M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[COD]

What a great they had yesterday….

[Sulland]

Loubet failed again.
M-Sport need to do something, to get a more robust team. They must have a good pointscorer in addition to Tanak.

[AndersX]

I think 2 tiny, but costly mistakes by Loubet is the least head ache for M- Sport. He was good , considering his limited experiance. Somehow these new R1 cars are very fragile - smallest contact - break.

Malcolms main head ache right now comes from the tone and words coming from Tanak , especially in the final interview - it was harsh! Clearly QC and supply chain values are not on the same level as for competing teams.

[macebig]

Eh, Malcolm isn't going to hold a grudge against Tanak. He knew fully well what he bought and everyone at M-Sport is fully committed into doing the best they can. Some tough love from Ott isn't going to break that effort.

[doubled1978]

Eh, Malcolm isn't going to hold a grudge against Tanak. He knew fully well what he bought and everyone at M-Sport is fully committed into doing the best they can. Some tough love from Ott isn't going to break that effort.

No, but Tanak is going to lose his humour with reliability issues every other rally. They need to up their game and quickly.

[EstWRC]

Tänak Ott - Järveoja Martin
"Hopefully we will not repeat this one any more. We need to do some changes - for sure we are not continuing this way."


Wouldn’t say it is harsh. And he is right, can’t have such a reliability problems anymore when you want to fight for title.

The competition is so tight this year

[Jarek Z]

I think 2 tiny, but costly mistakes by Loubet is the least head ache for M- Sport. He was good , considering his limited experiance.

Limited experience?! Loubet has been competing in WRC for 8 years! Much longer than Rovanpera...

[AndersX]

Limited experience?! Loubet has been competing in WRC for 8 years! Much longer than Rovanpera...

How many times he has driven Mexico? I watched those mistakes of his and neither of them could be called as stupid or overdrive. What we see in him is the rather mature material with good potential. Give him a season and he will constantly beat Taka and will compete with Huyndai's 3rd driver. He seems more leveled in head as any of M-Sports recent experiments.

[sinepikohv]

Limited experience?! Loubet has been competing in WRC for 8 years! Much longer than Rovanpera...

Wouldn't call two years "much" longer.

Yes, PLL did his first WRC event in 2015 while Kalle made his debut in 2017. Yes, both PLL's and Kalle's fathers were rally drivers and quite good ones too. But when PLL focused on circuits in his youth Kalle became a rally driver when he exited his mother's womb.

There is zero reason to compare Kalle's experience with other young or youngish rally drivers because Kalle is a unicorn. Kalle had millions invested in his rally career before he was able to grow a beard.

PLL has competed for eight years but he doesn't have a remarkable amount of rallies under his belt. He's pretty much the same age as Lindholm but Emil started earlier and has a lot more starts.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-and-puma-a-mis-match/

“I mean the car is there- the car has always been there. It’s just I think me and the car are a bit of a mis-match.
--
It’s probably a bit of a tricky topic at the moment, but we see what the guys can come up with.
--
Like I said, the car is there, and obviously the car is competitive in some other hands.
--
But just for me it’s not natural for me and I am not able to deliver with the car like I should. Let’s see.
--
We haven’t done any development yet so let’s see when some steps start to come in and if they come in then we will find out it is difficult to know. I’m not going to hang around just to drive for fifth so yeah for sure we’d like to push.”
- Ott Tänak

[Andre Oliveira]

I think 2 tiny, but costly mistakes by Loubet is the least head ache for M- Sport. He was good , considering his limited experiance. Somehow these new x R1 x Rally1 cars are very fragile - smallest contact - break.

Malcolms main head ache right now comes from the tone and words coming from Tanak , especially in the final interview - it was harsh! Clearly QC and supply chain values are not on the same level as for competing teams.

:smash::smash::smash:

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-and-puma-a-mis-match/

“I mean the car is there- the car has always been there. It’s just I think me and the car are a bit of a mis-match.
--
It’s probably a bit of a tricky topic at the moment, but we see what the guys can come up with.
--
Like I said, the car is there, and obviously the car is competitive in some other hands.
--
But just for me it’s not natural for me and I am not able to deliver with the car like I should. Let’s see.
--
We haven’t done any development yet so let’s see when some steps start to come in and if they come in then we will find out it is difficult to know. I’m not going to hang around just to drive for fifth so yeah for sure we’d like to push.”
- Ott Tänak

He said the same last year during one rally if I remember correct, that he and the car don’t match. (i think it was spain maybe?)

Let’s if the things get better or not. If not then I think this will be his last year in WRC

Seems the only car that REALLY matched him was the 2018-2019 Toyota and we saw the results then.

But overall it seems to me he is a bit overreacting IMO or the interview is done in the heat of emotions. He looked also pretty pissed in Deflis interview after the rally (but cmon, its just 3rd rally with the team and you have a win already under your belt)

[Rallyper]

It´s nothing wrong with Loubet. He needs same ecucation as every average top driver had in their developments.
As said Kalle, Loeb and Ogier are uniques, and those of you waiting for youngsters success, just be patient.

[AndersX]

He said the same last year during one rally if I remember correct, that he and the car don’t match. (i think it was spain maybe?)

Let’s if the things get better or not. If not then I think this will be his last year in WRC

Seems the only car that REALLY matched him was the 2018-2019 Toyota and we saw the results then.

But overall it seems to me he is a bit overreacting IMO or the interview is done in the heat of emotions. He looked also pretty pissed in Deflis interview after the rally (but cmon, its just 3rd rally with the team and you have a win already under your belt)

If Tanak will continue to complain about the car over and over and over again, soon everbody will start to take it with big scepticism. Those decisions about changing teams did nobody else but him self. Possibly with Yaris he would have been multiple champion already. He should have known about the state of Puma when signed the contract. Overall the result is better than it was expected. Better to start to change the topic.

[KertR]

Yes, but M-Sport was his only option after he quit Hyundai. Lets hope bad luck will stop and we can see some fights. Speed with Puma is there but again bad luck as you saw, only technical failures Rally 1 were at Tänaks Puma... 100% it is bad luck.

[macebig]

Thing is Hyundai had no willingness to adapt the i20 to Tanak's style (allegedly/apparently). M-Sport has every intention to do that with the Puma. We will see where that goes.

[AndersX]

Yes, but M-Sport was his only option after he quit Hyundai. Lets hope bad luck will stop and we can see some fights. Speed with Puma is there but again bad luck as you saw, only technical failures Rally 1 were at Tänaks Puma... 100% it is bad luck.
Failed turbo is not a luck or bad luck. How many failed turbines have you seen with Toyota and Hyundai? I think this goes down to supply chain, quality control, procedures etc. as soon as you are ought to cut corners because of time or money, these things surface up without any mercy. Possibly I am wrong here, though and this was just a coincidence.

[AndersX]

Thing is Hyundai had no willingness to adapt the i20 to Tanak's style (allegedly/apparently). M-Sport has every intention to do that with the Puma. We will see where that goes.

That is why i think that Tanaks PR people need to step up and ask to change the topic. I doubt there is anyone in M-Sport who doubts the purpose and actions or any fan or supporter who does not get that it will take some tome to gel with this car. But if you repeat as broken LP player the same pessimistic message over and over, then it loses creditability and gets opposite reactions.

[ouvreur]

That is why i think that Tanaks PR people need to step up and ask to change the topic. I doubt there is anyone in M-Sport who doubts the purpose and actions or any fan or supporter who does not get that it will take some tome to gel with this car. But if you repeat as broken LP player the same pessimistic message over and over, then it loses creditability and gets opposite reactions.

It's also a shame that the 'journalists' who follow the sport are stirring this pot ALREADY, three rallies and not even 1/4 of the year gone - https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-and-puma-a-mis-match/

They're the ones driving this narrative. They're every bit as responsible for creating the negativity around the man as he is himself. Instead of asking the obvious questions and sticking their finger in his eye, can they not try to come up with something a bit more nuanced and insightful?

You're right, of course - M-Sport and Team Tanak could and should be more proactive in setting the tone / explaining what topics of conversation are off limits, at least for now. But you'd have hoped the usual hacks who cover the sport would have taken a bit longer to go from wanking on about Ott 'coming home', to the doom and gloom we're already seeing.

[becher]

:smash::smash::smash:

Oh please don't be difficult. Shall we disallow all abbreviations?

[becher]

Do people still buy it? The only car in which Tänak didn't have mystery problems or that didn't fit him was a dominant one. I think that says enough.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak did test the Puma on gravel at M-Sport before he signed and went ahead.

Now he says him and the car are so far apart that he wants a radical change in design philosophy !

