M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[EstWRC]

this was interesting piece, i always like the comparing parts in interviews

Esapekka

Well, the first impression is that it’s quite easy and very logical, at least on tarmac it’s quite logical even if the conditions are tricky and challenging with a lot of surface changes, wet conditions it feels logical, so that’s giving a good confidence for the driver and for sure compared to last year it felt so much easier. I really enjoyed the test the chassis is working even better than the Toyota I believe. Performance wise, Citroen, the engine was kind of only in the top power, no torque but this is opposite again, the torque is quite nice like the Toyota, but when you’re in fifth or sixth gear, in the high revs it’s not really going like the Citroen. We are gaining more in the low revs but missing out of the high revs, but I think we will have a new engine before Argentina, which will fix these problems, and they are saying it will be a big improvement. This is promising, so I’m really quite looking forward that we can surprise people.

[mknight]

When he went to Citroen he talked only about the positives.. then within 4 rallies he either didn't talk or sounded (and looked) like complete disaster.

Anyway here he also mentioned something slightly negative and even just pointing out positives is better then the PR-polished comments that say "the car is good".

[Fast Eddie WRC]

'New engine coming before Argentina'...

I was hoping for it from the start of the season. I guess more testing needed to check reliability.

[drive]

#40 Jocius for Monte with wrc car?

[RAS007]

Makes me wonder if they need one. I guess between self sponsorship (M-Sport), Castrol and the Ford input, they have enough to run a whole season. Aside from bringing more money to reduce the running costs and pay wages, I wonder if a title sponsor would actually allow for more development and therefore a faster car? Or would they simply operate at the same performance level, but with reduced costs for M-Sport?

I've posted this several times over the years: I can't understand why they cannot secure a title sponsor. They've had many successes and the car is obviously competitive with a fast driver. I'm happy to hear that Castrol is providing more backing. One obvious benefit of a title sponsor would be to eliminate, at least partially, the need for paying drivers, you would expect.

[sindroms]

#40 Jocius for Monte with wrc car?

Yes. He is going to do almost full season on MSport Fiesta WRC. (Strong rumors)

[Sulland]

Yes. He is going to do almost full season on MSport Fiesta WRC. (Strong rumors)

Based on experience, he will have his hands full. trying to tame the Fiesta WRC in Monte.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/4942-deividas-jocius/
Hope Oliver S will get enough time btw himself and Mr Jocius.

[AnttiL]

Will it be the old spec Fiesta WRC? Usually they seed any new generation WRC cars higher.

[Andre Oliveira]

He allready tested during 2019. New one

[T16]

I've posted this several times over the years: I can't understand why they cannot secure a title sponsor. They've had many successes and the car is obviously competitive with a fast driver. I'm happy to hear that Castrol is providing more backing. One obvious benefit of a title sponsor would be to eliminate, at least partially, the need for paying drivers, you would expect.

Fair shout and that answers my question. I guess more money would mean the ability to get a top driver.

[denkimi]

One obvious benefit of a title sponsor would be to eliminate, at least partially, the need for paying drivers, you would expect.
You don't seem to understand how m-sport works.

Toyota and hyundai's goal is get as much pr as possible, so they need the best drivers to do that.
Malcolms goal is to make as much money as possible. He doesn't need good much good drivers for that, he needs drivers that pay as much as possible. He only needs one proven driver to show the speed of the car.
Even if he would find a new big title sponsor, he would still give the car to at least one or two paying drivers.

[AndyRAC]

I've posted this several times over the years: I can't understand why they cannot secure a title sponsor. They've had many successes and the car is obviously competitive with a fast driver. I'm happy to hear that Castrol is providing more backing. One obvious benefit of a title sponsor would be to eliminate, at least partially, the need for paying drivers, you would expect.

Well, there is a simple answer - but probably not popular on a motorsport/ rally forum.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You don't seem to understand how m-sport works.

Toyota and hyundai's goal is get as much pr as possible, so they need the best drivers to do that.
Malcolms goal is to make as much money as possible. He doesn't need good much good drivers for that, he needs drivers that pay as much as possible. He only needs one proven driver to show the speed of the car.
Even if he would find a new big title sponsor, he would still give the car to at least one or two paying drivers.

Malcolm is just wanting to make money ? So why did he bring in Ogier and why was he chasing Tanak ?

[rallyfiend]

Malcolm is just wanting to make money ? So why did he bring in Ogier and why was he chasing Tanak ?

Malcolm was only 'chasing' Tanak to drive up the price to Toyota and Hyundai so he gets his money back quicker!

That was a game, nothing more.

[AnttiL]

Malcolm is just wanting to make money ? So why did he bring in Ogier and why was he chasing Tanak ?

Getting Ogier was a guaranteed chance to win the title, and I bet he was able to get Ogier a bit cheaper thanks to VW still having to pay him for 2017.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Malcolm was only 'chasing' Tanak to drive up the price to Toyota and Hyundai so he gets his money back quicker!

That was a game, nothing more.

More cynicism.

I think he would've genuinely re-signed Tanak if he would come back.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Getting Ogier was a guaranteed chance to win the title

Just like why Toyota have grabbed him now...

Wilson wants to win Titles and like the others that needs a Top Driver. When he got one he paid him and wouldve continued to but Ogier though Citroen was a better bet.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Greensmith interview

https://www.thepitcrewonline.net/2020/01/09/interview-with-gus-greensmith-autosport-international-2020/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOVhce2WkAUHHtq?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

Greensmith interview

https://www.thepitcrewonline.net/2020/01/09/interview-with-gus-greensmith-autosport-international-2020/

21Kg loss? wow

[MartijnS]

That’s a lot. He wasn’t that big haha.

[Andre Oliveira]

Charles Greensmith: “I can confirm 21kg! He’s been a very hungry man the last 4 months.”

[denkimi]

Malcolm is just wanting to make money ? So why did he bring in Ogier and why was he chasing Tanak ?
He hoped winning the title would get ford to step in again.

Of course he wants to win titles. But that is only secondary. He is running a business, making a big profit is his first concern.
The only reason malcolm needs good results, is to attract sponsors.

[AnttiL]

I also believe "chasing Tänak" was only Wilson's game in trying to jack up Tänak's price, so he would get a bigger share.

When we compare the situation of Wilson getting Ogier in 2017 and Tänak for 2020
- VW probably paid something to Ogier, Tänak didn't have an exited manufacturer paying him anymore
- Red Bull probably secured a big part of the budget, what could Tänak bring?
- M-Sport hadn't won the titles before as a private team, now they have already done that as a stunt
- And again, if Wilson had been paying Tänak, he wouldn't get the aforementioned extra share

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Believe what you like.

I think Malcolm got the taste of winning again and didnt want to go back to being an also-ran.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOf6vA4X0AAkUgr?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOf6vSSXUAA41Ab?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOf6vhvWoAAd3Sr?format=jpg&name=large

[TypeR]

Holy shirt.. it looks so good! White is racing colour :D

[EstWRC]

This is one of the best liveries ever!

At least for me

[er88]

Yeah that livery alone makes up for Hyundai & Toyota's lack of imagination.

[doubled1978]

This is one of the best liveries ever!

At least for me

Yes this is a genuinely excellent one.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That bit of red looks good and will help with ident.

[RS]

Can someone tell us more about this Jocius dude? So strange he's come from virtually nowhere to an extensive programme in a World Rally Car..

Has he even started a WRC event before?

Is he a rich businessman, or?

Is he doing the full championship? I did see he had multiple tests in the Fiesta already on different surfaces..

[pantealex]

Can someone tell us more about this Jocius dude? So strange he's come from virtually nowhere to an extensive programme in a World Rally Car..

Has he even started a WRC event before?

Is he a rich businessman, or?

Is he doing the full championship? I did see he had multiple tests in the Fiesta already on different surfaces..

5 WRC starts before
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/4942-deividas-jocius/

[AnttiL]

5 WRC starts before
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/4942-deividas-jocius/

Most of them in R2...

[pantealex]

Most of them in R2...

23th overall last years Monte-Carlo with R2 :)

[electroliquid]

Can someone tell us more about this Jocius dude? So strange he's come from virtually nowhere to an extensive programme in a World Rally Car..

Has he even started a WRC event before?

Is he a rich businessman, or?

Is he doing the full championship? I did see he had multiple tests in the Fiesta already on different surfaces..

