Striking Public Sector 30th Nov

[Bolton Midnight]

BBC News - Teachers in NASUWT vote for strike over pensions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15791167)

Scary that teachers can be so dumb they can't see how much better off they are than those in the private sector.

High time they felt some of the pain that the private sector (who funds the public sector when all said and done) has been feeling.

I'd love a pay freeze, lazy parasites.

Hope they enjoy their Christmas shopping break and spent big in the private sector stores.

[MrMetro]

Hey Bolton, do you think they are all left wingers and read the Guardian?

[ArrowsFA1]

....they can't see how much better off they are than those in the private sector...
Could you please provide something to back up that claim. How poorly off are teachers in the private sector?

[Bolton Midnight]

Could you please provide something to back up that claim. How poorly off are teachers in the private sector?

State pensions > private pensions

FACT

deal with it.

Guardian should refund the taxpayer for all the public sector job adverts it has had since 97, no wonder it is so biased - don't bite the hand and all that.

[ArrowsFA1]

State pensions > private pensions
So a nurse in the public sector is better off in retirement when compared with the CEO of Vodaphone then?

[Bolton Midnight]

So a nurse in the public sector is better off in retirement when compared with the CEO of Vodaphone then?

You're being silly/stupid - not sure which, like for like of course. Teachers pensions > than similar paid private sector workers.

Any teacher that claims otherwise needs sacking as they are clearly too thick to teach kids.

[ArrowsFA1]

...like for like of course...
Thanks. Always better to avoid sweeping generalisations :)

Which all brings us back to the question posed & evaded not so very long ago:

How poorly off are teachers in the private sector? Or, other similarly paid private sector workers...in the city perhaps?

[Bolton Midnight]

Reform of teachers' pensions is fair. Unsurprisingly, the ultra-Left don't see it that way (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilobrien1/100094388/reform-of-teachers-pensions-is-fair-unsurprisingly-the-ultra-left-dont-see-it-that-way/)

'Improved' public sector pensions deal put on table to head off national strike | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2056448/Improved-public-sector-pensions-deal-table-head-national-strike.html)

The real truth about public sector pensions - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/8870505/The-real-truth-about-public-sector-pensions.html)

Public sector pensions: Millions to strike as unions reject £50bn deal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056857/Public-sector-pensions-Millions-strike-unions-reject-50bn-deal.html)

Millions of public sector workers poised to strike despite gold-plated pensions deal - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/8866163/Millions-of-public-sector-workers-poised-to-strike-despite-gold-plated-pensions-deal.html)

Gold-plated public sector pensions would cost private staff a third of their salary | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053951/Gold-plated-public-sector-pensions-cost-private-staff-salary.html)

Have you any more daft clueless posts?

[ArrowsFA1]

Have you any more daft clueless posts?
No, I think we've seen enough.

[Bolton Midnight]

http://blog.timesunion.com/tablehopping/files/2007/06/yawn.jpg

pathetic, like debating with a 7 year old, no that's you that is, I know you are

Have you grasped the pension thing yet, I'll assume you have hence why you can't reply with anything of any merit.

Owned.

[Knock-on]

Yet again Bolton, any merit to your argument gets lost with your predictably abrasive attitude.

What is the point on debating on one of these 'bun fight' threads which are only started to provoke abusive posts and responses.

All this rhetoric and low brow stereotyping offers no opportunity to hold a reasonable discussion.

It's just a waste of everyone's time.

[555-04Q2]

Eish. Pretty harsh there BM :down:

[Bolton Midnight]

Whatever

So these parasites are still going ahead with their blackmailing strikes even though they have been offered a far better deal than those in the private sector could only dream of.

Not sure why the coalition made such a generous offer in the first place. ID those striking and pop their P45s on their desk when they return from their 'crimbo shopping holiday'.

[Bolton Midnight]

Yet again Bolton, any merit to your argument gets lost with your predictably abrasive attitude.

What is the point on debating on one of these 'bun fight' threads which are only started to provoke abusive posts and responses.

All this rhetoric and low brow stereotyping offers no opportunity to hold a reasonable discussion.

It's just a waste of everyone's time.

ArrowsFA1 and henners88 like this.

So it is okay to post idiotic stuff as long as you are part of the clique is it?

Deal with the facts not personalities or just supporting your bum chums.

I want someone to justify the public sector's stance that they are allworth what they are paid and essential to the nation rather than jealously prattling on about the CEO of Vodafone.

If you can't then safe to say you know I am right.

[Dave B]

Yet again Bolton, any merit to your argument gets lost with your predictably abrasive attitude.

What is the point on debating on one of these 'bun fight' threads which are only started to provoke abusive posts and responses.

All this rhetoric and low brow stereotyping offers no opportunity to hold a reasonable discussion.

It's just a waste of everyone's time.

Agreed. I've tried debating with this indivudal on other threads but it's pointless. Evidence and experience is ignored in favour of conjecture and generalisation to the point where it's impossible to hold any kind of reasoned discourse.

[Bolton Midnight]

Agreed. I've tried debating with this indivudal on other threads but it's pointless. Evidence and experience is ignored in favour of conjecture and generalisation to the point where it's impossible to hold any kind of reasoned discourse.

No you haven't, your last post to me


Quite true. Many civilised countries regard a good education as an investment which can pay for itself many times over during a person's life if they are given the opportunity of going on to a productive career. Why we seem to be heading in the exact opposite direction is somewhat of a mystery.

Which is completely wrong as I pointed out, Mickey Mouse degrees bring nowt to society, it is just a means of keeping morons off the unemployment stats and making Liebour feel good about it's education policies.

You didn't bring any evidence whatsoever.

Oh and it is 'individual' - top tip when trying to appear all superior best try and spell correctly.

[Dave B]

Oh and it is 'individual' - top tip when trying to appear all superior best try and spell correctly.
Is that what your standard of debate has stooped to: attacking a minor typo? It would be churlish of me to point out the numerous grammatical errors in your posts, of course :rolleyes:

[Bolton Midnight]

And of course we side step having your arse handed to you on a plate re pointless university courses, oh yes I noticed that (again).

[Dave B]

And of course we side step having your arse handed to you on a plate re pointless university courses, oh yes I noticed that (again).

I was unaware that you giving your opinion on "Mickey Mouse" degrees, without any underlying data, counted as handing someone's arse to them.

