Jari Ketomaa 2012 season

[A.F.F.]

Jari Ketomaa huippukalustolla MM-sarjaan - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2012/01/1474930/jari-ketomaa-huippukalustolla-mm-sarjaan)

The program contains five rallyes; Sweden, Acropolis, Portugal, Finland obviously and Rally GB. Ketomaa is faster than Paasonen so resultwise thinking, I'm way disappointed if he is not the champion after rally GB!!!!

[N.O.T]

the comparison with Tanak is going to be interesting.

[A.F.F.]

Ketomaa has not tested the car nor the tyres yet. His plan is to get to know the car on the snow of Sweden. After that he expects podium results from the remaining rallyes :D That's the spirit :up:

Ketomaa sure knows how to talk the talk, now he only has to walk the walk.

If he is slower than Tanak, he can move back to China and rally there.

[Barreis]

:D

[cali]

Ketomaa has not tested the car nor the tyres yet. His plan is to get to know the car on the snow of Sweden. After that he expects podium results from the remaining rallyes :D That's the spirit :up:

Ketomaa sure knows how to talk the talk, now he only has to walk the walk.

If he is slower than Tanak, he can move back to China and rally there.

I remember Paasonen talking and not walking ;) :D

[A.F.F.]

I remember Paasonen talking and not walking ;) :D

:up:

On serious note, I'm honestly glad Ketomaa has even this small program for this season. The guy is fast. I hope he shoots and scores :up:

[cali]

Me too, hopefully he can deliver something. DMack tires are unproven though ...

[A.F.F.]

. DMack tires are unproven though ...

Well, one things for sure, Ketomaa shall put them in to a real test :D

[Hartusvuori]

I share your thoughts. There was a long silence from Ketomaa and I'd given up hope already in this economical climate. One thing for sure, this is better than nothing. But I hope we won't hear excuses on the tyres - although, don't bite the hand that feeds you even if the tyres would prove not worthy. We don't know yet.

Ketomaa is very charismatic, a rally driver who we don't know for always complaining but rather the opposite.

[rp]

Apparently former "manager" Kim Vatanen or Craig Pollock are no more supporting Ketomaa. Anybody know what is the situation? Maybe Ogier´s well-paid contract with VW was enough for them...

Without the support from the DMack tyres it would not be possible and great to see some role also for Grönholm and Harkimo, but I doubt that they are putting own money to this project...

[Tomi]

Without the support from the DMack tyres it would not be possible and great to see some role also for Grönholm and Harkimo, but I doubt that they are putting own money to this project...

I think there is no need for Harkimos or Grönholms own money, some Bosses old sponsors might support in some way, but its nice to see that good drivers get help when needed, for Ketomaa its now or never.

[DonJippo]

Apparently former "manager" Kim Vatanen or Craig Pollock are no more supporting Ketomaa. Anybody know what is the situation?

They are still there.

[vkangas]

Initially Dmack offered a deal only for Sweden (full funding) but Ketomaa managed to get a package of five rallies with the help of his personal supporters including Harkimo and Grönholm besides the old ones.

Ketomaa's target is to drive well and attract more funding to be able to do more rallies in the later season and get a factory contract for 2013.

He will drive in Autotek Motorsport's team.

In finnish: JARI KETOMAA AJAA VIISI RALLIN MM-OSAKILPAILUA - Ralli.net (http://ralli.net/kaikkiuutiset/ralli/7898-jari-ketomaa-ajaa-viisi-rallin-mm-osakilpailua)

[N.O.T]

he is certainly an attractive choice for any factory but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping tarmac events...

[vkangas]

he is certainly an attractive choice for any factory but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping tarmac events...
It's also possible that Dmack has something to say here.

[tfp]

It's also possible that Dmack has something to say here.

Have the Dmacks ever been driven on anger on tarmac in a WR spec car?

[Sulland]

he is certainly an attractive choice for any factory but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping tarmac events...

Maybe DMACK has hired a asfalt specialist for those, to further develop. They need the right feedback.