Well, as I wrote before in other thread, he is quite fast on national level on gravel in Baltics, had some good results, but unfortunately has tendency to crash, as other member of this forum Sindroms said "less skilled version of Lukyanuk" . About rich businessman I don't know, I guess not, but I don't know really. Last 10 years there are always rumors about money troubles for him, as you can see here https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/4942-deividas-jocius/ only few rallies per season, changing co-drives ( I think some was like sponsors). There also was rumors about test with Citroen (10-12 year ago), and bringing WRC car to Lithuania, but that never happen, and nobody saw that Citroen. Also he said himself, that there was agreement to M-sport, for last year to drive Ford, but in 2018 autumn he had major crash with broken 13 bones, including both wrists, and after 3,5 month he did Monte with R2, because after crash plans was changed. Don't know about full season, but I guess some gravel rallies for sure. I hope he will did well, could shine in few stages on gravel, I think, and I hope it will be good impact for rallying in Lithuania. There also is article in Italian: https://www.rallyssimo.it/2020/01/16/wrc-esclusiva-con-deividas-jocius-monte-carlo-gara-affascinante-la-fiesta-wrc-e-semplicemente-fantastica/?fbclid=IwAR105YnZsIkdYsg-9CJ7BEmzbIekurIiWps-3VeMjbklHR51Rf4-_AljCkk

[RS]

Thanks for the info, looks like his money troubles are over!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

DirtFish

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-m-sport-cannot-be-discounted-in-2020

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This RallyeMonteCarlo was a special one for us as it marked our 250th consecutive points score !

It started in 2002 and since then 22 drivers and 28 co-drivers have contributed to the achievement which includes seven titles, 50 wins, 185 podiums and a Titanak !!

[tomhlord]

Uh-oh. https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18202532.public-meeting-m-sport-facility/

[AnttiL]

Uh-oh. https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18202532.public-meeting-m-sport-facility/

Just to clarify, the local residents are considered about the noise of the new M-Sport test track. When you put it like that, I thought it was worse.

[tommeke_B]

Nothing's better than waking up to the glorious sound of a Fiesta WRC, it's only a matter of time before all residents fall in love with it and drop their complaints... Or not.

[tomhlord]

Just to clarify, the local residents are considered about the noise of the new M-Sport test track. When you put it like that, I thought it was worse.

Apologies, I should have posted with some additional context.

In the UK, we've seen noise restrictions added to venues like Thruxton which limits the number of events etc. they can hold, so hopefully this is a small discussion resolved quickly.

[EstWRC]

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-straight-talking-finns-will-boost-m-sport/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gus Greensmith interview

He explained that M-Sport had installed performance-related bonus drives into his contract for the coming year.

“I like that, because it’s based on merit,” he said. “I have to earn anything extra.”

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/greensmith-out-to-prove-he-deserves-his-wrc-drive/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport Ford World Rally Team partner Eibach will have increased visibility on the EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta WRCs at this weekend’s #RallySweden.

https://twitter.com/WRCgerardquinn/status/1227207339226357760?s=20

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@MSportLtd
Great to have extra support from Eibach Racing this weekend. Their performance springs are designed to excel in the most extreme environments motorsport has to offer - and that's why we continue to place our trust in them !

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2020/02/11/EIBACH-SPRING-INTO-SWEDEN

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQlUktLXUAATOSX?format=jpg&name=large

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/wrc-tiimin-omistajalta-karu-arvio-suomalaiskuskin-suorituksesta-ajaa-melkein-kuin-jari-matti/

Wilson is not happy with Suninen's performance. Wilson says Suninen drives too aggressively and sideways, just like Jari-Matti. Wilson expects a good result in Mexico, since Ogier was able to win there with that car.

[mknight]

https://www.rallit.fi/wrc-tiimin-omistajalta-karu-arvio-suomalaiskuskin-suorituksesta-ajaa-melkein-kuin-jari-matti/

Wilson is not happy with Suninen's performance. Wilson says Suninen drives too aggressively and sideways, just like Jari-Matti. Wilson expects a good result in Mexico, since Ogier was able to win there with that car.

Very rare to hear something like this, teamboss criticizing drivers style...

While I don't necessarily disagree, Lappi has seemingly been even more sideways whole weekend. Another thing is off course that last year Suninen was leading here, did he change so much to worse over one year?

Hard to expect much from Suninen in Mexico when he didn't finish a single normal stage there last year. Talk about putting driver under pressure.

[cali]

Very rare to hear something like this, teamboss criticizing drivers style...

While I don't necessarily disagree, Lappi has seemingly been even more sideways whole weekend. Another thing is off course that last year Suninen was leading here, did he change so much to worse over one year?

Hard to expect much from Suninen in Mexico when he didn't finish a single normal stage there last year. Talk about putting driver under pressure.You can't compare last year, totally different conditions and starting order etc

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[cali]

+ etc

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[RS]

Very rare to hear something like this, teamboss criticizing drivers style...

While I don't necessarily disagree, Lappi has seemingly been even more sideways whole weekend. Another thing is off course that last year Suninen was leading here, did he change so much to worse over one year?

Hard to expect much from Suninen in Mexico when he didn't finish a single normal stage there last year. Talk about putting driver under pressure.

Malcolm is a softie, I doubt he’d give Suninen the boot during the season. Don’t know how many more years he’ll persevere with him though, look at how quick Kalle has progressed..

[AnttiL]

Very rare to hear something like this, teamboss criticizing drivers style...

It would be different if Rich Millener said the same comment

[Tarmop]

Malcolm is a softie, I doubt he’d give Suninen the boot during the season. Don’t know how many more years he’ll persevere with him though, look at how quick Kalle has progressed..

Suninen started off also like that...pretty much.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm afraid the criticism is justified as he seems to have stopped progressing like he was last season.

And Lappi is showing him up despite being new to the Fiesta.

[tommeke_B]

Also a bit disappointed from Suninen. When he was driving the R5 (both Oreca Fiesta and Fabia) I thought he would become a big one, the first two outings with the Fiesta WRC were phenomenal, but after that... For some reason he didn't continue to progress. It's quite clear that this year he has to show something more and be more competitive, or it should be his last WRC season. Lappi's pace seems impressive, we don't know how fast the Fiesta really is at this point, and that makes it probably even more impressive. I'm an M-Sport fan, it's great what they keep doing in WRC, but the pace of Tänak and Evans they immediately had when moving to Toyota makes me wonder...

[BigWorm]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/1981/photos/bianchi_rally_1981/hse_wilson4.jpg

A happy birthday to this lad

[AnttiL]

Also a bit disappointed from Suninen. When he was driving the R5 (both Oreca Fiesta and Fabia) I thought he would become a big one, the first two outings with the Fiesta WRC were phenomenal, but after that... For some reason he didn't continue to progress. It's quite clear that this year he has to show something more and be more competitive, or it should be his last WRC season. Lappi's pace seems impressive, we don't know how fast the Fiesta really is at this point, and that makes it probably even more impressive. I'm an M-Sport fan, it's great what they keep doing in WRC, but the pace of Tänak and Evans they immediately had when moving to Toyota makes me wonder...

There has been flashes of that 2017 mojo, like Sweden and Sardegna last year, or Sardegna and Wales the year before. Three of those attempts just ended down the ditch.

[doubled1978]

Also a bit disappointed from Suninen. When he was driving the R5 (both Oreca Fiesta and Fabia) I thought he would become a big one, the first two outings with the Fiesta WRC were phenomenal, but after that... For some reason he didn't continue to progress. It's quite clear that this year he has to show something more and be more competitive, or it should be his last WRC season. Lappi's pace seems impressive, we don't know how fast the Fiesta really is at this point, and that makes it probably even more impressive. I'm an M-Sport fan, it's great what they keep doing in WRC, but the pace of Tänak and Evans they immediately had when moving to Toyota makes me wonder...

I agree, I think the Fiesta has probably fallen a little bit behind, not much but a little, and with the budgets available to Hyundai/Toyota that’s not surprising, or even a criticism...it’s just reality. I hope that they can find something with the new engine that brings them back, but I think handling is where the biggest gains are to be made...the oversteer is making it unpredictable. With Suninen seemingly losing a bit of confidence, he needs the car to help him.
I hope good road position in Mexico can bring him near the front and help him.

[AnttiL]

I wouldn't expect much from Suninen in Mexico. That event requires a neat driving style because of the altitude eating the power. That said, Lappi hasn't been strong either in Mexico. I think it just requires experience, to learn how to drive those stages the right way.

[BigWorm]

Suninen has good raw pace, no doubt about that. Time on PS in Monte was very good considering there was a battle ahead of him. Needs to be more consistent with that, and with 2 seasons in the Fiesta I don't think it's out of order to expect that from him. We shall see when we return to Europe what he can do but since his debut in 2017 in Poland & Finland his consistency has been quite underwhelming.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That's spot-on. The pace has been there at times so proves he has 'got it' at this level. But this also leads to fans frustration when he doesnt show pace and especially when beaten by his team-mate.

I wonder if its an issue with his mentality. He used to be very stern in interviews and hard on himself, but lately he seems a bit too laid back.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Teemu Suninen Racing @TeemuSuninenRac
Let’s put @RallySweden behind us and focus on the coming rallies. We will return to Europe after 15 weeks and during this time I aim to climb up in the championship standings. We need some top results now. #MSPORTERS

[dimviii]

That's spot-on. The pace has been there at times so proves he has 'got it' at this level.

also prooves that fiesta is up to the game.Oversteer problems havent got to do with something wrong with car.Driving or setup probably.