As I've said before, I'll quite happily listen to your opinion on pretty much anything as it's always good to debate, but you constantly confuse opinion with fact thus making reasonable discourse all but impossible.

[Bolton Midnight]

Yet more slaver

Okay, fuzzy felt version for the hard of understanding

What benefit does peace studies give to the taxpayer funding it?

And yet again, for the hard of understanding

Justify why public sector types should strike re pension plans despite having far better pensions than those who pay their wages.

No more dribble, show me you do have an opinion on the subject and aren't just trolling.

[Knock-on]

ArrowsFA1 and henners88 like this.

So it is okay to post idiotic stuff as long as you are part of the clique is it?

Deal with the facts not personalities or just supporting your bum chums.

I want someone to justify the public sector's stance that they are allworth what they are paid and essential to the nation rather than jealously prattling on about the CEO of Vodafone.

If you can't then safe to say you know I am right.

If you could see past that chip on your shoulder, and bother reading my posts in the past, you might possibly deduce that I am usually critical of the public sector and usually at odds with members such as Dave, Arrows Ben etc on these types of debates. In fact, I am usually the token right wing, Daily Mail reading voice of reason on these hallowed boards :laugh:

However, the way you vociferously attack others views and make emotive statements that are impossible to substantiate (i.e. 'prove ALL workers are worth what they are paid'), means that it's impossible to save threads or pull them back to the facts and debate them with logic, reason and dare I say it; respect?

It's just playground stuff isn't it?

I won't address your point about my alleged sexual relationship with these members any further other than to suggest we don't sink further than where we are already. If anything undermines your arguments further than you have already, it's comments like this.

[Dave B]

No more dribble, show me you do have an opinion on the subject and aren't just trolling.

I can't be bothered, I'm afraid. Go ahead and take that as some sort of victory if you so wish, but I'm done for today.

[Bolton Midnight]

it's impossible to save threads or pull them back to the facts and debate them with logic, reason and dare I say it; respect?

If I state my opinion, then it is up to the others to prove it wrong if they can with facts, constantly just demanding links from the Guardian to show what I think is so is pointless, but the norm it would appear.


I'm done for today.

Not just today, you were finished from the start

[Knock-on]

If I state my opinion, then it is up to the others to prove it wrong if they can with facts, constantly just demanding links from the Guardian to show what I think is so is pointless, but the norm it would appear.


OK, fair enough. BUT, if you could reduce your posts to thus:



What benefit does peace studies give to the taxpayer funding it?

Justify why public sector types should strike re pension plans despite having far better pensions than those who pay their wages.



Then I think we might get some interesting debate on here.

For the record, I agree with your questions (albeit rather abridged) and would like to see a response but unless it's done without all the rest of the nonsense, then we wont get anywhere.

I would like to understand why the public sector workers feel the need to strike while the economy is in such a mess and people in the public sector are suffering so badly. Where is the money coming from and who is going to suffer?

Also, as has been announced, Universities are cutting out a lot of what I would call 'wishy-washy' courses. Does anyone think this is a negative move and why?

Who knows, we might get this thread back on course even now ;)

[Bolton Midnight]

I doubt it, have tried that in the past, it didn't work.

Just lots of 'prove it with a link not from Telegraph, Conservatives, TPA, Daily Wail etc - well anything other than the Guardian' crap. I've already posted link after link re the imbalance of public sector pensions and nobody has attempted to comment on the facts just the usual drivel from the trolls/clique.

[Bolton Midnight]

BBC News - Kent County Council boss leaves with £400,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-16109206)

utter madness

Clarkson has the right idea

[SGWilko]

BBC News - Kent County Council boss leaves with £400,000 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-16109206)

utter madness

Clarkson has the right idea

Oh well, the potholes near me wont get sorted for a bit longer then!!!!

[Bolton Midnight]

They wouldn't be fixing potholes anyhow, too busy check the diversity of their over paid and under worked work force to be wasting time fixing roads, emptying bins and the like.

[ArrowsFA1]

...over paid and under worked work force...
Please provide us with factual evidence to back up this claim.

[BDunnell]

Yet more slaver

Okay, fuzzy felt version for the hard of understanding

What benefit does peace studies give to the taxpayer funding it?

And yet again, for the hard of understanding

Justify why public sector types should strike re pension plans despite having far better pensions than those who pay their wages.

No more dribble, show me you do have an opinion on the subject and aren't just trolling.

How can your poorly punctuated, badly spelt rants be classed as anything other than 'dribble'? Forgive me for saying so, but the contributions of numerous non-native English speakers on these forums are more eloquent than your own.

Come to that, I find it extremely hard, given the standards of English you display on here, to imagine how someone such as yourself could make a decent contribution to the world of work in any way, yet on you go with the notion that all who work in the public sector are automatically inferior. Quite ironic.

[Bolton Midnight]

Please provide us with factual evidence to back up this claim.

look up all the proof you'll ever need and it isn't from the Telegraph, Mail or TPA it is from that bastion of left wingers the beeb.

[Bolton Midnight]

yet on you go with the notion that all who work in the public sector are automatically inferior.

no I don't, we need nurses, bin men, coppers, doctors and the like we do not need and never have needed 5 a day co-ordinators, diversity out reach managers, more managers in the health service than doctors etc etc etc

Which bit of that do you not understand?

[BDunnell]

no I don't, we need nurses, bin men, coppers, doctors and the like we do not need and never have needed 5 a day co-ordinators, diversity out reach managers, more managers in the health service than doctors etc etc etc

Which bit of that do you not understand?

You haven't answered most of my point, namely that your standards of English as demonstrated here are so poor as to demonstrate to me that you could, unlike many of those individuals you condemn, make little contribution to any organisation.

[Bolton Midnight]

You haven't answered most of my point, namely that your standards of English as demonstrated here are so poor as to demonstrate to me that you could, unlike many of those individuals you condemn, make little contribution to any organisation.

Answer the question please oh brainy one, do we need these made up non jobs?

My English is fine, better than most on here, odd how you don't pick up on that with anyone other than me. Not to mention you never go for specifics.

But doesn't really matter what you think as I do have a good job and one that requires intelligence, what do you do oh brainy one. Oh and feel free to pop a bag on your head 9see other post - no car involved so in your uber intelligent world all wil be fine).

[BDunnell]

My English is fine, better than most on here, odd how you don't pick up on that with anyone other than me. .

No it's not, and yes I do.

