Kill Taliban fighters? Piss on their corpses!

[gloomyDAY]

Pentagon condemns Marines (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/pentagon-condemns-alleged-marine-misconduct-graphic-video-170756596.html)

What a bunch of small-penis morons. I really don't have any sympathy for the Taliban. My problem is with these Marines who filmed something so stupid to begin with and were even stupider to actually film it.

[Roamy]

War is not a pretty site - move on

[Robinho]

way to win hearts and minds, that little PR cock up will set back the effort by about 10 years, there will ne hundreds and thopusands of people who were on the margins who will now be queing up to take a shot at the marines or anyone else who associates with them.

[driveace]

Unfortunatly this got "out" ,but war is not nice,at least the Americans,and other forces fighting with them ,have uniforms,and can be identified,what uniform have the Taliban? And how do we recognise them ?.I would say it's foolish to film this and release it,it's wrong,but these guys are losing friends daily,and tensions are high !

[gloomyDAY]

War is not a pretty site - move onWhat a liberal. Always running away from problems instead of confronting the issue at hand and fixing it!

[BDunnell]

Unfortunatly this got "out" ,but war is not nice,at least the Americans,and other forces fighting with them ,have uniforms,and can be identified,what uniform have the Taliban? And how do we recognise them ?.I would say it's foolish to film this and release it,it's wrong,but these guys are losing friends daily,and tensions are high !

This incident, and others like it, has nothing to do with this. Yes, war is 'not nice', but this is no excuse for such revolting behaviour. It is a symptom of yobbishness. Look at the way in which pilots from opposing sides in the First and Second World Wars had respect for their opponents. Such an attitude would not go amiss.

[Mark]

But isn't it the way they trains soldiers, that the enemy isn't human and so deserves to be killed. The removal of that sense of humanity leads to all sorts of consequences.

[Knock-on]

Unfortunately this got "out" ,but war is not nice,at least the Americans,and other forces fighting with them ,have uniforms,and can be identified,what uniform have the Taliban? And how do we recognise them ?.I would say it's foolish to film this and release it,it's wrong,but these guys are losing friends daily,and tensions are high !

I didn't realise that wearing a uniform was some sort of moral indicator. My respect for the KKK has just increased tenfold :(

There are disgusting acts committed by both sides during conflicts. Ultimately, taking a life is an incredible act in my opinion but I understand that in wartime, people are killed on both sides. It's horrible but that's the way it is.

What is unacceptable is stories like this. As a white British male with centre to right political leaning, I don't tend to have a lot in common with the bleeding heart club. Yet, when I hear about illegal detention camps where innocent people are detained and tortured without trial or when I see evidence of Western forces sexually and physically abusing prisoners and urinating on enemy corpses, then I feel revulsion. And these are just the examples that Allied forces are stupid enough to film for FUN!!!

So, if I feel revulsion, what the hell do young Afghan or Iraq men think when they see their Countrymen being abused?

Not exactly rocket science is it?

[BDunnell]

I didn't realise that wearing a uniform was some sort of moral indicator. My respect for the KKK has just increased tenfold :(

There are disgusting acts committed by both sides during conflicts. Ultimately, taking a life is an incredible act in my opinion but I understand that in wartime, people are killed on both sides. It's horrible but that's the way it is.

What is unacceptable is stories like this. As a white British male with centre to right political leaning, I don't tend to have a lot in common with the bleeding heart club. Yet, when I hear about illegal detention camps where innocent people are detained and tortured without trial or when I see evidence of Western forces sexually and physically abusing prisoners and urinating on enemy corpses, then I feel revulsion. And these are just the examples that Allied forces are stupid enough to film for FUN!!!

So, if I feel revulsion, what the hell do young Afghan or Iraq men think when they see their Countrymen being abused?

Not exactly rocket science is it?

Seldom have I agreed more with a post.

[BDunnell]

But isn't it the way they trains soldiers, that the enemy isn't human and so deserves to be killed. The removal of that sense of humanity leads to all sorts of consequences.

Despite this, the majority of soldiers that kill a member of the enemy side seem to be able to do without urinating on their corpses.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Look at the way in which pilots from opposing sides in the First and Second World Wars had respect for their opponents. Such an attitude would not go amiss.

It's probably easier for the pilots, cause they don't kill each other in hand-to-hand combat. That said, even foot soldiers demonstrated some code of honor during WWII. E.g. here's what happened between Italians and the British in East Africa in 1941:

On 18 May, the Duke of Aosta surrendered his embattled forces at Amba Alagi. General Mayne agreed to a surrender with "full military honors" (allowing the troops to march off the battlefield in formation and then surrender their arms) in exchange for the Duke's agreement to hand over the battlefield 'clean'. This put the Duke on his honour to identify all mines and booby-traps to the troops taking over the area and included his agreement that the Italians' remaining equipment and stores should not be sabotaged or destroyed.

