Ott Tänak - Future champion?

[pantealex]

I believe that every team wants Tänak but which are willing to pay enough ?

TGR probably offers more than enough money but how much less than that he is ready accept ?

[AnttiL]

I believe that every team wants Tänak but which are willing to pay enough ?

Citroen has Ogier and Lappi, Hyundai has Neuville and Loeb. I doubt they are willing to pay what Tänak wants. I think Tänak would be very happy to just continue with Toyota. Their service base is in Estonia and Tänak has his own business there with MM Motorsport. The car also seems to suit his driving, but it just keeps breaking. M-Sport would be further from his home and they couldn't probably offer the same salary as Toyota. It's a different question if his performance would be compromised in the Fiesta.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Chances to win the WDC dont last forever. If the Toyota's reliability stops him winning this year its a big call to sign up with them again when he could go elsewhere.

M-Sport is the obvious option, even if for just one year...

[Allez Andruet]

It's a two-horse race between M-Sport and TGR for Tänak. As mentioned on the earlier posts, Hyundai has Neuville and Citroen has Ogier. End of story.

What probably makes Tänak's decision easier, is that he knows both teams in and out by now. Ofcourse it's highly unlikely M-Sport could match TGR on the paycheck, but I don't think that will actually play too significant role here. The assumption is, that Tänak wants to win the title more than squeeze out the last million or so on the contract negotiations.

I guess he'll end up signing with the team he wants to win with the most. And based on
- his history with M-Sport
- his relationship with Malcolm
- the reliability issues with Yaris
I wouldn't be so sure it's Toyota. At the moment atleast.

[mknight]

Toyota without Tanak would have only a faint hope of the title.
Latvala in 2017 form could have a chance of title, but not really in 2018-2019 form (or 2016). Meeke's best champ results is 5th, also not without a reason. The only other multiple winner is Mikkelsen, but based on end of 2016 and also recent history, doesn't look like Tommi wants him. Even if he did he also hasn't shown he can charge for title.

As titles (both) are what Toyota is in for, this would be a big problem.

Msport without Tanak would still keep doing what they are doing, getting some decent results as PR with "cheap" drivers and earning money from other activities.

Therefore Toyota will throw in everything they can to keep him. Judging by the numbers he could be offered 15-20 mil EUR/year at Toyota and probably something like 5-10 at MSport. On top of that Toyota could make written promises on huge sums going into car development.
So for Tanak to switch to MSport he'd basically need to have car issues on every 2nd rally between now and Finland as well as old issues not getting fixed. It's still possible, but not very likely.

[Tarmop]

I think those sums are a bit "out of space".
+-Toyota is fast, sometimes unreliable
+Ford is also quite capable in good hands, definitely more reliable
+Toyota has more money to use for development and salaries
-M-Sport has less money
+Toyota is located close to his home, one half is practically at his home, which means more precious time at home
-M-Sport is a bit more far

[EstWRC]

Toyota definitely offers bigger salary, plus better development and like mentioned here already, one of the facilities is here in Estonia and second one just over the sea in Finland, plus endless testing in Finland.

But still he has less time for the family, because he has so many PR duties while being in Toyota, which he didnt have at M-sport and this is what Ogier also loved over there, less PR duties and more time for family.

Fiesta isnt the fastest machine but it was definitely the best overall machine in 17 and 18 IMO. Needless to say He knows the team so well and he is the one who developed the car from the scratch.

Toyota, well, i think we all know how the situation is with the car at the moment (and this is actually the only downside compared to M-sport) and i wonder how long his patience lasts. Plus, i think what also MAY (just my thought) bother him is that Tommi doesnt make it clear who is the number one in the team. Like in the beginning of this year, it was said out that all three may fight for the championship, the same was last year. While in Hyundai its clear Neuville is the number 1 and the same is with Ogier at Citroen and was in M-sport.

so in conclusion, i think he wont move from Toyota BUT if the car fails again in the next 4-5 rallies, he may say to himself: "Thats it, i have had enough."

[er88]

Worth remembering Msport always hit a wall with development. When they bring new cars out they're always one of the best if not theee best, but they can't maintain it vs other teams. Why would that be any different this time?

[tommeke_B]

Worth remembering Msport always hit a wall with development. When they bring new cars out they're always one of the best if not theee best, but they can't maintain it vs other teams. Why would that be any different this time?

Well, in Rally Sweden Suninen was leading, in Tour de Corse Evans was leading... You cannot say the drivers of M-Sport are better than those from other teams... So at this point, how can you fairly say the car is not as competitive as the others?

[mknight]

Worth remembering Msport always hit a wall with development. When they bring new cars out they're always one of the best if not theee best, but they can't maintain it vs other teams. Why would that be any different this time?

This is something I mentioned a few times before as well. First 1-2 years their car is typically one of the best if not the best, then it kind of stops. So question is if the current pace is just "leftovers" from Ogier's time at MSport or if it's a sign than they use the funds spared after Ogier left to stay at pace. (Wilson claims this)

[spiderem]

"Plus, i think what also MAY (just my thought) bother him is that Tommi doesnt make it clear who is the number one in the team. "

I think Latvala and Meeke are smart and experienced enough to know their role in the team, no need to scream out loud "Tanak, you are no. 1"

[mknight]

I think Latvala and Meeke are smart and experienced enough to know their role in the team, no need to scream out loud "Tanak, you are no. 1"
Both of them have taken PS points off Tanak this year on every rally except Sweden.
Arguably only in Mexico and Argentina this resulted in Tanak dropping points relative to Neuville or Ogier.

[er88]

Well, in Rally Sweden Suninen was leading, in Tour de Corse Evans was leading... You cannot say the drivers of M-Sport are better than those from other teams... So at this point, how can you fairly say the car is not as competitive as the others?I'm not saying the car isn't currently, it's only a few months on from being a title winning car and has one or two small updates since then.

As Mknight was saying, they usually fall away and only come back to the front when they introduce a new car/model. They won't bring a new car before 21/22 and the new regs are introduced, so could they continually develop and extract performance from the car for the next few years or will they hit a wall? Money is no objective atm for Toyota/Hyundai/Citroen compared to Msport, so if they pay Tanak a huge salary how are Msport meant to fund extra development as well as planning for the new regs? There would have to be a compromise somewhere, unless Ford come back in properly (which they won't), or Malcolm can secure title sponsorship from the Sheikh if Abu Dhabi return.

[dimviii]

Both of them have taken PS points off Tanak this year on every rally except Sweden.


took points and from his rivals,not only Tanak

[Allez Andruet]

Judging by the numbers he could be offered 15-20 mil EUR/year at Toyota and probably something like 5-10 at MSport.
Not claiming I would know what everybody's being paid, but 15-20M has to be completely out of the ballpark. Even with all the championship bonuses etc. the total amount is highly unlikely to exceed 10M.

If Miika Wuorela didn't get it completely wrong in this article (https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/201804292200910722), Ogier had to settle for base salary around 4M at M-Sport. And that was freaking Ogier.

[mknight]

took points and from his rivals,not only Tanak
Perhaps you should read the second sentence as well.

[mknight]

Not claiming I would know what everybody's being paid, but 15-20M has to be completely out of the ballpark. Even with all the championship bonuses etc. the total amount is highly unlikely to exceed 10M.

If Miika Wuorela didn't get it completely wrong in this article (https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/201804292200910722), Ogier had to settle for base salary around 4M at M-Sport. And that was freaking Ogier.

I believe I saw the 15 mil when Toyota (and not Tommi) wanted Ogier, could have been wrong and M. Wuoerla likely has much better info. Note that he lists 9M for Ogier with bonuses at MSport.

Main point with the numbers was to illustrate the possible difference. Tänak is atm indespensable for Toyota, so I do believe they are ready to go quite high.

[Allez Andruet]

Note that he lists 9M for Ogier with bonuses at MSport.

Yep, that's why I thought it's a safe bet that Tänak won't make ten, if Ogier, with basically all possible championship bonuses, gets nine. But we'll see. Surely Toyota can't afford to lose Tänak.

[Kradovech]

Both of them have taken PS points off Tanak this year on every rally except Sweden.
Arguably only in Mexico and Argentina this resulted in Tanak dropping points relative to Neuville or Ogier.
To me it seems there is no need to overthink the PS - If you want to help your teammate, the best way is to push as hard as possible to finish before his rivals. The total amount of points is irrelevant, only thing that matters is how much more points you get compared to the rivals. A point removed from Ogier/Neuville is apoint gained for Tänak.

Yes, it would be perfect for teammates to finish before the rivals and right after him, but in reality it is not so easily done. In most cases you do not know the time of others, and even if you do, I imagine it to be quite impossible to time the finish exactly with desired result

[dimviii]

To me it seems there is no need to overthink the PS - If you want to help your teammate, the best way is to push as hard as possible to finish before his rivals. The total amount of points is irrelevant, only thing that matters is how much more points you get compared to the rivals. A point removed from Ogier/Neuville is apoint gained for Tänak.

Yes, it would be perfect for teammates to finish before the rivals and right after him, but in reality it is not so easily done. In most cases you do not know the time of others, and even if you do, I imagine it to be quite impossible to time the finish exactly with desired result

@mknight

Kradovech wrote it better than me.
Thereis no point to measure ps points,its not controlable at all.
Sometimes wll benefit from their team mates,some times not.
Also dont forget manufacture points ,when at ps you can gain a postion(or loose )

[jparker]

Question is how Tanak wants to win the title, by dominating or "Richard Burns way".
If second, yeah he can go back to M-Sport, otherwise he better keep quite (if not too late already).
He's not going to get better chance than TGR.

[BurgundyRedMamba]

There are rumors in Estonian media that negotiations with Netflix are underway to bring Ott Tänak "The Movie" to worldwide audience. However, they are telling that Netflix is demanding to cut down the movie to 90 minutes (original version shown in Estonian cinemas is 2h 20min)

Third trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LLbOU4lkl4
IMDB https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9904844/

[Tauri_J]

They would butcher it.

[Franky]

They would butcher it.

Not really

[Gregor-y]

There are rumors in Estonian media that negotiations with Netflix are underway to bring Ott Tänak "The Movie" to worldwide audience. However, they are telling that Netflix is demanding to cut down the movie to 90 minutes (original version shown in Estonian cinemas is 2h 20min)

Third trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LLbOU4lkl4
IMDB https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9904844/

With Netflix why bother editing? Anyone powering through 90 minutes of subtitles is invested enough in the subject to appreciate the extra running time.

I'd watch it.

[Indreq]

With Netflix why bother editing? Anyone powering through 90 minutes of subtitles is invested enough in the subject to appreciate the extra running time.

I'd watch it.

I'm not sure if 50 minutes can be cut, but 20-30 minutes quite possibly - there were enough repetitive scenes about complaining about his personality and long "mood creating" shots where not much was going on. Sure, it would change the movie quite a bit, but it would still be watchable.

I wrote somewhere else already that it could have been also quite viable mini-documentary-series. There was enough juicy moments left completely out of this movie. Also it suits Netflix format quite well. So maybe 3x1h new cut?

[AnttiL]

I just hope it will be shown internationally.

[Japé]

I really hope to see the original 2h 20min version shown in Estonian cinemas (with Eng subtitles). #Don'tCut

[Franky]

I really hope to see the original 2h 20min version shown in Estonian cinemas (with Eng subtitles). #Don'tCut

It's not that big of a masterpiece.

[meh]

Wedding in Estonian style.
https://g4.nh.ee/efe/1280x1280/6CgBZuue4vHB7jr4HkJnWE.jpg
Image Kaspar Pokk (Delfi.ee)

2 new generation WRC cars in Georg Gross wedding. Gross father have been key-sponsor for Tänak, especially during so called hard times.

Full gallery: https://kroonika.delfi.ee/news/inimesed/fotod-glamuurne-pulmapidu-oleg-grossi-poeg-georg-abiellus-oma-kauni-kallimaga-vihma-eest-kaitses-neid-tseremoonia-ajal-ott-tanak?id=86757321#!dgs=dgsee-247875:6CgBZuue4vHB7jr4HkJnWE

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB25_T-XoAAs7Fl?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[EstWRC]

That was seen a lot during rally Finland and also already rally Estonia. In fact I saw this already in Tallinn before rally Estonia.