[Bolton Midnight]

do we need these made up non jobs?

answer the question

[BDunnell]

do we need these made up non jobs?

answer the question

I don't know. I don't know what they all do. It may be that, beyond the job title that you happen to find stupid and pointless, they do most worthwhile work. Unless you have taken the trouble to find out, you can't claim anything different.

[MrMetro]

do we need these made up non jobs?

answer the question

No probably not, but you shouldn't get so worked up about it.

[BDunnell]

In fact, maybe Bolton Midnight might like to tell us what his job title is, so we can offer a view as to whether his line of work is worthwhile.

[Bolton Midnight]

Grand you don't know, so shut up and you'll learn something.

What do you think a 5 a day co-ordinator does FFS? Empty bins, lend books out, cut grass in parks, arrest rapists, mend broken bones etc ?


They are made up jobs, they were not needed pre 97 it was just a means of a) buying votes b) keeping unemployment figures down c) jobs for those who had attained worthless degrees from former polys and d) increasing the size of the state which Labour always does as it loves to interfere in things that don't concern it.

[Bolton Midnight]

No probably not, but you shouldn't get so worked up about it.

I do get worked up about it as I pay for it!

[Bolton Midnight]

In fact, maybe Bolton Midnight might like to tell us what his job title is, so we can offer a view as to whether his line of work is worthwhile.

Nahh Mr Stalker sorry, have you popped that bag on your head yet, clearly not.

Guess that is just yet another example of you not knowing what you're on about.

[BDunnell]

Grand you don't know, so shut up and you'll learn something.

What do you think a 5 a day co-ordinator does FFS? Empty bins, lend books out, cut grass in parks, arrest rapists, mend broken bones etc ?


They are made up jobs, they were not needed pre 97 it was just a means of a) buying votes b) keeping unemployment figures down c) jobs for those who had attained worthless degrees from former polys and d) increasing the size of the state which Labour always does as it loves to interfere in things that don't concern it.

I am not learning anything from your contributions. You have told me nothing about what these people do, because you have no idea yourself beyond having read that these jobs exist and made up your mind that they are stupid.

Also, I note your dig at the former polys. Did you attend university? If so, (a) I'm afraid I won't believe you, and (b) I take it it wasn't a former poly?

[BDunnell]

Nahh Mr Stalker sorry, have you popped that bag on your head yet, clearly not.

Guess that is just yet another example of you not knowing what you're on about.

So it is OK for you to suggest that other people have pointless jobs, yet you are not willing to offer your job title to us, in order for us to decide whether yours is similarly pointless?

[Bolton Midnight]

I am not learning anything from your contributions. You have told me nothing about what these people do, because you have no idea yourself beyond having read that these jobs exist and made up your mind that they are stupid.

Also, I note your dig at the former polys. Did you attend university? If so, (a) I'm afraid I won't believe you, and (b) I take it it wasn't a former poly?

They don't do anything, that is the whole point doh

So what
No it was not

[Bolton Midnight]

So it is OK for you to suggest that other people have pointless jobs, yet you are not willing to offer your job title to us, in order for us to decide whether yours is similarly pointless?

The national health service pays me to do part of my job so they must think it is worthwhile

NHS > you

the end

What do you do for work, do you even work?

[BDunnell]

No it was not

No, because the university you claim to have attended is entirely in your mind. I refuse to believe — and I say this not insultingly, but factually — that someone demonstrating the intellectual abilities, especially in terms of English usage, that you show here would have been given a university place. The fact that, as expressed elsewhere, you believe your English to be 'fine' says a lot. This has nothing to do with my disagreement with your views; there are other people with whom I often also disagree whose level of education I would never doubt.

[BDunnell]

What do you do for work, do you even work?

Editor.

[Bolton Midnight]

No, because the university you claim to have attended is entirely in your mind. I refuse to believe — and I say this not insultingly, but factually — that someone demonstrating the intellectual abilities, especially in terms of English usage, that you show here would have been given a university place. The fact that, as expressed elsewhere, you believe your English to be 'fine' says a lot. This has nothing to do with my disagreement with your views; there are other people with whom I often also disagree whose level of education I would never doubt.

Fine, but as usual you are wrong. You can not do my job without formal qualifications, like most professions.

What I write in here doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. besides you keep on saying my English is so bad but only once have you said anything specific and that was picking up on a typo, the last resort I usually find in these situations.

Besides Unis will have any moron these days, thanks to Blair's 50% daft target, even you'd get in.

[Bolton Midnight]

Editor.

Of what? Parish Magazine, Socialist News, But plugs bi monthly?

Can't be anything too heavy weight as you have shown time and time again you're a bit clueless.

[BDunnell]

What I write in here doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. besides you keep on saying my English is so bad but only once have you said anything specific and that was picking up on a typo, the last resort I usually find in these situations.

It's the general tone of all your posts, which is — no matter what you might think — not one of intelligence, combined with the lack of proper punctuation and the frequent typos. There, for example, you have started a sentence without a capital letter. You simply do not come across as someone with a higher education qualification.

And quite how you, of all people, can make any comments about how universities now let 'any moron' in is quite stunning.

[Bolton Midnight]

It's the general tone of all your posts, which is — no matter what you might think — not one of intelligence, combined with the lack of proper punctuation and the frequent typos. There, for example, you have started a sentence without a capital letter. You simply do not come across as someone with a higher education qualification.

And quite how you, of all people, can make any comments about how universities now let 'any moron' in is quite stunning.

Yet it is you who is unable to challenge anything I say, odd that isn't it if I'm so thick?

My keyboard adds it's own typos it's knackered. But like I've already said, I don't take time over typing and unlike you I don't work in a typing pool.

they do (see look at that I pressed shift t and it is still lower case, I'll leave it though as typos seem to give you a false sense of superiority and I'm nice like that don't want you wetting the bed again) let in anybody, industry has been complaining about the gaps in graduate's education for some time now and it got a lot worse under Labour.

Do you employ anyone at Butt Plugs Bi-monthly, if you do you'll know yourself standards have plummeted.

[BDunnell]

Do you employ anyone at Butt Plugs Bi-monthly, if you do you'll know yourself standards have plummeted.

Standards of English have fallen. You are a perfect example of this. Again, I honestly say that not out of a wish to insult you — it is a simple statement of fact.

[Bolton Midnight]

Standards of English have fallen. You are a perfect example of this. Again, I honestly say that not out of a wish to insult you — it is a simple statement of fact.

