M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[Allez Andruet]

You think he was driving to his maximum, or told to go steady to help Ogier?

Well he did his job, whatever the instructions were.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans nor Breen are likely to challenge for many wins.

Evans could have a good season in 2019 - he now has bags of experience and done tons of testing in the Fiesta WRC.

But personally I'd like to give Breen a shot with a full season.

And Evans would be ideal to develop and drive the new Fiesta R5.

[mmm]

Evans or Breen... don't really care. Personally would like that seat to go to Tidemand, but that is likely not going to happen.

[deephouse]

Evans was great for M-Sport. He did exactly what he was told to do. But is that helping him to secure a seat. I don't know. Maybe he could say to himself fuck it. I will go on my own and do my best and maybe show a way more, maybe the other teams (Toyota, Hyundai - I don't count Citroen since they are not a proper team at all and don't care about pretty much anything) would pay interest in him then. But that would be risky again if there wouldn't be any offers, so I think he realizes that and he didn't have a single choice and be slow just for Ogier.

On the other side Breen is not shown everything because he hasn't had the right opportunity yet (again Citroen). But he also led a few times, won couple of stages, achieve podium, bring many consistent results for the team (and all that with C3).

But first Malcolm needs to say it officially if the team is even in WRC for the nex season or not then he could start looking for a their first driver who will lead the team.

[T16]

Well he did his job, whatever the instructions were.

My point is that if 2018 was a true representation of his max speed, then he shouldn't really get another go at it.

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/DanielDarrall/status/1072923872041803776

[T16]

https://twitter.com/DanielDarrall/status/1072923872041803776

Sounds like he’s a bit pissed off (and kind of on bahalf of Ford?)... why the hell don’t they have some sort of contract in place where M-Sport have to give them more credit for the results if they are as involved as that message implies?
From the impression I’ve got regarding the Ford involvement over the last few years, it doesn’t add up.

[cali]

but has breen shown his full potential yet? Evans had 4 full seasons and with 1 victory and a few podiums in that time mostly thanks to Dmacks aswell y not take a risk on breen and go with him. Wilson knows what breens capable of from their s2000 days so why not he cant do much worse than evansS2000 don't really mean much in WRC...

[Tarmop]

It does actually, S2000 was a purpose built piece of rally-engineering, quite a bit ahead of R5 in terms of that.

[cali]

It does actually, S2000 was a purpose built piece of rally-engineering, quite a bit ahead of R5 in terms of that.You are talking about machinery, I'm talking about drivers speed and results in support series which does not really mean much in WRC.

[RS]

Sounds like he’s a bit pissed off (and kind of on bahalf of Ford?)... why the hell don’t they have some sort of contract in place where M-Sport have to give them more credit for the results if they are as involved as that message implies?
From the impression I’ve got regarding the Ford involvement over the last few years, it doesn’t add up.

Well it’s a lot more than nothing but clearly not close to the same level of the other teams if they can’t even afford to pay drivers.

[deephouse]

No, it's not that they can't. They WON't.

[AnttiL]

M-Sport needs a new bluuford https://www.m-sport.co.uk/weather-forecaster

[pantealex]

M-Sport needs a new bluuford https://www.m-sport.co.uk/weather-forecaster

He left with Tänak year ago.

[AnttiL]

He left with Tänak year ago.

I know, but meant they need a guy who's as good as bluuford ;) It was not only once that Ogier blamed the 2018 weather guy for bad tyre choices.

[GravelBen]

Ogier always finds someone else to blame when things don't go his way though.

[denkimi]

It does actually, S2000 was a purpose built piece of rally-engineering, quite a bit ahead of R5 in terms of that.
what part of an r5 car is not purpose built for rallying?

[Tarmop]

Quite many roadcar parts (famous Fiesta R5 power steering froma Ford Galaxy for instance), hence the much cheaper price of a new car.

[Mirek]

The funny thing is that the parts which must come from stock market can come from anywhere. At some points I think that nearly all cars had Garrett turbocharger from BMW M5.

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport seeks FIA 2019 deadline extension in fight for WRC future

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140701/msport-seeks-extension-in-fight-for-wrc-future

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's no bluff... M-Sport NEED a sponsor.

[deephouse]

Monster, Martini, Castrol, even Redbull, Rockstar, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... Where are everyone now.

[tommeke_B]

Not the best time from M-Sport. I guess last few years the massive R5 sales and service/parts made up a lot. Now that seems to be falling back, at the time they need to invest money on developing a new (proper) R5 car to secure their future.

[able1]

Monster, Martini, Castrol, even Redbull, Rockstar, Abu Dhabi, Qatar... Where are everyone now.
There are no top drivers in msprt , no sponsor will just throw money at them , they want something im return

[mknight]

There are no top drivers in msprt , no sponsor will just throw money at them , they want something im return
Yep, imo Wilsons tactic of getting drivers that pay only goes so far.
He should have gotten himself one known good driver (that can get podiums) to have something to show sponsors. Preferably also one with good marketing potential.

Slme examples that were available this year: Latvala, Lappi, Paddon and Østberg. A bit too late now imo.

[tommeke_B]

Paddon and Ostberg are still available. And I think he already has a driver that could get some podiums next year, a Finnish one. ;)

[Tarmop]

WRC needs M-Sport more than M-Sport WRC. He got his titles, paying himself for the last or at best case scenario, 3. place in the manuf. championship, isn`t really appealing, after the previous two years, or is it?

[mknight]

Paddon and Ostberg are still available. And I think he already has a driver that could get some podiums next year, a Finnish one. ;)
Yes but it's quite late to start getting sponsors on Paddon or Østberg now.
Suninen is not (yet) a known good driver that will attract sponsors. It's early and he is learning but on some rallies this year he was last by quite some margin.

@Tarmoo, Msport without WRC will have to fire quite a lot of people that now work on WRC cars and write off a lot of sunken costs in the cars.

[dimviii]

Not the best time from M-Sport. I guess last few years the massive R5 sales and service/parts made up a lot. Now that seems to be falling back, at the time they need to invest money on developing a new (proper) R5 car to secure their future.

you really believe that this business cant afford wrc entry?

[tommeke_B]

you really believe that this business cant afford wrc entry?

It's not about being able to afford it. It's the question if the investment is still reasonable regarding the return. With the previous generation of WRC-cars, the works cars were some sort of advertising for the sales and running of the private WRC-cars. And there were quite a few of them. Nowadays being there with a WRC team doesn't lead to selling or renting out any other WRC-cars. Maybe it's better for his business to focus on R5 and R2.

Anyway with current WRC I think history will repeat itself, costs will get out of hand and manufacturers will eventually pull out. It's not a real question if it will happen, but when...

[Rallyper]

If he has to choose I think he will decide for developing R5 Evo 3 like tommeke_B says.

[Andre Oliveira]

New R5. Not evo.

[dimviii]

It's not about being able to afford it. It's the question if the investment is still reasonable regarding the return. With the previous generation of WRC-cars, the works cars were some sort of advertising for the sales and running of the private WRC-cars. And there were quite a few of them. Nowadays being there with a WRC team doesn't lead to selling or renting out any other WRC-cars. Maybe it's better for his business to focus on R5 and R2.

Anyway with current WRC I think history will repeat itself, costs will get out of hand and manufacturers will eventually pull out. It's not a real question if it will happen, but when...

now you are talking.
The problem isnt that he cant afford,but he dont want to entry wrc because the return isnt same like previous years.
Of course Malcolm forgot to tell us that incomes from 250 cars r5, maybe are x 10 x 20 x30 ? times bigger than customers wrc entries from previous years.


ps at his position i would do/talk the same.

[RS]

Anyway with current WRC I think history will repeat itself, costs will get out of hand and manufacturers will eventually pull out. It's not a real question if it will happen, but when...

If the figures being discussed somewhere on this forum are to be believed (circa 70m euro for Hyundai and Toyota) then I think it's going that way. WRC is pretty strong now compared to how it was just a few years ago but I'm not sure it can be worth THAT much to a manufacturer. Here in the UK, publicity surrounding WRC is still pretty minimal, I don't know how it is in other countries?