[monadvspec]

This is one of the reasons "kids" should never be in a war zone let alone an army. They are not intellectually developed enough to comprehend the disasters that they can cause by acts such as the one depicted in the video. Lord knows I am a firm believer in ousting the wanton violent and Neanderthal Taliban masquerading as a group of religious men. They are thug and deserve everything that is thrown at them. Doing what these two idiots did and having it filmed whilst smiling will remain with them and unfortunately the rest of us for many years as we will undoubtedly become victims of their actions. They just gave the insidious Taliban a "We Want You" poster. Shame!!!

[schmenke]

..."kids" ...

:?:
Isn't there a minimum age requirement for U.S. Marine recruitment? Also, I believe a minimum level of academic proficiency is also required?

[wedge]

Above all it is wrong morally of course and even easier to say that in front of a computer screen without being shot at everyday, worry about IEDs, seeing peers maimed & killed.

Then again perhaps they were c**ts in the first place.


way to win hearts and minds,

There was never much of it in the first place.

[chuck34]

First off let me say that I find this act completly un-called for and disgusting. I hope the soldiers are court-marshaled and set to jail for a good long time. There is no room for this in the US Army. These guys are dispicable human beings.


I didn't realise that wearing a uniform was some sort of moral indicator. My respect for the KKK has just increased tenfold :(

Actually yes, wearing a uniform does gain you respect, and rights. That has been the standard for pretty much as long as there has been warfare. Uniformed soldiers are to be treated with a higher level of respect than non-uniformed combatants. It says so right there in the Geneva Convention, etc.

KKK though, they're just horrible people no matter what they're wearing.

[BDunnell]

Actually yes, wearing a uniform does gain you respect, and rights. That has been the standard for pretty much as long as there has been warfare. Uniformed soldiers are to be treated with a higher level of respect than non-uniformed combatants. It says so right there in the Geneva Convention, etc.

I believe this to be an outdated concept. Respect should be given to the individual, not the uniform.

[race aficionado]

Actually yes, wearing a uniform does gain you respect, and rights. That has been the standard for pretty much as long as there has been warfare. Uniformed soldiers are to be treated with a higher level of respect than non-uniformed combatants. It says so right there in the Geneva Convention, etc.
.

Their uniforms are from Urban Outfitters. - Okay, terribly bad joke - but a worst joke is saying that just because they had no "uniform" they had less respect and rights because of the Geneva Convention etc. etc. The act was STUPID and the airing it at this moment of time is also so STUPID.

[schmenke]

I believe this to be an outdated concept. ....

I don’t believe so. A uniformed combatant has generally pledged allegiance to protect the people of a nation. He/she is fighting for a cause sanctioned by a government or nation.
This does not necessarily apply to non-uniformed combatants, hence they are not subject to the same respect.

[chuck34]

Their uniforms are from Urban Outfitters. - Okay, terribly bad joke - but a worst joke is saying that just because they had no "uniform" they had less respect and rights because of the Geneva Convention etc. etc. The act was STUPID and the airing it at this moment of time is also so STUPID.

In no way was I saying that this act was ok, uniform or not. I'm just pointing out that legally under the Geneva Convention the fact is that in many circumstances wearing a uniform DOES command more respect.

[BDunnell]

I don’t believe so. A uniformed combatant has generally pledged allegiance to protect the people of a nation. He/she is fighting for a cause sanctioned by a government or nation.
This does not necessarily apply to non-uniformed combatants, hence they are not subject to the same respect.

I don't care upon meeting someone whether they are sporting a uniform or not. A uniform does not, and should never, command immediate, unquestioning respect. No-one deserves that.

[chuck34]

I don't care upon meeting someone whether they are sporting a uniform or not. A uniform does not, and should never, command immediate, unquestioning respect. No-one deserves that.

But under international law, when you meet a uniformed soldier on the battle field, they are intitled to more respect than a non-uniformed combatant. Should that change? Maybe. But that is the fact as it currently stands.

Again, I am not trying to defend this act by these soldiers. That act is despicable uniform or not.

[schmenke]

I don't care upon meeting someone whether they are sporting a uniform or not. A uniform does not, and should never, command immediate, unquestioning respect. No-one deserves that.

Quite the opposite in my opinion. I have nothing but the utmost respect for uniformed combatants who serve in a combat role, who swear allegiance to protect my family, by unquestionably putting themselves in harm’s way in return for nothing asked.

An unarmed combatant, perhaps a militia, may opt to put him/herself in a combat situation, but typically for different reasons or end cause.

[Roamy]

What a liberal. Always running away from problems instead of confronting the issue at hand and fixing it!

There is no problem - War is hell. They behead people - blow up women and children - We kill them and piss on them - what is the problem. The person that released
this pictures deserves a good pissing as well. We have spent zillions of dollars on weapons to help minimize collateral damage. The enemies don't give a sh!t - The sad
part here is that you need to let go of Hannanity's balls and realize how to stop war rather than joining the media bandwagon over a little piss. We could use a neutron bomb and there
would not be much left to piss on.

[BDunnell]

Quite the opposite in my opinion. I have nothing but the utmost respect for uniformed combatants who serve in a combat role, who swear allegiance to protect my family, by unquestionably putting themselves in harm’s way in return for nothing asked.

'In return for nothing asked'? They are paid for doing a job — often, in the case of recent conflicts, a job I would rather they had not been sent to do.