On here maybe that's because this is not important, you are not somebody that matters (doctor, patient, someone who is going to give me money are you?) Yet again be more specific I want you to be my spell checker seeing as you won't prove your carbon monoxide theory. It'll give you something to do with your worthless life.

Not just English, it is across the whole spectrum. Exams have got easier, entrance criteria dropped no way standards could be better with those factors.

Anyroad enough of this dross - public sector strike
what did it achieve - sod all just miffed a few folk who pay their wages/pensions

lazy greedy thick parasites

[ArrowsFA1]

lazy greedy thick parasites

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/13/article-0-0797080D000005DC-304_233x446.jpg

How bankers destroy £7 for every £1 they create: Hospital cleaners are more valuable to society, say researchers | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235576/How-bankers-destroy-7-1-create-Hospital-cleaners-valuable-society-say-researchers.html)

[Bolton Midnight]

hospital cleaners are paid just £6.26 an hour but help society by making sure infections do not spread

Not doing a right good job are they? MRSA anyone?

Utter tosh.

Bankers pay tax which funds all these non jobs - Bankers > Diversity Out Reach Managers - FACT

[Dave B]

hospital cleaners are paid just £6.26 an hour but help society by making sure infections do not spread

Not doing a right good job are they? MRSA anyone?

Utter tosh.
For someone who claims to work in the health industry you do have a tenuous grasp of facts - to say the least. Cleaners cannot by their nature stop the spread of infectious disease, but they can drastically reduce the risks. Being a hospital cleaner isn't a matter of grabbing a mop and bucket, there's a huge amount to be learned about infection control and (brace yourself) H&S legislation. Don't forget that even a £6.26p/h cleaner will pay basic rate tax, and pay 20% VAT on the majority of their purchases.

I would never play the "banker = evil" card so beloved of some, becuase it over-simplifies a far more complex situation. I genuinely fail to understand why you have such a problem with the public sector as a whole. I don't think anybody has ever claimed there's no room for efficiencies and savings, but your ideologically driven slash and burn approach is simply madness.

[Bolton Midnight]

The italics are not my words, they are from the Daily Wail, it was them that were claiming cleaners eradicate the likes of MRSA.

No they do not pay tax, it is merely an adjustment, if I gave you £30 and you gave me £10 back you are still £20 up and I'm still £20 down. A lot to be said for cutting public sector pay across the board by 40% and not bothering with income tax at all, added benefit is Inland Revenue could lay off a load of staff too.

Bloodbath budget is the only way out of this mess created by bankers and Labour. The private sector has shrunk so the state must follow suit. There's no money left to pay people to do non essential work. Only way the private sector can have tax cuts is to cut from the far too large state and tax cuts for the private sector will get the economy back on its feet.

Simple as that.

[Bolton Midnight]

From what I can make out the Teachers Union is saying pension reforms going ahead (which is good) even though negotiations are still on going??

But high time public sector pension reforms happened after all Economic genius Gordo Brown started it

Brown's raid on pensions costs Britain £100 billion - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1531448/Browns-raid-on-pensions-costs-Britain-100-billion.html)

[ArrowsFA1]

The italics are not my words, they are from the Daily Wail, it was them that were claiming cleaners eradicate the likes of MRSA.
It's come to something when I'm defending the Daily Mail :laugh: but what they actually said was that clearners make sure infections do not spread. As Dave said, they reduce the risks. They don't eradicate the likes of MRSA.


No they do not pay tax, it is merely an adjustment, if I gave you £30 and you gave me £10 back you are still £20 up and I'm still £20 down.
An employer pays the employee a salary, the employee is taxed = taxpayer.

Simple as that.


Bloodbath budget is the only way out of this mess created by bankers and Labour. The private sector has shrunk so the state must follow suit. There's no money left to pay people to do non essential work. Only way the private sector can have tax cuts is to cut from the far too large state and tax cuts for the private sector will get the economy back on its feet.
The old trickle down theory. Works a treat that does.

[Bolton Midnight]

It's come to something when I'm defending the Daily Mail :laugh: but what they actually said was that clearners make sure infections do not spread. As Dave said, they reduce the risks. They don't eradicate the likes of MRSA.


An employer pays the employee a salary, the employee is taxed = taxpayer.

Simple as that.


The old trickle down theory. Works a treat that does.

Seems they don't prevent the spread though, wonder if a hospital with a MRSA outbreak sack their cleaners?

The taxpayer pays their wages and then gets their tax back, the public sector employee does NOT pay income tax.

Only way economy is going to be mended is by folk going out buying stuff, only way that is going to happen is if they have more money in their pockets so has to come from tax cuts.

[SGWilko]

Seems they don't prevent the spread though, wonder if a hospital with a MRSA outbreak sack their cleaners?

The taxpayer pays their wages and then gets their tax back, the public sector employee does NOT pay income tax.

Only way economy is going to be mended is by folk going out buying stuff, only way that is going to happen is if they have more money in their pockets so has to come from tax cuts.

Maybe there are not enough cleaners to cover the entire hospital adequately?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Bolton Midnight has about 30 posts in the thread (about 1/2). Interesting.

[Dave B]

If only they were...

[MrMetro]

Perhaps Bolton should tell us what his job is. No Bolton, I'm not going to stalk you, I'm just interested, after all you have quite a strong opinion of other job roles.

[Bolton Midnight]

Maybe there are not enough cleaners doing their job adequately?

efa


Bolton Midnight has about 30 posts in the thread (about 1/2). Interesting.

Not my fault some have a vested interest so refuse to accept what is plain to see, is it?

[Bolton Midnight]

Perhaps Bolton should tell us what his job is. No Bolton, I'm not going to stalk you, I'm just interested, after all you have quite a strong opinion of other job roles.

Take your pick

Non-job of the week | Burning Our Money | The TaxPayers' Alliance (http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/waste/2011/12/nonjob-week-49.html)

[Bolton Midnight]

That shouldn't come into it, not everyone shares the same opinion regardless of how many times its repeated. Opinions are a wonderful thing.

Only logically explanation why some would be happy with their taxes being squandered, they benefit from it!

Do you?

Of course they are entitled to their opinions, no matter how wrong they are. And they are very wrong but as I said they must benefit directly or indirectly from the public sector being over paid and under worked.

[MrMetro]

Take your pick

Non-job of the week | Burning Our Money | The TaxPayers' Alliance (http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/waste/2011/12/nonjob-week-49.html)

And your job is?

