company of Prokop's father.

[carmichael]

Yes and no... Prokop's team is Jipocar Racing but they are entered in WRC as Czech Ford National Team because they get some support from Ford and Czech ASN. Jipocar is a logistic company of Prokop's father.
so formally team's name is Czech Ford National Team, but in reality it's Jipocar Racing Team. Only the name has changed?

[MikeD]

so formally team's name is Czech Ford National Team, but in reality it's Jipocar Racing Team. Only the name has changed?

It's very common in WRC that entry-name is different from team-name. E.g. the M2 team Armindo Arauju WRC is the entry name but the team running/preparing the car is Motorsport Italia.

[alleskids]

Also Paulo Nobre's Palmeirinha Rally M2 team is run by Motorsport Italia

There is some room on the Manufactuere list for M2 teams
1-2 Citroen
3-4 Ford WRT
5-6 M-Sport
7-11 ......
12 Armindo Araujo WRC
14 Palmeirinha Rally
and Mini has the historic 37 and 52

[pucky54]

Also Paulo Nobre's Palmeirinha Rally M2 team is run by Motorsport Italia


Who are the same as Ralliart Italy, as Kosciuszko's car is run by them too :)

[Viking]

In RMC Ott Tänak and Evgeny Novikov are nominated by M-Sport Ford World Rally Team, which has also entered 1994 Monte Carlo winner François Delecour.
Martin Prokop are entered by the Czech Ford National Team.
Individual entries have been placed by Matthew Wilson, Henning Solberg and Julien Maurin.

I think the plan is for Solberg and Wilson to form an second "M-Sport Ford World Rally Team"

[carmichael]

I think the plan is for Solberg and Wilson to form an second "M-Sport Ford World Rally Team"

maybe, but leading driver in that team throughout the season will be tänak!

[Roy]

There are one M-Sport Ford World Rally team, what is nominated two cars for points.

Tänak is leading driver and Novikov likes the other nominated driver for Monte Carlo and Sweden.

There is not yet another M-Sport affiliated team like we had last year: Munchi's, Ferm, Monster.
These teams have still a link on the website of M-Sport. Welcome to M-Sport (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/)
Maybe these team later make their announcement to be again a WRC team in 2012.

Ford is for now in with 'only' two teams what can score points. Ford as Manufacturer and M-Sport as WRC team.
Other drivers (Henning for example) are private-entry and one team-entry (Prokop), they can't score points for teams.

[MJW]

If you see I Rally both Henning and Mathew's Monteis in doubt due to sponsors money not coming through, so I guess another Ford team is (was) planned. This I think is the replacement for Stobart.

[Roy]

If you see I Rally both Henning and Mathew's Monteis in doubt due to sponsors money not coming through, so I guess another Ford team is (was) planned. This I think is the replacement for Stobart.

The new M-Sport Ford WRT with Tänak is the new Stobart M-Sport Ford WRT.

"Replacing the M-Sport Stobart Ford World Rally Team as the WRC’s leading privateer, the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team will be hoping to emulate the successes of its predecessor’s final season and get its own 2012 campaign off to a flying start."
from: M-Sport look to speed and experience in the Principalirt (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/index.php/news/908-m-sport-look-to-speed-and-experience-for-strong-points-in-the-principalirt)

[Barreis]

Novikov?! There's no super rally on this event.

[focus206]

Henning and Wilson have the same livery on their cars in Monte, so there is/was planned to form a team...

[dimviii]

If you see I Rally both Henning and Mathew's Monteis in doubt due to sponsors money not coming through, so I guess another Ford team is (was) planned. This I think is the replacement for Stobart.
from the covered scheme at Hennings car i saw ,maybe is Samsung or again expert as the front bumper is orange.

[pucky54]

from the covered scheme at Hennings car i saw ,maybe is Samsung or again expert as the front bumper is orange.

hmmm I see a white bumper on hennings car with black and red wrap on it

[Red bull]

hmmm I see a white bumper on hennings car with black and red wrap on it

some pictures of wilson/henning cars please.....

[Elayne]

The Athlete's Energy Drink - Go Fast Sports and Beverage Co. - Worldwide sports (http://www.gofastsports.com/)

[dimviii]

some pictures of wilson/henning cars please.....

rallysport.hu - Monte Carlo Rallye 2012 - szerviz (http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2012/photo/wrc/01_monte/01_fri_sp/index.htm)

[dimviii]

The Athlete's Energy Drink - Go Fast Sports and Beverage Co. - Worldwide sports (http://www.gofastsports.com/)

seems the scheme perfect!

[tolis]

It seems that the second M-Sport Ford team will be called Go Fast Energy WRT.
Go Fast Energy World Rally Team - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Go-Fast-Energy-World-Rally-Team/252232031511836?sk=wall)
The crews will be as expected Henning Solberg/Ilka Minor and Matthew Wilson/Scott Martin!

[mousti]

Seems that everything will be okay then if this is a legit facebook page offcourse..

[N.O.T]

Taking bets on how fast will they fold......

[Roy]

https://twitter.com/#!/DovenbyHall/status/159001709673332736

[focus206]

So now with Henning and Wilson in the same team, I guess Mads will run alone with Adapta?

[bluuford]

Tänak is going to have new livery in Sweden:
M-SPORT AIM TO CONTINUE SUCCESSES IN SWEDEN | RallyBuzz (http://www.rallybuzz.com/m-sport-aim-to-continue-successes-in-sweden/)

[Sulland]

What does the Ford pull out mean to M-Sport?

Will they continue, but with more sponsors on the car?
Will they get full freedom to develop the Fiesta WRC further, and take over some engineers?

Or does it mean that 13 is the last season for the WRCars and that R5 takes over from 14, and Ford want to save money in 13, and concentrate on R5 development?

[J.Lindstroem]

"Oh boy, that escaladed quickly. I mean that really got out of hand fast!" - Ron Burgundy

I bet M-Sport needs some serious money now. Some random pay driver will probably drive. Who?

[rallye-vid]

Yazeed ?

[alleskids]

Evgeny Novikov for ALM Ford WRT as official representive for Ford?
Yazeed Al Rajri as second driver?

[bluuford]

Yeah, their business is really big. 27 different drivers have used Fiesta WRC in WRC rallies (just WRC rallies), 106 rally starts with Fiesta WRC. And if you think that 48 drivers (205 rally starts with WRCars) have driven WRCars in WRC this year (including Spain - most of the entries are already known), then their share is a bit over 50%. That is a lot. Plus all the RRCars, basically the same as WRCars+ S2000 cars..and that is WRC only (just the top of the ice-berg).
The story that Wilson changes to other team does not sound realistic. He needs to continue and promote his team with good drivers to show his goods in as good light as possible.

[dimviii]

from Gerard Quinns twitter

I stay with Ford to run our other Ford Racing projects in Europe. My team will continue to provide M-Sport technical support.R5 continues

[Mirek]

Yeah, their business is really big. 27 different drivers have used Fiesta WRC in WRC rallies (just WRC rallies), 106 rally starts with Fiesta WRC. And if you think that 48 drivers (205 rally starts with WRCars) have driven WRCars in WRC this year (including Spain - most of the entries are already known), then their share is a bit over 50%. That is a lot. Plus all the RRCars, basically the same as WRCars+ S2000 cars..and that is WRC only (just the top of the ice-berg).
The story that Wilson changes to other team does not sound realistic. He needs to continue and promote his team with good drivers to show his goods in as good light as possible.

Yes, in numbers of M-Sport it really can work independently. For example in 2010 they sold around 40 Fiesta S2000 in one year! We also have to include the Academy and hundreds of R2, R1, N3 cars everywhere. Than all the maintenance and servicing...

[vkangas]

Tried to find M-sports financial figures but I suppose in UK you do not have to make them public for limited companies like in Finland. However, one free service had some basic numbers: Company Check - Free company financial check on M. SPORT LIMITED. Registered number 02105112. Free company accounts. Companies House information (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02105112)
Based on those figures I'd estimate M-sports annual profit to be somewhere near 3 million Euros which is not that much. Based on those It's hard to say about net sales but 20-60 million Euros could be a rough estimate.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Why would Yazeed want to be in a Russian team? He should have his own team with the funds he get get.

