M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I guess that's the price we have to pay for the Ford Performance backing. Ford USA are so desperate to have him compete somewhere. I wonder why. He's an excellent stuntman. Just leave it at that, it's fine as it is.
I rather seeing Ken using Fiesta WRC for his next Gymkhana instead..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Aquagen]

Well I see it similar in the way that Kimi and Ken are popular characters and professionals in driving cars fast but not rallying. Kimi's expertise is more in competition but Ken's expertise is closer to rallying than Kimi's.As I remember, Ken is not so fast, and Kimi yes. Kimi and Robert wanted to be fast in rallying. More or less.


Is Petter on your list Petter Solberg? If it is, I don't see the logic...For this moment he is rallycross driver. For sure we remember him as a rallychampion and a very popular person. Just want to see him back to WRC :)

[itix]

I don't mind him being there. If he brings media and attention to rallying and make it more popular, why not? He's not causing any harm to non mechanical components by being there.

Rallying is after all just another marketing tool in the grand scheme of things so anything non destructive that helps it float is welcome.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seeing Ford pulled the deal on his Hoonigan RX team I cant dislike him doing some WRC rallies.

All publicity is good and maybe when his fans see him beaten out of sight they might realise how good WRC driver's are and follow the series.

[Myrvold]

Also, it's not like he would take a seat from some young talented driver either, it will be an additional car. All good.

[ESTR]

Also, it's not like he would take a seat from some young talented driver either, it will be an additional car. All good.

Well, now with All Live there will be always All "Block" Live... For the most of stages 😂

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So with Monte Carlo finished, what do we think of Bouffier's performance as temporary 3rd driver... could anyone else who is available have done any better ?

[steve.mandzij]

So with Monte Carlo finished, what do we think of Bouffier's performance as temporary 3rd driver... could anyone else who is available have done any better ?Good question. I reckon that maaaaaybe Camilli could have done a bit better? Bouffier himself could have done better had he had more test time and his regular co driver by his side.

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[ESTR]

Don't bet on that. He can't even finish a rally in R5 car. Almost anywhere...

[Andre Oliveira]

I like Bryan. With worst conditions he sure can did better. Don't forget: no WRC in recent past. Changing of Co-Driver on start of rally. For me he did a good job.

[Ucci]

I like Bryan. With worst conditions he sure can did better. Don't forget: no WRC in recent past. Changing of Co-Driver on start of rally. For me he did a good job.
Agree mate. But it also shows that the step from R5 to WRC17 is much demanding compare to WRC16.

[AnttiL]

Hard to say. Camilli and Suninen would have been faster, but probably would have also crashed like they did with their R5 cars. But did Bouffier help the team? He couldn't score any manufacturer points and couldn't keep Neuville behind. Also, would it have been an investment for the future to put Suninen in the WRC car? Let's see how Bouffier does on TDC

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27073192_2011153848914032_1619966059929161471_n.jp g?oh=a4d3aab93c01cace6b09b236d4880f69&oe=5B1912DB
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27540404_2011154595580624_231526219834386940_n.jpg ?oh=93f65bc9913a5c874b31795b2b17ac94&oe=5AE20DFC
https://scontent.fopo2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/27067584_2011154655580618_5937995736789261802_n.jp g?oh=3fe0c2747ec79a844158d6a94cebf37c&oe=5B19D6B7

[the sniper]

Hard to say. Camilli and Suninen would have been faster, but probably would have also crashed like they did with their R5 cars. But did Bouffier help the team? He couldn't score any manufacturer points and couldn't keep Neuville behind. Also, would it have been an investment for the future to put Suninen in the WRC car? Let's see how Bouffier does on TDC

He helped them by presumably providing more money for the drive than Camilli or Suninen could and got to the finish without breaking the car, which they probably wouldn't have done.

[Andre Oliveira]

Facebook likes:

Sébastien Ogier 343.990 likes
Ken Block 6.053.347 likes

[Franky]

Facebook likes:

Sébastien Ogier 343.990 likes
Ken Block 6.053.347 likes

And?

[Andre Oliveira]

Block can do more to WRC than some fans believe. Mainly in USA market.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ok so I know he's gone with Citroen now (for Sweden), but Mads Ostberg theoretically could have driven Monte. He was 4th in 2016 and has experience with the 2017 Fiesta.

But Bouffier did ok and anyway Ogier and Evans both finished so took the Manu points.

[mArvAlcao17]

Don't bet on that. He can't even finish a rally in R5 car. Almost anywhere...

Well Camilli were only took Rally2 once last season, and his DNF was mechanical

[er88]

Would Block be faster and finish ahead of Sheikh Khalid? I think he'd be faster but also prone to more accidents, like he was the last time when he tried the WRC? Difficult to remember how bad he was though off the top of my head

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[Watson]

Good question. I reckon that maaaaaybe Camilli could have done a bit better? Bouffier himself could have done better had he had more test time and his regular co driver by his side.

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I guess if the seat was given to Camilli or especially Suninen they would have been told to take it very easy. As Anttil mentioned it would have been good for Suninen to gain WRC Monte experience but then I guess by taking it easy he would've had similar speed to Bouffier.

So after all I guess Bouffier was the right choice considering they also earned a buck or two.

I still hope they will fill Suninen's calender at least with R5 starts. Especially in Corsica, he needs more experience on Asphalt. Maybe let him do some non-WRC asphalt rallies with the R5 too.

[Myrvold]

Good question. I reckon that maaaaaybe Camilli could have done a bit better? Bouffier himself could have done better had he had more test time and his regular co driver by his side.


Xavier Panseri is as close to regular co-driver you get for Bouffier I think. So after all, he did end up with the co-driver he's done the majority of events with, but without any actual preparation

[RS]

Xavier Panseri is as close to regular co-driver you get for Bouffier I think. So after all, he did end up with the co-driver he's done the majority of events with, but without any actual preparation

Bryan usually seems to get his best results with Panseri by his side, but he had to use someone else notes, unless he re-wrote them all?

I think they did ok considering they had one day in the car compared to probably a hundred+ for the other guys.

[seb_sh]

Bryan usually seems to get his best results with Panseri by his side, but he had to use someone else notes, unless he re-wrote them all?

I think they did ok considering they had one day in the car compared to probably a hundred+ for the other guys.

He stayed up and rewrote everything in his style as far as I know.

[macebig]

Looks like Block is really serious about running a WRC event with the Fiesta WRC. Which one remains to be seen. My money will be on Finland for the jumps. But, whatever event he runs, he will probably be entered as HRD and run separately from the main Ford/M Sport trio.

[ESTR]

Looks like Block is really serious about running a WRC event with the Fiesta WRC. Which one remains to be seen. My money will be on Finland for the jumps. But, whatever event he runs, he will probably be entered as HRD and run separately from the main Ford/M Sport trio.

On mars.

[AnttiL]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/serderidis-steps-up-to-fiesta-wrc-for-germany-and-australia

Serderidis in Deutschland and Australia

I re-checked and it's not Aprils' Fools Day :confused:

[EstWRC]

what the ?

[Allez Andruet]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/serderidis-steps-up-to-fiesta-wrc-for-germany-and-australia

Serderidis in Deutschland and Australia

I re-checked and it's not Aprils' Fools Day :confused:

But it can't be that he'd be driving the third car, can it?

[AnttiL]

But it can't be that he'd be driving the third car, can it?

These are two of the rallies that Suninen and Bouffier aren't driving. Better to secure at least the last manu points than just go with two cars?

[Allez Andruet]

These are two of the rallies that Suninen and Bouffier aren't driving. Better to secure at least the last manu points than just go with two cars?

But still... this makes Al-Qassimi in a C3 look like Schumacher in Benetton.

[mArvAlcao17]

Personally i wish Camilli do at least one rally on 2017 car. He tested the car at the end of 2016 yet doesn't drive that ever since

[Tarmop]

So Block in Argentina then?

[AnttiL]

But still... this makes Al-Qassimi in a C3 look like Schumacher in Benetton.

or Armin Kremer...

[Simmi]

If M-Sport are right in the manufacturers title fight entering the second half of the year then I'm sure things could change regarding points-scoring cars and drivers.

[Watson]

If M-Sport are right in the manufacturers title fight entering the second half of the year then I'm sure things could change regarding points-scoring cars and drivers.

The trouble is who are they going to call upon? Camilli I guess could do a job in Germany but he is very incosistant. Suninen is already booked for all the rallies he is likely to do well in. Apart from that there are only youngsters and old drivers left. The latter have no experience in the car and the former have neither experience in the car nor the events.