[AnttiL]

also prooves that fiesta is up to the game.Oversteer problems havent got to do with something wrong with car.Driving or setup probably.

I would say the oversteer is with the driving. But it's clear that the Fiestas have struggled in Rally Finland since 2018, and they struggled now in Sweden with untypically fast stages.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

After seeing Lappi's car burn Rich Millener looked visibly upset.

Also mentioned the budget for rest of year, which would be devastating.

[pantealex]

After seeing Lappi's car burn Rich Millener looked visibly upset.

Also mentioned the budget for rest of year, which would be devastating.

They have insurance for that.
If not then MSport is very stupid.

[Rallyper]

After seeing Lappi's car burn Rich Millener looked visibly upset.

Also mentioned the budget for rest of year, which would be devastating.

Yeah. I heard that too. He talked honestly and spontanius in a kind of affection...

Seems that no insurance after all. However looks stupid.

[TangoBravo]

They have insurance for that.
If not then MSport is very stupid.

How much does it cost to insure a WRC car per event?

[AnttiL]

I remember last year when Paddon had his test crash someone mentioned that M-Sport's insurance system is vulnerable to fires.

[denkimi]

They have insurance for that.
If not then MSport is very stupid.
Msport does not insure their cars, they take the risk themself.

even with a burned car every couple of years, they still save a huge amount of money this way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Msport does not insure their cars, they take the risk themself.

even with a burned car every couple of years, they still save a huge amount of money this way.

Correct. Can you imagine the premiums to insure a WRCar on a season of WRC events.

[TheFlyingTuga]

And I could be wrong, but most motorsports insurance does not cover fires

[pantealex]

Quite interesting.

If you rent a rallycar, insurance is mandatory. (in all those companies which I know, not by any rule)

[denkimi]

Correct. Can you imagine the premiums to insure a WRCar on a season of WRC events.
i once heard it would cost about 8 to 10% of the value of the car per rally. i have never insured a wrc car, but that seems about right to me.

anyway, in the case of msport where they produce the cars and the parts them self, it will always be cheaper not to have insurance.


Quite interesting.

If you rent a rallycar, insurance is mandatory. (in all those companies which I know, not by any rule)
that, or you have to make a deposit close to the value of the car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The loss of a WRC car to the team was heart-breaking.

Perhaps the only benefit of this COVID-19 and the probable reduction in rallies is that M-Sport's budget may stretch to the remaining events.

[tommeke_B]

Benefit??? Rallying is not important, so many people/sponsors will invest far less (or even stop it completely). ;) Sales will drop, and the existing cars aren't going to need any service and parts in the next few months... I know you want to see the positive sides of everything, but this time it isn't there.

[Rallyper]

Benefit??? Rallying is not important, so many people/sponsors will invest far less (or even stop it completely). ;) Sales will drop, and the existing cars aren't going to need any service and parts in the next few months... I know you want to see the positive sides of everything, but this time it isn't there.

Well, I see what you mean. But for MSport it is...

[tommeke_B]

Well, I see what you mean. But for MSport it is...

Do you really think skipping 3 events will make up for their loss of income in all other activities?

[Essaj]

Well, I see what you mean. But for MSport it is...

Why would they do the championship in the first place if losing rounds benefits them? Cmon now...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why would they do the championship in the first place if losing rounds benefits them? Cmon now...

This is only a 'benefit' after losing an €800,000 car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The other issue however is that they will only be able to use their newly-built car for 1 more season (2021) and then it will be obsolete.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/lappi-focuses-on-fiesta-upgrades/

[Rallyper]

Do you really think skipping 3 events will make up for their loss of income in all other activities?

No. But we´re talking loss of the car, in the first place. My comment was on that and what you and Fast Eddie quoted.

[AnttiL]

It's not like M-Sport wouldn't have a car for Lappi in the headquarters even if there was a WRC event this weekend. It's just a huge financial loss.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's not like M-Sport wouldn't have a car for Lappi in the headquarters even if there was a WRC event this weekend. It's just a huge financial loss.

How many spare €800,000 top-spec WRC cars do they have knocking about for 'just in case they're needed' ?

[Rallyper]

How many spare €800,000 top-spec WRC cars do they have knocking about for 'just in case they're needed' ?

At least one in Europe. And a new one could possibly be built in a week? Am I right?

[pantealex]

How many spare €800,000 top-spec WRC cars do they have knocking about for 'just in case they're needed' ?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/69-ford-fiesta-wrc-17/

I counted atleast 3 extra ones ...

[rallyfiend]

At least one in Europe. And a new one could possibly be built in a week? Am I right?

I think you can build one in a week if you have the chassis prepared.

I can't remember where I read it, but I remember someone saying that the huge time is in the preparation of the bodyshell.

[AnttiL]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/69-ford-fiesta-wrc-17/

I counted atleast 3 extra ones ...

Yeah, there's a bunch of them that have been in use lately. But still, some of them could be stripped from the essential parts for the moment so it would still take some money and effort to get it running again.

[dimviii]

It's not like M-Sport wouldn't have a car for Lappi in the headquarters even if there was a WRC event this weekend. It's just a huge financial loss.

i dont think that a loss of a wrc,is a ''huge financial loss'' for a company such M sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Team Principal Rich Millener confessed it was too early to tell what had caused the fire but said the impact of losing a World Rally Car would be deeply felt by M-Sport.

“Well we don’t really know much to be honest, we’re still in a bit of shock to be fair,” Millener said. “Losing a car is never nice to see for any team but that’s going to ask some serious questions of us for the remainder of the year.”

“It’s no secret that this loss will really have a big impact on M-Sport – and we don’t know when the championship will resume which makes the situation really difficult right now. But despite all of this and all of the repercussions, the most important thing is that everyone is safe and unharmed.” Millener added.

[dimviii]

yes m sport is a small garage, that with a loss of a inhouse build car, will drive to cancel their wrc program.
really laughable

[the sniper]

yes m sport is a small garage, that with a loss of a inhouse build car, will drive to cancel their wrc program.
really laughable

To be fair, Millener may have been talking with the wider circumstances in which this happened in mind. Losing an €800,000 car is one thing, losing an €800,000 car just ahead of losing a large part of your business' income (service and sales) for the foreseeable future is another.

[rallyfiend]

To be fair, Millener may have been talking with the wider circumstances in which this happened in mind. Losing an €800,000 car is one thing, losing an €800,000 car just ahead of losing a large part of your business' income (service and sales) for the foreseeable future is another.

Yeah, this.....

[dimviii]

losing a large part of your business' income (service and sales) for the foreseeable future is another.

yeap thats the problem,not the lost wrc car.

[denkimi]

for how much do they sell those fiestas,

if they actually cost them 800k to build, they would have to sell them for over a million.

[Rallyper]

It must be some internal parts possible to be reused in that car, isn´t it? I was thinking of engine, gearbox inner parts.

Or was it a total waste of that car? Anyone?

[AMSS]

It must be some internal parts possible to be reused in that car, isn´t it? I was thinking of engine, gearbox inner parts.

Or was it a total waste of that car? Anyone?

Back in the day when a Toyota Corolla WRC burned completely, there was nothing else that remained visibly intact except the titanium parts (damper topmounts, propshaft etc.) but to my knowledge today titanium is mostly banned

[br21]

nothing to reuse

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even after a big crash a lot of parts can be salvaged, or the car can be re-shelled. But with a fire, its a total loss.

And if M-Sport do have another WRC car they can use for Lappi, thats still one less car theyll have available to sell, hire-out or use for testing...

[Rallyper]

nothing to reuse

I´m stubborn... :)

Not even crankshaft? :) :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

To be fair, Millener may have been talking with the wider circumstances in which this happened in mind. Losing an €800,000 car is one thing, losing an €800,000 car just ahead of losing a large part of your business' income (service and sales) for the foreseeable future is another.

Of course the future is a big problem too, but here Millener was talking straight after the loss of the Lappi WRC car and was referring directly to the effect that would have.

[AnttiL]

Obviously they have a tight budget and when you have big loss like that, it must be off something, like testing and development work.

[Steve Boyd]

I´m stubborn... :)

Not even crankshaft? :) :)

Well, first you have to get it out of a big lump of melted aluminium that used to be the block & crankcase. Then you have to machine off any melted aluminium that is stuck to it. Then you don't know what temperature it got to & for how long so you have to heat treat it all over again. Finally you have to find some sucker to sell it to becaue after all of that you wouldn't want it in a works car :) :) :)

[Rallyper]

Well, first you have to get it out of a big lump of melted aluminium that used to be the block & crankcase. Then you have to machine off any melted aluminium that is stuck to it. Then you don't know what temperature it got to & for how long so you have to heat treat it all over again. Finally you have to find some sucker to sell it to becaue after all of that you wouldn't want it in a works car :) :) :)

Sounds reasonable. ;)

[Berke]

I guess not being able to figure out what caused the fire is another concern for the team at the moment. It sounds like they're unsure if it might happen again or not.

