vettel and his records

[CNR]

youngest f1 race winner
youngest f1 world championship winner
youngest f1 2 time world championship winner
most laps led in a season, leading his 693rd lap in 2011.
16 races out of 17 that he has been on the podium (top 4 all year so far)
top 3 in qualifying
with the new points he would have the most points in a year

with upto 20 races a year a lot of records could fall if he keeps going the way he is
with in 5 years he could have more wins than michael schumacher.


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/records-galore-for-vettel-ahead-of-raceday/197382-5-24.html


Greater Noida: There were records galore as newly-crowned world champion Sebastian Vettel of Red Bull scorched his way to the pole position -- his 13th of the season -- in the maiden Indian Grand Prix here on Saturday.

This was Vettel's 28th pole of his career and 13th this season, putting him just one behind Nigel Mansell's single season record of 14 pole positions, set in 1992.

Vettel is now equal sixth in the all-time standings alongside five-time champion Juan Manuel Fangio.

[ioan]

It certainly looks good for him, and it's a pleasure to witness this happening!
I still remember when he got his first pole position and won his first F1 race in Monza 2008 like it was today, what a great moment that defined the brilliant career that followed.

I'm a big MS fan, yet if Vettel can rewrite all his records than so be it, by the looks of it he'll be worth it.

[kfzmeister]

with upto 20 races a year a lot of records could fall if he keeps going the way he is
with in 5 years he could have more wins than michael schumacher.


Records galore for Vettel ahead of race day - Sports - Formula One - ibnlive (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/records-galore-for-vettel-ahead-of-raceday/197382-5-24.html)

And therein lies the problem. Next year everything will change and Vettel might get lucky to win a handful of races. Exotic mapping and diffuser bans are just a couple of reasons why RBRs dominance will seize.

[555-04Q2]

youngest f1 race winner
youngest f1 world championship winner
youngest f1 2 time world championship winner
most laps led in a season, leading his 693rd lap in 2011.
16 races out of 17 that he has been on the podium (top 4 all year so far)
top 3 in qualifying
with the new points he would have the most points in a year

with upto 20 races a year a lot of records could fall if he keeps going the way he is
with in 5 years he could have more wins than michael schumacher.


Records galore for Vettel ahead of race day - Sports - Formula One - ibnlive (http://ibnlive.in.com/news/records-galore-for-vettel-ahead-of-raceday/197382-5-24.html)

Yet quite a few idiots around here say he is overrated in the most overrated driver poll :laugh: :crazy:

2 + 2 = blank stare...

[Dave B]

The only thing I'd say as a note of caution is that there are more races in a season than ever before. So while that detracts absolutely nothing from Vettel's championships and race wins, nor from his phenomenal talent, it does make it rather silly to compare statistics like most laps led in a season or number of victories.

[SGWilko]

The only thing I'd say as a note of caution is that there are more races in a season than ever before. So while that detracts absolutely nothing from Vettel's championships and race wins, nor from his phenomenal talent, it does make it rather silly to compare statistics like most laps led in a season or number of victories.

Also, the reliability aspect resulting from the engine freeze, multi race gearbox requirements etc means retirements non self-inflicted are a lot less common than, say, 10 years ago. Then there is the lack of a tyre war, rule stability etc....................

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It has been an unbelievable year for him but beating Schumachers records will depend more on whether Red Bull can produce a dominant car for 5 successive seasons like Ferrari did (200-2004). I think Vettel will have more competition than Schumacher had which will make sustained domination more difficult. Alonso, Hamilton (2007-2010), Kubica and Raikkonen are a step ahead of Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Hill and Coulthard.

[ioan]

And therein lies the problem. Next year everything will change and Vettel might get lucky to win a handful of races. Exotic mapping and diffuser bans are just a couple of reasons why RBRs dominance will seize.

Take a look at 2009, no strange mappings, no funny diffuser, and yet very close to the Brawn GP car with is double diffuser.
There's more to a F1 car then that.

[ioan]

It has been an unbelievable year for him but beating Schumachers records will depend more on whether Red Bull can produce a dominant car for 5 successive seasons like Ferrari did (200-2004). I think Vettel will have more competition than Schumacher had which will make sustained domination more difficult. Alonso, Hamilton (2007-2010), Kubica and Raikkonen are a step ahead of Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Hill and Coulthard.