And there are not that many "real" sponsors involved with the teams. Toyota has an impressive roster, other than that it's just Red Bull and a few automotive industry related suppliers.

[deephouse]

Even when he had Ogier on board probably Redbull didn't pay for the whole operation. Especially in 2017.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The cost of the '17 WRCar's is a big issue. Even Citroen cant afford to run 3 cars without another sponsor.

Here's Ford Europe Gerrard Quinn on the M-Sport Ford situation:
"Cost was always going to be an issue with the modern WRC cars - the spectacle is great but when the cost is €300K to €400K more than the outgoing WRC car then it will become difficult to sustain particularly when cars are exclusive to WRC only."

[Got Mail]

you really believe that this business cant afford wrc entry?

100% Yes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There are no top drivers in msprt , no sponsor will just throw money at them , they want something im return

Sorry but it works the other way round - the Team needs the money first before they can afford sign a driver.

Wilson had to put up his own money to sign Ogier, Red Bull came in after.

[Rally Power]

Having 4 manus is important for the series; no idea if they’re doing it, but it’d be in the WRC promoter interest to help Wilson finding new sponsors or even asking their parent company (Red Bull) to keep providing MSport some support (sponsoring 2 teams wouldn’t be a problem, they do the same in F1).

This said and considering Ford rally heritage, besides MSport current success, it’s a shame not seeing Ford properly investing in the WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gerrard Quinn on doubts about Ford funding:
"It's already done, contracts in place, funding ($$'s), resources, tech support etc. It is likely to be other contributing partners whose negotiations are being finalised. I am sure that our partners MSport will reveal this in good time. In the meantime our focus is 2019 testing..."

[mknight]

Sorry but it works the other way round - the Team needs the money first before they can afford sign a driver.

Wilson had to put up his own money to sign Ogier, Red Bull came in after.

Looks like you just cotradicted yourself.
First they used (own) money to get a top driver (Ogier) which then got sponsors interested. Just like able1 and others said.

Now they are trying to do it the other way (first part of your post) and so far it doesn't seem to work.

[able1]

Sorry but it works the other way round - the Team needs the money first before they can afford sign a driver.

Wilson had to put up his own money to sign Ogier, Red Bull came in after.

Vicious circle .. without money you can't have top driver, without top driver you can't find sponsors.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looks like you just cotradicted yourself.
First they used (own) money to get a top driver (Ogier) which then got sponsors interested. Just like able1 and others said.

Now they are trying to do it the other way (first part of your post) and so far it doesn't seem to work.

They had to use Wilson's own money to get Ogier. He cant afford to do that again in case no sponsor comes.

He needs a sponsors money first..

[able1]

They had to use Wilson's own money to get Ogier. He cant afford to do that again in case no sponsor comes.

He needs a sponsors money first..

Yes . But at least there is hope. Wilson is a very smart businessman , he would not ask for extension without a possible sponsor in sight.

[dimviii]

100% Yes.

what changed from the last 15 years?
they were present non stop at wrc level,and the company growed very much through this situation.

[RS]

Having 4 manus is important for the series; no idea if they’re doing it, but it’d be in the WRC promoter interest to help Wilson finding new sponsors or even asking their parent company (Red Bull) to keep providing MSport some support (sponsoring 2 teams wouldn’t be a problem, they do the same in F1).

Has it even been confirmed they are moving to Citroen as a team sponsor? Maybe just continuing as a personal sponsor of Ogier?

[T16]

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202656]The cost of the '17 WRCar's is a big issue. Even Citroen cant afford to run 3 cars without another sponsor.

But you said there was no financial difference between what Redbull and Abu-Dhabi bring Citroen didn't you? Or have you changed your mind now?

[Rallyper]

Everything should be solved if FIA doesn´t need champagne and caviar for every breakfast.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202656]The cost of the '17 WRCar's is a big issue. Even Citroen cant afford to run 3 cars without another sponsor.

But you said there was no financial difference between what Redbull and Abu-Dhabi bring Citroen didn't you? Or have you changed your mind now?

Mis-interpreting yet again.

I said I based this on M-Sport being able to run 3 cars in 2018 with Red Bull.

Citroen simply cant pay the difference, unlike Mr Wilson.

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1202674]

Mis-interpreting yet again.

I said I based this on M-Sport being able to run 3 cars in 2018 with Red Bull.

Citroen simply cant pay the difference, unlike Mr Wilson.


I think it was M-Sport the company that funded Ogier, not Mr Wilson.

[able1]

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie WRC;1202722]


I think it was M-Sport the company that funded Ogier, not Mr Wilson.
Wilson admitted several occasions that he used his own money to subsidize Ogier wage

[deephouse]

[QUOTE=T16;1202674]Citroen simply cant pay the difference, unlike Mr Wilson.

Sure they can but they are cheap in compare of him. With recently PSA buying Opel, Peugeot pulling out of Dakar & World RX they have budget, I'm sure. But they won't.. It's been disscused several times already. Abu Dhabi pulling the strings and they blame them that they don't have the money. Complete bullshit. Except if Ogier demand so much paying for him to come to the team that they really don't have any other money left. Then he is one hell of negotiator. Lappi I think is not that much payed. Especially because he come from two strongs teams and now to the completely strange one.

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1202723]
Wilson admitted several occasions that he used his own money to subsidize Ogier wage
It was from the M-Sport reserves, not his own pocket.

[deephouse]

[QUOTE=able1;1202727]
It was from the M-Sport reserves, not his own pocket.

Or it was Ogier demanding too much for his spoiled ass

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1202734]

Or it was Ogier demanding too much for his spoiled ass

Which ass? The one that has just won two championships with the most under-funded team from them all? Worth every penny they paid him.

[deephouse]

Still no one else wanted him in these two years. With M-Sport uncertain participation now it's clear he left the team because he want to stay in WRC or he would need to drive for a less than he make in these two years, so maybe that's the reason he is gone despite loving Malcolm and the team. I bet he wanted to be in Hyundai in 2017 and in 2018 in Toyota. And in both cases they don't wanted him. And in 2019 too, so he ended in Shitroen (like some call them like that).

[T16]

[QUOTE=deephouse;1202739]Still no one else wanted him in these two years.

Didn’t he have offers from Toyota and Citroen for 2017?

[Andre Oliveira]

Josh Moffett having fun with Fiesta WRC

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t66.18014-6/49010228_397865400953257_8923358785131995673_n.mp4 ?_nc_cat=105&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6Im9lcF9oZCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=01f7573d9a1f3ba4da518358f89fb40c&oe=5CD8AF6A

[AnttiL]

Josh Moffett having fun with Fiesta WRC

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t66.18014-6/49010228_397865400953257_8923358785131995673_n.mp4 ?_nc_cat=105&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6Im9lcF9oZCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=01f7573d9a1f3ba4da518358f89fb40c&oe=5CD8AF6A

What was this arranged for?

[the sniper]

What was this arranged for?

The Moffett's have put a lot of money M-Sport's way over the past few years, maybe just a free gift ride...

[deephouse]

[QUOTE=deephouse;1202739]Still no one else wanted him in these two years.

Didn’t he have offers from Toyota and Citroen for 2017?

If they wanted him so badly he would be in one of those teams right away, not taking privateer. And if Neuville wouldn't screwed first two events he would probably lose it with a privateer. But okay he won it, and this year also. Remarkable thing, but still he demand too much I think. We will see how much will team with no care will do for his title. Or Lappi.

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1202740]

If they wanted him so badly he would be in one of those teams right away, not taking privateer. And if Neuville wouldn't screwed first two events he would probably lose it with a privateer. But okay he won it, and this year also. Remarkable thing, but still he demand too much I think. We will see how much will team with no care will do for his title. Or Lappi.

He turned them both down, didn’t he? Drove the Toyota, didn’t like it. I’m not sure why he didn’t end up at Citroen, but it was his decision, given they made so much noise publically about wanting him.

You say this and that about IF neuvulle didn’t screw up two rounds etc... I’m going to assume that you know the basics of rallying and within that assumption, I’m going to guess that you also know the one with the most points at the end of the year is the winner?

If he demanded TOO much, people wouldn’t employ him. He demands what he is worth, three (or is it actually four with Peugeot?) teams have agreed this, whilst he has been a professional driver (one of them twice), and that is why he has been in their employment and continues to be paid what he is worth.