[BDunnell]

There is no problem - War is hell. They behead people - blow up women and children - We kill them and piss on them - what is the problem.

The problem is that our side's forces can behave better than that.

[schmenke]

'In return for nothing asked'? They are paid for doing a job — often, in the case of recent conflicts, a job I would rather they had not been sent to do.

Yes, they are paid for serving. What I meant is that they ask for no adulation or gratitude from those who they swear to protect.

[BDunnell]

Yes, they are paid for serving. What I meant is that they ask for no adulation or gratitude from those who they swear to protect.

The fact that they don't ask doesn't automatically mean that they should get it, either. In recent conflicts, I have in no way felt that the fact of said troops going to war has made me any safer. Why should I be grateful to them?

[Roamy]

The problem is that our side's forces can behave better than that.

They certainly can in in most instances they do. However when they vent a bit WTFO. It is not that big of deal and only the overblown media followers of the bullish!t care.
Do you really think the Marine commanders care - They are just pissed at the camera man.

[schmenke]

The fact that they don't ask doesn't automatically mean that they should get it, either. In recent conflicts, I have in no way felt that the fact of said troops going to war has made me any safer. Why should I be grateful to them?

My government has decided that events contributing to recent conflicts pose a threat to this country’s citizens, necessitating the deployment of our military personnel. I don’t necessarily agree with the government’s assessments but it in no way diminishes my respect for our uniformed combatants. Our military personnel obey the order to deploy to conflicts and put themselves in harm’s way.
They present themselves to danger, are paid little and spend weeks or months at a time away from their loved ones. They endure this voluntarily because they feel commitment to protect the values, people and sovereignties of our nation and indeed Commonwealth.
For that they earn my utmost and continued gratitude and respect.

[ioan]

An absolutely sickening act. :down:
This is no different to when the Taliban parade soldiers bodies through the streets and I feel the soldiers should know better than to be disrespectful to dead bodies. They killed them in an act of war. P!ssing all over them for self gratification is not an act of war and needs to be punished IMO.

I am not a specialist in war affected people's psychology so I can't say much about this topic.

[BDunnell]

My government has decided that events contributing to recent conflicts pose a threat to this country’s citizens, necessitating the deployment of our military personnel.

Bit of a slavish view, don't you think?

[Dave B]

Our (previous) government decided that too, and 2 million took to the streets in protest. Funny old world.

[schmenke]

Bit of a slavish view, don't you think?

Obviously over-simplified for succinctness.

[Eki]

Expect some beheading videos of "westerners" in retaliation.

[BDunnell]

Expect some beheading videos of "westerners" in retaliation.

Something I presume some here would not object to if those doing the beheading are in uniform.

[A.F.F.]

The clip I saw was from "live leak" !! WTF ???

[markabilly]

There are far worse things in war.

In one sense, I say so what? Young people in a war crack up and do all sorts of things as their reality becomes over-stressed and distorted beyond recognition. This is not a big deal. They could have been stabbing babies and worse.

In another sense, I say this is a prime example of winning a battle but losing the war by demonstrating no respect, no humanity, and proving true the worst things that your enemy says about you.

The ability to face the absolute worse situations yet maintain one's moral compass while everyone around may be losing theirs, divides heroes from losers.



These guys are not only just losers, but have managed to brand all those around them with the same label.

[BDunnell]

In another sense, I say this is a prime example of winning a battle but losing the war by demonstrating no respect, no humanity, and proving true the worst things that your enemy says about you.

The ability to face the absolute worse situations yet maintain one's moral compass while everyone around may be losing theirs, divides heroes from losers.



These guys are not only just losers, but have managed to brand all those around them with the same label.

Those are very eloquent words, I think.

[Rollo]

My government has decided that events contributing to recent conflicts pose a threat to this country’s citizens, necessitating the deployment of our military personnel. I don’t necessarily agree with the government’s assessments but it in no way diminishes my respect for our uniformed combatants. Our military personnel obey the order to deploy to conflicts and put themselves in harm’s way.
They present themselves to danger, are paid little and spend weeks or months at a time away from their loved ones. They endure this voluntarily because they feel commitment to protect the values, people and sovereignties of our nation and indeed Commonwealth.
For that they earn my utmost and continued gratitude and respect.

I agree with these sentiments entirely.

I will also add that the military when deployed in foreign parts, acts on behalf of the nation they come from as their representatives and in a less formal sense as non-diplomatic ambassadors.

I would be annoyed if my country's military acted in ways like this overseas, because that's an image of the nation they represent. On the other hand, Roamy seems to be almost defending these actions, probably because they do represent him accurately.

[anthonyvop]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.

[Eki]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.
So, this is a case where two wrongs make right (kids will be confused)?

Do you believe that those dead Taliban are aware that their corpses are pissed on or their bodies castrated and fed to pigs (I wouldn't be surprised if the next we'll see US soldiers eating dead Talibans), so that they will correct their ways, quit Taliban, become devote Christians and servants of the US?

[Roamy]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.

AMEN Brother !

[donKey jote]

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect.