Kubica? Oh well.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Take a look at 2009, no strange mappings, no funny diffuser, and yet very close to the Brawn GP car with is double diffuser.
There's more to a F1 car then that.

I get the feeling that McLaren could suffer more than Red Bull after the EBDs are banned. McLaren are using the diffuser technology to cover up the aero shortcomings of their car. Remember at Silverstone how slow McLaren were.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Kubica? Oh well.

Well I can hope that he'll come back from injury stronger like Schu did in 1999 :p

[SGWilko]

I get the feeling that McLaren could suffer more than Red Bull after the EBDs are banned. McLaren are using the diffuser technology to cover up the aero shortcomings of their car. Remember at Silverstone how slow McLaren were.

Depends if they build a 5h!t car........

......again!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Depends if they build a 5h!t car........

......again!

The last 3 cars McLaren built have been poor.

2009 - only won races because they were the only team to master KERS and Hamilton was in great form that year.
2010 - only won races because of Buttons tyre decisions and the F-duct on fast circuits
2011 - lets look at each win individually:
China - win was mostly down to Lewis saving a set of tyres in qualifying
Canada - win was down to Buttons skill on slicks on a wet track/rare error from Vettel
Germany - a fast car that Lewis extracted the most out of
Hungary - Button again mastering changeable conditions
Japan - They had the fastest car

Red Bull have done a better job each year and Vettel has got better with each year.

[Mark]

The rules aren't likely to change very much for next year so Red Bull will still be the top team, perhaps Ferrari and McLaren can sort out their issues and give them a run for their money. But the problem is that in F1 you have to run to stand still and Red Bull have quite a head start. So in many ways McLaren and Ferrari have to do an even better job than Red Bull over the winter, just to get on level terms with them.

A saving grace is perhaps the theory that there is a theoretical maximum you can get out of the F1 rules at any one time, as you get close to the maximum the rate of improvement decreases, is Red Bull getting close?

[Bezza]

I have no problem with one team dominating, but what bothers me is the lack of two drivers with the ability (yes, ability) to make it a good fight between them.

Webber this season has been embarrassingly bad, and made Vettel look even better. I do not believe Vettel is a cut above Alonso or Hamilton - he may be equal, but not better.

Hopefully McLaren, Ferrari and maybe Mercedes can provide a better race next year. If not, then it will be 2011 all over again, because there is no chance of Webber doing anything.

2011 has been a massive "what might have been" for me. The rules have improved the show certainly, and some individual races have been great, but Red Bull's dominant car, Webber's lack of pace and other drivers seemingly scared to take on Vettel (see Hamilton at Korea on the first lap, yet he races 100% with Webber ?!) have meant 2011 has been a let down for me.

I just want 2011 to finish so we can hopefully have a better 2012. Unfortunately, I fear 2012 may be like 2002 !

[Bagwan]

Webber is a giant amongst jockeys .

[jens]

The 2011 season has indeed been a huge success for Vettel and looking at history, it is right up there with 2002 and 2004 as the most 'perfect' dominations in Formula One history in terms of maximizing results. Let's take a look. In 2002/04/11 we have had three different points systems, but if we calculated them all into one (let's take 10-8-6-...), then we would have the following information:
2002: Schumacher - 156 pts/17 races
2004: Schumacher - 148 pts/18 races
2011: Vettel - 153 pts/17 races (so far)

The only thing that Vettel misses from Schumacher's 2002 season is finishing on the podium in all races. Seriously after that year and especially after recent seasons of extremely tight competition I have thought we could never see that happening again, but Vettel has come oh-so-close to repeating that feat, missing out only in Germany by finishing 4th. :eek:

As for future records and questions whether Vettel can repeat Schumacher's incredible run of success in 00-04, then I have to say that current Red Bull really reminds me of that superb team of Team Schumacher and in terms of personnel they look very stable too. Surely after 2001 people were asking that Ferrari can't stay at the top forever, Williams, Michelin, new car manufacturers were coming up strong. But they stayed there. I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel kept on winning WDC's for a few more years. Certainly current Ferrari doesn't look particularly convincing, they haven't improved their design team much either, so they may remain in mediocrity. McLaren looks more promising, but remains to be seen if they have it in them to really beat RBR over a full season. Mercedes has hired some new staff, but if they ever were to make it to the titles, it would still take a couple of years.