[A.F.F.]

he is certainly an attractive choice for any factory but he is not doing himself any favors by skipping tarmac events...

vkangas is very right with his comment. Originally Ketomaa had plans to drive more WRC rallyes last year and he specificly stated his desire to drive tarmac rallyes as he felt succeeding in them would do him more good than on gravel ones. Unfortunately it all failed with poor partnership. Ketomaa is very confident about his pace on tarmac. More confident than me :)

[N.O.T]

and people are getting upset when i give Slowson a hard time for being a useless waste of space in a car...

If Wilson was serious about his team he would put Ketomaa in his car... As Citroen did with Neuville....

[A.F.F.]

Does anybody know the real reason for Ketomaa's lack of speed last NORF?? That kind of thing cannot happen in this year's rallyes !

[vkangas]

Don't know REAL reasons but remember Ketomaa saying that it was really hard with new car and friday's stages that were not so representative finnish roads.

Remember also Latvala had problems with speed on friday that he was able to solve trough setup changes. Not so easy task for privateer that has covered 100 km's in the car.

One thing I really like Ketomaa is his self confidence in all his doing. Sometimes comments are bold but as he's a fast driver they are not unrealistic.

OT: Lack of ability to market yourself (and maybe little self confidence) is the one reason I am afraid the future could turn out not too bright for Hänninen. I really respect him as a driver but I hate watching the interviews where Juho is saying something like "we are sitting at home as we know that if some team wants us they can give us a call..."

[Plan9]

Initially Dmack offered a deal only for Sweden (full funding) but Ketomaa managed to get a package of five rallies with the help of his personal supporters including Harkimo and Grönholm besides the old ones.

Ketomaa's target is to drive well and attract more funding to be able to do more rallies in the later season and get a factory contract for 2013.

He will drive in Autotek Motorsport's team.

In finnish: JARI KETOMAA AJAA VIISI RALLIN MM-OSAKILPAILUA - Ralli.net (http://ralli.net/kaikkiuutiset/ralli/7898-jari-ketomaa-ajaa-viisi-rallin-mm-osakilpailua)

It could be interesting to see who he approaches for a factory drive in 2013; all the main teams look book up unless he knows something the media does not.

[A.F.F.]

Don't know REAL reasons but remember Ketomaa saying that it was really hard with new car and friday's stages that were not so representative finnish roads.

Remember also Latvala had problems with speed on friday that he was able to solve trough setup changes. Not so easy task for privateer that has covered 100 km's in the car.

One thing I really like Ketomaa is his self confidence in all his doing. Sometimes comments are bold but as he's a fast driver they are not unrealistic.

OT: Lack of ability to market yourself (and maybe little self confidence) is the one reason I am afraid the future could turn out not too bright for Hänninen. I really respect him as a driver but I hate watching the interviews where Juho is saying something like "we are sitting at home as we know that if some team wants us they can give us a call..."

Exactly :up:

I very much like Ketomaa's style. Bold words yes but with a blink in his eye. Hänninen's character unfortunately is from the same camp as Gardemeister.

[cali]

With all this hype around Ketomaa's personality and ability to market himself, remind me again who is driving for factory Škoda and who is sitting at home? :D
I actually like Hänninen's personality, always straight forward and no BS from him.

[Viking]

With all this hype around Ketomaa's personality and ability to market himself, remind me again who is driving for factory Škoda and who is sitting at home? :D
I actually like Hänninen's personality, always straight forward and no BS from him.

:up: :D

[vkangas]

With all this hype around Ketomaa's personality and ability to market himself, remind me again who is driving for factory Škoda and who is sitting at home? :D
I actually like Hänninen's personality, always straight forward and no BS from him.
Very true also. :)

My point was that when approaching teams Hanninen could do a little more. Generally in interviews he is nice guy and in finnish atleast has also funny comments.

The thing I am afraid is that Hänninen is not getting anywhere after Skoda contract ends as there are so few teams.

[Plan9]

You are right. It doesn't seem like there will be any room for Juho H at VW in the short term.

[A.F.F.]

One down, four to go. What a farce was Dmack's conquest on Swedish snow. What I do know is that Ketomaa is not a quitter. It must have been hard from him to withdraw from the rally. Shame really because with proper tyres, he might have fought places 3-5. I truly TRULY hope those tyres give him a chance to show what he got on gravel. Otherwise it's waste deal and another year lost.....