It really is silly to hear a guy on a forum telling people Ogier isn’t worth what he gets paid.

[Tarmop]

Citroen didn`t give him a test, wich was one of the main given arguments+ Matton and his attitude most certainly.

[mknight]

Toyota gave him a test and offered contract but it looked like a forced effort from JPN against Tommis will and it seemed like Ogier saw that.
Tommi even admitted just a month or so later that he kind of didn't want him.

[deephouse]

[QUOTE=deephouse;1202756]

He turned them both down, didn’t he? Drove the Toyota, didn’t like it. I’m not sure why he didn’t end up at Citroen, but it was his decision, given they made so much noise publically about wanting him.

You say this and that about IF neuvulle didn’t screw up two rounds etc... I’m going to assume that you know the basics of rallying and within that assumption, I’m going to guess that you also know the one with the most points at the end of the year is the winner?

If he demanded TOO much, people wouldn’t employ him. He demands what he is worth, three (or is it actually four with Peugeot?) teams have agreed this, whilst he has been a professional driver (one of them twice), and that is why he has been in their employment and continues to be paid what he is worth.

It really is silly to hear a guy on a forum telling people Ogier isn’t worth what he gets paid.

and you are like mr know everything here, just arguing for the couple of weeks now with almost everyone. even Not is not that annoying

[T16]

[QUOTE=T16;1202762]

and you are like mr know everything here, just arguing for the couple of weeks now with almost everyone. even Not is not that annoying

It's a discussion forum and when someone says something interesting or, in your case, really daft, and I can be arsed, I will reply.

[deephouse]

You reply to all with total nonsense and spiting. You are acting like your opinion only matters and that you are only one here. You are not god. Just don't make any kids, we don't need that kind of popularity on this planet.

[T16]

You reply to all with total nonsense and spiting. You are acting like your opinion only matters and that you are only one here. You are not god. Just don't make any kids, we don't need that kind of popularity on this planet.

I might have a strong opinion, but if I say something, i generally believe in it and I’m therefore prepared to back it up.

If someone makes a point that gives me reason to re-think what I have said, I will always acknowledge this.

Maybe I hit a nerve calling your comments about Ogier being overpaid silly?

Sorry, but I think telling someone not to have kids is way more spiteful than any response I’ve given.

[deephouse]

It's because you deserve it.

[WUff1]

Daniel Barrit as new co-driver for Katsuta at selected events with Yaris WRC. We´ll see what this means for Evans, even if M-Sport manages to enter WRC 2019 at all.

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/12/19/katsuta-bekommt-evans-beifahrer-und-wrc-einsaetze/

[wia5958]

Sorry, but I think telling someone not to have kids is way more spiteful than any response I’ve given.


Not mention his spitefull comments against citroen and ogier. He is in fact the most spitefull member i have seen on here. More so than NOT against toyota and even thats not as spitefull as his hatred against citroen. Im not an ogier fan but i dont voice it. Its personal preference and i dont try to influence it others. Neither am i a citroen fan after what they done on meeke. But this is a business for citroen. And in any business theres a fall guy for problems. Unfortunatly in this case it was a driver. But the negativity deephouse brings against citroen and ogier is neither needed or Wanted by many on this forum

[GravelBen]

NOT may be a racist sexist muppet but he doesn't discriminate between rally teams, he hates and makes stupid comments about all of them.

[spiderem]

Are we now debating on forum members' attributes? Jez the wait till the Monte will be long. very long...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

MS-RT Supporters Club invitation to join for 2019 has just be issued.

Hopefully a sign they are confident of a WRC entry.

https://www.m-sportstore.com/products/m-sport-supporters-club-membership-2018

[BobJones]

NOT may be a racist sexist muppet but he doesn't discriminate between rally teams, he hates and makes stupid comments about all of them.

Now, now, 'he or she'.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If anyone is interested in supporting M-Sport:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2264/1623/products/MS-RT_SupportersClub_Logo_BOLD1_201118_480x480.jpg?v= 1545066421

Membership includes:

Welcome pack consisting of 2019 supporters’ club bobble hat, keying, sticker and membership card delivered to your address. (3-4 days to dispatch)

All of the latest news direct to your inbox before it hits our public platforms.

Exclusive hospitality access at selected WRC events.

Discount codes for Supporters Club members at the M-Sport Store.

Opportunities to win one-of-a-kind memorabilia in exclusive Supporter Club competitions.

Access to closed social media accounts.

So far in 2017 & 2018 we have had club members taken out for passenger rides with Ott Tanak & Elfyn Evans at Rallyday, go behind the scenes with M-Sport World Rally Team at Wales Rally GB, Rally Finland & Rally Germany.

Win tickets to Autosport International, Goodwood Festival of Speed, meet Teemu Suninen & Mikko Markkula and join the entire team at M-Sport to celebrate the 2017 & 2018 World Rally Championship victory! These are just a few of the experiences we have made possible so far and we have many more to come!

The process of joining is the same as before, simple order from www.m-sportstore.com and we will prepare and send your pack directly to you! If you have any requests regarding your membership, simply put them in the notes box and we will do all we can to help!

All that is left to say is thank you for your support through 2018, we hope you had as much fun as we did! We wish you a Merry Christmas and all the best for 2019.

[T16]

Official M-Sport release:

https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2018/12/21/M-SPORT-FORD-WORLD-RALLY-TEAM-ANNOUNCE-PLANS-FOR-2019

[Ds3]

Congratulations and success ...
Malcolm deserves him, he's a great man..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Never in doubt ! ;)

[AnttiL]

The big news is that Richard Millener is the new team principal with Wilson focusing more on commercial side.

[Munkvy]

Pontus is also quite big news, lets see if he does a good job of stepping up and then if he can get sponsorship to do the full season...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looking on his website Pontus has many, many different sponsors.

[Rally Power]

Looking on his website Pontus has many, many different sponsors.

Actually they seem to be small and medium businesses, not the big investors Ericsson had in F1, which eventually bought Sauber. Tidemand announcement sounds more to be a deal for Rally Sweden that somehow was extended to MC, rather than a full season campaign.
Anyway, having him doing more events would certainly be great as he’s really talented. Fingers crossed for him.

[Rallyper]

Actually they seem to be small and medium businesses, not the big investors Ericsson had in F1, which eventually bought Sauber. Tidemand announcement sounds more to be a deal for Rally Sweden that somehow was extended to MC, rather than a full season campaign.
Anyway, having him doing more events would certainly be great as he’s really talented. Fingers crossed for him.

I believe they haven´t updated his website. Still Even management appears.

Would be delighted if some really big sponsors show up on an upgraded site...

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport changed to Sachs ZF.

[Mirek]

Do You mean damper supplier?

[dimviii]

yes they changed dampers supplier

[able1]

M-Sport changed to Sachs ZF.

i could be wrong but i remember ogier using two different damper suppliers. one for tarmac and other for gravel.

[AMSS]

i could be wrong but i remember ogier using two different damper suppliers. one for tarmac and other for gravel.

Ogier used Sachs from Finland until the end of the season on all gravel events and Reiger on tarmac, the funny thing is there were rumours Citroen tested on Reiger with Ogier in their pre Monte tests but I don`t know if it`s true or not BR21 might know more.

[br21]

Ogier used Sachs from Finland until the end of the season on all gravel events and Reiger on tarmac, the funny thing is there were rumours Citroen tested on Reiger with Ogier in their pre Monte tests but I don`t know if it`s true or not BR21 might know more.

Yes, Citroen with Ogier tested different dampers, Reigers for sure also. Last season they were using Citroen Racing/Ohlins product. I think still not sure what they will finally choose.
M-Sport working more with ZF might be really interesting, if they change a little bit the mindset about car behavior they can really win a lot with this cooperation I believe.

[User]

What's going on with the car that Bottas will use on the Artic Lapland Rally?

https://twitter.com/RalliSM/status/1081568295432663040

https://i.redd.it/9h9azpcdqx821.jpg

Looks like the Fiesta WRC but does not have the WRC front. R5 front?