What also helps Red Bull's case is that the rules will remain relatively stable for the next two years as well. And we have a fair bit restrictions, which means that RBR has fewer fears of missing out an important advantage. For example we don't have a tyre war, which for instance really cost Ferrari in both '03 and '05 after dominant seasons. Also we have engine freeze, so RBR doesn't need to fear that Renault suddenly falls 100 hp behind others. So it is really up to the Milton Keynes factory to deliver an excellent car - bigger emphasis is on what is produced in-house. Imagine McLaren and Ferrari were on a different tyre manufacturer than RBR - I think in this case the possibility of RBR's domination coming to an end would be much bigger.


I get the feeling that McLaren could suffer more than Red Bull after the EBDs are banned. McLaren are using the diffuser technology to cover up the aero shortcomings of their car. Remember at Silverstone how slow McLaren were.

I don't think McLaren was that slow at Silverstone, because Hamilton was on course for a Top3 finish had he not run out of fuel. And the Silverstone case doesn't mean much, because the 2012 cars will be designed differently. In the same way it could have been said during 2010 that Ferrari will gain or Red Bull will suffer in 2011, because Pirelli suits Ferrari's relative "kindness" to tyres or RBR hasn't had any experience with KERS. But once the new rules come to force, design teams will adapt to make the best out of the situation.

[SGWilko]

Every time I see this thread on the home page I think of an image of a spotty 14yr old Vettel holding some old vinyl LP's of Kraftwerk and that bird with the hairy pits that sung about Red Balloons......

[SGWilko]

Nena! :p

[kfzmeister]

Take a look at 2009, no strange mappings, no funny diffuser, and yet very close to the Brawn GP car with is double diffuser.
There's more to a F1 car then that.

Oh, but RB DID copy the diffusor!
A simple thing like changing the mapping dices up the order. Silverstone anyone?

[donKey jote]

Every time I see this thread on the home page I think of an image of a spotty 14yr old Vettel holding some old vinyl LP's of Kraftwerk and that bird with the hairy pits that sung about Red Balloons......
Could be worse: every time I see anything to do with Vettel I think of Justin Bieber :s

[Bagwan]

"Of course not because he knows we don't like it. We had done our best to manage it, we had turned all the engine modes down, KERS off, and short of putting a cow on the circuit there was not a lot else we could do." -Horner

After the last race , apparently , Seb said he wouldn't do it again .

It must be tempting , though , when you're in a car that has engine modes down and KERS off , and you can still grab the fastest lap .

Did Horner give a little too much away there ?
Are they , or is he , really that much faster than all the rest ?
Or , were they , or he , just demoralizing the opponents ?

[Bagwan]

Could be worse: every time I see anything to do with Vettel I think of Justin Bieber :s

Pavlov's donkey ?
Do you then run to the CD player , or do you skip ?

[Garry Walker]

Rapunzel is overrated and lucky. Look at what button did when he had the best car in the first half of 2009? No one will call him a special driver. Rapunzel has just been lucky in that he has had a more dominant car than what Button had for 2 years now (not to mention having the best car in the 2nd half of 2009 as well).

So far Rapunzel iis not good enough to smell Schumi's or Senna's farts.

[Mia 01]

Next to MS, vho is close to him? The best driver in this decade.

I understand Lewis.

[airshifter]

Rapunzel is overrated and lucky. Look at what button did when he had the best car in the first half of 2009? No one will call him a special driver. Rapunzel has just been lucky in that he has had a more dominant car than what Button had for 2 years now (not to mention having the best car in the 2nd half of 2009 as well).

So far Rapunzel iis not good enough to smell Schumi's or Senna's farts.

That must make Webber lucky, overrated, and very slow to boot. :laugh:

[ioan]

Oh, but RB DID copy the diffusor!
A simple thing like changing the mapping dices up the order. Silverstone anyone?

Only a crap pit stop by RBR lost Vettel the win there.

[Mia 01]

If it will be Seb and Kimi in RBR one of them will get the WDC every to come.

[kfzmeister]

Only a crap pit stop by RBR lost Vettel the win there.

Really? Ferrari certainly didn't look like 3rd fastest that weekend. Even tire temps weren't in their favor there!

