M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I hope he didn’t curse him now

But yeah he has been very impressive so far, also credit to the team with the cars reliability. Seems they have learned from the past two years and indeed made the right adjustments

It's great to finally see some light at the end of the tunnel for Fourmaux, the team and the fans. There's been a tough couple of years and a lot of harsh criticism but none of them gave up and kept working hard and believing.

I hope the critics now give some credit where it's due, but I doubt it. They'll just stay quiet and wait to jump on any setback.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fourmaux interview on Portugal, time loss mystery and straight to the USA for simulator work for fast gravel...

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/a-fourmaux-tres-content-de-notre-rallye-portugal/

[mknight]

The difference in reliability of both the car and Fourmaux is indeed impressive.

For the car I wonder if this is due to less development/push for changes, compared to what seemed to be there with Tanak.

For Fourmaux he is much better at driving at little bit less than maximum push and keeping it on the road. That said pacewise he mostly goes around 5th place in similar conditions. Whether that is due to the car not being as fast as others or due to him backing is impossible to tell. Therefore it's kinda early to call him a finished article, especially after the big error in Croatia.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1805155131563864064/WniLAtob_400x400.jpg

M-Sport @MSportLtd

22 years ago, a record began.

Since then, M-Sport has achieved an astounding 300 consecutive manufacturer points-scoring finishes in the FIA World Rally Championship.

This week, during Rally Poland, the team will be celebrating this milestone accomplishment !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great piece on Dirtfish on how the 300 happened and thanks mostly to the perseverance of Mr Malcolm Wilson...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/how-wilson-hit-an-unbeaten-wrc-300/

[mknight]

The contrast to last year continues.

One thing is the reliability which I can understand usually improves over time.

What I struggle more with is the speed. Looking at both Fourmaux and Sesks it seems faster compared with competition than last year with Tanak driving. Assuming the drivers are not faster than Tanak this must mean the car is fast.

[doubled1978]

The contrast to last year continues.

One thing is the reliability which I can understand usually improves over time.

What I struggle more with is the speed. Looking at both Fourmaux and Sesks it seems faster compared with competition than last year with Tanak driving. Assuming the drivers are not faster than Tanak this must mean the car is fast.

I think Fourmaux said a few rallies back they have worked in the Ford simulator in the US and found some improvements, which stacks up when you see the speed is better. I still think they struggle on second pass through the ruts etc, they seem to lose some speed there. Biggest surprise for me was Fourmaux in Croatia, the car has previously understeered terribly on tarmac, but it looked good and his power stage run was exceptional, you don’t do that if the car is crap.
I’m not surprised at Fourmaux, you could see from way back his driving was very good, just the little costly errors in a difficult car, but now he has some experience and a better car, he’s doing great.

I wonder if Mikkelsen regrets turning down the full season with them now.

[mknight]

Sounds a bit like Ford used some of the ex-Tanak money on the car instead.

Good, the championship needs that there are more than two competitive teams, even if it's just 1 car.

With regards to team choices it is always difficult to predict. MSport has a recent history for match-ups made in heaven that turned out really bad, Tanak last year and Breen before. So it was always the riskier choice.

[doubled1978]

Sounds a bit like Ford used some of the ex-Tanak money on the car instead.

Good, the championship needs that there are more than two competitive teams, even if it's just 1 car.

With regards to team choices it is always difficult to predict. MSport has a recent history for match-ups made in heaven that turned out really bad, Tanak last year and Breen before. So it was always the riskier choice.

Yes exactly, the Championship needs all the cars to be competitive. Maybe after this season MSport might have more of a chance getting a good, solid pro to partner Fourmaux, 2 competitive Pumas would be great.
On that note, I was very impressed with Sesks this weekend, he seems to have a good attitude, was quick out of the blocks and didn’t bin it. We have seen guys step up from rally2 and just not be on top of the car, Munster is an example, he’s always a step behind the car, reacting to it rather than driving it. To be fair, this was probably his best showing yet, but Sesks looked like he had a better command of the car straight away. I hope he has a good run in the ‘full’ car in a Latvia and the pressure doesn’t overcome him.

[mknight]

MSport catching up might also mean that development at Toyota and Hyundai slowed down (cause they appear evenly matched).

If that is the case what might be the reason:
- Waiting for the rules decision
- Not easy to develop these cars further

Hope it's the second.

[doubled1978]

MSport catching up might also mean that development at Toyota and Hyundai slowed down (cause they appear evenly matched).

If that is the case what might be the reason:
- Waiting for the rules decision
- Not easy to develop these cars further

Hope it's the second.