[ArrowsFA1]

The taxpayer pays their wages and then gets their tax back, the public sector employee does NOT pay income tax.
The fact is that public sector employees do pay income tax in exactly the same way as private sector employees pay tax as HM Revenue & Customs would confirm.


...the public sector being over paid and under worked.
Once again please provide us with factual evidence to back up this claim.

n.b. a job title is not evidence

[BDunnell]

That shouldn't come into it, not everyone shares the same opinion regardless of how many times its repeated. Opinions are a wonderful thing.

Facts and evidence are even better. I would have imagined that someone who claims to have attended a good university would have the gumption to do better than merely believe what they read in their chosen media.

[Bolton Midnight]

And your job is?

As I said take your pick, I'm not really that fussed which over paid non job you pick.


The fact is that public sector employees do pay income tax in exactly the same way as private sector employees pay tax as HM Revenue & Customs would confirm.

Once again please provide us with factual evidence to back up this claim.

n.b. a job title is not evidence

No they don't, they just give some of their money back whence it came, they are still up on the whole deal and the taxpayer is down, it is not that difficult a concept to follow.

Already have done re the Beeb link, what would have been formerly a town clerk on circa 30k p.a. now on 6 fig salary with massive pay offs, obscene as they will do next to nowt.


Facts and evidence are even better. I would have imagined that someone who claims to have attended a good university would have the gumption to do better than merely believe what they read in their chosen media.

I've posted loads but you choose to ignore them because they don't suit your warped view of the world. I agree, I ignore pretty well everything in the Guardian because it is written for bed wetting liberals who struggled to pop their cherry.

[MrMetro]

I've posted loads but you choose to ignore them because they don't suit your warped view of the world. I agree, I ignore pretty well everything in the Guardian because it is written for bed wetting liberals who struggled to pop their cherry.

So you believe everything in the Torygraph instead...

[Bolton Midnight]

So you believe everything in the Torygraph instead...

Nahh I believe what I know to be true rather than links from interweb, you should try it sometime.

[MrMetro]

Nahh I believe what I know to be true rather than links from interweb, you should try it sometime.

I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

[ArrowsFA1]

Already have done re the Beeb link, what would have been formerly a town clerk on circa 30k p.a. now on 6 fig salary with massive pay offs, obscene as they will do next to nowt.
So on the basis on one council managing director receiving a £400,000 severance package you conclude that the public sector workforce as a whole is "over paid and under worked".

What compelling evidence :rolleyes:

[Dave B]

As it's nearly the end of the year, I would like to offer this gem as my nomination for "Quote of the Year":


Nahh I believe what I know to be true rather than links from interweb, you should try it sometime.

It sums up your entire debating ethos perfectly.

Happy Winterval :p

[Bolton Midnight]

I don't believe everything I read on the internet.

Good that is a step up from some of the dweebs in here who only believe it if the Guardian says it, they are unable to see past their phobia about such sources as TPA, Mail, Telegraph, BBC, Channel 4 well anything other than the Guardian in fact.

Losers.

[Bolton Midnight]

So on the basis on one council managing director receiving a £400,000 severance package you conclude that the public sector workforce as a whole is "over paid and under worked".

What compelling evidence :rolleyes:

1??

Plenty more than 1 here, can you not read?

Non-job of the week | Burning Our Money | The TaxPayers' Alliance (http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/waste/2011/12/nonjob-week-49.html)

besides I never said all of them just most.

[Robinho]

Seems they don't prevent the spread though, wonder if a hospital with a MRSA outbreak sack their cleaners?

The taxpayer pays their wages and then gets their tax back, the public sector employee does NOT pay income tax.

Only way economy is going to be mended is by folk going out buying stuff, only way that is going to happen is if they have more money in their pockets so has to come from tax cuts.

do you know how MRSA is carried and transmitted? its prevalent in many perfectly healthy people who enter hospitals and then infect the poorly people who have low immune systems and therefore makes them very ill. A lot of the time the source of the infection is from outside (hence why you are swabbed for traces of it before being admitted for operations and the like, and why everyone entering hospitals is supposed to use the anti-bac gel. So even if cleaners were able to "eradicate" all evidence of the infection, it only takes one staff, member of public or patient to re-introduce it.

[Bolton Midnight]

So they aren't really needed then and are not involved in the containment of MRSA, yipee we don't need as many sack em.

[BDunnell]

So they aren't really needed then and are not involved in the containment of MRSA, yipee we don't need as many sack em.

It is garbled, poorly-written, badly-argued statements like this that mark out the claims you make regarding your education as outright lies. The above is not a statement that would be made by a genuinely intelligent person.

[Dave B]

It is garbled, poorly-written, badly-argued statements like this that mark out the claims you make regarding your education as outright lies. The above is not a statement that would be made by a genuinely intelligent person.
Or, indeed, an 8 year old child.

[Bolton Midnight]

It is garbled, poorly-written, badly-argued statements like this that mark out the claims you make regarding your education as outright lies. The above is not a statement that would be made by a genuinely intelligent person.


Blah blah as you keep on saying - totally off topic and very dull, shows a certain lack of wit too. Were you bullied at school? What makes you so incredibly dull? Struggle with members of the opposite sex, wet the bed, no mates, are you ginger - not taking the mick am just interested in what is your malfunction?

[Bolton Midnight]

Or, indeed, an 8 year old child.

Agreed, 8 year olds don't pay income tax so aren't being robbed blind so they tend not to be too bothered about wasteful parasitical public servants.

[MrMetro]

Blah blah as you keep on saying - totally off topic and very dull, shows a certain lack of wit too. Were you bullied at school? What makes you so incredibly dull? Struggle with members of the opposite sex, wet the bed, no mates, are you ginger - not taking the mick am just interested in what is your malfunction?


When stumped, insert insult(s).

[Bolton Midnight]

When stumped, insert insult(s).

I'm not the one who is stumped, I've proved the public sector is over manned, over paid and has better pensions than private sector. Those who don't want to admit as much are the ones that are stumped, does that include you Mini Metro?

[MrMetro]

I'm not the one who is stumped, I've proved the public sector is over manned, over paid and has better pensions than private sector. Those who don't want to admit as much are the ones that are stumped, does that include you Mini Metro?

Nope.