[Tarmop]

New aero probably, don`t want to believe that has got something to do with R5, but who knows. For sure M-Sport takes the max. out of this outing in terms of development also.

[AnttiL]

Maybe just a demonstration car taped in the livery?

[TWRC]

What's going on with the car that Bottas will use on the Artic Lapland Rally?

https://twitter.com/RalliSM/status/1081568295432663040

https://i.redd.it/9h9azpcdqx821.jpg

Looks like the Fiesta WRC but does not have the WRC front. R5 front?
It looks like a Dytko Fiesta Proto.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EllWAfSYlJE/maxresdefault.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

It is the Dytko car. Real car arrives 10 days before rally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It is the Dytko car. Real car arrives 10 days before rally.

Thanks for clearing that up !

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140939/wrc2-driver-greensmith-gets-fiesta-wrc-shot

Greensmith to drive Portugal in a WRC car

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140939/wrc2-driver-greensmith-gets-fiesta-wrc-shot

Greensmith to drive Portugal in a WRC car

50% of first Crystal ball prediction secured.

[Essaj]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140939/wrc2-driver-greensmith-gets-fiesta-wrc-shot

Greensmith to drive Portugal in a WRC car

Why do I smell bull shit here? :stareup:

"At the start of 2017, I said I wanted to be in a full factory-backed drive in two or three years and I've achieved that."

[T16]

Why do I smell bull shit here? :stareup:

"At the start of 2017, I said I wanted to be in a full factory-backed drive in two or three years and I've achieved that."

Isn't he referring to his WRC2 Pro drive?

[Essaj]

Isn't he referring to his WRC2 Pro drive?

Still doubt it tbh

[deephouse]

Still doubt it tbh

He obviously find himself funding for Portugal outing. Malcolm said that 3rd car is reserved for whoever bring money. Tidemand have first two rounds and now Greensmith one. Both thinking that M-Sport will give them more drives this year if they will do good. I don't think so. Even if one of them win still this is not necessary that they will get more out of it. Maybe next year or (if Evans will be that bad that Wilson will need a replacement) but I don't think that he will do that like Hyundai and Citroen did it already.

[mknight]

Both thinking that M-Sport will give them more drives this year if they will do good. I don't think so. Even if one of them win still this is not necessary that they will get more out of it. Maybe next year or (if Evans will be that bad that Wilson will need a replacement) but I don't think that he will do that like Hyundai and Citroen did it already.

I agree that it will take a LOT (top 3) to get them "cheap/free" seat at MSport for rest of the year.
On the other hand they need to show themselves in WRC, especially Tidemand and hope it helps with sponsors or other teams. However, they really do need plan B that keeps them "somewhere around" driving R5 or getting another outing soon. Worst thing that can happen is what Atkinson did in 2009, use lots of money to get one ride (Ireland) and then disappear.

[Barreis]

yeah, c4. i remember that he destroyed some post but still managed to finish 5th, i think. but competition was poor those days with only two manus. but still... remember that mcshae did good with proton s2000 at begininig of the rally

[deephouse]

Worst thing that can happen is what Atkinson did in 2009, use lots of money to get one ride (Ireland) and then disappear.

I'm confused how did he dissapear when he was 3 years later in Monster & Qatar teams and driving Mini the same year, then again Citroen and last in the Hyundai car.

[the sniper]

I'm confused how did he dissapear when he was 3 years later in Monster & Qatar teams and driving Mini the same year, then again Citroen and last in the Hyundai car.

Three years out of WRC, then a handful of sporadic outings in which he was by then well off the pace... I think his point stands.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49656251_2479660925396653_4496729311784468480_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=4b3aae1ac2ee8746d103c387b43a657c&oe=5CD2638E

[EstWRC]

Their livery https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1083287356654915585?s=21

[AnttiL]

Not a lot of external sponsor decals outside the M-Sport wholeness.

[GigiGalliNo1]

https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49656251_2479660925396653_4496729311784468480_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=4b3aae1ac2ee8746d103c387b43a657c&oe=5CD2638E

I know Bertelli bought his WRC2017 Fiesta but this looks like his without the Fnckmatie stickers! :D

[AnttiL]

I know Bertelli bought his WRC2017 Fiesta

Did he? https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/69-ford-fiesta-wrc/?car=1660

[BobJones]

Their livery https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1083287356654915585?s=21

This looks great to me, really strong livery design. Super.

Except... where are the sponsors? Damn, what a shame!

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10582102

A Teemu Suninen interview in Finnish. The interesting part is that he tells how his test days are now doubled for 2019 and he gets to develop the car more to his likings. Last year he had 8 test days in total and always the car arrived set up in advance and he just had to adapt to that.

[AL14]

Their livery https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1083287356654915585?s=21

I don't like it too much. It's not bad but it has not personality.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The livery is pretty much as expected (no sponsor). And I have to agree, apart from the nice colour, it is lacking something.

[T16]

I reckon it would look better if it was all the darker of the two blues, plus the sponsor logos. I'm just not into this over-use of more than one main colour.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Todays news... :(

"Ford Europe to slash thousands of jobs in turnaround plan..."

[tommeke_B]

Nice livery! I'm wondering why they wanted to reveal their livery before the Autosport show, unlike the others. Autosport has been sponsoring them a couple of times in Wales Rally GB in the past...

[Andre Oliveira]

The agreement was reveal in Autosport Show, not all in same time. Personnel i prefer one by one. All together lost the impact and the minutes detail search.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Todays news... :(

"Ford Europe to slash thousands of jobs in turnaround plan..."

Colin Clark: This is full of marketing and communications jargon, but if I’ve worked it out correctly it perhaps tells us why Ford of Europe were unable to make the investments required to keep Ogier at M-Sport...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ford-europe-turnaround/ford-europe-to-slash-thousands-of-jobs-in-turnaround-plan-idUSKCN1P411J

[T16]

There was this piece too, yesterday, which gives a bit more clarity on what their thinking is regarding future motorsport activities... Maybe this gives more of an indication as to why they aren't fully committed to the WRC right now...

https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/140940/fe-an-option-for-ford-as-it-considers-its-future

[GigiGalliNo1]

Did he? https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/69-ford-fiesta-wrc/?car=1660

My bad... must have returned it/sold? I spoke with his manager and he said he bought the car... ah well.

So Teemu was driving a 2017 car in 2018!

[Tarmop]

That doesn`t mean, it was in 17 spec (well, clearly it didn`t have the aero that Ogier had).

[Mirek]

My bad... must have returned it/sold? I spoke with his manager and he said he bought the car... ah well.

So Teemu was driving a 2017 car in 2018!

Gosh, You're long enough in the sport to know that the date when the bodyshell was first used has very little to do with the stuff actually packed in it. FYI it was absolutely normal for Loeb to drive 3-4 years old Xsara WRC bodyshells and win everything.

[AnttiL]

My bad... must have returned it/sold? I spoke with his manager and he said he bought the car... ah well.

No, I think he only owned the old spec Fiesta RS WRC, and sold it https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/13-ford-fiesta-rs-wrc/?car=1316

[Andre Oliveira]

I think that was one Bertelli livered car in Monza. Maybe he bought some other chassis.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We're pleased to confirm that we will be running a two-car team in the all-new WRC 2 Pro class this year, with a pair of M-Sport Ford EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta R5s for Gus Greensmith and Lukasz Pieniazek.

➡️ Read more here: https://t.co/CbimnUPBMl

#WRC #FordPerformance https://t.co/V0MAL8WPv2

[Andre Oliveira]

https://msportmedia.dphoto.com/album/caad0j/photo/58457442
https://msportmedia.dphoto.com/album/caad0j/photo/58457438
https://msportmedia.dphoto.com/album/caad0j/photo/58457432

[Tarmop]

I think that was one Bertelli livered car in Monza. Maybe he bought some other chassis.
It`s probably just how it comes, without the livery, it is metal with no paint, carbon in black. Tänak`s car (Östberg`s old) used by Gross looked the same.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/449438/?entry=1988262

I can`t find any other new Fiesta WRC, apart from Östberg/Tänak`s, sold to a privateer.

[deephouse]

What about that F1 driver, Serderidis, Kremer, Solberg, Bouffier, Kajetanowicz, many fiestas at the same time in Monza Rally show...