It's not about showing the taliban respect, it's about proudly displaying your own superior -they are supposedly based on your Christian God after all- moral values.
If you Vop are proud of such behaviour, that tells us all we needed to know about you and your morality.
Not like we didn't know already :dozey:

[BDunnell]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.

Tony, I say this quite genuinely — your attitude, your sheer enthusiasm for desecrating dead bodies, I find extremely worrying. I am sure this will provoke a typical response from you in the form of repeating the accusation back to the person making it, but this and other contributions over time force me to consider the stability of your mind.

[Dave B]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.

This attitude, combined with fousto's "war isn't pretty" viewpoint, presumably excuses Taliban who commit atrocities on Allied forces because they genuinely believe that they are the enemy and regularly witness them killing innocents in the name of "collateral damage". After all, to them it is the Americans and their allied who are the "murderous scumbags", so by your own logic you must agree that the Taliban are within their rights to kill and abuse them. :s

[BDunnell]

This attitude, combined with fousto's "war isn't pretty" viewpoint, presumably excuses Taliban who commit atrocities on Allied forces because they genuinely believe that they are the enemy and regularly witness them killing innocents in the name of "collateral damage". After all, to them it is the Americans and their allied who are the "murderous scumbags", so by your own logic you must agree that the Taliban are within their rights to kill and abuse them. :s

Don't forget that anthonyvop is so certain of the extent to which he is right that he considers it perfectly acceptable to take into a foreign country a firearm not licenced for use in said country. Reason is clearly not his strong point.

[BDunnell]

He travelled around most of Europe with an illegal firearm I seem to remember him saying. Rather worrying now when you consider what he considers acceptable to do to dead bodies of people that have been killed doing something he doesn't agree with. When I think back to the 'US Gun Law' thread, it makes me wonder what the police would find should he have shot an intruder dead. I would imagine the officers who make that gruesome discovery would need counselling for some considerable time. :eek:

His views as expressed here lead me to think that his suitability for the ownership of a firearm would, under any normal circumstances, be reassessed.

[monadvspec]

:?:
Isn't there a minimum age requirement for U.S. Marine recruitment? Also, I believe a minimum level of academic proficiency is also required?
I'm sorry this caused you to question the use of the word "kid". Maybe adolescent or youngster would be more succinct. I used the word kid because of the vast number of teenagers in the fighting forces. Unable to legally drink. Education? Remember, the bar was lowered when it was seen that the forces were falling short of their quotas. So, education of a standard equivalent to a secondary or high school level was not required.
The act perpetuated by this "men" was in my opinion the act of adolescents in the heat of battle. No excuse for them or those who sent them.

[monadvspec]

Whats the big deal?

Some dead, murderous, scumbags get pissed on....So what?
These people kill the innocent, Women, Children without any remorse and then hide by using the US's misplaced morality(In Mosques, hospitals, Schools..etc)

Their Bodies should be desecrated in the most vilest of forms to show these despicable people no respect and that their deaths will be as meaningless as their lives.

Do not bury them but feed their castrated corpse to the PIGS!!!!

And do not use that lame argument that by showing them respect we will expect and receive respect. They haven't before and only a truly committed pussy would think it would work now.

That you have written this and posted it to a public forum seen by so many and yet I get the impression that I am witnessing a person with deep psychological issues or a completely irrational xenophobe. A poster before me stated very eloquently that the men involved had already won the battle in a conventional manner. That is what they were trained to do.
Now, Anthony, when you see the contractors being dragged through the streets or the desecration of the troops in Somalia many years ago did you sit back and say...way to go to those perpetrating those despicable acts.

This reminds me of disorders of the brain caused by the abuse or lack of attention whilst "growing up"/prefrontal cortex, striatum, amygdala, sensory association cortices and cerebellum. Those are areas affected. You can look it up.

[Roamy]

I agree with these sentiments entirely.

I will also add that the military when deployed in foreign parts, acts on behalf of the nation they come from as their representatives and in a less formal sense as non-diplomatic ambassadors.

I would be annoyed if my country's military acted in ways like this overseas, because that's an image of the nation they represent. On the other hand, Roamy seems to be almost defending these actions, probably because they do represent him accurately.

Yes Rollo if we were at war and I shot you - I would have no problem pissing on you!! But I probably wouldn't take the time

[monadvspec]

I urge anyone reading this thread for the first time, or indeed visiting this forum for the first time, that the despicable views of the Americans here is not at all representative of their country as a whole. Having read some of the reactions to this in other sources, I think the majority of Americans are deeply saddened and sickened by the actions of the soldiers in this piece.
Although I was not born in the US my paternal side were from the early 1800's through to the famine era when there was a family bereavement and we were separated.
I know that if my father (American and Grandfather and Uncle (vet)) saw this they would be appalled. This is certainly not in keeping with Americans and viewing Anthony and Roamys posts it seems that they are vile ignorant and despicable to the point of sociopathic.

I would love to know what the poster who started the Islam thread stated that got him banned but if these people, Roamy and Anthonyprop are receiving a free pass for their maniacal and almost criminal posts then it saddens me.