[MrMetro]

And you still haven't told us what your wonderful all guns blazing job is.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm not the one who is stumped, I've proved the public sector is over manned, over paid and has better pensions than private sector.
The Taxpayers Alliance does not provide proof, just Daily Wail type headlines.

Meanwhile back in the land of reality:

..."heads of agreement" had been established on the respective pension schemes covering the NHS, the civil service, teachers and local government, with a commitment secured from "most unions to suspend any further industrial action" while the final details are resolved and unions are consulting their members.
Danny Alexander confirms agreements over public sector pension reforms | Politics | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/dec/20/danny-alexander-public-sector-pensions)

[Bolton Midnight]

And you still haven't told us what your wonderful all guns blazing job is.

Correct, just assume I'm one of these non jobs wanting to wreck the cushy number I have from within, happy now?

[Bolton Midnight]

The Taxpayers Alliance does not provide proof, just Daily Wail type headlines.

Meanwhile back in the land of reality:

Danny Alexander confirms agreements over public sector pension reforms | Politics | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/dec/20/danny-alexander-public-sector-pensions)

Telegraph has same story, so does that mean it isn't true?

Video: Danny Alexander: pensions deal is 'best possible' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/8968067/Danny-Alexander-pensions-deal-is-best-possible.html)

But yep long and short of it the strikes achieved sod all and was just usual militants biting the hand that feeds them, parasites!

[Bolton Midnight]

When people ask you for a link it isn't necessarily to criticize its origin

errr



The Taxpayers Alliance does not provide proof, just Daily Wail type headlines.

Fail, again!

[Bolton Midnight]

I think 'people' and 'necessarily' were the operative words in my explanation along with the line; "although we all have opinions on certain publications". Of course you think the Guardian is a terrible paper and will not engage sensibly with anyone who doesn't agree, and thats up to you. You're not getting anywhere on here my friend because people don't return respect that is not given in the first place. I'm sure its all a big laugh to you to wind people up on the internet and voice opinions you wouldn't dare when faced with real people, but nobody here really gives a damn what you think to be honest. I dip in and out of these threads and often wonder what certain keyboard warriors are like when not given the anonymity of a internet profile. Always entertaining though. :)

Guardian is very much part and parcel of the Nu Labour failure, the paper itself has profited massively from all the made up jobs it advertised.

I don't type anything I'd not say face to face to someone, esp bed wetting liberals. If anything I'm worse IRL as I can swear there too.

If you really didn't care you'd not reply, you couldn't ignore me if you tried, admit it.

[ArrowsFA1]

Fail, again!
Job titles in themselves are evidence of nothing whatsoever.

For example you may consider "Waste management & Disposal Technician" to be a "non-job" but it is in fact a bin man (link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7552252/The-top-ten-most-ridiculous-job-titles.html)). Is being a bin man a "non-job"? Are they "over paid and under worked"? Do they deserve your frequently expressed contempt?

Before you and the Taxpayers Alliance make a lot of noise you would do well to delve below the surface of a mere job title.

[BDunnell]

Job titles in themselves are evidence of nothing whatsoever.

For example you may consider "Waste management & Disposal Technician" to be a "non-job" but it is in fact a bin man (link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7552252/The-top-ten-most-ridiculous-job-titles.html)). Is being a bin man a "non-job"? Are they "over paid and under worked"? Do they deserve your frequently expressed contempt?

Before you and the Taxpayers Alliance make a lot of noise you would do well to delve below the surface of a mere job title.

But this would involve doing more than just passing a tabloid news item in front of one's eyes for two seconds, developing a sense of outrage and then banging on one's computer keyboard with one's nose or clenched fist, so how are any of us expected to follow your advice?

[anthonyvop]

Anyone employed in the Public Sector shouldn't be allowed to Unionize.

They are, after all, "Serving the People"

There...Problem Solved

[ArrowsFA1]

anthonyvop strikes another blow for freedom :p

[BDunnell]

anthonyvop strikes another blow for freedom :p

The point was made the other day that maybe, in future, we might enjoy the presence of a North Korean on the forum. I am actually convinced that anthonyvop is a Pyongyang 'sleeper' in disguise.

[Bolton Midnight]

Job titles in themselves are evidence of nothing whatsoever.

For example you may consider "Waste management & Disposal Technician" to be a "non-job" but it is in fact a bin man (link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7552252/The-top-ten-most-ridiculous-job-titles.html)). Is being a bin man a "non-job"? Are they "over paid and under worked"? Do they deserve your frequently expressed contempt?

Before you and the Taxpayers Alliance make a lot of noise you would do well to delve below the surface of a mere job title.

No I have already said bin men are needed. But yes they are over paid, min wage should be fine for what isn't a very taxing job. They currently get more than teachers for example, or do you feel that is right?

But feel free to go through that list of non jobs and let e know which jobs you feel are essential, should be a laugh!

[Bolton Midnight]

Anyone employed in the Public Sector shouldn't be allowed to Unionize.

They are, after all, "Serving the People"

There...Problem Solved

Abolish unions period - nobody will suffer and will save the taxpayer a fortune.

[BDunnell]

No I have already said bin men are needed. But yes they are over paid, min wage should be fine for what isn't a very taxing job. They currently get more than teachers for example, or do you feel that is right?

Evidence?

[Dave B]

A direct quote from a council member would suggest about £18K for a very physical job mainly on working highways in all weathers.



Sandwell Council’s cabinet member for safer neighbourhoods Cllr Derek Rowley said: “The binmen have been evaluated for single status and have been through a fair and robust appeals process. We’ve looked at all of the job elements very carefully as part of the evaluation and again during the appeal process.

“The salary for the binmen will be £17,800 and for a driver £21,500, which we feel are fair rates for these jobs


Read more: Furious binmen set to take strike action « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/06/09/furious-binmen-set-to-take-strike-action/#ixzz1hBGUqlSt[/quote)

[Bolton Midnight]

Evidence?

Birmingham binmen on strike were paid £45K a year | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346480/Birmingham-binmen-strike-paid-45K-year.html)

But you'll not agree as it is the Mail so bound not to be true, fat freaks can only see Guardian links it would appear.

[Bolton Midnight]

A direct quote from a council member would suggest about £18K for a very physical job mainly on working highways in all weathers.

No it is not, my 8 stone wife has no problem moving wheelie bins about.

And they are on a lot more than that, they could be lying or hadn't that crossed your mind, no course not!