[cali]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB25_T-XoAAs7Fl?format=jpg&name=4096x4096For me it is quite stupid behaviour. Once Tänak was cursed in Estonia now everybody already crown him already as a champion. We'll see as the competition is very high and a lot can change in a short period of time so I see this as a very utter stupidity. Lot of estonian fans already start to disrespect other drivers in various forums which is not very nice. But I guess that's how the human nature works for 90% of people.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

For me it is quite stupid behaviour. Once Tänak was cursed in Estonia now everybody already crown him already as a champion. We'll see as the competition is very high and a lot can change in a short period of time so I see this as a very utter stupidity. Lot of estonian fans already start to disrespect other drivers in various forums which is not very nice. But I guess that's how the human nature works for 90% of people.


Totally agree on both points:

- too early, lots of things can happen

- screaming "Tanak best others suck" is retarded, specially since he has 0 titles atm and likely drives the fastest car
(FYI I wasn't a fan of Ogier in VW days by any means and thought it was a lot about the car, but the two titles in Fiesta (especially the one in 2017), have shown that he has an incredible ability to get good points even when things are not perfect so now I am quite a fan of him. I am not quite there with Tanak)

[EstWRC]

Lol, where does it scream others suck?

Quite an imagination

I agree it’s stupid but only because Ott isn’t world champion yet. On the other hand it shows how much Estonian fans believe in it and how much they support.

[mknight]

Lol, where does it scream others suck?

Quite an imagination

I agree it’s stupid but only because Ott isn’t world champion yet. On the other hand it shows how much Estonian fans believe in it and how much they support.

Maybe you should read what I am responding to before writing...

[Franky]

On the other hand it shows how much Estonian fans believe in it and how much they support.

If Tänak would disappear from WRC next year, over 50% of those supports wouldn't bother to even follow a WRC event.

[EstWRC]

If Tänak would disappear from WRC next year, over 50% of those supports wouldn't bother to even follow a WRC event.

Yes and that’s how it is with everything in life.

[EstWRC]

Maybe you should read what I am responding to before writing...


Explain me then, please

[mknight]

Cali writes:



Lot of estonian fans already start to disrespect other drivers in various forums which is not very nice.


I write:


screaming "Tanak best others suck" is retarded


...and you say the sign on the car doesn't say that.

No shit, we can all read 2 words can't we? I was referring to "other fans in various forums", which I quoted.

[cali]

Lol, where does it scream others suck?

Quite an imagination

I agree it’s stupid but only because Ott isn’t world champion yet. On the other hand it shows how much Estonian fans believe in it and how much they support.Have you seen estonian rally fb groups lately? If you read carefully my post I'm saying that some abnoxious behaviour has been spotted there lately. That describes the whole majority's mindset very well. And this sticker describes it as well. While I also want to believe that Ott will be crowned as a world champion one day (the sooner the sweeter) I'm far for believing that the fight is already half-over. And dissing Neuville (in fb forums) in every step of the way is also abnoxious. I like the 2019 edition Neuville a lot more vs 2018 and enjoying the 3-way fight. What a time to be a rallyfan!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[tommeke_B]

It's not an Estonian thing. I've noticed identical things with fan groups of Neuville since 2017. Any form of objectivity is missing from those fans, also respect towards other drivers is quite rare... I choose to avoid those kind of facebook discussions, fortunately this forum is a better place to follow the sport. :)

[deephouse]

Shame that one of those three muskeeters isn't in the mix aswell: Meeke, Latvala & Mikkelsen.

[EstWRC]

Have you seen estonian rally fb groups lately? If you read carefully my post I'm saying that some abnoxious behaviour has been spotted there lately. That describes the whole majority's mindset very well. And this sticker describes it as well. While I also want to believe that Ott will be crowned as a world champion one day (the sooner the sweeter) I'm far for believing that the fight is already half-over. And dissing Neuville (in fb forums) in every step of the way is also abnoxious. I like the 2019 edition Neuville a lot more vs 2018 and enjoying the 3-way fight. What a time to be a rallyfan!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

No, im not following those groups at all, for the exact reasons you named. And like tommeke says, its not only a estonian thing.


It's not an Estonian thing. I've noticed identical things with fan groups of Neuville since 2017. Any form of objectivity is missing from those fans, also respect towards other drivers is quite rare... I choose to avoid those kind of facebook discussions, fortunately this forum is a better place to follow the sport. :)

Absolutely agreed, people here are a lot more fun and understanding. So good to be here.

[meh]

Please, if one retard misbehaves somewhere, he/she does not represent entire nation, fanclub or community. It's just one retard, no conclusions.

Now, this sticker "#TänakJärveoja, WRCchamp2019" - I can see it as "declaration of hope" or dream or something like that. Usual fanboy stuff.

And if people lose their arguments from "conversation", it turns to blind believing and religion. No point to have "conversation" with those...

Personally I feel that Estonian rally audience is quite educated, they know a lot of background information etc. It's almoust impossible to ignore rally-related news, because those are everywhere.

btw, it's a bit offtopic here already :)

[spiderem]

Wedding in Estonian style.
https://g4.nh.ee/efe/1280x1280/6CgBZuue4vHB7jr4HkJnWE.jpg
Image Kaspar Pokk (Delfi.ee)

2 new generation WRC cars in Georg Gross wedding. Gross father have been key-sponsor for Tänak, especially during so called hard times.

Full gallery: https://kroonika.delfi.ee/news/inimesed/fotod-glamuurne-pulmapidu-oleg-grossi-poeg-georg-abiellus-oma-kauni-kallimaga-vihma-eest-kaitses-neid-tseremoonia-ajal-ott-tanak?id=86757321#!dgs=dgsee-247875:6CgBZuue4vHB7jr4HkJnWE

My big fat gipsy wedding

[stefanvv]

Please, if one retard misbehaves somewhere, he/she does not represent entire nation, fanclub or community. It's just one retard, no conclusions.

Now, this sticker "#TänakJärveoja, WRCchamp2019" - I can see it as "declaration of hope" or dream or something like that. Usual fanboy stuff.

And if people lose their arguments from "conversation", it turns to blind believing and religion. No point to have "conversation" with those...

Personally I feel that Estonian rally audience is quite educated, they know a lot of background information etc. It's almoust impossible to ignore rally-related news, because those are everywhere.

btw, it's a bit offtopic here already :)

No, no, no. It's quite on-topic more than ever.

[janvanvurpa]

It's not an Estonian thing. I've noticed identical things with fan groups of Neuville since 2017. Any form of objectivity is missing from those fans, also respect towards other drivers is quite rare... I choose to avoid those kind of facebook discussions, fortunately this forum is a better place to follow the sport. :)

but whatabout BLOCK!!! America's Rally SUPERSTAR!!!!! the best EVER!!!!!

A TRUE GOD!!! [/typicalblockfanvoice off]

[AnttiL]

Finnish rally fans are a different breed. Most people just keep mocking Latvala year after year.

Maybe we're so accustomed to having multiple factory drivers year after year. It would be so different to look at the sport through one single driver.

[EstWRC]

Finnish rally fans are a different breed. Most people just keep mocking Latvala year after year.

Maybe we're so accustomed to having multiple factory drivers year after year. It would be so different to look at the sport through one single driver.

totally agreed. second year in a row on Rally Finland we try to cheer up your guys at the stages, that Latvala is on the podium, but all the answers are like: "meh, its worthless, he is a nobody now, Kalle and Teemu are good boys and the future!"

its crazy how much people already are cheering and loving Kalle there, it feels like they are almost certain he will be a champion one day.

[Allez Andruet]

You don't know what you have till it's gone. Finnish rally fans will learn that the hard way.

[Hartusvuori]

its crazy how much people already are cheering and loving Kalle there, it feels like they are almost certain he will be a champion one day.

Yep. Talking about being ahead of things.

Kalle phenomenon attracts mostly sports fans that are slightly interested in rallying, relates heavily to the Finnish heritage of success and also value any sport only by the recent success in it by the countrymen. While on Rally Finland stages, Kalle's name was heard the most of times, but for the real die hard rally fans, it's more down to earth. Of course we believe in his talent and that the talent could bring success, but we also know that one doesn't win championships by just turning in. OK, Ott and Kalle have greatly different backgrounds to rallying, but while Ott is now (and have been for few years) on the top of his game, this topic with that subject title was started already in 2011. There are no straight fastforward ways to the absolute top.

[Allez Andruet]

Kalle phenomenon attracts mostly sports fans that are slightly interested in rallying, relates heavily to the Finnish heritage of success and also value any sport only by the recent success in it by the countrymen.

Kalle is already a household name in Finland. Football and ice hockey aside, all sports crave for those kind of cash cows. As you wrote, if it wasn't for Kalle, some of the people spectating Rally Finland might have stayed at home. Small percentage of those Kalle fans will hopefully turn into "real" rally fans at some point, so it's a win-win.

[janvanvurpa]

Don't it always seem to go that You don't know what you have till it's gone. Finnish rally fans will learn that the hard way.

They paved Paradise, and put up a parking lot*..

Great Joni Mitchell song!
Great because its so true..


* last weekend whole family we were up hiking at Paradise between 1600 to 2000m
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kplu/files/styles/medium/public/201711/photoWidlflowers.jpg

[swanny]

They paved Paradise, and put up a parking lot*..]

Sorry, OT :D Thought you were going to be talking about Pikes Peak....

[janvanvurpa]

Sorry, OT :D Thought you were going to be talking about Pikes Peak....

No, that was a tragedy and a loss but realistically its just one very wide and very fast stage..so smooth it may as well have been ass-fault..
And since most Americans are not interested in a driving challenge and never have been (in any great numbers) making it ass-fault the whole way to the top means
everybody can do what Americans want to to and do do so well: look at shiny "stuff" somebody else has bought...lots of shiny stuff and lots of overweight guys talking about the shiny stuff somebody else bought and how totally awesome the person who bought the shiny stuff is on the podcast...and never forgetting to tell you every 15-17 minutes that the event is the most awesome-est car race in the world...all the while talking to the camera telling you how awesome it is while not showing you no, while walking around looking at camera.*


*I swear to God I just saw something exactly like this just yesterday only it was my old sport I did for so long which is moto-cross...Its 50 year anniversary of racing at what is really the best American mx track, Unadilla, in New York state...scene of many hard fights, scene of many World Championship events.. 30m + of a guy strolling the pits "Hey howya doing? Awesome!" and eventually strolling a part of the famous track--with camera aimed directly at the guy 99% of the time..with him TELLING you endlessly "It was so awesome"

Not showing you with old clips of notable races or even famous photos of the men who raced..

A talking head talking about what others men have done...and telling you how awesome the machines were "They were awesome"

Perfect American media production..

[robertr]

As an Estonian rally fan and also a big fan of Tänak, I feel quite often in here that some guys go too far. It's okay to love Tänak, but sometimes it feels like some users are IN LOVE with him.

[robertr]

I will try to explain, why Ott Tänak is so popular in Estonia.

First of all, we are quite tiny country, around 1,3 million people, out of which about 1 million are Estonians.

We don't have internationally famous bands, artists, movie stars, so top athletes are our best known celebrities.

Like I said, Estonia is a small country and every athlete who reaches the top level, will become very popular in Estonia.

In the late 80s-early 90s, most popular athlete was Erika Salumäe who won 2 Olympic golds in track cycling. She has been chosen 9 times as the Athlete of the Year in Estonia. Okay, she had nice achievements, but track cycling is nothing that would attract the masses. In Estonia, I don't know anyone else who has even tried track cycling, beside the 2 times Olympic winner Ms. Salumäe.

Then we had decathlete Erki Nool, who won the olympic gold in 2000. Decathlon is an extremely tough sports to do, also not very popular. But during that time, everyone in Estonia was an expert in decathlon and knew how to calculate the points.

From the late 90s until 2010 Cross-country skiing was immensely popular in Estonia, our athletes got multiple gold medals from the winter olympics and I remember that when I was in high school, school was cancelled for one day, so everyone could watch our top skiiers fight for the medals in 2006 Turin winter olympics. These years are now considered taboo and big national shame, as the success was most probably fueled by doping - main skiiers found good lawyers and were never convicted, but now one reallt doubts their guilt.