[AMSS]

Maybe it´s not all bad, if I remember correctly the deal between Ford and M-sport was such that 50% of every sold car went back to Ford. Ford not being involved should mean M-sport keeps the hole profit of this.
Also they will still have some sort of support(technical and engineering) precisly what this means I can´t say, but if they keep providing them with at least some parts that are not M-sport made than the support would actually be quit significant.

[alleskids]

M-Sport needs the paying driver now more then ever. Yazeed and Novikov seem the be the most valuable drivers around with a steady and wealthy budget. If there will be a M-Sport / Ford team for the manufacturer championship Malcolm Wilson has to look for these drivers

[GigiGalliNo1]

It only costs how man £'s to buy a Fiesta road car, put in roll cage, structure it properly and build an engine etc so think M-Sport make money from it :)

[Mirek]

It only costs how man £'s to buy a Fiesta road car, put in roll cage, structure it properly and build an engine etc so think M-Sport make money from it :)

I think that no WRC car ever had a rollcage built in the complete shell. AFAIK the rollcage is being welded on the base platform and the bodyshell than built around it...

[kirungi okwogera]

M-Sport needs the paying driver now more then ever. Yazeed and Novikov seem the be the most valuable drivers around with a steady and wealthy budget. If there will be a M-Sport / Ford team for the manufacturer championship Malcolm Wilson has to look for these drivers
Al-Rajhi has said he is not interested in WRC until he is good or experienced enough to be the best in Super 2000s. Sensible, otherwise if you jump in too early you might just be wasting your sponsors' money and good will. Ask Antony Warmbold if he's around! He talks about it on his blog though.

[navtheace]

Tried to find M-sports financial figures but I suppose in UK you do not have to make them public for limited companies like in Finland. However, one free service had some basic numbers: Company Check - Free company financial check on M. SPORT LIMITED. Registered number 02105112. Free company accounts. Companies House information (http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02105112)
Based on those figures I'd estimate M-sports annual profit to be somewhere near 3 million Euros which is not that much. Based on those It's hard to say about net sales but 20-60 million Euros could be a rough estimate.

You can get more information if you buy a copy of the accounts for a few pounds in the UK.

[Maui J.]

It only costs how man £'s to buy a Fiesta road car, put in roll cage, structure it properly and build an engine etc so think M-Sport make money from it :)

I didn't realise it was so easy to make a WRC car. Why didn't I start years ago?!!!!!

[GigiGalliNo1]

Sorry guys, I'm not being a smart a$$

But I are your points. There is a lot more into building the cars and then looking after them

[MikeD]

Yeah, their business is really big. 27 different drivers have used Fiesta WRC in WRC rallies (just WRC rallies)

It's actually 32 different drivers who have driven the Fiesta WRC in 2011 and 2012 YTD.




A.Burkart


B.Sousa


C.Atkinson


D.Kuipers


D.Oliveira


D.Sordo


E.Brynildsen


E.Novikov


F.Delecour


F.Villagra


H.Solberg


J.Habig


J.Ketomaa


J.Latvala


J.Maurin


K.Al Qassimi


K.Block


L.Athanassoulas


M.Hirvonen


M.Prokop


M.Rantanen


M.Solowow


M.Stohl


M.Wilson


M.Østberg


O.Tamrazov


O.Tänak


P.Andersson


R.Kuipers


R.Triviño


S.Lindholm


S.Pavlides

[vino_93]

and John Powell will drive on in Catalunya :)

[pettersolberg29]

It's actually 32 different drivers who have driven the Fiesta WRC in 2011 and 2012 YTD.


Is it just me or does that table not include Petter - so it's actually 33? Or am I blind?

[bluuford]

I was talking about 2012 only.. but your list is nice :-) Thank you:-)

[Jacek]

Does anyone know why M-Sport uses Volvo S60 (probably with Haldex AWD ??) cars for reconnaissance of special stages ?
Here is one photo (can't post it directly, still having less then 15 posts :) )
cdn.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/WRC-101-23.jpg

[Humber]

Ford owned Volvo Cars from 1999 to 2008. Probably with the recession etc it was not cool to run new recce cars if the old ones were still doing the job.

[Jacek]

Yes, maybe it is just that simple. I was wondering is there anything interesting in their construction that made a recce car? That time it was the only Ford passenger car with AWD (?), especially in Europe.

[mousti]

Don't think so they will use the Volvo's till they break apart I think, btw those Volvo's are very powerfull and strong u can do everything with it :D . Citroën uses Lancer's, VW Polo R's and Prodrive Mini Cooper S.

[pantealex]

Don't think so they will use the Volvo's till they break apart I think, btw those Volvo's are very powerfull and strong u can do everything with it :D . Citroën uses Lancer's, VW Polo R's and Prodrive Mini Cooper S.

VW uses Golf R Mk6. (4WD), there is NO Polo 4WD, street version of WRC is FWD.

Prodrives car is Mini Countryman All4 (4WD), normal Cooper S is FWD

Citroen uses old Evo9

[Sulland]

Saw the coverage of Acropolis tonight. In the first part they had a piece on suspension. In several slow motion phases we saw the Fiesta's front suspension work in rough conditions, and also the DS3.

The Fiestas front wheels wobbled a lot side to side during compression, something the DS3 did not.
It moved so fast imo that it could not be the driver doing it.

If this is normal for the Ford, That would explain the front suspension breakages they have all the time.

[RS]

Neuville top M-Sport driver up to now. Impressive in only his second season.

[tommeke_B]

Neuville top M-Sport driver up to now. Impressive in only his second season.

I would rather say Ostberg and Novikov are disappointing this season... Especially Ostberg, where is his consistency he had last year?

[Vaggelis27]

i think that next year mads and novikov will be in their teams like last years.

[Eli]

they might just join Hyundai Motorsport?? you know i really wonder who will be their drivers for next year...

[Padowa]

Saw the coverage of Acropolis tonight. In the first part they had a piece on suspension. In several slow motion phases we saw the Fiesta's front suspension work in rough conditions, and also the DS3.

The Fiestas front wheels wobbled a lot side to side during compression, something the DS3 did not.
It moved so fast imo that it could not be the driver doing it.

If this is normal for the Ford, That would explain the front suspension breakages they have all the time.


the Vw does this as well, and Jari Matti broken the suspension in the Vw and ford, it simple you hit thing hard enough they break...

[stefanvv]

The DS3 suspension looks much more packed indeed. IMO both approaches has its pros and cons. Longer suspension travel is much more agile when cornering in ditches as the tyre has more grip (at least some grip), but the cons in this I think is front impact of the suspension, as some parts are exposed to risk. Suspension with less travel IMO on the other hand has vulberability of side impact, as the parts are much shorter and tightened and the suspension is not so much inclined to bent (typical example is Atkinson's broken wheel in Finland last year). That's 2-1 for longer travel, so I think Ford's and VW's chooise is proving to be better solution.

[Vaggelis27]

they might just join Hyundai Motorsport?? you know i really wonder who will be their drivers for next year...
There are a lot of names that we have read.First of all Petter Solberg.Juho Hanninen,Thierry Neuville,Haydden Paddon are in their chοices..

[noel157]

Hey, don't forget Per-Gunnar......

[Allyc85]

Random question, but will we be seeing a face lifted Fiesta WRC any time soon, as mentioned earlier in the season?

[tommeke_B]

Random question, but will we be seeing a face lifted Fiesta WRC any time soon, as mentioned earlier in the season?

If half a year qualifies for "any time soon", yes, I think :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

R5 is new shape Fiesta, I don't see why the WRC won't have a new face? And new Tail lights?

[tommeke_B]

R5 is new shape Fiesta, I don't see why the WRC won't have a new face? And new Tail lights?
Next year, new car, new homologation... New engine? ;)

[makinen_fan]

But it was agreed 1-2 months ago to use same cars for 2014 and break the 3-year circle of homologation

[tommeke_B]

But it was agreed 1-2 months ago to use same cars for 2014 and break the 3-year circle of homologation
Do you have a link of an article? I probably missed that... :)

[EightGear]

Do you have a link of an article? I probably missed that... :)


Volkswagen agrees to freeze development of WRC car - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108137/) :)

[OldF]

I think the WRC can have a face lift homologation by an ET homologation with no need of a new WRC homologation.

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/251%20%282013%29.pdf

Evolution (ET)
Characterises modifications made on a permanent basis to the basic model (complete cessation of the production of the car in its original form.