[Tarmop]

So? They don`t use them at once, for example 4 different Fiestas in Monza according to ewrc.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/69-ford-fiesta-wrc-17/?s=2018#stats

[Rally Power]

There was this piece too, yesterday, which gives a bit more clarity on what their thinking is regarding future motorsport activities... Maybe this gives more of an indication as to why they aren't fully committed to the WRC right now...
https://www.autosport.com/fe/news/140940/fe-an-option-for-ford-as-it-considers-its-future

It’d be a shame seeing Ford going to that travesty racing series called FE. If they don’t want to make a proper investment in the WRC, I hope they choose to continue at the IMSA or in the WEC. Btw, nice liveries on their GTs for Daytona (they would be great on the Fiesta):

https://performance.ford.com/content/fordracing/home/series/ford-gt/news/articles/imsa/2018/12/rolex24livery/_jcr_content/fr-contentItem/image.img.jpg/1547136031997.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

It looks:

Tidemand 8 rallies
Greensmith 3 rallies
Bertelli 2 rallies

[Myrvold]

It looks:

Bertelli 2 rallies

Really? Thought he were done after 2017!

[er88]

It's a real shame if Bertelli is taking the 3rd car. Hopefully it'll be a 4th, if someone else has done well or can bring more money to the team to have further outings

[deephouse]

It’d be a shame seeing Ford going to that travesty racing series called FE. If they don’t want to make a proper investment in the WRC, I hope they choose to continue at the IMSA or in the WEC. Btw, nice liveries on their GTs for Daytona (they would be great on the Fiesta):

https://performance.ford.com/content/fordracing/home/series/ford-gt/news/articles/imsa/2018/12/rolex24livery/_jcr_content/fr-contentItem/image.img.jpg/1547136031997.jpg

But on their website they brag about WRC programme. Donating a 10.000 worth a car to the private team is not called manufacturer entry.

[tomhlord]

It looks:

Tidemand 8 rallies
Greensmith 3 rallies
Bertelli 2 rallies

I'm glad that M-Sport has found drivers with some form of budget to help keep the team in the sport and make sure there are three Fiestas on each rally.

[seb_sh]

I'm glad that M-Sport has found drivers with some form of budget to help keep the team in the sport and make sure there are three Fiestas on each rally.

Indeed, a month ago a full participation even with 2 cars was in doubt. To have 3 on every rally, even if on a couple it's Bertelli would be great!

[Tarmop]

But on their website they brag about WRC programme. Donating a 10.000 worth a car to the private team is not called manufacturer entry.

Making that car wasn`t 10k and allowing it to be used is also more expensive...add knowhow and...

[spiderem]

At the end M-Sport manages to get 3 cars almost for the full season, whilst citroen can't... Malcom deserves to be on the hall of fame of rallying if not already there.

[Tarmop]

Who knows what Citroen can or can`t, probably will have 3 cars in Sweden...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm still hoping to see Craig Breen getting some drives and now it can really only be at Citroen. Plus it will make sense in a car he knows well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

At the end M-Sport manages to get 3 cars almost for the full season, whilst citroen can't... Malcom deserves to be on the hall of fame of rallying if not already there.

+100

And without a big title sponsor. Remarkable.

[irish_tiger]

I'm still hoping to see Craig Breen getting some drives and now it can really only be at Citroen. Plus it will make sense in a car he knows well.

There are rumors of doing the rest of the European rounds in a Malcom car with Nagle

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn Evans still has a Red Bul cap at the 2019 reveal so is keeping some sponsorship.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No new 3rd driver info at the reveal. Tidemand with two rallies, Greensmith one.

[Barreis]

so, no wins for M-Sport Ford this season

[EstWRC]

how do you know this?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

so, no wins for M-Sport Ford this season

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140995/msport-no-reason-not-to-be-at-same-level-as-18

[Barreis]

we will see at the end of the season

[AndyRAC]

Elfyn Evans still has a Red Bull cap at the 2019 reveal so is keeping some sponsorship.

He is a Red Bull UK athlete; and they've also recently signed Catie Munnings.

[RAS007]

so, no wins for M-Sport Ford this season

I hope you're wrong, but hard to see where any victories will come from based on current line up.

[doubled1978]

I hope you're wrong, but hard to see where any victories will come from based on current line up.

I agree it will be a long shot for them to win a rally, its not impossible as a good position on day 1 of a gravel rally might be enough if others have problems...
I actually wondered if they might try a curve ball and run on Pirelli tyres, so if there was an event or three that they were an advantage they could try and take advantage of them. They are not really in it for the manufactures this season so it might have been a good way to give themselves a good chance of a win or two.

[mknight]

I actually wondered if they might try a curve ball and run on Pirelli tyres, so if there was an event or three that they were an advantage they could try and take advantage of them. They are not really in it for the manufactures this season so it might have been a good way to give themselves a good chance of a win or two.

I think it's unlikely. The drivers that try to break trough go there and pay to show that they are good relative to established drivers.

If they get good result on different tires everyone says "meh the tires must be helping them a lot", if they get bad result it's more likely " maybe It's because og the tires". Evans drop from 2017 to 2018 can be used as an example too.

[Barreis]

Evans had a full season in 2018 and didn't win, so it will be hard in 2019

[T16]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140995/msport-no-reason-not-to-be-at-same-level-as-18

Eddie, you don't believe that do you? (at the same level without Ogier)

[RAS007]

Eddie, you don't believe that do you? (at the same level without Ogier)

I don't think anyone really believes that, including Millener (and Wilson), but what else is he going to say? He's factually correct about the car, but there's no way to cover up the loss of one of the most successful drivers in the sport.

[Duvel]

I hope Malcom wil "help" Pontus to get more drives this year. I feel it is there chanse for best results in some rally's.
I know he has not proven anything yet in a wrc car, but he has the talent, and knows most of the rally's.

[deephouse]

Evans had a full season in 2018 and didn't win, so it will be hard in 2019

Most of the time he was driving slow just for frenchie. And almost lost a seat because of his loyalty to the team.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eddie, you don't believe that do you? (at the same level without Ogier)

Millener was talking about the team operating at the same level (not the drivers) and yes, they can.

As for rally wins, Ogier didnt actually win that many rallies at M-Sport.

[T16]

Millener was talking about the team operating at the same level (not the drivers) and yes, they can.

As for rally wins, Ogier didnt actually win that many rallies at M-Sport.

I’m not so sure....

Millener: "In reality there is nothing that we can't do again that we've done the last two years."

Is he suggesting they can win one or both championships again?

Why didn’t they just say they would like to get a few wins and acknowledge that this would be a massive success, given the drivers they have and the competition they are facing?

It seems ridiculous to set the bar so high.

[tommeke_B]

What do you think he has to say then? "We should be happy with a finish in top 5, podium would be be great..." I think he'd get a phone-call from some people at Ford... It's his job to keep everyone motivated to do their absolute best and aim high, you cannot give up before the season even started. ;)

[deephouse]

They could sign a driver who could actually win a event, be consistent and most importantly be in top 5 on almost every rally.

[T16]

What do you think he has to say then? "We should be happy with a finish in top 5, podium would be be great..." I think he'd get a phone-call from some people at Ford... It's his job to keep everyone motivated to do their absolute best and aim high, you cannot give up before the season even started. ;)

I’ve already said what I think he should say (acknowledge that a few wins will be a great result for them)...

Raising the bar to suggest they can win championships again will demotivate people, not at the end of the season when they haven’t achieved it, but at the beginning, because there won’t be a single person in the team who thinks there’s even the slightest chance they may.

Even if they win two rallies this year, it will be a massive achievement for them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Clearly they dont have Ogier so not having his level (of driving) is a given. Any team would be worse off.

So then I took Millener's words as meaning the professionalism that Ogier brought and the good car that he demanded should still be there.

[T16]

Clearly they dont have Ogier so not having his level (of driving) is a given. Any team would be worse off.

So then I took Millener's words as meaning the professionalism that Ogier brought and the good car that he demanded should still be there.

Really hope they can do something. I’m not sure how much development they will have the budget for, so the car may stand still compared to the others.