From 2000 to 2005 we had Markko Märtin in WRC. Rally has always been very popular, even in the soviet times. And when Markko started getting good results in WRC, first Estonian rallymania started. Our most successful athletes had been either very strong or with a good stamina, Markko was the first one to prove that Estonians can be trusted to operate a really fast machinery at really high speed. And he was the first one to really earn big money. Markko had something mysterious about him - really quiet, rarely giving interviews, nothing known about his private life. Also the tragic end of his career only added to his legend. He has been influential in the rally circles even after retiring and has had a huge role in the Ott's success. He is also a successful businessman and that earns respect in the eyes of Estonians.

Then we had discus thrower Gerd Kanter. He was really popular, very consistent and result oriented, 12 medals from big title competitions, his personal best marks the 3rd best result of all time. Also a very intelligent and pleasant person, a really good role model for everyone. He stopped his career recently and is still very much respected in Estonia. But once again, discus throwing is not really a sport for the masses.

Maybe the most surprising one is the story of Baruto. Estonian guy who ended up being one of the top sumo wrestlers. From 2004-2013 every Estonian sports fan knew the words sekiwaki, Ōzeki, yokozuna etc. His career was unfortunately ended by a nasty knee injury. He is still a celebrity in Japan and Estonia, but his recent foray into politics will probably tarnish his star.

We've had 1 guy in NBA (not too successful), 1 guy in NFL (moderately succesful, at some point every Estonian sports fan was following US football league), 1 top footballer (2 year in Liverpool, but not too often in the starting lineup).

And now it's the era of Ott. Even if he never becomes world champ, he will remain a huge star in Estonia. We don't really have any other succesful athletes at the moment (1 javelin guy might become, but once again, not too popular sports discipline). Estonians had been yearning for a new WRC driver since Markko's retirement. We had Urmo Aava for a while, but he was not that good. Everyone had huge expectations for Ott, then he fucked up...twice...so now, when he is at his peak and driving a fast car, every Estonian is happy. And since we have now online media, social media etc, the craze around Ott is much bigger than it was for Markko. I also think that Ott's rough start in WRC has supported his popularity - he used to be the ridiculed underdog, and now he is the top guy, calling the shots, posing with Akio Toyoda, driving F1 and earning big buck. I think Estonians are genuinly happy for him, which is a rare thing, as Estonians are not the friendliest of people.

Long story short - we are a tiny nation and desperate for heroes. Now Ott is our hero.

[tr4m]

As an Estonian rally fan and also a big fan of Tänak, I feel quite often in here that some guys go too far. It's okay to love Tänak, but sometimes it feels like some users are IN LOVE with him.
What is too far? Not trying to argue, just honestly curious as I'm not in any Estonian rally community and ignore the comment section in news articles, for obvious reasons.. In my opinion too far is hurting the sport or athlete, not "calling names".
Obviously badmouthing Ogier and especially Neuville seems to be popular among Estonians, but there's no other driver that has been bullied by Estonian "fans" more than Tänak himself.

[EstWRC]

The wait is almost over!
Ott Tänak Movie is going global on October 1st on VOD:
tanakmovie.com
The film is translated into 9 languages.
Fasten your seatbelts and get ready for the ride!


https://tanakmovie.com/?fbclid=IwAR1R8XLeK3AFkh1pZfqXMqcR3XK7QQKvwyOdcfF7 uexYdto2uGjhTLR7M_I

[TypeR]

Now available to watch online!
https://netikino.ee/?page=movie&id=6

5.90 euros and available for 48h. Very reasonable price to me..

[EstWRC]

i definitely recommend it. I think you get to know him better.

It isnt anything special but not bad either, the grandma scene alone is worthful to watch IMO :D. and the Latvala scenes (especially the one where he is explaining like a mad man some things to Tänak on Rally Mexico recce, and Tänak just says "NO" with his stoneface)

and of course some very hard moments, Wales the most obvious one, still hard to watch.

[EstWRC]

Ott Tänak Movie
11 mins ·
We are most pleased about the massive worldwide interest in the movie about Ott that caused the payment system of the website tanakmovie.com to crash upon its launch earlier today. The payment provider is aware of the problem and by now has restored the services of the payment system.
Thank you all for notifying us and thanks for your patience!

[br21]

anyone who already got access knows if there is a way to save the video or you need to be online to watch? I believe online only option, but would like to confirm as tomorrow on the plane will have time to watch, but there of course no internet access. Thanx!

[able1]

Started watching it just after arriving back from work .... just finished it now. Starving now cuz didnt want to pause it. Loved it ... truly one of the best rally docs ive seen.

[flykas]

Saw it yesterday. It is great. Really interesting to see "behind the scenes" of WRC, interactions between the drivers and Tanak's grandma is really cool :]] Wish we had more such documentaries. Also left me with a strange feeling, kind of regret that I never became a rally driver because it is really inspiring.

[Katvala]

I will try to watch it tonight, been waiting for it

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Indreq]

Can anyone see full article behind the paywall here and perhaps summarize? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/wales-rally-gb-2019-ott-tanak-not-good-enough-world-rally-championship/

[surdna]

Can anyone see full article behind the paywall here and perhaps summarize? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/wales-rally-gb-2019-ott-tanak-not-good-enough-world-rally-championship/

there's an option to read one article free if you create the account, type in some random email and pw and you get to read it (they dont even ask to confirm your email)

[meh]

I recommend to watch Tänak movie with your girlfriend/wife. If she is not in to the topic (yet), she may understand the sport better, but also needs some background information. Aa'la who-is-who and what are relations behind there. For example history between Wilson and Tänak.

[drive]

Anyone KNOW when will be Ott movie released on DVD? Need it for my collection :)

[Doon]

Does Netikino have any TV casting options? I’d like to watch the film, but ideally on a large screen. I was surprised that it wasn’t released on a more mainstream POD site.

[Katvala]

I watched the movie. I really liked it, except for the fact that it was dubbed. Not used to that, I always use original language and subtitles.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Kradovech]

Does Netikino have any TV casting options? I’d like to watch the film, but ideally on a large screen. I was surprised that it wasn’t released on a more mainstream POD site.
I went for the old school solution and connected my PC to TV via HDMI cable. A foolproof solution.

I watched the movie. I really liked it, except for the fact that it was dubbed. Not used to that, I always use original language and subtitles.

You can change the audio to Estonian (Original language), there is no dubbing in that version. You can select audio and subtitles separately on top of the video.

I watched it, I liked it. It is indeed well made. Makes me regret I did not bother to go and check it out in cinema.

[Katvala]

With dubbing I meant Becs' dubbing. I didn't see any settings to turn it off, otherwise I would! Oh well

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Kradovech]

Estonian audio turns off Becs. Apart when she is being interivied herself :) English subtitles will remain

[Japé]

The movie was very good quality, well edited, etc. It would be nice to have more WRC driver documentaries made! Naturally these are designed for larger audience (than just hardcore WRC fans) and in that sense it would had been nice to see even more historical / behind the scenes type of material vs. the WRC 2018 season related material. Would recommend movie for all who are interested of WRC and will watch this again soon :)

[AnttiL]

He is also artistic :D (for a charity)

https://maalideshead.ee/en/oksjon/ott-tanak/

https://maalideshead.ee/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/maalides-head-ott-tnak-1.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally GB could be the confirmation of Tanak as the new force...

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2019/tanak-analysis/page/6735--12-12-.html

[Japé]

Has there been any speculation in Estonian media that if Tanak wins the title, what kind of gift Saaremaa county will give him, maybe a building plot for a summer cottage or a Tanak statue?

[EstWRC]

Nothing at all. Quite quiet actually so far. Turkey brought all the media down to earth again.

[Timmy]

A handshake.

[Franky]

A handshake.

They'll declare independence, become a kingdom and appoint Tänak as their king. It will be a parliamentary monarchy.

[EstWRC]

Happy Birthday to this guy!

Hopefully he will get his dream present next week on Sunday !

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2004 first rally with golf
2008 first year with 4wd car, estonian champion in n4
2009 some wrc rallys, estonian champion in n4, wins psd shootout
2010 psd, 2 wins in pwrc
2011 3 wins in swrc, 7th place in sardinia, 6th place in rally gb
2012 full season with fiesta wrc

is it more to come?

Oh yes !! 2019 World Champion !! :champion:

[able1]

now we can finally delete this thread.... congrats Ott and Martin!!!

[Sulland]

Congrats to Ott and Martin, and Toyota and Tommi!

Finally a world champion not called Sebastian!

[AnttiL]

Congrats Ott and Martin, very deserved title!

I'm also very happy for the enthusiastic Estonian fans, you deserve this as well!

[BigWorm]

Special son. A fantastic year from him, thoroughly deserved.

[Allez Andruet]

In hindsight the story of the season was whether Tänak manages to lose it, rather than others managing to win it. If there ever was man of the moment in modern WRC, it's Tänak in 2019. Unbeatable in his day. Congratulations!

[TypeR]

I think the question in the thread name got a pretty straight answer :D

[cali]

Done, done and done!!! Soo happy!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

At the beginning of the year I actually wanted to bet on Ott's title. I don't bet on anything normally and I just wanted to make the season more exciting for me. In the end I forgot and it was clearly a mistake :)

[janvanvurpa]

https://www.motorsportforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by allar https://www.motorsportforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?p=791037#post791037)
2004 first rally with golf
2008 first year with 4wd car, estonian champion in n4
2009 some wrc rallys, estonian champion in n4, wins psd shootout
2010 psd, 2 wins in pwrc
2011 3 wins in swrc, 7th place in sardinia, 6th place in rally gb
2012 full season with fiesta wrc


is it more to come?


Oh yes !! 2019 World Champion !! :champion:

Oh I guess you could say "overnight sensation"....yeah...:eek:

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont go back quite that far.

But I do remember the dark M-Sport days when there was only me and ESTWRC supporting him on this forum...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

From NZ 2012 & Titanak to world champion..

Look how awesome Ott become..

Sent from my Redmi 6 using Tapatalk

[cali]

I dont go back quite that far.

But I do remember the dark M-Sport days when there was only me and ESTWRC supporting him on this forum...Eddie, I have been member from 2003 or smth. I'm not patriotic and try to be objective but supported our fellow countrymen. Maybe I have not been the loudest supporter but I have been here more than 15 years...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Japé]

It would be nice to read some Tanak related articles now from Estonian mainstream media, e.g. Postimees, but for some reason text copy paste from Postimees to google translator does not work. Anyone else having this issue?

[RaunoK]

It would be nice to read some Tanak related articles now from Estonian mainstream media, e.g. Postimees, but for some reason text copy paste from Postimees to google translator does not work. Anyone else having this issue?

Try using Google Chrome, it usually gives an option to translate the whole page.

[Eraisik]

The only thing different in Estonian media is a claim from long term Ott supporter Georg Gross that he knows where Ott will drive. This means as minimum that Ott has made up his mind and made decision if not contract already but Gross doesn’t say anything about contract.

[Crazy J]

Where ever Ott will drive on next couple of years, probably money will play some role as well. Loeb and Ogier have collected their pension savings, but Ott most likely has to (but probably is also happy to) share his salary with Malcolm, Georg, Markko and some for his current and former co-drivers, gravel crews, etc supporting specialist. Besides that he is likely to share some to his family, relatives and yellow golf Saaremaa supporters. Media says that he has barely got decent salary so far, so it will surely take still some years that he has proper amount of money left actually for himself.

[cali]

The only thing different in Estonian media is a claim from long term Ott supporter Georg Gross that he knows where Ott will drive. This means as minimum that Ott has made up his mind and made decision if not contract already but Gross doesn’t say anything about contract.Everybody knows it already whats the fuss? Read between the lines - Hfrigginyundai

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[TypeR]

Get the facts straight.. It's OLEG Gross, who has been supporting Ott the whole time, not Georg(his son).
Potato-potaato.. just sayin'.

[Eraisik]

Indeed! I managed to get name wrong despite I know both. I thought Oleg but fingers typed Georg. My bad.

[Gregor-y]

Starting as a WRC regular in 2012 that's seven years to his first title. Has any other champion had to work that long and that hard (not to mention with so many different teams if you count Dmack) to win?

