M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[mknight]

I don't find it strange that Breen can be signed by MSport. I do find it strange it would be announced and he would drive Puma after Acropolis and before Finland.

[er88]

All this is just speculation, but I would still expect Breen to drive the Puma for the 1st time after Finland as well. However we haven't seen his contract and it might not be as watertight as full time drivers contracts can be. Is he on a pay-per-event deal or a yearly contract?

I think Malcolm let Ogier have a run in the C3 while he was under contract at Msport iirc (although that was probably with the hope Ogier would be put off by the C3).

If Msport will be running the Puma in Greece after the Acropolis, maybe Adamo has just taken the view of what difference does it really make if he let's Breen drive the car? Breen is going there anyway and will test the car soon enough regardless, and it's not like Breen is NOT going to be fully motivated to end his Hyundai career on a high in Finland. If Adamo was pissed at his elite drivers Tanak or Neuville leaving to Msport, maybe he would block a test in that case, but Breen? That's a bit different.

[AnttiL]

Finland is likely Breen's last event with Hyundai, quite likely the contract is announced after that. He might still get to do a secret test beforehand. Could also be that Hyundai ties him to the end of the year instead of letting him test the car freely before the end of the year.

[mknight]

Connected with that is that I find it strange MSport would test the Puma again barely 2-3 weeks after testing in Sardinia (gravel) and France (tarmac).

Anyway if Breen is leaving, I'd say Adamo has all kinds of reasons to be pissed, cause he has a real problem finding a driver for next year that won't make the team much weaker than this year.
No way Solberg is able to fight for podiums regularly next year, like Breen was (on the selected rallies), but it will likely end that way because nobody else will fit and be interested:
- Lappi would fit, but if given the choice he for sure will rather go to Toyota.
- Mikkelsen at Hyundai imo won't happen unless Adamo leaves as rumored.
- Suninnen? that's a bit long shot right now, maybe if he does well in Finland + at least one other rally before the end of the year
- the way Huttunen is threated by Adamo I doubt he will even get a chance to drive the WRC next year on some event

Anyway at least this would still apply for basically anyone but Sordo:


Adamo Says
'All I want next year is to nots keep hearing drivers saying - All I want is a full season next year'
#AdamoSays next year #WRC

https://twitter.com/AdamoSays

[Danny0405]

Would be more logical to see Breen leaving and testing after Finland (especially with Spain and Monza remaining where Sordo would be more logical) but as it is human relations, it is always difficult to know.
Maybe that Hyundai considers that Breen is absolutely not a title contender on a full-time season because of his results with Citroen so they don’t care of him testing early if he has decided to leave.
Maybe it is to make some money savings for the last months of his contract.
Maybe it is to thank him for the job done.
Maybe it is to keep good relations with M-Sport for the future (Fourmaux?)
It may also help to test another driver in one of the two last rallies.

About his replacement at Hyundai, I’m not that worried for them as opportunities exists (then, the question will be if they choose the good one): Sordo remains a good option for a shared car and almost all the drivers available have a good complementarity with him for a shared car so it is a good basis to begin with (all the more with a Neuville-Tanak duo in the other cars).

Mikkelsen and Ostberg are experienced drivers and remained in WRC-2, their last part-time season in WRC was rather good (Ostberg 2018 and Mikkelsen 2019) and they are quite equal (they could take Ostberg if Mikkelsen signs with M-Sport with Breen); the only difference is that Mikkelsen knows Hyundai.
I think the situation is different than 2 years ago for Mikkelsen and Hyundai as they may need each other (for Mikkelsen, not finding a job in Rally1 next year would probably mean he will never come back).

Suninen is a bet but the fact of having Sordo may lower the risk. Let’s see what he does on Finland.

For Solberg, too early as you said but maybe Adamo has already make the choice.

They could also attempt a huge offer for Lappi (2 years contract full-time for exemple) which may beat Toyota (who gives only one-year part-time as they think about Katsuta for 2023). But if they have not do it for Breen, I don’t think they will do it for Lappi.

[abcrally]

For sure we don't know details of driver contracts but normally full time / full season driver is contracted until Dec 31st. This might not be the case for Breen who has been offered by Hyundai only 2-5 WRC events per season. So I'm quite sure there won't be any issues for him to test Puma Rally1 car soon.

[er88]

Anyway if Breen is leaving, I'd say Adamo has all kinds of reasons to be pissed, cause he has a real problem finding a driver for next year that won't make the team much weaker than this year.

I'm not sure how pissed he can be though. This situation is his doing, so if he is pissed surely he can only really be pissed at himself?

If he was desperate to keep Breen he could've offered him a full time seat in the last few months (and I'm sure Breen would've signed - Breen has mentioned numerous times how happy he is within the team - besides being part time).

So no reason to be pissed at Breen for taking a full time seat and potentially the security of a 2yr deal, or any reason to be pissed at Msport. It's not like Malcolm has pinched Tanak or Neuville from Hyundai. So what real harm would actually come from "maybe" allowing Breen and Msport to do one test while in Greece?

[mknight]

Adamo seems to make split decisions based on his mood quite often, sometimes also seemingly illogical ones, so just about anything is possible.

Anyway I feel there is something more to the story, hopefully we will get details at some point. (also still a bit early to speculate too much with no confirmation).

[Andre Oliveira]

Fourmaux splits partnership with Jamoul. Gilsoul next codriver?

[cali]

What's up with these sudden co-driver changes? Quite insane amount of changes recently

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

What's up with these sudden co-driver changes? Quite insane amount of changes recently

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

My advanced theory:

In 2020 rallying stopped, lot of (co-)drivers did something else and now when rallying resumed and they went back they realized they now prefer "something else". (children, education, business w/e....) or they now don't approach rallying with same commitment level (and drivers don't like it).
In case of drivers you don't see it stand out so much, you just simply don't hear about them. In case of codrivers it's much more public cause drivers stay with different codriver.

Also co-drivers make much less money than drivers, so it might be more tempting to do something else. (or demand higher salary like Gilsoul seemingly did)

[BigWorm]

Fourmaux splits partnership with Jamoul. Gilsoul next codriver?

Would be a very good choice. Gilsoul has experience, multiple winner at the top. But salary?

[M3 Jambo]

[QUOTE=BigWorm;1283014]Would be a very good choice. Gilsoul has experience, multiple winner at the top. But salary?[/Q
I'm sure Gilsoul wouldn't have to pay MSport too much to get the gig

[denkimi]

https://www.autosportwereld.be/2021/09/15/wrc-jamoul-en-fourmaux-scheiden/

According to this jamoul says its because of their too different character.

[Rallyper]

Would be a very good choice. Gilsoul has experience, multiple winner at the top. But salary?

Would be for Oliver as well.

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes. He said on Facebook.

[dupanton]

(or demand higher salary like Gilsoul seemingly did)

He didn't ;)

[er88]

Malcolm saying there's already more interest from customers in the Puma than they've had with the current WRC. Potentially 5 cars out early next year and able to run.

Hopefully Greensmith is considered a customer and privateer, they really shouldn't be going into next season with him in the manufacturer team

[macebig]

Doubt there will be 5 Pumas at RMC. Probably 3. Maybe later in the season a 4th one if they agree on something with Loeb or Mikkelsen. 90% the trio at Monte will be Fourmaux, Breen and Greensmith.

[AnttiL]

Doubt there will be 5 Pumas at RMC. Probably 3. Maybe later in the season a 4th one if they agree on something with Loeb or Mikkelsen. 90% the trio at Monte will be Fourmaux, Breen and Greensmith.

You don’t get it. He’s talking about customer cars. It could be Loubet, Serderidis, Kremer, Al-Qassimi etc

[macebig]

Gryazin is the only viable customer currently. Maybe Loubet if they persist. No one else can do an extended WRC schedule right now.

[AnttiL]

Gryazin is the only viable customer currently. Maybe Loubet if they persist. No one else can do an extended WRC schedule right now.

Not full seasons maybe but different customers for different events

[bomber21]

M-Sport Ford Roadbook Greece
Acropolis Rally
https://youtu.be/DuFb_XKE35s

[mknight]

M-Sport Ford Roadbook Greece
Acropolis Rally
https://youtu.be/DuFb_XKE35s


Idea is interesting but has 2 major issues:
- sound
- editing

For sound: sure it's hard to make good sound when people far from camera speak, when that happens add some texting?