If it was up to me they would have put Suninen in all the rallies. My hope is that he'll be the pemanent third driver next season. I suppose he'll be ready by then if he has a decent season this year.

[Watson]

I just checked out the pictures of the livery. At least it looks nice. But I have noticed that there is no Ford Performance stickers at all, opposed to Bouffiers. Also, it has start number 10 on it, wouldn't it be number 3 if it was a point scoring car? Or did they put #10 for a different reason? 10 would be Meeke's number anyway.

[AnttiL]

Also, no MS-RT decals like Bouffier, but a big M-Sport logo.

[AnttiL]

Serderidis’ deal is a straight customer operation and he will not be running as one of the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team members in the same way Bryan Bouffier did at last week’s Monte Carlo Rally and Teemu Suninen will for the majority of the season.

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/wrc-trophy-champion-gets-m-sport-chance/

[Watson]

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/wrc-trophy-champion-gets-m-sport-chance/
Oh there we go. So Camilli or Suninen might still be a go in Germany and Australia.

[Andre Oliveira]

Same as Kremer last season.

[macebig]

It was funny seeing some of you panic at the thought of Serderidis as No3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also, no MS-RT decals like Bouffier, but a big M-Sport logo.

On the subject.. the latest M-Sport Supporters Club email I received is using this logo:

https://i.imgur.com/NvxC3v4.jpg

[macebig]

That's the official logo for this year. The service park tents in RMC had them.

[ESTR]

But still... this makes Al-Qassimi in a C3 look like Schumacher in Benetton.

Why not. He was crowned 2017 WRC Trophy Champion

[EightGear]

Why not. He was crowned 2017 WRC Trophy Champion
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[racerx1979]

Block will most likely be a 4th car. The budget he brings in with Monster is ridiculous. Not sure how that works with Red Bull sponsoring Seb and Evans, but I'm sure Block would do something like Mads...

[AnttiL]

Block will most likely be a 4th car. The budget he brings in with Monster is ridiculous. Not sure how that works with Red Bull sponsoring Seb and Evans, but I'm sure Block would do something like Mads...

Buy his own car and use his own mechanics? I doubt that..

[macebig]

Whichever event Block enters, he will be there with his team (Hoonigan Racing Division), separately from the main team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In 2017 it was only Ogier's car that was RB sponsored and was probably just an extension of his person sponsorship. With Red Bull sponsoring both the main cars in 2018 and also the R5's of Sunnien and Camilli it seems that they have become more of an official team sponsor this year.

Ford Performance's facilities are now at M-Sport's disposal and it looks like a lot of upgrades to the WRC Fiesta will be coming soon. This is why Ogier needed Ford to 'come back', as the WRC Fiesta was basically running unchanged throughout 2017 while the other factory teams were already making changes.

[Tarmop]

They are all RB athletes now. Others don`t use the livery (Bouffier for example).
https://www.redbull.com/us-en/athlete/teemu-suninen-rally

[ESTR]

In 2017 it was only Ogier's car that was RB sponsored and was probably just an extension of his person sponsorship. With Red Bull sponsoring both the main cars in 2018 and also the R5's of Sunnien and Camilli it seems that they have become more of an official team sponsor this year.

Ford Performance's facilities are now at M-Sport's disposal and it looks like a lot of upgrades to the WRC Fiesta will be coming soon. This is why Ogier needed Ford to 'come back', as the WRC Fiesta was basically running unchanged throughout 2017 while the other factory teams were already making changes.

M-Sport build proper machine from the start, others start with garbage and then make upgrades to match it's rival

[Tarmop]

They all did, even Citroen, which is/ was not so universal unfortunately. M-sport made a rugid and universal car and gave it into the hands of capable drivers.

[T16]

In 2017 it was only Ogier's car that was RB sponsored and was probably just an extension of his person sponsorship. With Red Bull sponsoring both the main cars in 2018 and also the R5's of Sunnien and Camilli it seems that they have become more of an official team sponsor this year.

Ford Performance's facilities are now at M-Sport's disposal and it looks like a lot of upgrades to the WRC Fiesta will be coming soon. This is why Ogier needed Ford to 'come back', as the WRC Fiesta was basically running unchanged throughout 2017 while the other factory teams were already making changes.

What experience and changes do you think Ford performance will bring to M-Sport? To be honest, I would maybe think they can possibly do something with the engine, but I can't see how they can bring technical assistance to the rest of the car. M-Sport are doing an incredible job and they have basically funded the Fiesta development through the sales of customer cars.

The way I see it, is that they are the experts, not ford performance.

Like I said, possibly the engine (as in Ford can blow as many up as they want testing and developing), but M-Sport shouldn't be underestimated, Eddie, they are the ones with the knowledge in this situation.

Ford will probably just help from a budget point of view and make it 'look' like they are responsible for some additional development, whereas it's probably their cash, not their technical input.

Just my opinion, but I can't see how they could just come into the WRC blind and 'bring' all this new technology. And don't forget, Ford trusted M-Sport to run the whole show when they were an official manufacturer...

[Watson]

What experience and changes do you think Ford performance will bring to M-Sport? To be honest, I would maybe think they can possibly do something with the engine, but I can't see how they can bring technical assistance to the rest of the car. M-Sport are doing an incredible job and they have basically funded the Fiesta development through the sales of customer cars.

The way I see it, is that they are the experts, not ford performance.

Like I said, possibly the engine (as in Ford can blow as many up as they want testing and developing), but M-Sport shouldn't be underestimated, Eddie, they are the ones with the knowledge in this situation.

Ford will probably just help from a budget point of view and make it 'look' like they are responsible for some additional development, whereas it's probably their cash, not their technical input.

Just my opinion, but I can't see how they could just come into the WRC blind and 'bring' all this new technology. And don't forget, Ford trusted M-Sport to run the whole show when they were an official manufacturer...

Ford Performance have a lot of research facilities a their disposal such as windtunnels and computer simulations, currently mostly used for track car engineering (Ford GT WEC). I'm pretty sure the M-Sport boys know what they can make good use of and what is irrelevant to developping a rally car. They currently have the best of both worlds. But as all team managers have alredy stated, progress will not be dramatic. Everyone but Citroen already has a strong package and is close to what the regulations allow. Each team is basically just looking to eliminate their respective weeknesses.

[AnttiL]

I think Ford Performance mostly brought the aero development side in addition to supplying budget, this was stated in an interview.

[T16]

I think Ford Performance mostly brought the aero development side in addition to supplying budget, this was stated in an interview.

So not much (technical) then... interesting to see how the aero progresses.

Front of the car is the same, from what I can see and they have had a few months at least to make changes.

Haven’t had a good look at the rear spoiler, so I’m not sure if it’s any different.

[Essaj]

So not much (technical) then... interesting to see how the aero progresses.

Front of the car is the same, from what I can see and they have had a few months at least to make changes.

Haven’t had a good look at the rear spoiler, so I’m not sure if it’s any different.

Pretty sure that it was also stated that no aero changes would happen in first few races

[Andre Oliveira]

Readed that Fiesta 2018 only in Mexico

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wilson and Ogier have both made it clear that Ford Performance will help to improve and develop the Fiesta. It's not a case of Ford just providing money for M-Sport to do it. FP have a huge amount of technical facilities and expertise and a lot is transferable to a rally car.

[T16]

Wilson and Ogier have both made it clear that Ford Performance will help to improve and develop the Fiesta. It's not a case of Ford just providing money for M-Sport to do it. FP have a huge amount of technical facilities and expertise and a lot is transferable to a rally car.

Like I said above, I think you are underestimating M-Sport, Eddie. I'm not entirely convinced that Ford's performance department does have that many skills that M-Sport doesn't already have.

Wilson and Ogier, I guess, will have to say that Ford are contributing from a technical POV, but M-sport created the car as it is and I think Ford could learn from them, not the other way around.

Maybe I see Ford Performance as more of a sponsor, rather than a development partner.

Still a win-win situation for both parties.

Not entirely sure, but what contribution do Toyota make to the development of the Yaris? (I don't think it's a great deal) and that car has seen great success, considering it's age and the short history of Makkinen's operation, which runs it.

I guess time will tell though and it will become more apparent, one way or the other as the season unfolds.

Eddie, on another note; any idea where I can find spectator info for the Malcolm Wilson rally? Cheers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Underestimating M-Sport is the last thing I'm doing, especially after what they achieved last year. As a long-time supporter I'm well aware of their qualities.

But if Ogier says he needs Ford (Performance) to keep developing the car and make him stay then thats good enough for me.

[Oliverk]

February 24th Estonia has it's Independence day. Every year presidents gives out orders for notable people. This year one of the recipients is Malcolm Wilson

Maarjamaa Cross V class
Malcolm Irving Wilson


Estonian motorsport supporter, United Kingdom
Malcolm Wilson has played an important part in Estonian motorsport. He helped Markko Märtin as well
Ott Tänäk to rally world stars. Giving the opportunity to thousands
Estonians to spectate alongside rally tracks around the world
and hundreds of thousands Estonians to follow
their achievements through the media.
http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/president-kersti-kaljulaid-tunnustas-teenetemarkidega-eesti-eredaimaid-teenaitajaid?id=81008665

[EstWRC]

After Mexico, a Fiesta WRC will join the Ford Performance workshops in the USA to work on the aero and the engine. For Wilson, the car did not suffer a big évol for this start of the season, progress will be visible in the second part of the year.


https://twitter.com/Traxx_WiF/status/962257538497605632

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford Performance website now doing WRC preview:
http://performance.ford.com/series/rally/news/articles/rally/2018/02/ready-for-sweden.html

[PLuto]

Maybe Ford Performance involvement should be main reason why WRC is thinking about adding rally in Canada?

[Watson]

https://twitter.com/Ovale_Bleu/status/963492801773219841?s=20

https://twitter.com/SVrally/status/963468277350588418?s=20

When was the last time Ford brought three cars with identical liveries to a WRC event?

[T16]

https://twitter.com/Ovale_Bleu/status/963492801773219841?s=20

https://twitter.com/SVrally/status/963468277350588418?s=20

When was the last time Ford brought three cars with identical liveries to a WRC event?

They're still not identical...

[Watson]

They're still not identical...

Bean counter. The basic livery is identical. It's just a couple of different sponsors on Suninen's car.

[T16]

Bean counter. The basic livery is identical. It's just a couple of different sponsors on Suninen's car.

ha ha... wasn't being pedantic... genuinely didn't know if you had spotted the rear qtr panel decals..

[macebig]

2013 Wales for Ostberg/ Novikov and Neuville under the Qatar colours.

[Norm75]

https://twitter.com/Ovale_Bleu/status/963492801773219841?s=20

https://twitter.com/SVrally/status/963468277350588418?s=20

When was the last time Ford brought three cars with identical liveries to a WRC event?
Don't fancy citroens chances much with those tyres ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2013 Wales for Ostberg/ Novikov and Neuville under the Qatar colours.

Ugh, dont remind me ! ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shockingly unfortunate Rally Sweden and now MSport are playing catch-up.

I think my prediction of no chance in the Manu's is already proven.

[macebig]

Too early to make predictions. Elfyn and Suninen will have excellent starting positions in Mexico and Ogier will surely fair much better. My money is on Ford bouncing back.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

MW interview on Sweden and Mexico...

http://talkativebroadcasting.co.uk/media/audio/2018/Motorsport/MSport/Feb/TBPC_MSPORT_MWILSON.mp3

[Andre Oliveira]

It looks a new solution to suplementary lights. Not fixed but in bumper

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXOshjTX4AANf98?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXOshjSX0AsnJYK?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXOshjVW0AAB-bi?format=jpg&name=medium

[CWJ]

Same in Sweden under MSRT covers

[Andre Oliveira]

Plastic cover

https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28378261_2046179215411495_1383387072485141888_n.jp g?oh=23824088fafd63db2038ebfea6e2c700&oe=5B47BEB8

[Tarmop]

Has been like that from the beginning.

[AnttiL]

https://rallysportmag.com/preview-rally-mexico-round-3-2018-world-rally-championship050318/


Good news for Evans, this is expected to be his last rally using an old Volvo recce car before moving to a Focus RS like his teammate Ogier.

[KKS]

https://rallysportmag.com/preview-rally-mexico-round-3-2018-world-rally-championship050318/
is that a such big difference what recce car you use?

[nafpaktos]

is that a such big difference what recce car you use?

rally gossip

[AnttiL]

Yesterday evening @estembassyuk, Malcolm Wilson was honoured to be awarded The Order of the Cross of Terra Mariana by the President of Estonia for his support of Estonian motorsport. Thanks Estonia!! ����
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status/978540990591053824

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nascar tech for Fiesta WRC
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/135087/msport-in-ford-nascar-tech-tieup-for-wrc-car

[denkimi]

Nascar tech for Fiesta WRC
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/135087/msport-in-ford-nascar-tech-tieup-for-wrc-car
As if nascar has any usefull technology.

[Franky]

As if nascar has any usefull technology.

They do know how to go left very fast ;)

[denkimi]

They do know how to go left very fast ;)
They are good at 3 things. Turning slowly left, making cars that handle terrible, and related to that, crashing in a spectacular manner.

[rallyfiend]

They're also extremely good at making a car very slippery through the air. Which is clearly the aim of the visit.

[ZequeArgentina]

They are good at 3 things. Turning slowly left, making cars that handle terrible, and related to that, crashing in a spectacular manner.

But also to be probably one of the most popular motorsports series growing; where drivers get more money than everybody else (ok 1 or 2 F1 drivers get more, but not a ggod nuber of drivers), and given the amount of money they invest, it should be respected. They are no longer heavy dinosaurs moving slowly in ovals. They are real race cars nowadays. And I am not a fan of oval racing or american style but I feel I have to respect real engineering and racing.

[Gregor-y]

NASCAR's shrinking and frankly give it all the stick you want unless they're racing at Watkins Glen. Then pull up a chair and get some popcorn. The big point is Ford has an aerodynamics center for NASCAR and their half-baked, nostalgia-fueled GT run. And M-Sport got access to it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They're also extremely good at making a car very slippery through the air. Which is clearly the aim of the visit.

Yes, somebody who actually read the article.

[Andre Oliveira]

New car to Ogier at Tour de Corse,

Chassis 10 to Seb
Chassis 8 to Evans
Chassis 4 to Bryan

[janvanvurpa]

As if nascar has any usefull technology.

Real engine designers don't talk "horsepower"..That's for children on forums..
Real engine guys talk BMEP...Brake Mean Effective Pressure..

NASCAR motors make more BMEP than those poooftie little girlyboy F1 motors..

That is some kind of technology to make pushrod thing fill cylinders and burn better that beautiful multi-valve pent roof motors...

I have never had any interest in going in ovals, less interest in ass-fault...
But Circle track in general--not just NASCAR, but the whole field of circle track racing is the ONLY racing in America worth a god dame dime.
Because its the only racing with any depth of competition..

Remember that when the discussion swings around to US and Canadian rally, and worse, rally-cross. Its all BS and hype and lies.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Making the most of the increased technical support from Ford Performance, the Rally Mexico winning Fiesta made its way to Indianapolis in America earlier this month for some aerodynamic research and development at the Blue Oval’s state-of-the-art wind tunnel."

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/m-sport-ford-chase-success-in-corsica

[NickRally]

Real engine designers don't talk "horsepower"..That's for children on forums..
Real engine guys talk BMEP...Brake Mean Effective Pressure..

NASCAR motors make more BMEP than those poooftie little girlyboy F1 motors.


To illustrate how ridiculous this suggestion is (which is like comparing apples with pairs, by the way, as the F1 engines are turbocharged, while NASCAR ones are naturally aspirated), I will do the calcs for each of the two types of engine using figures significantly skewed in favour of the NASCAR engine, so here it is:

NASCAR engine:
- Top power: 660 kW @ 8 000 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 5.85 litres

F1 engine:
- Top power: 500 kW @ 12 500 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 1.6 litres

NASCAR calcs:
BMEP = (660x120) / (5.85*8000) = 1.69231 MPa

F1 calcs:
BMEP = (500x120) / (1.6*12500) = 3.0 MPa

On my side of the pond, 3 is bigger than 1.69 and I suspect it is the same in the US of A, but as I mentioned comparing these two types of engines is stupid in itself as one is naturally aspirated while the other is heavily turbocharged.

Also, for comparison purposes and using the official figures, which anybody is free to agree or disagree with, here are the calcs for a current WRC engine:

BMEP = (280x120) / (1.6*6000) = 3.5 MPa

Now, before anybody starts shouting how the current WRC engines are more efficient than the F1 engines, if we use numbers that are closer to reality for the strongest F1 engine (currently believed to be the Mercedes), then the BMEP is probably not less than 4.2 MPa.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZ_upt-WkAY4gmF.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DZxYsTnWkAAma0c.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaA6AENXUAIvddN.jpg:large

[Gregor-y]

Modern open face helmets flatter no one's looks.

[Daviesalaam]

what's the major difference between the R5 Katsuta is driving now en the one he crashed in testing??

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

[racerx1979]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaA6AENXUAIvddN.jpg:large
Filled Mills

[janvanvurpa]

To illustrate how ridiculous this suggestion is (which is like comparing apples with pairs, by the way, as the F1 engines are turbocharged, while NASCAR ones are naturally aspirated), I will do the calcs for each of the two types of engine using figures significantly skewed in favour of the NASCAR engine, so here it is:

NASCAR engine:
- Top power: 660 kW @ 8 000 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 5.85 litres

F1 engine:
- Top power: 500 kW @ 12 500 min-1 (remember figures are intentionally distorted to work in NASCAR’s favour)
- Engine capacity: 1.6 litres

NASCAR calcs:
BMEP = (660x120) / (5.85*8000) = 1.69231 MPa

F1 calcs:
BMEP = (500x120) / (1.6*12500) = 3.0 MPa

On my side of the pond, 3 is bigger than 1.69 and I suspect it is the same in the US of A, but as I mentioned comparing these two types of engines is stupid in itself as one is naturally aspirated while the other is heavily turbocharged.

Also, for comparison purposes and using the official figures, which anybody is free to agree or disagree with, here are the calcs for a current WRC engine:

BMEP = (280x120) / (1.6*6000) = 3.5 MPa

Now, before anybody starts shouting how the current WRC engines are more efficient than the F1 engines, if we use numbers that are closer to reality for the strongest F1 engine (currently believed to be the Mercedes), then the BMEP is probably not less than 4.2 MPa.

Go argue with Racecar Engineering and tell them they're all wrong. And that you know because this is your profession..They do seem equally enamored by both F1 and NASCAR, which defies all imagination to me. What team to you work for?

[NickRally]

Go argue with Racecar Engineering and tell them they're all wrong. And that you know because this is your profession..They do seem equally enamored by both F1 and NASCAR, which defies all imagination to me. What team to you work for?

Apologies, I won’t highjack this thread any more after this post. To answer, I suspect they have compared the old naturally aspirated engines used up until 2013 included, which had perhaps a BMEP of just under 1.6 MPa, while the NASCAR engines topped out at maybe slightly over 1.6 MPa, I guess.

Once again for comparison’s sake, the highest BMEP naturally aspirated engines that I have come in contact with, were the old F3000 engines used up until 1995 (before the series became one make championship) with the BMEP entering the 1.7 MPa territory.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier speaking today:
"We’ve made good progress since last year and in this sport you don’t achieve anything alone – it’s always a team effort. All the energy we’ve put into developing the car over the past year is really starting to pay off. We saw it already in Mexico with a good step forward on gravel, and so far I think we’ve improved on asphalt too which is very positive for the future."

[Zeakiwi]

I guess WRC cars still use the road car engine blocks - compared to a F1 engine system which probably costs as much as if not more than a whole WRC car.
Complexity of current F1 engine system guessed at by this writer who gives the reader options as to whether the Honda F1 engine system used in 2017 either did or did not have spark plugs?
A bit more transparency in F1 might be beneficial for the honda fans(if there are any left)?
F1 is a high miler fuel economy run compared to Nascar?
https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/02/inside-line-why-is-the-honda-engine-so-bad/

[Fitz]

As Ari Vatanen said about the t16 'the car was starting to fly' & this is where I think Seb is starting to reach with this Fiesta..... which is lump in your throat stuff for West Cumbria.

[Mirek]

I guess WRC cars still use the road car engine blocks - compared to a F1 engine system which probably costs as much as if not more than a whole WRC car.

No, they don't. If I am not mistaken the only WRC car with stock block since the introduction of 1.6T cars in 2011 was Mini and it was proven to be a wrong decision. Others use specific engines built from scratch.

[AMSS]

No, they don't. If I am not mistaken the only WRC car with stock block since the introduction of 1.6T cars in 2011 was Mini and it was proven to be a wrong decision. Others use specific engines built from scratch.

I think the Fiesta also started with stock block, only later they made a race specific block

[steve.mandzij]

I think the Fiesta also started with stock block, only later they made a race specific blockHow much difference does a stock block make compared to a specific one? I'm not very informed on engineering stuff.

[dimviii]

How much difference does a stock block make compared to a specific one? I'm not very informed on engineering stuff.

depents how strong/fragile is the stock block you have for reference.
specific blocks can be better at heat absorb too(bigger water jackets/channels etc)

[AMSS]

depents how strong/fragile is the stock block you have for reference.
specific blocks can be better at heat absorb too(bigger water jackets/channels etc)

Besides these also weight reduction and slight center of gravity advantages can be obtained by custom blocks

[Mirek]

I thought that the main issue with the stock Mini block (same with PSA R5 cars) was that it was a long-stroke 1.6 engine which means that the cylinders are very narrow and You can't fit large valves inside. Others mostly use blocks from larger capacity stock engines for R5 cars and shorten the stroke (M-Sport and Hyundai 2.0, Škoda 1.8).

[dimviii]

Besides these also weight reduction and slight center of gravity advantages can be obtained by custom blocks

of course,as bigger main caps for crankshaft,stronger between cylinders to cope with the extra pressure and plenty other things that maybe be small but makes the difference.

[janvanvurpa]

I guess WRC cars still use the road car engine blocks -

as far as I know at this point nobody is using a production based road car block or of course crank...Ford Fiesta 1600 has a bore of 79mm and tiny little 30mm intake--25mm exhaust valves...VW 1,6 petrol is 76.5mm I think...ACK!
The hell old VW 2,0 ABA F2 cars had 82,5mm bore stock and VW homolgated those things with 84mm bore,..

To make power you have to have rooms for intake valve--and to have room for valves you have to have room in the bores...
I think everybody;s engines are now "strart from clean sheet of paper" blocks and I think everybody is at 84mm bore because you can shove in 2 x 34mm intake valves in a bore that size...
Gotta have the valve area for power, so you have to have the bore to get the valve size.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

'Fiesta can get even better !'
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/apri-2018/wilson-fiesta-development/page/5362--12-12-.html

[stefanvv]

Poor Neuville

[Mintexmemory]

Poor Neuville

Crying all the way to the bank!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

3 wins out of 4 in 2018 (and probably would've won Sweden but for snow-ploughing).

Ogier is showing how good he really is now he's are settled in to the Team and the Fiesta is developed and set-up to his liking.

[Tarmop]

Don`t overhype him, the championship has more drivers capable of winning than ever (well, atleast 1600cm3 generations of cars:D). Sweden would probably have been Toyota`s party, if not for snow-ploughing

Great driver ofc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

5x Champion and his win against all odds last Season... he needs no hype.

If all had the same road conditions I would bet on Ogier to win in Sweden.

[Franky]

Let's put the tinted sunglasses on.

[Tarmop]

They should start selling fan-sunglasses yes.:D

Just remember the backround of all those events. Who was slow, who was cleaning the roads like him, who crashed, and who had tech. issues/punctures. Self-inflicted or not, it shows exactly why he is the champion, especially for the fifth time, but not unbeatable.

[dimviii]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JXD-HWnX7AY/TsTGErApHlI/AAAAAAAAA0o/ViKJbPJo2Dg/s1600/P1011114.JPG

[BigWorm]

If all had the same road conditions I would bet on Ogier to win in Sweden.
This will never happen in a rally with loose surface, someone has to clean it. If he didn't win in Monte then he could have won in Sweden, but that shows 4 wins out of the 4 opening rounds is not really possible nowadays, even if you're Sebastien Ogier.

[Rallyper]

I kind of agree. Ogier now starting to act like it was a Polo in his hands. So all credits to the driver first, and also the Fiesta of MSport.

[ESTR]

Argentina is coming. If Ogi wins there then he will probably win few more. But let's face it. Weakest rally for him. I don't know that for sure but I think that he does not have single win there.

[Watson]

Argentina is coming. If Ogi wins there then he will probably win few more. But let's face it. Weakest rally for him. I don't know that for sure but I think that he does not have single win there.
Time for Evans to step up. High time.

[Rally Power]

3 wins out of 4 in 2018 (and probably would've won Sweden but for snow-ploughing).
Ogier is showing how good he really is now he's are settled in to the Team and the Fiesta is developed and set-up to his liking.

After watching the highlights and check SS times, it’s hard not to agree with Eddie: Ogier is now, with the Fiesta tuned according to his driving, a step ahead of the competition…quite a shame that Loeb wasn’t able to put more pressure on his rival, but this year title fight is looking less exciting than 2017.

Still a long way to go, but Makinen, Nandan and Citroen people are probably starting to have some regrets...

[ESTR]

why would they have regrets now. Ogi is free as a bird at the end of the year, and asfar as I know there are only two seats sealed and that's Hyundai's Mikkelsen and Tanak in Toyota. Still 2 of each seats free, M-Sport 3 seats avaible and Citroen 2, maybe 3 (if they will stay in championship next year)

[stefanvv]

It's too late for regrets. M-Sport are clearly the best team atm.

[Watson]

why would they have regrets now. Ogi is free as a bird at the end of the year, and asfar as I know there are only two seats sealed and that's Hyundai's Mikkelsen and Tanak in Toyota. Still 2 of each seats free, M-Sport 3 seats avaible and Citroen 2, maybe 3 (if they will stay in championship next year)

Ogier sounds very happy with the car development and lots of upgrades are yet to go on the car, Ford is back in the mix and would probably help lifting wage raises if he demands any, Evans is a loyal number two and the Seb/Malcolm bromance is growing ever stronger.

Tanak left Ford for Toyota because he didn't wanna play second fiddle so imagine his face if Ogier showed up there. Toyota also ask their drivers to do more promo stuff which he dislikes.

Neuville, Mikkelsen and Ogier in one team? Cue the meltdown.

Citroen are too stingy to pay his wages and who knows where they're going with the car.

Last but not least, why would he leave a team that builds everything around him, listens to his wishes. He's comfy in the car, was he to change he'd have a transition period and he might not get away with it that time.

As you might guess by now, I expect him to retire at M-Sport.

[ESTR]

Hyundai is most likely to go after him especially if they will not win any title this year.

[Watson]

Hyundai is most likely to go after him especially if they will not win any title this year.
Again, they'd have three drivers fighting for the championship. Why would Ogier leave a team that builds around him for one where there is likely to be conflict.

[T16]

Just seen a tweet from M-sport that Ogier has won more rally’s already this year than last!
I did not know that. Impressive stuff from ‘the underdogs’... keep it up.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We've made fantastic progress with the EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta WRC this year. Four events into the season, and @SebOgier and Julien have already won more rallies than last year! Check out the highlights from our third victory of the year @TourdeCorseWRC #WRC #FordPerformance https://t.co/yDG8J5IbUL

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier is not only the best driver, he's also the smartest.

He left champions Citroen and went on to glory at VW which no-one expected. Then he switched to M-Sport which many thought stupid, and is doing the same.

He knows where is right for himself and no-one else should be second-guessing now.

[Franky]

Eddie, we know that you are a die hard M-Sport fan and that Ogier is no ordinary rally driver.

[EstWRC]

btw his last pure tarmac rally win before last weekend was in Corsica 2016.

[latek]

It's interesting that since this new era of WRC MSport have won 8 rallies, Hyundai 5, Toyota 2 and Citroen 2. It doesn't look particularly flattering for manufacturers. It's probably the last branch of motorsport where a relatively small but dedicated team of people and top drivers can make enough difference to overcome budgets and resources of big teams. It's so rare these days that it should be appreciated.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eddie, we know that you are a die hard M-Sport fan and that Ogier is no ordinary rally driver.

I was trying to explain that it doesnt matter if the other teams 'target' the signing of Ogier in 2019 - he has always been smart and will be where he wants and suits him best.

And anyway I dont see anywhere better than M-Sport / Fiesta given his results there so far...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin Clark:
I’ve written a few words here about Seb Ogier’s performance in Corsica. I reckon he’s not far off being back to his brilliant, unbeatable best... https://t.co/OG99yOTaMT

[ESTR]

Not necessarily if Loeb join Citroen team for full season. And I have a strong feeling that this could be true. Especially if he will not start winning events in rallycross this year and no Dakar programme next year he will surely come back.

[pantealex]

Not necessarily if Loeb join Citroen team for full season. And I have a strong feeling that this could be true. Especially if he will not start winning events in rallycross this year and no Dakar programme next year he will surely come back.

NO.

Ogier is way faster, totally.
Some rallies Loeb could be as fast but overally Ogier and few others are faster than Loeb.

[janvanvurpa]

NO.

Ogier is way faster, totally.
Some rallies Loeb could be as fast but overally Ogier and few others are faster than Loeb.

But are they smarter? And, how much smarter? decisively? enough to matter?

[dimviii]

NO.

Ogier is way faster, totally.
Some rallies Loeb could be as fast but overally Ogier and few others are faster than Loeb.

i wouldnt be so sure.As we saw from last year,things can change very fast(Ogier 2017 vs 2018)
We cant judge a full year entrance,with just randoms entries with limited car knowledge.We dont know how would be evolved Loeb at full championship.
About the last sentence,we saw Ogier straggling all year at 2017 performance wise with a new car,but we saw instant speed from Loeb with a new car,and not so good ar gravel at least.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://youtu.be/lP9Npk7wHbI

[KiwiWRCfan]

https://youtu.be/lP9Npk7wHbI

A test was performed.
There is no mention of any modifications / refinements being made by Foord Performance as a result of the test.
I am struggling to see any reason they can claim (imply) some share in the Tour de Corse victory.
What value was added by way of improvements ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A test was performed.
There is no mention of any modifications / refinements being made by Foord Performance as a result of the test.
I am struggling to see any reason they can claim (imply) some share in the Tour de Corse victory.
What value was added by way of improvements ?

They wouldnt give out any detailed info anyway.

But M-Sport have a good car already. If FP did find any aero improvements they would probably work best on tarmac (like Corsica) where there is more consistancy than on bumpy gravel.

[KiwiWRCfan]

They wouldnt give out any detailed info anyway.

But M-Sport have a good car already. If FP did find any aero improvements they would probably work best on tarmac (like Corsica) where there is more consistancy than on bumpy gravel.

Would not expect any specific details. I a just surprised we have not even seen any generic statements referring in broad terms to what changes or improvements were achieved/identified. Maybe something has been mentioned and I missed it perhaps

[AnttiL]

I think I heard on All Live that Suninen would be doing Rally Deutschland on a WRC car.

Anyway, super disappointed in his performance this year, not even decent stage times. He has to learn, yes, but seems like a shadow of his explosive pace in 2017 Poland and Finland or the steady results of WRC2

[BigWorm]

I think I heard on All Live that Suninen would be doing Rally Deutschland on a WRC car.

Anyway, super disappointed in his performance this year, not even decent stage times. He has to learn, yes, but seems like a shadow of his explosive pace in 2017 Poland and Finland or the steady results of WRC2

Taking it steady, reminiscent of Evans in 2014 with the approach to get to the finish, which is ok enough. But indeed it would be nice to see him have a bit of a go at least.

[racerx1979]

I think I heard on All Live that Suninen would be doing Rally Deutschland on a WRC car.

Anyway, super disappointed in his performance this year, not even decent stage times. He has to learn, yes, but seems like a shadow of his explosive pace in 2017 Poland and Finland or the steady results of WRC2

There were weird rumors of Suninen doing Germany and also talks of Loeb for Citroen, but not sure of Breens and Khalid's schedule for Germany.

[Allez Andruet]

I think I heard on All Live that Suninen would be doing Rally Deutschland on a WRC car.

Anyway, super disappointed in his performance this year, not even decent stage times. He has to learn, yes, but seems like a shadow of his explosive pace in 2017 Poland and Finland or the steady results of WRC2
Yep, sure he has to learn and get the maximum mileage, but still... you just can't be the slowest of the WRCs (Al-Qassimi naturally exculded) all the time. It seems like he completely forgot how to drive a World Rally Car after Finland 2017. Especially if his program is in connection with M-Sport's chances to grab the Manu title. You would imagine that it'd make sense to score some points every now and then.

It's not the end of the world ofcourse, as the rallies which should suit him better are yet to come, but there's a valid reason to be worried nevertheless.

[Andre Oliveira]

I may start thinking that Pontus was better choice to M-Sport than Evans

[Tarmop]

Well, at the time one had driven the car, had podiums, a close win in Argentina and a win in Wales, other was WRC2 champion yes, but...
Needs to pick up his pace for sure, with most of the drivers available at the end of the season.

[EstWRC]

agreed about Suninen, i was just thinking the same past weekend. His first outings were great but where has the speed gone now?

We will see now if we come back to the european rounds which he knows better and should suit him better.

[Doon]

Any chance M-Sport could put DMACK tyres on Evans' car for the remaining gravel rounds. Not sure on the rules about nominating tyres, but he'd probably get a few decent results with a tyre advantage gamble.

[dimviii]

Ogier doesnt like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/2ca1a8b0955ef98cd2356358335fea23.jpg

[N.O.T]

Ogier doesnt like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/2ca1a8b0955ef98cd2356358335fea23.jpg

Thats what happens when you cry all the time... nobody respects you no matter how good you are.... not even your employer.

There is only one Seb in rallying...

[Tarmop]

Any chance M-Sport could put DMACK tyres on Evans' car for the remaining gravel rounds. Not sure on the rules about nominating tyres, but he'd probably get a few decent results with a tyre advantage gamble.

They could, if their deal with Michelin allows that.

[Watson]

Any chance M-Sport could put DMACK tyres on Evans' car for the remaining gravel rounds. Not sure on the rules about nominating tyres, but he'd probably get a few decent results with a tyre advantage gamble.
I doubt it would work. He was actually doing fine in Mexico until he crashed and Corsica was also okay considering he had to swap codrivers last minute.

I was pretty damn disappointed with him in Argentina but there might be a number of reasons for that.

Seb wasn't able to keep up with Neuville and Tanak who had similarly bad road positions on Friday, so I guess the Fiesta was not ideal for the roads there and/or the whole team couldn't find a good setup.

Maybe the crash in Mexico and Dan next to him in the car led him to be too careful.

Finally, yes maybe the feeling with the Michelins was vastly different to the DMacks of last year. However, Michelin surely supplies the best overall tyre so he best just gets used to it.

In the end he is there to collect points for the team, so results between 3rd and 6th are satisfactory, which he did achieve in the last two rallies. Sometimes staying out of trouble is the best way to go about business for a second driver.

Let's see how he gets on in the next couple of events. I'm not quite prepared to throw him under the bus yet.

[AnttiL]

I can forgive Suninen Sweden because although he's Finnish, he hasn't done really any snow rallying in his life.
I can forgive also Mexico because he didn't get to do the PET and the driving style there is different because of the altitude and less power. But even in those rallies, he could beat some drivers occasionally, whereas in Argentina he was constantly slowest, only beating Evans every now and then (and Sordo on SS2). Well, let's see how Portugal goes, at least he has done that rally before and there shouldn't be a climate effect on the engine.

[AnttiL]

Maybe the crash in Mexico and Dan next to him in the car led him to be too careful.

Finally, yes maybe the feeling with the Michelins was vastly different to the DMacks of last year. However, Michelin surely supplies the best overall tyre so he best just gets used to it.

In the end he is there to collect points for the team, so results between 3rd and 6th are satisfactory, which he did achieve in the last two rallies. Sometimes staying out of trouble is the best way to go about business for a second driver.

Let's see how he gets on in the next couple of events. I'm not quite prepared to throw him under the bus yet.

He was also quite off the pace in Monte and Sweden. Well, in Monte he even had stage wins but also made some mistakes.

His pace is also disappointing, but personally I wasn't expecting him to be much quicker.

[ESTR]

That's why Malcolm was aware that manufacturer champion would be hard this year. And that he says that Suninen could be dropped if M-Sport have no chance of winning it again. He knows what he got behind the wheel of his cars and he know what they are capable of.

[steve.mandzij]

He was also quite off the pace in Monte and Sweden. Well, in Monte he even had stage wins but also made some mistakes.

His pace is also disappointing, but personally I wasn't expecting him to be much quicker.Back in 2015 I remember being much more on Evans' side than Tanak's side come the end of the season, what with his TDC podium and generally better results. Especially considering his quite spectacular 2017 I really expected more from from him, even though I was weary of how much the Dmacks really helped.

It's sad to see that he's been a total mess this year, especially in Sweden. Maybe even Ostberg would have been a better choice, seeing as he'd been second (or even leading?) Argentina last year in his private Fiesta.

[Watson]

It's funny you should mention Østberg and Tanak along with Evans. For a long time they were really similar, being very fast some of the time but also really disappointing the rest of the time. Most drivers are like that for the first period of their career. I can still remember Loeb being pretty hopeless in certain events against Sainz, Solberg, Märtin and Grönholm.

The really good drivers find consitancy. Tanak certainly did last year, to a degree even in 2016. I figured Evans was one year behind Tanak in his development. Tanak and Evans are also similar with being good one season and then quite bad the next but as I mentioned Tanak broke the cycle and Evans hasn't it seems.

The thing is, even if Malcolm loses his patience, he can't really do anything about it this season for the lack of drivers with new car experience.

[janvanvurpa]

Ogier doesnt like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/2ca1a8b0955ef98cd2356358335fea23.jpg

That is almost as good as when Subaru Rally Team USA made a Press Release--FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE!!!! back in 2007 that Travis Pastrami had won the WRC!

I had that saved a few compooter crashes ago...It only took them about 8 hours to disappear all traces (and pressure web sites to delete it those that had done a screen capture)

IT people should be periodically liquidated.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It looks like the year everything goes wrong for Evans - punctures, mistakes, co-driver injury and changed and the car not best suited on the last round. All this is bad enough but it also destroys confidence.

He really needs a good rally and a bit of good luck to help him turn it around.

Like we have seem with Paddon this can be a harsh sport when things conspire against you...

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/ford-pomo-tyytyvainen-sunisen-suoritukseen-teemua-varmasti-turhautti-valilla/

This article states that Wilson is happy with what Suninen did by bringing the car to finish.

[steve.mandzij]

It looks like the year everything goes wrong for Evans - punctures, mistakes, co-driver injury and changed and the car not best suited on the last round. All this is bad enough but it also destroys confidence.

He really needs a good rally and a bit of good luck to help him turn it around.

Like we have seem with Paddon this can be a harsh sport when things conspire against you...That's the problem: unlike Paddon, whose bad streak arguably began either from his freak accident resulting in a forest fire or his second freak accident where he killed a badly placed spectator, Evans' pace has been nowhere despite coming off a year with two (three?) podiums and a maiden win. He's stayed in the same team, with a relatively same car, and yet his confidence has been struggling as if he'd had a dismal 2017.

[N.O.T]

problem with paddon is he set the bar too low after his win in argentina, to me he thought this was the peak of his career, after that win he started to devote more on social media rather than his driving... like those little nobody youtubers.

He should have been more serious about that win and consider it as a step to improve further and not the top of his career, he cashed in far too early, now its late.

[Rallyper]

problem with paddon is he set the bar too low after his win in argentina, to me he thought this was the peak of his career, after that win he started to devote more on social media rather than his driving... like those little nobody youtubers.

He should have been more serious about that win and consider it as a step to improve further and not the top of his career, he cashed in far too early, now its late.

Agree a bit. He has to work hard for reaching the top again. And he has not so many occasions to prove his abilities.

[AnttiL]

Paddon had two big crashes right after his Argentina win so it probably set him back as much as the win took him forwards.

Sometimes I also think it must be difficult to be a WRC driver from outside Europe. Paddon missed some PET's last year because he flew home inbetween two rallies and must be jet lagged all the time. And him doing the local events is probably still important for his local supporters.

[Watson]

problem with paddon is he set the bar too low after his win in argentina, to me he thought this was the peak of his career, after that win he started to devote more on social media rather than his driving... like those little nobody youtubers.

He should have been more serious about that win and consider it as a step to improve further and not the top of his career, he cashed in far too early, now its late.

Agreed. Possibly Evans has the same problem. He had a strongish season last year and maybe he figured he had learnt a lot from Ogier and that easy will do it from now on in.

On a different note, Ogier stated himself (interview on wrc.com) that the lose sandy roads of Argentina were a weak spot of the Fiesta and that they need to improve in that area which would also put Evans' performance in perspective.

Ogier praised the car in Mexico and Evans was also strong until he crashed. It's probably a mixture of both the car not working in Argentina and Evans not going too hard in Mexico and too easy in Argentina.

The proof will be in the European gravel events.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I watched a one-hour programme on Welsh TV following Evans prior to the new season. There was no doubting his dedication, training and sheer determination to compete at the top level. Plus the huge boost of the Rally GB win.

He couldnt be in a better position to show his speed in 2018.. and that he hasnt must be extremely frustrating and also baffling for him (and M.Wilson).

I think the rest of the season could well decide his future.

[N.O.T]

I watched a one-hour programme on Welsh TV following Evans prior to the new season. There was no doubting his dedication, training and sheer determination to compete at the top level. Plus the huge boost of the Rally GB win.

He couldnt be in a better position to show his speed in 2018.. and that he hasnt must be extremely frustrating and also baffling for him (and M.Wilson).

I think the rest of the season could well decide his future.

his daddys pockets will decide the future...

[Andre Oliveira]

Today, M-Sport talked in University of Minho, Guimarães

https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31786487_2100873946589287_4338552246162685952_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=7fa93f76b3e9b98d6b476d37c0080551&oe=5B913318
https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31790690_2116416991721050_1023203798526459904_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=827a2bacb67d5e239bd88a17e3336c32&oe=5B96E169
https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31855564_2116417015054381_207859181422641152_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=0&oh=7ba098ef9e889dd55b4e77e9922d88d1&oe=5B95DA29

Look Red Bull everywhere.

[T16]

problem with paddon is he set the bar too low after his win in argentina, to me he thought this was the peak of his career, after that win he started to devote more on social media rather than his driving... like those little nobody youtubers.

He should have been more serious about that win and consider it as a step to improve further and not the top of his career, he cashed in far too early, now its late.

Stern, but fair.

[Andre Oliveira]

Humm pic by ChristianWRC1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcsSlKjVAAAi_Ri?format=jpg&name=900x900

[L555MAT]

Humm pic by ChristianWRC1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcsSlKjVAAAi_Ri?format=jpg&name=900x900

Not a Block fan, but that is very nice 👌.

[Simmi]

The ST branding is really interesting. VW were about to rebrand the Polo as a GTi for 2017 before it got canned. I think if Ford were all the way back in (like they are with Block) then the current car would be known as Fiesta ST WRC.

[AndyRAC]

http://www.evo.co.uk/rallying/21218/the-future-of-rallying-our-plan-to-bring-back-the-glory-days?_mout=1&utm_campaign=evo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

[L555MAT]

http://www.evo.co.uk/rallying/21218/the-future-of-rallying-our-plan-to-bring-back-the-glory-days?_mout=1&utm_campaign=evo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter


Nothing that has not been said before. IMO the lack of social media content needs to be addressed, but the biggest issue is the piss poor tv coverage. To much in car, to many interviews. Youtube videos are more exciting and jawdropping than the main tv coverage.

[jparker]

TV coverage is a big thing. RallyX are doing it for free, and is getting more and more popular.

[sollitt]

problem with paddon is he set the bar too low after his win in argentina, to me he thought this was the peak of his career, after that win he started to devote more on social media rather than his driving... like those little nobody youtubers.

He should have been more serious about that win and consider it as a step to improve further and not the top of his career, he cashed in far too early, now its late.

Perhaps an understandable assertion to make NOT but probably 180 degrees wrong direction.

If you know Paddon at all, you'll know that his goal is not to win one WRC event but to become champion. No one is more committed or driven to achieve that goal than he. If anything, rather than setting the bar too low he may have been setting it too high and failed to recognize both the enormity of his achievements to that time and the degree to which his own efforts and abilities were responsible for them.

[Tarmop]

I would say that every fast youngster is there with that in mind, some progress quite well, other have or have had setbacks, just like him etc. Nothing more remarkable.

[Watson]

Perhaps an understandable assertion to make NOT but probably 180 degrees wrong direction.

If you know Paddon at all, you'll know that his goal is not to win one WRC event but to become champion. No one is more committed or driven to achieve that goal than he. If anything, rather than setting the bar too low he may have been setting it too high and failed to recognize both the enormity of his achievements to that time and the degree to which his own efforts and abilities were responsible for them.

What are you talking about? By what measure is he more committed than anyone else? How would we know?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Tanak is committed too is he not?

[Tarmop]

Not to mention Lappi and Suninen who tend to be too depressive about every small thing.

[GravelBen]

What are you talking about? By what measure is he more committed than anyone else? How would we know?

He was replying to a village idiot comment claiming that Paddon cares more about social media than driving and thinks he doesn't need to improve.

In any case, sollitt didn't say Paddon is more committed than the others, just that the others aren't more committed than him ;)

[stefanvv]

sollitt didn't say Paddon is more committed than the others, just that the others aren't more committed than him ;)

Is that some mind game to measure equal in weight statements, or just everyone is equally desperate against the current champion?

[sollitt]

To suggest that "no one is more committed, dedicated, ...." is simply an often used colloquialism in English speaking countries to describe someone who is on board 100%. It in no way declares that others are not similarly committed.

NOT's post suggests that, having achieved the win in Argentina, Paddon had climbed his Everest and was content to lower his personal expectations and bask in the sunshine of social media fame and glory.

My view, and it is a personal and completely uncorroborated view, is that the opposite is the case. That so intent was he on continued development in pursuit of higher achievement that he sought counsel from untried and unproven theorists rather than rely on the factors that brought about his ascendancy ... his own efforts, ability and tenacity. And that doing so may have contributed to his derailment.

[GravelBen]

Is that some mind game to measure equal in weight statements, or just everyone is equally desperate against the current champion?

Just pointing out what sollitt actually said, which could be taken either way.

I know they all work hard to get there and stay competitive, but I do think that Paddon has had to work harder than most to get to WRC coming from the other side of the world and not having the established sponsorship / contacts / management / career process many European drivers do.

If you think about the difference between Paddon's road to WRC and (for example) a Finnish driver being managed by someone like Jouhki from a young age - most of what Jouhki has done for the drivers he manages, Hayden has had to do for himself without having the contacts already and while having to focus on his own driving and development at the same time.

Sorry, I'm getting a bit off-topic for an M-Sport thread.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

his daddys pockets will decide the future...

Wrong again as usual. Elfyn Evans father now just runs an average Ford dealer in Dolgellau and has never been able to fund his son's rallying career. Elfyn just works there part-time.

From The Telegraph 2017 -

"My dad drummed into me how there was no certainty of having a career in rallying. It was to be a hobby, nothing else.

I started winning properly in 2008. We had a deal where if I wanted to move up, I had to dominate the class in the current level. And that was how my career began. We always aimed for the championships with prize money or with opportunities; motorsport is always expensive and we tried to make it as cost-effective as we could.

I was never the best at finding sponsorship money. But that’s why we went down the route of trying to win a prize, and for that to propel us into the next class."

[AndyRAC]

Neither Elfyn or Kris have much hope raising sponsorship if they lost their drives. It always slightly amused me when people suggested Kris should pay for a WRC drive when he was in the wilderness - what with?? There ain't no money in the UK for sponsoring WRC drives. That's the main reason he lost the MINI WRC drive - and Dani continued.

[Duvel]

Just wondering wich drivers are not comitted than?

I think they all know how lucky they are to get a chanse.

[EstWRC]

M-Sport finds low-grip fix after Argentina struggles

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-finds-low-grip-fix-after-argentina-struggles-1037573/

[lluisva555]

Deconstruction of the Ford Fiesta WRC aero test in the wind tunnel

https://wrcwings.wordpress.com/2018/05/14/deconstruction-of-the-ford-fiesta-wrc-car-aero-test-in-the-wind-tunnel/

1591

[spiderem]

is Bouffier doing more rally with M-Sport?

[rp]

is Bouffier doing more rally with M-Sport?

No this year...

[spiderem]

No this year...

thanks.

[EstWRC]

The Ford Fiesta WRC will debut 'totally new' aerodynamics at the Rally Finland

https://translate.google.ee/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.diariomotor.com%2Fcompeticion% 2Fnoticia%2Fel-ford-fiesta-wrc-estrenara-una-aerodinamica-totalmente-nueva-en-el-rally-de-finlandia%2F&edit-text=&authuser=0

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"The Ford Fiesta WRC will have a completely new aero for its rear, which in turn will be accompanied by other new elements that they have preferred to be silent about at least for now.

Ogier: I am positive for the future, because in this second part of the season we will have some evolutions in the Fiesta that make us trust. In Finland we will see a totally new rear aerodynamic in our car and probably there will be something new that I can not yet anticipate..."

:)

[lluisva555]

Sounds really interesting. We'll keep an eye on that, from WRCWINGS (http://wrcwings.wordpress.com)!