[deephouse]

If Ogier wouldn't be in wrc in those years he would be probably sooner. Or not. For me he was just some unreliable, sometimes fast like a lot of other guys. Then he almost win on DMACK's and next year he did it twio times. Then I realize that this dude could actually be in the mix for the title. Shame that Latvala, Meeke and Mikkelsen can't challenge those three kings anymore. That would be pretty awesome. Maybe some new manufacturer would pay interest because there would be more title contenders.

[Legendaarne]

It took Mäkinen 10years
Grönholm 12years

[AnttiL]

It took Mäkinen 10years
Grönholm 12years

Depends on where you put the zero. I would say Grönholm won the title on his first full season and Tommi on his third.

EDIT: Third season for Tommi. 1992 Nissan, 1995-1996 Mitsu

[Legendaarne]

Depends on where you put the zero. I would say Grönholm won the title on his first full season and Tommi on his fourth.

Yes, that's how it is

But Gregor-y's question was since Tänak was a regular (he said since 2012. Tänak hasn't had full seasons all these years)

I just took these numbers from a finnish article in yle.fi (Mestariksi mestareiden iässä)

The guy who wrote it, said they had been around in wrc for that amount of time.

In my opinion in the last 25 years, only Sebastiens have risen to rally prominence in their early or first years

My goal was to show that it takes time for everyone

Very few are those who can win straight out of the box

Tänak was crash prone, but so was Mcrae

Both world champions

[Gregor-y]

But Gregor-y's question was since Tänak was a regular (he said since 2012. Tänak hasn't had full seasons all these years)
He missed 2013 and drove all but three events in 14 (though since many were with Dmack do they count?). Even assuming 2015 as his first full year that's four years to the championship.

That does not detract from his accomplishment at all. If anything it shows how persistence at the WRC level can pay off. Particularly these days where most champions have been good right out of the box. Richard Burns is probably the last campaigner before Tanak to get a title.

Compared to other champions:
Ogier 2009 start 2013 championship (four years, including s2000 in 2012 which can't be better than running with Dmack)
Loeb 2003 start, 2004 championship (one year)
Solberg 2000 start (though he missed four events that year) 2003 championship (three years)
Burns 1997 start (missing five events that year), 2001 championship (four years if you count 97 as a full season)
Gronholm 2000 start, championship 2000
Makinen 1995 start, 1996 championship (one year)
McRae 1992 start, 1995 championship (three years and that's missing some events in 92)
Auriol 1990 start, 1994 championship (four years; from 90-93 he missed at least three events each year)
Sainz 1989 start , 1990 championship (one year)
Biasaion 1986 start, 1988 championship (two years. Even when champion he was missing as many as four events per year)
Kankkunen 1986 start, 1986 championship

It starts to get muddier farther back as drivers like Salonen had been doing some events regularly but not full seasons. Likewise Blomqvist had been doing Sweden/Finland/RAC since the early 70s but didn't run anything resembling a WRC season until 83 and he won the next year.

[Tarmop]

Well, 2012 is a great experience, but resulted being unemployed, 2014 was WRC2 season, most of all...2015 wasn`t perfect either, developing DMacks in 2016 gave him a chance to get a podium / victory on some events, not more, in 2017 he didn`t have a chance to think about it even, being nr. 2 to Ogier...Toyota failed him many times in 2018...

[Kielder]

A tribute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=108&v=FsYGbnPpJ1Q

[AnttiL]

He missed 2013 and drove all but three events in 14 (though since many were with Dmack do they count?). Even assuming 2015 as his first full year that's four years to the championship.

That does not detract from his accomplishment at all. If anything it shows how persistence at the WRC level can pay off. Particularly these days where most champions have been good right out of the box. Richard Burns is probably the last campaigner before Tanak to get a title.

Compared to other champions:
Ogier 2009 start 2013 championship (four years, including s2000 in 2012 which can't be better than running with Dmack)
Loeb 2003 start, 2004 championship (one year)
Solberg 2000 start (though he missed four events that year) 2003 championship (three years)
Burns 1997 start (missing five events that year), 2001 championship (four years if you count 97 as a full season)
Gronholm 2000 start, championship 2000
Makinen 1995 start, 1996 championship (one year)
McRae 1992 start, 1995 championship (three years and that's missing some events in 92)
Auriol 1990 start, 1994 championship (four years; from 90-93 he missed at least three events each year)
Sainz 1989 start , 1990 championship (one year)
Biasaion 1986 start, 1988 championship (two years. Even when champion he was missing as many as four events per year)
Kankkunen 1986 start, 1986 championship

It starts to get muddier farther back as drivers like Salonen had been doing some events regularly but not full seasons. Likewise Blomqvist had been doing Sweden/Finland/RAC since the early 70s but didn't run anything resembling a WRC season until 83 and he won the next year.

Mäkinen had a full factory season with Nissan in 1992 but the factory quit, thus his 1993 and 1994 were half seasons. Kankkunen was also with Toyota works team for three years before going to Peugeot, but the seasons consisted of few WRC events.

Auriol started already with full season in 1989 with Lancia and had driven with Ford the year before.

In every year before 1994 the regulations stated that you counted the best eight rallies to your result (like in WRC2). Thus Biasion et al did a "full season" by just doing eight rallies. Nobody did actual full seasons in that time. The closest must be Sainz in 1990 and Alen in 1986, all but Ivory Coast.

And Tänak, we could say he did full seasons of 2012 and 2015-2019, in total six, before becoming a champion. Probably longer than most champions, but in the double Seb era many drivers never became champions at all.

[ceemic]

Maybe we should then count rallies, not seasons? :)

[Legendaarne]

Could be a more adequate way of determining rally drivers skills and accomplishments. 😃

[EstWRC]

marca.com interview out now, nothing new acutally https://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=et&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marca.com%2Fmotor%2Frallies%2F 2019%2F10%2F30%2F5db822bd46163fc7278b457b.html


Q. What has been the most important season of your career?

A. I think I started to really evolve from then on. The 2016 season, again with DMACK, but already at WRC, was, perhaps, the toughest I've ever done, but, at the same time, I'm sure that made me stronger and gave me an extra experience in that regard . I had to face difficult conditions, knowing most of the time that I would not be able to fight to win. It was very important for me to run as Ogier's partner the following year. We spend a lot of time together, I think we form a very solid team between the two. I learned a lot from him, I understood how certain aspects of our work should be carried out, and we also built a good friendship that we still have.


glad that im not the only who thinks the Dmack year was as important as 2017. Like he says, he knew most of the time he cant compete with those tryes and IMO it teached him to be patient and mind his own business.

[AnttiL]

I also liked the part where the Spanish interviewer asks innocently Tänak's opinion of Sordo, and Tänak says they could be teammates some day :D

[Oraamat]

glad that im not the only who thinks the Dmack year was as important as 2017. Like he says, he knew most of the time he cant compete with those tryes and IMO it teached him to be patient and mind his own business.
Yea, ive also allways been thinking that DMACK year was a breakthrough in his career. He was able to drive pressurefree, with his own pace and I guess Dmack tyres teached him alot about stability and consistensy. And nobody really didnt expected something from him other than feedback to develop tyres. 2015 there were quite alot driving mistakes and and not so good year. With DMACK year in the middle, the 2017 he was quite strong already with decent pace and very few driving mistakes, so in my personal opinion DMACK year was very important.

[sinepikohv]

I think it was Malcolm who said that 2017 was a turning point for Ott. The reason? Martin Järveoja. All of Ott's WRC wins have come with Martin.

[meh]

I think it was Malcolm who said that 2017 was a turning point for Ott. The reason? Martin Järveoja. All of Ott's WRC wins have come with Martin.

I don't think it's only one-and-only key parameter there.

"Turning point" includes at least:
- Analyze and experience from previous (mistakes)
- Match with Martin
- Being (important) part of development of new car - clear understanding why and how something works
- Ogier as team-mate

[sinepikohv]

Not saying that his success boiled down to just Martin. For example, I agree with the points you made, I just recalled something Malcolm said.

By the way, something is brewing with the "Ott Tänak - The Movie" stuff as well. Film-makers were in Catalunya and confirmed that something new will be released soon. Whether it's a 2.0 or a different ending to the original movie, they didn't say.

[AnttiL]

Remember how Tänak still "threw away" two potential victories in 2017, in Portugal and Poland. And it wasn't far in Sardegna with an overshoot on the last day. Still in Finland he made a mistake at the very beginning of the rally. Since then that hasn't happened anymore. I would claim the second victory in Germany was the turning point. After that it's been easier.

[Oraamat]

One of the producers Aleksander Ots said in "Õhtu" that they would add "Won his first title in 2019" to the ending of the original movie, but it wont be just this sentence as film crew were in Catalunya with Ott and they are waiting for crew to arrive in Estonia to start look through raw material.

[AL14]

Guys do you remember Poland 2017? Tanak was crying and the WRC rally win seemed like a curse impossible to catch because of that damn rock, and the chances running out year after year.
Look at where he is now though. He is an example. Never give up even when everything seems lost.


https://rallystar.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/OttTanak-Poland-.jpg

[Indreq]

I too believe that while several factors played role in Otts' maturing into elite driver, big role was in codriver change. Biggest difference between Ott 5 years ago and today is not speed, but confidence and focus which results in very few mistakes while going at his best speed. Its not widely discussed (so take this as evil rumor) but he never had such 100% confidence in his past codrivers because every now and then mistakes slipped in, even if its just change in reading pace not false note. Now with Martin he has perfect match, he has absolute trust and can focus on driving.

Which makes me wonder - how much say has Martin in current negotiations and how big would his share be? I know usually its said that codriver gets 10%, so in case of 7MEUR deal he would get 700K?

Taking into account also agents share (Märtin) and payments to past sponsors (surely Wilson, maybe Märtin, probably not Gross), also taxes, he himself can probably keep half the money, if not less. Which is still lot of money... P

[sinepikohv]

I just think it's a telling stat that Martin is the only co-driver with whom Ott has won events.

I've never really understood what excactly did Ott learn from Seb in the M-Sport days. Ott, Seb and Malcolm have always said that Ott learned a lot. But what excactly? I'm sure journalists have asked but perhaps I just don't remember or Ott and the others really doesn't say anything specific.

And one movie related thing as well - during Rally Estonia, it was rumoured that a film about Markko is in the making. Info came from a really good source but everything seems to be quiet on that front.

[AnttiL]

Guys do you remember Poland 2017?

2016.

[Rally Power]

marca.com interview out now, nothing new acutally https://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=et&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marca.com%2Fmotor%2Frallies%2F 2019%2F10%2F30%2F5db822bd46163fc7278b457b.html

Q. What has been the most important season of your career?
A. I think I started to really evolve from then on. The 2016 season, again with DMACK, but already at WRC, was, perhaps, the toughest I've ever done, but, at the same time, I'm sure that made me stronger and gave me an extra experience in that regard . I had to face difficult conditions, knowing most of the time that I would not be able to fight to win. It was very important for me to run as Ogier's partner the following year. We spend a lot of time together, I think we form a very solid team between the two. I learned a lot from him, I understood how certain aspects of our work should be carried out, and we also built a good friendship that we still have.
(...)

It’s great to see Tanak praising Ogier; hope Ogier haters can notice it. Btw, nice interview; thanks for sharing it.

[denkimi]

I just think it's a telling stat that Martin is the only co-driver with whom Ott has won events.

I've never really understood what excactly did Ott learn from Seb in the M-Sport days. Ott, Seb and Malcolm have always said that Ott learned a lot. But what excactly? I'm sure journalists have asked but perhaps I just don't remember or Ott and the others really doesn't say anything specific.

Taking notes, setting up the car, adjusting your driving style. Who knows what else.

Before that season next to ogier he was a good number 2 driver. By the end of it he was the number one he is today, so he must have learned something.

[Fredouye]

2016.I've watched this quite a few times : https://youtu.be/rjo-c8fwLZw

[AnttiL]

David Evans interviews Tänak in his new Gravel Notes podcast episode

[EstWRC]

link here https://www.spreaker.com/user/mpodcast/gravelnotes-007?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A10600217&utm_term=episode_title

[Gregor-y]

Probably longer than most champions, but in the double Seb era many drivers never became champions at all.
Now that's also true. And Tanak is the first to break that cycle.