[A FONDO]

which places????? :rotflmao:

[Tomi]

Very true also. :)

My point was that when approaching teams Hanninen could do a little more.

For instance what can a driver with a contract do, who exactly should he approach?

[vkangas]

For instance what can a driver with a contract do, who exactly should he approach?
Basically just be active. Juho has actually said that he waits teams to call him. Of course talents get always recognized and the driving is the nr. 1 priority but I don't like this "waiting good things to happen" attitude.

[RS]

There are no teams. Hanninen and Ketomaa are buggered as far as works WRC drives go unless some new manufacturers turn up very soon or some of the existing ones choose to run third or fourth cars on a regular basis.

Shame, but it seems we will have a bit of a lost generation of drivers who are around the 30 years of age mark.

[Plan9]

There are no teams. Hanninen and Ketomaa are buggered as far as works WRC drives go unless some new manufacturers turn up very soon or some of the existing ones choose to run third or fourth cars on a regular basis.

Shame, but it seems we will have a bit of a lost generation of drivers who are around the 30 years of age mark.

+1 I agree. I have also noticed something similar with Andersson, Meeke, Sandell, Galli, Aava, maybe Sordo, Wilks, Nasser etc. I think we are going to lose this generation of reasonably talented drivers from the WRC altogether unless the FIA allows third cars and is flexible on who scores Manufacturer points. Something really must be done about this; but I don't think there will be another "Petter Solberg WRT" style set-up to save these guys tragically.

[A FONDO]

yes one generation is gone but there is another one coming up isnt it ?! we cant cry for every wasted talent, there are thousands of them, life is cruel yeah

[Barreis]

Why did he stopped his rally?

[vkangas]

Why did he stopped his rally?
Decision made together with the team as it was clear Dmack's were not competetive.

[Mirek]

Actually from times of Aasen it looked like they were doing surprisingly better on Saturday than on Friday.

[Barreis]

Wasn't Tanak also on DMacks?

[vkangas]

Wasn't Tanak also on DMacks?
No.

[Allyc85]

Wasn't Tanak also on DMacks?

No, he is on the same as PS and JML :)

[Plan9]

Decision made together with the team as it was clear Dmack's were not competetive.

Can he quit using DMACK's altogether this season? His car is festooned with the logo though...

[Plan9]

yes one generation is gone but there is another one coming up isnt it ?! we cant cry for every wasted talent, there are thousands of them, life is cruel yeah

We can add Atko to that list as well. We all know he is not coming home to the WRC.

I have doubts about the next generation. On this "lost generation" (sounds like a UN memo on poverty in the 3rd world); they probably would have had drives if more companies were involved and possibly if M-Sport had not maintained the same driver line up for many seasons (who could blame them as without Gronholm they had no chance of the Manufacturers title). For me I have followed drivers like P-G etc for many years and it sucks for me to see them fall just short. Life goes on however.

[A.F.F.]

Can he quit using DMACK's altogether this season? His car is festooned with the logo though...

He is under a contract of five rallyes with Dmack. Quitting using them means quitting driving :mark:

[jens]

Very interesting discussion about this lost generation. When those currently ~30-y-o drivers were rising stars, most of the manufacturers quitted WRC and there were no opportunities left. From that generation only Hirvonen and Sordo have come through and have had some kind of a decent career. But now those 30-y-o drivers are considered old and past their prime, because a new 20-25y generation is coming up. Which is kinda unfair as Panizzi and Rovanperä turned into WRC frontrunners only at around 35. And Grönholm had his first proper full factory season (incidentally including the title!) at 32.

[Barreis]

But Bosse had number of works outings before.

[Plan9]

Very interesting discussion about this lost generation. When those currently ~30-y-o drivers were rising stars, most of the manufacturers quitted WRC and there were no opportunities left. From that generation only Hirvonen and Sordo have come through and have had some kind of a decent career. But now those 30-y-o drivers are considered old and past their prime, because a new 20-25y generation is coming up. Which is kinda unfair as Panizzi and Rovanperä turned into WRC frontrunners only at around 35. And Grönholm had his first proper full factory season (incidentally including the title!) at 32.