Editing: 1/2 of the clip is people walking by with random comment completely unrelated to anything. How about instead doing 1-2 questions/commentsabout what is going on?

[Danny0405]

Not full seasons maybe but different customers for different events

I would say a mix of customers’ type.
Probably a third car with a full-Time or part-time (shared with Loeb and Mikkelsen) paying driver (Greensmith if full season, Gryazin if part-time)

A fourth car with one (or maximum two) paying drivers for the full season with some potential (Greensmith, Gryazin, Loubet, Bulacia, ...)

And the fifth one shared by various «*old*» gentlemen drivers all along the season such as Bertelli, Serderidis, Kremer, Prokop,

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Welcome to M-Sport, Craig ! :bounce:

https://www.wrc.com/images/redaktion/Season-2021-NEWS/WRC/October/061021_MSport-CraigBreen-2021_003_860d2_f_1400x788.jpg

[Jarek Z]

The new car for Craig is ready!
https://pl.motorsport.com/rajdy/news/breen-w-escorcie-wrc/6681929/

[wwbroe]

According to Spanish important newspaper MARCA there would be a deal between 9 times world champ Seb Loeb and Ford. He would drive some rally's in a shared car with Gus Greensmith.
The deal would have been approved by Prodrive, Loeb's current employer.

[dupanton]

Belgian Speed Magazine (biggest belgian motorsport magazine) just announced as a "scoop" that Loeb will do 6 rally's in the Puma Rally1

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCPX7V0WQAErrLY?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Belgian Speed Magazine (biggest belgian motorsport magazine) just announced as a "scoop" that Loeb will do 6 rally's in the Puma Rally1

https://m.facebook.com/SpeedMagazineBe/?_se_imp=1BDd0t8vKEgpp9bR6

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe the story started here...

https://www.motorpasion.com/otras-competiciones/sorpresa-sebastien-loeb-ficha-m-sport-para-volver-a-correr-mundial-rallyes-ford-puma-rally1/

[macebig]

So, Croatia, Spain, Japan, the rumored NI asphalt event and what else? Portugal and New Zealand? Pretty extended schedule, tbh.

[AnttiL]

I could see Loeb doing Safari.

[Andre Oliveira]

Red Bull Ford Performance WRT

[doubled1978]

I’m sure Msport would prefer more gravel rallies so he can benefit from road position….

[Eli]

So, Croatia, Spain, Japan, the rumored NI asphalt event and what else? Portugal and New Zealand? Pretty extended schedule, tbh.

Perhaps, MC, Croatia, Safari, New Zealand, Spain & Japan? Just guessing of course.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Red Bull Ford Performance WRT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCSu_l7X0CU9o9g?format=jpg&name=medium

[pantealex]

Perhaps, MC, Croatia, Safari, New Zealand, Spain & Japan? Just guessing of course.

No Monte, it clashes with Dakar which is Loeb´s priority 1.

[AnttiL]

Does not clash, they are just quickly after each other. He did the same in 2019 and 2020?

[rp]

It´s possible to do both Dakar and Monte, but of course a tight schedule, but Loeb is still young... :)

[Eli]

Does not clash, they are just quickly after each other. He did the same in 2019 and 2020?

Yes and he finished 4th and 6th respectively.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport rally team HQ tour - the perfect gift for any Motorsport Fan !

"Please note that due to ongoing vehicle development, photographs will only be allowed of 'display / museum' cars. We also do not expect to be able to view the 2022 Rally1 cars on any of our visits before the start of the WRC season."

:(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The best-looking 2017-era rally car - farewell Fiesta WRC ... :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEkM21oXsAsP3Ge?format=jpg&name=large

[Danny0405]

Now, we have to wait and see for the squad for next season.
1st car is clear with Breen full-season.
For 2nd car, as far as I understand, Greensmith is full-season. Not the best option fast-wise but, in M-Sport situation, the best performance-money ratio and personnally, I think he is not that bad (for example, considering the car, I don’t find him worst than Katsuta’s season)

Not clear after that. Hope Fourmaux to have a full-time seat even if he does some mistakes by the end of the year but I think more of a 10-round program or something like that (probably 2-3 rounds for Loeb and maybe Sweden for another driver such as Huttunen)
Loubet is evoked, not really convinced by his season and don’t really understand how he can obtain additional budget, but not idiot in a 4th car.

[macebig]

Ford will have 5 cars during the season. 3 Pumas full time for Fourmaux, Greensmith and Breen, a 4th shared between others (rumored Huttunen/Loeb) and a 5th car for whoever pays like Loubet/Kremer/whoever.

[mknight]

One number that says it all.

Stage wins in 2021:
Hyundai 114
Toyota 105
MSport 1 (ONE)

On last stage before PS on Safari where almost everyone was saving tires, stage only run once and the most rough of the day.

[abcrally]

One number that says it all.

Stage wins in 2021:
Hyundai 114
Toyota 105
MSport 1 (ONE)

On last stage before PS on Safari where almost everyone was saving tires, stage only run once and the most rough of the day.

Cool. That stat could look totally different at the end of 2022.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One number that says it all.

Stage wins in 2021:
Hyundai 114
Toyota 105
MSport 1 (ONE)

On last stage before PS on Safari where almost everyone was saving tires, stage only run once and the most rough of the day.

Tons of mitigating reasons why that you should all know.

[mknight]

Cool. That stat could look totally different at the end of 2022.

I hope so.

Recent signings don't give me much confidence in that though.

Then again it basically can't look worse.

[macebig]

Looks like a Puma door hasn't yet closed for Mikkelsen...
https://mobile.twitter.com/anlauto/status/1463573848721432580

[rp]

Looks like a Puma door hasn't yet closed for Mikkelsen...
https://mobile.twitter.com/anlauto/status/1463573848721432580

Of course not. If you have money...

[Andre Oliveira]

9x

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFBWgCqXIAA5bRd?format=jpg&name=900x900

[macebig]

Loeb to Ford appears to be a done deal. Programme TBD.
https://as.com/motor/2021/11/25/mas_motor/1637842947_559529.html

[mknight]

The Puma testing car seems to have quite a lot of empty space in the wheelarches for tarmac spec car.

[becher]

The Puma testing car seems to have quite a lot of empty space in the wheelarches for tarmac spec car.

Could be for aero reasons.

[ictus]

Could be for aero reasons.
Yeah sure... If you want to have worse aero you make the gaps bigger, and the ride height taller;)

[becher]

Yeah sure... If you want to have worse aero you make the gaps bigger, and the ride height taller;)

Haha, ride height and wheel arche design are not strictly related. An enclosed wheel arch that is not sufficiently vented produces a lot of lift, if the regulations don't allow for openings (see Yaris CD stack as a prime example) to vent the pressure, one solution is to make the gap between the wheel and the arch bigger (see TC1 cars from the WTCC). It might sound counter intuitiv, but a lot of aero stuff does.

[lluisva555]

Haha, ride height and wheel arche design are not strictly related. An enclosed wheel arch that is not sufficiently vented produces a lot of lift, if the regulations don't allow for openings (see Yaris CD stack as a prime example) to vent the pressure, one solution is to make the gap between the wheel and the arch bigger (see TC1 cars from the WTCC). It might sound counter intuitiv, but a lot of aero stuff does.

I guess they could find better solutions... such as the internal conduct at the rear of the new Toyota GR Yaris Rally1, an alternative to the CD stack

2199

[becher]

I guess they could find better solutions... such as the internal conduct at the rear of the new Toyota GR Yaris Rally1, an alternative to the CD stack

2199


Yeah sure that can be a solution all though it is probably not a golden ticket in terms of drag either as its a bit of a bottel neck with a high pressure region somewhere. Also seems like a loophole they found as there was this talk about "no internal ducting"?

[lluisva555]

Yeah sure that can be a solution all though it is probably not a golden ticket in terms of drag either as its a bit of a bottel neck with a high pressure region somewhere. Also seems like a loophole they found as there was this talk about "no internal ducting"?

Right, it is possibly the less bad solution. I also thought about regulations when I saw it. If they're able to use it, it's probably because FIA allowed them and other teams agreed, or... Hope this does not cause any controversy in the future

[mknight]

On the latest test Yaris also has quite a lot of open area behind the front wheel (but not in the back, likely due to the duct).

Hyundai has much less space everywhere, but their final bodyshell might look quite different.