[Oraamat]

I think that breaking Sebastiens domination era will add little bit more "value" to this title.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIEtO49WoAANmF4?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

https://twitter.com/JBauti72/status/1189281533087141888?s=20

[TypeR]

Well, okay.. We have settled this thing w my wife for couple of days now and decided to watch the movie again.. Ofcourse it is thru blue-black-white glasses, but holy dmack.. Now you watch it from a totally different point of view. It just makes so much more sense and you can put all the pieces of puzzle together.. All the tragedy and bad luck.. just so devostating.
Watching it now, after the WDC.. what a journey it have been.. All the troubles, crashes, problems and negotiations w Malcolm and Markko.. It's just so awesome to see, how dreams come true, although it has been as easy as changing a clutch thru the exhaust :D
And on the other hand.. from Poland 16' and on.. Ogier has been much more than just a world champ.. As he said years ago.. ,,I have had few friends from WRC, but Ott is one of them''.. There is something special between those guys.

But even being fan of Tänak, I really hope, that Neuville gets his WDC one day.. Don't want him to be another Jari, who has had a very long WRC career, but sadly there were too many ,,Sebs,, :D
...and now Ott

[sinepikohv]

There was a story with Malcolm Wilson in the Estonian media yesterday.

Some loose translations: "Ogier mostly taught him mental aspects of rallying. You don't have to win every stage and should think of the rally as a whole. I never doubted Ott's speed, but his maturing, Janika and Seb have played a big part in the title."

Malcolm knew already in 2017 that it's just a matter of time when Ott wil win the title. "I believe it may had happened already in 2018 if Ott had stayed with us at M-Sport."

Also, when Ott wanted to change his co-driver in 2016, Wilson didn't really think it was a great idea. Although he adds that he didn't disallow it either.

The link itself is: https://sport.ohtuleht.ee/981842/malcolm-wilson-usun-et-tanak-voinuks-m-sporti-jaades-juba-2018-maailmameistriks-tulla

[Crazy J]

A lot can be speculated on forums but the tone of voice in Tanak's FB page post tells quite a bit.

[EstWRC]

Looks quite good actually :D....cant wait to see the first test videos

https://www.wrc.com/images//News/2019/October2019/17237_OttTanak-Hyundai-2020_001_896x504.jpg?fbclid=IwAR0Y7zy_1jXsnqaZVaG6 gR05dmhthTQgxZrjx7rncor86jKKjlr7aMbkLEU

[reff92]

Looks quite good actually :D....cant wait to see the first test videos

IMAGE

At least we have our own flag on car roof. But i think he keep his number eight on the car and not changing it to number one.

[Tarmop]

He has to, i believe there was a rule that No. 1 is supposed to be used by no. 1.

...and it is nr. 1 afterall...

[pantealex]

He has to, i believe there was a rule that No. 1 is supposed to be used by no. 1.

...and it is nr. 1 afterall...

F1 has no such rule, champion can take 1, but Hamilton is still using #44

But I believe Ott will take 1. Big marketing value!!!

[Hartusvuori]

He has to, i believe there was a rule that No. 1 is supposed to be used by no. 1.

...and it is nr. 1 afterall...

Regulations given an option not to chose it, but who wouldn't?

CAR IDENTIFICATION
17. SEASONALLY ALLOCATED COMPETITION NUMBERS
17.1 MANUFACTURERS
P1 drivers may request a specific number provided that the application is endorsed by the FIA and the
Promoter. Number 1 may only be chosen by the World Champion driver of the previous season. Requested
numbers may not be greater than 99.

[meh]

I don't think it's only one-and-only key parameter there.

"Turning point" includes at least:
- Analyze and experience from previous (mistakes)
- Match with Martin
- Being (important) part of development of new car - clear understanding why and how something works
- Ogier as team-mate

One more really important parameter - personal trainer (physical & mental) Tarmo Tiits. Picked from Tänak's interview to estonian media.

[meh]

Ott Tänak - The Movie will be available on DVD: https://www.apollo.ee/en/ott-tanak-the-movie-dvd-fannipakk.html

[Japé]

Does the DVD included some extras besides the movie?

They should make a sequel to original movie ;)

[Päss1928]

Does the DVD included some extras besides the movie?

They should make a sequel to original movie ;)

Yes, look at the price - 40€. They really are milking it. It says the dvd includes the movie + extra disc with interviews with rallyworld persons, Ott's family and Ott himself that weren't included in the movie + extra scenes and clips that weren't in the movie + an extensive photobook + an introduction of the people interviewed in the movie. The total length of the new content isn't mentioned but it says they filmed for more than 150h.

After Ott's title it was also mentioned in Estonian media that the end of the movie will be edited. Ott's WDC will be added to it somehow.

[EstWRC]

Does the DVD included some extras besides the movie?

They should make a sequel to original movie ;)

E: Päss was faster

[Indreq]

Probably biggest chunk that was missing from his movie was his involvement with russian Syrus Rally Team. It didnt work out. Blame was thrown afterwards both ways but today Ott is champ and most people dont even remember this team any more.
I put a link here to google translated article: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=et&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.rally.ee/%3Fa%3Da009%26b%3D4657&xid=17259,15700021,15700186,15700190,15700256,1570 0259,15700262,15700265,15700271,15700280,15700283&usg=ALkJrhhIRQ8QAr69LM9ks6kqg5EB6_ZNUA

[EstWRC]

i think this is the first interview i have found after he became champ....he rarely or basically doesnt give any interviews to estonian media

https://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=et&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.auto-motor-und-sport.de%2Frallye-wm%2Finterview-rallye-weltmeister-ott-taenak-deswegen-geht-er-zu-hyundai%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2brkBge0kpELa-spdB1-nrt0cdwj3Vn0YuQnu8ojWA44XSGnpS4OQ3t8M


Do you already know when to test the Hyundai i20 WRC for the first time?

Tänak: Our contracts run until the end of the year. But manufacturers usually agree that drivers can test for their new team earlier. We are talking about that right now. If everything works out, I should be in Hyundai for the first time before Christmas.

[EstWRC]

nice compilation vid of the world champ going flat-out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Oo3sN-iHc

[Jewy46]

nice compilation vid of the world champ going flat-out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Oo3sN-iHc

Great video. I think it's a pity he's moving to Hyundai because of how spectacular the combo of him and the Toyota was. One of those rare perfect combinations like McRae/Impreza 555, Makinen/Lancer, Loeb/C4, Solberg/Impreza S10 etc (I'm sure there's plenty I'm leaving out) that just everything seemed at one between car and driver.


Having seen it live it looked like he was wringing the neck of it every time he passed, the noise as well was fantastic, flat out on the limit.


To me the Hyundai never seems as good to watch but maybe with Tanak at the wheel that will change. Let's see....

[SubaruNorway]

The video i put together from this year, he's inch perfect everywhere!
https://youtu.be/11mB2mVAAmo

[cali]

https://www.delfi.ee/a/88160167

Basically a preview to a longer story which will be published tomorrow.

Few key moments:

- Märtin is saying that already 2018 there were crisis within the team and it was not the best environment to be in

- says Ott made a bold decision to sign with Hyundai and team up with Neuville

- all cars in the WRC are good and have won stages and rallies

- it was very difficult decision to leave Toyota

- Hyundai is the only real factory team

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

just wanted to post this, i hope the longer interview is good one tomorrow but usually it isnt. The reporter says that all the reasons will be revealed tomorrow ,yeah right...

just longer sentences what cali already put here

Märtin said:
"There was a small crisis in the team (Toyota) last year and the environment hasn't been the best. Despite that, the work was done and the results came. It was a tough decision to leave because the manufacturer is involved in rallying at a high management level. But at the same time it was a private team like M-Sport. We can call Hyundai the real works team"

On Tänak:
"It was a decision that required balls - to go to the team where his main rival (Neuville) has been for a long time. I believe it's the right place for him and he gets to do his own things. Time will tell.."

[meh]

Actually I'm quite surprised that they got at least something from Märtin. Usually he avoids Estonian journalists.

[cali]

Actually I'm quite surprised that they got at least something from Märtin. Usually he avoids Estonian journalists.Actually that's why I posted it here. If it would have been any other person or any other story I just would have ignored it. It's very rare to get something out of Markko Märtin.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[cali]

https://epl.delfi.ee/wrc/pikk-intervjuu-markko-martin-ott-tanaku-lepingu-teemadel-kirjutati-igasugu-jama-ja-palju-valet?id=88159671

The whole story with Märtin. Don't have time to translate it right now but this interwiev is a direct blow to Mäkinen and his leading abilities.

Have a nice read!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[meh]

Actually I'm quite surprised that they got at least something from Märtin. Usually he avoids Estonian journalists.

I read it, it's good, argumented view from insider, and I got the reason - it's response for the shitstorm from Finnish media (or to their sources like Jouhki, to be precise). It's Clarification and view from the other side.

I leave translation to someone with better english. But one is for sure, it will be translated to other languages by media also - starting from Finnish media.

[EstWRC]

Markko Märtin does not understand why the Finns needed to throw stupid lies in the media about the new contract of Ott Tänak.

Ott Tänaks new-season contract was as important a topic in rally-writing media as the debate over who will become the world champion. In the end, it turned into a saga that lasted for months and ended in an ugly ending that ended with the transition from Toyota's racing team to Hyundai. “Ott already said in April that he would like to decide things quickly about the future so that he concentrate doing his things this year. Unfortunately, there are always two parties in a contract. You can really want it, but if the other side doesn't move at the same pace, things will not move on, ”says Markko Märtin, a mentor of Tänak, during the talks. “Our first thought was Toyota, but we also looked around. Ott was clearly the first choice man, he didn't have to wait for anyone and he could decide what he wanted to do. ”

According to Märtin, team selection decisions are very complex. What matters is the conditions offered, the technical capabilities of the team, the person leading the team, and so on. “In addition, we are talking about predicting the future. Things that are today may not be so tomorrow and we will find out only the day after tomorrow, ”he says, adding that the whole process was made uncomfortable mainly by misinformation thrown by the Finnish media. It went crazy after realizing that Tänak could leave Toyota. “It was very unprofessional to speak in that way. Why they did it, I don't know. Apparently they tried to show that everyone else was at fault, not them. What was the benefit of going personal and lying… just blacking out other people. ”

Markko Märtin, it is said that for you and Ott the Toyota team door in the service park has now closed. Is it so?

Don't know, haven't heard. We didn't make any moves that were wrong and ugly. The decision was negative for Toyota, but all the options were presented to them that the outcome could have been positive. Nobody fooled anyone or made any circus. Ott was out of contract and could decide what he wants.

Finland's so-called "super manager" Timo Jouhki rated your and Tänak's work getting a new contract unprofessional.

I wouldn't overestimate this star managers sayings . Jouhk's last world champion was back in the last century and it was Mäkinen. After that, Marcus Grönholm came from the opposite camp and, but despite Jouhk's opposition, got his chances. Later, only money-buyed drivers have got seats and the careers with talent drivers been been messed up. I would not rate this career anything special.

It turns out that some men have an aura bigger than they really are.

If you have a lot of money, you can buy everything and succeed before others. However, this is not possible when you are leaving Estonia. With Ott we have worked with minimum resources and tried to make the most of it. It's very hard, but in the same time more cooler.

So what happened with the Toyota team? There were a lot of rumors about how things got worse over time and people started to leave. How much did it all affect?

Last year was a small crisis for the team and the environment hasn't been the easiest. Nevertheless, the result has come and the work has been done. At the same time, it all played a part in our decision. The decision to leave Toyota was difficult because as a car manufacturer, they are involved in rallying at management level and they want to do the big and right thing. However, it was a private team, as was M-Sport. Hyundai can be considered a factory team.

How big was the controversy between Toyota factory bosses and Tommi Mäkinen, who led the rally team? I guess they didn't have quite the same interest.

The claims that we bypassed Mäkinen and communicated directly with the Japanese are pure lies! The Japanese were at the forefront of all decisions concerning drivers. They had the will to continue with our collaboration, but the team's management couldn't convincingly suggest that continuing there was a good plan. In the end, the factory pays money, but they do not deal with everyday life.

So where did these stories come from?

You have to ask those who wrote such crap. In fact, most of what the Finnish media threw into the air was wrong.