+1 very true. The withdrawal of Subaru, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Hyundai, Skoda/Seat et al is definitely a cause of these drivers not having a home. I also feel people like Ketomaa suffer because unlike Panizzi and Rovanpera they do not get to be "specialist" drivers and do at least a few rounds each year. Its also interesting to note that Solberg and Loeb are the two drivers from their generation to have gone furthest, Martin and Gardmister had their careers curtailed for example.

Also in a recent Auto Action magazine article (I'll try to find it) Leob despairs of the 20-25 generation because they feel its okay to crash as they can come back with "Rally 2" and are not interested in consistency. Loeb also found it interesting how few of these young guys could beat Delecour. the 30 year old generation has speed and for the most part has been quite impressive in the opportunities that they have been given. I do not want to see them disappear of fade away from WRC...

[tolis]

It seems that Ketomma will also do Rally Argentina.

http://www.rallyargentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Listado-inscriptos-RA-20129.pdf

[Plan9]

That's something at least. Let's hope the DMack's do not shred beneath him on this event.

[A.F.F.]

Yes, I know the conditions were awful in Portugal. Yes, I know there were lots of problems with the car, first with ride height, then with engine and after that with brakes. But c'mon, one proper stage time !!! That's not too much to ask. I'm way disappointed :mark:

[pettersolberg29]

I'm disappointed but not surprised. As I said in the Rally Portugal thread, I've never really understood the hype behind him. During the off season I had a few people trying to persuade me he was a future Bosse but I couldn't believe it was the case. And for one of the only times in history I seem to have been proven right. On a similar level to Araujo so far, and that certainly isn't encouraging!

[A.F.F.]

I'm disappointed but not surprised. As I said in the Rally Portugal thread, I've never really understood the hype behind him. During the off season I had a few people trying to persuade me he was a future Bosse but I couldn't believe it was the case. And for one of the only times in history I seem to have been proven right. On a similar level to Araujo so far, and that certainly isn't encouraging!

Well, I'm surprised because he seem like a different man behind the wheel.

[pettersolberg29]

Well, I'm surprised because he seem like a different man behind the wheel.

I agree he seems like a different character, but I assume it's frustration at his inability to transfer his Finland and S2000 pace to a WRC car. Some drivers just aren't built for WRC cars - in Finland he'll be quick I'm sure, but it will take a lot of seasons and a lot of adapting for Ketomaa to get up to anything resembling competitive pace. And unfortunately time isn't on his side anymore.

[A.F.F.]

I agree he seems like a different character, but I assume it's frustration at his inability to transfer his Finland and S2000 pace to a WRC car. Some drivers just aren't built for WRC cars - in Finland he'll be quick I'm sure, but it will take a lot of seasons and a lot of adapting for Ketomaa to get up to anything resembling competitive pace. And unfortunately time isn't on his side anymore.

I'm afraid I can't disagree with anything you say :mark:

But I hope for the best.

[pettersolberg29]

Same. It would be nice to have another top quality driver even if only in a few select events a season. Now that Ostberg challenges for wins in Swede, would be nice if we had Ketomaa in Finland, possibly Tanak in GB or Sordo in Spain.

[N.O.T]

No future...

if his budget and sponsors allow he will be there...

none will waste money on ketomaa.

[pettersolberg29]

No future...

if his budget and sponsors allow he will be there...

none will waste money on ketomaa.

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of the main supporters of Ketomaa when the news of him in a WRC car came through? I'm not trying to catch you out, but just wondered why you think it's gone wrong and why your opinion has changed so quickly? Again, maybe I'm mistaken so apologies if you were of the same opinion as me.

[N.O.T]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of the main supporters of Ketomaa when the news of him in a WRC car came through? I'm not trying to catch you out, but just wondered why you think it's gone wrong and why your opinion has changed so quickly? Again, maybe I'm mistaken so apologies if you were of the same opinion as me.

I was a supporter of many drivers who didn't make it and have no future...Atko, Meeke, Gardemeister, Kresta are some of them...when ketomaa got his chance i liked it but he failed miserably unfortunatelly

Actually i want every driver who tries his luck in the WRC to be able to shine..the more top drivers we have the better...