[Tarmop]

We are talking about an in-house replacement and this for sure, for the manuf., doesn`t cost the pricetag of a "dealership". In normal circumstances, probably a weekend of M-Sport cars rallying/racing all over the world would compensate it, but the problem is, that there aren`t many, if any doing that at the moment, nor are many, if any people interested in buying them in the near future. But they have wages to pay, a complex to run and cars to develop etc.
And when we look at the bigger picture, people aren`t buying much of anything these days, except food and what else is absolutely necessary.

[AnttiL]

I guess not being able to figure out what caused the fire is another concern for the team at the moment. It sounds like they're unsure if it might happen again or not.

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-cause-of-lappi-fire-unlikely-to-be-discovered/

correctly guessed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

:(
https://www-dirtfish.imgix.net/IMG_4238-1.jpg?fit=crop&fm=pjpg&h=500&ixlib=php-1.2.1&q=70&rect=0%2C177%2C2016%2C630&w=1600&wpsize=panorama

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TiTanak Remembered - what a team ! :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcnglXDNO94&feature=youtu.be

[denkimi]

i wonder if they could reuse the chassis? i would think it's unlikely, but since nothing else was damaged before the fire perhaps?

[tommeke_B]

i wonder if they could reuse the chassis? i would think it's unlikely, but since nothing else was damaged before the fire perhaps?

The chassis is for the scrapyard for sure. Due to the heat the properties of the steel have likely changed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport focus on 2022 car during pandemic:

https://www.dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/reduced-m-sport-workforces-main-focus-on-2022-car

[satnav]

I guess not being able to figure out what caused the fire is another concern for the team at the moment. It sounds like they're unsure if it might happen again or not.

You are spot on there , the main focus is always to find out why these events have occurred, but it looks like they are in the dark which is very worrying for all concerned.

You just have to think back to the Polo R5 fire problems and how many cars were lost until a solution was found.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont think they'll spend too long worrying about the fire - it could easily be a one-off. The '17 spec Fiesta WRC has been fine for over three years until this...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gus Greensmith backstory podcast:

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/backstories-podcast-gus-greensmith/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi interview incl comparing the 3 different WRCars he's driven:

https://youtu.be/sknDjsKeHE4

[T16]

M-Sport progressing well with the new car.
Hopefully it’s based on an SUV.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/149566/msport-making-good-progress-on-new-2022-car

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hopefully it’s based on an SUV.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/149566/msport-making-good-progress-on-new-2022-car

In your opinion.

[the sniper]

M-Sport progressing well with the new car.
Hopefully it’s based on an SUV.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/149566/msport-making-good-progress-on-new-2022-car

Why hopefully? I thought it didn't matter to you what type of car is used? ;)

[T16]

Why hopefully? I thought it didn't matter to you what type of car is used? ;)

good one.

[Norm75]

Not rally related but a boost for m-sport, they have just been given the tender to supply the British touring car series with engines from 2022-26.

[GigiGalliNo1]

But their Official Bentley program has been cancelled. Perhaps M-Sport are lucky... plus they might get privateers in the Bentley's.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This should help boost their income...

https://dirtfish.com/motorsport/new-m-sport-evaluation-centre-to-open-doors-in-october

[adr17]

This should help boost their income...

https://dirtfish.com/motorsport/new-m-sport-evaluation-centre-to-open-doors-in-october



But, like I say, what’s even more important to me is the people who work here and people I want to bring to work here. This is about safeguarding their futures at M-Sport.”

Spending 19 million on a building and track

But you just made 95 people redundant ? your not putting that in the interview

[Fast Eddie WRC]

MW: “We will come out of this current situation and when we do, we’ll be in a stronger position because we’ve got the Evaluation Center finished. It’s the next step for M-Sport, it gives us the edge over pretty much every other R&D center in northern Europe."

If they didnt spend some more to finish the EC then the millions spent so far would've been for nothing.

The facility should help the company greatly in the long run and thus employ more staff again in the future.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2022 Puma WRC render... looks more like a Focus to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcFTSbNXgAIYNk3?format=jpg&name=small

[T16]

2022 Puma WRC render... looks more like a Focus to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcFTSbNXgAIYNk3?format=jpg&name=small

That looks incredible.
Bring it on.
😍

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Best of M-Sport Week on WRC.com:

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/malcolm-wilson-s-top-m-sport-ford-moments/

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/backstories-malcolm-wilson/

[pantealex]

2022 Puma WRC render... looks more like a Focus to me.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcFTSbNXgAIYNk3?format=jpg&name=small

You promised to hate it, because it´s SUV

We aren´t going to forget it ;)

[tommeke_B]

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18606376.m-sport-sheds-63-jobs-due-covid/?fbclid=IwAR33fJUTIt_Jgi0hJbielC2xh1cezNnFDSIV3tE0 3ql_iRfGFE0N8dcx0c0

Sad news...

[Rallyper]

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18606376.m-sport-sheds-63-jobs-due-covid/?fbclid=IwAR33fJUTIt_Jgi0hJbielC2xh1cezNnFDSIV3tE0 3ql_iRfGFE0N8dcx0c0

Sad news...

Looks to me that it affects more of the Bentley and Jaguar departements. Nothing about Rallying side. Positive at the same...

Don´t know if I´m right about this, though...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The redundancies may have been in their other programme's but the rally side has also lost a huge amount of income - for months no-one was having them run their cars, or was buying cars and parts.

[pantealex]

The redundancies may have been in their other programme's but the rally side has also lost a huge amount of income - for months no-one was having them run their cars, or was buying cars and parts.

Yeah, except Rally4 cars.

[dimviii]

Yeah, except Rally4 cars.

service and rebuilding all r5 cars had stopped?
all new r5 fiestas had ordered from worldwide had stopped?

[br21]

yes, sales of new cars almost died completely, rebuilds of used ones also, this I know from my experience.
orders for Rally4 cars were also mainly the ones placed before those crazy times

[rallyfiend]

service and rebuilding all r5 cars had stopped?
all new r5 fiestas had ordered from worldwide had stopped?

I would assume that like most industries, the supply chain of parts etc required to build cars shutdown during the heaviest of lockdown periods.

A company like M-Sport wouldn't keep a lot of items in stock as it ties up too much money.

[dimviii]

yes, sales of new cars almost died completely, rebuilds of used ones also, this I know from my experience.
orders for Rally4 cars were also mainly the ones placed before those crazy times

yes but thats something which concerns every rally team,all over the world.Msport is not at a different situation from any other rally team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

yes but thats something which concerns every rally team,all over the world.Msport is not at a different situation from any other rally team.

But M-Sport is the only private team in the WRC. Hyundai and Toyota WRT's havent been affected like they have been with their huge factory budgets.

[dimviii]

But M-Sport is the only private team in the WRC. Hyundai and Toyota WRT's havent been affected like they have been with their huge factory budgets.

Msport activities isnt just participating at wrc.
They sell parts/cars last 25 years worldwide.And as you can see,even without ford backing,they didnt bankrupt.Not only they didnt bankrupt,but they could afford millions pounds for tracks,new facilities etc.
In my country,they still buy parts from msport for 1997 wrc escorts.
Msport will be at wrc next 20 years.Hyundai and Toyota will not.
Really tired to listen about the skint private wrc team for so many years.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Msport activities isnt just participating at wrc.
They sell parts/cars last 25 years worldwide.And as you can see,even without ford backing,they didnt bankrupt.Not only they didnt bankrupt,but they could afford millions pounds for tracks,new facilities etc.
In my country,they still buy parts from msport for 1997 wrc escorts.
Msport will be at wrc next 20 years.Hyundai and Toyota will not.
Really tired to listen about the skint private wrc team for so many years.

They are involved in so many series and levels it makes them more exposed to the downturn.

You hate them, we get it - but most dont and are very glad to have them in our sport.

[AMSS]

They are involved in so many series and levels it makes them more exposed to the downturn.

You hate them, we get it - but most dont and are very glad to have them in our sport.

I have to defend dimwii here as I would almost take it as a complement towards M-sport and not as an insult.. They are the only ones in the WRC who actually needs the WRC and therefore the most likely ones to stay in the sport, at some point Toyota and Hyundai will take their money elsewhere, that`s equally sure.
Regardless of opinions it`s great that M-sport are in the sport

[dimviii]

They are involved in so many series and levels it makes them more exposed to the downturn.

You hate them, we get it - but most dont and are very glad to have them in our sport.

no i dont hate them,i respect them as any other team at wrc.
I just hate the silly nationalism speech for teams and drivers.

[Lancia Stratos]

Rally personnel gone as well sadly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I just hate the silly nationalism speech for teams and drivers.

Explain ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally personnel gone as well sadly.

Any details ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Effect on M-Sport of WRCTurkey and Ypres:

Turkey’s decision to move forward by one week from September 24-27 to 17-20 will allow the Ypres Rally to run from October 2-4.