How much of your purchase was affected by Toyota's numerous technical issues? After all, Tänak was repeatedly dissatisfied.

Certainly there were too many problems and they affected Ott's result to a lesser or greater extent. We had to think about whether this is normal or whether we would like to experience it in the future or we have had enough.

There was no hope for things to improve in your opinion?

You never know what the future will bring, everything can change. You can still decide on what has been and what the feeling says about the future. But it wasn't convincing enough.

How much discussion did you have with Mäkinen?

There were many discussions, but it is certain that no one fooled him. Mäkinen could have done a deal with Otti if he had wanted it on the right time.

When was the right time?

When things were on the table, for example, in August and September, there were still opportunities. However, if the goalkeeper goes to the bench at some point in football, there is a high probability that the opponent scores.

It turns out that Mäkinen did not really want this agreement.

Hard to say, but if I had wanted such a driver then I would have done things differently.

What did you expect from Mäkinen then?

The normal approach is that things can be done reasonably and efficiently. Claims that Ott demanded number one status in the team ... there never wasnt such a demand! Speed shows who is first in the team and who is second. Ott was able to win his title and his wins this year without the support of the team. Sometimes it made me wonder why this is so. Had they had more sensible approach, the manufacturer's title would also have been won quite easily. Unfortunately, Ott only had to rely on himself, but he did it.

How should things have been done then?

Just like Andrea Adamo did.

So the Toyota team lacked a bit...

Everything is relative. If you don't want to win titles, you don't have to set anything. If you want the best for your team, you can do it differently.

Did you insist on a clause in the contract so that Tänak could fly a private jet to the rally?

I wouldn't go into the details. It is a continous activity that demands and questions were asked and if they werea nswered with no then you move on. There wasnt a single thing where we said we only want it this way and if we dont get it then we dont care. If there has been a will to agree, then we had done so. Much has been said that our decisions were only based about money. It was not! Even two years ago, Ott's decision to go Toyota was not motivated by money, rather the opposite. So this time step was not a financially motivated decision either. However, Ott has been the fastest man of the last two and a half years and why shouldn't he have a good contract?

Toyota was not ready to pay enough then.

I said it was not a financially motivated transition. After all, teams understand that Ott needs to get his maximum right now. The financial number was not a problem from one side or the other. Inside everybody knows what the price is.

The opportunities and conditions are more important then.

That's the whole package. You have to be happy with the decision you make. That your athletic expectations will be fulfilled and that the people you work with must fit. It's not cool to go to work if the environment isnt good or the environment doesn't want you to be. After all, the decisions made only by money will still not work.

What made you realize that the Mäkinen team doesn't really want to keep Tänak in their team?

I can't say there was only one thing, but you can see if they really are behind you and do the maximum for you. You can sense how the rallies are planned and whether this vision is the same or different.

Rumours spread that you actually had the ambition to lead the Toyota rally team.

A mega foggy rumours were invented ... like all those other things. The same rumours were that i want to represent R5 cars. In fact, this is all nonsense invented by the Finnish people and thrown into the media. I certainly do not want to lead any team, nor is there any weight at the bowl with the R5 cars. That would only mean sweat, and the revenue in the contract could be measured only by some commas. We have been working with our team for 15 years and this is not something that should be taken to extreme decisions.

It is strange why these stories came about so much.

I have the same question myself. This is an idiotic thing that happened. People who are likely to know about this commented, but they lied to the media. However, those who knew should not actually have shared such information at all.

Toyota was half an Estonian team: Tänak drove, Estonians worked.

Having the base in Estonia is a good tax decision, no other content and sense isnt there. Actually it is rather difficult to run a rally team in two places. The Estonians working in the team are still ordinary mechanics, and no one has been raised to the second level. It is purely a Finnsh team.

How much of the rumours affected the negotiations?

The stories went quite bad in the end, but it's a recognizable handwriting. But there was no point from the media being upset that they were being fooled. If you ask the same question every two days, nothing will change. No one can say anything until things are agreed.

When did going to Hyundai become a reality?

They were in the picture all the time. Like I mentioned previously about the soccer goalkeeper - it happened when the goalkeeper hit the bench.

[EstWRC]

Why did Mäkinen make such a move?

I dont know. For me it wasnt sensible. I've come to conclusion that I don't understand how the things are working in that team.

At the same time, Hyundai also sent out a signal that the negotiations with them had ended. It later emerged that Adamo was fooling the public with this story.

When he said that, it was the most interesting moment in the negotiations. The message was wrong, but he played his game very well… with that move he played Tommi on to the bench (meaning soccer wise)

A quote from Adamo appeared in the media saying that if he had known how you would negotiate, he would never have been a fan of you.

I haven't seen this statement myself, but I imagine what and how he said it. I believe it was probably translated in a wrong way. Rather, he meant that I was a good opponent for him to fight with.

It seemed that in the second half of the season - but maybe before - the relations between Tänak and Mäkinen were not the best.

I can't comment on that.

You believe that this did not affect the possible conclusion of the contract.

All things affect. In fact, the interaction of all things and the calculations affect the talks.

Is your heart happy now that you got the perfect deal?

It was a decision that required balls - to go to the team where his main rival (Neuville) has been for a long time. But I believe this is the right place for him and he can do his own things there. Nowadays, all cars in the WRC series are good. Time will tell how he is doing there: how he gets used to the car and whether the team can adjust it to his comfort.

In the new season, Hyundai will be the only factory team in the WRC Series.

The fact that Citroën quit, the drivers decision plays actually a big role there. The relationship between the French was not the best anymore and you could say that the driver turned the head of the team upside down, and Ogier has a big part of them quitting. There have been talks that Ott also wanted to turn the team in his way, but in fact he just wanted to drive well and not engage in politics.

Top drivers are all great personalities who want perfection. Is it going to interfere at some point?

I can't imagine how it could be different at the top of the sport. This is the only way to achieve something.

[EstWRC]

What was the relationship with the M-Sports team? Tänak has kind of debt of gratitude ahead Malcolm Wilson.

You shouldn't go there because of a debt of gratitude. I have a good relationship with the M-Sports team, but I don't think Tänak should have decided based on what has happened in the past.

However, they were in the negotiating game.

Wilson understands very well what it means to have a top driver for the team. They wanted Ott, but they don't have the options like the others. At the same time, it is clear that M-Sports can do great things. Had Ott stayed there two years ago, he would have probably become world champion last year.

You said that money was not the key when signing the contract. At the same time, Tänak is a world champion and in this status the cream must be stripped.

That is why you should not accept less if you can get more. But I repeat, that decision was not only for money.

You think the near future in Hyundai team will be the strongest and the package they offer is more promising.

The team depends a lot on how it is managed. A good manager can do a lot and a bad manager can turn good things into something bad. The important thing is to have the right direction.

The Hyundai team has been there for a long time. The factory demanded wins, but they didn't come.

Winning titles is not easy. They've been in the picture all the time, but they haven't had as much luck as Toyota. This year they acted a little more aggressively and everything started to work in their favor. There were two men on the Toyota team who could mess things up. You can say they were the Hyundai drivers in Toyota ... The first presumption for winning is still that you are being able to finish the rally.

Are you disappointed that this is how things went with Toyota. Two years ago, you were probably expecting a longer cooperation?

The cooperation with Toyota was attractive and it would have been nice to continue together, especially as a world champion.

[EstWRC]

This year's season says you're currently the world's best rally manager. Your driver was crowned World Champion.

I do not agree with manager status. We've been doing things with Ott for ten years. My role has been different and changing. Someone should help the driver with such activities, and I have done as much as I can and can do. I worked to get Ott what he needed. But the manager is the one who controls his drivers. We do what he wants, not what I want. We can discuss together, but he decides.

What was your emotion when Tänak secured the world title?

Of course, it is good to see that the last ten years of work came with a proud finish and this has led to the maximum. It is also good to see that the speed legend and driving style I initiated is good enough to win the title. Of course, Ott has further developed this. It's nice that I've been on a journey where one person can fulfill their dream of life. It was definitely a cool experience.

Could Tänak become the next long-term king of the WRC series?

That's hard to say. He goes to the Hyundai team where everything is new and the competition is very strong. I don't think he will lose his driving skills - moreover, I think this is a team that wants all their drivers to drive very fast. As a driver myself, I experienced a different situation where the engineer knew best how things work and it didnt matter if the drivers hits the road or not. I believe everything is in Otts hands and he will manage it.

In pure speed, he hasn't had any opponents for a couple of seasons.

This is a bit of an arbitrary statement. There are different days and different rallies where one thing or another may be better suited for some drivers, but on average he has been still the fastest. You can't see what happens next because in January everything starts again from scratch. The title can affect the driver very well or very badly. The driver himself may not know exactly what will happen.

[EstWRC]

that was an hell of a interview, 4 posts long. lol....i did mostly with google translate and corrected the things what google translated oddly.

the first part is on page 41 if someone starts reading from this page.

his comment about Citroen leaving is also very interesting.

[Allez Andruet]

Thanks EstWRC!

That was a candid interview, now let's just wait if Mäkinen and/or Jouhki want to counter attack... get ya popcorns ready!

[Kradovech]

It's clear that Märtin is pissed off at the finnish media, thats probably the reason he agreed to such a long interview. A good read. Lets see how Toyota replies.

[meh]

It's clear that Märtin is pissed off at the finnish media, thats probably the reason he agreed to such a long interview. A good read. Lets see how Toyota replies.

To be precise - he clearly says that it's not media's fault as they write what they have told. Problem is with sources.

Now I wonder, what is the actual impact from Jouhki - first direct shitstorm via media, and second - how strong influence he has over Mäkinen and what kind of "advises" he have been giving.

[AnttiL]

Or how much influence Jouhki has from Mäkinen in his comments?

Like already said, that's one hell of an interview, thanks to EstWRC for translating!

[meh]

https://www.facebook.com/PostimeesSport/videos/2524714214310126/?t=3

check from 20:18+ how Tänak and Ogier are smiling when Mäkinen is talking about signing Tänak's contract. Any body-language experts here?

This Tänak's body language on GB press-conference was disturbing me - the face said clearly "nice bullshit, dude". It all makes sense now.

[meh]

Or how much influence Jouhki has from Mäkinen in his comments?

Like already said, that's one hell of an interview, thanks to EstWRC for translating!

Good point. And now I have another wonder - if and how something will be reviewed from Japan.

[cali]

Just a small notion which comes to this translation. I think the most funniest part was in the interview about Toyota's other drivers and I would like interpret this a little bit differently than stated in ESTWRC translation.

"The best Hyundai drivers were those 2 other guys driving for Toyota."

I actually bursted a good laugh out if it in the morning. But it is clear for everyone that in this interview Markko is quite mad about the shitstorm which was feeded into finnish media.

[meh]

I actually bursted a good laugh out if it in the morning. But it is clear for everyone that in this interview Markko is quite mad about the shitstorm which was feeded into finnish media.

I like that Märtin is #nofilter guy, no politically correct PR crap, just pure and raw opinons which are fact-based and argumented, no throwing shit loaded with fantasies. Not declaring that he is the best guy or manager in the world etc.

[Allez Andruet]

Or how much influence Jouhki has from Mäkinen in his comments?

This IMO is maybe the most essential point in the whole saga. Not saying it's Mäkinen speaking through Jouhki, but we all know the history of these two, and atleast for me it'd be hard to believe that they have not discussed the topic in the manner that everyone can sense from Jouhki's words. If Tänak and Märtin have felt the same way, it's no surprise they looked elsewhere. First and foremost you do business with people you want to do business with and on that game (in the eyes of OT and MM) Adamo hands down sparked out Mäkinen.

[Indreq]

Thanks EstWRC!

That was a candid interview, now let's just wait if Mäkinen and/or Jouhki want to counter attack... get ya popcorns ready!

Already bunch of Finnish media sites have picked it up and quoted selected bits from there (nobody has done full translation). No juicy replys/opinions/comments yet. But they will come :D

[robertr]

Already bunch of Finnish media sites have picked it up and quoted selected bits from there (nobody has done full translation). No juicy replys/opinions/comments yet. But they will come :D

I read the comment sections and Finns are really pissed off. Many terrible and sometimes even racist comments against Tänak, Märtin and Estonians in general.