[BDunnell]

Birmingham binmen on strike were paid £45K a year | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346480/Birmingham-binmen-strike-paid-45K-year.html)

But you'll not agree as it is the Mail so bound not to be true, fat freaks can only see Guardian links it would appear.

Ah yes, of course! Those figures must be true.

Now go away.

[Dave B]

Birmingham binmen on strike were paid £45K a year | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346480/Birmingham-binmen-strike-paid-45K-year.html)

But you'll not agree as it is the Mail so bound not to be true, fat freaks can only see Guardian links it would appear.

From your link:


The binmen earned a basic salary of between £24,000 and £26,000, but the crew’s wages rocketed due to time-and-a-half overtime payments and £4,000 bonuses.
So definately a case of poor resource management by the council, that's certainly an issue, but your own link fails to back up your claim that binmen are overpaid. Did you actually read beyond the headline before you posted it?

[ArrowsFA1]

Teaching salary scales - TDA (http://www.tda.gov.uk/get-into-teaching/salary/teaching-salary-scales.aspx)

[Bolton Midnight]

From your link:


So definately a case of poor resource management by the council, that's certainly an issue, but your own link fails to back up your claim that binmen are overpaid. Did you actually read beyond the headline before you posted it?

It is too high before overtime, it is the lowest of the low jobs and should be paid accordingly. At school if you mucked about you were threatened with 'you'll end up a binman' on 46k a year I bet loads wished they had, inc teachers as shown by Arrow's link!

[Bolton Midnight]

Now go away.

ahh diddums, don't cry, you go away

[BDunnell]

It is too high before overtime, it is the lowest of the low jobs and should be paid accordingly.

Such as?

[Dave B]

It is too high before overtime, it is the lowest of the low jobs and should be paid accordingly. At school if you mucked about you were threatened with 'you'll end up a binman' on 46k a year I bet loads wished they had, inc teachers as shown by Arrow's link!

So after all that to-ing and fro-ing we're back to it being your personal opinion rather than having any basis in fact. Superb.

[ArrowsFA1]

...it is the lowest of the low jobs...
In what sense?

[anthonyvop]

anthonyvop strikes another blow for freedom :p

How is that a blow for freedom.

The fact that somebody is forced to join a Union or worse, forced to negotiate with a Union is a real blow against freedom.

F.Y.I. A job isn't a right.

[BDunnell]

How is that a blow for freedom.

The fact that somebody is forced to join a Union or worse, forced to negotiate with a Union is a real blow against freedom.

Has the detection of irony always been your strong point?

[anthonyvop]

Has the detection of irony always been your strong point?


An employer has every right to set the rules of employment. The employee has the right to accept them or move on to another job. If the Government(The Employer) refuses to accept union representation nobody's rights are being violated. NOBODY!!! You can call me names or be all outraged(Something that Liberals tend to do a lot) but it doesn't change the fact!!!

[BDunnell]

An employer has every right to set the rules of employment. The employee has the right to accept them or move on to another job. If the Government(The Employer) refuses to accept union representation nobody's rights are being violated. NOBODY!!! You can call me names or be all outraged(Something that Liberals tend to do a lot) but it doesn't change the fact!!!

You don't get it, do you? Arrows was making what's known as 'a joke'.

[Dave B]

An employer has every right to set the rules of employment.
Actually, they don't. The law of the land will always over-rule any contractural terms, and an employer who attempts to hold an employee to unfair terms can expect to be taken to a tribunal (at least until the coalition strip away many of their rights and make an employee pay upfront for the pleasure).

[BDunnell]

Actually, they don't. The law of the land will always over-rule any contractural terms, and an employer who attempts to hold an employee to unfair terms can expect to be taken to a tribunal (at least until the coalition strip away many of their rights and make an employee pay upfront for the pleasure).

This will mean nothing to our friend, given that he believes it appropriate to override the laws of the land — say, those relating to the possession of firearms — if he alone feels they violate his freedoms.

[Dave B]

Touché!

[chuck34]

Actually, they don't. The law of the land will always over-rule any contractural terms, and an employer who attempts to hold an employee to unfair terms can expect to be taken to a tribunal (at least until the coalition strip away many of their rights and make an employee pay upfront for the pleasure).

Here in the US we have places that are "closed shop". Meaning that in order to work a particular job, one MUST be in a union. The first thing the union does is strip away many of the employee's rights (for their own good they are told by the union boss) and make the employee pay upfront for the pleasure in the form of union dues.

So the unions are just as corrupt as the employer, I suppose.

[BDunnell]

Here in the US we have places that are "closed shop". Meaning that in order to work a particular job, one MUST be in a union.

Now that, too, any sensible person would oppose. But a dislike of such practices is not confined to those who dislike unions per se.

[chuck34]

Now that, too, any sensible person would oppose. But a dislike of such practices is not confined to those who dislike unions per se.

I understand that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that both sides are corrupt.

[anthonyvop]

Actually, they don't. The law of the land will always over-rule any contractural terms, and an employer who attempts to hold an employee to unfair terms can expect to be taken to a tribunal (at least until the coalition strip away many of their rights and make an employee pay upfront for the pleasure).

Actually you are wrong. Various Countries have laws that restrict the basic freedoms such as the freedom of speech in the UK but that doesn't change the fact that in a free society nobody is FORCED to work under any terms, Unfair or otherwise. In a free society the worker has the choice to not work if they don't like the terms.

If your employer decided to cut your salary by 90% while doubling you work hours wouldn't you quit?

[Dave B]

Doubling the hours would put them in breach of the working time directive and thus be illegal; cutting pay by 90pc would them below the national minimum wage and thus be illegal. Law would over-ride T&Cs as I previously stated.

[driveace]

Come on Bolton,i enjoy your debates.And also agree there are far too many people employed in the public sector,and many who are paid far too much.In the economic climate we find ourselves in,we ALL have to tighten our belts,and put more in for less.The Leeds binmen work only 4 days a week ,then have 4 days off.The teachers at our local school are striking,because the school governers have voted for the school to become an Academy,and their strike is for the fact that,they (may) lose some pension rights.They were gathering 2 weeks ago for a protest walk throug the town centre,with their banners ,and leading the procession were the local union reps,and most of the Labour members of North Leeds.I can remember when the Labour government,were still in office of a school,where they were all flying off to Spain for a 3 day meeting,it got out into the papers,and the said school,then after trying to defend their decision to go to Spain,then cancelled the trip.Also i lived close to a family,who,s son went to Hull on one of those "Mickey Mouse " courses.At the end of the course he failed,and he failed his final exams for the next 2 years too.They met him and said,they did not wish him to stay another year so were giving him a pass.That was 15 years ago,and half of that period he has never worked,and when he has worked it has been 2 days a week,as a chef,in a rural cafe ran by his mother.