He should be keeping such comments behind closed doors.

[AndersX]

Tanak did test the Puma on gravel at M-Sport before he signed and went ahead.

Now he says him and the car are so far apart that he wants a radical change in design philosophy !

He should be keeping such comments behind closed doors.

Exactly! On the side note - i doubt Tanaks team (not M-Sport) are paying to any PR pro - those statements are getting toxic.

[cali]

Tanak did test the Puma on gravel at M-Sport before he signed and went ahead.

Now he says him and the car are so far apart that he wants a radical change in design philosophy !

He should be keeping such comments behind closed doors.Actually from the get go he said that changes are needed. And the only thing that pushed him away from Hyundai was the development process. He got that promise from M-Sport but it takes time.

And why's everyone bashing this interview when he says the car is good but not for his driving style. But when you look at some stages it's not that bad at all.

It's his stage end commentaries which are with a bad tone, this interview does sound like an honest assesment about the whole situation.

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[doubled1978]

This is starting to sound like Auriol and ‘The Feeling’….
Let’s see what MSport can come up with.

[cali]

This is starting to sound like Auriol and ‘The Feeling’….
Let’s see what MSport can come up with.Just let me remind you when Tänak got the car to his liking in TGR for JML it became undriveable

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[manthey]

Just let me remind you when Tänak got the car to his liking in TGR for JML it became undriveable

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Which setup needs Puma to match the style of Ott?

[becher]

Just let me remind you when Tänak got the car to his liking in TGR for JML it became undriveable

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I'd argue at least half of it was due to Latvala crumbling under a strong team mate.

[AnttiL]

I'd argue at least half of it was due to Latvala crumbling under a strong team mate.

And other personal issues

[cali]

I'd argue at least half of it was due to Latvala crumbling under a strong team mate.I'm not gonna argue :D

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[denkimi]

Thing is Hyundai had no willingness to adapt the i20 to Tanak's style (allegedly/apparently). M-Sport has every intention to do that with the Puma. We will see where that goes.

I've seen this being repeated time after time without anyone ever showing some hard evidence. Why would they pay millions to hire a world champion if they don't actually want him?

Look at it the other way, perhaps neuville is the only driver who is good enough to make the shitty hyundai look good.

[skarderud]

I've seen this being repeated time after time without anyone ever showing some hard evidence. Why would they pay millions to hire a world champion if they don't actually want him?

Look at it the other way, perhaps neuville is the only driver who is good enough to make the shitty hyundai look good.Better than Loeb?

No, not a chance.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Loeb does drive it will only be late in the season.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-no-immediate-plans-to-expand-2023-wrc-rally1-entries-/10449787/

[EstWRC]

Mexico roadbook. Interesting technical talk at 3.00 and Wilson holding his breath during Tänaks PS run at the end of the clip :D

https://youtu.be/gmTCLlr_U5Q

[er88]

If Loeb does drive it will only be late in the season.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-no-immediate-plans-to-expand-2023-wrc-rally1-entries-/10449787/All resources put into Tanak, only for the tinpot car to fail him anyway.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M.Wilaon says the Puma is still being tweaked to suit Tanak's driving-style. Changes to the diffs and engine are coming but will need homologation (jokers).

[EstWRC]

i know its easy to judge from behind the computer not knowing the exact reasons but they need to take things more seriously with the cars durability

its understandable if something breaks during the stage but to have the car with problems already since they are leaving service is ridiculous, and too many problems also during the stages for both drivers during 4 rallies

On the other hand, it was good to see they have made progress with both cars performance wise since Monte, i mean Rally1 and Rally2

[EstWRC]

"At the moment, it feels like the car works well only in a certain small window, and it's still difficult to understand where exactly this sweet spot is," Tänak told reporters in the media zone that the car's settings have not yet been perfected.

According to the Estonian, however, it is so difficult to fight for the title: "So far, we have somehow managed to stay within reach, which is positive in itself, but I am quite sure that it will not last forever if we do not find the speed to fight with our competitors," explained Tänak.

[Kras]

Look at it the other way, perhaps neuville is the only driver who is good enough to make the shitty hyundai look good.

How did you get to that conclusion when Ott finished in front of Neuville in 2 out of his 3 seasons at Hyundai?

[becher]

How did you get to that conclusion when Ott finished in front of Neuville in 2 out of his 3 seasons at Hyundai?

Look at all seasons together and check who was leading the team when the Rally1 was still underdeveloped.

[spyros]

for me it is noble desire, puma will never be at the level of yaris or i20.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Bittersweet podium for Tanak in Croatia...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc/croatia-podium-bittersweet-for-tanak/

Sounds like some progress at least.

[meh]

Bittersweet podium for Tanak in Croatia...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc/croatia-podium-bittersweet-for-tanak/

Sounds like some progress at least.

From performance point of view, gifts from Rovanperä (puncture), Ogier (puncture + penalty), Neuville (crash from the lead) gave them 3 places. Without all those mentioned ones he could be 5th and the sweetness could be gone from the title.

Tänak have said it many times - they somehow have managed to deliver results, but one can not expect this to continue without improving performance/reliability.

But some improvements for sure, especially in the fast and flowing roads.

[spyros]

i expect them to struggle in slow gravel rallyes like sardinia, greece etc...

[doubled1978]

i expect them to struggle in slow gravel rallyes like sardinia, greece etc...

Personally, I think on gravel Tanak will be ok so long as the car remains reliable, that’s a big if currently.

[mknight]

Speedwise slow gravel has been the best surface for the car.

Reliability seems at same poor level on all surfaces.

[AnttiL]

Speedwise slow gravel has been the best surface for the car.

Reliability seems at same poor level on all surfaces.

do we have reliability issues from fast gravel events?

[meh]

do we have reliability issues from fast gravel events?

I think most reliability issues are not surface specific

[AnttiL]

I think most reliability issues are not surface specific

different surfaces and conditions give pressure to different components of the car. But I don't recall any faults in the Puma in Estonia or Finland last year. Tarmac is smooth but the forces from the high grip put strain on the car. Technical gravel is bumpy with rocks and also usually very hot and dusty. Fast gravel rallies have jumps but typically less acceleration and braking, and less cooling problems due to bigger airflow and typically less heat.

[sinepikohv]

Personally, I think on gravel Tanak will be ok so long as the car remains reliable, that’s a big if currently.

I think it applies to all surfaces. When he started going fast and winning stages in Croatia the Puma started breaking. In Mexico the car broke pretty much at the start.

[sinepikohv]

Look at all seasons together and check who was leading the team when the Rally1 was still underdeveloped.

Let's look at the statistics in the three seasons Tänak and Neuville were in Hyundai together.

Tänak: 16 podiums including 5 wins.
Neuville: 15 podiums including 5 wins.

Those figures don't support your statement that Neuville is the only one who makes Hyundai look good. Tänak did it as well.

[EstWRC]

LOUBET CAN SEE WHERE HE’S LOSING OUT TO TÄNAK

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loubet-can-see-where-hes-losing-out-to-tanak/

[AnttiL]

Let's look at the statistics in the three seasons Tänak and Neuville were in Hyundai together.

Tänak: 16 podiums including 5 wins.
Neuville: 15 podiums including 5 wins.

Those figures don't support your statement that Neuville is the only one who makes Hyundai look good. Tänak did it as well.

Add to that Sordo’s success.

[becher]

Let's look at the statistics in the three seasons Tänak and Neuville were in Hyundai together.

Tänak: 16 podiums including 5 wins.
Neuville: 15 podiums including 5 wins.

Those figures don't support your statement that Neuville is the only one who makes Hyundai look good. Tänak did it as well.

As you can read in my statement, I didn't claim that Neuville made Hyundai look good on its own. I asked to look at the three seasons together and what you can see there are the stats you found and that Neuville scored more points (and about three more stage wins) in those three seasons together. They were fairly evenly matched in those times, except I'd claim that Neuville could extract more from the at first lackluster Rally1 in early 2022.

[mknight]

do we have reliability issues from fast gravel events?

Huttunen had first fuel pressure and then power steering issues in Finland.

Greensmith transmission in Estonia.

[er88]

Rich the ostrich

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-defends-its-reliability-record/

[meh]

Rich the ostrich

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-defends-its-reliability-record/

Concludes it very well how journalists spotlight changes the perspective.

Tänak is man of few words with no-filter attitude, maximalist with knowledge what he wants from the car - and if he is not happy, he says it out. And if journalists are not able or do not want or can not to ask questions in any other topic, it feels like there are only problems with the car.