M-Sport team principal Richard Millener told DirtFish: “We’re pleased that we’re getting the chance to compete on these events – as a company, we need to go rallying right now.

“But at the same time, and as we’ve discussed previously, Turkey to Ypres will be a challenge logistically. We’ll just have to get on with it and find a way to make it work.”

Turkey’s move means there will be three rallies in four weeks, going from Rally Estonia (September 4-6) to Ypres Rally (October 2-4).

Millener explained the team will re-prepare the cars twice on the road in this period, once after the Tartu-based event which re-starts the WRC and the second time in Belgium after Turkey and before Ypres.

[Lancia Stratos]

Any details ?

Some long-serving personnel - but I'm not going into names.

[pantealex]

Any details ?

One was that "spare parts selling" woman from Finland, she has said it in her twitter.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/motorsport/m-sport-forced-to-make-redundancies

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2020/08/05/M-SPORT-LAUNCH-NEW-CUSTOMER-SUPPORT-ESHOP

M-Sport will tomorrow launch a new Customer Support eShop to their Bentley Continental GT3, Ford Fiesta (MkII) Rally2 and Ford Fiesta Rally4 customers.

...

Fresh from victory at Rally di Roma Capitale the EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta Rally4 was the first to align within this new class structure, and the Ford Fiesta R5 MkII will now be known as the Ford Fiesta Rally2.

Designers at Dovenby Hall are working on a new Ford Fiesta Rally1 scheduled for 2022, and in Krakow the team are engaged with the development of a new Ford Fiesta Rally3 designed to bridge the gap between two- and four-wheel-drive competition in 2021.

[pantealex]

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2020/08/05/M-SPORT-LAUNCH-NEW-CUSTOMER-SUPPORT-ESHOP

M-Sport will tomorrow launch a new Customer Support eShop to their Bentley Continental GT3, Ford Fiesta (MkII) Rally2 and Ford Fiesta Rally4 customers.

...

Fresh from victory at Rally di Roma Capitale the EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta Rally4 was the first to align within this new class structure, and the Ford Fiesta R5 MkII will now be known as the Ford Fiesta Rally2.

Designers at Dovenby Hall are working on a new Ford Fiesta Rally1 scheduled for 2022, and in Krakow the team are engaged with the development of a new Ford Fiesta Rally3 designed to bridge the gap between two- and four-wheel-drive competition in 2021.

and for those who still live in "old world" Rally1 is top class (like WRC now)
interestingly they are saying Fiesta Rally1 so they aren´t using PUMA ???
Eddie must be really happy, for me it´s bit boring if all different models between Rally 1-5 are Fiesta based.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

and for those who still live in "old world" Rally1 is top class (like WRC now)
interestingly they are saying Fiesta Rally1 so they aren´t using PUMA ???
Eddie must be really happy, for me it´s bit boring if all different models between Rally 1-5 are Fiesta based.

Thanks Alex. And you cant blame them for sticking with the same model, as it must make things simpler and cheaper.

Toyota are staying with the (GR) Yaris too, not one of their SUV's.

[wyler]

good for Eddy, not so much for m-sport I fear. it probably means no more involvement by ford than usual.
on the other side, a good brand strtegy for m-sport, for marketing and building reasons, probably. altough they have to level up the mkII.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

good for Eddy, not so much for m-sport I fear. it probably means no more involvement by ford than usual.
on the other side, a good brand strtegy for m-sport, for marketing and building reasons, probably. altough they have to level up the mkII.

The decision will have been taken between them.

And Ford arent likely to have returned to making it a full factory team in any case with the current economic climate...

[Rally Power]

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2020/08/05/M-SPORT-LAUNCH-NEW-CUSTOMER-SUPPORT-ESHOP
Designers at Dovenby Hall are working on a new Ford Fiesta Rally1 scheduled for 2022, and in Krakow the team are engaged with the development of a new Ford Fiesta Rally3 designed to bridge the gap between two- and four-wheel-drive competition in 2021.

Great to hear MSport is working on the future Fiesta Rally1 (and 3). That probably means no manu will use spaceframe chassis in 2022, which makes sense considering all the other rules changes they have to deal.

Btw, no idea if this will help MSport but Jim Farley, a former Ford Europe chief and a known petrolhead, will become FMC CEO from October 1: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/04/what-to-know-about-fords-incoming-ceo-jim-farley.html

[AnttiL]

Testing the new Rally3 car in Sardegna (basically a 4WD Rally4 car)

https://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it/news/rally/mondiale/2020/08/13-3267734/wrc_junior_2021_primi_test_per_la_ford_fiesta_r2/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Greystoke
https://dirtfish.com/rally/what-makes-greystoke-an-all-time-classic-rally-stage

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport Return to Rally:

https://youtu.be/J0ZUpIHsxtE

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport's Malcolm Wilson sits down with DirtFish to talk about how M-Sport came to be and some of the challenges he faced over the years.

https://youtu.be/9nwVCwI6DF4

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-vaikeni-kriittisesta-kysymyksesta-mm-rallin-jalkeen/

According to this article, M-Sport has been rotating old spare parts on the latest rallies. Suninen was asked whether the team has enough of spare parts for the two final rallies of the season, but he didn't reply anything to the question.

[denkimi]

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-vaikeni-kriittisesta-kysymyksesta-mm-rallin-jalkeen/

According to this article, M-Sport has been rotating old spare parts on the latest rallies. Suninen was asked whether the team has enough of spare parts for the two final rallies of the season, but he didn't reply anything to the question.
No suprise.

I thing someone here already mentioned that they have a new spec engine, but they will not use it untill they have used up all the old engines.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.rallit.fi/teemu-suninen-vaikeni-kriittisesta-kysymyksesta-mm-rallin-jalkeen/

According to this article, M-Sport has been rotating old spare parts on the latest rallies. Suninen was asked whether the team has enough of spare parts for the two final rallies of the season, but he didn't reply anything to the question.

Even Katsuta isnt sure he can drive a Toyota in Ypres after recently crashing two WRC Yaris. If Toyota isnt able to cope with such a financial situation and repairs, you see now why I worried if M-Sport had a couple of big WRC crashes...

[denkimi]

Even Katsuta isnt sure he can drive a Toyota in Ypres after recently crashing two WRC Yaris. If Toyota isnt able to cope with such a financial situation and repairs, you see now why I worried if M-Sport had a couple of big WRC crashes...
Its 6 weeks till ypres. If toyota doesn't have a car for Katsuta, it's only because they see no point in it. It will definately not due to technical or financial reasons.

[AnttiL]

Its 6 weeks till ypres. If toyota doesn't have a car for Katsuta, it's only because they see no point in it. It will definately not due to technical or financial reasons.

This.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnhbZoNXMAAw4pJ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[AnttiL]

Is that a Rally1 car? ;)

[mknight]

Missing prices on that figure

[pantealex]

Missing prices on that figure

Price is different for different buyers ;)

and they sell also used ones

[Eli]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnhbZoNXMAAw4pJ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Nice livery for that Rally1 car, wouldn't mind seeing it in next season's opener.

[pantealex]

Nice livery for that Rally1 car, wouldn't mind seeing it in next season's opener.

Rally1 cars are allowed from 2022, so you must wait one more year.

[Eli]

Rally1 cars are allowed from 2022, so you must wait one more year.

I know, I meant WRC.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoUeJ1eW4AAEKgt?format=jpg&name=medium

M-SPORT SELECTED AS FIA RALLY STAR PARTNER
M-Sport is pleased to announce its selection as the official rally car partner of FIA Rally Star – the largest talent detection programme in the history of rallying.

M-Sport’s involvement will be spearheaded by M-Sport Poland thanks to the unique insight it has into developing young drivers taking their first steps on the world stage.

FIA Rally Star is a truly global driver detection and training programme launched by the FIA with the main aim of uncovering rallying’s most promising future stars. Spotted by ASNs, the best young drivers between 17 and 25 will be selected and subjected to an intense preparation year ahead of entering the 2023 FIA Junior WRC Championship. During this preparation year, the selected drivers will take part in a rigorous training schedule incorporating a variety activities such as physical training and entering national rallies to build experience ahead of a campaign in FIA Junior WRC. The programme is roadmapped to include a fully funded season in the FIA WRC 3 Championship if a selected driver wins the FIA Junior WRC Championship.

The road ahead for any young driver in the world of rallying is tough and even more so on FIA World Rally Championship events which feature some of the most demanding special stages in the world. M-Sport prides itself on having a longstanding history playing its part to support young drivers in rallying from local rallies right the way up to success on the world stage. It is evidenced by M-Sport’s commitment to its ‘Ladder of Opportunity’ while becoming the first, and currently only, rally car manufacturer to offer a car at every level of the FIA’s ‘Rally Car Pyramid’.