[macebig]

If you combine all the rumors, they are probably on course for 6 Pumas by the end of the year.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-privateer-targeting-a-2022-wrc-puma-rally1-program/

[lmmjvss]

A nice Panda, eh
https://youtu.be/6omLFgu4kRg
This is super cool.

[Fitz]

A nice Panda, eh
https://youtu.be/6omLFgu4kRg
This is super cool.

Yes & if it keeps the factory busy & motivated then it’s a good move. I see it has just been motd in late Oct !

Whose is it ? Come on someone must know the inside story !

[AnttiL]

It's promotion to launch M-Sport Special Vehicles (MS-SV) which is their latest department of the M-Sport umbrella. Basically you can order a custom car from them, like this one.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/retro/mamma-mia-m-sports-turned-90s-fiat-panda-300bhp-rally-car

BTW, this reminds me of the story a few years back where someone on this forum claimed that M-Sport as a rally team will be renamed as MS-RT...when will it happen? :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

My M-Sport Supporters Club card (and baseball cap) were emblazoned with 'MS-RT'.

I asked why and they said it also stood for M-Sport Rally Team.

[Sulland]

https://www.ms-rt.com/

[AnttiL]

My M-Sport Supporters Club card (and baseball cap) were emblazoned with 'MS-RT'.

I asked why and they said it also stood for M-Sport Rally Team.

Maybe the person replying to you has not known, but MS-RT is M-Sport Road Technologies and they've been a "sponsor" of the WRC team for many years, so it's likely that the "sponsorship" has applied to the supporter club as well. Like you can imagine having "Shell Hyundai WRC Team Supporter Club" or "Microsoft Toyota Gazoo Racing Fan Club"

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe the person replying to you has not known, but MS-RT is M-Sport Road Technologies and they've been a "sponsor" of the WRC team for many years, so it's likely that the "sponsorship" has applied to the supporter club as well. Like you can imagine having "Shell Hyundai WRC Team Supporter Club" or "Microsoft Toyota Gazoo Racing Fan Club"

If we have to go over this again... the M-Sport guy said it ALSO stood for M-Sport Rally Team.

M-SPORT SUPPORTERS’ CLUB – LAUNCHED BY POPULAR DEMAND

Due to the incredible support received throughout the 2017 season, M-Sport are launching a Supporters’ Club to welcome the team’s most passionate fans and friends to the M-Sport family.

To reward the team’s most dedicated supporters, the newly-formed “MS-RT Supporters’ Club” will keep fans in the loop with all of the latest news and offers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOgMRyqWAAAifSR?format=jpg&name=medium

[AnttiL]

I asked my buddy who works for M-Sport and he said MS-RT means road technologies and they like to print that on clothes because it's targeted at normal consumers.

But it's not a big deal, you can keep believing if you want, let's not continue this further.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I asked my buddy who works for M-Sport and he said MS-RT means road technologies and they like to print that on clothes because it's targeted at normal consumers.

But it's not a big deal, you can keep believing if you want, let's not continue this further.

My last word - MS-RT is the only thing on the Supporters Club card -
"MS-RT Membership Card".

[er88]

Put the shovel down

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And the reverse says MS-RT Supporter's Club.

[bandit12]

Please stop it allready. Nobody really cares

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Long interview with Craig Breen and Paul Nagle:

https://youtu.be/cQ7ZoghqUQQ

Loads of info on their careers, the Citroen days with Meeke, Hyundai and Adamo, Rally GB N.Ireland, plus the 2022 prep for Monte with the Puma.

[macebig]

Notice the date at the end.
https://fb.watch/9TiQBM9Xw-/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGg6lFBXEAUIz95?format=jpg&name=large

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/FordPerformance/status/1470445295381225479?s=20

From this video

[Paul Hudson]

Way Ahead of everyone else in Testing .

[cali]

Because they sacrificed this season, this is by no means a surprise. Everyone here now are stating obvious things. But this doesn't not necessarily mean that the Puma is the fastest de facto. Although they have the most experience with the car everything else remains to be seen.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[er88]

Decent podcast that with Breen and Nagle, regarding the new car. Can tell he will miss the current 17 cars though...

Ofcourse we know a little of what went on with Citroen and certain arrogance/mistakes in design and development, but they both really bit their tongue. Especially Nagle, saying he won't comment further until he's retired as it would cause as much controversy as the Max/Lewis F1 finale....

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4FkhXoAIFgXT?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4GLTXoAkHVzW?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4GfSX0AUFiJi?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://youtu.be/f3AueWRO_7w

To celebrate producing 1 million vehicles at our Craiova plant, we invited the @MSportLtd and @FordPerformance Puma Hybrid Rally1 car to the party. Turns out, the Puma was a bit of a party-wrecker and wanted to misbehave. The resulting film is much fun!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Compare and contrast ... ;)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGvnayNXwAY9_-S?format=jpg&name=large

[mknight]

I don't see MSport written anywhere on that car. Interesting.

[TypeR]

nice in blue!
video is like from Fast and Furious movie :D


ps, no MS-RT logo either.. maybe under the car.

[macebig]

The Ford Performance livery looks good on the Puma. Won't be used for the season, obviously. Ah, and if anyone was still looking on confirmation that Fourmaux continues, here it is.

[Andre Oliveira]

Official presentation livery of Ford it is.

https://scontent.fopo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/267443832_5201221703240548_8066341240992351694_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=s5YP5RBX5XIAX8c4xPF&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-Qw0vQ9nkhl90jiBJVWbt2Eccj-DcTpyY-EX97R4uwoA&oe=61BFAB43

[mknight]

ps, no MS-RT logo either.. maybe under the car.

It's not Matchbox

[denkimi]

I don't see MSport written anywhere on that car. Interesting.
I hope they get involved more.

But i have that hope for many years now, and it's always a dissapointment.

[AnttiL]

I don't think that's the livery we'll see in WRC...

[Andre Oliveira]

For sure not.

[Eli]

I don't think that's the livery we'll see in WRC...

Still, I hope they keep those rims, they look pretty mean imho.

[abcrally]

I hope they get involved more.

But i have that hope for many years now, and it's always a dissapointment.

Anybody still thinks new Puma Rally1 was developed with M-Sport's (private team) money?

No. Ford Performance promised good support when new (Rally1 / Hybrid 2022) regulations were announced.

Ford wouldn't have involved more if the old regs (WRC2017) would have continued.

[mknight]

Anybody still thinks new Puma Rally1 was developed with M-Sport's (private team) money?
.

I didn't see anyone doubting that, definitely not after Goodwood this year.

What I and many others wonder is how can Ford, after using not insignificant ammount of money, be satisfied with MSport using Greensmith as #2 driver ( and to a lesser extend Breen as #1).

But hey, there is still hope they announce Tanak soon.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anybody still thinks new Puma Rally1 was developed with M-Sport's (private team) money?

No. Ford Performance promised good support when new (Rally1 / Hybrid 2022) regulations were announced.

Ford wouldn't have involved more if the old regs (WRC2017) would have continued.

Ford paid and allowed the use of its PF facilities, but the mechanics and engineers at M-Sport did most the the actual work. They are the rally car manufacturer not Ford.

[TypeR]

What I and many others wonder is how can Ford, after using not insignificant ammount of money, be satisfied with MSport using Greensmith as #2 driver ( and to a lesser extend Breen as #1).

You don't get tired with the same story over again, huh..?

[mknight]

You don't get tired with the same story over again, huh..?

You don't get tired with the MSport excuses on why they run a B team over again, huh..?

[TypeR]

You don't get tired with the MSport excuses on why they run a B team over again, huh..?
..because Tanak, Ogier, Neuville and Evans have signed contracts and they don't want the all mighty Mikkelsen.

[wyler]

I didn't see anyone doubting that, definitely not after Goodwood this year.

What I and many others wonder is how can Ford, after using not insignificant ammount of money, be satisfied with MSport using Greensmith as #2 driver ( and to a lesser extend Breen as #1).

But hey, there is still hope they announce Tanak soon.

'cause they sell car, not drivers. as strange it may sound in our bubble, general public doesn't care who is driving a car, and also if the car is p1 or p5. it's just wow effect that sells cars. just as the yesterday video. 90% of casual viewers was hit by the car, not by the driver. same (million) people that follow block social media (selling fords not so long ago) never cared about his wrc result. marketing wise 1 mil view on audi electric is many much worth than any ogier title winning clip.