Was it because of shifted-focus (Breen incident) or something else - but I think there were not that much complaining from Tänak in Croatia (this is how I felt, I did not do any stats for that :) )

I don't say that there are no problems - we all see that there are. But like Rich pointed out - everyone have problems and everyone are working to get them solved.

I hope drivers are earning wins because of good driving, not because if (not driver caused) technical failures. But it's technical sport, technical failures are part of it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rich the ostrich

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-defends-its-reliability-record/

Your constant sniping at M-Sport is just what Milllener is talking about. Some people cant wait to jump on them whenever there's an issue.

They forget that it's not a fully-factory team with unlimited £millions to throw at the car, like Toyota & Hyundai. And that they spent a lot of their budget paying to get Tanak in a Puma, which every fan of WRC should be grateful for...

[er88]

Your constant sniping at M-Sport is just what Milllener is talking about. Some people cant wait to jump on them whenever there's an issue.

They forget that it's not a fully-factory team with unlimited £millions to throw at the car, like Toyota & Hyundai. And that they spent a lot of their budget paying to get Tanak in a Puma, which every fan of WRC should be grateful for...

Millener is refusing to acknowledge in that interview that reliability has been a big issue since they launched the rally1 car. Tanak will be "sniping" for the rest of the season if they can't get on top of all the various niggly (or big issues) they have.

This is the top level, and Millener has already said some questionable things this season (even in regards to the rally2 car, which is apparently more setup issues according to him when they lose time - despite the fact everyone knows the engine has never been good enough and other big developments need to come).

Tanak wants the best

[EstWRC]

I agree with you.

He sounds like a 5 year old in that interview who denies he stole a candy, although he did

[the sniper]

They forget that it's not a fully-factory team with unlimited £millions to throw at the car...

I suggest any rally fan who is able to forget M-Sport's tale of hardship should head down to their Doctor and get their Alzheimer's diagnosed...

[EstWRC]

Croatia roadbook https://youtu.be/wUrCXYmj_gA

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I agree with you.

He sounds like a 5 year old in that interview who denies he stole a candy, although he did

Where does he do this ? I just see him admit (in your face) issues, but stating that others have had issues too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I suggest any rally fan who is able to forget M-Sport's tale of hardship should head down to their Doctor and get their Alzheimer's diagnosed...

Indeed... they forget as soon as the there's any kind of issue for M-Sport.

[Rallyest]

Any news about Ford's engine update? I remember reading somewhere that they were supposed to be installed from portugal onwards

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Some interesting info from M-Sport's James McMillan interviewed on a podcast after Rally Portugal:

* Tanak and Loubet have very different driving styles and their two gravel set-ups are actually diverging this season.

* Loubet is very comfortable in the Puma and has been since last year. Tanak's set-up is very different to all of last years Puma drivers (Loeb, Breen, Gus).

* His suspension issue (wooden horse) is being worked on by getting Reiger to develop different dampers.

McMillan also said that the public criticism of the car by Tanak at rallies are no problem and have been much worse in private.

[EstWRC]

Any news about Ford's engine update? I remember reading somewhere that they were supposed to be installed from portugal onwards

still no, Tänak said in an interview that they had new transmission in Portugal which helped a little, also said they tested many new things during Portugal PET

[TypeR]

Yet again

Ofcourse Loubet is comfortable in the car.. at that pace.
Let him push it to next level and he would say different things + maybe start listening what/why Tanak says about the car.

[trykmann]

Some interesting info from M-Sport's James McMillan interviewed on a podcast after Rally Portugal:

* Tanak and Loubet have very different driving styles and their two gravel set-ups are actually diverging this season.

* Loubet is very comfortable in the Puma and has been since last year. Tanak's set-up is very different to all of last years Puma drivers (Loeb, Breen, Gus).

* His suspension issue (wooden horse) is being worked on by getting Reiger to develop different dampers.

McMillan also said that the public criticism of the car by Tanak at rallies are no problem and have been much worse in private.Can you please share link the to the podcast?

Thank you!

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[dimviii]

Yet again

Ofcourse Loubet is comfortable in the car.. at that pace.
Let him push it to next level and he would say different things + maybe start listening what/why Tanak says about the car.

Loeb wasnt pushing?

[bluuford]

Loeb wasnt pushing?

Last year, all the cars had minimal development, actually, Hyundai had almost zero development in Monte. When you fist develop car, first steps are the biggest, then every development is less significant. In Monte (2022), Puma was far in front, in Portugal, They were very close to being Equal to Hyundai, only Hyundai was falling apart :P By Greece, I would say that Hyundai had passed already and good times came only because of good road positions. By New Zealand, Hyundai had passed and even good road position was not helping. Now Hyundai and Toyota are mostly in fine-tuning phase, time for Puma to catch up a little. Some brave and smart decisions are needed in development and all three cars will be very close to each-other soon. Have seen this process in many years with three different cars and I have quite positive feeling for the future:)

[cali]

Yes, it's very interesting that many of us here hardcore fans are so onedimensional when making some assumptions and discussions that they don't even consider all the smaller nuances to get bigger picture intact.

Thanks Bluuford!

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[mknight]

I don't share the optimism.

In 2020-2021 was Fiesta on same level as I20 and Yaris? Certainly didn't look like that.

As far as I understand there might be some difference in that the previous cars had many more setup/dif options so that more performance could be gained from a lot of testing.

[EstWRC]

TÄNAK: M-SPORT ‘ONE YEAR BEHIND’ ITS RIVALS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-m-sport-one-year-behind-its-rivals/

[Rallyest]

TÄNAK: M-SPORT ‘ONE YEAR BEHIND’ ITS RIVALS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-m-sport-one-year-behind-its-rivals/


I like how Rich always tries to push in the fact the Ford is actually on the same level as rivals, even when Ott clearly says they are very much behind

"“Ott continues to show us what both he and the car can really do,” Millener said."

I think they have come far on gravel since mexico, but clearly still they are not second because the car is good, a lot of luck and because ott has to push the car over the limit to be competitive, and even then Toyota pretty much runs over them.

[becher]

Can you please share link the to the podcast?

Thank you!

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+1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport engineer interview starts at 34 minutes in....

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3I0GUetKgQvojfi8nNkIyS?si=047cKy68R7qkFboouX8Vug&utm_source=copy-link

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As regards M-Sport gravel car being 'a year behind', it's really because they have had to start all over again with Tanak.

He didn't have 12 months in the car like Rovanpera, Neuville, Evans etc to get used to and develop it to his liking. Plus none of the previous Puma drivers set-ups suit his driving-style.

[EstWRC]

The amazing roadbook once again https://youtu.be/lpyujqCwGHw

IMO all teams should do something like that. Even Aaron Johnston admitting he is watching them

[EstWRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loubet-feels-hes-on-front-running-pace-is-he-right/

Yeah, sure….

[EstWRC]

Waiting for Milleners comments how amazing the car still is and pointing out that others had also problems like Neuville with handbrake problem

[Katvala]

Waiting for Milleners comments how amazing the car still is and pointing out that others had also problems like Neuville with handbrake problemI think both Loubet and Tänak would rather have a handbrake problem than the issues they had

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[er88]

Waiting for Milleners comments how amazing the car still is and pointing out that others had also problems like Neuville with handbrake problem

Waing for FastEddie to comment on how msport are plucky underdogs and Ford dont support them enough, so all these issues are excusable ;). Reality is they have built a tinpot, brittle Puma and havent managed to sort reliability since the cars inception. How Malcolm can say this is the best car theyve built is beyond me. And why Millener isnt under more pressure is alarming......, hes overseeing this mess and there have been no improvements

[Eli]

I would’ve sacked Millener long time ago…

[skarderud]

I'm not shure its only the puma's fault, rally is a sport that take care of the cars and tires is a big part of the game, some drivers are better than others on that game.
Everyone in M-sport knows that the car is a little weaker than the Toyota, than you can't go 110% all over.


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[ferrial]

I'm not shure its only the puma's fault, rally is a sport that take care of the cars and tires is a big part of the game, some drivers are better than others on that game.
Everyone in M-sport knows that the car is a little weaker than the Toyota, than you can't go 110% all over.


Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk
Tänak has said in many stage end interviews that he had not been able to go to the limit. What are you referring with 110% all over? Seems like Tänak has held himself back due to the car.

[skarderud]

Tänak has said in many stage end interviews that he had not been able to go to the limit. What are you referring with 110% all over? Seems like Tänak has held himself back due to the car.If you push over the limits all the time, then you drive at 110% .

To know where to not push is a part of the game.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Sulland]

But the car in Loebs hands did worked fine, and he liked it. So the potential is there.
If they wonder if the level of the Puma is still there, invite him to a test or a rally

So where are the top 2 areas Tanak feel the car needs to get improvements now?