Still also hoping that Evans is a different driver now he’s not in safe mode, with strict orders, as he was most of last year, but who knows... he definitely looked quick in Wales last year.

[AL14]

Really hope they can do something. I’m not sure how much development they will have the budget for, so the car may stand still compared to the others.

Still also hoping that Evans is a different driver now he’s not in safe mode, with strict orders, as he was most of last year, but who knows... he definitely looked quick in Wales last year.

I don't think we can expect much more from Evans. He is a serious wrc level driver but he is not fast enough to stay on top of it and I don't see big rooms for improvements.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rich Millener interview:
https://rallysportmag.com/feature-richard-millener-is-the-new-team-principal-at-m-sport/

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/pontustidemand/status/1086337973350731776

Tidemand’s livery

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/pontustidemand/status/1086337973350731776

Tidemand’s livery

nice photographer,amazing photos to show a livery.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re upgrades for the 2019 Fiesta:

Revisions to the rear bumper and louvres have been introduced to improve performance and durability on the aerodynamics, while new dampers and electronics increase usability. The lamp pods have evolved to incorporate adaptive lighting, and an engine upgrade delivers an appreciable increase in performance.

Team Principal, Richard Millener: “There’s no reason why we shouldn’t be competitive this year. Of course we need to be realistic and know how strong the competition will be, but we’ve proven ourselves more than capable and have no intention of slowing down.

“The team have been focused on development and we’re bringing a number of upgrades to Monte-Carlo with more to come over the next six months."

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50233388_2493413077354771_8738617958831489024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeFkVdNZxaIp-bODpBA_a8PhqjMkVrmBSIMNv4iw4XMx2AHDGSTzI80Nt-1XDHX37V3mrsLWY3NYCL98O_4HA02gD_tCeO9dhvkdusR6RQEp pg&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=1d700e12803fdb677cf651f03cc2d07d&oe=5CCB5441

[steve.mandzij]

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50233388_2493413077354771_8738617958831489024_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeFkVdNZxaIp-bODpBA_a8PhqjMkVrmBSIMNv4iw4XMx2AHDGSTzI80Nt-1XDHX37V3mrsLWY3NYCL98O_4HA02gD_tCeO9dhvkdusR6RQEp pg&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=1d700e12803fdb677cf651f03cc2d07d&oe=5CCB5441???

[Rally Hokkaido]

???

Some attempted humour, I suppose. 97-year old British Prince Philip had a car accident the other day. I'm don't know when the pic of him in the rally car was taken. The caption says at Norfolk stages.

[Franky]

Some attempted humour, I suppose. 97-year old British Prince Philip had a car accident the other day. I'm don't know when the pic of him in the rally car was taken. The caption says at Norfolk stages.

It's edited. Everything

[Andre Oliveira]

Focus on hashtag...

[SubaruNorway]

Some attempted humour, I suppose. 97-year old British Prince Philip had a car accident the other day. I'm don't know when the pic of him in the rally car was taken. The caption says at Norfolk stages.

It's a photoshop of Travis Pastrana...

[Barreis]

stories for good night from Wilsons family
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/141112

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I understand R5 is now a tough market and they want the new Fiesta to be the best, but this delay in bringing it out is not good at all.

By the time its ready there wont be that many buyers left that have waited about 18 months more just to buy a Ford.

The Polo may be the new benchmark, but can M-Sport build something even better, and at a good price, with less resources than VW have ? Pretty doubtful.

The C3 R5 will also catch more sales with Østberg boosting its results. And you can be sure Skoda and Hyundai wont be standing still with their cars...

[Tarmop]

In the end they aren`t cars bought from dealerships, waintinglists are there, price etc...

[Mirek]

I understand R5 is now a tough market and they want the new Fiesta to be the best, but this delay in bringing it out is not good at all.

By the time its ready there wont be that many buyers left that have waited about 18 months more just to buy a Ford.

The Polo may be the new benchmark, but can M-Sport build something even better, and at a good price, with less resources than VW have ? Pretty doubtful.

The C3 R5 will also catch more sales with Østberg boosting its results. And you can be sure Skoda and Hyundai wont be standing still with their cars...

Look at it from the other side - M-Sport is late with the new R5 but it won two WRC titles! For sure the R5 market loss hurts but I'm quite sure that Malcolm Wilson and the rest of M-Sport guys would again go for the WRC title as a priority if they were about to decide again.

[ToughMac]

With so few numbers of the polo being produced maybe Wilson is playing a clever gameplan. As for customers and waiting lists teams will generally go for whats best unless they are brand affiliated. Also bear in mind the fabia evo 2 has also been postponed and not due to be released till mid summer. The Hyundai is still a very basic car and even with the jokers that are planned for this year I feel it will still lag behind the competition.

[Mirek]

Except that it's not few at all. 40 cars/year is pretty high number. Škoda produces twice the amount but among the rest it's currently second highest production rate I believe.

[dodge33cymru]

stories for good night from Wilsons family
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/141112

Good interview, thanks for the link. After reading, I'm even more surprised they've not picked a top driver for the WRC2 Pro campaign to advertise the new car.

[ToughMac]

40 does sound like a good number but demand still out weighs production by a big margin. Just for the record, how many new cars did M-Sport and Skoda sell last year?

[dodge33cymru]

40 does sound like a good number but demand still out weighs production by a big margin. Just for the record, how many new cars did M-Sport and Skoda sell last year?

Going by EWRC chassis numbers, about 15-20 Fiestas: https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/47-ford-fiesta-r5/?car=3173 - a lot of money in the upgrades and rebuilds of the first 200+ chassis though. I think that's more valuable business than the actual initial sales.

[Mirek]

40 does sound like a good number but demand still out weighs production by a big margin. Just for the record, how many new cars did M-Sport and Skoda sell last year?

Not all cars are sold to the customers but the production capacity of Škoda is 80 cars a year and it has been steadily kept so for a couple of years. Based on their comments there are no plans to enlarge the production rate in the future.

I would be carefull to comment the demand. Yes, there is huge demand for Polo but not that much for the other cars. Most of those you can get pretty quickly after the order (including Fabia).

[ToughMac]

That's what I was kind of figuring. M-Sport are a preparations/sales business so it is in their best interest to sell as many cars as possible while also rebuilding older stock. It doesn't seem like anyone else works with M-Sport built cars so its quids in there. Skoda follow pretty much the same format just not as aggressively. VW however don't need to make money from selling Polo R'5 so are not motivated to churn out large numbers. In my opinion it is more of a self sustaining brand awareness exercise and it looks to be doing the trick.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good interview, thanks for the link. After reading, I'm even more surprised they've not picked a top driver for the WRC2 Pro campaign to advertise the new car.

Maybe Greensmith could do some more WRC drives in the second half of 2019 and M-Sport could then bring in a name driver for the new Fiesta R5 in WRC2 Pro. Depends on how he's doing and his funding.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Look at it from the other side - M-Sport is late with the new R5 but it won two WRC titles! For sure the R5 market loss hurts but I'm quite sure that Malcolm Wilson and the rest of M-Sport guys would again go for the WRC title as a priority if they were about to decide again.

Of course.

I was concerned the business will pay a big price in the long-run for taking their eyes off their R5 , which is their main business. But I think Malcolm knows what he's doing.

[mArvAlcao17]

For some reason, i wish Ford of Europe would create their version of Ford Performance in Europe.
I mean, kinda like what Toyota have (TRD in American and TMG in Europe) or Honda (Honda Racing and HPD).

My thought is, as the Fiesta road cars are no longer sold in American market, the FP guys in Michigan doesn't see much value to give more funding to the European-based racing sub-division, preferred to give that to the teams which run, for example, Mustang as it's avaliable globally.

[Tarmop]

Ford is laying of thousands of workers, stopping production of some models and continuing with some only in one factory. We should be glad they are even a bit present.

[AndyRAC]

Of course.

I was concerned the business will pay a big price in the long-run for taking their eyes off their R5 , which is their main business. But I think Malcolm knows what he's doing.

I'm sure the Bentley GT3 is a money maker....

[Zeakiwi]

Did the ford cars meet the new euro emission regulations introduced last year?