When you support someone and have hopes doesn't mean you should be blind and not make any negative comments if they deserve them... Ketomaa was sweeping everyone including hanninen in s2000s so my hopes had a basis... Ketomaa is for sure no tourist and if he stays by paying i would have no problems with it.

that is the difference between humans and myself.

[Francis44]

I feel like Ketomma is a bit of an wasted talent. If he started among the big boys earlier perhaps he could be something. It must be too difficult for him to match the likes of Ostberg or Tannak, some of these guys are already in their third or fourth entry in most of the rally's (Ostberg has been doing most rally's of the calendar for 3 or 4 years in a WRC car). For what I have seen in Portugal he lacks than extra bit of confidence which allows some to go flatout in those tricky places. It's not like he doesn't have the courage to, but it feels like he misses the knowledge to do that.

[N.O.T]

Gronholm started around the same age as ketomaa.

[Francis44]

Gronholm started around the same age as ketomaa.

Ok but we know we will not have another Gronholm for some years. Despite missing the knowledge Gronholm always tried to go as fast as possible from the beggining and we know what what expense.... a considerable pile of wrecked rally cars.

Plus Marcus had official support from very early in his career, and that must make a difference. I can't imagine what damage a wrecked car can have on a privateer budget.

[N.O.T]

Ok but we know we will not have another Gronholm for some years. Despite missing the knowledge Gronholm always tried to go as fast as possible from the beggining and we know what what expense.... a considerable pile of wrecked rally cars.

Plus Marcus had official support from very early in his career, and that must make a difference. I can't imagine what damage a wrecked car can have on a privateer budget.


well i think in the case of those that rent the cars they do not pat anything if the car goes to waste...insurance companies pay i think...if the car is bought then its anther story.

about gronholm you were right and 10 years back finacially things were far better for the wrc in general.

[Barreis]

Ketomaa doesn't have Veronica by his side. :D

[pettersolberg29]

I was a supporter of many drivers who didn't make it and have no future...Atko, Meeke, Gardemeister, Kresta are some of them...when ketomaa got his chance i liked it but he failed miserably unfortunatelly

Actually i want every driver who tries his luck in the WRC to be able to shine..the more top drivers we have the better...

When you support someone and have hopes doesn't mean you should be blind and not make any negative comments if they deserve them... Ketomaa was sweeping everyone including hanninen in s2000s so my hopes had a basis... Ketomaa is for sure no tourist and if he stays by paying i would have no problems with it.

that is the difference between humans and myself.

Fair points, but to go from 'he's a potential star' to 'no future' in like 4 rallies is quite drastic. I support Petter, but it doesn't mean he is guarded from criticism - when he crashed in Portugal I was the first to crticise him for being reckless! But if I believe he is still able to win rallies that doesn't change after 4 bad events.

[A.F.F.]

Plus Marcus had official support from very early in his career, and that must make a difference. I can't imagine what damage a wrecked car can have on a privateer budget.






Really? Are 100% certain of that?

[Francis44]

Really? Are 100% certain of that?

Im quite sure yes, Marcus didn't set much foot in the WRC without official support, outside of the World Championship I do not know.

[N.O.T]

Really? Are 100% certain of that?

well in finland he used his own cars i guess but in portugal 99 he used an official mitsubishi and in 2000 his peugeot days started...

[A.F.F.]

Im quite sure yes, Marcus didn't set much foot in the WRC without official support, outside of the World Championship I do not know.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Because before entering to WRC, Marcus gave his farm for rent to finance his rallying career at the age of 29. He didn't have a manager until he got offers from Ford and Peugeot. That was year later and basicly because he set so many fastest stage times in Rally Finland 1998. He got support from Robert Gröndahl who had worked with Toyota but apart from that, he was pretty much with his own gang.

[A.F.F.]

well in finland he used his own cars i guess but in portugal 99 he used an official mitsubishi and in 2000 his peugeot days started...

He already got a contract with Peugeot when he drove Mitsubishi. He also drove one rally for Seat that year and it was all cool with Corrado Provera. He wanted and let Marcus drive those cars so Peugeot could use all the info they got.

[Francis44]

What exactly do you mean by that?

I was just trying to say almost everytime Marcus entered a WRC rally he had official support thus good cars, and was free to push.