[seb_sh]

But the car in Loebs hands did worked fine, and he liked it. So the potential is there.
If they wonder if the level of the Puma is still there, invite him to a test or a rally

So where are the top 2 areas Tanak feel the car needs to get improvements now?

In fact it kept falling apart in Kenya and he had to retire in Greece due to the alternator belt. In Portugal he crashed early in the rally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Waing for FastEddie to comment on how msport are plucky underdogs and Ford dont support them enough, so all these issues are excusable ;). Reality is they have built a tinpot, brittle Puma and havent managed to sort reliability since the cars inception. How Malcolm can say this is the best car theyve built is beyond me. And why Millener isnt under more pressure is alarming......, hes overseeing this mess and there have been no improvements

Your perennial 'tin pot' jibe is pathetic. You cant even come up with a new insult. And the only time you show up is to have a dig after an M-Sport problem.

M-Sport's situation compared to the financial might of Toyota and Hyundai is a matter of fact and needs no defence from me.

I believe they are doing their best under the circumstances and none of us knows the true complications of building and running these Rally1 cars on a limited budget.

[macebig]

So, we are now at the crucial point of the 2023 championship. Ford and Ott definitely need to step up their game. It's time to deploy whatever updates they have developed for the Puma and maybe call a certain Frenchman to support the campaign. If Rovanpera maintains the current points lead going into Acropolis,he has the title in the bag. Ogier is now nearly out of the picture and a sustained title challenge from Neuville looks a long shot. Kenya, Estonia and Finland are the deciders.

[Sulland]

Who are test/develpment drivers at M-Sport this season?

[focus206]

So, we are now at the crucial point of the 2023 championship. Ford and Ott definitely need to step up their game. It's time to deploy whatever updates they have developed for the Puma and maybe call a certain Frenchman to support the campaign. If Rovanpera maintains the current points lead going into Acropolis,he has the title in the bag. Ogier is now nearly out of the picture and a sustained title challenge from Neuville looks a long shot. Kenya, Estonia and Finland are the deciders.

Ford needs to step up its game, but even if they do, we would need 2-3 DNFs by Kalle just to have a proper title fight. If he continues his consistency (plus super speed in Estonia and Finland), nobody can touch him.

[macebig]

2-3 DNFs not yet. Tanak needs to bring the gap below 20 points by Acropolis. Then, it's everyone's game.

[EstWRC]

Loubet has had enough too

https://sport-postimees-ee.translate.goog/7790196/tanaku-tiimikaaslasel-on-lagunevast-fordist-korini-see-ajab-mul-sudame-pahaks?_x_tr_sl=et&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Rallyest]

Loubet has had enough too

https://sport-postimees-ee.translate.goog/7790196/tanaku-tiimikaaslasel-on-lagunevast-fordist-korini-see-ajab-mul-sudame-pahaks?_x_tr_sl=et&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=et&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://ralli.ee/tanaku-tiimikaaslasel-on-ford-puma-lagunemisest-juba-korini/
This one is free

[EstWRC]

That’s weird. I haven’t subscribed to Postimees and I could read that article for free

[Rallyest]

That’s weird. I haven’t subscribed to Postimees and I could read that article for free


Checked it now, and i thought it was behind a paywall, but it was actually because i didnt allow cookies and in that case postimees doesnt let you read their article you have to accept them first.

[EstWRC]

Sardegna road book

https://youtu.be/mboO5JX52N8

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/fourmaux-applauds-fiesta-rally2-progress/

[Jarek Z]

Ford and M-Sport announce a works-based assault on the Dakar Rally:
https://www.crash.net/dakar/news/1028780/1/ford-announces-full-works-programme-2024-dakar-rally-programme

[mknight]

Sounds like getting ready to leave WRC as manu.

[Roy]

Sounds like getting ready to leave WRC as manu.

M-Sport is long term partner of Ford Performance. The Ford ranger Raptor T1+ is one of the products they are involved. WRC off-course and the engine of Mustang GT3 for Lemans is also from M-sport. I don't see how you can read this that Ford may be leaving WRC. This all leads to fill up the gap where they are not involved yet.

"M-Sport will assemble the Ford Performance-developed 5.4-liter Coyote-based V8 engines that power this powerful new pony."
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2023/06/09/Ford-Formally-Unveils-Mustang-GT3-at-Le-Mans.html

"Today, Ford announced the time has come to fill that gap in its sweeping motorsports resume"
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/feu/en/news/2023/06/14/ford-performance-preps-to-race-ultimate-bad-ass-ranger-raptor-t1.html

[fiscorpun]

Awesome news! Can they also race that car in Baja1000? I dont remember if they actually raced the Bronco Project R already over there. (Not Msport built)

[dimviii]

does m sport has so many resources to enter this type of races?

[becher]

does m sport has so many resources to enter this type of races?
The Bentley programme is gone, Rally 1 and Rally 2 are smaller than they used to be.

[tommeke_B]

Grégoire Munster is set to drive Chile and Japan with a Rally1 car, sponsored by Serderidis.

[djip]

Grégoire Munster is set to drive Chile and Japan with a Rally1 car, sponsored by Serderidis.

I know this was planned from early on this year but it is way too early for this young fella. Still one more Rally1 car is good though ...

[Jarek Z]

I know this was planned from early on this year but it is way too early for this young fella.

Yes. I don't want to sound harsh, but with each rally he proves that it is too early. Half of the season is gone and he is currently in the 21st position in WRC2...

Good luck in WRC1 though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/millener-rages-against-m-sport-negativity/

"The alternative is straightforward: we could just walk away from the championship altogether."

[AndyRAC]

The criticism is nothing compared to major sports.....

[er88]

Once again this is Rich deflecting. Pointing at all the other teams problems is fine, but it comes across like his head is in the sand and he's in denial. The car isn't good enough, Tanak isn't happy whatsoever, reliability hasn't been good since the cars inception and there have been no real signs of improvement on that for a year and half.
Tanak can't get anywhere near 100% as even at 90% he's having to nurse problems, and that's before we get to the setup and performance development which he isn't happy with either. .
You see Serderitis crawling through stages and the car still breaks, which conveniently Rich Millener overlooked in that interview I noticed. It's not a witch hunt but focus on your own team and car Rich, and let the other teams deal with their issues. WRC journos and press are a lot kinder than F1 and other sports in general, due to wrc+ and even dirtfish being pally with the teams and drivers.

[seb_sh]

Useless blabber. Did anyone make a tally of actual technical issues? Maybe we should do an actual count and then we'll see if Malcolm's spokesperson has a point or not.

[macebig]

It may be better for WRC's future if M-Sport and Ford call it a day for a while. It will probably end Rally 1 on the spot and force everyone to sit down and talk about a realistic plan for the following years, instead of the useless crap we're listening now about even more expensive cars that aren't gonna do anything to widen WRC's appeal.

[becher]

Once again this is Rich deflecting. Pointing at all the other teams problems is fine, but it comes across like his head is in the sand and he's in denial. The car isn't good enough, Tanak isn't happy whatsoever, reliability hasn't been good since the cars inception and there have been no real signs of improvement on that for a year and half.
Tanak can't get anywhere near 100% as even at 90% he's having to nurse problems, and that's before we get to the setup and performance development which he isn't happy with either. .
You see Serderitis crawling through stages and the car still breaks, which conveniently Rich Millener overlooked in that interview I noticed. It's not a witch hunt but focus on your own team and car Rich, and let the other teams deal with their issues. WRC journos and press are a lot kinder than F1 and other sports in general, due to wrc+ and even dirtfish being pally with the teams and drivers.
The tone in F1 shifted to "everyone is great" since Liberty took over and online only magazines started to take over the market. It still a huge problem in rallying, but it's no longer alone with this.

[mknight]

The only positive thing at MSport the last 4 years has been Loeb starts.

Starts of everyone else turned bad sooner or later:
Lappi, Suninen, Greensmith, Fourmaux, Breen, Loubet, Tanak, (and Huttunen in his one start).

Yep at this point it might be better for MSport to just leave Rally1. It might force FIA to change the rules and/or work harder to get new real manus and not just half-teams.

[bluuford]

If you try to remember what happened in Kenya with Serderidis, it was that muddy stage. He hit the tree and that damaged the car. Every following problem was originating from this. I would say that reliability in Kenya for M-Sport for me was surprisingly good. Rich is right on that one. It was far-far better than Hyundai.

[Jarek Z]

The only positive thing at MSport the last 4 years has been Loeb starts.