[WRCStan]

Anybody still thinks new Puma Rally1 was developed with M-Sport's (private team) money?

No. Ford Performance promised good support when new (Rally1 / Hybrid 2022) regulations were announced.

Ford wouldn't have involved more if the old regs (WRC2017) would have continued.

I've yet to see the rule that says you can't develop a Rally1 without manufacturer support or approval.


What I and many others wonder is how can Ford, after using not insignificant ammount of money, be satisfied with MSport using Greensmith as #2 driver ( and to a lesser extend Breen as #1).

I can rely on the Loeb rumours now, what bigger name could Ford want? Doesn't matter really if he's only doing a part-season, they'll get enough clips and images.


But hey, there is still hope they announce Tanak soon.

This is one rumour I can't rely on.

[er88]

So who will they nominate for manufacturer points? Breen, Loeb and Fourmaux?

[mknight]

..because Tanak, Ogier, Neuville and Evans have signed contracts and they don't want the all mighty Mikkelsen.

The number of drivers faster than Greensmith is much bigger than those you listed. So is the part of them that didn't have contract when they signed Greensmith.

That is if speed/results was the goal.

[mknight]

'cause they sell car, not drivers. as strange it may sound in our bubble, general public doesn't care who is driving a car, and also if the car is p1 or p5. it's just wow effect that sells cars. just as the yesterday video. 90% of casual viewers was hit by the car, not by the driver. same (million) people that follow block social media (selling fords not so long ago) never cared about his wrc result. marketing wise 1 mil view on audi electric is many much worth than any ogier title winning clip.

I mostly agree with you, but it only goes to a point.

The majority of casual viewers don't care if the car gets 2 wins or 10. But if the car becomes a laughing stock that never got any good result, it spreads Even faster these days than in the past.

If they get some podiums and maybe 1-2 wins per year, that is for sure enough for Ford. (say like 2003-2004 season). But I don't think a season like 2021 would work with a new car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The number of drivers faster than Greensmith is much bigger than those you listed. So is the part of them that didn't have contract when they signed Greensmith.

That is if speed/results was the goal.

Get over Greensmith being an M-Sport driver - he is paying and this allows both him and M-Sport to be in WRC.

And they have signed Breen as their choice of 'best of the rest'. Wait and see how this turns out and then criticise.

[WRCStan]

"Finally, the M-Ford Team will enter 3 or 4 crews with Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1s, whose names will be officially announced next week."

https://acm.mc/en/edition-en/rallye-monte-carlo-en/monte-carlo-2022-closure-of-registrations/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FG6AbOdWUAMIlQy?format=jpg&name=large

[wyler]

I mostly agree with you, but it only goes to a point.

The majority of casual viewers don't care if the car gets 2 wins or 10. But if the car becomes a laughing stock that never got any good result, it spreads Even faster these days than in the past.

If they get some podiums and maybe 1-2 wins per year, that is for sure enough for Ford. (say like 2003-2004 season). But I don't think a season like 2021 would work with a new car.

again. will spread in our bubble. normal people entering their car dealer and seeing a nice pic on the wall, will never know if it was good or not.

[wyler]

"Finally, the M-Ford Team will enter 3 or 4 crews with Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1s, whose names will be officially announced next week."

https://acm.mc/en/edition-en/rallye-monte-carlo-en/monte-carlo-2022-closure-of-registrations/

wrc confirmed 11 rally1: 4 toyota, 3 hiunday, 4 fords
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/eleven-hybrid-rally1-cars-expected-at-monte-carlo/

[Mirek]

wrc confirmed 11 rally1: 4 toyota, 3 hiunday, 4 fords
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/eleven-hybrid-rally1-cars-expected-at-monte-carlo/

Jan Verney... lol, it's Černý :D

[CWJ]

"Finally, the M-Ford Team will enter 3 or 4 crews with Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1s, whose names will be officially announced next week."

https://acm.mc/en/edition-en/rallye-monte-carlo-en/monte-carlo-2022-closure-of-registrations/

... and who is Terezinska CERNOHORSKY ?

[mknight]

again. will spread in our bubble. normal people entering their car dealer and seeing a nice pic on the wall, will never know if it was good or not.

How famous is/was Citroen BX4TC? Not much.

Was it more cause it was ugly, didn't get any results or because it did not compete in many races? Hard pick.

Well Puma isn't ugly so that's a start.

As a supporting argument the later Quattros were overall worse cars than (mid-engined) 205 and Delta S4, yet it's perhaps the most known one today. Dunno how it was in 1985-86. But I had Quattro S1 EVO stickers ijust a few years after and never heard of the other cars. Haven't heard much about RS200 at that time either.

So back to start...don't need to be best, but shouldn't be hopelessly bad (BX4TC).

[wyler]

How famous is/was Citroen BX4TC? Not much.

Was it more cause it was ugly, didn't get any results or because it did not compete in many races? Hard pick.

Well Puma isn't ugly so that's a start.

As a supporting argument the later Quattros were overall worse cars than (mid-engined) 205 and Delta S4, yet it's perhaps the most known one today. Dunno how it was in 1985-86. But I had Quattro S1 EVO stickers ijust a few years after and never heard of the other cars. Haven't heard much about RS200 at that time either.

So back to start...don't need to be best, but shouldn't be hopelessly bad (BX4TC).

Yeah, still, can't mix up. we live in the social media now, you can pretty much tell anything and still have a fandom.
then puma is not ugly, and should not be crappy also. already some p5 is more than enough pr! :)

[focus206]

Jan Verney... lol, it's Černý :D

How can wrc.com mess up so badly? *facepalm* Unless there's a surprise entry by WTCR driver Jean-Karl Vernay, but even then the name would be pretty wrong...

[Mirek]

... and who is Terezinska CERNOHORSKY ?

Pretty weird first name for Petr :D:D:D

Most likely it's a name of a street. There is number of them here and they are named after fortress/concentration camp Tererezín.

[Steve Boyd]

... and who is Terezinska CERNOHORSKY ?

Probably somebody who filled in the on-line entry form wrong . . . .

[WRCStan]

Probably somebody who filled in the on-line entry form wrong . . . .

I wonder if that's the case with M-Ford?

[Paul Hudson]

Could also add into the Mix Aaron Johnston driving C3 ?, ohh and Daniel Barritt is back with Taka, according to that list.
https://acm.mc/en/edition-en/rallye-monte-carlo-en/monte-carlo-2022-closure-of-registrations/

[Andre Oliveira]

Pic of Tim J

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHE3HVFX0AYJaBn?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb confirmed.
https://youtu.be/0ZueW7_Jf2I

[Andre Oliveira]

FAST FRENCHMEN COMPLETE M-SPORT'S 2022 MONTE CARLO LINE-UP

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/89553f_d5ef8ff05f214aaabb7800fc6f501c53~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_740,h_493,al_c,q_90/89553f_d5ef8ff05f214aaabb7800fc6f501c53~mv2.webp

M-Sport is thrilled to announce that Adrien Fourmaux and Sébastien Loeb will join Craig Breen and Gus Greensmith in Monte Carlo, in a fleet of all-new Ford Puma Hybrid Rally1 cars.

Frenchman Fourmaux joins Breen and Greensmith to form M-Sport’s trio of drivers for a full 2022 World Rally Championship campaign as the sport enters its new and excitng hybrid era.

Fourmaux began his rally career a mere five years ago, making a meteoric rise through the WRC ranks since his debut in 2019. His first season in WRC2, behind the wheel of an M-Sport Ford Fiesta Rally2, brought him two podium finishes at Rallye Monte Carlo (third) and Rally GB (second).

The 2021 season saw Fourmaux graduate into the Ford Fiesta WRC on Croatia Rally, where he achieved a career best of fifth overall. There was also cause for celebration at Safari Rally Kenya when Fourmaux claimed his first WRC stage win by a very comfortable 4.1 seconds. Consistently setting competitive times throughout the season, the young driver has been dubbed a rising star and on track to follow in the footsteps of his fellow successful countrymen.

Having been heavily involved in the testing programme for the all new Puma Hybrid Rally1 from the beginning, Fourmaux is in a perfect position to start his debut full WRC programme in the best possible form.

Sébastien Loeb makes WRC return

Nine-time FIA World Rally Champion, Sébastien Loeb, will also join the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team to compete on the opening round of the 2022 FIA World Rally Championship. The legendary French driver will be behind the wheel of the new Ford Puma Rally1 car for the 2022 Rallye Monte-Carlo, an event he has won seven times previously.

Loeb rewrote the FIA World Rally Championship’s record books as a full-time competitor with dominant performances across every surface type. Since his last WRC title, Loeb embarked upon a variety of motorsport programmes across an array of disciplines, succeeding in every single one.

Loeb's latest WRC adventure sees him join forces with co-driver Isabelle Galmiche, a long time member of Loeb’s gravel crew.

Fourmaux, Loeb, Breen and Greensmith, along with the rest of the team at M-Sport will be working tirelessly between now and the start date of next year’s Rallye Monte-Carlo, January 20, to prepare for a high-excitement debut of the all new Hybrid Rally1 cars.

M-Sport has a rich history of success in the WRC with a total of seven World Rally Championship titles, 61 overall victories, 239 podiums and a record breaking 268 consecutive points finishes. M-Sport is thrilled to be fielding a line up of drivers who can certainly continue and build on this legacy during 2022.

Malcolm Wilson, Managing Director, M-Sport said:

"I am really happy to announce the remaining drivers in our Monte Carlo line up. Starting the new WRC regulations with such a strong lineup is something I am very proud of and goes to show the faith that these guys have in the new Puma Rally1.

"Seeing Adrien given the opportunity to compete in a full season with us is something I am very proud of. M-Sport has a long history of developing young drivers and Adrien is no exception, 2022 gives him the chance to show what he can really do. I am sure he will deliver some impressive performances over the course of the season.

“In relation to Seb, I came close to securing a deal with him back in 2005 but unfortunately at that time we were not able to make it happen. However, with the introduction of the new 2022 Rally1 regulations and following discussions with Red Bull, we both reached out to Seb to see if he might be interested to come and try the new cars - he was, he did and now we find ourselves in a position to say that he will join the team next year! It is fantastic to be able to bring such an accomplished driver to M-Sport and I have no doubt he is still capable of a fantastic result as well as being a mentor to our other drivers. It might have taken over 16 years to get this deal to come to reality, but it is great to see it finally happen!”

Richard Millener, Team Principal, M-Sport Ford World Rally Team, said:

"I am still quite early in my rallying career, but I have been incredibly lucky to work with some incredible drivers in the last years, but having the chance to work with Seb Loeb is something I never really thought would happen. I know myself and the team will give everything we can to welcome him to the team and give him the best possible chance to get the best results.

"Also, finally confirming that Adrien will run with us for a full season is another piece of fantastic news. Adrien is such a motivated and exciting driver, and I am really pleased he now has a full season to be able to prove to us what he is capable of and demonstrate further development of what has so far been a very short career at the top level.

"Even though my job is to look after the rally team on a day to day basis, deep down I am just a huge rally fan and this news is genuinely exciting for me. It has taken lots of work to make this happen, and now I just cannot wait for the start of the Monte-Carlo.I know completing our line up with these two guys will motivate me and the team so much!”

Adrien Fourmaux said:

“I am very happy to announce I will continue my journey with the M-Sport Ford World Rally Team in 2022! An entire season is waiting for me with the M-Sport Ford Puma Hybrid Rally 1 which is a pleasure to drive. I am so proud of this, it is a very significant moment for me when I remember that I discovered rallying with the M-Sport Fiesta R2J back in 2017.

"For my sixth season in rallying I am really looking forward to competing at the highest level in M-Sport Ford and Red Bull Motorsport colours, and make all the people who believed in me and still believe in me proud. See you in Monte Carlo next month!”

Sébastien Loeb said:

“It’s nice to work with M-Sport, it is a very professional team and one that knows how to build good cars. I am happy to work with M-Sport now, since the beginning of my career I was fighting against Ford but I have always known Malcolm to be somebody very involved in the team and passionate about rally, we have always had a good relationship. I am really excited for Monte Carlo, it is really an exciting challenge.

“It was a pleasure to discover the new technology found in the Puma Rally1 cars, I think it is quite similar to the 2017 cars but with a hybrid system added on it. It makes it a bit more challenging to use and it is exciting to have something new to manage in the car. When I tested the car I was really impressed by how well balanced it is and how powerful it is with the hybrid, I really enjoyed it.

“I like what I do, I always enjoying driving, but when I do a WRC event it is just an amazing feeling. It is something I enjoy a lot, I think I can still be competitive, ok Monte-Carlo is maybe not the easiest event to start with a team as there can be some tricky conditions. I have some good memories from this rally and it is always an incredible atmosphere around the rally.”

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And Fourmaux finally confirmed too...
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmaux-gets-full-time-rally1-seat-with-m-sport/

A full-time drive and with Loeb as a mentor he will never have a better chance to progress to the top level.

[240RS]

The Loeb signing feels more of a decision made with the heart and not the head.

He, no doubt, brings experience to the table, but I wonder just how much top-end speed remains. Guess we shall soon Know. . .

[Sulland]

Pic of Tim J

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHE3HVFX0AYJaBn?format=jpg&name=medium

The rear wings are starting to look oversized, and resemble the wings used in Pikes Peak.
They are for sure very effective, but do we need those cornering speeds?

[mknight]

The Loeb signing feels more of a decision made with the heart and not the head.

He, no doubt, brings experience to the table, but I wonder just how much top-end speed remains. Guess we shall soon Know. . .

I disagree.

Sure Loeb's performance is an unknown with his last outing in Monte 2020 being quite bad, especially his bad tirechoice on Sunday something he used to excell at.

However, no matter how he does it's massive "free" PR, no matter his speed. It is also a test at the same time. Quess both Loeb and MSport want to see how he does before deciding on future starts. Cause the free PR drops rapidly if he does mediocre rallies like Sweden 2019.


Fourmaux full season is certainly good news (and not switching with Loeb for example).
He has shown some good progress and a few good stages. He still seems to have a lot to learn and lacks experience on most rallies, but much better than a "pay only" driver that they already have.
Maybe on tarmac rounds that he did already he might get (near?) podium, on gravel rallies he will still struggle imo. (off course everything car-depending).

[spiderem]

So is it a M-Sport Ford RedBull team for Fourmaux and Loeb? or just the same team as Breen and Gus?
Surely Ford must have increased somehow their involvement for M-Sport to have 4 cars at the Monte.
Good for the show, we have 10 Rally 1 confirmed... the wait can start.

[bandit12]

11 rally 1. Katsuta too.

[doubled1978]

I disagree.

Sure Loeb's performance is an unknown with his last outing in Monte 2020 being quite bad, especially his bad tirechoice on Sunday something he used to excell at.

However, no matter how he does it's massive "free" PR, no matter his speed. It is also a test at the same time. Quess both Loeb and MSport want to see how he does before deciding on future starts. Cause the free PR drops rapidly if he does mediocre rallies like Sweden 2019.


Fourmaux full season is certainly good news (and not switching with Loeb for example).
He has shown some good progress and a few good stages. He still seems to have a lot to learn and lacks experience on most rallies, but much better than a "pay only" driver that they already have.
Maybe on tarmac rounds that he did already he might get (near?) podium, on gravel rallies he will still struggle imo. (off course everything car-depending).

The thing with Fourmaux is he knows where he is lacking, and is ready to learn. I think he has the ability, just needs some experience.
If the car is alright, I think he’ll do well but what that turns into, who knows. As for gravel or tarmac, was difficult to make any assessment last year as the car was slow on gravel, and only marginally better on tarmac.
I just hope we have 3 competitive cars fighting.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb joining will hopefully take a bit of the attention and pressure off Breen, at least on Monte-Carlo.

If Loeb stays longer then it will give Breen great back-up as well as someone to learn from on events he hasn't done much.

[Lancia Stratos]

Loeb joining will hopefully take a bit of the attention and pressure off Breen, at least on Monte-Carlo.

If Loeb stays longer then it will give Breen great back-up as well as someone to learn from on events he hasn't done much.

There will be more events for Loeb - no doubt. Once the business side is sorted.

[mknight]

Surely Ford must have increased somehow their involvement for M-Sport to have 4 cars at the Monte.

Not necessarily
3 of those 4 cars are partly or fully paid by non-MSport funding.



There will be more events for Loeb - no doubt. Once the business side is sorted.

If both Loeb and the car in general will do bad in Monte I think Loeb's desire to do more events quickly diminishes. Though even in that worst case he'd probably want to try some gravel.

But I expect that at least at Monte the cars shouldn't be far away from each other.

[macebig]

And with that, every WDC in the modern WRC has appeared in an official capacity with Ford colours... Only exception Burnsie.

[AnttiL]

And with that, every WDC in the modern WRC has appeared in an official capacity with Ford colours... Only exception Burnsie.

Tänak
Ogier
Loeb
Solberg
Grönholm
Mäkinen
McRae
Auriol
Sainz
Biasion
Kankkunen
Blomqvist
Mikkola
Vatanen
Waldegård

Only Burns, Salonen and Röhrl missing?

[macebig]

Rohrl drove a Ford Germany Capri in the pre WRC era.

[AnttiL]

Tänak
Ogier
Loeb
Solberg
Grönholm
Mäkinen
McRae
Auriol
Sainz
Biasion
Kankkunen
Blomqvist
Mikkola
Vatanen
Waldegård

Only Burns, Salonen and Röhrl missing?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-small-wrc-club-loeb-now-leaves/

Hi Luke! :)

[macebig]

LOL! Dirtfish is here.

[dimviii]

Ιts not the first time we see an article at Dirtfish,after some days we have discuused here

[AnttiL]

Ιts not the first time we see an article at Dirtfish,after some days we have discuused here

Same goes for rallit.fi and our Finnish rally forum (or twitter banter). :D

[seb_sh]

Ιts not the first time we see an article at Dirtfish,after some days we have discuused here

They are only "journalists" you can't expect too much from them. It's not like it's their job to come up with article ideas and do research.

[Andre Oliveira]

They did an article based on Power Stage stats of eWRC-results.com too.

[RAS007]

And with that, every WDC in the modern WRC has appeared in an official capacity with Ford colours... Only exception Burnsie.

While this statistic may be true, sadly, hardly any of them have been WDC *while wearing* Ford colors.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://youtu.be/yrnL2LnJJnY

[Eli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sFNHDZi7hk

[Danny0405]

Didn’t have time to comment on Foumeaux-Loeb deal.
Quite a good thing that a young guy like Fourmaux, without family money or background (even if there is RB’s backing), is able to come to a full-time seat. Not enough for sure but better than nothing.

On Loeb, skeptical on my side (I think a deal with Mikkelsen with both Rally1 and Rally2 drives would have been better for M-Sport) but still, if RB pays for it...
The good thing is that M-Sport has a 4th car as soon as Monte Carlo so we can hope to see it a lot this year. For non-European rallies, it will be expensive so the most probable is the Australian noname driver (I don’t remember his name) but we can hope to see some good drivers in European rallyes in this car (Huttunen, Mikkelsen, why not a 2nd chance for Loubet even if I’m not a fan, Rossel, ...); let’s hope this more than Prokop, Bertelli, ... (ok for them in a 5th car).

[Andre Oliveira]

Acropolis?

Pic of Dimitris Chatzoukalis

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHnix5mWUAQmxXK?format=jpg&name=900x900

[wwbroe]

Acropolis?

Pic of Dimitris Chatzoukalis

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHnix5mWUAQmxXK?format=jpg&name=900x900
Also in Kenia he would be an option

[AnttiL]

Also in Kenia he would be an option

He can drive wherever he chooses to. But it will not be for manufacturer points.

Acropolis would be logical only because he’s Greek.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2022 Greensmith's big year (interview):

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/greensmith-interview-why-hes-ready-for-2022/

[macebig]

Target for Greensmith should be P6 in the championship this year. Should beat all part timers and Katsuta at minimum.

[er88]

Target for Greensmith should be P6 in the championship this year. Should beat all part timers and Katsuta at minimum.Yep it should be his target, but I'd be surprised to see him beat Lappi, and also Katsuta and Fourmaux.

[doubled1978]

Target for Greensmith should be P6 in the championship this year. Should beat all part timers and Katsuta at minimum.

My personal opinion is it’s more important for him to show some actual speed this year rather than just be consistently average. I wish him the best, but I think he needs to show something we haven’t really seen yet, actually something similar to what Katsuta did last year. Some good speed, a podium and some consistency, hopefully for him without the mid season slump Katsuta had.

[M3 Jambo]

2022 Greensmith's big year (interview):

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/greensmith-interview-why-hes-ready-for-2022/

Would appear he had a better year than I remember it, missing out on the fastest stage time by less than a second on six occasions. To be fair he was never blown away by any of his teammates.

[AnttiL]

Greensmith says about Arctic


Although the result wasn’t great, the performance relative to Teemu [Suninen] who’s fought for wins in those conditions before was actually very strong

Greensmith's best stage time was 9th. Basically always the slowest WRC, except for SS2 where Ogier had road cleaning issues and SS10 where Loubet spun.

It's true that the Fiestas were often the two slowest WRC's, especially on the very fast stages, but Suninen managed to get to 4th on two stages and be clearly faster than Greensmith on a number of stages, like SS9 where Suninen lost 13.9s, Greensmith 24.6s.

The closest Greensmith got to a stage win was Portugal SS1 (0.5s). There's also other good stage positions in Portugal and Safari, but always losing by several seconds. And in many occasions Fourmaux was faster than him, even on gravel.

[Sulland]

I really hope the Puma is as quick or quicker than the two others. Would be much more exiting with 3 potential winning cars.

[djip]

Greensmith says about Arctic



Greensmith's best stage time was 9th. Basically always the slowest WRC, except for SS2 where Ogier had road cleaning issues and SS10 where Loubet spun.

It's true that the Fiestas were often the two slowest WRC's, especially on the very fast stages, but Suninen managed to get to 4th on two stages and be clearly faster than Greensmith on a number of stages, like SS9 where Suninen lost 13.9s, Greensmith 24.6s.

The closest Greensmith got to a stage win was Portugal SS1 (0.5s). There's also other good stage positions in Portugal and Safari, but always losing by several seconds. And in many occasions Fourmaux was faster than him, even on gravel.

Greensmith may not be world champion material, but you can't take away that he made big strides up this year. If he continues along the same slop, he will become relevant with the big guys. Fingers crossed for him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen boyant after Puma tests...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/breen-buoyant-after-puma-tests/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

'When you’ve picked up a World Rally Car from the bottom of a Méxican lake and made it work the next day, fixing one that’s tumbled down a mountain is no problem for M-Sport.

It was an all-nighter, but the Ford Puma Rally1 Hybrid that Craig Breen crashed on Wednesday is back on the road in the hands of Gus Greensmith on Thursday.

“I’m surprised you’re surprised,” said team principal Richard Millener. “This is what we do."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-successfully-repairs-puma-after-breen-crash/

[Mirek]

The spaceframe cars shall be much easier to repair than the steel bodyshells. I'm not surprised.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Red Bull on all M-SPORT cars !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKI8o2XIAINzqx?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKI8ptWYAQF5BA?format=jpg&name=large

[TypeR]

That's crazy! What a livery.. Hat off, hands down!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKKF8dXsAIi_Vf?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKKF8dX0AMz0Qk?format=jpg&name=large

[er88]

Gorgeous livery tbf

[dimviii]

Nice!!

[EstWRC]

Every year they win!

Awesome livery

[Andre Oliveira]

The best. Beautifull colours, connection with eletric part,... very cool.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Raiden Shogun approves..

Genshin reference aside, that livery is electrifying..

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[doubled1978]

Looks great. Bravo

[cali]

Would've liked that blue livery with huge Ford bagdes but hey although too much colour for my taste it's still the best livery out of those three teams. RedBull suits almost on every car

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

Best 2022 livery!

[WRCStan]

Would've liked that blue livery with huge Ford bagdes but hey although too much colour for my taste it's still the best livery out of those three teams. RedBull suits almost on every car

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

Will Craig & Gus be running the Red Bull colours?

[Kenneth]

Looks like they will

[Andre Oliveira]

All 4 cars in same livery.

[focus206]

Not a big fan of the purple parts, but best livery of this year. Not that the bar was set high, Hyundai's one is so messy...

[bomber21]

Purple Puma looks great!

[dimviii]

WRCWings
@llluis555

Another novelty seen in the Ford Puma #Rally1 revealed today, a small wing profile on the outside of the side winglet, surely conceived to generate some more downforce with the air coming from the A-pillar (side of the car) #WRClive #WRCliveES #WRCjp #MSPORTERS

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKpPxMXsAMqQ0p?format=jpg&name=medium

[dimviii]

Greensmith with no redbull logos at his overalls

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKtx-kXwAMFFYX?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

Pic of Garry Barker

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJLt85NXMAA2vdx?format=jpg&name=medium

Neither the car

[Andre Oliveira]

Pic of Chris Glaister

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJLztPZXIAMmRCH?format=jpg&name=medium

[WRCStan]

I name this a Rock-Bull HYBRID livery. Any pics of Gusty's side, presumably that was the original design?

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_01_2022/post-157-0-84358400-1642292063.jpg

[Eli]

Best livery of 2022 by far, and imho the best livery M-Sport has had since.. The last time they had Red-Bull only this time the purple adds to the color scheme, makes it absolutely stunning. I'm guessing Gus doesn't have Red-Bull since he has crown oil as a private sponser?

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[AndyRAC]

Maybe Breen has become a Red Bull athlete? Though I haven't seen anything to announce it. Off the top of my head, I can't recall too many Irish RB athletes, but I'd have to look it up.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJN30C4XsAEC39J?format=jpg&name=large

[macebig]

The man from Dungannon was RB sponsored in his Peugeot IRC days...

[WRCStan]

I'm guessing Gus doesn't have Red-Bull since he has crown oil as a private sponser?

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Short of it yes, they don't need each other. Might not see Crown so much as Rockdoor is in the Greensmith empire, and they're on every car so are also a team sponsor. If RB sponsor the team (Craig isn't RB athlete), will GG's car wear it on the events Loeb doesn't do? Probably not. Without Rockdoor there'd be no Gus and vice-versa, M-Sport are back on two entries most of the time without enough sponsor support for a third. Whatever, as long as it gets cars to the start ramp it's all good.

[WRC1]

All 4 cars in same livery.

are you sure? on the Pictures you posted Greensmith Car wear no RedBul Logo...

[rallyfiend]

The man from Dungannon was RB sponsored in his Peugeot IRC days...

He was British, not Irish....

[JUF]

He was British, not Irish....

No, he is actually neither British nor Irish...

[rallyfiend]

No, he is actually neither British nor Irish...

Under the regulations of the FIA (which is what we are talking about) he competed under the flag of the UK.

He's British in this respect.

In the same way that Welshman Elfyn Evans is a British.....

[AnttiL]

Britain means the main island (England, Wales, Scotland). But, Cambridge dictionary says of the term ”British”: belonging to or relating to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or its people

[Andre Oliveira]

are you sure? on the Pictures you posted Greensmith Car wear no RedBul Logo...

The livery is the same. The logos not.

[ouvreur]

Britain means the main island (England, Wales, Scotland). But, Cambridge dictionary says of the term ”British”: belonging to or relating to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland or its people

There's the dictionary definition, and the legal perspective, then there's how people feel... there are plenty of people born in the United Kingdom who don't feel comfortable being called British!

[WRCStan]

I feel compelled to comment despite checking this is an M-Sport thread on Motorsport Forums. Under the Good Friday agreement people of Northern Ireland are free to determine their own national identity and can choose citizenship of Republic of Ireland, UK or both. All Brits and Irish have freedom to move, live, work in either state. Kris is at least a British citizen, Aaron Johnston is from the same county and switched competing as a Brit to the ROI a few years ago. Doesn't really matter why, he has the automatic right. To me they are both Irish through coming from the island of Ireland regardless of citizenship.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe Red Bull is M-Sport''s main sponsor now, but not on Greensmith's car as he has his own (familiy businesses' Rockdoor & Gap) who are paying for his drive.

[ouvreur]

I feel compelled to comment despite checking this is an M-Sport thread on Motorsport Forums. Under the Good Friday agreement people of Northern Ireland are free to determine their own national identity and can choose citizenship of Republic of Ireland, UK or both. All Brits and Irish have freedom to move, live, work in either state. Kris is at least a British citizen, Aaron Johnston is from the same county and switched competing as a Brit to the ROI a few years ago. Doesn't really matter why, he has the automatic right. To me they are both Irish through coming from the island of Ireland regardless of citizenship.

Also, in the wake of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union, it's pretty handy for Northern Irish people (or indeed anyone else who is eligible) to switch to an Irish passport, it means easier travel for one thing.

[seb_sh]

The man from Dungannon was RB sponsored in his Peugeot IRC days...

How do you know Meeke is from Dungannon? Did some commentator tell you on wrc live? I must have missed it.

[wyler]

How do you know Meeke is from Dungannon? Did some commentator tell you on wrc live? I must have missed it.

wikipedia? : )

[the sniper]

How do you know Meeke is from Dungannon? Did some commentator tell you on wrc live? I must have missed it.

Macebig IS Jon Desborough, confirmed! :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJyaljsXIAEfExQ?format=jpg&name=900x900

[mknight]

Congratulations with the great work done on the new car. It is at least as good as Toyota at the moment.

Also congratulations on taking the risk with Loeb, even though there were clear PR benefits no matter how he would do.

------

For business they couldn't have gotten a better sales add. So surely drivers with money will be calling them now.


Maybe they have something to think about at the moment. With some driver changes and/or rotation they could be a challenger in manu champs, but IMO not with Greensmith and Fourmaux as nominated drivers on most rounds.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lorenzo Bertelli says, "See you (very) soon !"

PUMA Sale #1 ?

[mknight]

I would hope for drivers with money and (some?) speed.
Like Loubet, Veiby, or Huttunen (seemingly not much money there).

[AnttiL]

Lorenzo Bertelli says, "See you (very) soon !"

PUMA Sale #1 ?

Bertelli has liked to enter Rally Sweden and also did Arctic last year. He could also still use his own prev gen WRC car.

[AnttiL]

I would hope for drivers with money and (some?) speed.
Like Loubet, Veiby, or Huttunen (seemingly not much money there).

I don't think Bertelli will ever be blocking these guys.

[Danny0405]

Huttunen has the WRC-2 championship to play and Sweden is a good opportunity for him in this effort. I think M-Sport will prioritize this. Rally1 drives will be only if he is good in WRC-2.
For Loubet, Sweden is not his best chance so I don’t see the point for him to pay to go to Sweden (should keep his money for later).
For Veiby, his visibility has dropped a lot so, as M-Sport is a business, I think they will prioritize who pays the most.

Also, I don’t know if M-Sport will be able to repair Fourmaux’s car in time (in general times, yes but with the new regulation + spare parts issues, may be harder this time). May affect the number of cars to rent.

[MentalParadox]

Bertelli has liked to enter Rally Sweden and also did Arctic last year. He could also still use his own prev gen WRC car.

Would be an interesting opportunity to see how the WRC Fiesta compares to the Rally1 Puma. On a fast rally like Sweden, the Puma may be faster?

[pantealex]

Would be an interesting opportunity to see how the WRC Fiesta compares to the Rally1 Puma. On a fast rally like Sweden, the Puma may be faster?

Puma is faster than WRC17 in 2022 spec (with smaller restrictor I mean)

[WRCStan]

Puma is faster than WRC17 in 2022 spec (with smaller restrictor I mean)

There's no such 2022 spec, restrictor is still as it was. Only restriction on WRC17 "when the driver has not scored points for a WRC Manufacturer Team in the previous five (5) seasons". Which makes it not a fair test.

[doubled1978]

Would be an interesting opportunity to see how the WRC Fiesta compares to the Rally1 Puma. On a fast rally like Sweden, the Puma may be faster?

I actually had this thought today. It’s chassis balance certainly looks much better (strong rear end) and confidence inspiring, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it was at least as quick in a lot of circumstances.

[pantealex]

There's no such 2022 spec, restrictor is still as it was. Only restriction on WRC17 "when the driver has not scored points for a WRC Manufacturer Team in the previous five (5) seasons". Which makes it not a fair test.

Are you sure ?

Gryazin is allowed to drive full WRC17-21 spec ?

What about Katsuta, Loubet and Veiby ? They all have driven in B-teams not in Manufactures

[AnttiL]

Would be an interesting opportunity to see how the WRC Fiesta compares to the Rally1 Puma. On a fast rally like Sweden, the Puma may be faster?

For sure, but with Bertelli we're not getting that comparison

We can only estimate the pace through the difference to the fastest Rally2 car.

In Monte Carlo 2022 The fastest Rally2 car was around 2 s/km slower than fastest Rally1 car.
In Monte Carlo 2021 Greensmith was often slower than the fastest Rally2 cars or just barely faster.
In Monte Carlo 2020 Lappi and Suninen were roughly 1 s/km faster than fastest Rally2 car.

Maybe we are wiser once we get some results from Sweden, which we can then compare with Arctic Rally Finland 2021.

[AnttiL]

There's no such 2022 spec, restrictor is still as it was. Only restriction on WRC17 "when the driver has not scored points for a WRC Manufacturer Team in the previous five (5) seasons". Which makes it not a fair test.

Are you sure? Maybe it's in some other document than the sporting regulations?

EDIT: I also tried to look but couldn't find an update on the restrictor...very strange...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How Loeb and M-Sport answered every question... an emotional read:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-and-m-sport-answered-every-question-over-them/

[Rally Hokkaido]

Are you sure? Maybe it's in some other document than the sporting regulations?

EDIT: I also tried to look but couldn't find an update on the restrictor...very strange...

It sounds familiar to me, too. Was it in one of M. Matton's pronouncements in an interview that somehow didn't get past the discussion at the WRC Commission?

[AnttiL]

I remember also Latvala talking about the smaller restrictor during Rally Finland pre-rally radio special where people could send in their questions.

[WRCStan]

Are you sure ?

Gryazin is allowed to drive full WRC17-21 spec ?

What about Katsuta, Loubet and Veiby ? They all have driven in B-teams not in Manufactures

Sporting regs point to 2021 Appendix J, Art. 255A which remains unchanged since March 2021. If the restrictor had changed shouldn't there be a 2022 Appendix J, Art. 255A?

The only other notes are they are eligible for WRC Teams championship and they will be Priority 2 group.

Getting hold of one might be an obstacle.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What has any of this got to do with M-Sport Ford WRT ?

[AnttiL]

What has any of this got to do with M-Sport Ford WRT ?

They are basically the only brand whose WRC2017 cars are out there, and could be still seen on the stages. Hyundais and Toyotas will likely go to museums and private collections, or taken apart for spares for the current cars where applicable.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They are basically the only brand whose WRC2017 cars are out there, and could be still seen on the stages. Hyundais and Toyotas will likely go to museums and private collections, or taken apart for spares for the current cars where applicable.

2017 Fiesta's in private hands are nothing to do with M-Sport WRT.

[ouvreur]

2017 Fiesta's in private hands are nothing to do with M-Sport WRT.

Other than the fact the activity of selling and running customer cars (including the previous-gen WRC car) funds the WRC team, you're absolutely correct.

[WRCStan]

2017 Fiesta's in private hands are nothing to do with M-Sport WRT.

Somebody mentioned Bertelli returning and questioned if it was a Puma sale.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Other than the fact the activity of selling and running customer cars (including the previous-gen WRC car) funds the WRC team, you're absolutely correct.

I mean the 2017 cars as of now, not in the past.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lorenzo Bertelli says, "See you (very) soon !"

PUMA Sale #1 ?

Great to have a customer for the new Puma confirmed now. Plus it's always good for fans to see another top level car in action. Bertelli's car liveries always look cool too.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Welcome P-L Loubet ! :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKvOhFDWQAIbEMc?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

Safari and Acropolis

Serderidis’ liveryhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/FK11N1PXsAEpQ0E?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-SPORT post-Monte celebrations and de-brief:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2vg4scVxNZ7y1ZquPQ46Hr?si=MEipx26_Tg2Jkvry4baeOw&utm_source=copy-link

M.Wilson: "...and all done with a fraction of the budget of the other two teams."

[macebig]

2002 Ford racesuits with BP sponsorship (seemingly original.) https://www.motorsportauctions.com/category/412/Race-Suits/listings/45951/Colin-McRae-and-Nicky-Grists-Ford-Focus-WRC-Sparc.html

[TypeR]

Oh no.. why some old man is taking some young talent's seat..
Wait. if one guy wants to drive, he buys/pays for the car and that's it.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-has-sold-the-first-privateer-rally1-car/

[tommeke_B]

Actually there's a mistake in the article. Serderidis will drive the Puma Rally1 in Rallye de Hannut and Ardennes. It will be driven not with his own car, but with one from M-Sport themselves, as the one he bought isn't going to be ready yet.

Fun fact, there's an agreement with M-Sport that the car will always go back to M-Sport between events this year, and the car will be only serviced by people from M-Sport, also in the small events. So basically you can buy a Rally1-car but you can't put it in your own garage. :D

[Rallyper]

Actually there's a mistake in the article. Serderidis will drive the Puma Rally1 in Rallye de Hannut and Ardennes. It will be driven not with his own car, but with one from M-Sport themselves, as the one he bought isn't going to be ready yet.

Fun fact, there's an agreement with M-Sport that the car will always go back to M-Sport between events this year, and the car will be only serviced by people from M-Sport, also in the small events. So basically you can buy a Rally1-car but you can't put it in your own garage. :D

Who is the part deciding that fact in contract? Serderidis or MSport?
I´d say Serderidis can´t manage the car in his own garage anyway. ;)

[rage82]

Who is the part deciding that fact in contract? Serderidis or MSport?
I´d say Serderidis can´t manage the car in his own garage anyway. ;)They don't want any info about the car to leak to other WRC teams probably?

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[AnttiL]

They don't want any info about the car to leak to other WRC teams probably?

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I was thinking about that as well.

In addition, I can only image these cars are not that simple to service. In case of hybrid unit problems, Compact Dynamics only deals with the WRC teams, not directly to their customers?

Just speculation...

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe they buy the car and the service.

[dimviii]

They don't want any info about the car to leak to other WRC teams probably?


yeap.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latest M-Sport merchandise incl. banners, posters and stickers of the new PUMA...

https://www.dmb.uk.com/search/M-Sport/filter_open/filter-products/page/4

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport anticipates more Rally1 privateers in WRC after first Puma sale...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m-sport-anticipates-more-rally1-privateers-in-wrc-after-first-puma-sale/8310098/

[Sulland]

M-Sport need better drivers!
Loeb is just icing in the cake a few times a year, the rest of the year they need one more crew on level with Breen/Nagle.

Even if Sweden is special, the same will happen on all other rallies.
Greensmith/Andersson and Formaux/Coria are not good enough to fight for podiums. Ford need a 2nd driver on par with Breen!

[er88]

Another problem is that this was meant to be one of Breens best events - considering his previous experience and speed here in the past.

We now either go into a run of events Breen hasn't done for a long time, or performed badly on last year (Croatia).

Hard to expect anything from Greensmith and Fourmaux, but I'm sure/ I hope both will show speed & grab a few good results at some point throughout the seaaon.

Msport chose the money from Greensmith and Fourmaux (plus Loubet), so we can't expect them to suddenly sign any of the better drivers out there (Paddon, Mikkelsen, Suninen, Meeke, Ostberg etc etc etc).

[TypeR]

Lol, still talking about Paddon or Ostberg :D
Like they were event winners back then..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One poor rally mostly due to an unfortunate mistake by Breen and some car troubles.

Let''s see how it goes for a few months before writing them off. The other drivers mentioned are not guaranteed rally winners either.

[er88]

Better drivers than Greensmith and Fourmaux though. But we know why Msport have gone for those two so it's a moot point

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's always a balancing act for a private team trying to stay financially-stable, but competitive, in WRC.

M-SPORT have gone for Breen as their 'best available driver' to pay for and only time will tell if he's the right choice. As well as finance, the other two bring some good potential.

I dont believe anyone could do a better job than Mr Wilson in keeping a non-factory team in WRC or know better who to choose for the best balance.

[Sulland]

Moves this one over here


Breen the disapointment of the season so far

Who could come in and help them?
Car has potential on both surfaces, so they need new blood!

[skarderud]

Moves this one over here



Who could come in and help them?
Car has potential on both surfaces, so they need new blood!Andreas Mikkelsen.

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[EstWRC]

Tänak

[skarderud]

TänakMaybe, but its wery unusal to swap teams mid-season, M-sport need a driver asap.
Mikkelsen has in his contract with Skoda that he can jump ship if he got an offer from a WRC1 team.


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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Would you guarantee rally wins by Mikkelsen if M-Sport signed him ?

No, thought not.

[skarderud]

Would you guarantee rally wins by Mikkelsen if M-Sport signed him ?

No, thought not.Easy better than todays lineup.
He is a proven winner, thats not anything you can say about those others, exept Loeb.

Who would you prefer? Meeke? Or another paydriver?

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