[Dave B]

I urge anyone reading this thread for the first time, or indeed visiting this forum for the first time, that the despicable views of the Americans here is not at all representative of their country as a whole. Having read some of the reactions to this in other sources, I think the majority of Americans are deeply saddened and sickened by the actions of the soldiers in this piece.
This. 99.999% of Americans (and soldiers (and Christians & Muslims ;) )) exhibit perfectly sensible behaviour but there will always be those at the fringes who spoil it for everyone.

[BDunnell]

I urge anyone reading this thread for the first time, or indeed visiting this forum for the first time, that the despicable views of the Americans here is not at all representative of their country as a whole. Having read some of the reactions to this in other sources, I think the majority of Americans are deeply saddened and sickened by the actions of the soldiers in this piece.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, we see some of the worst of the inarticulate, and in some cases possibly quite disturbed, lunatic fringe on occasion. I do not use a word like 'disturbed' lightly, but how else can one describe any individual who finds delight in urinating on a corpse?

[Rollo]

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, we see some of the worst of the inarticulate, and in some cases possibly quite disturbed, lunatic fringe on occasion. I do not use a word like 'disturbed' lightly, but how else can one describe any individual who finds delight in urinating on a corpse?

At the same time this discussion perfectly illustrates why the right to free speech is so vital in a civilised society. I'd like to quote someone on this topic:


I respect her right to free speech and that she should have the right to say whatever she wants to... and be judged for it.


As far back as Aristotle who said that we may be judged for our character; I think that's it's so much easier to do that when people offer things like this so freely.

[BDunnell]

At the same time this discussion perfectly illustrates why the right to free speech is so vital in a civilised society. I'd like to quote someone on this topic:



As far back as Aristotle who said that we may be judged for our character; I think that's it's so much easier to do that when people offer things like this so freely.

Indeed.

[anthonyvop]

This attitude, combined with fousto's "war isn't pretty" viewpoint, presumably excuses Taliban who commit atrocities on Allied forces because they genuinely believe that they are the enemy and regularly witness them killing innocents in the name of "collateral damage". After all, to them it is the Americans and their allied who are the "murderous scumbags", so by your own logic you must agree that the Taliban are within their rights to kill and abuse them. :s

That is only true if you actually believe the Taliban is on the same moral standing as the US. Of course any sane, moral person accepts the fact that the Taliban is an evil, Vile, organization who refuses to follow even the most basic precepts of Human rights.

[anthonyvop]

So, this is a case where two wrongs make right (kids will be confused)?

Do you believe that those dead Taliban are aware that their corpses are pissed on or their bodies castrated and fed to pigs

Nope...But their leaders, fellow soldiers, families and friends will know it and it will cause them to rethink this whole "I will kill you because you are happy" ideal they live by.

[anthonyvop]

God would be proud.

God? Please. Stop wasting my time with fairy tales



It's not about showing the taliban respect, it's about proudly displaying your own superior -they are supposedly based on your Christian God after all- moral values.
If you Vop are proud of such behaviour, that tells us all we needed to know about you and your morality.
Not like we didn't know already :dozey:

My morality is vastly superior to pretty much everyone who posts here so your silly ranting about a "christian god" is mildly amusing.

[airshifter]

I'm sorry this caused you to question the use of the word "kid". Maybe adolescent or youngster would be more succinct. I used the word kid because of the vast number of teenagers in the fighting forces. Unable to legally drink. Education? Remember, the bar was lowered when it was seen that the forces were falling short of their quotas. So, education of a standard equivalent to a secondary or high school level was not required.
The act perpetuated by this "men" was in my opinion the act of adolescents in the heat of battle. No excuse for them or those who sent them.


As for education you'll find that for the US military the education levels are higher than most non military men and women. The myth that the US military was young and dumb is just that... myth. ;)

As for "kids" I do agree somewhat that age and maturity probably play a part in the often poor decisions of younger people. But in circumstances such as war or any combat arena I'm not sure if those factors alone are the problem. I don't excuse the actions of anyone doing such a thing, but it's easy for us to question when sitting behind a keyboard without having to worry about encountering an IED on the next convoy, or without missing our friends that have not been fortunate enough to make it home from such areas.

There are more than a few people from all countries involved who have spent the majority of their adult lives in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. For the most part they still conduct themselves in a manner worthy of respect. But I'd guess that even much older and mature adults would on occasion do such things after living in areas where they see the worst of humans on a regular basis.

Again, not to excuse their actions, but to be honest it does not surprise me that we don't frequently see much more vile acts from people involved in sustained combat operations for extended periods of time. The very nature of combat environments seems that it would bring out any evil within people.

[Rollo]

I'm going to take this at absolute face value and then raise a question:


As for education you'll find that for the US military the education levels are higher than most non military men and women. The myth that the US military was young and dumb is just that... myth. ;)

Assuming that the US military is more educated, then presumably these actions are made by rational and educated people. In other words they have chosen to represent the United States this way.


Again, not to excuse their actions, but to be honest it does not surprise me that we don't frequently see much more vile acts from people involved in sustained combat operations for extended periods of time. The very nature of combat environments seems that it would bring out any evil within people.

If this doesn't surprise you, then what does this say about the United Stated as a nation if a more educated portion of its citizenry deliberately chooses to engage in actions such as this?
Several sports have charges for "bringing the game into disrepute". Surely this is something akin to that but instead of a mere game, they do it to the nation.