As rally car partner to FIA Rally Star, M-Sport feels it is perfectly positioned to take any driver with potential and develop them into a world-class athlete. It is through M-Sport’s ‘Ladder Of Opportunity’ that drivers of any background will be able to learn what it takes to tackle real life rally stages: from learning basic principles in the entry-level Fiesta Rally5, right the way to the WRC-level Rally1 tier.

M-Sport’s experience and resources are unrivalled when it comes to developing young talent. Every single driver that has won a WRC event in the past two years has at one point found themselves behind the wheel of an M-Sport car. In addition to this, M-Sport is more than accustomed to working with young drivers thanks to its involvement with various young driver programmes. Combining its FIA Junior WRC and Fiesta Sport Trophy activities, M-Sport has over a decade of international talent development experience which aligns perfectly with the trajectory of FIA Rally Star.

Malcolm Wilson OBE, M-Sport Managing Director: “Developing young drivers with a clear and concise route from grass-root to top-level rallying has always been at the core of our business, and the FIA Rally Star is perfectly aligned with that goal. We pride ourselves on supporting young drivers and are constantly looking for new and innovative ways of finding the sport’s future stars. There’s never been anything quite like the Rally Star programme, in its scale and ambition, and I’m looking forward to working with the FIA as we search for the next generation of FIA World Rally Champions.”

Maciej Woda, M-Sport Poland Director: “We have been very interested in the FIA Rally Star programme for quite a while now. It is a fantastic initiative that the FIA should be very proud of andreally resonates with M-Sport’s fundamental values. Our ‘Ladder of Opportunity’ mirrors the FIA Rally Car Pyramid now and we are the only manufacturer to have a car available on every tier. The preparation year that selected FIA Rally Star drivers will embark upon will need to be accessible. We could have a driver that has never set foot in a rally car before. We are perfectly placed for this, our range starts with the entry-level Fiesta Rally5 which is great for somebody learning the basics of rallying and finishes with the WRC-level Fiesta Rally1.”

[Sulland]

So Lappi out.
what about the rest of the drivers, and who will come in?

[meh]

Lappi situation from Dirtfish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lappi-expects-to-sit-out-2021-wrc-season/

He does not want to pay for drive, better stay at home with family.

[AnttiL]

So Lappi out.
what about the rest of the drivers, and who will come in?

Rumour has it that Fourmaux steps up to WRC

[steve.mandzij]

Rumour has it that Fourmaux steps up to WRCI predict a Camilli all over again...

[RS]

Lappi situation from Dirtfish: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lappi-expects-to-sit-out-2021-wrc-season/

He does not want to pay for drive, better stay at home with family.

This is what happens when you have only two paying teams.. Lappi and Mikelssen on the sidelines and Suninen, Greensmith and Formaux in the hotseats (although Formaux does seem to have some promise)

[Andre Oliveira]

I think Camilli should do better work in that car. Fiesta WRC'17 better car than the Fiesta RS WRC.

[steve.mandzij]

I think Camilli should do better work in that car. Fiesta WRC'17 better car than the Fiesta RS WRC.yes, today for sure. I meant that Adrien is less experienced now then Camilli was in 2016, and that was a disaster for M-Sport.

[mknight]

Formaux has very little experience on gravel atm. Most of WRC is gravel..

[masa90]

If the team even gets to the line in 2021 they will be in real trouble.

Shame that it has to go to this that b or even c level drivers are there while much better options on the sidelines.

But, it is what it is when the sport is freaking expensive and not doing well at all.

[denkimi]

So Lappi out.
what about the rest of the drivers, and who will come in?
Those that pay.

The economic situation is still not looking good for m-sport, so don't expect them to fund any driver next year.

[RS]

Does Jouhki pay for Suninen with his own money? One has to wonder why when there is no prospect of any paid drives coming up and Teemu hasn't exactly shown a lot to deserve one either.

[rp]

Does Jouhki pay for Suninen with his own money? One has to wonder why when there is no prospect of any paid drives coming up and Teemu hasn't exactly shown a lot to deserve one either.

That´s true! It´s no sense for Jouhki to invest anymore, because there is probably no places in any team in the future. The only way is that they have a long term agreement with Wilson and Malcolm is still thinking that he can get his share if someone is interested to hire Suninen...

[mknight]

That´s true! It´s no sense for Jouhki to invest anymore, because there is probably no places in any team in the future. The only way is that they have a long term agreement with Wilson and Malcolm is still thinking that he can get his share if someone is interested to hire Suninen...

Suninen is certainly not hopeless, and there were drivers at MSport which at some point looked prettty bad and came back - Tanak and Evans. But they were also some that did not like Camilli.

[masa90]

Suninen is pretty good. But not winner atleast yet. Though that Ford at this moment is hopeless. Sad to say, as I personally really like Fords but it just isnt that good.

[AnttiL]

At least Suninen has occasional mojo and speed, consistency comes with time and kilometres.

[Sulland]

i feel Lappi is stronger in the psyche than Suninen.
He seems to go down in flames if he makes a small miss.

[EstWRC]

i basically had a lump in my throat when Lappi was sayin he isnt continuing.

i really really like the guy, such a shame

[Eli]

i basically had a lump in my throat when Lappi was saying he isn't continuing.

i really really like the guy, such a shame

I felt really sad for him too, I really really like him too, and it just shows how much the sport is having trouble to breathe when you have drivers like him on the sidelines. Sure, it wasn't his best season to date and sure he didn't score a podium, but that Fiesta is well under-developed compared to the other two, although by no fault of their own but there is only so much you can expect from it's drivers, especially with this year being extra tough due to COVID... He did the best he could with the tools he had, he should've had a drive next year but as a lot are finding out this year, these are extremely tough times.

[seb_sh]

It's sad that the WRC is once again going through a contraction. It's really important in the future to somehow guarantee more top level cars especially to give more talented people chances to learn. I'm afraid we've witnessed another of those "golden eras" and are now going in a bit of a recession for a few years.

[Essaj]

I felt really sad for him too, I really really like him too, and it just shows how much the sport is having trouble to breathe when you have drivers like him on the sidelines. Sure, it wasn't his best season to date and sure he didn't score a podium, but that Fiesta is well under-developed compared to the other two, although by no fault of their own but there is only so much you can expect from it's drivers, especially with this year being extra tough due to COVID... He did the best he could with the tools he had, he should've had a drive next year but as a lot are finding out this year, these are extremely tough times.

And also he could have been one the best available drivers to develop the new 2022 car :(
How epic would it be if we had 4+ team with 3 paid drivers on all of them + all the hobbyist or drivers willing to take the chance with paying for their seat... I guess man can dream

[Eli]

It's sad that the WRC is once again going through a contraction. It's really important in the future to somehow guarantee more top level cars especially to give more talented people chances to learn. I'm afraid we've witnessed another of those "golden eras" and are now going in a bit of a recession for a few years.

I hope you're right and it will be 'just' a recession for a few years, the way it looks atm, this particular discipline won't survive until the end of this decade if they don't start getting their act together. This discipline doesn't have the time to muck about, manufacturers won't invest their money in it if they don't see some kind of return, it's as simple as that. I really love rallying and the WRC in spite of all their faults but this year has emphasized just how badly they need to work on them, the future of the WRC depends on it.

[doubled1978]

It's sad that the WRC is once again going through a contraction. It's really important in the future to somehow guarantee more top level cars especially to give more talented people chances to learn. I'm afraid we've witnessed another of those "golden eras" and are now going in a bit of a recession for a few years.

Yep, sadly there are lots of good drivers and not many seats. The only seat that is really questionable at Toyota and Hyundai is Breen, and that’s only half a seat at best. Now M-Sport have fallen behind in the development, paying for a seat with them is less attractive than previous years, which possibly means people will be more reluctant to do so.
Hopefully they can do what they are usually good at and come out of the blocks strong in 2022.

[Eli]

And also he could have been one the best available drivers to develop the new 2022 car :(
How epic would it be if we had 4+ team with 3 paid drivers on all of them + all the hobbyist or drivers willing to take the chance with paying for their seat... I guess man can dream

For now I'd even take 3 full teams (imagine M-Sport not having financial woes and having full backing from a Manufacturer) that pay their drivers, of course I would've like to see Lappi next year (or in 2022) but unfortunately reality is harsher than usual this year.

[Essaj]

For now I'd even take 3 full teams (imagine M-Sport not having financial woes and having full backing from a Manufacturer) that pay their drivers, of course I would've like to see Lappi next year (or in 2022) but unfortunately reality is harsher than usual this year.

Yeah 3 proper manufacturer backed teams would work as well, but it would still leave some WRC level drivers out and it makes harder for new talent to get a proper chances, that's why I went with 4 teams.

[mknight]

Now M-Sport have fallen behind in the development, paying for a seat with them is less attractive than previous years, which possibly means people will be more reluctant to do so.
Hopefully they can do what they are usually good at and come out of the blocks strong in 2022.

This is the really big danger for M-Sport.

People that have some funding ("own" or sponsors) that are just on the edge of entering WRC and not 100% sure about the talent. (unlike the "certain" stars that win everything)
People like Greensmith, Tidemand (in 2018), Paddon (last year 2x, without starting though) or even better Suninen in 2017.

These are the people that make M-Sport WRC less of a money sink (ever since start of 2017 it is just a money sink). Losing them cause the car is clearly not competitive is a long term problem. And they are doing that right now to Hyundai (Loubet, Veiby).
Also to show that the car is competetive they need at least one fast driver, they kind of had it this year, even with 2 drivers, but the car wasn't there without any testing.

Surely we all know the main reason for this - COVID.

At this point there is actually very little point for MSport to bring a good driver (they doesn't bring money) or to even spend much money developing the current car for last year while Toyota and Hyundai already are far ahead.

They should and likely will put all efforts towards the 2022 car. Which makes one wonder whether they will start as manu team at all. After all it only limits their testing days.

[steve.mandzij]

On a slightly more serious note, I hope M-Sport keeps their 2020 livery for next year, with a few refresh touches for the sake of newness. it's my favorite livery of theirs ever.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport has held back engine and aero parts it has ready to save money until 2021. This season was a write-off with nothing to fight for by the last few rallies.

Their 2021 car with these new parts will be a much better one. I hope the well-backed Mikkelsen & O.Solberg will take a chance on it.

[AnttiL]

I hope the well-backed Mikkelsen & O.Solberg will take a chance on it.

I don't see this happening. They will both stay in WRC2/3 and look at Rally1 seats for 2022

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Any chance of Fourmaux with help from the FFSA ?

[TheFlyingTuga]

M-Sport has held back engine and aero parts it has ready to save money until 2021. This season was a write-off with nothing to fight for by the last few rallies.

Their 2021 car with these new parts will be a much better one. I hope the well-backed Mikkelsen & O.Solberg will take a chance on it.

I don't think Mikkelsen would be happy to pay for his drive. However, I can see Solberg happen. Malcolm could use Monsters Energy good relationship with Ford (via gymkhana man) to get him a seat. I would put the team as Suninen, Solberg with Gus and Formaux dividing the third car (mainly tarmac for Formaux).

[the sniper]

I don't think Mikkelsen would be happy to pay for his drive. However, I can see Solberg happen. Malcolm could use Monsters Energy good relationship with Ford (via gymkhana man) to get him a seat. I would put the team as Suninen, Solberg with Gus and Formaux dividing the third car (mainly tarmac for Formaux).

It makes sense to me, but Malcolm has had years to capitalise on the possible Monster link and has failed to do so. It'd be interesting to know if they've ever made much effort to make that link up.

I know there are many who don't agree, but I think Oliver has less to lose in RC1 than RC2 and potentially more to gain. He can use the year to adapt to the more powerful car. If he underperforms, he can blame it on the car. While I imagine he'll do very well in RC2 next year, if he doesn't it could somewhat damage his reputation. The best reason to stay in RC2 would be to learn the rallies at a slower pace. At the end of the day, he's never even done the likes of Rally Finland once...

[Sulland]

How much space on car, suit and helmet will be given to the drivers to bring in own sponsors. I think Malcolm need to give them slack to get seats filled in 21.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't think Mikkelsen would be happy to pay for his drive. However, I can see Solberg happen. Malcolm could use Monsters Energy good relationship with Ford (via gymkhana man) to get him a seat. I would put the team as Suninen, Solberg with Gus and Formaux dividing the third car (mainly tarmac for Formaux).

Solberg confirmed he is staying in an R5 car:

https://twitter.com/OliverSolberg01/status/1335999040446672897?s=20


Doing WRC2/3 again seems a bit tame for Mikkelsen. The WRC Fiesta has to be better than the rumoured resurected C3 WRC. He surely has to show his ability at the top level again if he ever wants another factory seat (with Toyota after Ogier).

[Tarmop]

Not so sure. M-Sport will introduce this years upgrades (most of them atleast) next season i believe? Same applies to the C3: they said that this car is going to be a different beast. Who knows, they aren`t i20/ Yaris, but there is a possibility that Pirelli pays for that C3, atleast a bit.

[doubled1978]

It makes sense to me, but Malcolm has had years to capitalise on the possible Monster link and has failed to do so. It'd be interesting to know if they've ever made much effort to make that link up.

I know there are many who don't agree, but I think Oliver has less to lose in RC1 than RC2 and potentially more to gain. He can use the year to adapt to the more powerful car. If he underperforms, he can blame it on the car. While I imagine he'll do very well in RC2 next year, if he doesn't it could somewhat damage his reputation. The best reason to stay in RC2 would be to learn the rallies at a slower pace. At the end of the day, he's never even done the likes of Rally Finland once...

I agree with you, I don’t think Solberg would have any issue with the RC1 car, his lack of experience of the events is his learning curve.

[Sulland]

Solberg tweet deleted, what did it say?

[the sniper]

Solberg tweet deleted, what did it say?

Basically asked what he'll be doing next year by Colin Clark (in a video), talked a bit about learning rallies, said amongst other things, iirc, "for sure in a R5".

Happy to be corrected though.

[er88]

No testing again for Msport this week.

Toyota and Hyundai both starting their Monte preparations with Pirelli's new rubber.

[TypeR]

No point of testing if the 2021 drivers line-up is not decided yet..

[er88]

Maybe so. Although I don't believe that they are as unaware of next seasons line up as they've let on.

I'm pretty sure Suninen will be there, and Msport will have a little idea by now if Fourmaux/Greensmith could stump up some more cash or not. They have been in that part of the world following rally Monza, and I think putting anyone in the car would be a benefit to start fully testing their new upgrades that keep getting postponed..., and also to collect data about the new Pirelli rubber.

They have experience when Ogier was there of bringing big aero updates that didn't work, and that was after lots of testing. Can't expect to just bolt these new parts on and expect everything to go smoothly if there's been little-to-no testing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Testing costs money and that's very tight at M-Sport.

I'm pretty sure the engine and aero will be tested well-enough in development and will improve the car when fitted. Tests for the drivers can wait.

[meh]

I'm pretty sure Suninen will be there, ...

Why you are sure? Why you think his situation is different from Lappi? Why you think he want or can pay for his drive?

[mknight]

Why you are sure? Why you think his situation is different from Lappi? Why you think he want or can pay for his drive?

Cause he or sponsors have been paying at start at MSport and likely also did it in 2020 and he is managed by Jouhki who basically introduced the whole concept of "paying to get WRC drive" to top teams and has a long history of drivers that did that under him. (starting with Hirvonen 2004)

On the other hand Lappi has been payed to some level by Citroen ("rumors" say) since he had 2 year deal and they pulled at end 2019 and is manged by EVEN (Veiby) who was known has very much against paying to drive. (kinda funny at with his son driving at Monza though)

[Rallyper]

I know this sounds a bit crazy, but would JML do services for MSport if he got all for free, but no salary?

[denkimi]

I know this sounds a bit crazy, but would JML do services for MSport if he got all for free, but no salary?
Perhaps he would. But no car will drive at m-sport unless the drivers brings the money to pay for almost all of it.

[AnttiL]

I know this sounds a bit crazy, but would JML do services for MSport if he got all for free, but no salary?

He still has a marketing job at Toyota and wants to keep loyal to them

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131012686_4080730008623062_8218768167396409923_o.j pg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=X7qgafPGTxIAX-r3Lhf&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=31ea9f3d24edcc4a3fa38ad46c6424c4&oe=5FF8C0AC

[mknight]

Let's put a Gurney flap... EVERYWHERE!

Anyway interesting find, either they ran out of "old" fronts or they were persuaded by Suninen & his team to use it.

[the sniper]

Is anybody else worried that we might not see a full M-Sport RC1 team program in 2021? Lappi isn't paying. FFSA aren't interested in Rally1 yet. Mr Jouhki probably won't be able to see a return on funding Suninen again. What options remain? Gus' dad paying for a full season? Even just theoretically, who else? The only reasonable option would seem to be the speculation about Orlen/Lotos funding a seat for Kubica and Katjo, but all seems to be quiet on that front, so maybe there was nothing to that either? Running the team out of Poland might become advantageous with Brexit...

Maybe the time has come where Malcolm will go through with his threat of many years and pull the plug on the WRC/Rally1 program? Concentrating on a proper Rally2 program, with professional drivers, more PET and a more comprehensive development program, might actually make far more sense for M-Sport as a business, selling rally cars.

[meh]

Compared to previous years, this year I have not noticed talks with tone "We don't have enough support from Ford so we are not sure to continue at all". Economically they seem to have hard times, but what is actually going on, probably only insiders know or can assume.

[pantealex]

Is anybody else worried that we might not see a full M-Sport RC1 team program in 2021? Lappi isn't paying. FFSA aren't interested in Rally1 yet. Mr Jouhki probably won't be able to see a return on funding Suninen again. What options remain? Gus' dad paying for a full season? Even just theoretically, who else? The only reasonable option would seem to be the speculation about Orlen/Lotos funding a seat for Kubica and Katjo, but all seems to be quiet on that front, so maybe there was nothing to that either? Running the team out of Poland might become advantageous with Brexit...