Estonians have always rooted Finnish rally drivers as "almost our own". I hoped that Tänak will be regarded in Finland with the same way. From these comments I can see that some Finns have a huge inferiority complex and no wonder Tänak felt 'unloved' in Toyota as some sources claim.

[dimviii]

wow a hell of interview.Thanks EstWRC!

http://lnx.pesasardignablog.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/shitstorm-300x166.jpg

Guys i d like a NOT comment about this interview.https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/oldforum/adminpower.gifhttps://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/sarcastic.gif

[dimviii]

Ott Tänak
@OttTanak
·
1h
These two years has been really successful together with
@TGR_WRC
. I'd really like to thank each and every one of you, as without you it wouldn't have been possible to achieve my lifetime dream.
��


Domo Arigato, Kiitos, Thank You, Aitäh, Danke Schön!
��


https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/1198953698166288385


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKOKBjZW4AAyZq9?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKOKBjbXYAAkwPS?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKOKBjaWkAAIQNy?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKOKBjaWsAAYsm0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Rally Power]

that was an hell of a interview, 4 posts long. lol....i did mostly with google translate and corrected the things what google translated oddly.


Thanks for the translation. Nice interview, but the crucial doubt remains: if Tanak/Martin weren’t asking to have 1st driver status, to get more money, to assume the R5 program or to replace Makinen as TGR manager, what on earth were they asking?

[cali]

I read the comment sections and Finns are really pissed off. Many terrible and sometimes even racist comments against Tänak, Märtin and Estonians in general.

Estonians have always rooted Finnish rally drivers as "almost our own". I hoped that Tänak will be regarded in Finland with the same way. From these comments I can see that some Finns have a huge inferiority complex and no wonder Tänak felt 'unloved' in Toyota as some sources claim.Nah easy there. These comments are like our Delfi comments. Lots of people verbally vomiting... There's enough primitives on both side of the pond. Better not to read them.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[meh]

I read the comment sections and Finns are really pissed off.

Comment-sections gods are probably not the smartest ones. Do not make conclusions on national level based on that. I mean, if you go and read comments section in Estonia (like delfi.ee), then you can read there probably pure stupidity. It's not smart to make conclusion, like all estonians think that way. I guess it's the same everywhere.

[EstWRC]

Thanks for the translation. Nice interview, but the crucial doubt remains: if Tanak/Martin weren’t asking to have 1st driver status, to get more money, to assume the R5 program or to replace Makinen as TGR manager, what on earth were they asking?

for me the question is what the hell was Tommi waiting for? Like Marrko says they were ready to make the deal in august/september but Tommi didnt.

This even further backs up my idea in the citroen thread (Ogier wanting to go to Toyota) that i think Tommi was waiting for Ogiers answer or he thought that Ott has nowhere else to go and he thought that Ott and Marrko lower their demands.

[meh]

Thanks for the translation. Nice interview, but the crucial doubt remains: if Tanak/Martin weren’t asking to have 1st driver status, to get more money, to assume the R5 program or to replace Makinen as TGR manager, what on earth were they asking?

I understood, that all they were asking was on table for signing, but Tommi didn't do that fast enough or didn't show motivation to do that.

[lnvs]

If it was all just "stupid lies" then any sensible person wouldn't bother to comment, let alone put more fuel to the flames. :laugh:

[Rally Power]

This even further backs up my idea in the citroen thread (Ogier wanting to go to Toyota) that i think Tommi was waiting for Ogiers answer or he thought that Ott has nowhere else to go and he thought that Ott and Marrko lower their demands.

Honestly, that’s hard to believe. In the interview it’s said that Martin and Tanak started to look (and talk?) to Hyundai on an early stage; they probably knew that their demands (whatever they were) couldn’t be satisfied by Makinen. If so, it’s not hard to imagine that Makinen would also look for a B plan (Ogier).

[Tarmop]

Well, getting Ogier with RB Money to his TMR+ probably Tänaks also with "where is he gone go" made him think that he had the best lineup+ two students next season.

Ofc there might have been talks about the length of the contract, with backing out possibilities.

[reff92]

That RedBull thing doesnt fit to Toyota camp. There is some Japan bosses who are against that already from Lappi time on there....

[Tarmop]

I can`t remember any connections between RB and Lappi before Citroen...

[able1]

I can`t remember any connections between RB and Lappi before Citroen...

Well same here , 2017 there was no Red Bull logos seen anywhere on the car or Lappis overalls. Probably got the sponsor as a package from Citroen ( to make car liveries same). But all that is just my thoughts about the matter.

[reff92]

Well same here , 2017 there was no Red Bull logos seen anywhere on the car or Lappis overalls. Probably got the sponsor as a package from Citroen ( to make car liveries same). But all that is just my thoughts about the matter.

IDK in Redbull athletes his name not in there(maybe he isnt). But point is that RB logo is no way visibe in Toyota car. Thats for sure.

[Allez Andruet]

IDK in Redbull athletes his name not in there(maybe he isnt). But point is that RB logo is no way visibe in Toyota car. Thats for sure.

Lappi's never been a Red Bull athlete.

Ofcourse at this time we don't know how the Yaris will look like 2020 (so far TGR has run zero RB athletes in WRC), but it wouldn't be the first time Gazoo Racing cars have RB livery.

1886

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sounds a good possibility that Makinen heard how uphappy Ogier was at Citroen (with the car) and so didnt rush to sign Tanak knowing he could replace him if necessary.

Tanak's criticism of the TMR team car's problems also must've upset Tommi a bit.

[TypeR]

Emn.. BS. Tänak was really calm and quiet about the car until the ECU problem this year.. It was basically the first/only times he said anything about the car and it was about that it is quite hard to fight fot the title, when problems like this still happen.
VS
One of the few technical problems Ogier had this year and his wifey bursts out some dumb stuff

[abcrally]

Toyota don't need Red Bull money to run their motorsport programs. Toyota has their Gazoo Racing livery both rally and circuit, surely there will never be as massive RB logos on Toyota as they had on Citroen and M-Sport Ford.

[Allez Andruet]

Tanak's criticism of the TMR team car's problems also must've upset Tommi a bit.

If Tommi tolerated Latvala's onboard bursts in Poland and Finland 2017, I'm sure he didn't bother that much for Tänak's quite mild statements.

[Crazy J]

Thanks EstWRC!

That was a candid interview, now let's just wait if Mäkinen and/or Jouhki want to counter attack... get ya popcorns ready!

When is the last time we have seen a passionate outburst from Makinen? ;) I'm pretty confident there won't be any. For example lately in Japan he continued to spoke in normal Tommi style. Yet, would be amazed if TMR/MMM&OT will do some co-operation after this. Maybe TMR even might do, but MMM&OT pretty sure have decided that they won't re-start co-operation in any format.

What comes to Jouhki, Jouhki money has given hard time to many up and coming drivers from 90's onwards and it's clear that many of those drivers does not appreciate what the pay driver approach effect to drivers market has done. Nevertheless money has always had some role in drivers market.


But good interview with Markko, thanks for translating EstWRC!

Especially the points below feel interesting and would be nice to hear more from Markko, what he meant with those in practise. Maybe Delfi could do an additional interview.


So what happened with the Toyota team? There were a lot of rumors about how things got worse over time and people started to leave. How much did it all affect?

Last year was a small crisis for the team and the environment hasn't been the easiest...

So the Toyota team lacked a bit...

Everything is relative. If you don't want to win titles, you don't have to set anything. If you want the best for your team, you can do it differently.

What made you realize that the Mäkinen team doesn't really want to keep Tänak in their team?

I can't say there was only one thing, but you can see if they really are behind you and do the maximum for you. You can sense how the rallies are planned and whether this vision is the same or different.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It seemed that in the second half of the season - but maybe before - the relations between Tänak and Mäkinen were not the best.

I can't comment on that.

This can be the only explanation.

[mmm]

It seemed that in the second half of the season - but maybe before - the relations between Tänak and Mäkinen were not the best.

I can't comment on that.

This can be the only explanation.

That was not actually what he was saying, that was a bad translation unfortunately. Basically what he was trying to say was ''I don't know anything about that.''

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That was not actually what he was saying, that was a bad translation unfortunately. Basically what he was trying to say was ''I don't know anything about that.''

So he knows all about the situation but doesn't know how relations were between Tanak and Makinen ?

Sure. :rolleyes:

[Tarmop]

Look at Tänak arriving in SP after his victories, rally ADAC for example. Things might have gotten a bit cooler after that contract thing in September though.

[meh]

That was not actually what he was saying, that was a bad translation unfortunately. Basically what he was trying to say was ''I don't know anything about that.''

In so sensitive and explosive interview most of the meaning may come from HOW it was said.

This "I can't comment on that" is not "I know but I can not say it for you", but from estonian media I would explain it with "I have not heard anything about this" / "I don't know what are you talking about".

At the same time he probably don't want to wash dirty underwear in media and burn some bridges, in case there is some still left to burn.

[abcrally]

Markko knows 1-2 person(s) in Toyota with whom Tänak had poor relations but he don't want to give public comment to make a fuzz about it.
The relations were the biggest reason for Tänak to leave. Same goes with Lappi at the end of 2018.

[EstWRC]

Lastly, Ott, I am happy like myself that you finally achieved your dream, becoming World Rally Champion. Myself and Toyota are very proud of helping to achieve it.
Unlike Mr. Tomoyama (President, GAZOO Racing Company), I have not been good at climbing the podium, but you taught me how to do it in Finland last year. Thanks to you, I could see the view from the top of the podium and get to know how sticky the champagne is. I really appreciated it.

I think your decision, “After achieving the goal, I want a new challenge with different environment”, is simply amazing. You will become Toyota’s rival next year. For us, having a strong rival is big motivation to move forward.
Because you have taught me how to stand on the top of the podium and how to open champagne bottles well, I can shower the champagne to you from higher position when we see each other the next time. See you again on the podium!

https://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2019/wrc/1127-01.html

[dimviii]

Lastly, Ott, I am happy like myself that you finally achieved your dream, becoming World Rally Champion. Myself and Toyota are very proud of helping to achieve it.
Unlike Mr. Tomoyama (President, GAZOO Racing Company), I have not been good at climbing the podium, but you taught me how to do it in Finland last year. Thanks to you, I could see the view from the top of the podium and get to know how sticky the champagne is. I really appreciated it.

I think your decision, “After achieving the goal, I want a new challenge with different environment”, is simply amazing. You will become Toyota’s rival next year. For us, having a strong rival is big motivation to move forward.
Because you have taught me how to stand on the top of the podium and how to open champagne bottles well, I can shower the champagne to you from higher position when we see each other the next time. See you again on the podium!

https://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2019/wrc/1127-01.html

yeap i mentioned that when i read it.
Imho i wouldnt said that.

[EstWRC]

yep, sounds odd

[jparker]

Ok, let's assume Jouhki lied. What is the reason behind it?

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

Here we go, Mäkinen finally replies to the Märtin interview

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11090636

Mäkinen mostly just says "I don't know, I don't understand, I haven't heard anything like that, I don't recognize myself from that"

Then there is Riku Tahko, ex-driver, who is often used as an "expert" with YLE sports. He believes firmly that the R5 business was the main reason in the debate, although Märtin claimed otherwise.

Mäkinen also says the Toyota R5 project is "not even decided yet" and "if it comes, it will be at least two years in the making". Tahko says it's down to the current base model not being suitable.

Oh, and by the way, Timo Jouhki is not interviewed!

[Allez Andruet]

Oh, and by the way, Timo Jouhki is not interviewed!

...yet!

[meh]

Mäkinen mostly just says "I don't know, I don't understand, I haven't heard anything like that, I don't recognize myself from that"

He may play blind, or he is blind, or it's just required PR to keep things calm. Rises a question, is he aware of situation or not. I got some feeling from this, that if Tänak wanted some changes with car he didn't get those (fast enough).



Then there is Riku Tahko, ex-driver, who is often used as an "expert" with YLE sports. He believes firmly that the R5 business was the main reason in the debate, although Märtin claimed otherwise.

Märtin seems to me really direct and nofilter guy, he do not say a lot, but if he do, he says what he thinks with hitting and hurting truth. I don't know anything about Riku Tahko person, but if person only talking about believes, it's called religion. Arguments are not important there.