[Eki]

Nope...But their leaders, fellow soldiers, families and friends will know it and it will cause them to rethink this whole "I will kill you because you are happy" ideal they live by.
Dream on. All they'll be thinking is revenge.

[Eki]

That is only true if you actually believe the Taliban is on the same moral standing as the US. Of course any sane, moral person accepts the fact that the Taliban is an evil, Vile, organization who refuses to follow even the most basic precepts of Human rights.
I thought you didn't believe in human rights, or at least don't accept them.

[A.F.F.]

Again, not to excuse their actions, but to be honest it does not surprise me that we don't frequently see much more vile acts from people involved in sustained combat operations for extended periods of time. The very nature of combat environments seems that it would bring out any evil within people.

:up:

I agree. How many of us can really relate to the soldiers on battlefield and guarantee we would not do similar actions ??

[schmenke]

... Education? Remember, the bar was lowered when it was seen that the forces were falling short of their quotas. So, education of a standard equivalent to a secondary or high school level was not required.
...

Even for the Marines?

[monadvspec]

Even for the Marines?
Yes, all areas of the ground forces could accept less educated recruits. That does not necessarily mean they were less intelligent but less aware through lack of education.

[monadvspec]

Nope...But their leaders, fellow soldiers, families and friends will know it and it will cause them to rethink this whole "I will kill you because you are happy" ideal they live by. That post surmises exactly the extent of your knowledge of the Taliban and their reasons for fighting.
You on the other hand take the high road moralizing when you are one of the most immoral people I have ever witnessed posting on any type of forum , anywhere.

[donKey jote]

My morality is vastly superior to pretty much everyone who posts here
Yet you are proud of people pissing on dead bodies, or would at least be proud to go a step further...
pull the other one, "big" Tony :dozey:

[Eki]

Even for the Marines?
Aren't they more muscle and less brain?

[schmenke]

Aren't they more muscle and less brain?

I was always under the impression that the minimum education requirements for the U.S. marines was more strict than regular army GIs?

[Eki]

I was always under the impression that the minimum education requirements for the U.S. marines was more strict than regular army GIs?
I've been under the impression that only the physical fitness requirements are more strict.

[airshifter]

Assuming that the US military is more educated, then presumably these actions are made by rational and educated people. In other words they have chosen to represent the United States this way.



If this doesn't surprise you, then what does this say about the United Stated as a nation if a more educated portion of its citizenry deliberately chooses to engage in actions such as this?
Several sports have charges for "bringing the game into disrepute". Surely this is something akin to that but instead of a mere game, they do it to the nation.

It says nothing of the US for a few individuals to screw up. The US has for the most part been there longer, had the majority of people there the entire time, and has had higher level operations than most other coalition countries. Men from Camp Lejeune were the first to arrive in any numbers, and have been dealing with the Taliban since shortly after 9/11 took place.

My statement is simply that with some of these people serving multiple tours, and even without, they are dealing with an enemy that hides among civilians and children on a regular basis, refuses to identify themselves as combatants, holds no moral ground as compared to virtually anyone else and has never done any of the previous in recent history. Dealing with the scum of the earth might lead people to do things they normally wouldn't.

There are more than a few countries that have had military men do stupid things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many of them have't nearly as many troops there as the US has. You may wish to search for such crimes and take a look at how inhuman some of them are as compared to pissing on a dead man.

[Bob Riebe]

Don't forget that anthonyvop is so certain of the extent to which he is right that he considers it perfectly acceptable to take into a foreign country a firearm not licenced for use in said country. Reason is clearly not his strong point.The same broken record type post you seem to be addicted to.
You are once again ignoring the subject but attacking the poster by dragging up old news not even remotely related to the topic at hand.
Maybe your this magnifies your image of yourself.

Well at least you do not resort to grade school type insults as a norm.
---------------
On the subject, it may have been done for some reason we do not have the least knowledge of, nor any excuse for judging from afar; at the same time if it was filmed on purpose it was a moronic act and they deserve any misery that comes their way.
If they did not know it was being recorded, they should take the person with the camera out behind a tent a whip his buttocks thoroughly.

[Bob Riebe]

I wasn't wasting your time and it should have been clear by who I had quoted with a religious statement.

I do find it amusing that you think Donkey and myself are religious. Perhaps you should try and tell that to your friend Mr Riebe who I feel would very quickly tell you otherwise. :laugh: I believe putting my name into a thread for no reason whatsoever related to the topic is a violation of this forums rules.
Good advice stop doing it.

[Eki]

an enemy that hides among civilians and children on a regular basis, refuses to identify themselves as combatants,
That sounds like the resistance movements in some European countries during the WW2.

[ArrowsFA1]

...it may have been done for some reason we do not have the least knowledge of, nor any excuse for judging from afar...
I take your point about judging this incident from a distance but what reason (i.e.sound judgement or good sense) could there possibly be?

[Eki]

Could you quote the rule regarding that as I have not found that instruction?