Maybe the time has come where Malcolm will go through with his threat of many years and pull the plug on the WRC/Rally1 program? Concentrating on a proper Rally2 program, with professional drivers, more PET and a more comprehensive development program, might actually make far more sense for M-Sport as a business, selling rally cars.

Yes. Why would they pay 200K entry fee to WRC when everyone knows that will be last in Manu Champ ?
FIA just can´t ban Fiesta WRC use for privateers, because we need all possible WRC starters.

[AnttiL]

Yes. Why would they pay 200K entry fee to WRC when everyone knows that will be last in Manu Champ ?
FIA just can´t ban Fiesta WRC use for privateers, because we need all possible WRC starters.

Taking part in the championship also means they need to take part in all rallies with two cars. If they have only Greensmith and maybe some other paying for events here and there, it makes more sense to do them outside the championship. But it would be interesting to see how the cars would be shown on TV or seeded in the starting order etc.

[bwallace]

If some one remember Davidas Jocius He was intresting on paying to M-Sport for seat last season but covid-19 make sense to stop it in next round. Some people saying that might 2021 season he might drive half seson if he got deal with sponsors (but is on rumours).

[AnttiL]

If some one remember Davidas Jocius He was intresting on paying to M-Sport for seat last season but covid-19 make sense to stop it in next round. Some people saying that might 2021 season he might drive half seson if he got deal with sponsors (but is on rumours).

Yeah, he actually got to drive only Monte. He canceled Sweden at last minute because a storm canceled his flight from France to Sweden

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From what Gerard Quinn says, Ford backing for M-Sport has remained pretty substantial. They have always assisted in the development of the improved engine and aero via Ford Performance.

It seems it is M-Sport's own (2020 Covid-affected) finances which are the main problem. Plus the lack of a big sponsorship partner.

2021 WRC entry is a big worry, but if anyone can find a way its Malcolm Wilson.

[AndyRAC]

What is pretty substantial? If it was, they could afford testing, top drivers, etc

Conclusion: Ford don't think the WRC is worth it financially.

[Lancia Stratos]

What is pretty substantial? If it was, they could afford testing, top drivers, etc

Conclusion: Ford don't think the WRC is worth it financially.

Or Gerard Quinn doesn't actually know as he no longer works at Ford - and you can be sure Ford is in no hurry to tell him their plans!

[AnttiL]

From what Gerard Quinn says, Ford backing for M-Sport has remained pretty substantial. They have always assisted in the development of the improved engine and aero via Ford Performance.

It's a different thing to fund running of the team than helping developing the aero and engine, which can be updated only a few times a year (or not, if the team cannot afford to put the new parts in use)

[masa90]

Is anybody else worried that we might not see a full M-Sport RC1 team program in 2021? Lappi isn't paying. FFSA aren't interested in Rally1 yet. Mr Jouhki probably won't be able to see a return on funding Suninen again. What options remain? Gus' dad paying for a full season? Even just theoretically, who else? The only reasonable option would seem to be the speculation about Orlen/Lotos funding a seat for Kubica and Katjo, but all seems to be quiet on that front, so maybe there was nothing to that either? Running the team out of Poland might become advantageous with Brexit...

Maybe the time has come where Malcolm will go through with his threat of many years and pull the plug on the WRC/Rally1 program? Concentrating on a proper Rally2 program, with professional drivers, more PET and a more comprehensive development program, might actually make far more sense for M-Sport as a business, selling rally cars.

That would be horrible for the sport. Honestly I can not see any new teams joining, sport really needs to change up to be cheaper. If it just goes to two team battle might be crushing for the sport. Atleast 09-11 had loads of privateers. Now there is not many at all.

[Francis44]

What is pretty substantial? If it was, they could afford testing, top drivers, etc

Conclusion: Ford don't think the WRC is worth it financially.

The current Fiesta WRC development was payed in interity by Ford.

[Lancia Stratos]

The current Fiesta WRC development was payed in interity by Ford.

Malcolm wishes it was..........

[AndyRAC]

The current Fiesta WRC development was payed in interity by Ford.

That's 3-4 years ago. What about now?

[Andre Oliveira]

The main thing is the driver. Works team pay for the drive and hire who wants... not who pay to drive.

One thing that cause me some surprise is the inability to get a big sponsor to the car.

[AndyRAC]

One thing that cause me some surprise is the inability to get a big sponsor to the car.

It shouldn't be a surprise though........The sport isn't visible enough for sponsors. Far easier to sponsor a football team/ tournament....

[Franky]

It shouldn't be a surprise though........The sport isn't visible enough for sponsors. Far easier to sponsor a football team/ tournament....

But has M-Sport even had "smaller" sponsorships?

[Francis44]

It shouldn't be a surprise though........The sport isn't visible enough for sponsors. Far easier to sponsor a football team/ tournament....

Really?! Last time I checked there are several sponsors on the other teams's cars.

Just to name a few: Microsoft, DMG Mori, Panasonic, Hanon, Shell.

[wyler]

Really?! Last time I checked there are several sponsors on the other teams's cars.

Just to name a few: Microsoft, DMG Mori, Panasonic, Hanon, Shell.

and that's exactly the point. sponsor want huge name next to it, (and some possibilities to win also can help).
it's way different to say "I've a partnership with toyota/hiunday" than "I've a partnership with m-sport". first case u can use it with non-rally fans, they'll get it's important anyway.
the second case will mean nothing for most of the people.

[the sniper]

One thing that cause me some surprise is the inability to get a big sponsor to the car.

This is the one thing that I'd love to know. To what extent M-Sport have tried to attract major sponsors themselves rather than relying on drivers to do it for them. As said before, there would seem like natural candidates. Someone like Monster Energy or Lukoil. Once Citroen pulled out, where did the Red Bull money go? It hasn't discernibly gone into the WRC itself... I seem to remember though that it might have been said that Malcolm has set a high price for title sponsorship of the team which can't/hasn't been met. Maybe if he doesn't think that number can be reached it isn't worth putting much effort into trying to get it?


It shouldn't be a surprise though........The sport isn't visible enough for sponsors. Far easier to sponsor a football team/ tournament....

Yet the WTCC and its teams, which I can not accept has a greater following than the WRC, has all sorts of sponsors. What may be different is that many of those sponsors seem to also have an arrangement with the promoter/Eurosport. Whereas WRC Administrator doesn't seem to share its spoils.


Really?! Last time I checked there are several sponsors on the other teams's cars.

Just to name a few: Microsoft, DMG Mori, Panasonic, Hanon, Shell.

To be fair to Malcolm though, the Toyota deals are probably relatively small fry business to business deals arranged/encourage by Mr Toyoda. If Toyota Corp are doing a $100m+ deal with the likes of Microsoft, DMG Mori or Panasonic, with Mr Toyoda's personal interest in the Motorsport programs, it won't be hard to get a bit of change diverted towards the WRC program.

That's not to say Ford couldn't do the same, but maybe that's why Castrol are still on the car...?

[Andre Oliveira]

In the European Rally Championship, the ERC Junior class will be reserved for drivers entered with Rally3 cars, with the objective to reduce season costs and create a more accessible pathway for young drivers coming from two-wheel drive categories. In order to ease this pathway, the FIA ERC promoter will offer attractive prizes for both the ERC3 and ERC Junior Champions.



I hope that bring M-Sport a big amount of money.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH I cant remember the M-Sport run cars having a big main company sponsor on the side of the car since Castrol in about 2007. They are still there now but much smaller.

Abu Dhabi were around for a year or two but pulled out.

Red Bull (with Ogier) was the only other one in recent times.

I suppose no-one will put in big money unless they think the team/driver has a good chance of fighting for wins. And thats super-tough vs the might of Toyota & Hyundai.

Monster Energy would be ideal and without Red Bull being around WRC anymore to take the glory...

[mknight]

Redbull is a personal sponsors of multiple drivers.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpefPORW8AAnKYs?format=jpg&name=large

[the sniper]

I know this sounds a bit crazy, but would JML do services for MSport if he got all for free, but no salary?

I think we can probably cross JML off the list of potential candidates for an M-Sport drive now...

Though stranger things have happened, like JML becoming Toyota team principle in the first place! :D

[dimviii]

The two-way problem M‑Sport faced in 2020

Underperforming drivers unhappy with car. Drivers not getting results to showcase car. M-Sport faced a vicious cycle in 2020.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-two-way-problem-m%e2%80%91sport-faced-in-2020/

[Andre Oliveira]

Mikkelsen?

Suninen
Greensmith
(Formaux/Mikkelsen) shared?

Very unlikely no?

[Sulland]

They can not come with Suninen and Greensmith as top dogs. Will be a lot of DNFs.
They need someone to bring the car to points.