[Racing Ka]

ET is for the base car. It need to be WR page for competition use if you like to change the look of WRC car.

[OldF]

I know that a WR homologation is also needed but it sounds crazy that with some small body shell modifications to the standard car, a new WR homologation would be needed if all the WRC kit parts remain the same. What’s the point then with an ET homologation?

[Racing Ka]

Not so much anymore, but previous Gp A/N cars needed them.

[Mad cat jnr]

The freeze comes in towards the end of August I believe

[navtheace]

The freeze comes in towards the end of August I believe

I think there will be no more development of the WRCars then, as it is looking more likely that once R5 comes into play in 2014, that the FIA will shift rallying towards R5 as the top category.

[makinen_fan]

I think there will be no more development of the WRCars then, as it is looking more likely that once R5 comes into play in 2014, that the FIA will shift rallying towards R5 as the top category.

Are there any interviews with team principals, FIA etc that point to that the R5 will replace the WRC? I cant remember reading something like that. R5 is meant to be a support (affordable) class, and not the primary class in WRC, so it is designed with customers in mind. Works teams can go wild on them i they become the primary class and they will no longer be affordable

[Mad cat jnr]

I think your very wrong there Nav, there will be further development.

[navtheace]

I think your very wrong there Nav, there will be further development.

It's difficult to know. It is just my thoughts, so you could well be right.

With the freeze on homologation on current World Rally Cars, and with R5 looking popular. Along with Malcolm Wilson speaking about how R5 has the potential to become the leading category.

We could well see WRC/RRC phased out as R5 cars show up in 2014 more and more.

Remember how so many made it very clear that S2000 was a category that will become the top category in rallying, yet it didn't and now has been frozen.

We will just have to see how things pan out in 2014 and wait to hear what the FIA announce about the whole situation.

Having a mix of categories at the top of rallying, like WRC, RRC, S2000 has not worked with all the WRC for works teams, RRC for this championships, and S2000 for that etc.

Wealthy privateers are done with all this, the whole sport needs one top category with very strict controls on the modifications to the top category to keep costs from going out of control.

[OldF]

I understood that homologation freeze only comprised new WRC homologations, not any new VO homologations.

Also by Malcom Wilson, the price of a R5 is frozen until the end of 2015 so I don’t think there will be any changes in the WRC format before that.

World Rally Championship - News - Wilson: New R5 a big step forward (http://www.wrc.com/news/wilson-new-r5-a-big-step-forward/?fid=18654)

[donymo]

tank you for share this :)

[Sulland]

Quite amazing how bad MSport is to set up the cars before SS 1. They vey often mess it up!

[PLuto]

I understood that homologation freeze only comprised new WRC homologations, not any new VO homologations.

Also by Malcom Wilson, the price of a R5 is frozen until the end of 2015 so I don’t think there will be any changes in the WRC format before that.

World Rally Championship - News - Wilson: New R5 a big step forward (http://www.wrc.com/news/wilson-new-r5-a-big-step-forward/?fid=18654)

No, this "frozen price" is quite difficult story. FIA set the price limit for S2000 cars, but manufacturers raised that price much more highly. So now there is new system where all costs and prices are regulated...

[litifeta]

Malcolm would like the R5 to be the top class, but admits that with new entrants Hyundai and VW it is not fair just yet. It does make a lot more sense. but from my perspective, I still have issues with manufacturers who do not even market an AWD sports car entering. It needs to be much more production based and is becoming a boring sport with sprints and the same old stages each year.

[Mirek]

Malcolm would like the R5 to be the top class, but admits that with new entrants Hyundai and VW it is not fair just yet. It does make a lot more sense. but from my perspective, I still have issues with manufacturers who do not even market an AWD sports car entering. It needs to be much more production based and is becoming a boring sport with sprints and the same old stages each year.

Forget about that dream. Times changed. No manufacturer can afford to develop and produce road-going WRC anymore. A stock car has became a colossal process which requires years of preparations, thousands of people, hundreds of sub-suppliers, after-sale services all over the Globe etc. Plus there are more and more strict emission and fuel-consumption standards. Also the market for such cars is very small. Nobody can make profit out of that. Current WRC rules are simply multiply cheaper for any manufacturer than production based rallycars. They are also much more flexible. Imagine what it is to change just one button in the dashboard in a stock car. It takes several months and huge money to implement any change in the process.

[AdvEvo]

Thats a nice explanation but.

People are getting less interested in the sport if they cannot buy streetversions of a wrc car. (I mean no stickertuning versions) Also Dtm does not have the apeal from a big audience like it was in the time they raced e30 DTM. Win on sunday sell on monday.

[Mirek]

Cars became a common consumer goods through the years. It's very different to situation 30 years a go. In the days when having a car with 60 Hp was something of a value to see a car with 300 Hp was something special itself. Who can be stunned by 300 Hp strong cars in 2013? Everybody can buy a 300 Hp car today. There's hardly any way out of this. World no longer lives by motoring. Do You think more buyers are interested in sporty suspension of their new car than in its comfort, color, audio or modern electronic stuff to play with? I doubt so. Thirty years a go people used to know at least what they have under the bonnet. Now even BMW goes 3-cylinder FWD way...

[AndyRAC]

Thats a nice explanation but.

People are getting less interested in the sport if they cannot buy streetversions of a wrc car. (I mean no stickertuning versions) Also Dtm does not have the apeal from a big audience like it was in the time they raced e30 DTM. Win on sunday sell on monday.

I don't underatand this - people won't follow the WRC because they can't buy a 'street version'? Sadly, this is quite a common view I see repeatedly on other car forums.
I never hear this from F1, LMP1 fans....... ;)

[janvanvurpa]

Thats a nice explanation but.

People are getting less interested in the sport if they cannot buy streetversions of a wrc car. (I mean no stickertuning versions) Also Dtm does not have the apeal from a big audience like it was in the time they raced e30 DTM. Win on sunday sell on monday.

I don't underatand this - people won't follow the WRC because they can't buy a 'street version'? Sadly, this is quite a common view I see repeatedly on other car forums.
I never hear this from F1, LMP1 fans....... ;)

That's because if they are a F1 LiMP1 BTCC, WTCC NASCAR INDY whatever fan-boi, they already obviously don't care, they are mere media consumers--since they CAN'T buy--or even SIT in anything like what they get their ya-yas out watching..
Me I don't think I could manage to watch ANY of that stuff even for serious money.. Aside from the extremely high chance of death by boredom, there is zero connection to ANYTHING.. They are all mostly engineering exercises.
As WRC became so unlimited, so detached, and so expensive, my own interest has plummeted.
I am not interested in the adventures of rich "tourists", but so expensive is the making of the cars, the whole field is mostly full of just ordinary guys (in terms of skill or detrimination) who this week decided to play rally-driver.
When the cars are only attainable by paying Malcolm Wilson 5 million squids, the ability to spend 5 million is the primary "talent" a person must have..and POOOF! Instant WRC driver.

[noel157]

Personally I can't see not being able to buy a street version of a C4/Fiesta/Polo/I30 4wd etc an issue.

It's the spectacle and competition (often not too much of that....) that attracts the more casual fan.

[AdvEvo]

Thats a nice explanation but.

People are getting less interested in the sport if they cannot buy streetversions of a wrc car. (I mean no stickertuning versions) Also Dtm does not have the apeal from a big audience like it was in the time they raced e30 DTM. Win on sunday sell on monday.

I don't underatand this - people won't follow the WRC because they can't buy a 'street version'? Sadly, this is quite a common view I see repeatedly on other car forums.
I never hear this from F1, LMP1 fans....... ;)

That's because if they are a F1 LiMP1 BTCC, WTCC NASCAR INDY whatever fan-boi, they already obviously don't care, they are mere media consumers--since they CAN'T buy--or even SIT in anything like what they get their ya-yas out watching..
Me I don't think I could manage to watch ANY of that stuff even for serious money.. Aside from the extremely high chance of death by boredom, there is zero connection to ANYTHING.. They are all mostly engineering exercises.
As WRC became so unlimited, so detached, and so expensive, my own interest has plummeted.
I am not interested in the adventures of rich "tourists", but so expensive is the making of the cars, the whole field is mostly full of just ordinary guys (in terms of skill or detrimination) who this week decided to play rally-driver.
When the cars are only attainable by paying Malcolm Wilson 5 million squids, the ability to spend 5 million is the primary "talent" a person must have..and POOOF! Instant WRC driver.