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

[SGWilko]

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, we see some of the worst of the inarticulate, and in some cases possibly quite disturbed, lunatic fringe on occasion. I do not use a word like 'disturbed' lightly, but how else can one describe any individual who finds delight in urinating on a corpse?

How would you compare this to drunken yobs urinating on a memorial. Isn't urinating on hero's resting places, that fought for your country, even worse?

[Eki]

How would you compare this to drunken yobs urinating on a memorial. Isn't urinating on hero's resting places, that fought for your country, even worse?
I'd rate them about equal, because somebody's hero is usually someone else's villain and vice versa.

[monadvspec]

It says nothing of the US for a few individuals to screw up. The US has for the most part been there longer, had the majority of people there the entire time, and has had higher level operations than most other coalition countries. Men from Camp Lejeune were the first to arrive in any numbers, and have been dealing with the Taliban since shortly after 9/11 took place.

My statement is simply that with some of these people serving multiple tours, and even without, they are dealing with an enemy that hides among civilians and children on a regular basis, refuses to identify themselves as combatants, holds no moral ground as compared to virtually anyone else and has never done any of the previous in recent history. Dealing with the scum of the earth might lead people to do things they normally wouldn't.

There are more than a few countries that have had military men do stupid things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and many of them haven't nearly as many troops there as the US has. You may wish to search for such crimes and take a look at how inhuman some of them are as compared to pissing on a dead man.
Airshifter, I empathize with quite a Lot of what you say. I do not agree that looking up the crimes of others allows the desecration of the dead no matter whom they are but especially those in combat. Western ideals and if we are to go by Prop and Riebe and their sense of morality and justification for the despicable act, one amongst many that seem to have been forgotten. A certain prison where innocent (proven) were tortured and debased by a bunch of ignoramus' that wore stripes for god's sake.
Being "sanctimonious" and "pious" does not lead one to morality. The Inquisition and Crusades thought us that. The posters I refer to are, thankfully members of a tiny fringe that gain the headline and rational people such as yourself are lost.
I do not see you condemn this act but I can understand when a persons country is attacked by the act of two or three that they would defend, We all owe the United States quite a lot and we should I and others who post against some actions are not (me personally) bashing your great country. Just the Rebe's and Vop's :)

[Roamy]

Airshifter, I empathize with quite a Lot of what you say. I do not agree that looking up the crimes of others allows the desecration of the dead no matter whom they are but especially those in combat. Western ideals and if we are to go by Prop and Riebe and their sense of morality and justification for the despicable act, one amongst many that seem to have been forgotten. A certain prison where innocent (proven) were tortured and debased by a bunch of ignoramus' that wore stripes for god's sake.
Being "sanctimonious" and "pious" does not lead one to morality. The Inquisition and Crusades thought us that. The posters I refer to are, thankfully members of a tiny fringe that gain the headline and rational people such as yourself are lost.
I do not see you condemn this act but I can understand when a persons country is attacked by the act of two or three that they would defend, We all owe the United States quite a lot and we should I and others who post against some actions are not (me personally) bashing your great country. Just the Rebe's and Vop's :)

Monadvspec would you mind listing all the wars you have been in. This will help us establish your credibility with respect to this thread. thank you!

[Dave B]

Monadvspec would you mind listing all the wars you have been in. This will help us establish your credibility with respect to this thread. thank you!
So now you can't have a viewpoint on something unless you've been directly involved? Well, that should make it easier to ignore most of your comments from now on...

[Firstgear]

So now you can't have a viewpoint on something unless you've been directly involved? Well, that should make it easier to ignore most of your comments from now on...
I don't think you're understanding what Fousto is getting at. He's not saying you can't have an opinion. He's saying your opinion will carry more weight, or be more credible, if you've been there.

Would you like to hear my opinion of what it feels like to win the WDC, or would you put more stock in say Vettel's or Hamilton's opinion on that?

I don't condone what these guys did, but I believe that war can bring out the worst in people, and people are capable of very ugly things.
So seeing something like this saddens me - but it doesn't surprise me. There, so now you have my opinion on something I know nothing about.

[monadvspec]

Monadvspec would you mind listing all the wars you have been in. This will help us establish your credibility with respect to this thread. thank you!

Why should I have to provide you with anything? What knowledge do you have of the terrain of Afghanistan, it's culture, it's morals, how many are Pashtun, who is in the minority, Hazaras?

In order for me to speak about the Battle of The Bulge did I have to there? How about Gettysburg? Would I have to have been there in order to known that many men died without reason because of poor medical conditions.

But, to amuse you I will let you in on a sad fact. I was 100 yards away from a 500 lb bomb that killed nine people. This first was followed by two subsequent bombs placed strategically to

cause as much damage as possible.

I saw limbs, lacerations too visceral to describe and children damaged and bleeding beyond recognition. Me, I suffered a burst eardrum. That was it. Flying glass and pieces of shrapnel all

missed me. Why, who knows. But I did not have to tell you this as my point of view is not dictated by the likes of your Bill O'Reilly who believes he was in combat because he was in an area

where he was reporting on a war.

Asking that question only makes me wonder how many times in your 19,000 posts you have asked a similar question.