Starts of everyone else turned bad sooner or later:
Lappi, Suninen, Greensmith, Fourmaux, Breen, Loubet, Tanak, (and Huttunen in his one start).

Oh come on! Apart from Tanak, most of them are just not good enough drivers. Have they performed better at any other team?

[meh]

Oh come on! Apart from Tanak, most of them are just not good enough drivers. Have they performed better at any other team?

I think Lappi as a driver is good, but is it just now or was he also back then, I'm not sure.

I would add, that probably most of them lack technical knowledge how to build or improve the car (compared to Tänak).

In general I think Tänak has set the tone with his critical comments towards team - some of them have really good arguments, some I think should be not be said. Now there is already strong momentum of the "knowledge" that M-Sport is not reliable, is not fast, is behind etc. Even commentators in All-Live kind of follow that message.

It was like that when Tänak was in Toyota, it was like that when Tänak was in Hyundai, it is like that now. For me it seems that Tänak is not that critical anymore with his public statements, maybe there have not been "good" reasons. But there is still this momentum going for some time.

[seb_sh]

Suggestion for Millener: instead of complaining on Dirtfish, getting some good results in the bag will quickly change the narrative.

[er88]

Yep, back to back good results for Tanak in Estonia and Finland needed. Think he needs a win in at least one of them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Kenya's biggest M-Sport / Tanak fan !

https://youtu.be/l99nZbg0CD0

[rpzcs]

Kenya's biggest M-Sport / Tanak fan !

https://youtu.be/l99nZbg0CD0

Thats awesome and wholesome! Props to M-Sport. I love their media team and their output. Really down to earth attitude.

[svstock]

Goodwood Festival of Speed 13.07-16.07.2023
In recent interview Ott Tänak told he is going to this event.
Most likely its with M-Sport so they are running WRC rally1 car up the hill on time attack or on rally stage.
The event showcases vehicles from 1902 to 2023 and celebrating motorsport and bike/car culture!

Hillclimb-Length (1.86 km/1.16 miles)
Forest Rally Stage-Length (2.5 km/1.5 miles)
F1 legends, Porsche's 75th anniversary, supercar debuts, 60 years of McLaren, 75 years of Lotus, 30 years of the Festival of Speed, Sebastian Vettel, Lando Norris, Oscar Piastri, MotoGP including Francesco Bagnaia and the legendary Goodwood Timed Shootout. Just some of the things that you can see this weekend at #FOS

It will be live streamed on youtube all days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1x2sVTm3EI

More info: https://www.goodwood.com/motorsport/festival-of-speed/

Confirmation
https://www.goodwood.com/grr/event-coverage/festival-of-speed/2023/7/ford-mustang-gt3-and-dark-horse-to-debut-at-2023-festival-of-speed/
https://i.imgur.com/vXsxDfQ.png

[svstock]

Official entry list added https://www.goodwood.com/globalassets/.road--racing/event-coverage/fos/2023/07-july/entry-list/public-entry-list-10.07.23.pdf

[trykmann]

Has anyone information about the usage of jokers on the Puma?

From one of Tänaks recent interviews he mentioned they have used some jokers already in the beginning of this year for differentials.

He did not mention if they had used all three of them on not. He said they have used more than one joker.

If they have used all of them, then I understand the disapointment.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

Official entry list added https://www.goodwood.com/globalassets/.road--racing/event-coverage/fos/2023/07-july/entry-list/public-entry-list-10.07.23.pdf

Mr Bean is already there :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b_FejjZ6dc

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Puma at Goodwood https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0-9aqrWIAIArde?format=jpg&name=large

[EstWRC]

Ott was fastest today in timed practice in very wet conditions

tomorrow is qualifying shootout but as i understand from Otts interview its Malcom driving tomorrow

[Tauri_J]

Looks like tomorrow’s action is canceled

[lmmjvss]

Eh..... what is the Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally that Msport is running in Goodwood?

[EstWRC]

Looks like tomorrow’s action is canceled

Yep. Today cancelled because of the weather

Tänaks run at 1.13 https://youtube.com/watch?v=dSoUIc8dN9Y&feature=sharea

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eh..... what is the Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally that Msport is running in Goodwood?

Its only rally inspired and is just a more off-road capable SUV.

Darren Palmer, Vice President of Electric Vehicle Programs, Ford “Now with Mustang Mach-E Rally, we’re providing our customers the freedom to venture off the asphalt and beyond the beaten path.”

[Norm75]

A friend has been yesterday and sent me some pics of Ott doing signings and of the puma. She has also been hanging out at the Toyota tent (has got a Yaris gr) and spent some time talking to Jari.

Has also been talking with Thierry. Said he is very friendly and willing to chat, and also has good sense of humour.

I live local ish to Goodwood, it is not even that windy as expected here today!

[Gregor-y]

Some friends have gotten electrics, including at least one Ford. It's still a bit too large and heavy for anything off of pavement.
I still haven't seen a decent electric car (or SUV) that looks like it can regularly drive on gravel that's not an outrageous "off road" caricature.

[Jarek Z]

More details about the new Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally:
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/07/14/rally-inspired-electric-thrill--new-ford-mustang-mach-e-rally-ch.html

[Kenneth]

Some friends have gotten electrics, including at least one Ford. It's still a bit too large and heavy for anything off of pavement.
I still haven't seen a decent electric car (or SUV) that looks like it can regularly drive on gravel that's not an outrageous "off road" caricature.

You haven't seen F-150 Lighting or HUMMER EV?

[becher]

You haven't seen F-150 Lighting or HUMMER EV?
I doubt a 4 ton batterie carrier like the Hummer is any good in real world off roading.

[EstWRC]

Worse than a village team

How come they have become so bad. Unbelievable

[Eli]

Worse than a village team

How come they have become so bad. Unbelievable

It's as if they saw Citroën after they left and said 'we wanna become just like you'...but being serious for a moment, I'm assuming brexit has hit them far worse than they initially realized, and it seems the help from Ford US isn't enough at this point. Don't know how else to explain it.

[seb_sh]

Citroen were never this bad.

[EstWRC]

Im just thinking what’s their purpose to be in this series?

You are last every year, you get a top driver and still you can’t things done

[Eli]

Citroen were never this bad.

I was only kidding.

[Kras]

Just pull the plug on this shit-team already.

When you aren't capable of anything but disappointing the fans, do us all a solid and just quit. Atleast that way you can kill the stupid rally1 regulation

[spyros]

Millener said that Ott is 3d in the chambioship only few points off the 2d, this team is a joke and as far as i remember we all was very happy when Ott has signed.\

[Sulland]

M Sport need to focus on their bread and butter; constructing and selling winning Rally5 to Rally2 cars!

That is normally the foundation for the top-dog class car.
Now they are behind the powercurve on bread and butter cars, and also the Puma Rally1 car that was good out of the box, but has not been updated as much as the others.

I am not sure, but from the outside Millener looks too nice, but he might be the right man, I dont know enough on that topic.

[denkimi]

I'm not sure why anyone had expected anything different from them. They are there to promote m-sport on the smallest budget possible, winning anything is only supplementary.

[er88]

Village team run by a village idiot. It's sad for the sport.
It's got to the point it's hardly worth criticising Millener anymore, he is so clearly out of his depth whether it comes to managing/improving young drivers or managing the technical and development side of the team. On top of that he has his head in the sand regarding reliability, which makes him look even more clueless when dealing with the media....
Is Malcolm even bothered anymore? He either needs to get back to taking on a proper hands on approach like when he signed Ogier, or replace Millener with someone with proper high standards who doesn't point at other teams problems to justify their own

[ceemic]

Estonian media writing that they changed Ott's car motor in Finland test: https://sport.postimees.ee/7821921/tanaku-mootoril-tekkis-soome-ralli-testil-probleem-tiim-pidi-jouallika-valja-vahetama

[Tauri_J]

No biggie, its a testing engine

[EstWRC]

Rally Estonia road book https://youtube.com/watch?v=WxErqwe__Rk&feature=sharea


The tyre change is hilarious

[Andre Oliveira]

I think it is time to M-Sport do like Škoda. Retire from Rally1 program and bet all resources in Rally2.

[Dontcut]

I think it is time to M-Sport do like Škoda. Retire from Rally1 program and bet all resources in Rally2.
They suck in Rally2 as well

[Managarium]

So, can we now tell that it would be a big surprise to see Tanak next season in M-Sport?

[Corcaíoch]

Realistically its very hard to see why any top driver would want to go there next year

[mknight]

Realistically its very hard to see why any top driver would want to go there next year

Yep.

On top of that they don't want to pay the "2nd best" drivers (like Suninen (2021), Lappi (2020) etc.).