So thru!!!

[AdvEvo]

Look at Soccer. People buying David Beckem shirts playing on the streets with a football and they can practice and practice and if they have talent they are going to the top.

I know buying cars is more expensive then a football but you get the idea. If you wanna find new rally talents you need to let people drive road cars like evo s and subaru s and eventually they are building there street evo into a rallycar. If prof rallyteams have talent spotters they can offer them testdrives.

But nowadays you must buy you into expensive rally cars. De dream is already over if you know the cost. The path from hobby weekend rally driver to new talent is not there anymore. It s becoming a money show. Bring a big budget and you be a WRC rally driver in a blink of eye.

[miniwintz]

So Ogier, Loeb, Solberg, Gronholm, McRae, and the others don't have talent? What kind of utter bullshit is this reasoning?

Motorsport has always been very expensive, it's in the nature of the sport. I don't know what the hell you are expecting.

[N.O.T]

Look at Soccer. People buying David Beckem shirts playing on the streets with a football and they can practice and practice and if they have talent they are going to the top.

I know buying cars is more expensive then a football but you get the idea. If you wanna find new rally talents you need to let people drive road cars like evo s and subaru s and eventually they are building there street evo into a rallycar. If prof rallyteams have talent spotters they can offer them testdrives.

But nowadays you must buy you into expensive rally cars. De dream is already over if you know the cost. The path from hobby weekend rally driver to new talent is not there anymore. It s becoming a money show. Bring a big budget and you be a WRC rally driver in a blink of eye.


LOL... it was always like that.

Rallying was always a sport for the upper class... and it will always be, especially when it comes to building a career out of it.

[Mirek]

LOL... it was always like that.

Rallying was always a sport for the upper class... and it will always be, especially when it comes to building a career out of it.

Actually it was not always like that everywhere. For every rule exists and exception and in this case it was the system used in the Eastern block. But that's more a historical curiosity than anything relevant for today.

[N.O.T]

LOL... it was always like that.

Rallying was always a sport for the upper class... and it will always be, especially when it comes to building a career out of it.

Actually it was not always like that everywhere. For every rule exists and exception and in this case it was the system used in the Eastern block. But that's more a historical curiosity than anything relevant for today.

when it comes to local competition you do not need money to rally...but if you want to make something out of it you do.

[Doon]

Around we go in another circle!

I've never in my life thought I'm going to stop watching Rallying because;

A. I don't have enough money to be a WRC driver.
or
B. I can't buy a 4wd turbo version of the latest WRC car.

It seems we all too often make excuses for the sport we love, when in fact it's just not that popular! Doesn't bother me, keeps the forests empty and I can still enjoy the finest drivers go flat out sideways. At the same time I can use what ever little money I have to play around in the odd amateur event.

Has anyone ever asked the question, why do we even want rallying to be popular? Watching it live at the stages in the last 10 or 15 years hasn't changed, so why are we bothered?

[N.O.T]

Has anyone ever asked the question, why do we even want rallying to be popular? Watching it live at the stages in the last 10 or 15 years hasn't changed, so why are we bothered?

You want it to be popular so you can have 4-5 manufacturers and see 2-3 proper drivers in each one of them and the stray dogs with fleas can run after 10-20 cars... Of course you will get the casual overweight sweatbag F1 fan next to you on the stages but i can live with that if we have the first option as well.

[Doon]

My point is that 10 years ago there were 7 manufacturer teams, loads of decent drivers, more fans at the events, but has the live on the stage action ever changed? No it hasn't. Lets stop moaning and enjoy rallying for what it is.

[jonkka]

Besides, having as many teams as seven is very exceptional situation in the history of WRC. The norm has been about half of that so what we really need is not that much, provided that Citroen stays with real intention.

[Nornbugger]

Donty get too hung up on the value of manufacturers teams, if they all left the sport would evolve and survive, they arent a bad thing for the sport but they certainly arent the be all and end all for it, in ways they have used there power to stem some of the good bits of the sport

[janvanvurpa]

Personally I can't see not being able to buy a street version of a C4/Fiesta/Polo/I30 4wd etc an issue.

It's the spectacle and competition (often not too much of that....) that attracts the more casual fan.

There's the critical thing. Rally has since the "World rally Car" rules become "just a spectacle" in a media world filled with tons of other spectacles.

Gone totally ---except at the club level in great events like Finlands amazing F-cup---is the old idea of what I call "identification".

Now just parade ANYTHING (rally car, Touring car, drag car, F1 car, moto-cross bike, sail boat, airplane, skateboard, skier, Monster truck ANY thing) plastered 100% in Bed Rull, Dubai, Microsoft, Merril Lynch signage , pay some fools to babble and rant and "analyze' the "brilliant move" by some schmuck---and you've done what you intended. :crazy:

Like most things "made for TV" the thing itself (in our case rally) is relatively unimportant, it is a small part of the "media package".

Mirek is right, tho. The economics of building good base cars in the old 5000 units or the reduced 2500 means we won't see anything like the cars we once saw--and own.

So our choice is simple, we should be simple minded, obedient media consumers and learn from the F1 and Nascar fans---maybe if we all stuffed enough burgers and swilled enough beer and Bed Rull or Monsterous Energy drink to paralyze our brains, we could argue incessantly about each gearchange some guy manages to do like its an important and amazing achievement... :rolleyes:

Or we could just build nice simple cars from the 80s and 90s and go get sideways ourselves! :hot:

[AdvEvo]

Personally I can't see not being able to buy a street version of a C4/Fiesta/Polo/I30 4wd etc an issue.

It's the spectacle and competition (often not too much of that....) that attracts the more casual fan.

There's the critical thing. Rally has since the "World rally Car" rules become "just a spectacle" in a media world filled with tons of other spectacles.

Gone totally ---except at the club level in great events like Finlands amazing F-cup---is the old idea of what I call "identification".

Now just parade ANYTHING (rally car, Touring car, drag car, F1 car, moto-cross bike, sail boat, airplane, skateboard, skier, Monster truck ANY thing) plastered 100% in Bed Rull, Dubai, Microsoft, Merril Lynch signage , pay some fools to babble and rant and "analyze' the "brilliant move" by some schmuck---and you've done what you intended. :crazy:

Like most things "made for TV" the thing itself (in our case rally) is relatively unimportant, it is a small part of the "media package".

Mirek is right, tho. The economics of building good base cars in the old 5000 units or the reduced 2500 means we won't see anything like the cars we once saw--and own.

So our choice is simple, we should be simple minded, obedient media consumers and learn from the F1 and Nascar fans---maybe if we all stuffed enough burgers and swilled enough beer and Bed Rull or Monsterous Energy drink to paralyze our brains, we could argue incessantly about each gearchange some guy manages to do like its an important and amazing achievement... :rolleyes:

Or we could just build nice simple cars from the 80s and 90s and go get sideways ourselves! :hot:


Awesome post!!!

[Eli]

does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?

[noel157]

The majority of people here I suspect...:)

[A FONDO]

does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?
if somebody confirm it for you then you will begin asking for another driver.

[TyPat107]

does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?

How old are you? Sorry, but your questioning reminds me of my 6 year old niece.


Have to disagree with NOT, Even at the local level you have to have some "money." Like when you call Janvanvurpa for his $2500 suspension, and your nearest event is a 10hr drive for an entry fee of $600, and the sanctioning body decides to finally update helmet rules and deems your $600 helmet unusable for next year after only 8 events. So it's all relative but it still takes money

[Eli]

does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?

How old are you? Sorry, but your questioning reminds me of my 6 year old niece.


Have to disagree with NOT, Even at the local level you have to have some "money." Like when you call Janvanvurpa for his $2500 suspension, and your nearest event is a 10hr drive for an entry fee of $600, and the sanctioning body decides to finally update helmet rules and deems your $600 helmet unusable for next year after only 8 events. So it's all relative but it still takes money

I'm truely sorry, i will stop asking those stupid questions, i promise

[ste898]

does anyone know if it's certain for Mikko Hirvonen comming back to M-Sport?

How old are you? Sorry, but your questioning reminds me of my 6 year old niece.

what a cheeky twat, it was a simple enough question which there was no need for you pathetic answer smartarse

[er88]

How many cars are Msport running next year?? I could well be mistaken but did Malcolm Wilson say somewhere that they are only going to be running two cars in their team plus nassers car?