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/01/ford-to-close-transmission-plant-cut-thousands-of-jobs-in-europe-in-2019.html (Euro layoffs)

Ford also closing Focus line in Argentina.

Ford will have to set up a plant with only robots somewhere.

[Andre Oliveira]

Fiesta R2T National with 155hp and R1 with 140hp to come.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/artikel/d/2019/01/22/m-sport-fiesta-r2-national-und-fiesta-r1/&xid=25657,15700023,15700124,15700126,15700186,1570 0190,15700201,15700248&usg=ALkJrhiZVpChajxqgV2xpERAKUwzyM0ZYQ

[Got Mail]

There seems to be a pretty big assumption being made that manufacturing and selling R5 cars is a profitable business.

I'm not sure the original sale will generate much profit given the price cap.

Parts sales will be a different matter.

[N.O.T]

Parts sales will be a different matter.

why ? they pay parts with babanas and they only use money on the car itself ?

its like those nesspresso machines and the retards that buy them they pay for the machine but then they milk them with those capsules...

[Mirek]

There seems to be a pretty big assumption being made that manufacturing and selling R5 cars is a profitable business.

I'm not sure the original sale will generate much profit given the price cap.

Parts sales will be a different matter.

Yes, I don't think they do any reasonable profit (if any) of the car sale alone. What makes the profit is the spare parts and the after sale services. It is indeed a profitable business. At least for some.

[RS]

Jouhki is paying for Suninen right?

[ToughMac]

This might sound like a crazy question but does anyone know the specs of the upcoming Fiesta R5? Apart from the R5 regs is it going to be a three cylinder or a four cylinder? As far as I know the top spec Fiesta ST is a 1.5 three cylinder engine. If this is what M-Sport are planning on using it's pretty understandable why they are delaying the launch for so long.

[Tarmop]

Most probably they won`t use its engine and will make 1.6l out of something with bigger capacity...seems to be the most reliable solution as demonstrated by VAG and M-Sport already.

[ToughMac]

Who will dictate it though in this case, Ford or M-Sport? The convenient option is to go with the four cylinder engine in that it is proven but with the emphasis on lower emissions etc it might be Ford's preference to push this engine configuration.

[Tarmop]

Umm, lol, yes, for sure there are concernes over emissions from a car consuming 50-70l/100 km SS racing fuel and a set of tires that lasts around 100km. Not to mention how it all changes with different mappings etc. If Ford wants to sell it as ecofriendly, they do what they do now, add a "Powered by Ecoboost" sticker. You never ever make a R5 car that complies with latest emissions regulations and frankly it is the last thing in the list of arguments, how someone chooses a (R5) rallycar, whats point all in all is to be a customer car. It has to be fast and reliable, good/cheap to maintain for the customer and its builder.

Or put it this way: You have a 1.8l R4 std. engine, you make it 1.6l, around 210 kW and 400 nm or you have a 1.5 R3, you increase its capacity to make it 1.6, around 210 kW and 400 nm. Which option has a bigger lifespan, is cheaper and more reliable to build and maintain? The answer is quite obvious.

[the sniper]

I'm sure it's been said by people in the know here that M-Sport definitely aren't using the 1.5 as a base for the new R5 engine, a decision that makes perfect sense from an engineering point of view. Given that a hardcore M-Sport superfan here didn't know the origin of the current R5 engine, with it not being a proper 'Ecoboost', I can't see why Ford would be that fussed about the new R5 engine not being based on the 1.5 out of the production ST. The vast majority of the public are none the wiser either way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm sure it's been said by people in the know here that M-Sport definitely aren't using the 1.5 as a base for the new R5 engine, a decision that makes perfect sense from an engineering point of view. Given that a hardcore M-Sport superfan here didn't know the origin of the current R5 engine, with it not being a proper 'Ecoboost', I can't see why Ford would be that fussed about the new R5 engine not being based on the 1.5 out of the production ST. The vast majority of the public are none the wiser either way.

As I guess its me you were referring to. Yes, I'm an M-Sport fan, but I dont work there and dont have inside knowledge other than what a manager told us fans at WRGB.

Like said manager, every, and I mean every, website and magazine refers to the Fiesta R5 as being based on the Fiesta ST and having an Ecoboost 1.6T-based engine. It's a fact that M-Sport start with a factory-built car as its basis for the R5. There is no mention anywhere of which another engine or block that they are using.

Racetech Magazine quotes M-Sport’s head of engine development, Nigel Arnfield on the R5 Evo: "The engine is based on the 1.6-litre turbocharged inline four found in the Ford Fiesta ST road car. As with most modern production designs it uses direct injection (DI), which means it’s very sensitive to the shape of the piston crown and the roof of the combustion chamber. We knew there was a lot of potential to develop the piston further."

http://chris-pickering.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/p50_RCETEH185FIESTAlowres.pdf

[AnttiL]

Jouhki is paying for Suninen right?

This question is over week old but I still want to answer: M-Sport is already paying Suninen (and Jouhki probably gets his share in return for the previous season's investments)

[Barreis]

this question is over week old but i still want to answer: M-sport is already paying suninen (and jouhki probably gets his share in return for the previous season's investments)

lol

[the sniper]

As I guess its me you were referring to. Yes, I'm an M-Sport fan, but I dont work there and dont have inside knowledge other than what a manager told us fans at WRGB.

Not intended as an insult sorry, just mean that if those with a deep interest/knowledge can't be sure of the exact details, there's little reason in compromising themselves for a marketing led solution that is irrelevant to the vast majority of people.

[AnttiL]

lol

https://rallysportmag.com/feature-richard-millener-is-the-new-team-principal-at-m-sport/


Is M-Sport funding the WRC2 Pro drivers?

“We’re not funding anybody this year apart from Elfyn and Teemu, they’re the only two people we are supporting.

[Barreis]

that's only public speech

[adr17]

As I guess its me you were referring to. Yes, I'm an M-Sport fan, but I dont work there and dont have inside knowledge other than what a manager told us fans at WRGB.

Like said manager, every, and I mean every, website and magazine refers to the Fiesta R5 as being based on the Fiesta ST and having an Ecoboost 1.6T-based engine. It's a fact that M-Sport start with a factory-built car as its basis for the R5. There is no mention anywhere of which another engine or block that they are using.

Racetech Magazine quotes M-Sport’s head of engine development, Nigel Arnfield on the R5 Evo: "The engine is based on the 1.6-litre turbocharged inline four found in the Ford Fiesta ST road car. As with most modern production designs it uses direct injection (DI), which means it’s very sensitive to the shape of the piston crown and the roof of the combustion chamber. We knew there was a lot of potential to develop the piston further."

http://chris-pickering.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/p50_RCETEH185FIESTAlowres.pdf


The original fiesta r5 was a 2.0 turbo production engine , de stroked to 1.6 so effectively the cylinder head is a slightly modified standard ford 2.0 turbo direct injection , think originally it was out of a volvo model

i believe the new r5 will be something similiar

[Allez Andruet]

that's only public speech

And why in the world would they feel the need to lie about such thing?

[dimviii]

And why in the world would they feel the need to lie about such thing?


just for reference,they said ''supporting''

[Allez Andruet]

just for reference,they said ''supporting''

Yes, in a sentence which first part read "we’re not funding anybody this year apart from Elfyn and Teemu".

[AnttiL]

I hate to use arguments like this on forums but I’ve heard Suninen being paid from an ”inside source” as well.

[dimviii]

Yes, in a sentence which first part read "we’re not funding anybody this year apart from Elfyn and Teemu".

funding can be the costs running at wrc,doesnt mean salary.

[dimviii]

I hate to use arguments like this on forums but I’ve heard Suninen being paid from an ”inside source” as well.

i dont have any sources,i just wrote what i read at their interview.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The original fiesta r5 was a 2.0 turbo production engine , de stroked to 1.6 so effectively the cylinder head is a slightly modified standard ford 2.0 turbo direct injection , think originally it was out of a volvo model

i believe the new r5 will be something similiar

Thanks. Can you get any confirmation of this from a good source ?

BTW, why do M-Sport use a new Fiesta ST as the base for their rally car when it is going to be totally stripped and just the shell used ? Does it have to be registered as a Fiesta ST ?