Ofcourse before that I trust that he had difficult times and had to try very hard like everyone else eager to reach the top.

[Barreis]

well in finland he used his own cars i guess but in portugal 99 he used an official mitsubishi and in 2000 his peugeot days started...

I thought he drove peugeot from 1999.

[A.F.F.]

I thought he drove peugeot from 1999.

He did. Peugeot entered only few rallyes first year, four if I recall right. In rallyes between Marcus was allowed to drive for Mitsubishi and Seat single events under a Peugeot contract.

[A.F.F.]

I was just trying to say almost everytime Marcus entered a WRC rally he had official support thus good cars, and was free to push.


Well, it's how you look at it really. Those were single try-outs, at rally Finland. One shot every year.

[A.F.F.]

But if I go back to topic, about Ketomaa, I have a feeling that his results so far has not satisfied Mr. Harkimo. I don't know the guy but I've understood that he won't be bothered for long if success won't follow.

[pettersolberg29]

Well Ketomaa has already been replaced for Rally Argentina by Prokop so people are possibly losing patience already?

[A.F.F.]

Well Ketomaa has already been replaced for Rally Argentina by Prokop so people are possibly losing patience already?

I didn't know there were a relations with their contracts? :eek:

[Francis44]

I dont think teher are relations between both. Perhaps just Dmack looking to expand their brand in the sport and Prokop surely could use the extra support.

[Plan9]

I'm disappointed but not surprised. As I said in the Rally Portugal thread, I've never really understood the hype behind him. During the off season I had a few people trying to persuade me he was a future Bosse but I couldn't believe it was the case. And for one of the only times in history I seem to have been proven right. On a similar level to Araujo so far, and that certainly isn't encouraging!

I think he had moments of excellence. Rally NZ 2010 was fantastic for him and probably a career highlight for him. I have seen him do the odd APRC and Chinese event and he was not quite as amazing in them. I think it is about the benjamins more than anything else; a good car could make all the difference.

[Juha_Koo]

so people are possibly losing patience already?

I would say that is total BS. He just signed some new (imo good) sponsor deals last week. He has never denied that breaking into the WRC would be difficult.

Unfortunately driver is just as good as his most last rally.

[pettersolberg29]

I would say that is total BS. He just signed some new (imo good) sponsor deals last week. He has never denied that breaking into the WRC would be difficult.

Unfortunately driver is just as good as his most last rally.

No need to be aggressive, but it is possible that some people are losing patience. Yeah he has new sponsors but Nobre has sponsors - doesn't mean he's quick. And he has said he expects podiums before and is nowhere near so he is obviously disappointed in his own performance too.

[RAS007]

I am not that familiar with the Ketomaa situation, but who is running the car? Someone mentioned something in the Portugal thread about Ketomaa's team appearing clueless about setup etc. Could it be a combination of bad set up and worse tires?

[A.F.F.]

What comes to Portugal, a lot can be explained of bad set up but he was driving with Michelin. First the car height was wrong, it was understeering a lot. Then he was running with three sylinders and didn't know how much it had damaged the engine. Then he again had problems with height, rear this time. And when he finally got his car driveable, he lost rear brakes. SO he pretty much nursed the car home.... still, maybe I'm totally out of line but I'm hoping at least one top stage-time :mark:

[Juha_Koo]

I am not that familiar with the Ketomaa situation, but who is running the car? Someone mentioned something in the Portugal thread about Ketomaa's team appearing clueless about setup etc. Could it be a combination of bad set up and worse tires?

For sure the setup was a total failure. Autotek Motorsport is running the car.

[vkangas]

I am not that familiar with the Ketomaa situation, but who is running the car? Someone mentioned something in the Portugal thread about Ketomaa's team appearing clueless about setup etc. Could it be a combination of bad set up and worse tires?
That was me. Yes, Ketomaa's car setup was a complete mess. I have had a (maybe childish...) believe that Ford's privateer's have access to Factory team basic setup info but that seems not to be the case always. Maybe Anthony could provide light on this?

Ketomaa is a well respected for his car setup skills and he managed to get it much better during the weekend and setting much better times.

50% of me is really disappointed but still 50% of me wants to see what he can do with proper setup and without problems.