[Garry Walker]

This incident, and others like it, has nothing to do with this. Yes, war is 'not nice', but this is no excuse for such revolting behaviour. It is a symptom of yobbishness. Look at the way in which pilots from opposing sides in the First and Second World Wars had respect for their opponents. Such an attitude would not go amiss.

Yeah, those Soviet and German fighter pilots had tremendous respect for each other.


As for this story, I have two views.
On one hand, I really don't see a problem, I am not troubled even slightly by this. As far as I am concerned they could anally rape the dead bodies of taliban fighters for 10 days and I wouldn't care. Those taliban guys deserve that and far worse.
On the other hand, I can see why this would piss off non taliban afghans. Because most people (all over the world) are so sensitive these days that they will be shocked at this behaviour (they should read up on some of the things done by both allies and axis in WW2), so this will be an all-out PR nightmare. Let's be honest, during WW2, no one would have cared about such behaviour.

Extra mention for those guys for having an IQ of 15 for letting someone record them pissing on those guys, what idiots.

[Roamy]

Thank you Firstgear !!

monadvspec - that is what I thought - you don't know sh!t ! you have a alligator mouth and a paper asshole !!

[Roamy]

Have you been to Afghanistan Fousto?

Nope just Vietnam - That was enough for me. How bout you?

[Eki]

Nope just Vietnam - That was enough for me. How bout you?
Do you think the Vietnam war was justified and Vietnam was a threat to the US? My grandmothers nephew was in the Vietnam war and killed himself afterwards, so I guess he was not happy about it.

[monadvspec]

Thank you Firstgear !!

monadvspec - that is what I thought - you don't know sh!t ! you have a alligator mouth and a paper asshole !!

Once again I see someone with a disguised obscenity and he/she gets away with it.
Because you were in Vietnam says nothing. You could have been in Saigon as a cook. Who knows. Maybe a cushy job with the Air Force or better still on a carrier watching airplanes take off.
Get down off your high horse and try to take a rational look if you are capable and see the damage that is done by a couple of idiots peeing on corpses while another jackass films and posts it.
Heat of battle? Doubt it. It was preplanned or none of us would see it. Film /distribute.

Would I know more of the effects of war if I actually had been in one and on the front. Sure. However, training is what is supposed to prepare soldiers and marines for that.

You do not monopolize the opinions and beliefs of others about right and wrong because

you have been there as you have said.

You also can't be so simplistic as to suggest that you are all knowing and not one other person , say, George Bush, or two Dick Cheney or that gas bag I hear on the radio at two or three in the morning Limbaugh spewing on about the war and not one of them ever served but they sent and then some others like Limbaugh pontificated like you as though the rest of us had no idea even though our sons or daughters if you had thought it through may be serving.

[Ranger]

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them"

- George Orwell

[Rollo]

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them"
- George Orwell

"Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
- George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946.

[janvanvurpa]

I don't think you're understanding what Fousto is getting at. He's not saying you can't have an opinion. He's saying your opinion will carry more weight, or be more credible, if you've been "there".


I don't condone what these guys did, but I believe that war can bring out the worst in people, and people are capable of very ugly things.
So seeing something like this saddens me - but it doesn't surprise me. There, so now you have my opinion on something I know nothing about.

I almost agree. I say an opinion MIGHT carry more weight if somebody has been is a particular situation. Might, provided that they were not mentally or emotionally damaged or crippled by that experience....
Or it might be a narrow gut opinion---one we cannot take issue with too much, but what that experience means in a broader sense, a cultural or historical sense, a participant MIGHT have something cogent to say---and they might not...

The Chit-chat fourm here, dominated by a small handful of extremely opinionated, incredibly superficially read and very aggressive behind their keyboards--and old age---is ruined by just a few and I have been insulted by Fousto/Roamy many times so I have no intentions of trying to discuss with what I see as a mentally deranged raving lunatic, but you might ask him to detail just where he was in Viet Nam since he is attempting to use the fact that he was there at some point, as a medic but for all we know in a comfy air conditioned clinic given shots for syphilis, and now he is, once again, trying to us that to one up everybody... It was a long war and a big country, when and where and what a person did makes a big difference in their opinions later shared..

So ask him, and ask him if his experience so long ago is what has warped his brain or was it afterwards that he became the big talking "kill 'em all" thing he is today?

[BDunnell]

Monadvspec would you mind listing all the wars you have been in. This will help us establish your credibility with respect to this thread. thank you!

You have, as far as I am aware, had no direct involvement in politics. Therefore, do you consider it right for your political opinions to be dismissed as worthless?

[janvanvurpa]

You have, as far as I am aware, had no direct involvement in politics. Therefore, do you consider it right for your political opinions to be dismissed as worthless?


For that matter, this being a motorsport forum devoted to discussion, it probably would be a pretty empty place if only those with actual motorsport experience were the only ones to be allowed to comment...which is obviously not the case..

It does appear that this is yet one more thing that if anybody else does a thing it is ghastly and horrible, but essentially the same thing is perfectly acceptable if done by Americans....more of the "do as I say, not as I do" which is such a hallmark of individual and US foreign policy for the last 150 years or so...
Cognitive dissonance much?