For young and coming drivers MSport means ruining their career the last 3 years. Cause car breaks every second rally, is not on pace in between so when it works it's easy to do a mistake. Fourmaux and now Loubet experienced it.

That could leave the paying drivers (Loubet kinda is one) but they now go to Rally2 (or even Toyota -Bertelli) cause the car is so unreliable - see Greensmith and Solberg this year.

I repeat it again. At this point it is best for MSport to leave completely. That would force the end of Rally1 (rules require 3 teams) and something might change.

[Andre Oliveira]

They suck in Rally2 as well

Exactly. Let bet all in on it.

[Jarek Z]

They suck in Rally2 as well

So Rally3 then?

[bomber21]

Μ-Sport in a panic. I really do not understand why Millener makes a video complaining about internet trolls??? Jesus Christ, just ignore people comments on social media.

[Tauri_J]

That would force the end of Rally1 (rules require 3 teams) and something might change.

You sure?

[wyler]

They suck in Rally2 as well

that's a bit too harsh...the development got the rally2 car in the mix or very near. they definitely lack full-time drivers (expecially in erc).
sardegna was good and also here fourmeaux is keeping pace with the bests.

[becher]

Μ-Sport in a panic. I really do not understand why Millener makes a video complaining about internet trolls??? Jesus Christ, just ignore people comments on social media.

Where can this be found?

[TypeR]

Where can this be found?
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status/1687386654955241472?s=20

[seb_sh]

Does he not have enought things to take care of that he's checking social media?

[wyler]

Does he not have enought things to take care of that he's checking social media?

he has to do that!

we spend a lot of chat in here talking about media coverage, socials engagement, roi for brand. of course he have to "protect" his team against bad comments.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Everyone that slags off M-Sport will be the first to moan if they pull out and leave WRC with a two-horse race and less cars than ever.

At the moment they are having a tough patch but most people want them to succeed against the odds and financial power of Toyota & Hyundai. Plus Tanak is one of the biggest draws in WRC and he would/will be gone if it wasn't for MSport.

[Walach]

The rough patch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRGZmN6rjQE

The problem is that one of the biggest draws in WRC could be gone after this season anyways, just because M-Sport did not deliver at all.

[er88]

Just saw a split second clip of the Tanak retirement. What's he meant to do? Tinpot reliability.
The only criticism I could give him, was if he went against engineering advice and lowered the car beyond any reasonable risk

[Rallyest]

Im wondering has M-sport tried something with the engine, some upgrades that are possible without jokers, and it has gone south, because we didn't have these constant engine problems before Kenya, now it seems every time they roll out of the service park there comes some engine trouble after few km's

[mknight]

Can be also a hidden problem with a particular batch of parts like Skoda had last year.

[becher]

Or it could be a single engine failure in Estonia and a freak incident in Finland like the one Huttunen had in the same rallye.

It's rallying, stuff happens.

[mknight]

Loubet also had an issue in Finland, immediately after service, which makes it look less random.
He ran both passes of the non-PS stage in stage mode and on PS he complained that the engine was losing power trough the stage.

[Rallyest]

Loubet also had an issue in Finland, immediately after service, which makes it look less random.
He ran both passes of the non-PS stage in stage mode and on PS he complained that the engine was losing power trough the stage.

Also Tänak had to have engine replaced in Finland PET.

So seems like more than a coincidence to me

I checked and found the article

https://sport.postimees.ee/7821921/tanaku-mootoril-tekkis-soome-ralli-testil-probleem-tiim-pidi-jouallika-valja-vahetama

"Malcolm Wilson, the owner of M-Sport, confirmed to Postimeh that on Tuesday, Tänaku's car had a similar problem during the Finland rally test, and the machine had to have its power source replaced."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

After Tanaks amazing win in Finland last year in the i20, I heard many comments that he drove the doors off it and the car probably disintegrated shortly after the last stage.

Maybe that's his style now and he drives a car as hard as it can be driven and if it breaks it breaks.

I wonder if all his cars faults and unreliability going back to his Toyota days, through Hyundai, and now M-Sport, have one common denominator...

[EstWRC]

After Tanaks amazing win in Finland last year in the i20, I heard many comments that he drove the doors off it and the car probably disintegrated shortly after the last stage.

Maybe that's his style now and he drives a car as hard as it can be driven and if it breaks it breaks.

I wonder if all his cars faults and unreliability going back to his Toyota days, through Hyundai, and now M-Sport, have one common denominator...

it isnt his style, he said right after the Finland to Dirtfish he just drove like that cause there was no other way but he cant do it on other rallies and doesnt want to

dont make up your own BS

[Fast Eddie WRC]

it isnt his style, he said right after the Finland to Dirtfish he just drove like that cause there was no other way but he cant do it on other rallies and doesnt want to

dont make up your own BS

I didn't see that. What did he mean by 'he just drove like that' ? Like what, flat out and win or break the car trying ?

TBH I dont blame him as his frustration must be massive by now, after the years wasted not challenging for the title.

[steve.mandzij]

After Tanaks amazing win in Finland last year in the i20, I heard many comments that he drove the doors off it and the car probably disintegrated shortly after the last stage.

Maybe that's his style now and he drives a car as hard as it can be driven and if it breaks it breaks.

I wonder if all his cars faults and unreliability going back to his Toyota days, through Hyundai, and now M-Sport, have one common denominator...You're quite silly, because now Loubet also has reliability issues and doesn't drive it as hard as Tanak for sure. Plus, in the Toyota days it was also all drivers with issues whenever they struck Ott as well, so it was a car problem.

Being a fan is fine but don't kid yourself, it's okay to recognize that the Puma is no longer up to the challenge of it's rivals.

[cali]

I didn't see that. What did he mean by 'he just drove like that' ? Like what, flat out and win or break the car trying ?

TBH I dont blame him as his frustration must be massive by now, after the years wasted not challenging for the title.Before the 2022 Finland event just a day before the start his wife got very sick and checked into the Hospital in Estonia. Ott wanted to forfeit the rally but his wife urged him to continue and he had a different state of mind after that. He went absolutely mad on this event but this style isn't sustainable and he said that already during the rally back then.

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[becher]

You're quite silly, because now Loubet also has reliability issues and doesn't drive it as hard as Tanak for sure. Plus, in the Toyota days it was also all drivers with issues whenever they struck Ott as well, so it was a car problem.

Being a fan is fine but don't kid yourself, it's okay to recognize that the Puma is no longer up to the challenge of it's rivals.

You don't know how demanding Loubet is for a car. Slowish =! gentle to the car.

[becher]

Also Tänak had to have engine replaced in Finland PET.

So seems like more than a coincidence to me

I checked and found the article

https://sport.postimees.ee/7821921/tanaku-mootoril-tekkis-soome-ralli-testil-probleem-tiim-pidi-jouallika-valja-vahetama

"Malcolm Wilson, the owner of M-Sport, confirmed to Postimeh that on Tuesday, Tänaku's car had a similar problem during the Finland rally test, and the machine had to have its power source replaced."

The issue in Finland PET was like Estonia?

[Rallyest]

The issue in Finland PET was like Estonia?

Not much more info on this but from this article i read out that it was more or less the same yes

[becher]

Not much more info on this but from this article i read out that it was more or less the same yes
A well that would be different story then.

[Rallyest]

A well that would be different story then.


dont believe it is a coincidence that in 2 months, on 3 different occasions there are some mysterious "engine trouble" that had to have an engine replaced on 2 occasions we didnt have on the first half of the year.

[spyros]

Is it true that Ott leaves Finland after 1st day of the rally?

[Tauri_J]

Is it true that Ott leaves Finland after 1st day of the rally?

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cvh61rjI8lZ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[seb_sh]

Why would Ott leave MSport, he gets to spend more time with his family, as he wanted! jk

[bluuford]

Is it true that Ott leaves Finland after 1st day of the rally?

It is very common practice when someone retires that he leaves country as soon as possible, it has been the same in every team and every rally (seen that many times). And do not believe BS that French or other journalists are writing. Ott and Martin came to engineers office, talked to engineers, analysed what happened, even watched some rally and spent quiet a lot of time there, then shake everyone´s hand in office (including me) and then hurried to next ferry to Tallinn. It has been very intense period, time to rest a bit for everybody :)

[becher]

dont believe it is a coincidence that in 2 months, on 3 different occasions there are some mysterious "engine trouble" that had to have an engine replaced on 2 occasions we didnt have on the first half of the year.

Two of those for sure the one issue in Rally Finland, can very much be just a freak incident like it happend also to another driver in the same event.

[Allez Andruet]

And do not believe BS that French or other journalists are writing.

Tomi Tuominen also confirmed the story as total BS (https://twitter.com/T_Tuominen/status/1689645942373511169) as he was doing a live tv show for CMore while Tänak was chatting with the M-Sport mechanics in the background.

[rallyfiend]

Is it true that Ott leaves Finland after 1st day of the rally?

So did Malcolm....

[Rallyest]

Two of those for sure the one issue in Rally Finland, can very much be just a freak incident like it happend also to another driver in the same event.

I didnt count the Tänak Finland retirement since it has been sayd it was a hit that caused it, but i was reffering to Loubet's Sunday problems, it was right out the service so.

[Kenneth]

M-Sport have listed job offer for engine engineer on their website :)

[cali]

M-Sport have listed job offer for engine engineer on their website :)https://www.m-sport.co.uk/engine-engineer

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

My Life & Cars – Malcolm Wilson, rally driver and WRC team boss

https://www.evo.co.uk/features/206069/my-life-cars-malcolm-wilson-rally-driver-and-wrc-team-boss?amp

[EstWRC]

some gold from Millener again, i reallt dont get it why man with such a job has time to read comments on internet...

“I see a lot of comments on the internet like you know I do. I look at what’s going on, don’t necessarily take it all in but I think it just goes to show the difference between what you know on the inside of the team when you get the facts vs what can be perceived from the outside straightaway.

“The car was strong in Greece last year. Tänak’s great on Tarmac and we know it’s good on Tarmac having won in Monte Carlo and got good results, good performance on Tarmac.

speaking of results from over a year ago, a win in Monte Carlo 2022....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/millener-optimistic-for-the-rest-of-the-season/

[Eli]

some gold from Millener again, i reallt dont get it why man with such a job has time to read comments on internet...

“I see a lot of comments on the internet like you know I do. I look at what’s going on, don’t necessarily take it all in but I think it just goes to show the difference between what you know on the inside of the team when you get the facts vs what can be perceived from the outside straightaway.

“The car was strong in Greece last year. Tänak’s great on Tarmac and we know it’s good on Tarmac having won in Monte Carlo and got good results, good performance on Tarmac.

speaking of results from over a year ago, a win in Monte Carlo 2022....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/millener-optimistic-for-the-rest-of-the-season/

I wish Malcolm would give him the boot but that seems like a long shot at this point, and to think a couple of years ago we were physiqued about having Loeb in the car.

[TypeR]

50/50 about ,,the car was strong last year in Greece..''
Yes, two cars finished 4th and 5th, but..

Loeb had to retire because of alternator problem.
Greensmith retired because of some engine and technical issues..
Serderidis couldn't continue due to hybrid/technical problems.

Loubet didn't have to retire, but had problems with brakes, powersteering and engine also.

[Kenneth]

Malcolm should try to get Capito. Idk if he would want to return to rally, but is for sure less time-consuming than F1. And he was able to turn Williams into the right direction after many years of shit showing.

[seb_sh]

Last time Millener talked about keyboard warriors and I questioned if he has nothing better to do some poeple said it's his job to protect the company. Again he shows he's not fit by mentioning the same thing again, wasting time and energy while simultaneously making himself look ridiculous. Him mentioning Greece last year is the cherry on top. Greece where they had Loeb and his car let him down again while fighting at the top, like in Kenya. Now it could be all coincidence but this issues keep on happening.

Here's a hint Mr Millener: by aknowledging them in an interview you're only making the internet trolls stronger, maybe they're writing nonsense and have no clue what's going on inside the team and why the engines are failing, maybe they have a point as these keep happening. It doesn't matter, the fact is your cars are not finishing rallies. If you want to silence the trolls the only way is to shut up do a better job and get some podiums and maybe a win in the last rallies.

[wyler]

Last time Millener talked about keyboard warriors and I questioned if he has nothing better to do some poeple said it's his job to protect the company. Again he shows he's not fit by mentioning the same thing again, wasting time and energy while simultaneously making himself look ridiculous. Him mentioning Greece last year is the cherry on top. Greece where they had Loeb and his car let him down again while fighting at the top, like in Kenya. Now it could be all coincidence but this issues keep on happening.

Here's a hint Mr Millener: by aknowledging them in an interview you're only making the internet trolls stronger, maybe they're writing nonsense and have no clue what's going on inside the team and why the engines are failing, maybe they have a point as these keep happening. It doesn't matter, the fact is your cars are not finishing rallies. If you want to silence the trolls the only way is to shut up do a better job and get some podiums and maybe a win in the last rallies.

i was one of them, still am. and yes, he will keep doing the same stuff. m-sport runs on reputation, and this is not aimed at the internet troll. he's not acknowledging them, it's just normal stuff for his role washing his brand from sponsor's anxiety. we can't be fools and think that these people are talking to the fans when they tell such crap. it's just business. marketing is all, even here in the forum, we know it very well. honestly, most of the sponsors care less about the results than the internet reputation, "i like the blue car" wins over "m-sport was P1, 2 or x".

[Steve Boyd]

some gold from Millener again, i reallt dont get it why man with such a job has time to read comments on internet...But is it really him, or have MSport got an AI Chatbot? :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

i was one of them, still am. and yes, he will keep doing the same stuff. m-sport runs on reputation, and this is not aimed at the internet troll. he's not acknowledging them, it's just normal stuff for his role washing his brand from sponsor's anxiety. we can't be fools and think that these people are talking to the fans when they tell such crap. it's just business. marketing is all, even here in the forum, we know it very well. honestly, most of the sponsors care less about the results than the internet reputation, "i like the blue car" wins over "m-sport was P1, 2 or x".

I agree with a lot of this and I do have some sympathy for Millener. Social media is massive nowadays and he is a fairly young guy and very aware of it unlike his boss, Mr Wilson. The attacks can be very painful, especially if their not seen as fact-based.

However the reputation of the firm and the 'blue cars' cant be helped at all if they're often breaking down and sometimes not even restarting.

[EstWRC]

Im wondering has M-sport tried something with the engine, some upgrades that are possible without jokers, and it has gone south, because we didn't have these constant engine problems before Kenya, now it seems every time they roll out of the service park there comes some engine trouble after few km's

Joker spent on engine https://x.com/llluis555/status/1691446821514874880?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[Alpine-110]

M-Sport need new talent in. Impressed by Olivier, he should get a rally2 and next year rally1 program

[skarderud]

I'm afraid a young driver can ruin his/her career in wrong car/team, it can of course go well too.

Depends on driver probably, if its oliver doing bad people will blame the car, if he doing good he is next god.
If its"wrong'' driver, i don't mention his name, he is useless if its going bad, if its going good, the car is much better again....

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

M-Sport need new talent in. Impressed by Olivier, he should get a rally2 and next year rally1 program

if i would be Oliver i would definitely go for Toyota Rally2 seat and some outings in Rally1 car instead of M-sport

M-sport would be the second choice for him i guess because of the history with Hyundai and Thierry

[AMSS]

Joker spent on engine https://x.com/llluis555/status/1691446821514874880?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Map change

[denkimi]

if i would be Oliver i would definitely go for Toyota Rally2 seat and some outings in Rally1 car instead of M-sport

M-sport would be the second choice for him i guess because of the history with Hyundai and Thierry
The question is not where Oliver wants to go, but just as much which team wants him. It seems toyota's lineup is pretty solid with rovanpera, evans and katsuta. But perhaps in a 4th car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport Ford Puma Rally1 takes to the stage in Aberystwyth

https://www.raliceredigion.co.uk/articles/v/79-m-sport-ford-puma-rally1-takes-to-the-stage-in-aberystwyth/

[satnav]

A video on YouTube about the early days of the Escort Cosworth, it also looks at Malcolm Wilson Motorsport the forerunner of Msport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMx5mQzfGGU

[sete]

Nice video

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcXQAA-cPM?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcXwAAALmA?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcWUAAxW2O?format=jpg&name=medium

[dimviii]

A video on YouTube about the early days of the Escort Cosworth, it also looks at Malcolm Wilson Motorsport the forerunner of Msport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMx5mQzfGGU

if you search the forum you will find a Biasion interview with a lot of talk about Escort Cosworth.

[Kenneth]

https://ralli.ee/pierre-louis-loubet...stal-ei-jatka/

Translated by Google Translator:

Pierre-Louis Loubet: "Ford will probably not continue next year!"

Once again, the season has reached the point where M-Sport has to find funding and new tricks for next year to continue the road to the World Rally Championship with the Ford Puma Rally1.

Ott Tänak's teammate Pierre-Louis Loubet, who has been with M-Sport for the second year, admitted to the French publication that the situation of Malcolm Wilson's team is critical at the moment. According to the Frenchman, we will no longer find the M-Sport team on next year's WRC calendar.

"There will be only two teams in the WRC next year. We showed good speed, but Ford has little chance to continue in the World Championship. The teams must inform the FIA ​​of their decision by the end of September at the latest, and then we will know more precisely. The promoter wants each team to add one car. Toyota already has four, and Hyundai could also put out a fourth in the best case scenario. Would I be in that scenario too? I don't know," said Loubet.

"Ford is now focusing on endurance rallying and has cut WRC funds. Ford has actually been the team's sponsor and partner all along, but he no longer invests as much as before," admitted the Corsican in an interview with a French newspaper.

[bomber21]

Wow

[rp]

Not a suprise, because this year was all or nothing and M-Sport failed badly. Ford is not interested anymore that kind of job. Their support has been much better than M-Sport wants to tell. Of course not enough and that´s why no chance against Hyundai and Toyota.

[TypeR]

Not a suprise, because this year was all or nothing and M-Sport failed badly. Ford is not interested anymore that kind of job. Their support has been much better than M-Sport wants to tell. Of course not enough and that´s why no chance against Hyundai and Toyota.
From Ford's side it would be totally understandable if they quit supporting.
Ofc budget wise M-Sport can't compete with Hyundai or Toyota, which means less staff, engineering, aero/technical updates etc..
But it doesn't mean they can't build a car that doesn't fall apart all the time(lately they can't even finish testing, SD or first stage without failing).
Let it be a bit slower, but reliable and able to finish rallies without stupid problems.

Although I really hope they stay.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

FAKE NEWS

In case anyone missed it on the other thread, this not true and Loubet did not say this at all.

[macebig]

People need to calm down a bit. Ford participates in WRC since Day 1 and have been through all kinds of situations all these years. It's not their first bad season. Surely, the signing of Tanak created expectations that haven't been met. But, to go from a tough season to calling it a day is a big stretch, especially now that they're partnering with RB in a large scale (which icymi, is still WRC's promoter).

[bomber21]

FAKE NEWS

In case anyone missed it on the other thread, this not true and Loubet did not say this at all.
So what is this garbage website that released this fake interview?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So what is this garbage website that released this fake interview?

French publication, Corse Matin. Ralli.ee quoted it and now explain.




https://ralli.ee/loubeti-jutt-m-spordi-lahkumise-kohta-pani-sotsiaalmeedia-kihama/

[seb_sh]

So a "journalist" got an interview with Loubet and then went on to add things like he was on this forum in the silly season thread. "Nice".

[meh]

Laughter from Tänak.

Google translated from the article: https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120229943/delfi-video-ott-tanak-kreeka-ralli-eel-loodaks-jouda-kaugemale-kui-esimesed-kaks-katset
"Tänak had a lot of bad luck both at Rally Estonia and the following rally in Finland. What goals has the Estonian set for the Greece rally? "I would hope to go a little bit further than the shakedown and the first stage. We have already taken a step forward since the shakedown was cancelled. Hopefully we can drive at least a clean rally and restore the rhythm," continued Tänak."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So a "journalist" got an interview with Loubet and then went on to add things like he was on this forum in the silly season thread. "Nice".

Seems to be a small general newspaper published in Corsica. They must've just interviewed PLL as he is from Bastia.

Maybe the journo didnt know rally so well and misunderstood his meaning re not knowing what M-Sport would do next year.

[JAM]

Seems to be a small general newspaper published in Corsica. They must've just interviewed PLL as he is from Bastia.

Maybe the journo didnt know rally so well and misunderstood his meaning re not knowing what M-Sport would do next year.

Or Loubet and journalist with a bit of ingeniuty talked (and wrote) about how things are going right now...

[bomber21]

I see Tanak so demotivated. He is just waiting the season end to lewve the team.

[AndersX]

I see Tanak so demotivated. He is just waiting the season end to lewve the team.

Yes, yes..or no, he is paid solid money and need to fight whatever it takes and stop complaining all the time. It was his decision to chase big money and go to strange Hyundai, then it was his decision to conflict with Hyundai and act like princess and go to M-Sport. All his decisions! Let him retire and give a seat for someone hungry and motivated. He will stay as 1x champ bcs of his business decisions and attitude.

[bomber21]

Yes, yes..or no, he is paid solid money and need to fight whatever it takes and stop complaining all the time. It was his decision to chase big money and go to strange Hyundai, then it was his decision to conflict with Hyundai and act like princess and go to M-Sport. All his decisions! Let him retire and give a seat for someone hungry and motivated. He will stay as 1x champ bcs of his business decisions and attitude.
Loubet is hungry and motivated but he cant even start the rally because …they do not even know what the problem is.

[TypeR]

Serderidis also problems with car.. engine issues from YESTERDAY.

Whatt are they doing there..?

[Rallyest]

Yes, yes..or no, he is paid solid money and need to fight whatever it takes and stop complaining all the time. It was his decision to chase big money and go to strange Hyundai, then it was his decision to conflict with Hyundai and act like princess and go to M-Sport. All his decisions! Let him retire and give a seat for someone hungry and motivated. He will stay as 1x champ bcs of his business decisions and attitude.

trying not to sound too estonian, but tell me 1 person who is waiting for a Rally1 seat and is faster than Tänak. Why should he retire if the speed is obviously there but the car isnt.

[EstWRC]

Yes, yes..or no, he is paid solid money and need to fight whatever it takes and stop complaining all the time. It was his decision to chase big money and go to strange Hyundai, then it was his decision to conflict with Hyundai and act like princess and go to M-Sport. All his decisions! Let him retire and give a seat for someone hungry and motivated. He will stay as 1x champ bcs of his business decisions and attitude.

Sadly your pain will continue. He confirmed he will continue

[AndersX]

Sadly your pain will continue. He confirmed he will continue

I am happy about that, in fact, but this "oh..he is not motivated..bla bla bla" BS need to end. He is a paid pro, a champion, get your head down and work. Yes, this car is a sh..., but at least the best looking sh... there ( by far). Drive to make nice pics and videos for fans and sponsors, at least. 😀

[skarderud]

trying not to sound too estonian, but tell me 1 person who is waiting for a Rally1 seat and is faster than Tänak. Why should he retire if the speed is obviously there but the car isnt.Seems he's not very motivated, but that was the same at Hyundai.
Hard to read:)

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

All 3 Pumas have had issues already, Tanak has something leaking around the engine area, trying to fix it in the tyre fitting zone...

[EstWRC]

And people complaining him not having motivation…

[bomber21]

Tanak still trying to fix the car….

[rp]

Bye, bye M-Sport. Better to stop.

[EstWRC]

Bye, bye M-Sport. Better to stop.

I agree. What’s the point of this to be in this series

[bandit12]

My expetations were quite low, but... Holy fuck.

[JAM]

The Puma engines are MSport or from an external supplier?

[Eli]

I agree. What’s the point of this to be in this series

Next time I’ll listen to you and won’t put Tänak in my pickems.

[Tom206wrc]

What a catastrophical season for M-Sport :eek: ;(

[Tom206wrc]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcXQAA-cPM?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcXwAAALmA?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5MvmgcWUAAxW2O?format=jpg&name=medium


So maybe Alberto Heller would not even reach the finish line of his home event... :s

[seb_sh]

So maybe Alberto Heller would not even reach the finish line of his home event... :s

The finish? maybe not even the start...

[Kras]

Lol at Ford still willingly putting their badge on this shitwagon

[Rallyest]

I'm sure, that today was the last straw and after this season Tänak wont continue in M-sport, Question is will it be Hyundai or Toyota. He say'd he is continuing and having conversations with all teams, question is who wants him or wants him more Toyota or Hyundai, i think it comes down to what Ogier will do.

[cali]

So maybe Alberto Heller would not even reach the finish line of his home event... :sThe question is if he can manage to get to the start of the rally or the car breaks down after leaving service park

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[er88]

"Best car theyve ever built" -Wilson

"But but...., other teams have had some reliability issues toooooo" - Millener

An absolutely disgraceful two years for msport. Its a real shame for the wrc when we are already lacking cars. I could say more, but I dont want to upset Fast Eddie anymore

[cali]

Soon we will have Rich on telly telling everybody's too critical, about unreasonable bashing on social media and that everything is fine and the guys are giving 100% effort...

Sent from my CPH2493 using Tapatalk

[denkimi]

It's weird to see so so many problems for them. It's not like this is the first engine they build, even if there is a big flaw they should have found and fixed it by now.