Oh, and by the way, Timo Jouhki is not interviewed!

I don't know situation in Finland but previously - was he running to media more himself or he was "easy-to-call" to get some clickbiters to newsfeed?

[AnttiL]

I don't know situation in Finland but previously - was he running to media more himself or he was "easy-to-call" to get some clickbiters to newsfeed?

I'd say easy to call, but I just mentioned that because I've heard accusations that Finnish rally media is just ramblings of Jouhki :D

[reff92]

I think what a good media would do is get phone call to Tommi and ask directly from tommi not publishing some so called experts toughts - just for advise.

I thought that Estonian media is only rubbish but its worldwide.

[AnttiL]

I think what a good media would do is get phone call to Tommi and ask directly from tommi

This is exactly what they have done in this article. He just doesn't say anything.

[deephouse]

Mäkinen also says the Toyota R5 project is "not even decided yet" and "if it comes, it will be at least two years in the making". Tahko says it's down to the current base model not being suitable.


So that mean that they don't even start that project. No wonder that Tanak left them if they are bunch of only talking people.

What if WRC main category will be R5 cars? TGR don't have anything to offer at the moment and he says it's 2 year development... And they don't even start to think about it. Oh, I mean they are thinking about it for like 3 years now. Their minds must have so much imagination...

[Tarmop]

Tahko writes it was the R5 project , Mäkinen doesn't know why. One of them is lying.

[br21]

Toyota R5 test car drives already for couple of months

[er88]

Ofcourse Martin would claim it wasn't to do with the R5 business, even if it was.

We likely will never know for sure. Too many conflicting reports from various sides

[dimviii]

We likely will never know for sure.

we will know,if MMM run hyundais r5 programm.
Just few weeks ago we saw their brand new fiesta mk2 r5 for sale.

[er88]

we will know,if MMM run hyundais r5 programm.
Just few weeks ago we saw their brand new fiesta mk2 r5 for sale.If that happens and it transpires the R5 project was the big deal behind this move...

Then that really isn't going to look good for Martin & Tanak, if he isn't as competitive/ fast/ dominant in the I20 as he was in the Yaris.

[Tarmop]

Well...then why didn`t Mäkinen sya, that yes, there was this thing that came between them, running the R5 project...instead he just says "i don`t know", when he actually does...and saying that would take the heat of him (and else in and around the stable).

As for MM selling one (actually another also, prevoius gen. R5), might got something to do with the fact that there isn`t Katsuta anymore and one car to rent is sufficient enough...they actually sold their first Fiesta R5 very soon also, chassis no. 4 was bought in July 2013 and in january 2014 it was already owned by Stohl...since then they have bought and sold a few i believe.

[cali]

Deleted

[AnttiL]

Well...then why didn`t Mäkinen sya, that yes, there was this thing that came between them, running the R5 project...instead he just says "i don`t know", when he actually does...and saying that would take the heat of him (and else in and around the stable).

If you refer to this latest YLE article, Mäkinen doesn't say "I don't know" about MMM running the Toyota R5 program. What he says about R5 cars

- They have quite a lot of research of R5 car
- They have done preparing and market research
- They have no decision on how they will work
- The decision will come from Japan
- The R5 car won't be seen in action in a while, it will take at least two years
- It's not planned for the current model
- The R5 project is not even agreed to be done at TMR

[TypeR]

So I really doubt, that there was anything to do with Märtin wanting to run the whole R5 project or smth, if they really don't even know much about it..

[EstWRC]

When asked by the Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat to comment on Märtin's statement, Jouhki said: "He said in the interview that my last world champion was Tommi Mäkinen. I can answer that since that my drivers have won 35 rallies, have had many second places in the championship, having become the WRC2 World Champion and so on. So I can't possibly consider myself a man of last winter. If a man like Marrko starts to criticise then let him have his own opinion"

[cali]

When asked by the Finnish newspaper Ilta-Sanomat to comment on Märtin's statement, Jouhki said: "He said in the interview that my last world champion was Tommi Mäkinen. I can answer that since that my drivers have won 35 rallies, have had many second places in the championship, having become the WRC2 World Champion and so on. So I can't possibly consider myself a man of last winter. If a man like Marrko starts to criticise then let him have his own opinion"Yeah I read it too. He actually doesn't answer the question just acts like he's superior but no on point answers

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

This seems to have really hit the mark on Jouhki which is actually really funny.

In that same period just Gronholm alone (the non-Jouhki Finnish driver) had 29 rally wins, Ogier 47 and Loeb 79, brings some perspective to those numbers.

[abcrally]

This seems to have really hit the mark on Jouhki which is actually really funny.

In that same period just Gronholm alone (the non-Jouhki Finnish driver) had 29 rally wins, Ogier 47 and Loeb 79, brings some perspective to those numbers.

Feels even more funny if we mention Jouhki's last WRC champion was Mäkinen during the previous century:)
In the future the manager will get one more champion under his belt (Rovanperä) but I think Kalle would have gone to Toyota with or without Jouhki's management.

[EstWRC]

WRC 2019 - Season Onboard Ott Tänak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8xouXHgIYI

[EstWRC]

Jon Noble asked Ott at the FIA gala how the Hyundai test was but like always he avoided the question and started talking instead about changing the team, when he finished Noble asked again: "But was it comfortable?" and Ott kind of ironically answered:"yes it was" :D

if anybody is intesrested you can watch he Gala here https://www.facebook.com/pg/fia/videos/?ref=page_internal (the stream went offline now, Otts interview is first if you replay it)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ott seemed very relaxed about the questions on moving to Hyundai. He said there were no hard feelings between him and Makinen.

Could be another pointer that Tommi had Ogier lined-up all along...

[EstWRC]

https://www.upload.ee/image/10813903/Capture.JPG

[dimviii]

ΕstWRC Christmas present
https://youtu.be/-mDBJQP0DB8

[EstWRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147571/tanak-plays-down-rivalry-with-neuville-at-hyundai

Asked if he felt he was joining Neuville's team, Tanak replied: "Actually, Andrea [Adamo, Hyundai team director] invited me to join his team, so I can say I am going to join the Adamo team!

:D

[eib1]

World Champion fan stuff available

http://www.otttanakshop.com/en/c/world-champion-special

[Crazy J]

Cool sunglasses in the shop, but no size mentioned. Maybe they will fit for all ;)

[EstWRC]

That’s it, 2019 season is done and dusted!
Thank you every team member, thank you fans! �� This incredible season and time with TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRC has come to an end with our final event at Fuji Speedway. ��

https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/1206154110262792193?s=20

final runs with the Toyota car https://twitter.com/TOYOTA_GR/status/1206159464853696514?s=20

https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80362381_2526663237432730_7104506245574295552_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQn_IOCW28Oj95QLtX7_DC5pgZSor_TjCNx53EEt95N 43yKxo8MwObzUiOn6wkS-7JU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=8faa97a8af8aadfea1adb724e0953fc7&oe=5E70B41A

[drive]

World Champion fan stuff available

http://www.otttanakshop.com/en/c/world-champion-special

just few days and all sunglasses are gone? or they didnt start selling yet?

[eib1]

received mine yesterday, so sold out i think

[EstWRC]

i dont remember how those exactly looked but the company who made them, Prosawood, offers adding your own engraving on the sunglasses, so you can basically make the same ones (although most of the sunglasses are out of stock atm)https://www.prosawoodshop.com/en/product-category/sunglasses/

its a very cool estonian company, shipping is free worldwide

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENRamEkXUAAcQBL?format=jpg&name=360x360
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENRalzJXUAASdvK?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENRalzDX0AA3VVl?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENRYgXBXYAAEnHq?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENRcmq9WsAEyewR?format=jpg&name=small

[Oliverk]

Most of the questions answered here. Have to be fluent in Estonian :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgVFKPWN2k

[EstWRC]

Most of the questions answered here. Have to be fluent in Estonian :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgVFKPWN2k

shame it hasn got english subtitles, good interview

couple of outtakes

- its the first time he admits he wanted Sordo as a teammate, for years he says. But the heads at Toyota had different opinion.

- then again, first time he admits that at the end of the last season he wanted some support from teammates. Says that before rally finland there was talk that Meeke and Latvala wont push but they simply denied it

- Hyundais impressive development is one thing that convinced him to go there. Says Adamo was really convincing during the talks with talk about developments and etc

- the rim issues were all connected (Spain, MOnte Corsica)

- serious talks with Adamo started after Finland. Says the same what Märtin said in that long interview that Toyota didnt really made actual offer and the time just went on and on and on. they had different vision about the future/development.

- he is ready to work for Thierry if he hasnt got the chance to fight for the title himself. Says he has been in this situation in 17 while being teammates with Ogier but this time its different because in 17 he wasnt even allowed to compete with him.

- doesnt know how long he continues to drive but definitely not as long as Loeb is doing it

[cali]

And most important bit of news for us was that Bluuford is going to Hyundai with him!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Ah yes forgot that.

- Also claims that money wise he lost a little with this move but it isn’t the main thing. He wants a good car and team

- Plus he would like to try other things in future. Some circuit racing maybe or Dakar.

- Hyundai team is very professional. Manufacturer is south-Korean but since the team is based in Germany then everything is made with German punctuality

[Allez Andruet]

- serious talks with Adamo started after Finland. Says the same what Märtin said in that long interview that Toyota didnt really made actual offer and the time just went on and on and on.

Just thinking out loud, but could it be because Tänak and Märtin demanded the contract proposal to include the rumored R5 options? As that was an absolute no-go for Mäkinen, things never progressed to a point where even a draft contract could have been put on the table?

[cali]

Just thinking out loud, but could it be because Tänak and Märtin demanded the contract proposal to include the rumored R5 options? As that was an absolute no-go for Mäkinen, things never progressed to a point where even a draft contract could have been put on the table?Who knows, certainly today we cannot rule out that theory/possibility

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[meh]

Most of the questions answered here. Have to be fluent in Estonian :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgVFKPWN2k

Watched it finally, it was really good one (from Estonian media). Good job, mr Kruus. (for non-Estonian speaker, interviewer is mostly known for juicy metaphors and funny sayings).

[EstWRC]

btw they are working on english subtitles. so you all get to understand it soon.

[meh]

"DirtFish and World Rally Champion Ott Tänak join forces for 2020"

https://www.dirtfish.com/blog/dirtfish-and-world-rally-champion-ott-tanak-join-forces-for-2020/

Kind of campaign "WRC to North-America".

[Gregor-y]

Kind of campaign "WRC to North-America".

Most Americans forget Mexico is part of North America. The irony of that sentence not lost upon me.

Maybe a push for an event on the west coast, or some international advertising for their rally school. They build cars, too, though Washington state is a long way off for non US/Canada teams.

Dirtfish is just outside the city of Seattle, on the site of a former sawmill that was shown in the opening credits of Twin Peaks, a TV show from the early 90s.

[EstWRC]

closer look of the helmet https://www.instagram.com/p/B7QWZMKF9wW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/83288269_2588443911254662_3446990088611823616_o.jp g?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQlcxHIrZKtPAkEH_8AwMlKlo69nfy73ZpX6DRA8CWK M8H4S969nHZ1tkR_FElWgSuU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=d82acbb973acace97e72bdee764ea96f&oe=5EA76D34
https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82313293_749641652192384_926293891626303488_o.jpg? _nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQnTJXjszKhiGkSUeXqcdjp8106BAujswUQ0bBhGEKy N4KHiR66R6ofIZfPnyw_FH3E&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=19e313adc0416a2841bc0bcdd58a0d20&oe=5E9E3DD8
https://scontent.fhen1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/81637371_749641838859032_1297262912905150464_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnQZ0t0k3js1mFBjPDX4eVd9Adu1y1vEJsfT7WVkbi BjBRVcYdya99Z1ywIG8l9HCU&_nc_ht=scontent.fhen1-1.fna&oh=57c6e7564f71fb188ab649f938312be5&oe=5E9F5FC1

[cali]

Who knows, certainly today we cannot rule out that theory/possibility

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using TapatalkQuoting myself but this Hyundai R5 deal seems to be confirmed now between HMSG and RedGrey

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7S1ufDpDbB/?igshid=1riqfwa0keu9f

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk