M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Simmi]

Another disappointing showing for M-Sport this weekend, for me. What happened to the new improved Fiesta?

The drivers put it a bit too close to the scenery and destroyed both their rallies. It showed flashes of pace but from early on they were never really fighting for anything.

Then on the Saturday Tanak kept talking about how he was re-adjusting to the speed of WRC machinery in Finland. I would have thought the hefty test and 6th place in 2012 might have helped with that?

Like Wilson effectively said when he was courting Neuville - they don't have the drivers to extract the full potential of the car.

[EstWRC]

Tänak showed the potential of the new car in poland! you did not follow the rally? 6 stage wins against Ogier's 8, on the power stage the gap between Tänak and Ogier was just 0.1 secs so basically the same and it makes 7 stage wins for Tänak and 7 for Ogier basically :p...Tänak also wanted to show the performance here in finland but unfortunately hit that stone on friday and was not allowed to push the next days but still set fast times without pushing.

[AL14]

Tänak showed the potential of the new car in poland! you did not follow the rally? 6 stage wins against Ogier's 8, on the power stage the gap between Tänak and Ogier was just 0.1 secs so basically the same and it makes 7 stage wins for Tänak and 7 for Ogier basically :p...Tänak also wanted to show the performance here in finland but unfortunately hit that stone on friday and was not allowed to push the next days but still set fast times without pushing.
Tanak showed his potential more than car's potential imho.

[EstWRC]

i totally agree, but i still think the new car is also better, at least for Tänak. I doubt Neuville would do better.

[all-rally]

From what i have seen, Tänak has had to push the car to the absolute limit to keep pace with the VW's in Poland and silly mistakes have cost both drivers. Ever since the new car came out, Evans' luck has turned for the worse and the niggles have meant he has not had a good clean rally to regain the confidence. On the other hand, the arrival of the new car seems to have suited Tänak more, silly small mistakes aside it has brought on better stage times and improvements when compared to the beginning of the year when Evans was performing better.

[Andre Oliveira]

The difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win with Fiesta. Tänak no, in VW.

[N.O.T]

The difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win with Fiesta. Tänak no, in VW.

Ogier could not win in fiesta or Citroen... 2 years ago yes but not today.

[Rallyper]

The difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win with Fiesta. Tänak no, in VW.

Ogier couldn´t win with VW. :)

(NORF that is)

[Doon]

Ogier could win on a horse and cart at the moment (providing it passed scrutineering).

[EstWRC]

Based on the performances in Poland and Finland im sure Tänak woud win in VW, especially in Poland. Tänak's main sponsor also said that if the cars had been swapped in POland then the result had been different and David Evans also seems to agree about this, you can download his article about Tänak in Poland here http://www.upload.ee/files/4832160/feature_6589.pdf.html

Everybody seems to think that Ogier would win in every car but the truth is we dont know it before he moves to another team.:)

[DonJippo]

Everybody seems to think that Ogier would win in every car but the truth is we dont know it before he moves to another team.:)

He allready won with Citroen and VW, I'm sure he would win with Ford's and Huyndai's as well.

[Mirek]

Everybody seems to think that Ogier would win in every car but the truth is we dont know it before he moves to another team.:)

The same applies to Tänak and VW. Remember Mitsubishi gr.A cars and Mäkinen? Nobody else was able to win with that car...

[Fiat-131-Abarth]

The same applies to Tänak and VW. Remember Mitsubishi gr.A cars and Mäkinen? Nobody else was able to win with that car...

What about Burns and before Eriksson in the Evo III?

[Mirek]

I meant more the Evo V and VI. Anyway what I wanted to say was that it's the combination of men and machine what wins the events not the car itself. You can never be sure that somebody who is fast with one would be as good or better with another one.

[WUff1]

I meant more the Evo V and VI. Anyway what I wanted to say was that it's the combination of men and machine what wins the events not the car itself. You can never be sure that somebody who is fast with one would be as good or better with another one.


And that´s it what is happening with Neuville and Hyundai in my opinion - they don´t seem to harmonize.

[Barreis]

Loix was always fast in corolla/celica but when he came to mitsu, results were missing (also Makinen was center of the world there)...

[RAS007]

Loix was always fast in corolla/celica but when he came to mitsu, results were missing (also Makinen was center of the world there)...

The majority of the evolutions of the Lancer were developed almost entirely around Tommi's driving style. That's why everything fell apart for Mitsubishi once he left.

[Barreis]

In 2001 they went from group A to WRC and that was so bad that even Makinen couldn't bring results...

[Jack4688`]

The difference between cars is not so big. Ogier would win with Fiesta. Tänak no, in VW.

What information is that based on?

[Jack4688`]

David Evans also seems to agree about this)

David Evans barely qualifies as a journalist. Each time I read one of his day dreams that he is pedaling as 'news' in either Autosport or Motorsport News I can't help but imagine him handing a single sheet of paper written in crayon to his editor, if her even has one. Both arms of Haymarket seem to give him free reign to publish whatever tripe he comes up with each week.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ogier is better driver than all the rest?

Loeb did it too. When Loeb used the DS the performance is better, the car is not the same of Ostberg, Meeke, Hirvonen, etc etc?

Ogier is regular faster without mistakes, the others need force to try the same.

[Andre Oliveira]

Or you think Bertelli start winning rallies if used VW? ;)

[Rallyper]

Or you think Bertelli start winning rallies if used VW? ;)

Seriously I know what you mean and I agree. But I think Bertelli doing good, not that he´ll be WDC but he might improve slowly having done more and more rallies. (one should have in mind the speed it´s about and what car it is and he manages it)

[janvanvurpa]

Seriously I know what you mean and I agree. But I think Bertelli doing good, not that he´ll be WDC but he might improve slowly having done more and more rallies. (one should have in mind the speed it´s about and what car it is and he manages it)


Hej Pelle, you were there and I know you are/were 'noraml' National class or Grupp H type guy and you know that is my real interest but OK this is WRC forum but there were F-cup cars and I'm wondering if you saw any, and what you thought...It seems the naught f-cup guys lines were making Ogier cry... Now I'd love to see SS times for all the other guys who don't show up on WRC results....but those Finns discriminate against the Swedish speaking citizens of their own country and I guess they don't want us to see cause I can't results anywhere---same like every year..
Any observations?
Any tips to link to F-cup or vetomies??

A general question..What do people think of this whole "Drive D-mack Cup" thing? Does it have any interest or is it just yet another made up thing to funnel money to Malcolm Wilson pockets?
I ask because in last couple of years we've seen a few very brave (well rich) North Americans go and do some rounds and the results have been very politely put extremely "modest" within the class and overall...

And they have been among the quickest guys here and do top3-4 overall... so big contrast..

Anybody see them? Any thoughts?

[Rallyper]

I´m on my way to Finland again (!) and this time it´s with wife , grown up children and grand children. Not so far only to the island Åland (Ahvenmaa) but still, we´re gonna do tenting for five days. So - I hope Teemu, you know him, could give a link to results for Vetomies. Sorry to say they just did drive through the only time I had chance to see them . That was on Päijälä, because of accident with car #94.

Seriously I don´t think times can be measured between them all. teemu knows more, but from the videos I´ve seen afterwards the guy with red 240 seems wild and crazy enough...
And maybe watch the thread National rallies.
If no results I´ll promise to try next week when everything settles after a busy summer...

Regards

Pelle (how did you know I´ve been called Pelle since six yrs old?)

[Hartusvuori]

Rally Finland is spreading out on all threads, but here's a link to Vetomies results: http://www.vetomiehet.fi/tulokset

Nelivetomies = 4WD, so look at Vetomies on the right instead. I havent't yet compared the times with WRC field, but I should. Looked like at least on Ouninpohja the fastest 2WD driver came from WRC3 lot.

[Hartusvuori]

I like DDFT, DMack Trophy that is. This year it's a handful of fast drivers and they seemed to compete, so it's always good for spectating. While spectating live, Dmack drivers also spiced up the atmosphere a bit, because they come late in the field, drive notably faster than few dozen before them, come with one minute interval - and this year - have a silly sounding cars.

[Doon]

I think the proof is in the pudding. Ok, the VW might be marginally faster than the rest but how many times have the other two golden boys beaten Ogier on pure speed......erm pretty much just Latavala, in Finland, his home rally.

Ogier is fastest, and more consistent by some margin. The case was the same for Loeb, who coincidentally has realised that he couldn't match Ogier now because of the slight pace difference in the DS3 and Polo, due to Citroens lack of commitment because they have realised they cant recruit a driver capable of victory.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

MW interview on next Season: http://progressive.laola1.at/wrc/podcast/SAT_MALCOLM_WILSON_GER15.mp3

[irish_tiger]

Is it time to revive this thread ? If Malcom is talking about getting rid of the two drivers who he has ...who is going to fill the seats ?

[French_Paulo]

Is it time to revive this thread ? If Malcom is talking about getting rid of the two drivers who he has ...who is going to fill the seats ?

Lappi ? Tidemand ? Meeke ?
I have no idea... and i think MW too :

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a6/1f/ff/a61fff1675fffe10b497b06f3d31e532.gif

[RS]

I think it depends on what strategy Citroen take.

[skarderud]

I think it depends on what strategy Citroen take.
Yes, a not wery wild guess is that driver Citroën don't want drives a Ford next year.

[AL14]

Yes, a not wery wild guess is that driver Citroën don't want drives a Ford next year.
If the alternative is to be John Desbourough's guest for live stages on WRC+ I think they will chose Ford with a big smile on their faces

[Simmi]

Yes, a not wery wild guess is that driver Citroën don't want drives a Ford next year.

Yeah I could easily see Ostberg back in a Ford replacing Tanak and the whole cycle starts again. Expecting different results but the same thing happens again.

I know they don't really have the funding but it would be nice to see M-Sport back a young driver like they did for Elfyn. Maybe if the rumours about Dmack become fact they could dip into that pool of young drivers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport will probably end up with whoever is left when the other factory teams have had their pick ...

Ostberg or Meeke would be ok as they have had some decent performances in 2015 and are experienced. Sordo I cant see at Ford and Neuville is not much of an option given his recent form.

My money would be on M-Sport keeping their current drivers, or maybe swapping one for a young gun.

And I'd love to see Lukyanuk given a chance.

[itix]

If the alternative is to be John Desbourough's guest for live stages on WRC+ I think they will chose Ford with a big smile on their faces

HAHAHAHAHA, I love this comment so much!

[itix]

Also, taking from the experienced pool is probably not wise. I suggest going for young blood as always. Swedish rally media reports that Tidemand will be joining Skoda for WRC 2 next year so I guess he hasn't got any interesting in his inbox this autumn... Lappi maybe (but you'd be an idiot to go with Lappi... I am 100% in agreement with Mirek there).

Maybe some complete outsider like Lukyanuk (although I think malcolm has had enough russian vodka after Novikov) or Breen or something like that...

Who knows... in January we'll know for sure.

[Rallyper]

Does MW fund one of the two drivers himself? I thought both has to bring money on their own, right? If so Ostberg and Tanak next year. I don´t see Evans staying. And Ostberg stays at Citroen if they continues, is my bet. Then if MW funds one driver it could be - eeh... Bergkvist???
No forgot, he will surely do WRC2 one year first.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Recent article from the BBC on M-Sport: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motorsport/33802840

[RS]

Do the MSport drivers really have to pay or do they just get no salary?

If Malcolm was looking for a driver to show more speed with the Fiesta i'm not sure Ostberg is the right man. I suppose Meeke might prefer to keep his connections to Citroen though even if it means fewer rounds in 2016.

[EstWRC]

Dont know about Evans but Tänak/Mõlder get no salary from m-sport, they get it from their sponsors.

And i agree about Ostberg, if Malcolm wants to know the true speed of the Fiesta then he wont know it with Ostberg/Evans line-up.

[Karukera]

Wilson knows the pace of the Fiesta.
The way he's less and less politically correct if not litteraly pi$$ed off in interviews telling journos he'd win rallies with Ogier or that he'd change the line up if he had money is a clear indication.

[Lundefaret]

According to the Norwegian media Mads is concerned at M Sport in 16. But I doubt that this is 100%. I would think that Mads would take this as a set back vs a true factory team like Citroen, even tough their effort has been greatly reduced since the Loeb era.

[macebig]

What Wilson says about Fiesta's pace is clearly a strategy.He is trying to bring on sponsors and getting Ford to give him more money.His logic is "Give me money,I will bring on a fast driver and we will go for the championship".Maybe Abu Dhabi will return as they dont have Citroen anymore and that will tempt Ford to give Wilson the official capacity again.He may as well partner with DMack.

[AMSS]

What Wilson says about Fiesta's pace is clearly a strategy.He is trying to bring on sponsors and getting Ford to give him more money.His logic is "Give me money,I will bring on a fast driver and we will go for the championship".Maybe Abu Dhabi will return as they dont have Citroen anymore and that will tempt Ford to give Wilson the official capacity again.He may as well partner with DMack.

It`s been suggested before here in these forums but no way will M-sport partner with Dmack at least not for the official WRC campaign, if they change from Michelin the only other option is Pirelli

[Andre Oliveira]

Anyone have doubts if Ogier goes to M-Sport, they win? The car is not so bad. The differences between drivers is more than between cars

[RAS007]

Wilson knows the pace of the Fiesta.
The way he's less and less politically correct if not litteraly pi$$ed off in interviews telling journos he'd win rallies with Ogier or that he'd change the line up if he had money is a clear indication.

Wilson has plenty of money. Do you have any idea how much M-Sport makes? It is an exceedingly profitable enterprise. Malcolm just does not appear to be willing to use any of that money to pay for a decent driver line-up, or even a single decent driver, for reasons best known to himself. It's strange to me, because he took Malcolm Wilson Motorsport from a pretty good national level customer prep outfit, to a world class rally team, with world class facilities at Dovenby, but doesn't seem to be willing to invest in the most crucial aspect, now that the full manufacturer backing is gone. His attitude, at least as far as the driver line up is concerned, seems to be, "build it and they will come". The problem is, no-one is coming, partly, at least in my opinion, because M-Sport's results have been so mediocre, which could be changed with a halfway decent driver, assuming the Fiesta is as competitive as Malcolm says it is.

[Rallyper]

Could be like Nokia if the comparison could be made. You have to be on your toes unless you get passed by your competitors and the decline starts.

[AL14]

With VW already testing for 2017 and Citroen dropping from manufacturers to focus on it, I think it is not a good moment for M-Sport. They will spend a bigger amount of money, times and resources for 2016 and will start from what seems an inferior car.
The r5 market is opening to new cars like Skoda, Hyundai and so on.
Plus, some private drivers are reducing their presence on WRC. How do you think Wilson will manage this situation? Or am I wrong on describing it?

[Grundo Farb]

With VW already testing for 2017 and Citroen dropping from manufacturers to focus on it, I think it is not a good moment for M-Sport. They will spend a bigger amount of money, times and resources for 2016 and will start from what seems an inferior car.
The r5 market is opening to new cars like Skoda, Hyundai and so on.
Plus, some private drivers are reducing their presence on WRC. How do you think Wilson will manage this situation? Or am I wrong on describing it?
This is a great post. On the mark. I hadn't thought of it like this!

[AL14]

This is a great post. On the mark. I hadn't thought of it like this!

Are you ironic or serious? :)

[Grundo Farb]

Hahaha, serious. No sarcasm. :D

[Karukera]

Wilson has plenty of money. (...) Malcolm just does not appear to be willing to use any of that money to pay for a decent driver line-up, or even a single decent driver, for reasons best known to himself. It's strange to me, because he took Malcolm Wilson Motorsport from a pretty good national level customer prep outfit, to a world class rally team, with world class facilities at Dovenby, but doesn't seem to be willing to invest in the most crucial aspect, now that the full manufacturer backing is gone. His attitude, at least as far as the driver line up is concerned, seems to be, "build it and they will come". The problem is, no-one is coming, partly, at least in my opinion, because M-Sport's results have been so mediocre, which could be changed with a halfway decent driver, assuming the Fiesta is as competitive as Malcolm says it is.

Some valid points stating the obvious. Money is the essence of MSport.
The Fiesta was in the pace for the 2nd manu position before the current line up binned it.
MSport's business will never generate enough cash to attract/afford a "decent" driver, without official backing with a project, hence no glory.
Vicious circle.

[JAM]

Wilson has plenty of money. Do you have any idea how much M-Sport makes? It is an exceedingly profitable enterprise. Malcolm just does not appear to be willing to use any of that money to pay for a decent driver line-up, or even a single decent driver, for reasons best known to himself. It's strange to me, because he took Malcolm Wilson Motorsport from a pretty good national level customer prep outfit, to a world class rally team, with world class facilities at Dovenby, but doesn't seem to be willing to invest in the most crucial aspect, now that the full manufacturer backing is gone. His attitude, at least as far as the driver line up is concerned, seems to be, "build it and they will come". The problem is, no-one is coming, partly, at least in my opinion, because M-Sport's results have been so mediocre, which could be changed with a halfway decent driver, assuming the Fiesta is as competitive as Malcolm says it is.

Great post. It was always that way since the 2000's.

Even when Ford had strong investing on WRC, the Focus was always a step behind, and it seems it was not by any lack of potential from the car and from the team, it was lack of investment in development.

It's easy, if Citroen invested 50 million on WRC, all the 50 milion went to the road. If Ford invested 50 milion, only less than 45 million would come to the road.

That's business, nothing wrong with that. But it should be taken in account when we see Wilson saying "if i had a top driver..."

Somebody has to take the risk and invest, Wilson is asking to someone to do that instad doing it himself.

[JAM]

Bertelli with M-Sport in 2016

https://twitter.com/fuckmatie37?lang=pt

[RS]

Bertelli with M-Sport in 2016

https://twitter.com/fuckmatie37?lang=pt

Bertelli won't be one of the main two drivers surely?

[Simmi]

Will be interesting to see how the paperwork gets filed with the FIA. Whether there's some sort of M-Sport B-team in play or Bertelli is just getting an arrive and drive package. Do M-Sport own the Fiesta or does Lorenzo?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ostberg or Meeke would be ok as they have had some decent performances in 2015 and are experienced. My money would be on M-Sport keeping their current drivers, or maybe swapping one for a young gun.



I was sort of right ! ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Someone on here was slagging off the poor M-Sport website the other day...

It looks like they must've been reading as its just be re-launched: http://www.m-sport.co.uk/ :)

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/pages/m-sport-poland

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/images/igallery/Content/Poland.jpg

To coincide with the 2011 FIA WRC Academy, M-Sport opened a separate operation outside of Krakow in Poland. M-Sport’s European base is spearheaded by Maciej Woda and runs a number of M-Sport operations from the Central European facility.

The facility provides the hub of M-Sport’s Ford Fiesta R2 programme and the firm’s one-make series – the Drive DMACK Fiesta Trophy – is based out of the Polish operation.

M-Sport Poland is also runs a number of customer-based Ford Fiesta R5 programs and is responsible for the company’s FIA European Rally Championship (ERC) endeavours – securing the 2015 FIA European Rally Championship.

Plans are also in place for a new state-of-the-art facility in Poland which will allow the firm’s Polish operation to flourish further.

[Rally Power]

For those who thought that Kajto was a simple privater...

[WUff1]

For those who thought that Kajto was a simple privater...

At Jänner Rally he had 15 own mechanics and 10 from M Sport

[janvanvurpa]

At Jänner Rally he had 15 own mechanics and 10 from M Sport

25?

Does the car need 25 mechanics? Or does he think he needs 25 mechanics?

Or is he bringing his own cheering section along?

10 mechanics sounds like 5 too many.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Perhaps team members not mechanics... You know Physio, Car Technician, tyre crew etc

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport boys helping out following the terrible foods in the Lake District area this weekend. Well done !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVjgCpcWcAAi58r.jpg:large

Our thoughts go out to the people of Cumbria and Cockermouth affected by flooding this morning. Stay safe, @MSportLtd crew.

[Sulland]

Is MSport now in the position to collect data from Pirelli, Michelin and DMack in 2016?

That will give them a fat database to make their pick for 2017! Planning ahead :D

[EstWRC]

Yes they are, they already did it with Tänak last week in monte testing. Like i said, Wilson is a clever man!

[rallyfiend]

Is MSport now in the position to collect data from Pirelli, Michelin and DMack in 2016?

That will give them a fat database to make their pick for 2017! Planning ahead :D

Any team can do that at any time.

The Pirelli and DMACK tyres are commercially available to buy....

[pantealex]

Any team can do that at any time.

The Pirelli and DMACK tyres are commercially available to buy....

only current ones, not "new" ones ;)

[AL14]

M-Sport's hiring more than 200 people in Cumbria
Here are all vacancies. http://www.m-sport.co.uk/careers

[seb_sh]

M-Sport's hiring more than 200 people in Cumbria
Here are all vacancies. http://www.m-sport.co.uk/careers

not sure if it means anything, they're also running the Bentley GT3 program. it may also be because they will be running Bertelli next year, maybe Kubica as well.

[AL14]

It means anything in particular I guess. I just published it for those in this forum who can be interested in working with a top manufacturer

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Camilli in 2016 kit
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYNX6EtWQAAyGpn.jpg

[Eli]

Camilli in 2016 kit
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYNX6EtWQAAyGpn.jpg
when we will see those liveries?!!

[Andre Oliveira]

Autosport Motor Show

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No new sponsors... :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYn2UjcUEAAJMiv.jpg:large

[GigiGalliNo1]

Maybe M-Sport don't need new sponsors..

[Simmi]

Maybe M-Sport don't need new sponsors..

What happened to the return of Qatar as a sponsor?

[GigiGalliNo1]

Fell through.... as you can see Nasser won't be in the WRC this year... :(

[Sulland]

Maybe they need to hire a new sponsor firm:
http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122496/msport-still-lacks-full-season-funding

[dimviii]

Maybe they need to hire a new sponsor firm:
http://m.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122496/msport-still-lacks-full-season-funding

they dont need a sponsor.M sport will be at wrc non stop for the next 20 years

[Simmi]

they dont need a sponsor.M sport will be at wrc non stop for the next 20 years

There's a difference between simply being in the WRC and being competitive in the WRC.

[dimviii]

There's a difference between simply being in the WRC and being competitive in the WRC.

if Wilson wants,he can be competetive(hire proper drivers)
He just dont care.He just cares to be present at wrc,and sell/hire cars/parts.Thats why he will be at wrc for the next 20-30 years nonstop.
That he is not having budget for all rallies for 2016 is just laughable.

[AL14]

if Wilson wants,he can be competetive(hire proper drivers)
He just dont care.He just cares to be present at wrc,and sell/hire cars/parts.Thats why he will be at wrc for the next 20-30 years nonstop.
That he is not having budget for all rallies for 2016 is just laughable.

Yes but if he is not competitive he will sell/hire less car (see Skoda Fabia in the R5 market).
He has budget for 2016 for sure, agree with you, but he has also to develop 2017 car and rightfully he is giving it priority.
So, yes, in my opinion he needs definitely a sponsor to go for all 14 rounds and develop a proper car instead of a mediocre one.

[dimviii]

Yes but if he is not competitive he will sell/hire less car (see Skoda Fabia in the R5 market).

Fiesta was the more underpowered car at his category(r5)
didi he sold less than skoda and psa? No.

He has budget for 2016 for sure, agree with you, but he has also to develop 2017 car and rightfully he is giving it priority.
So, yes, in my opinion he needs definitely a sponsor to go for all 14 rounds and develop a proper car instead of a mediocre one.

he dont need one and you will see it.He will compete at all rounds at 2016,and his 2017 wrc fiesta will be ready and in time.Even without sponsors.

[AL14]

Fiesta was the more underpowered car at his category(r5)
didi he sold less than skoda and psa? No.


he dont need one and you will see it.He will compete at all rounds at 2016,and his 2017 wrc fiesta will be ready and in time.Even without sponsors.

There are a lot of Skodas in this Monte: Maurin and others would have taken a Fiesta like they did if it was as fast as Fabia...He needs to have competitive cars in my opinion.

[Mirek]

Fiesta Evo shall be very competitive but let's see.

[dimviii]

There are a lot of Skodas in this Monte: Maurin and others would have taken a Fiesta like they did if it was as fast as Fabia...He needs to have competitive cars in my opinion.

we cant talk about future,but we can about present/past.
So lets see fiesta/psa/fabia r5 numbers till now.Or s2000 if you prefere.
M-sport all last years was without main sponsor.Lets see if this was a problem to seel/hire cars.
About Monte you can t have a safe conclusion.Fabia was available and tested,while fiesta evo wasn t available.
I am talking about total numbers they have build and sell.

[Rally Power]

From the beginning of this "will MSport be there" novel it seems obvious that Wilson is pressuring Ford to put more money into WRC program.

For sure these year 14 rounds calendar will be a logistic nightmare but it doesn't seems to be such a financial disaster compared to the proposed (and accepted) RB/MW 13 rallies calendar with China instead of an European event, simply because China will probably cost almost the same as two european events.

China still is the golden market for automakers and Wilson will advertise Ford's car for almost nothing...that's why he must feel Ford should step forward and give some extra funding. Plus, the European sales, the reason for Ford to restrain financial help, are improving since 2014.

Regarding what Wilson has been doing at WRC with his limited financial resources (in view of other manus budgets), it's a totally honest pressure and Ford should really reinforce the partnership.

[Fly]

Fiesta Evo shall be very competitive but let's see.

I sent a message to Anders Gröndal yesterday. He said the new Fiesta was great. Let's see that at world level this week if it's enough to battle with the Fabia's.

[Andre Oliveira]

I talked with Anders too and confirms that. Btw, one source told me that this Fiesta is like a canon ball. Let's hope be true ;)

[skarderud]

Ref grøndal, the step between the ds3 and fiesta is bigger than the step between the impreza and the ds3:)

[SubaruNorway]

Ref grøndal, the step between the ds3 and fiesta is bigger than the step between the impreza and the ds3:)

That was a Arnt Gustav Olsen quote ;)

[skarderud]

That was a Arnt Gustav Olsen quote ;)
I should known:)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

With so many variables on the Monte I dont think this is the rally to properly compare the Fiesta R5 Evo with the others...

I also dont see the need for the criticism of MW / M-Sport - they did well to continue in the WRC when Ford pulled out. And now they are in WRC-2 they are producing decent cars and continue to develop them and it all costs money, so how else are they to achieve this with no major sponsor.. they have to sell cars. And the best way to sell a car is to make it a good one.

The Fabia R5, 208 & DS3 are factory cars in all but name, and M-Sport has to compete against them with just its own budget. They deserve praise.

[JTGANG]

Good news !!!

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122540/msport-ends-doubt-over-wrc-season

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Mads was coming back to M-Sport anyway...

“[Citroen’s decision] certainly made my decision a lot easier, but at the same time I was also very motivated to make a return to M-Sport,”

http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-return-on-the-cards-before-citroen-hiatus-says-ostberg-670167/

[Simmi]

So Mads was coming back to M-Sport anyway...

“[Citroen’s decision] certainly made my decision a lot easier, but at the same time I was also very motivated to make a return to M-Sport,”

http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-return-on-the-cards-before-citroen-hiatus-says-ostberg-670167/

Even if Citroen stayed they probably weren't going to retain Mads. It was pretty much public knowledge that his camp were talking to M-Sport.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Wilson in Australia recently:

http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/02/09/m-sport-boss-examines-wrc-struggles/

[AndyRAC]

Fair & pretty honest assessment from Malcolm. Too many in WRC have their heads in the sand. Other motorsport categories are giving better entertainment, coverage, ROI, etc

[AL14]

Right, but I fear he is exchanging causes with consequences.

[Rally Power]

Fair & pretty honest assessment from Malcolm. Too many in WRC have their heads in the sand. Other motorsport categories are giving better entertainment, coverage, ROI, etc

It's true that something is missing on the promotional side of WRC, but the ones with their heads in the sand are Ford executives.

Toyota, VW, Hyundai and Citroen will be fully committed at the beginning of a new WRC golden era, but Ford prefers to be more involved in RX (still a marginal motorsport series comparing to WRC), forgetting they are the brand with most prestigious WRC heritage!

Above all, I think Wilson words reflect his perplexity about Ford motorsport options…

[AndyRAC]

Ford now have a Global motorsport programme - with Ganassi/ Multimatic running a pair of the new Ford GTs in the GTE-Pro class in the WEC. And with proper backing, and promotion. A far cry from their WRC programme; I don't remember the Ford US top brass being involved with the WRC at all.

[Rally Power]

Ford now have a Global motorsport programme - with Ganassi/ Multimatic running a pair of the new Ford GTs in the GTE-Pro class in the WEC. And with proper backing, and promotion. A far cry from their WRC programme; I don't remember the Ford US top brass being involved with the WRC at all.

Yep, it seems all Ford motorsport programmes are now mainly U.S. oriented: besides Nascar and the GT programme that you've mentioned, there's also the Hoonigan/Block Rallycross World Championship participation (with technical support of MSport).

But Ford is a top 5 global automaker, with a strong european position. That WEC (a 2nd level programme, like GM's Corvette) and RX participations aren't enough. They should back MSport properly and enter WRC again as a manufacturer.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Motorsport.com

M-Sport driver Mad Østberg has driven flawlessly all weekend and climbed the standings as a result.

M-Sport World Rally Team's Mads Østberg and Ola Fløene have climbed into fourth position at Rally Mexico – courtesy of an intelligent drive behind the wheel of their Ecoboost-powered Ford Fiesta RS WRC.

Tackling 152.40 competitive kilometres, the second full day of competition included a pass of the Ibarrilla stage (SS11) which has posed something of an ‘Achilles Heel’ for the Norwegian in previous years. This year however, the gravel tracks didn’t cause him any issues as he settled into a comfortable rhythm.

Driving well, Østberg has run an intelligent rally thus far. Avoiding the pitfalls that catch out a number of crews year on year, the Norwegian has driven flawlessly all weekend and climbed the standings as a result.

With the FIA World Rally Championship's longest stage in more than 30 years left to contest, his consistency means that he and Fløene are in a strong position and have the potential to capitalise further should the unforgiving stages produce any more drama tomorrow.

Mads Østberg (4th) said: "Results wise it's looking really good. We've been driving well all weekend and I've driven my best all day. We've avoided any mistakes and we're now in fourth place which would be a really good result come the end of the rally. I think it's fair to say that both myself and the team were hoping for more, but that's the way it is and we're all working hard to improve."

[Sulland]

What development steps has the Fiesta gone through since it was born, in all aspects of the car?

[N.O.T]

What development steps has the Fiesta gone through since it was born, in all aspects of the car?

i do not know, but the development of Malcoms wallet is pretty damn good.

[Rallyper]

i do not know, but the development of Malcoms wallet is pretty damn good.

You are God, right? Then you should know everything MSport did on Fiesta last year. Sadly it wasn´t enough.

[RAS007]

i do not know, but the development of Malcoms wallet is pretty damn good.

And all without winning anything, or even coming close.

[Rallyper]

His wallet fills from selling winning R5´s. Surely not so much from WRC campaign.

[Nornbugger]

If Malcolm Wilson is making so much money from running his team why are more not doing it? I don't know his business details and I'm sure the others commenting on here do N.O.T. either, but in my everyday life everytime I've came across people making money relatively easily there are lots of other trying to emulate what they are doing. I'm sure if we all knew the detail of their accounts we'd see that for the investment and expertise involved the returns are most likely not spectacular.

[Barreis]

He sells WRC cars, seats, R5, S2000 (before), rebuild them, etc. WRC campaign is here for promotion of business (with help from ford). Now there's also Bentley GT program...

[Rallyper]

You have a production body shell. Spice it with tuning stuff. Mount it together and double the price. Sell 75-100 a year. (I´m not saying that is how MW is doing, but all business are kind of like that, isn´t it?)

[N.O.T]

If Malcolm Wilson is making so much money from running his team why are more not doing it? I don't know his business details and I'm sure the others commenting on here do N.O.T. either, but in my everyday life everytime I've came across people making money relatively easily there are lots of other trying to emulate what they are doing. I'm sure if we all knew the detail of their accounts we'd see that for the investment and expertise involved the returns are most likely not spectacular.

Nobody argues that he is the best in rallying business when it comes to promotion and profit, he just fails tragically at winning anything at top level since ford left, same like when he was behind the wheel, a failure.

[Andre Oliveira]

Wilson failure was not hire Ogier. If he got the kid he smashed the others.

[Karukera]

Nobody argues that he is the best in rallying business when it comes to promotion and profit, he just fails tragically at winning anything at top level since ford left, same like when he was behind the wheel, a failure.

Cynically enough, neither Ford or Wilson want to win. Wilson : "Hi Ford, want some glory ? please pipe in some bucks.", Ford : " Hi, no, thanks, we're fine with you losing for us on a regular basis. We're only here to stay and be seen plus the sport is so badly managed with such poor visibility that we figured out the current bucks are good enough to fix your castle.", Wilson : " Ok, deal"

[Nornbugger]

Nobody argues that he is the best in rallying business when it comes to promotion and profit, he just fails tragically at winning anything at top level since ford left, same like when he was behind the wheel, a failure.


You use the word profit again, can you please enlighten me to just how lucrative Mr Wilsons business is please?
To call him and his efforts at MSport a failure is ludicrous, his efforts as a driver too, of course both have been less than they could have been but the only failure in this is the likes of yourself who having tried nothing have managed to achieve the same, grow a pair lad and get out and try and do something instead of belittling the efforts of those who's shoes you couldn't lace.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport a failure since Ford left ?? What do people expect, them to take on and beat the factory teams ??

Just remaining in the WRC is a success.

And having the highest placed non-VW driver in 2015 WDC.

[Lundefaret]

You use the word profit again, can you please enlighten me to just how lucrative Mr Wilsons business is please?
To call him and his efforts at MSport a failure is ludicrous, his efforts as a driver too, of course both have been less than they could have been but the only failure in this is the likes of yourself who having tried nothing have managed to achieve the same, grow a pair lad and get out and try and do something instead of belittling the efforts of those who's shoes you couldn't lace.

Hello Nornbugger :)

To describe M- Sport/Malcom Wilsons business plan I am sure that you know it consist of several parts:
- Running the WRC team (most of all as a promotion for M- Sport services.)
- Selling R5 and other rally cars.
- Selling parts for all of the above.
- Refurbishing/servicing all of the above.
And that is just the rally part.

M-Sport, as I am sure you know, also does rally cross, and will do the HOONIGAN/Ken Block team with a Focus this year (surely a multi year contract paid for by Ford, and also does endurance racing with Bentley in the Blancpain series, and will of course sell cars/services/parts etc.

M- Sport has also started dabbling in the street car arena with the M- Sport edition Ford Transit Van, and an edition of the Fiesta ST. They surely also "rent out" engineering capabilities, and with the planned expansion of their site, with much larges facilities (they are already large) and their own test track etc, they surely want to go more down the OEM route.

Judging by M-Sports ever growing site and number of staff (about 200 on the Dovenby Hall site at the moment I think), and their ability to do the WRC effort with no main sponsor, surely says something about the profits in the business.

And his business being so successful, is it others trying to emulate him?
Yes off course, and he is also emulating others. Its called the motorsport business.
His business plan is the same as Prodrive, Tommi Mäkinen Racing, etc etc. But the big thing seperating him is that he has been able to shift a large number of rally cars, and kept a closed loop on servicing/parts etc.
But its nothing new, its done all trough motorsport, even by big manufacturers like Porsche etc.

The success of the R5 class in rallying is much down to Malcolm Wilson. And off course several manufacturers are hopping on that band wagon, because they see that parts of their motorsport effort can actually yield a return profit.

Malcolm Wilson should be praised for running a stand alone motorsport effort that sustainable, and doesn't end with changing of the guards at the marketing department of a car brand.

And he also should receive praise for running a team that has a history of bringing up young talent. If you count the top WRC drivers today, and of the recent past, a huge number of them has gone trough M- Sport, if they had to pay or not: Latvala, Østberg, Neuville, H. Solberg, (and P. Solberg), Märtin, Evans, Tanak, Mikkelsen (Stobart). etc etc etc.

To call Malcom Wilson a failure is just ridiculous.

[Simmi]

Spot on Lundefaret! He's basically being criticized for not ploughing his own hard-earned money back into a direct fight against manufacturers. A fight he knows he can not win. M-Sport could easily have walked away from the top level of the sport but have continually opted not to. And I'm massively thankful they haven't.

[Barreis]

Spot on Lundefaret! He's basically being criticized for not ploughing his own hard-earned money back into a direct fight against manufacturers. A fight he knows he can not win. M-Sport could easily have walked away from the top level of the sport but have continually opted not to. And I'm massively thankful they haven't.

But why didn't they? Malcolm knows very well if he leaves series, the only option will become GT. WRC is golden duck for him...

[Rally Power]

MSport footprint at WRC and on the global rally scene it’s now legendary.

Ok, he didn’t get Loeb and Ogier, but who can blame him for it? Ford leaved WRC for marketing reasons (when factories were closing down in Europe) but Wilson was able to secure their tech support and provide state of the art rally cars to customers around the world (they’re overpriced because of FIA rules).

For sure his (and our) aspiration was to see Ford coming back to WRC instead of joining RX field, but US Ford’s principals will realize (an WEC/LeMans fiasco can make it sooner than later) that the company right spot it’s on WRC, with MSport.

[Munkvy]

A quick look at Companies House shows:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02105112/filing-history

That MSport is quite healthy. Not a large company, but certainly making a reasonable profit. Although of course filings are only to end of 2014.

[seb_sh]

I think anyone with a bit of maturity and understanding of what it means to run a business can only appreciate what MW has done. These cries about him getting rich are like teenager tantrums. Yes he most probably has a nice turnover from all the cars, parts and services M-Sport sells, and much of that is going back into growing the company. He has managed to remain in the WRC without manufacturer support only because that business exists and is able to generate enough income for him to spend on an expensive WRC participation.

But yeah it's quite easy to say on the internet he failed this and that while sitting in a comfy chair. I'm not his biggest fan and don't agree with some things he says or does but in any case I don't think you can call him a failure.

[RAS007]

I think anyone with a bit of maturity and understanding of what it means to run a business can only appreciate what MW has done. These cries about him getting rich are like teenager tantrums. Yes he most probably has a nice turnover from all the cars, parts and services M-Sport sells, and much of that is going back into growing the company. He has managed to remain in the WRC without manufacturer support only because that business exists and is able to generate enough income for him to spend on an expensive WRC participation.

But yeah it's quite easy to say on the internet he failed this and that while sitting in a comfy chair. I'm not his biggest fan and don't agree with some things he says or does but in any case I don't think you can call him a failure.

Good post. I agree that Wilson is not a failure, as a businessman or driver. It just bothers me, that it doesn't seem to bother him, that M-Sport are not competitive. I'm not sure why some of that turnover you talk about can't be used to pay a decent driver.

[janvanvurpa]

A quick look at Companies House shows:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02105112/filing-history

That MSport is quite healthy. Not a large company, but certainly making a reasonable profit. Although of course filings are only to end of 2014.

Interesting reading there..
46.6 million English Squids in turnover.
Total tax paid on everything: zero! They got credit to carry forward against any future tax liability..

Guess the Pommie Parliament is as kind to companies as the US Congress is...

Zero taxes paid...

Wonder if Malcom uses the same accounting firms on his 250,000 quid salary?

[EightGear]

Interesting reading there..
46.6 million English Squids in turnover.
Total tax paid on everything: zero! They got credit to carry forward against any future tax liability..

Guess the Pommie Parliament is as kind to companies as the US Congress is...

Zero taxes paid...

Wonder if Malcom uses the same accounting firms on his 500,000 quid salary?

244.148, actually. The half a million is the total sum for all directors.

The 0 tax expense is because of the R&D Tax credit system, which was introduced to encourage companies to invest in R&D.
Profits can not be carried forward, only losses can. They did so in 2013 for 123.000 pounds.

[dimviii]

I'm not sure why some of that turnover you talk about can't be used to pay a decent driver.

why to pay a driver that could win a championship?
will he sell more r5?
will he sell more parts from all previous r5 grA wrc r2 etc rally cars?
will he rent/sell/service more wrc cars?
will ford ever will pay for a works comeback, if Msport can win world championsips without Ford money?
NOT is the answer for all these questions.
Malcolm doesnt care about to win a wrc title.
He just cares to be present at wrc.All the others comes ''easy way''
at previous talks i ve said that is the most clever man at wrc circus.Or maybe the man, who has the most profit, from this circus if you like.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Who are all these 'top drivers' that MW wouldn't pay for, apart from Loeb & Ogier (who were settled at Citroen and probably outbid for by VW, respectively) ?

Hirvonen ? Latvala ? Neuville ? Ostberg ?

MW has tried them.

He cant be expected to have employed Meeke, Sordo, Mikkelsen and Paddon at some point as well..

[stefanvv]

Who are all these 'top drivers' that MW wouldn't pay for, apart from Loeb & Ogier (who were settled at Citroen and probably outbid for by VW, respectively) ?

Good question, he already tried to pay top coins for a top driver 15-16 years ago. The outcome wasn't very different.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

VW have blown every other team out of the water since entering WRC, both financially and technically.

So how can a non -factory team seriously compete, either for titles or for drivers ?

I dont doubt that MW would love to be fighting at the very top, but it just aint possible.

[dimviii]

Who are all these 'top drivers' that MW wouldn't pay for, apart from Loeb & Ogier (who were settled at Citroen and probably outbid for by VW, respectively) ?

Hirvonen ? Latvala ? Neuville ? Ostberg ?

MW has tried them.

He cant be expected to have employed Meeke, Sordo, Mikkelsen and Paddon at some point as well..

what do you want to say,that Wilson offers money and multiyear contracts and nobody goes at Msport?
its his tactics for plenty of years now when he has to pay drivers.Nothing new.

[dimviii]

VW have blown every other team out of the water since entering WRC, both financially and technically.

So how can a non -factory team seriously compete, either for titles or for drivers ?

I dont doubt that MW would love to be fighting at the very top, but it just aint possible.

when it was possible with maybe the best car (focus 03)choosed Martin,Gardemaister,and Kresta....

[Simmi]

He tried to sign Loeb. He tried to sign Ogier. He couldn't have been much more public in trying to get Neuville back in a Ford.

He can't provide the same salary or development level on the car as a manufacturer.

Right now there are basically 3-4 guys who are rally-winning calibre drivers. And sometimes I think even that number is too high. So I'm not really sure what he's supposed to do. Safe pair of hands + young driver to nurture is about all we can expect.

[gorganl2000]

244.148, actually. The half a million is the total sum for all directors.

The 0 tax expense is because of the R&D Tax credit system, which was introduced to encourage companies to invest in R&D.
Profits can not be carried forward, only losses can. They did so in 2013 for 123.000 pounds.

are the losses carried forward for a maximum period of 5 years for tax purposes?

[dimviii]

He tried to sign Loeb. He tried to sign Ogier. He couldn't have been much more public in trying to get Neuville back in a Ford.

He can't provide the same salary or development level on the car as a manufacturer.

Right now there are basically 3-4 guys who are rally-winning calibre drivers. And sometimes I think even that number is too high. So I'm not really sure what he's supposed to do. Safe pair of hands + young driver to nurture is about all we can expect.
Simmi i dont talk about this year,but for last years.Yes now its impossible to hire a decent driver,even Toyota and Hyundai with plenty of money have similar problem.And when Toyota and Citroen comes,will be more difficult.
When they will be present vw.toyota,hyundai,citroen all of them willing to pay a good salary,its obvious you will hire these will left without drive.
Wilson have find through the years some talents,but didnt managed to keep somebody.All left.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Who would have won the WRC in an M-Sport Ford vs. Loeb ? Gronholm and Hirvonen pushed him as close as anyone. Who else should MW have hired ?

As for vs. Ogier/VW - Neuville came second in 2013 and Ostberg was the highest placed non-VW in 2015 ...

[RAS007]

when it was possible with maybe the best car (focus 03)choosed Martin,Gardemaister,and Kresta....

2005, the drivers were Gardemeister and Kresta. Arguably a worse line-up than today.

[EightGear]

are the losses carried forward for a maximum period of 5 years for tax purposes?
I'm not sure about British law but a quick Google search says there's no maximum period.

In the Netherlands the maximum period is 9 years.

[dimviii]

Who would have won the WRC in an M-Sport Ford vs. Loeb ?
Οgier.


Gronholm and Hirvonen pushed him as close as anyone. Who else should MW have hired ?
These days nobody said that Malcolm hadnt got good drivers.Simply Loeb was better.We are talking about other years.


As for vs. Ogier/VW - Neuville came second in 2013 and Ostberg was the highest placed non-VW in 2015 ...

Gronholm and Hirvonen were fighting for wins and championships.They didnt placed 2nd from others retirements,and they werent minutes behind leader at every rally.There is a small difference.

[Barreis]

They won two manu' championships with Gronholm...

[Rally Power]

They won two manu' championships with Gronholm...

...and Hirvonen. Two manu’s titles in almost 20 WRC full seasons sounds a bit short. And zero driver’s titles even more.

Maybe from '03 (after failing 01' and '02 titles with Sainz and McRae on the team) MSport running budgets were always a bit shorter than competition or maybe Wilson just follows Mr. Ferrari (and many others former or current teams owners) concept that drivers are human resources that must adapt to the structure and never the structure to them (like wisely Citroen and VW did with Loeb and Ogier).

Anyway, WRC roll of honour doesn't reflect MSport winning potential and their amazing achievements as a private company at the rally sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

These days nobody said that Malcolm hadnt got good drivers. Simply Loeb was better. We are talking about other years.

.

Yeah so they had some bad years, but there were reasons - financial mostly, or simply not being in the right place at the right time (to get Ogier).

But as they didnt get him its not that important who they did get, as no-one beats Ogier. Wilson has had the best of the rest over the years (Solberg, Gronholm, Hirvonen, Latvala, Ostberg etc) but no-one beats Loeb or Ogier, so its a thankless task trying to do so.

Ford M-Sport doesnt have a divine right to just sign who they want.... there is the little matter of other Teams who are also battling for the best drivers, often with more finances...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They won two manu' championships with Gronholm...

Exactly.

And in any WRC era other than Loeb's they would've had some driver's Titles.

[Nornbugger]

Interesting reading there..
46.6 million English Squids in turnover.
Total tax paid on everything: zero! They got credit to carry forward against any future tax liability..

Guess the Pommie Parliament is as kind to companies as the US Congress is...

Zero taxes paid...

Wonder if Malcom uses the same accounting firms on his 250,000 quid salary?

In the UK businesses don't pay tax on turnover

[Nornbugger]

when it was possible with maybe the best car (focus 03)choosed Martin,Gardemaister,and Kresta....

Martin was a top drawer driver, closer to being a Loeb IMO than Solberg ever was. Gard/Kresta, are you serious? the car wasn't the best by that season and they were looking at the development of the next years car.
The flying Scotsman failed MSport in his time there and with a cooler head would have won a title there, Gronholm IMO didn't fail but in pretty much any other era his and MSport efforts together would have produced a drivers title.

[dimviii]

Gard/Kresta, are you serious? the car wasn't the best by that season and they were looking at the development of the next years car.
.

car wasnt good at Kresta -Garde days? i dont think so...

[Nornbugger]

car wasnt good at Kresta -Garde days? i dont think so...

I didn't say it wasn't good, I said it wasn't the best, the Xsara was the best in 05, and in 06 and possible still was in 07 if Citroen hadn't stopped using it.

[dimviii]

how you know that?

[Rally Power]

car wasnt good at Kresta -Garde days? i dont think so...

‘05 was a sort of interim season for MSport, as they were already preparing ’06 new model for Gronholm and Haninen. With the ’03 car, Martin did a nice job during ’03 and ’04, despite lots of engine troubles, and Duval didn’t manage to impress.

[Barreis]

Duval didn't manage to impress?! He was called the biggest young talent after 2004 and for that he was signed with citroen...

[Rally Power]

Duval didn't manage to impress?! He was called the biggest young talent after 2004 and for that he was signed with citroen...

I wasn’t clear enough: Duval didn’t manage to impress, like Martin did. It’s true that ‘03 was Duval first season on a WRC, but Martin was almost always faster than him also in ‘04, getting to match Duval amazing speed on tarmac. All 6 Ford wins on those years came from Martin.

[Karukera]

79, Fiat-Abarth took a sabbatical year.
06, Citroën was officially out and Loeb was mostly alone against Grönholm/Hirvonen.
07, same Ford team, Sordo did a bit better but still not enough. 06/07 : Loeb = 16 wins, Grönholm/Hirvonen : 16 wins.
A title is a title though.

[AndyRAC]

79, Fiat-Abarth took a sabbatical year.
06, Citroën was officially out and Loeb was mostly alone against Grönholm/Hirvonen.
07, same Ford team, Sordo did a bit better but still not enough. 06/07 : Loeb = 16 wins, Grönholm/Hirvonen : 16 wins.
A title is a title though.

Just confirms what a poor record Ford have in the WRC. A meagre return over the years.

[RAS007]

Just confirms what a poor record Ford have in the WRC. A meagre return over the years.

The question is, why? If you look at the (almost) 20 year period that Malcolm has been in charge, they should have managed to deliver the driver's crown at least once. As has been pointed out by others, it isn't for a want of talented drivers (Kankkunen, McRae, Sainz, Solberg, Martin, Gronholm, Latvala, Hirvonen). There are 5 world champions in that list, and none of them did it in a Ford. Why is that? 2 constructors titles do indeed seem like meagre pickings against that embarrassment of talent. Obviously it can be argued that Ford and/or M-Sport found themselves overtaken by events, and the Loeb era was very damaging for the sport, but we seem to be in yet another era of one driver in one car, dominating everything. That said, it seems that M-Sport are the only team currently in the WRC who are really not trying that hard to win.

[N.O.T]

The fact that you are arguing about a guy, who force fed us his talentless son for years, on weather he was successful or not is laughable... tennis is a very nice alternative for you all.

Malcom only cares about one thing, money and nothing more and when it comes to achieving anything more than multiplying his bank account is a failure exactly like he was as a driver.

The only ones that are going to be sad if m-sport says bye bye are the useless guys who count WRCs on each entry list and visit the same hairpin each time the go at an event.

[Nornbugger]

The question is, why? If you look at the (almost) 20 year period that Malcolm has been in charge, they should have managed to deliver the driver's crown at least once. As has been pointed out by others, it isn't for a want of talented drivers (Kankkunen, McRae, Sainz, Solberg, Martin, Gronholm, Latvala, Hirvonen). There are 5 world champions in that list, and none of them did it in a Ford. Why is that? 2 constructors titles do indeed seem like meagre pickings against that embarrassment of talent. Obviously it can be argued that Ford and/or M-Sport found themselves overtaken by events, and the Loeb era was very damaging for the sport, but we seem to be in yet another era of one driver in one car, dominating everything. That said, it seems that M-Sport are the only team currently in the WRC who are really not trying that hard to win.

Kankkunen An awesome driver but undeniably past his best when he drove a Ford
Sainz I would say the same about him
McRae Reliability issues with both car and driver, he threw the title away in '01
Solberg One of the weakest champions ever, likely wouldn't have got the title in 03 if Loeb had been allowed to push in GB
Gronholm To push the Loeb/Citroen combo as hard as they did was impressive, late in Gronholm career too, its a shame he didn't join the team in 04
Martin with a bit more experience and maturity could have done more than he did.

[EstWRC]

Märtin lost the 03 title because the car broke down...

[Sulland]

We are all different, and that is a good thing.

i mean that all the factory teams should be banned, and that private tuners should run their motorsport arms.
Could be doifferent teams running F1, rally, sportscar and so on.

Malcolm has been clever and made his company into a very successful business.

if it had not been for 2 x superb Sebastians, he would have won some world championships as well.

But you cant blame a man for making the most of his situation, we need more teams like MSport.

Tommi has more factory support, so lets see in what direction his team takes?

[Rallyper]

Tommi has more factory support, so lets see in what direction his team takes?

According to N.O.T. rules, that should mean TM could concentrate on competition rather than filling up his wallet.

[RAS007]

According to N.O.T. rules, that should mean TM could concentrate on competition rather than filling up his wallet.

I would certainly hope Tommi concentrates on being competitive, that is the point, after all. Anyway, his wallet is already full. M-Sport started out as a customer preparation outfit, don't forget that, and they have somewhat returned to their roots. It would be quite different for a new factory backed team to decide that they can't be competitive and just start churning out r5 cars or whatever for privateers.

[N.O.T]

Will they begin testing soon ? or tommi is focused on hiring some more of his finish friends to get payed by toyota ?

the question is will the team flop before or shorty after the start of the season? but the fun part will be when tommi with his english tries to answer to journalists what goes wrong....

[RAS007]

Yet another disappointing event for M-Sport. Mads doesn't seem happy, appearing to blame the car:

#5 flag Østberg Mads - Fløene Ola "We have done our best. We were well prepared and did the perfect job inside the car. I can be pleased with that."

As for Camilli, what future for him?

[Rallyper]

Rumours say it was problems with car during whole rally.

[Mintexmemory]

Rumours say it was problems with car during whole rally.

Per I can understand something being wrong programme-wise on Friday, but what would be unfixable all weekend?

[Rallyper]

Per I can understand something being wrong programme-wise on Friday, but what would be unfixable all weekend?

Obviously not much problems today. But you have to ask M-Sport about what problems. Just heard.

[denkimi]

Per I can understand something being wrong programme-wise on Friday, but what would be unfixable all weekend?

the altitude perhaps?

[EstWRC]

from the team's press release, Malcolm says nothing about car problems

Team Principal, Malcolm Wilson OBE, said:

“Having hoped to be challenging for a third successive podium, it’s been a disappointing weekend for us. We know that Mads is capable of more and, if you look at the times of Ott [Tänak], we know that the car is too. Mads is driving well, but the times aren’t there so we need to understand his issues and work to find a solution before Portugal.

“Eric did exactly what was asked of him this weekend and he can return to Europe in a positive frame of mind. We need to remember that this is still only the ninth gravel rally of his career and he set some very encouraging times – especially through the fog on El Condor which is something that he has never experienced before. He’s on the right track, and I’m confident he can show further progress once we return to Europe.

“It seems as though Elfyn has had a season’s worth of bad luck this weekend so hopefully he’ll be able to get back to winning ways in Portugal. When he had a clean run, he had more than enough speed to win the rally. He’s scored some solid points with a fourth-placed finish and I’m sure he’ll be out to impress at the next event.”


http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/ostberg-takes-fifth-in-argentina

[dimviii]

So Malcolm definetely says about ''Mads issues that they have to work''
just same as in Citroen days.

[RAS007]

So Malcolm definetely says about ''Mads issues that they have to work''
just same as in Citroen days.

Mads is blaming the car, Malcolm is blaming Mads,even comparing him with Tanak, a driver HE dropped in favour of Mads. It seems to me that the only person who thinks the Fiesta is any good, is Malcolm. There always seems to be another excuse, another tale of woe. At the end of it all,results are what matter, and all this consecutive points finish horseshit aside, there aren't any results to speak of.

[Mk2 RS2000]

“Eric did exactly what was asked of him this weekend and he can return to Europe in a positive frame of mind. We need to remember that this is still only the ninth gravel rally of his career and he set some very encouraging times

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/ostberg-takes-fifth-in-argentina

9th Gravel rally of his career and he is in a WRC car, most NZ drivers would be disappointed if they didn't do that many events in a year.

[skarderud]

As far as i know, or have heard, It is a major engineissue at Mads car, It was there in Mexico, but they isnt allowed to change the engine between Mexico and Argentina due too rules. So they knowed before the rally that they going to have less power. I don't know how less power, but it seems too be quite much.
The team told Mats to don't speak about it in the intervjues, bad PR for car?

[EstWRC]

but isnt it weird that the team and Malcolm know the problem is with the car but then they talk the driver down? They should find a different excuse then, the rally doesnt suit the car or whatever.

[RS]

Even without any alleged engine problem I doubt the result would have been much different, the next car was nearly 4 minutes in front.

I suppose the Fiesta is probably the slowest World Rally Car now (not a criticsm, they are up against factory teams with mega budgets) but equally I think they could do better than this.

Mads is simply not number one driver material and Camilli is not even number two material. There is not much available on the drivers market at the moment but last year's lineup was better.

[GravelBen]

but isnt it weird that the team and Malcolm know the problem is with the car but then they talk the driver down?

I guess the m-sport business depends on selling cars...

[bluuford]

Yeah, Mads was able to go faster than Ott only when Ott had three DMacks:P Camilli even didnt mach that on El Condor.

[Rallyper]

As far as i know, or have heard, It is a major engineissue at Mads car, It was there in Mexico, but they isnt allowed to change the engine between Mexico and Argentina due too rules. So they knowed before the rally that they going to have less power. I don't know how less power, but it seems too be quite much.
The team told Mats to don't speak about it in the intervjues, bad PR for car?

Yapp, there it was. And I´m sure Skarderud has some inside info about the engine-issue. And speaking of speed, don´t forget he ran on Hard compound on Saturday while VW and Hyundais where on Softs. Why´s that, I have no idea.

[tomhlord]

There just seems to be a general lack of pace from all M-Sport cars at the moment. Mads' consistency is bagging the points, but speed wise not much is going on. Can't help but feel it makes Tanak's Poland performance and Elfyn's Corsica performance in 2015 stand out more.

On the flip side, Hyundai have stepped up with a new car, whereas M-Sport run the same spec as last season, which perhaps makes things seem a little worse.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Very strange situation with Ostberg's car in Argentina. Was there no problem with Camilli's and what about Tanak's ??

Mads was quite clear in telling everyone after stages that he was happy with his driving and was usually on the limit... he must have been inferring that it wasn't him that was to blame for the slow times.

Hopefully we will see the evidence in Portugal.

[dimviii]

Hopefully we will see the evidence in Portugal.

at previous rallies was working ok?

[skarderud]

at previous rallies was working ok?
The problem started in Mexico, isnt allowed to change the engine between Mexico and Argentina. He is probably not next WDC, but a good 2.driver for a factoryteam.

[dimviii]

and before Mexico couldnt win a stage.
So which is the problem,if he is 4 minutes slower from leader,or 3 minutes?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Give it a rest Dim, this is boring now.

We all know your opinion on Ostberg's performance and no information, reasons or circumstances anyone gives will change it.

[dimviii]

Give it a rest Dim, this is boring now.

its better to give a rest to excuses.


We all know your opinion on Ostberg's performance and no information, reasons or circumstances anyone gives will change it.

its not my opinion that lacks performance.Its fact.
Informations given from Malcolm about Mads low performance.
Welcome to reality.

[N.O.T]

Ostberg is nothing, no reason to flog a dead horse, he has no future so why argue ?? Once daddy stops paying he is out.

[Rallyper]

its better to give a rest to excuses.



its not my opinion that lacks performance.Its fact.
Informations given from Malcolm about Mads low performance.
Welcome to reality.

Mads speed in Argentina was much under his abilities. Something else there. Try to have that in mind.

[smokingjoe]

he could swap seats with Theirry then ??

they both like to blame the car

[Nornbugger]

he could swap seats with Theirry then ??

they both like to blame the car

Or he could swap seats with Mikkelsen and then people would think Ostberg was rather good and that Mikkelsen was cruising round spending his Dads money!

[dimviii]

Or he could swap seats with Mikkelsen and then people would think Ostberg was rather good and that Mikkelsen was cruising round spending his Dads money!

he swapped with Mikko at citroen.

[RS]

Or he could swap seats with Mikkelsen and then people would think Ostberg was rather good and that Mikkelsen was cruising round spending his Dads money!

I would like to see a bit more speed from Mikelssen too, but I don't think he's as slow as Ostberg. Remember his team mate is quite good.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

People only reply because of the OTT criticism of Ostberg... but no-one said he was the best or fastest in the first place..

Should he beat the factory drivers in the best cars ? No.

But from the criticism you'd think he should...

[RS]

People only reply because of the OTT criticism of Ostberg... but no-one said he was the best or fastest in the first place..

Should he beat the factory drivers in the best cars ? No.

But from the criticism you'd think he should...

Partly he brings it on himself because of his moaning/excuses.

I preferred the way Mikko Hirvonen handled it. When he wasn't quick enough he admitted it and didn't blame anyone else.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Partly he brings it on himself because of his moaning/excuses.

I preferred the way Mikko Hirvonen handled it. When he wasn't quick enough he admitted it and didn't blame anyone else.

One persons moaning/excuses is another persons reasons/circumstances.

I dont mind people criticising when its fair to do so, but there seems to be some strange thing with Mads.

They treat him like he is some kind of imposter when he actually finished 4th in the 2015 WDC - first driver behind the all-conquering VWs.

He's basically a one-man team for M-Sport and needs to get them points, whatever it takes, as no-one else is going to. Going flat-out to complete with the factory teams means big-risks and a chance of going off and therefore no points. And if he does try that hard he is still like to come off worse due to the inferior car. Whether he comes say 4th, 5th or 6th by 1 min or 5 mins doesnt affect the points he gets for that position... so why take big risks ?

He should finish 7th after the factory drivers but he is usually higher, so what is he doing so wrong ? He is currently 3rd in the Championship.

Save your harsh criticism for the likes of Neuville or Latvala.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mr Consistent

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg1A59tW4AMp_ch.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC.com

Mads Østberg (Ford Fiesta RS)
Result: 5th
Fifth was a disappointing result for Mads who went to Argentina hoping for a third successive podium. Slower than fellow Fiesta RS pilot Tanak on the opening three stages, Mads denied there was anything wrong but, as the event wore on, his upbeat end of stage comments seemed increasingly out of step with his stage times. For a driver who claimed to be in a good rhythm and driving hard why wasn't he more competitive? It's a mystery. And one M-Sport has pledged to investigate before Portugal.

[N.O.T]

Mr Consistent


That table is useless since points systems changed over the years.

[dimviii]

Mr Consistent

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg1A59tW4AMp_ch.jpg

if you were a manager,who would you choose,Makinen,Gronholm or mr constistent?

[ik1911]

Table with old point system (20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1) (1973-arg2016)

1 SEBASTIEN LOEB 2214
2 CARLOS SAINZ 1860
3 JUHA KANKUNEN 1465
4 MIKO HIRVONEN 1439
5 PETER SOLBERG 1293
6 MARCUS GRONHOLM 1279
7 MARKKU ALEN 1104
8 JARI MATI LATVALA 1095
9 SEBASTIAN OGIER 1027
10 DIDIER AURIOL 1025
11 COLIN MCRAE 1024
12 TOMMY MAKINEN 971
13 DANI SORDO 893
14 HANNU MIKKOLA 833
15 RICHARD BURNS 805
16 MASSIMO BIASION 768
17 BJORN WALDEGARD 719
18 STIG BLOMQVIST 694
19 WALTER ROEHRL 588
20 TIMO SALONEN 586
21 KENNETH ERIKSSON 576
22 ARI VATANEN 558
23 MADS OSTBERG 519
24 MARKKO MARTIN 487
25 FRANCOIS DELECOUR 482

ANDREAS MIKKELSEN 345
HAYDEN PADDON 142
THIERRY NEUVILLE 337
KRIS MEEKE 174

[Toyoda]

Table with old point system (20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1) (1973-arg2016)

1 SEBASTIEN LOEB 2214
2 CARLOS SAINZ 1860
3 JUHA KANKUNEN 1465
4 MIKO HIRVONEN 1439
5 PETER SOLBERG 1293
6 MARCUS GRONHOLM 1279
7 MARKKU ALEN 1104
8 JARI MATI LATVALA 1095
9 SEBASTIAN OGIER 1027
10 DIDIER AURIOL 1025
11 COLIN MCRAE 1024
12 TOMMY MAKINEN 971
13 DANI SORDO 893
14 HANNU MIKKOLA 833
15 RICHARD BURNS 805
16 MASSIMO BIASION 768
17 BJORN WALDEGARD 719
18 STIG BLOMQVIST 694
19 WALTER ROEHRL 588
20 TIMO SALONEN 586
21 KENNETH ERIKSSON 576
22 ARI VATANEN 558
23 MADS OSTBERG 519
24 MARKKO MARTIN 487
25 FRANCOIS DELECOUR 482

ANDREAS MIKKELSEN 345
HAYDEN PADDON 142
THIERRY NEUVILLE 337
KRIS MEEKE 174

Surely divide by # of rallies, an average points per rally would be logical, this is pointless

[Mirek]

It's less pointless than counting together different point scoring systems :)

[ik1911]

WRC Starts Points Av.
1 SEBASTIEN LOEB 169 13,1
2 SEBASTIEN OGIER 101 10,2
3 MASSIMO BIASION 78 9,8 *
4 CARLOS SAINZ 196 9,5
5 JUHA KANKUNEN 162 9,0 *
6 MIKO HIRVONEN 163 8,8
7 MARKKU ALEN 129 8,6 *
8 MARCUS GRONHOLM 152 8,4
9 WALTER ROEHRL 75 7,8
10 RICHARD BURNS 104 7,7
11 BJORN WALDEGARD 95 7,6
12 COLIN MCRAE 146 7,0
13 TOMMY MAKINEN 139 7,0
14 PETER SOLBERG 188 6,9
15 JARI MATI LATVALA 160 6,8
16 HANNU MIKKOLA 123 6,8
17 DANI SORDO 132 6,8
18 DIDIER AURIOL 152 6,7
19 TIMO SALONEN 95 6,2 *
20 MARKKO MARTIN 84 5,8
21 STIG BLOMQVIST 122 5,7
22 ARI VATANEN 101 5,5
23 MADS OSTBERG 94 5,5
24 THIERRY NEUVILLE 63 5,3
25 ANDREAS MIKKELSEN 69 5,0

[Mirek]

Do I assume right that You counted "virtual points" based on the same point scoring system?

[ik1911]

Do I assume right that You counted "virtual points" based on the same point scoring system?

Yes, with old point scoring system!

[Rallyper]

This is OT.

[Sulland]

Is M-Sport coming with an engine upgrade soon?

[N.O.T]

Is M-Sport coming with an engine upgrade soon?

no

[EstWRC]

podcast with Wilson about 2017 cars and other topics http://www.talkativebroadcasting.co.uk/2016/05/m-sport/malcolm-wilson-m-sport-6/

They are gonna test the new car in July.

[Sulland]

I hope they build a complete new chassis for Mads, and are able to tweek the software back to a level where the downshifts are working again.

Their drivers need a car they can trust will do what they give it input to do, and not just hoping for the best!
I think all Fiesta drivers have the same issues, they just dont tell it on the radio/tv.

[cali]

I hope they build a complete new chassis for Mads, and are able to tweek the software back to a level where the downshifts are working again.

Their drivers need a car they can trust will do what they give it input to do, and not just hoping for the best!
I think all Fiesta drivers have the same issues, they just dont tell it on the radio/tv.
Lol

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

Not sure whether this was public knowledge until now - but M-Sport will be running a new model Ford car in 2017. And given the cars don't exist yet they can't start testing the exact spec. I'd assume it will be the new shape Fiesta?

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10427-m-sport-to-build-brand-new-ford-for-2017-wrc
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/fiesta/93556/new-2017-ford-fiesta-pictures-specs-and-release-date

I'm hopeful that this, in addition to the work M-Sport did on the Focus RS RX, means they are moving back closer to Ford Performance.

[dimviii]

I hope they build a complete new chassis for Mads, and are able to tweek the software back to a level where the downshifts are working again.

Their drivers need a car they can trust will do what they give it input to do, and not just hoping for the best!
I think all Fiesta drivers have the same issues, they just dont tell it on the radio/tv.


post of the year!!! http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/hang.gif

[Sulland]

post of the year!!! http://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/hang.gif

Happy to humour you all!:D
But as the cars are now, I think they will be better off with a manual secuential box!
they are infantery proofed, and trustable.

I am not saying the Fords will win rallies due to this, but for sure higher up than now.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads was 4th in the 2015 WDC means he can do the job in a decent car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And he's still lying 3rd in 2016 despite everything ! :hmph:

[GigiGalliNo1]

MSport will have the new Fiesta in 2017.

Hope you boys know Eric keeps his seat for 2016

[Simmi]

MSport will have the new Fiesta in 2017.

Hope you boys know Eric keeps his seat for 2016

Camilli has a two-year deal and M-Sport have first option in 2018. That's all public knowledge.

[cali]

Camilli has a two-year deal and M-Sport have first option in 2018. That's all public knowledge.
In M-Sport nothing is certain.


Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[USER47]

Camilli showed some impressive progress in last two events. He obviously has a good head, the pressure on him after the start of the season must have been pretty intense, yet he didn't break and did some good, consistent and not entirely slow driving in Argentina and Portugal.

[N.O.T]

Camilli showed some impressive progress in last two events. He obviously has a good head, the pressure on him after the start of the season must have been pretty intense, yet he didn't break and did some good, consistent and not entirely slow driving in Argentina and Portugal.

you spelled "he was not completely useless" wrong....

impressive
ɪmˈprɛsɪv/Submit
adjective
evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill; grand, imposing, or awesome.
"an impressive view of the mountains"
synonyms: magnificent, majestic, imposing, splendid, spectacular, grand, august, awe-inspiring, stirring, stunning, breathtaking; stately, monumental, palatial, noble, dignified
"the hall is an impressive building"
admirable, accomplished, expert, skilled, skilful, masterly, consummate;
excellent, formidable, outstanding, first-class, first-rate, fine;
informalgreat, mean, nifty, cracking, crack, stellar, ace, wizard, amazeballs;
informalcrackerjack, badass
"they played some impressive football"

[RAS007]

In M-Sport nothing is certain.

Because at any moment someone else could come along who has more money.

[leighton323]

you spelled "he was not completely useless" wrong....

impressive
mprsv/Submit
adjective
evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill; grand, imposing, or awesome.
"an impressive view of the mountains"
synonyms:magnificent, majestic, imposing, splendid, spectacular, grand, august, awe-inspiring, stirring, stunning, breathtaking; stately, monumental, palatial, noble, dignified
"the hall is an impressive building"
admirable, accomplished, expert, skilled, skilful, masterly, consummate;
excellent, formidable, outstanding, first-class, first-rate, fine;
informalgreat, mean, nifty, cracking, crack, stellar, ace, wizard, amazeballs;
informalcrackerjack, badass
"they played some impressive football"
He is atleast showing improvement. The current level of the WRC means that the days when guys could come straight in and be at the front of the field are over. He's making progress and that is good.

We should be a lot more critical of the guys that seem to be stagnant at the moment such as Ostberg, Neuville and to an extent Mikkelsen. We dont doubt these guys belong in the WRC but they need to show improvement. Ostberg had his breakthrough year in 2012 and how long ago is that now and he hasnt seemed to improve since then!
Although yes, Mikkelsen had a good rally. But he is stuck at a level just below what it takes to win a wrc round on pace alone. He needs to start battling for the win.

[RAS007]

He is atleast showing improvement. The current level of the WRC means that the days when guys could come straight in and be at the front of the field are over. He's making progress and that is good.

We should be a lot more critical of the guys that seem to be stagnant at the moment such as Ostberg, Neuville and to an extent Mikkelsen. Ostberg seems to be going backwards. Remember the brillant year he had in 2012?! How long ago is that now and he hasnt seemed to improve since then!
Although yes, Mikkelsen had a good rally. But he is stuck at a level just below what it takes to win a wrc round on pace alone. He needs to start battling for the win.

Agree with you about Neuville, but something has happened to him mentally, and I think the arrival of Paddon has made it worse. He should change teams. Mikklesen has been the de facto number 3 at VW for so long, I think he drives for 3rd place, every time; he also would benefit from a change of scenery. Your comments about Ostberg, well, you're just piling on. He's at M-Sport, what the hell do you expect?

[leighton323]

Agree with you about Neuville, but something has happened to him mentally, and I think the arrival of Paddon has made it worse. He should change teams. Mikklesen has been the de facto number 3 at VW for so long, I think he drives for 3rd place, every time; he also would benefit from a change of scenery. Your comments about Ostberg, well, you're just piling on. He's at M-Sport, what the hell do you expect?
So what you're saying is that it's M-Sport's fault? They both need to take responsibility which neither are doing

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[RAS007]

So what you're saying is that it's M-Sport's fault? They both need to take responsibility which neither are doing

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

When was the last time M-Sport were truly competitive? Even Ogier couldn't make the Fiesta a contender.

[leighton323]

When was the last time M-Sport were truly competitive? Even Ogier couldn't make the Fiesta a contender.
When was the last time M-Sport had a decent driver?
Latvala? Hirvonen before he went to Citroën?



Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Here is a pressrelease from Østberg, in norwegian.
Someone maybe translate it If its interesting.
Its about the downshiftstroubles in his car.

https://bilsport.no/trobbel-for-ostberg/

[itix]

I am convinced that Ogier would still be world champion in the Msport. He'd complain his ass off but he'd still be champion.

[Oliverk]

I am convinced that Ogier would still be world champion in the Msport. He'd complain his ass off but he'd still be champion.

Of course he would be. You can't judge cars speed from Ostbergs times.

[itix]

Everyone else seem to...

[seb_sh]

M-Sport on the new car they're building for 2016: http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/10427-m-sport-to-build-brand-new-ford-for-2017-wrc

at the end it says it will be the new Fiesta.

also they are delayed because no chassis are available

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Here is a pressrelease from Østberg, in norwegian.
Someone maybe translate it If its interesting.
Its about the downshiftstroubles in his car.

https://bilsport.no/trobbel-for-ostberg/

I read this elsewhere... explains a lot.
But others here still wont believe and say he's just slow...

There's none so blind as them that dont want to see....

[leighton323]

I read this elsewhere... explains a lot.
But others here still wont believe and say he's just slow...

There's none so blind as them that dont want to see....
Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me

[Sulland]

Translated, for those that are not fluent in the world language Norwegian:
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=no&sl=no&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fbilsport.no%2Ftrobbel-for-ostberg%2F&sandbox=1

[dimviii]

so fiesta wrc has a problem at their shifting system,and nobody else has undersand it.
Even the guys were faster from Ostberg at same rallies with fiesta wrc cars.

[N.O.T]

When was Ostberg fast and we consider him slow nowadays, Ostberg was NOTHING throughout his career, he had some potential but he is where he is because of daddy support.

If we bring back Hirvonen he is going to be faster than Ostberg.

[RAS007]

When was the last time M-Sport had a decent driver?



Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk


Not for quite a while. And why do you think that is?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone else watched Ostberg's on-boards from Portugal and seen or heard any problems from the down-change/gearbox area ?

I've watched a few of the stages where he was complaining most and cant tell anything... I guess its all in the feeling.

Also cant compare with Tanak as the OB camera is behind the driver...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

When was Ostberg fast and we consider him slow nowadays, Ostberg was NOTHING throughout his career, he had some potential but he is where he is because of daddy support.



Ostberg 4th in the Driver's Championship in 2015, when he had a decent car (DS3)... 'Best of the rest' vs the mighty VW's.

If this makes Ostberg NOTHING, what does that make the others ?

[cali]

Ostberg 4th in the Driver's Championship in 2015, when he had a decent car (DS3)... 'Best of the rest' vs the mighty VW's.

If this makes Ostberg NOTHING, what does that make the others ?
It makes him consistent, less error prone than most his competitors. Speedwise he is average.

Sent from my ONE E1003 using Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

It makes him consistent, less error prone than most his competitors. Speedwise he is average.


Indeed, but again what does that say about his competitors?

This argument is like a broken record, Ostberg is slow, Ostberg is making excuses. YES! But apart from Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Sordo no one can claim in recent times to be "better" than him from a results point of view. Meeke and Paddon have potential but they need to fulfill it.

[dimviii]

Indeed, but again what does that say about his competitors?

This argument is like a broken record, Ostberg is slow, Ostberg is making excuses. YES! But apart from Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Sordo no one can claim in recent times to be "better" than him from a results point of view. Meeke and Paddon have potential but they need to fulfill it.

as a fan i really dont care if Ostberg finishes best of the rest.
I prefere Paddons Meekes,Tanaks and Kubicas.
Do you imagine a championship full of Ostbergs? Booooooring.
Imagine now a championship with full of Meekes Paddons and Kubicas.

[EstWRC]

dimviii hit the nail right here.

[seb_sh]

as a fan i really dont care if Ostberg finishes best of the rest.
I prefere Paddons Meekes,Tanaks and Kubicas.
Do you imagine a championship full of Ostbergs? Booooooring.
Imagine now a championship with full of Meekes Paddons and Kubicas.

Heheh, I know what you mean ;) the problem is Meeke and Kubica crash too much and Paddon is too new to comment.

Think about McRae or Makinen they crashed a lot but they also won a lot. So far Meeke and Kubica just crashed. Yes, Meeke is showing signs of going over that but 2 wins is too soon to judge.

I just mean in the last 3 years for various reasons Ostberg has been one of the best drivers. Having the 2nd or 3rd in the standings be a "boring" and "slow" driver unfortunately just shows the low level of the sport. But it's getting better, Ogier can be challenged by Mikkelsen, Paddon and Meeke. If at least one of them goes on Ogier's level we will forget about Ostberg.

[dimviii]

Heheh, I know what you mean ;)

no you didnt understant what i mean.
i prefere Meeke Paddon and Kubica as they are today.Not when they will? be champions.

[gorganl2000]

in my opinion, if tanak/meeke/paddon/latvala/kubica/mikkelsen type drivers adopted the approach of Ostberg and just drove for points instead of the win, then i feel they would be more reliable and consistent, BUT still be faster than Ostberg and relegate him down the driver's standing.

however, good sportsmen/women are not generally wired to settle for "second" spot. They must have that natural desire to win when the opportunity presents itself...its like a craving.

[seb_sh]

Alright, fair enough if you're interested about the spectacular driving, dimviii. But to me a top rally driver must also bring his car to the finish. McRae and Makinen could do it among all the crashing. Even Latvala can but for me Kubica unfortunately is not a good rally driver (but I hoped he would be), Meeke and Paddon maybe can be. That's not to say slow and steady are ideal WRC drivers, they are part of the picture sure, but the appeal of rally is having fast drivers that can finish a rally, otherwise it's pointless.

[Rallyper]

Saying it´s not spectacular seeing Ostberg on stages doesn´t make sence. Boring says the one who doesn´t se him live. He wouldn´t have been where he is without being enough spectacular. It starts to be boring when guys like Prokop comes, however even he can sometimes in some parts look spectacular.
Too generalising about what is spectacular.

Dimvii, you must excuse me, but once again we have absolutely different eyes to look at fast drivers.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Saying it´s not spectacular seeing Ostberg on stages doesn´t make sence. Boring says the one who doesn´t se him live. He wouldn´t have been where he is without being enough spectacular. It starts to be boring when guys like Prokop comes, however even he can sometimes in some parts look spectacular.
Too generalising about what is spectacular.

Dimvii, you must excuse me, but once again we have absolutely different eyes to look at fast drivers.

I don't think that the privates are boring. Sometimes they're the ones most spectacular. Groban was all over the place where I was in Marão. Not fast, ok, but good to watch. Same for Al-Rajhi. Prokop it's a bit more tidy up. Brakes earlier than the top guys, but very clean driving. About Ostberg, I can understanf that maybe the Fiesta it's not the best, but he seems a bit slower than the rest of the top guys. I only see fast spots on Saturday because I was working on the street stage on Friday and in the last jump on Sunday. But where I saw him, he was a little hesitant, brake a little earlier, etc etc. Ostberg it's a good second driver. The one that races for manufacters points, not for rally wins... and that's about it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

as a fan i really dont care if Ostberg finishes best of the rest.
I prefere Paddons Meekes,Tanaks and Kubicas.
Do you imagine a championship full of Ostbergs? Booooooring.
Imagine now a championship with full of Meekes Paddons and Kubicas.

Yeah its soooo boring to finish rallies and pick up points for your team.

If the other drivers did a bit more of this instead of crashing every other event they might put some pressure on the VWs.