[rage82]

How many cars are Msport running next year?? I could well be mistaken but did Malcolm Wilson say somewhere that they are only going to be running two cars in their team plus nassers car?

I'm almost certain that I heard in radio interview that M-sport with Qatar (despite Neuville is going to Huyndai), are planning to run a car in searching of a new talent. Maybe some rounds for Evans and some rounds for Paddon.

[focus206]

Rumors on twitter about Qatar leaving M-Sport for 2014, even if some time ago I remember Nasser was willing to continue the deal... but none of those rumors on twitter are from very reliable sources, so let's wait.

[RS]

Rumors on twitter about Qatar leaving M-Sport for 2014, even if some time ago I remember Nasser was willing to continue the deal... but none of those rumors on twitter are from very reliable sources, so let's wait.

They'll be in big trouble if true. Unless they can find some other middle eastern country with a few million dollars burning a hole in their pocket.

[AMSS]

Yes same things I`ve heard, something is happening as Nasser skipped his own Dakar team which has been under full construction uptil now with their own buggy, now he`s lined up as customer for BMW MINI team and as said skipped the buggy project.
Rumours are some sort of chairman of board or other high managment changes have taken place at Qatar and they`re re-evaluating all sponsorhips etc..
So not looking good regarding Qatar with M-sport.. :(

[SubaruNorway]

Story about Qatar maybe leaving M-Sport and how Nasser suddenly didn't show up at Wales Rally GB.
http://www.rally-mania.cz/news.php?id=15240

[bluuford]

The initial source of the news is veery unreliable. So, I am not too worried. Nasser not taking part in GB and going to some warm place to have fun sounds more like him:-)

[Roy]

M-Sport website has a new fresh look.

Down on the website there is even a link to ERC (link is not working yet) And racing is more in the picture. New path for M-Sport?
ERC - http://www.m-sport.co.uk/?Itemid=172
Racing - http://www.m-sport.co.uk/motorsport/rac ... sport.html (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/motorsport/racing/gt-at-m-sport.html)

[rage82]

From Colin's twitter:" Nasser confirms to me that he had positive discussions yesterday in Dubai with MW about continuing Qatar involvement with M-Sport. Nasser also confirmed that if deal is done he will do 5/6 rounds and share car with @ElfynEvans.

[RS]

From Colin's twitter:" Nasser confirms to me that he had positive discussions yesterday in Dubai with MW about continuing Qatar involvement with M-Sport. Nasser also confirmed that if deal is done he will do 5/6 rounds and share car with @ElfynEvans.

Both good news :)

[Mintexmemory]

Interesting that Ostberg is shown testing for MC on the Czech site - looks like he's with M Sport again next year - and not at Citroen. Sordo must be out of a full ride at Citroen to be negotiating with Hyundai - Making a possible Meeke / Kubica team at Citroen more likely. Especially if Mikko goes back to M Sport. So what about Novikov?

[Andre Oliveira]

Link of that test please :lips:

[Doon]

Novikov will be paying for a drive again next year with any of them teams that have a spare car for him. So probably M-Sport in the 'team' with Nasser/Evans.

Hirvonen to M-Sport hopefully and Osberg will probably join him, Meeke and Kubica in the Citroen.

Sordo to retire, then come back mid-season when Meeke and Kubica have destroyed a few cars. Loeb wins WTCC by mid season, gets back in the DS3 then wins the WRC too after Ogier has a string of DNFs. Just a guess.

[Rallyper]

Novikov will be paying for a drive again next year with any of them teams that have a spare car for him. So probably M-Sport in the 'team' with Nasser/Evans.

Hirvonen to M-Sport hopefully and Osberg will probably join him, Meeke and Kubica in the Citroen.

Sordo to retire, then come back mid-season when Meeke and Kubica have destroyed a few cars. Loeb wins WTCC by mid season, gets back in the DS3 then wins the WRC too after Ogier has a string of DNFs. Just a guess.

+1

[Rallying UK]

Interesting that Ostberg is shown testing for MC on the Czech site - looks like he's with M Sport again next year - and not at Citroen. Sordo must be out of a full ride at Citroen to be negotiating with Hyundai - Making a possible Meeke / Kubica team at Citroen more likely. Especially if Mikko goes back to M Sport. So what about Novikov?

What is "MC" and which Czech site please?

[Franky]

Interesting that Ostberg is shown testing for MC on the Czech site - looks like he's with M Sport again next year - and not at Citroen. Sordo must be out of a full ride at Citroen to be negotiating with Hyundai - Making a possible Meeke / Kubica team at Citroen more likely. Especially if Mikko goes back to M Sport. So what about Novikov?

What is "MC" and which Czech site please?

Monte-Carlo

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans needs to get as many chances as possible... I really think he can go to the top. :)

[Toyoda]

It seems the teams are missing the boat with Paddon...

[Mintexmemory]

Interesting that Ostberg is shown testing for MC on the Czech site - looks like he's with M Sport again next year - and not at Citroen. Sordo must be out of a full ride at Citroen to be negotiating with Hyundai - Making a possible Meeke / Kubica team at Citroen more likely. Especially if Mikko goes back to M Sport. So what about Novikov?

What is "MC" and which Czech site please?
:rolleyes: And in any case it was a year old video still on the Home page - the site linked earlier in this thread with the Nasses to pull out story!

[Carlo]

It seems the teams are missing the boat with Paddon...

The fat lady hasn't even started to clear her throat let alone sing.

[Doon]

It seems the teams are missing the boat with Paddon...

That expression is usually associated with missing something good. Paddon isn't that good.

[Rallyper]

It seems the teams are missing the boat with Paddon...

That expression is usually associated with missing something good. Paddon isn't that good.

+1 Teams have at least 8-10 other guys to choose from in first place.

[Mintexmemory]

It seems the teams are missing the boat with Paddon...

That expression is usually associated with missing something good. Paddon isn't that good.

What evidence do you propose to support this assertion?
How about Deutschland where he was faster on the Friday morning than both Kubica and Evans (who weren't hanging about as they were in a fight at the time) in an S2000 compared to RRC and R5 (works cars) for the other guys.
His one WRC outing (with minimal pre-testing) was a drive to order. I actually think he's got it but we may never know.

[Doon]

If he runs out of money soon, then no, we'll never know. He might be fairly quick in WRC2 terms, but he's not ready to go into a WRC team in one of the seats available. As Rallyper says, there are many guys that are already quicker than him.

He basically needs to keep paying the bills for a year or two and prove his speed at the top level before he is considered for a drive by one of the teams.

[AndyRAC]

He needs to change his name to Paddonen...... he'll get a drive and/or finance then..... ;)

[RS]

He needs to change his name to Paddonen...... he'll get a drive and/or finance then..... ;)

Hehe :)

Malcolm's Finn-quota wasn't on the usual level this year but it looks like things will be restored to normal next year.

Seriously though it seems that things aren't quite what they used to be for the Finns, they haven't had a world champion for a while now and I read an interview with Lappi where he said the interest at home is waning a bit as cars have become more expensive. Any truth in that? Where is the next Finnish talent coming from apart from Lappi?

[Wim_Impreza]

Where is the next Finnish talent coming from apart from Lappi?

Jarkko Nikara is a really talented driver, but he lacks money...

[Rallyper]

Yeah, Nikkara and Lappi would be the next Finnish top drivers in WRC beside JH.

[sollitt]

[That expression is usually associated with missing something good. Paddon isn't that good.

+1 Teams have at least 8-10 other guys to choose from in first place.
What absolute utter nonsense by two people who obviously know nothing about what they write.

[Rallyper]

[That expression is usually associated with missing something good. Paddon isn't that good.

+1 Teams have at least 8-10 other guys to choose from in first place.
What absolute utter nonsense by two people who obviously know nothing about what they write.

-1 You know nothing about me.

[N.O.T]

In the current situation the WRC is in Paddon is not worth the risk and the money to have in any team.

[Doon]

Is there anyone who does think Paddon is currently wothy of one of the 8 top seats?

[EightGear]

Is there anyone who does think Paddon is currently wothy of one of the 8 top seats?

I do rate him quite high, to be honest. Top 8 not so sure, but absolutely deserving of a proper shot.

I rate him much higher than Breen, for example.

[stefanvv]

Is there anyone who does think Paddon is currently wothy of one of the 8 top seats?
He is very good driver, but needs some more Rallies with WRC car to tell for sure.

[Co-FIN]

Yeah, Nikkara and Lappi would be the next Finnish top drivers in WRC beside JH.

All upcoming finns lacks of money except Lappi (deal with skoda / even management). Drivers get money for national series and maybe 1 or 2 erc / wrc race but thats it. Timo Jouhki who brought numerous drivers to wrc isint taking anymore drivers and there hasnt shown up man like him.

I believe the era that had loads of finnish drivers at wrc is coming to an end. Mainly because lack of money. Old talents like Ketomaa gets races, but guys in 20-25 situation is very hard.

[Rallyper]

Yeah, Nikkara and Lappi would be the next Finnish top drivers in WRC beside JH.

All upcoming finns lacks of money except Lappi (deal with skoda / even management). Drivers get money for national series and maybe 1 or 2 erc / wrc race but thats it. Timo Jouhki who brought numerous drivers to wrc isint taking anymore drivers and there hasnt shown up man like him.

I believe the era that had loads of finnish drivers at wrc is coming to an end. Mainly because lack of money. Old talents like Ketomaa gets races, but guys in 20-25 situation is very hard.

Statisticly it would be a couple of more company managers who has big interest in rallying in Finland, regarding the public interest even to mention medias in Finland. That compared to swedish ditos.

Let´s hope they show up and saves finlands national sport # 1...

[Toyoda]

Is there anyone who does think Paddon is currently wothy of one of the 8 top seats?

I rate him as high/higher than the likes of Ostberg, Kubica, Novikov, Evans

[Carlo]

Is there anyone who does think Paddon is currently wothy of one of the 8 top seats?

I rate him as high/higher than the likes of Ostberg, Kubica, Novikov, Evans

So do I and I am not being disrespectful to that group of drivers.

[makinen_fan]

http://www.maxrally.com/2013/12/01/coli ... al-attiyah (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/12/01/colin-clark-interviews-nasser-al-attiyah)

Some inside from Nasser into next year

[euskalteam]

Any info about the Ford line-up? according to @The_Rally_Guru The @QMWRT announce driver line up 2014 this friday....

[Talbot]

Hope that line up includes Mikko!
As has been mentioned, but that was before MW has been praising Kubica as no.1 driver.

[big_sw2000]

Another forum BRF, is saying that its just been announced on twitter
Mikko
Kubica
Evans
Made official tomorrow

Steve

[WUff1]

Another forum BRF, is saying that its just been announced on twitter
Mikko
Kubica
Evans
Made official tomorrow

Steve

No more Novikov? i´d think MW needs his money?

By the way, this would be a great line up!

[big_sw2000]

Another forum BRF, is saying that its just been announced on twitter
Mikko
Kubica
Evans
Made official tomorrow

Steve

No more Novikov? i´d think MW needs his money?

By the way, this would be a great line up!

We will see if in fact that is accurate tomorrow

Steve

[kolin]

Novikov do not have the money anymore. Supposed to be problems with sponsors.
Such speculation is on the move. I do not know if this is the correct

[Talbot]

Novikov do not have the money anymore. Supposed to be problems with sponsors.
Such speculation is on the move. I do not know if this is the correct

Can't say I'll shed any tears about Novikov losing his seat.
Especially after that stunt he pulled blocking Meeke in Finland :angryfire

[Carlo]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/sp ... -prospects (http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/sport/9506691/Hayden-Paddon-excited-by-his-rally-prospects)

Interesting

[WUff1]

Novikov do not have the money anymore. Supposed to be problems with sponsors.
Such speculation is on the move. I do not know if this is the correct

Can't say I'll shed any tears about Novikov losing his seat.
Especially after that stunt he pulled blocking Meeke in Finland :angryfire


True!

[sindroms]

Rally Finland ?@RallyFinland
We've been waiting this news for while and now it's official: @MikkoWRC returns to @MSportWRT! #WRC #Gongrats

[HarriK]

Kubica and Lotos Fiesta WRC

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/f ... paign.html (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/robert-kubica-confirms-2014-campaign.html)

and Hirvonen and Evans full season also:
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/f ... -2014.html (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/youth-and-experience-m-sport-confirm-hirvonen-and-evans-for-2014.html)

[Miika]

Hirvonen and Evans full season also:


But with what money? Some of that Quantum money perhaps?


Hirvonen and Evans will run as the official M-Sport World Rally Team, with discussions over a title sponsor still ongoing.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111844

[Mintexmemory]

So where does the Qatar car fit into all this? Is Nasser not going to bother competing in 2014? Or is that the ride that Paddon is hinting at with his current PR

[thuGG]

It'll be interesting to see how Evans and Kubica goes head to head in equal machinery :)

[Rallyper]

Not a bad solution at all for Ford WRT. Maybe Ford GB has seen opportunity for "brand awareness" and increasing marketing shares in GB, having Evans at Ford WRT?

[Jarek Z]

Is it such a good solution guys? One guy that has never won any title and two unexperienced rookies?

[thuGG]

So which champion was available?

[Talbot]

Congrats Mikko and Elfyn. Great line up!
Nice to have some added British interest in top-flight machinery (along with Kris Meeke in the Citroen).

[RS]

Evans is a lucky boy indeed. He has a lot of talent clearly but not many get the opportunity of a full season in a WRCar so early and so easily! Hope it's not "too much too soon"

What is this Quantum money someone spoke of?

Certainly seems they don't have the Qatar title sponsorship anymore.

[Jarek Z]

So which champion was available?

Meeke? Mikkelsen?

Also Neuville, although not a champion, would probably be better than Evans, Kubica and Hirvonen.

But I wish all of them good luck!!!

[thuGG]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?

[stefanvv]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?
IRC of course, but in that respect Kubica is also a champion - WRC2

[Mintexmemory]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?
IRC ;) (second division but winners none the less)

Neuville was never available as Hyundai had him a long time ago, Hanninen too
Leaving Kopecky as the only currently driving champ without a WRC ride (excluding minor WRC categories and Asia-Pacific)

[thuGG]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?
IRC of course, but in that respect Kubica is also a champion - WRC2

Oh, now I get it. So there is much inconsistency in Jarek Z logic, because they just hired a champion.

[big_sw2000]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?

And when were they available. Meeke is contracted to PSA. Mikkelson to VW

Steve

[kober]

and Hirvonen and Evans full season also:
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/f ... -2014.html (http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/youth-and-experience-m-sport-confirm-hirvonen-and-evans-for-2014.html)
Not a word about Qatar in the press release. Is this the end to Qatar WRT?

[Talbot]

So which champion was available?

Also Neuville, although not a champion, would probably be better than Evans, Kubica and Hirvonen.



I don't doubt Neuville would've been offered another term at Ford, but he was always after a factory drive. So the Hyundai move suits him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

About time Brits were back in the WRC..

Evans deserves his chance and I believe he can compete at this level once he has some more experience.

Kubica also has proper speed and needs to be consistent to challenge.

Also welcome home Mikko... you never looked right at Citroen.. :)

[Allyc85]

And here was me thinking I would be happy to see Elfyn get a handful of WRC drives this season. But to see him get the full gig is just fantastic news :D :D

[Talbot]

About time Brits were back in the WRC..

Also welcome home Mikko... you never looked right at Citroen.. :)

Agreed! A move to a Gallic team hasn't necessarilly been good for non-French drivers (McRae, Burns etc).

Very very pleased to see Mikko back in a Ford, and I hope he wins the drivers title in 2014. OK, I'm being a bit sentimental, but he's been the bridesmaid too many times now!

[Jarek Z]

Meeke and Mikkelsen are champions, when?
IRC of course, but in that respect Kubica is also a champion - WRC2

Oh, now I get it. So there is much inconsistency in Jarek Z logic, because they just hired a champion.

I admit there is some inconsistency in my comment :) But you also have to admit that the level of competition in WRC2 is much lower than in ERC or IRC. IRC title means much more in my opinion.

But still I wish the Ford team sincere good luck! Especially to Robert! :)

[PLuto]

I admit there is some inconsistency in my comment :) But you also have to admit that the level of competition in WRC2 is much lower than in ERC or IRC. IRC title means much more in my opinion.