[GravelBen]

Bringing back the Focus rear bumper boost tank? :spin:

[A FONDO]

"The Ford Fiesta WRC will have a completely new aero for its rear, which in turn will be accompanied by other new elements that they have preferred to be silent about at least for now.

Ogier: I am positive for the future, because in this second part of the season we will have some evolutions in the Fiesta that make us trust. In Finland we will see a totally new rear aerodynamic in our car and probably there will be something new that I can not yet anticipate..."

:)

Him claiming to be finally happy with the car and its development is a good indicator for M-Sport (and Ford Performance supposedly).

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/1003722816787746816

[danon]

^
^
https://s5.postimg.cc/q3oxye30n/KM_ford.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

/\
I wonder if any non-Brits get this... ;)

[macebig]

Ulster banner. Former flag of Northern Ireland.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ulster banner. Former flag of Northern Ireland.

I meant who it could be for ...

[stefanvv]

I like riddles - Wilson's wallet?

[macebig]

The man from Dungannon...

[stefanvv]

That doesn't look very promising - https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&client=firefox-b&q=the+man+from+dungannon&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig_7rEir_bAhVOhqYKHSq7ABwQBQgkKAA&biw=1411&bih=885

[ruesluporp]

Opportunity for M-Sport supporters Club members!

Discounted access for M-Sport supporters

Are you attending the 2018 Neste Rally Finland or ADAC Rallye Deutshcland? If so, we have an incredible opportunity for you!

For the first time ever, we are delighted to offer our M-Sport World Rally Team Supporters Club members the opportunity to visit the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team service area during the 2018 Neste Oil Rally Finland (26th-29th July) and ADAC Rallye Deutschland (16th-19th August) at a discounted rate of £20 per person.

Each guest will be given a tour of the service area, be able to watch a live service from a guest only viewing area and enjoy light refreshments courtesy of M-Sport Ford World Rally Team.

Each exclusive Supporters Club members tour will take place on the Saturday mid day service slots. If you would like to take advantage of this exciting opportunity, please email msportstore@m-sport.co.uk, please be aware that pass numbers are limited to 20 for each event.

[Watson]

M-Sport should bring on Meeke for all the rounds they haven't scheduled a third driver yet. If he does well and Evans doesn't improve, swap them for the second car.

[Tarmop]

M-Sport has pretty much all the rallies covered with Suninen in the thirdexcept Australia and ADAC. Meeke has done well in ADAC a few times though...

[ESTR]

And M-Sport (Wilson) is not interested in Meeke, never was and probably never will. Let's face it. It's over for him. Even Toyota will not bother to sign him over these three brilliant drivers and Hyundai (well they have great lineup also).

[Watson]

Except for Wales I'm pretty sure Meeke could do better than Evans in every remaining round.

[OnlyRally]

Yes, he could do better ore he could crash, it's certainly one of these two options.

I don't think he will drive more in the WRC.

[Watson]

Evans just crashes at a slower pace.

[Tarmop]

Outcome result-wise the same, but car still usable/not so broken.

[Watson]

There is still a chance that Meeke could bring a car home in one piece that doesn't have the driving physics of a bouncy castle.

[TWRC]

There is still a chance that Meeke could bring a car home in one piece that doesn't have the driving physics of a bouncy castle.
He crashed the DS3 and every other car he ever had just a bit less often as the C3, so...

[itix]

He crashed the DS3 and every other car he ever had just a bit less often as the C3, so...100 percent correct. Meeke has crashed his entire career. This won't suddenly change now.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhuP9LrW4AAS9g4.jpg

https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/1016564859226525697


from the best looking ass to most hideous looking ass IMO, maybe it will look better with the livery.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh2kTYkX0AMA9ig.jpg



More https://hencca.galleria.fi/kuvat/Urheilu/Rallitestej%C3%A4+2018/S%C3%A9bastien+Ogier+11.07./

[tomhlord]

Oh, new bits!

[macebig]

New exhaust.new rear bumper and new diffuser.Lets go,Ford!

[rallyfiend]

Yesterday Ogier's car had the 'old' rear on it.

I guess they're still undecided which to use, and running back-to-back tests...

[EstWRC]

Ford Yaris

[Watson]

Yesterday Ogier's car had the 'old' rear on it.

I guess they're still undecided which to use, and running back-to-back tests...
Either that or they take the opportunity to gather data and compare as well as letting the drivers get a feeling for both. When they introduce changes there are often pros and cons, this way the driver can tell more accurately what he does not like about the change in feeling and they can counteract it with some tweaking.

[steve.mandzij]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh2kTYkX0AMA9ig.jpg



More https://hencca.galleria.fi/kuvat/Urheilu/Rallitestej%C3%A4+2018/S%C3%A9bastien+Ogier+11.07./I kinda miss the simpler early WRCs sometimes...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137355/msport-ford-trying-big-change-new-rear-wing

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I kinda miss the simpler early WRCs sometimes...

Here's the original 2017 Fiesta WRC ...
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/upfudd5.jpg

Compare to new rear aero...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh2kTYkX0AMA9ig.jpg

They talk a lot about the new rear wing but its hard to see the difference. The wider vented rear arches & bumper look much clearer.

[AnttiL]

To me this is just more like the crazy group b aeros.
Keep it coming!

[Simmi]

Much credit to that 'Finnish village team' that got their aero right straight out of the box.

[Allez Andruet]

To me this is just more like the crazy group b aeros.
Keep it coming!

Absolutely! The more tasteless the better.

[NickRally]

Ford Yaris

It would appear so.

[stefanvv]

They talk a lot about the new rear wing but its hard to see the difference.

To me it appeared more "flat" at first, but might be an optical illusion.

[mknight]

Much credit to that 'Finnish village team' that got their aero right straight out of the box.

They were redoing front aero at end of 2017. Actually the only team that dId not do big aero changes yet is Citroen(only very small splitter modus) . Whether that's because it's as good as it gets or whether they dont have money/time to do it is another question.

[stefanvv]

Much credit to that 'Finnish village team' that got their aero right straight out of the box.

If You mean the aitflow inlets, they're not the pioneers - it was VW already before 2017 concept becomes reality used for years, then Hyundai copied them and so the M-Sport. Polo '17 had already bigger of those, but didn't used them at full capacity in the test before pulling the plug, it was the Yaris who opened the whole package. We should give all the credits to the village team for the side mirrors design though.... and for the ugliest rear wing I've ever seen:D

[AMSS]

If You mean the aitflow inlets, they're not the pioneers - it was VW already before 2017 concept becomes reality used for years, then Hyundai copied them and so the M-Sport. Polo '17 had already bigger of those, but didn't used them at full capacity in the test before pulling the plug, it was the Yaris who opened the whole package. We should give all the credits to the village team for the side mirrors design though.... and for the ugliest rear wing I've ever seen:D

Fully agreed with the rear wing, it has tough competition in ugliness from the Mitsubishi Lancer WRC 05 though (or in Lancers case mostly the placing was odd)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn Evans at Goodwood

https://youtu.be/addme/UHHTmHMKWdR-ly_7C4j-UOk3pwyrnA

2018 Rally Stage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDvdqcJLAGo

[EstWRC]

https://www.facebook.com/MSportLtd/

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37556853_1973160596060316_7528322228090306560_o.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=01e8c34dddf3c684947e80cde3d85daf&oe=5C0EFB94
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37573112_1973160779393631_7954433651582697472_o.jp g?_nc_cat=0&oh=5f246c2c9b3bef44c3f4d97a770187e6&oe=5BD53332

[GravelBen]

Presumably its effective, because it obviously hasn't been designed for looks!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Presumably its effective, because it obviously hasn't been designed for looks!

Its for rallying, not a beauty competition. Form follows function.

[BigWorm]

Looks quite grotesque

...I like it

[pantealex]

Looks quite grotesque

...I like it

Same. +1

[lluisva555]

New rear aero package will only be used by Ogier in Finland, according to M-Sport press release, where only new rear bumper and rear diffuser are mentioned:
http://m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/fiestas-cleared-for-finland-take-off

Autosport interviews Ogier about the new package....and they talk also of a new rear wing:
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/137568/msport-to-run-new-aero-on-ogier-car

And this is our (WRCWings) review of the modifications:
https://wrcwings.wordpress.com/2018/07/09/new-rear-aero-design-for-the-ford-fiesta-wrc-2018/

[GravelBen]

Its for rallying, not a beauty competition. Form follows function.

Yes Sherlock, thats why I said it. ;)