[Tarmop]

I believe you already argued about it in this thread, around October and got a credible answer from a person supervising building a Fiesta R5 with international homologation somewhere here. If you don`t remember:

I'm currently supervising build of R5 Fiesta, chassis of which was made from used road car with some 60k km on the clock. All paperwork from M-Sport and FIA is done and is fully correct, so I know what I'm writing. It can be ST or Ecoboost model. It needs to be based on normal road car as needs to have proper VIN number. And engine is not based on ST road car, actually engine for current Fiesta is based on some 1,8 engine from Mondeo I think. It just needs to be engine from the group. Engine for new Fiesta will be based on 2,0l from US market.

Says also, what`s going to be used in the new car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I believe you already argued about it in this thread, around October and got a credible answer from a person supervising building a Fiesta R5 with international homologation somewhere here. If you don`t remember:


Says also, what`s going to be used in the new car.

Yes, I remember it well and dont doubt it.

I just wondered where the info can be found 'officially' since I cant find anything but ST Ecoboost references for the R5.on every website...

[T16]

Yes, I remember it well and dont doubt it.

I just wondered where the info can be found 'officially' since I cant find anything but ST Ecoboost references for the R5.on every website...

If you can't take the word of a chap who is overseeing the build of one and who has the official documentation from M-Sport, have you thought about contacting M-Sport direct and asking them? This would clear it up once and for all and get it off your mind.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@MSportLtd

Our hard work is paying dividends and the Fiesta WRC showed winning pace @RallySweden with five fastest stage times. We know the speed is there, and we're looking forward to seeing what's possible @RallyMexico!

➡️ Read more here: https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-post/2019/02/17/M-SPORT-FORD-SHOW-SPEED-IN-SWEDEN …

[cali]

Actually M-Sport cars and drivers showed some good speed and I'm happy about it. Pity that the driver line-up is still too error prone. But hopefully they will improve. Overall a nice rally for them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

One day he was going to lead the World Rally Championship...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DznudPeWkAA8w9I.jpg:large

[BigWorm]

After the horror show that was Monte they really bounced back, points scored were not representative of their performance. At least they'll have nice road positions in Mexico.

[Barreis]

this young fellow (Tanak) could be a champ this year

[deephouse]

He could be a champ last year if he didn't broke that radiator on many occasions. And a year before if he found a pace a little earlier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport has now proved to itself and its WRC rivals that it's still a team to be feared post-Ogier, says its boss:

https://t.co/78nuYLTEEw

[mknight]

In Sweden they were.

The only doubt I have is that the competitiveness seemed to be caused by upgrades that were introduced "for Ogier", but for various reasons delayed last year (like the engine). So question is if further upgrades will keep on coming.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sounds like a decent amount of car development is still happening...

"Before the season, M-Sport managing director Malcolm Wilson insisted there would be no let-up in the effort or investment in performance from the team despite Ogier leaving for Citroen.

Suninen said the Ford Fiesta's Swedish pace was testament to that policy.

"From last year, the car is fully different," said Suninen.

"The team worked so hard. We have much more grip generally on the car and this is coming from the [extra] downforce we got from the aero work.

"This is where the Ford help is really showing. It's great that we keep pushing forward with the car and I really think we can fight this year."

[Tarmop]

Wilson`s idea was to offer top package to make it appealing for top drivers in 2020. They have to keep up.

[mknight]

Wilson`s idea was to offer top package to make it appealing for top drivers in 2020. They have to keep up.

That requires that Msport/Ford or some sponsors has the money to pay those top drivers. Even without the top 3 who I believe are under contract (Ogier and Neuville are, not sure about Tänak, but cant see him leaving Toyota) the "2nd best" are not likely to want to drive for free or pay.

[er88]

That requires that Msport/Ford or some sponsors has the money to pay those top drivers. Even without the top 3 who I believe are under contract (Ogier and Neuville are, not sure about Tänak, but cant see him leaving Toyota) the "2nd best" are not likely to want to drive for free or pay.I think one of Mikkelsen or Latvala/Meeke will be at Msport next year. Depends what Toyota do with Kalle...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Also Abu Dhabi is set to return in 2020, but with which team?

[Allez Andruet]

Depends what Toyota do with Kalle...

Sign him - which I wouldn't be surprised one bit if it had already been done. Latvala to M-Sport also sounds like a safe bet. I'm sure Jouhki can deliver him that seat.

[mknight]

Abu Dhabi would surely be able to provide funding but I doubt they will go to MSport without any of Ogier/Tanak/Neuville there.

Latvala could probably get some funding but none of the others are likely to do that (Meeke and Mikkelsen were mentioned, I'd maybe include Paddon, Breen and Østberg since all are drivers that have relatively guaranteed podium speed on multiple rallies).

Rovanpera will likely drive some rallies at Toyota next year (though it could also be at MSport) but so far this year he is far from stable top contender, much less in WRC. Monte - out in first stage (if Suninen wasn't there he'd end in the ditch instead, Sweden - out in 3rd stage. So I doubt he will do full WRC season already next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Craig Breen implied Abu Dhabi will return in 2020 and thanked them (SKAQ) for their support in getting him into a WRCar. Maybe he hopes for a later 2019 chance in a 3rd C3 funded by them ...

[denkimi]

I think one of Mikkelsen or Latvala/Meeke will be at Msport next year. Depends what Toyota do with Kalle...

Toyota will do nothing with kalle besides maybe a 4th car sometimes if he starts performing well the rest of the year.

They want to win championships, so they need three good proven drivers, not youngsters.

[the sniper]

Given the rumours about Toyota working on an R5 car, a mixed WRC/WRC2(Pro, if it survives) campaign in 2020 would work nicely for Kalle...

And less significantly, Katsuta could be accommodated as a Toyota driver too.

[dupanton]

We are 2 rounds into 2019 and you are already speculating about 2020...

[AnttiL]

Given the rumours about Toyota working on an R5 car, a mixed WRC/WRC2(Pro, if it survives) campaign in 2020 would work nicely for Kalle...

And less significantly, Katsuta could be accommodated as a Toyota driver too.

If they would have an R5 car ready for 2020, we would know already.

[AnttiL]

Craig Breen implied Abu Dhabi will return in 2020 and thanked them (SKAQ) for their support in getting him into a WRCar. Maybe he hopes for a later 2019 chance in a 3rd C3 funded by them ...

Didn't you just contradict yourself? They are returning in 2020 so how would they be involved in Breen's program already in 2019?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I just meant possible support for Breen, not the whole team.

[AnttiL]

I just meant possible support for Breen, not the whole team.

So a year off from supporting motorsport means they can still support Breen?

[Essaj]

So a year off from supporting motorsport means they can still support Breen?

"Maybe he hopes for a later 2019 chance in a 3rd C3 funded by them" Which part of "maybe" is so hard to understand?

[AnttiL]

Maybe Unicorn WRT will give him a seat for 2019.

[Essaj]

Maybe Unicorn WRT will give him a seat for 2019.

And since when speculating hasn't been allowed here?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Last week Breen said he was still confident of a WRC drive later this year.

Where else is more likely than in a Citroen and why did he thank the Sheikh ? And helping Breen is not sponsoring the whole team...

[AnttiL]

Last week Breen said he was still confident of a WRC drive later this year.

Where else is more likely than in a Citroen and why did he thank the Sheikh ? And helping Breen is not sponsoring the whole team...

If you are referring to Absolute Rally, it's not like he mentioned Abu Dhabi without asking. Of course he has to be polite because there's very little bridges to be burned, although inside he's probably mad at them for taking away the financial support that cost him the WRC seat for this year.

I don't see how supporting Breen would revert Abu Dhabi's decision not to support WRC this year, since they announced returning in 2020. https://twitter.com/F_Gustavsson/status/1068803632538234881 And it may not be with Citroen since they basically waved goodbye to them. https://twitter.com/khalidbinfaisal/status/1076199911400574977

At this point I would see Breen doing at most some rounds in an M-Sport Fiesta and/or maybe a few WRC2 outings.

[DocMS]

Craig breen doing Italian championship. This will get him drive in sardegna at least https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/dc7df42781677bc650bed037d453a1e7.jpg

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