But still I wish the Ford team sincere good luck! Especially to Robert! :)

I agree with Jarek. Look at last two WRC2 winners (Breen and Kubica) - till now they didnt won any event in ERC/IRC...

[COD]

About time Brits were back in the WRC..

Also welcome home Mikko... you never looked right at Citroen.. :)

Agreed! A move to a Gallic team hasn't necessarilly been good for non-French drivers (McRae, Burns etc).
w!

One just needs to be good enough, like One Mr. Grönholm :stareup:

[A FONDO]

About time Brits were back in the WRC..

Also welcome home Mikko... you never looked right at Citroen.. :)

Agreed! A move to a Gallic team hasn't necessarilly been good for non-French drivers (McRae, Burns etc).
w!

One just needs to be good enough, like One Mr. Grönholm :stareup:
true

[pantealex]

iRally:
Robert Kubica team will be known as "RK M-Sport World Rally Team"


btw.
Entrant for Neuville and Hänninen in Sweden is Hyundai Motorsport (not Hyundai Shell World Rally Team)

[Nornbugger]

About time Brits were back in the WRC..

Also welcome home Mikko... you never looked right at Citroen.. :)

Agreed! A move to a Gallic team hasn't necessarilly been good for non-French drivers (McRae, Burns etc).
w!

One just needs to be good enough, like One Mr. Grönholm :stareup:


Would that be the same Mr Gronholm that finished behind Burns in 03 dispite Burns being ill?

[Rallyper]

Burnsie was as good as Bosse, no doubt.

[Nornbugger]

Burnsie was as good as Bosse, no doubt.


agreed 100%, some of the kids round here only know the stats of who won what and dont have a clue how it all happened

[PLuto]

Burnsie was as good as Bosse, no doubt.


agreed 100%, some of the kids round here only know the stats of who won what and dont have a clue how it all happened

I dont agree. Bosse was faster that Burns. Burns was complex driver with perfect strategy and ballance between "to be in finish" and "speed". But Bosse was faster driver...

[Wim_Impreza]

I admit there is some inconsistency in my comment :) But you also have to admit that the level of competition in WRC2 is much lower than in ERC or IRC. IRC title means much more in my opinion.

But still I wish the Ford team sincere good luck! Especially to Robert! :)

I agree with Jarek. Look at last two WRC2 winners (Breen and Kubica) - till now they didnt won any event in ERC/IRC...

Completely agree.

I think it is to early for Evans to drive a full WRC season in a WRC car and Hirvonen already had too many chances. Good luck to Kubica.

[litifeta]

It looks like a good year coming. Mikko did so much better in the Ford. And I believe Sordo and TM will keep Ogier honest. Mikko in the Ford used to apply a lot of pressure to Loeb, and I hope he can do the same for Ogier. Ogier has not really had anyone to test his mettle this year.

[urabus-denoS2000]

I am very excited about M-Sport's lineup. I really hope Mikko hasn't lost it, and that he can be a genuine contender to Ogier& Neuville this season. The Fiesta is a proven fast car, and Mikko was fast in it. And, call me overly optimistic, but I think Kubica will win at least one rally this year :)

[er88]

Decent lineup- evans is a lucky lucky boy getting full seat - wow, ... :o Btw not trying to be all doom and gloom but i feel Kubica is overated by some. He has won wrc2 against against a bunch of nobodies, did sweet feck all in ERC which is harder championship than wrc2 aswell. In ERC on few tarmac founds he did show really good pace till he retired, but even still this was by far the weekest IRC/ERC we have seen in a while too. The fact Kopecky walked the championship proves that. However it is Robert's first few years in rally so he has good potential but imo, people expecting him to be near the top are very optimistic to say the least. Id really love to be proved wrong though :). Wish both drivers a good 2014, hopefully alongside a rejuvenated Mikko!

[thuGG]

He has won wrc2 against against a bunch of nobodies...
This forum is strange, it let me to believe that Lappi, Evans, Paddon were actually pretty highly rated, now it turns out that they are bunch of nobodies.

[Mirek]

Lappi did only two events (1 victory by several minutes, 1 crash from 1st place). Paddon not much more. It's same like counting every driver who once-twice appeared in IRC/ERC and telling how crazy good the championship was.

Sad thing is that system of WRC2 makes any comparison based on season results pretty useless. How many times the first two drivers of overall standings really met on stages? Once, twice? Even their fight for the title was indirect when each of them started in different round (Kubica and Al Kuwari).

[thuGG]

I'm not saying the championship challange was tough, but it wasn't that he competed only with himself. He competed with highly rated guys and on most occasions was ahead of them. And some people act like he only fought Al Kuwari.

[Carlo]

It will be interesting to observe how the new drivers adjust their style to suit the WRC cars. The comment passed back to me was that while the S2000 Skoda was like a go-kart to drive, the WRC car with it's far greater suspension travel was more like a motocross bike on steroids.

I think that 2014 is going to be an interesting season as with new cars and drivers in the championship along with drivers changing teams, no one can state with absolute certainty what the outcome will be.

[rallyfun]

Decent lineup- evans is a lucky lucky boy getting full seat - wow, ... :o Btw not trying to be all doom and gloom but i feel Kubica is overated by some. He has won wrc2 against against a bunch of nobodies, did sweet feck all in ERC which is harder championship than wrc2 aswell. In ERC on few tarmac founds he did show really good pace till he retired, but even still this was by far the weekest IRC/ERC we have seen in a while too. The fact Kopecky walked the championship proves that. However it is Robert's first few years in rally so he has good potential but imo, people expecting him to be near the top are very optimistic to say the least. Id really love to be proved wrong though :). Wish both drivers a good 2014, hopefully alongside a rejuvenated Mikko!
You must be very lazy ignorant, I don't want to repeat same things again and again about Kubica's lack of everything related to rallies,that's been said thousand times, just compare stage times for Kubica this season and Ogier last season in Skoda.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The one thing Kubica has is real speed ... that's what is important, the rest can be learned or gained with experience ...

[N.O.T]

The one thing Kubica has is real speed ... that's what is important, the rest can be learned or gained with experience ...

Latvala disagrees with you.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

[quote="Fast Eddie WRC":3favvife]The one thing Kubica has is real speed ... that's what is important, the rest can be learned or gained with experience ...

Latvala disagrees with you.[/quote:3favvife]

I said CAN be learned / experienced, not WILL be ...

You cant learn speed.

[RS]

I am very excited about M-Sport's lineup. I really hope Mikko hasn't lost it, and that he can be a genuine contender to Ogier& Neuville this season. The Fiesta is a proven fast car, and Mikko was fast in it.

I think Mikko will show a better performance back in the Ford but I don't believe he can challenge Ogier (or Neuville in an equal car)

One or more win would be a great achievement.

[Rallyper]

It´s very much think or can or will, even me have quoted predictions for next year, but now we have to wait and see. For sure, and that can be truly said, next year will be exciting for at least first two rounds, then we´ll see what has happened...

[ThomasS]

Paddon will be back with M-Sport for a bunch of rounds no doubt. He'll be in Nassers Car when he's off doing other things , funding his own drive or both.

[noel157]

Paddon will be back with M-Sport for a bunch of rounds no doubt. He'll be in Nassers Car when he's off doing other things , funding his own drive or both.

Is Nasser/Qatar still involved with M-Sport?

[Mirek]

Was this photo here? That looks like proper facelifted WRC not a mock up made of R5. Or? At least the front wheel arches are different than R5.

https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1461061_601112049943602_987612966_n.jpg

[ThomasS]

Paddon will be back with M-Sport for a bunch of rounds no doubt. He'll be in Nassers Car when he's off doing other things , funding his own drive or both.

Is Nasser/Qatar still involved with M-Sport?

no idea , I'm guessing

[makinen_fan]

Was this photo here? That looks like proper facelifted WRC not a mock up made of R5. Or? At least the front wheel arches are different than R5.

It was posted in Testing thread couple of days ago.

[Andre Oliveira]

Old car with "implant". This car was the car of WRC Fafe Sprint f.e.: http://ewrc-results.com/carinfo.php?cid ... -WRC-/-RRC (http://ewrc-results.com/carinfo.php?cid=13&car=275&t=Ford-Fiesta-RS-WRC-/-RRC)

[SubaruNorway]

The front bumper is different than the R5 too so it looks like they actually bothered this time, they put stickers on the focus to make the headlights "faceliftet" :p
Was this photo here? That looks like proper facelifted WRC not a mock up made of R5. Or? At least the front wheel arches are different than R5.

https://scontent-a-mxp.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1461061_601112049943602_987612966_n.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

The front bumper is different than the R5 too so it looks like they actually bothered this time, they put stickers on the focus to make the headlights "faceliftet" :p

Exactly.