I would think the second, the law of diminishing returns applies I suppose.
In very simplistic terms, Toyota have been very good at producing a neutral car that gives confidence, Hyundai went from an under steering car in the ‘17 spec, to a tail happy one and MSport did the opposite, tail happy to understeer. Hyundai with their resources, and drivers have improved quite a lot in a short space of time, MSport it has taken longer due to less resource.
I’m sure their is more nuance than that, but the way I see it, those are the broad strokes.

[mknight]

Sure after a while the improvements get smaller.

But still with the previous gen cars it looked like Toyota and Hyundai always kept improving (and MSport couldn't keep up after 2019).

Might be that the lack of active center diff, freeze on engine development and lower amount of testing is actually working?

[Eli]

Sure after a while the improvements get smaller.

But still with the previous gen cars it looked like Toyota and Hyundai always kept improving (and MSport couldn't keep up after 2019).

Might be that the lack of active center diff, freeze on engine development and lower amount of testing is actually working?

Well don’t forget Covid hampered them and while Hyundai & Toyota managed to keep up, M-Sport had a lot of their staff redundant so I’m sure that put them even further behind.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

/\
Thanks for all the positive comments people !

Fourmaux has certainly taken a great step this season and is almost on a par with the elite drivers (less than 0.2 sec/ km) as he states here:

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-driver-cements-his-place-at-the-top-i-can-fight-against-these-guys/

The Puma's speed and reliability has also been damn close to the others and there have been no complaints at all from any of the drivers (unlike Tanak last season). Even debutant Sesks was comfortable in the car and straight on good pace.

Its strange that the Team has finally been rewarded in the year when original expectations were so low. Long may it continue !

[macebig]

Mikkelsen (if he changes his mind) and Evans are pretty much the only realistic targets for M-Sport if they intend on having 2 fully competitive cars. Unless, Hyundai calls it quits and everyone is on the cards...

[skarderud]

I think several drivers without fulltime seats or wrc2 (Mikkelsen, Lappi, Solberg, etc), or drivers that don't deliver (Evans) looks to M-sport these days for next season, depends on money for most of them?
M-sport can run a 3 car team if someone can put in the money.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Eli]

Looking good, hopefully will deliver: https://dirtfish.com/off-road/dakar/fords-dakar-2025-challenger-unveiled/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GS1k5gjXYAATtHi?format=jpg&name=medium

Sign him up Malcolm ! :D

[dupanton]

Sign him up Malcolm ! :D

For sure he is good in Latvia and similar countries. But what has he proven on tarmac for example? Or even other types of gravel rallies? Just a genuine question, maybe I missed something, didn't follow him closely before.

[denkimi]

Sesks'es performance makes me wonder how many other drivers there are out there who could challenge the big names but just never get the chance.
Looking at his rc2 results he doesn't look really look like a future champion, but he seems to have mastered the rc1 immediately.

[Tauri_J]

For sure he is good in Latvia and similar countries. But what has he proven on tarmac for example? Or even other types of gravel rallies? Just a genuine question, maybe I missed something, didn't follow him closely before.

Not taking anything away from him but he was totally lost in Estonia, where roads are not flat.

[WRCStan]

Sesks was not at the sharp end in Canaries (https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/85480-rally-islas-canarias-2024/3987468/). Altitude, attitude, tarmac, very technical... all the things Latvia isn't. I think he knows it.

[skarderud]

Sesks'es performance makes me wonder how many other drivers there are out there who could challenge the big names but just never get the chance.
Looking at his rc2 results he doesn't look really look like a future champion, but he seems to have mastered the rc1 immediately.Thats my biggest point against these cars, the lack of youngsters and local heros in rallies.
No, they can't win WDC, but they can spice up theire local rallies in a way we miss.
Much more exitment and good stories than the usual 8 drivers brings out.


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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not taking anything away from him but he was totally lost in Estonia, where roads are not flat.

He joked at first about not having the Rally1 downforce he had in the Puma, but there were real reasons too.

Firstly the Yaris having continual issues with the pop-off valve losing him power. Second getting hit by heavy rain when some others weren't. And thirdly a puncture & wheel change.

[saepuru]

He uses MRF tires in the ERC, the extent of impact is uncertain, yet it could potentially play a role.

[denkimi]

Thats my biggest point against these cars, the lack of youngsters and local heros in rallies.
No, they can't win WDC, but they can spice up theire local rallies in a way we miss.
Much more exitment and good stories than the usual 8 drivers brings out.

a lot of people claimed that the times were changed, that youngsters and one-off local drivers could never challenge the regulars. They have all been proven wrong by sesks now.