[BDunnell]

Various Countries have laws that restrict the basic freedoms such as the freedom of speech in the UK

Do offer some examples, given your greater knowledge of the British legal system than any of the Britons on here.

[BDunnell]

In the economic climate we find ourselves in,we ALL have to tighten our belts,and put more in for less.

Try telling that to those of us who already work as hard as we can.


The teachers at our local school are striking,because the school governers have voted for the school to become an Academy,and their strike is for the fact that,they (may) lose some pension rights.

If they are against it, quite right too. It was probably the only remaining way for them to object to something to which they object.


Also i lived close to a family,who,s son went to Hull on one of those "Mickey Mouse " courses.

I wouldn't go criticising the educational choices of others, if I were you, in a post demonstrating such poor English.

[anthonyvop]

Do offer some examples, given your greater knowledge of the British legal system than any of the Britons on here.

There is no Guaranteed freedom of speech in the UK...That is a fact. You cannot insult nor utter words that some government lackey says incites hate or racism...Or just be politically incorrect.

Geert Wilders​ and Michael Savage are just two cases in which one can view that lack of freedom of speech in the UK.

Then there is the curious case of Rowan Laxton who was found guilty of being anti-Israeli.

A warning for EKI. Your posts here can be cause for arrest in the UK

[BDunnell]

There is no Guaranteed freedom of speech in the UK...That is a fact. You cannot insult nor utter words that some government lackey says incites hate or racism...Or just be politically incorrect.

Rubbish. I come from the UK. I therefore know better than you. There is nothing I have ever wished to say that I have been unable to. And find me any piece of legislation that prevents people from being 'politically incorrect', whatever that phrase, only trotted out by the most tiresome individuals, means.

I do agree that Geert Wilders should not have been banned in the way that he was, though.

[anthonyvop]

Rubbish. I come from the UK. I therefore know better than you. There is nothing I have ever wished to say that I have been unable to. And find me any piece of legislation that prevents people from being 'politically incorrect', whatever that phrase, only trotted out by the most tiresome individuals, means.

Ask ROWAN LAXTON (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139249/High-ranking-Foreign-Office-diplomat-arrested-anti-Semitic-gym-tirade.html)

Or Simon Sheppard (http://threatened.globalvoicesonline.org/blogger/simon-sheppard)


I do agree that Geert Wilders should not have been banned in the way that he was, though.

Was there a better way to ban him?

[BDunnell]

Ask ROWAN LAXTON (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1139249/High-ranking-Foreign-Office-diplomat-arrested-anti-Semitic-gym-tirade.html)

Or Simon Sheppard (http://threatened.globalvoicesonline.org/blogger/simon-sheppard)



Was there a better way to ban him?

Not at all, clearly. You have misinterpreted my words.

As for the rest of your post, those individuals are utterly hateful.

[anthonyvop]

Not at all, clearly. You have misinterpreted my words.

As for the rest of your post, those individuals are utterly hateful.


Yep. They are despicable examples of human beings




But



I defend their right to spew their stupidity. For a government to suppress it is what CENSORSHIP is and proves that their is no Freedom of Speech in the UK. Only freedom of approved speech.

[Rollo]

For a government to suppress it is what CENSORSHIP is and proves that their is no Freedom of Speech in the UK. Only freedom of approved speech.

Schenck v. United States (1919)
Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969)

I also refer you to the famous racial case of Pot vs Kettle.

[anthonyvop]

Schenck v. United States (1919)

Has been all but struck down


Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969)

Backs up my claim....A person has to be inciting a lawless action not just be critical. Saying a particular religion is evil and should be done away with will net you no legal action from the government of the USA.


I also refer you to the famous racial case of Pot vs Kettle.


Ahhhh......A perfect example of how those with jealous hatred in their argument will fail to see the folly of their ideals.

Pot.....http://images.crateandbarrel.com/is/image/Crate/MarioBSoupPot3qtRedS10?$web_zoom$&extend=110,110,110,110




Kettle.....http://www.mightyleaf.com/resources/mightyleaf/images/products/processed/Chantal_Tea_Kettle.a.zoom.jpg


Next time try a little research before using an analogy

[Garry Walker]

Try telling that to those of us who already work as hard as we can.


Who would those be? You? Do you sometimes spend time posting on this forum when you are at work? Then what you said is complete BS, you obviously are not working as hard as you can.

[race aficionado]

Trying to find the correct words to express what I want to say but I just can't find the appropriate words....

[Bolton Midnight]

Come on Bolton,i enjoy your debates.And also agree there are far too many people employed in the public sector,and many who are paid far too much.In the economic climate we find ourselves in,we ALL have to tighten our belts,and put more in for less.The Leeds binmen work only 4 days a week ,then have 4 days off.The teachers at our local school are striking,because the school governers have voted for the school to become an Academy,and their strike is for the fact that,they (may) lose some pension rights.They were gathering 2 weeks ago for a protest walk throug the town centre,with their banners ,and leading the procession were the local union reps,and most of the Labour members of North Leeds.I can remember when the Labour government,were still in office of a school,where they were all flying off to Spain for a 3 day meeting,it got out into the papers,and the said school,then after trying to defend their decision to go to Spain,then cancelled the trip.Also i lived close to a family,who,s son went to Hull on one of those "Mickey Mouse " courses.At the end of the course he failed,and he failed his final exams for the next 2 years too.They met him and said,they did not wish him to stay another year so were giving him a pass.That was 15 years ago,and half of that period he has never worked,and when he has worked it has been 2 days a week,as a chef,in a rural cafe ran by his mother.

Hallelujah there is common sense on here after all!



If they are against it, quite right too. It was probably the only remaining way for them to object to something to which they object.

What they were forced to work there, I'd have thought that was against the law, isn't slavery illegal?

They are free to leave any time; if they don't like the heat best leave the kitchen FFS.


Who would those be? You? Do you sometimes spend time posting on this forum when you are at work? Then what you said is complete BS, you obviously are not working as hard as you can.

He only works at some plane spotters magazine so isn't going to be too taxing is it?

Besides he'll have loads of free time as bound to be single/friendless.