[focus206]

Paddon will be back with M-Sport for a bunch of rounds no doubt. He'll be in Nassers Car when he's off doing other things , funding his own drive or both.

Is Nasser/Qatar still involved with M-Sport?

no idea , I'm guessing
I read that Nasser could run in WRC2 with a Fiesta R5, but nothing confirmed yet

[A FONDO]

I read he wants full MERC, 5 WRC and some global rallycross. Car is not confirmed, but logically what else than Ford could it be?

[the sniper]

Does anybody get the feeling that we could see more financial input from Ford next year? What with Nasser/Qatar money unconfirmed, Novikov and his money disappearing and both Hirvonen and Evans presumably taking a salary rather than bringing big money, surely M-Sport have got some pretty solid funding lined up?

Looking at that facelifted Fiesta, if it is indeed WRC spec, with nothing but its Ford decals, I can't help but wonder if they'll be more involved as a sponsor in 2014. Surely only Ford gain from the car receiving this facelift? If it's not Ford of Europe, does anybody know what kind of sponsorship budget Ford of Britain might have to play with?

[Rallyper]

Does anybody get the feeling that we could see more financial input from Ford next year? What with Nasser/Qatar money unconfirmed, Novikov and his money disappearing and both Hirvonen and Evans presumably taking a salary rather than bringing big money, surely M-Sport have got some pretty solid funding lined up?

Looking at that facelifted Fiesta, if it is indeed WRC spec, with nothing but its Ford decals, I can't help but wonder if they'll be more involved as a sponsor in 2014. Surely only Ford gain from the car receiving this facelift? If it's not Ford of Europe, does anybody know what kind of sponsorship budget Ford of Britain might have to play with?

Yes, that was my thought too. Just speculation, but it seems maybe Ford can see marketing values in renewing sponsorship for MSport, maybe to begin with, just to ensure they can afford decent driver lineup, without screaming out they´re on the train again.

[ThomasS]

[/quote]I read that Nasser could run in WRC2 with a Fiesta R5, but nothing confirmed yet[/quote]

It could be R5 for Paddon also but he would be aiming higher I'm sure. My thoughts are we'll also see him embedded in the team in a support role . Gravel crew etc.

[COD]

Mikko will Never be a winner. Happy though that M-sport is the only team to really employ a young talent, sceptical though if Evans is a real talent. I hope I'm wrong there. It will interesting to see the livery of M-sport machine. I doubt either of the drivers are paid salary by M-sport, their drives are free without salary is my prediction, if even that. So where is the money coming from? Maybe previous wins finally invested to season of staying in WRC?

[Mintexmemory]

read that Nasser could run in WRC2 with a Fiesta R5, but nothing confirmed yet

Paddon's NZ PR has been saying he expects 7-8 WRC events and will do recce on all the rallies he isn't competing in.

[ThomasS]

He'll have other options I'm sure but M-sport seems to be a logical home for him. He acquitted himself well in Spain and I suspect he gets on well with M-Sport as a personality.
Since he's scrapped together money from sponsors in NZ I can't imagine him wanting to drive R5 but we'll see. I can't see why Nasser would want to drive an R5 in WRC either ?

[RS]

Given that Qatar weren't announced as a title sponsor for next year, I assume their logos will only appear on Nasser's car, or if they are on the main team they will be smaller than this year.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Or maybe they will be the same size as they were this year and will appear on all if the cars, but they were not announced at the driver launch because they have not yet come to an agreement with M-Sport.

[Jarek Z]

It will interesting to see the livery of M-sport machine.

You are right, COD. It is very interesting to know how you managed to get the job at the factory team?! :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbW3Kc6CIAEYnAt.jpg:large

[Andre Oliveira]

Ford Fiesta RS34 :eek:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbn-VJdIIAE70XZ.jpg

https://twitter.com/JasonNRG/status/412 ... 36/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/JasonNRG/status/412640480296718336/photo/1)

[br21]

Fiesta with Focus WRC turbo, 34mm restrictor, etc.

[RS]

Maybe M-Sport should concentrate on the job at hand rather than poncing around with a dozen different versions which are irrelevant for international competition :rolleyes:

[makinen_fan]

M-Sport is business first of all and have to make money. Malcolm potentially sees the local championships especially since new holomogation is expected from next year and the current cars will be obsolete for WRC anyway.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

And given that Ford only ever commit the bare minimum in funds, M-Sport have to get their revenue from somewhere. There's a reason why a dozen Fiestas compete over the course of a season, but there are only ever three or four DS3s.

[Mirek]

Was there a single customer for these non-FIA variants?

[COD]

It will interesting to see the livery of M-sport machine.

You are right, COD. It is very interesting to know how you managed to get the job at the factory team?! :D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbW3Kc6CIAEYnAt.jpg:large

They are so eager to get the best, but salary negotiations are still ongoing so I deny to have signed anything yet. Does Lotos really have enough money to hire me :laugh:

[makinen_fan]

Was there a single customer for these non-FIA variants?

Seems M-Sport hold customer days to promote their new creations. Euan Thornburn (BTRDA champion) send this in fb:
Brilliant day at Msport testing yesterday! Was very impressed with the New Fiesta R5+ and it was a dream bonus getting the opportunity to drive the WRC RS34! Massive thank you to John Steele and Msport. The future is bright...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 4269_n.jpg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1001288_611755862194004_1161044269_n.jpg)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport should be given our gratitude for fighting on and raising the backing from new sponsors, enabling us to see so many WRC machines in the 2013 Championship...

If they had pulled out when Ford officially withdrew the series would have been dead. :burn:

[Rallyper]

M-Sport should be given our gratitude for fighting on and raising the backing from new sponsors, enabling us to see so many WRC machines in the 2013 Championship...

If they had pulled out when Ford officially withdrew the series would have been dead. :burn:

+10

[N.O.T]

M-Sport should be given our gratitude for fighting on and raising the backing from new sponsors, enabling us to see so many WRC machines in the 2013 Championship...

If they had pulled out when Ford officially withdrew the series would have been dead. :burn:

well they did not pull out because there were drivers who payed for their drives... M-sport is a business and in business if you do not make money you do not make sense... they stayed because someone paid not because of good will.

[OnlyRally]

[quote="Fast Eddie WRC":2h7w2hw9]M-Sport should be given our gratitude for fighting on and raising the backing from new sponsors, enabling us to see so many WRC machines in the 2013 Championship...

If they had pulled out when Ford officially withdrew the series would have been dead. :burn:

well they did not pull out because there were drivers who payed for their drives... M-sport is a business and in business if you do not make money you do not make sense... they stayed because someone paid not because of good will.[/quote:2h7w2hw9]
+10

[Rallyper]

No one said they did go on for good will reasons, did they? Just barely noticed they did go on benefitting the WRC.

[pantealex]

Maybe Pirelli with Ford ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm sure M-Sport could find easier ways to make money than WRC...

They have a passion for rally and that is why they carry on.

BTW, where is all the cash coming from in 2014 to give Evans his chance ??

[Eli]

http://www.acm.mc/documents/4/LISTE%20D ... IORITE.pdf (http://www.acm.mc/documents/4/LISTE%20DES%20ENGAGES%20PAR%20LISTE%20DE%20PRIORIT E.pdf)
there is no mentioning of Qatar..seems like they left M-Sport alone.

[COD]

http://www.acm.mc/documents/4/LISTE%20DES%20ENGAGES%20PAR%20LISTE%20DE%20PRIORIT E.pdf
there is no mentioning of Qatar..seems like they left M-Sport alone.

This would suggest, that main sponsor still to be announced. So could be Qatar as well as anything else

http://www.fia.com/2014-fia-wrc-manufac ... t-entrants (http://www.fia.com/2014-fia-wrc-manufacturers-list-entrants)

[Eli]

we'll have to wait and see

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Yeah, there's still a month until the rally. All the team name on that entry list shows is what was on the paperwork M-Sport submitted. And they could have submitted it a month ago, leaving them even more time to secure a sponsor, whoever it may be.