Maybe a lot more local people should get a chance. imagine if hyundai had hired sesks her instead of lappi.

[Morte66]

It is surely worth remembering that he had perfect road position today, on a day that was all about road position, on his home rally, with stages that suit him.

I don't think Rovanpera, Ogier, Neuville, Tanak, Evans or Formaux would have anything to fear over a full season. Katsuta, perhaps.

He's better than Munster. If Serderidis is feeling flush...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It is surely worth remembering that he had perfect road position today, on a day that was all about road position, on his home rally, with stages that suit him.

I don't think Rovanpera, Ogier, Neuville, Tanak, Evans or Formaux would have anything to fear over a full season. Katsuta, perhaps.

He's better than Munster. If Serderidis is feeling flush...

Ok so some things were in his favour.

But remember this is only his 2nd event in a Rally1 car... and the first with the hybrid extra 130PS to learn how to use. Some of these guys have been driving these cars for 2.5 years !

[AndersX]

There are stories, that some time ago, around 2008-2009, in the first years of Pirelli Star Drive Mr. Vattanen had been sayind - they would be looking for pure and natural speed. Worth to note that in that year they chose Mr.Tanak.... What I want to say is that you can not learn the speed, but you can learn consistency and different surfaces. Martins definitely has the speed, plus seems that Puma simply suits him, what we can not say about Yaris R2. Last year he was super fast with Skoda, suddenly got slower with Yaris, but somehow miraculously got fast with Puma R1 again? What we should not do - overreact. With his drive, he has earned 1 or few rounds outside his natural habitat, e.g. some slow gravel rallies at first, i.e., i hope his sponsors will find the way how to put together part time season, some 4-5 events. We all know what has happened with Suninen, Solberg, Loubet and similar when they were given full seasons too early. Even Fourmaux is in the same boat - only with the second attempt. He got another chance after failing, but how many do not get that? So, lets be careful with what would like to see and just simply appreciate what Martins is doing now. I would be very surprised if he would be able to keep Ogier behind for another day.

[Morte66]

and the first with the hybrid extra 130PS to learn how to use. Some of these guys have been driving these cars for 2.5 years !
Yes, I'll certainly give you that. The way he seems as happy in the hybrid as the non-hybrid is noteworthy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rich Millener said today that they are looking to give more young drivers a foot in the door with a Rally1 drive.

I think that's mostly the WRC Promoter plus sponsors paying for it, but nice for M-Sport too to get extra coverage.

Plus it can make a great addition having other new faces creating a buzz at events they feel confident on.

[Backa]

a lot of people claimed that the times were changed, that youngsters and one-off local drivers could never challenge the regulars. They have all been proven wrong by sesks now.

Maybe a lot more local people should get a chance. imagine if hyundai had hired sesks her instead of lappi.

Sesks is 2023 ERC runner-up, who lost only to Paddon. Most countries hosting WRC rounds don't have local heros on that level.

One-offs for local drivers is cool idea but they wouldn't be challenging regulars too much. Look at Alberto Heller in Chile last year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A new behind-the-scenes documentary series coming soon from M-Sport...

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w28444_Coming-Soon:-More-than-Machine

[Paul Hudson]

We have seen M-Sport and Hyundai doing this stuff for a couple of seasons, even Kalle is doing his own stuff behind the scenes, so nothing new, IT will be interesting to see what the WRC come up with !!!,

[saco0o]

msport sold a non hybrid rally1 to someone in indonesia - or something like this
SEE? REMOVE THE HYBRIDS! Hyundai is quitting anyway and RedBullMediaHouse is seeling the series, whatever. QUIT THE HYBRIDS!! NOOOOW

haha

[deephouse]

Or make it open for full ICE, Hybrids, and EVs.

[Managarium]

New side air intakes tasted in PET Acropolis 2024.

https://i.postimg.cc/t49MtxR2/456233414-1075451974379997-7301848274681024273-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[mknight]

I think those were tested earlier as well but not run on a rally yet.

[Managarium]

https://i.postimg.cc/J0b605N8/456457433-1076464947612033-3418571055117073345-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Rallyest]

https://i.postimg.cc/J0b605N8/456457433-1076464947612033-3418571055117073345-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

So it looks something between Toyota's solution and Hyundais solution, not completely gone but not as big.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More than Machine - David vs Goliath Ep1

https://youtu.be/8Yrb7T7_2ks?si=H2U4FD6v2GilK7IJ

A great watch for rally fans and hopefully will attract non-rally fans to the WRC.

[Sulland]

Is the price of the Non-Hybrid Puma known by anyone on the forum?