[kfzmeister]

So far Rapunzel iis not good enough to smell Schumi's or Senna's farts.

Lmao!

[Koz]

Next to MS, vho is close to him? The best driver in this decade.

Mia, are you saying Vettel is better than Kimi????!!

[Mia 01]

Mia, are you saying Vettel is better than Kimi????!!

Yes, Seb isn´t faster than Kimi but he is moore consistent. Seb does very few mistakes.

[kfzmeister]

Yes, Seb isn´t faster than Kimi but he is moore consistent. Seb does very few mistakes.

BS! put Kimi, or anyone else for that matter, into the RB7!!!

[CNR]

Exactly, I think Kimi, Lewis, Jenson, and Fernando have all proved what they can do when they have the fastest car in the past. Seb is riding the crest of a wave at the moment and doing everything right, but he's only doing what all the other top drivers can do IMO.

how does any one know ducati sure made rossi and the same crew that turned yamaha in to a winner in the first year look average this year

[Mia 01]

Exactly, I think Kimi, Lewis, Jenson, and Fernando have all proved what they can do when they have the fastest car in the past. Seb is riding the crest of a wave at the moment and doing everything right, but he's only doing what all the other top drivers can do IMO.

To a very little degree you are right. For example, Seb is only agressive when needed, competing for fastest laps, yes, when both titles was secured. He keps his cool nearly everytime.

[Mia 01]

I´m still one of Jensons fans, his driving style reminds me of Sebs. Jenson is not only a very fast driver, he uses his brain as a strategic veapon, he and Fernando share that usefull skill.

Seb and Jenson is not only the fastest F1 drivers, they behave very good off track as far as I know of, not to cooky and arrogant.

And yes, two years at THIS board, I like it here. Chatting about F1 on the net since the beginning of 2000 if I remember correctly. Perhaps I OWN you that information.

[kfzmeister]

Name one guy currently that can take a sub par car and wring the piss out of it and even put it on a podium!!!

[kfzmeister]

I can only think of two drivers who have proven this in the past and they are Alonso and Hamilton. Both are able to adapt to cars with less than preferable setups and get the maximum out of it. Schumacher was also able to do this pre 2006. I know alot of people would say Vettel for his impressive win at Monza '08, but the Toro Rosso was hardly the worst car and their gamble of using a wet weather setup for qualy and the race paid dividends. Still impressive none the less.

Do people forget what circumstances actually put Vettel on pole that day? He didn't exactly beat the established teams/ drivers to take pole.
Also, i remember Hamilton complaining a lot when his car wasn't exactly a front runner, otherwise you're getting close! :)

[ioan]

Not being able to overtake Hamilton didn't help either.

At that point he had already lost 2 places (from the lead) due to the botched pit stop.

[ioan]

Do people forget what circumstances actually put Vettel on pole that day? He didn't exactly beat the established teams/ drivers to take pole.
Also, i remember Hamilton complaining a lot when his car wasn't exactly a front runner, otherwise you're getting close! :)

He did beat exactly the established team to take pole, unless somehow the big teams were not in Monza that week end.
Are you an Alonso fan by chance? You sure sound like one.

[ioan]

I can only think of two drivers who have proven this in the past and they are Alonso and Hamilton. Both are able to adapt to cars with less than preferable setups and get the maximum out of it. Schumacher was also able to do this pre 2006. I know alot of people would say Vettel for his impressive win at Monza '08, but the Toro Rosso was hardly the worst car and their gamble of using a wet weather setup for qualy and the race paid dividends. Still impressive none the less.

And when exactly were Renault and McLaren the worst cars, or worse than the 2008 STR? I'm not sure when did Hamilton and Alonso had to adapt to a car that was about 5th on the grid and won a race, care to share with us?

[ioan]

You've been following F1 long enough to know the answer to that question. If you want to take my post as a negative towards Vettel then thats your prerogative.

Exactly, there was no such occassion.

[Garry Walker]

Only a crap pit stop by RBR lost Vettel the win there.
Yeah, how sad that he gets one problem throughout the year, compared to about 30 problems for every other racer.


And when exactly were Renault and McLaren the worst cars, or worse than the 2008 STR? I'm not sure when did Hamilton and Alonso had to adapt to a car that was about 5th on the grid and won a race, care to share with us?
rapunzel never won a race with the 5th best car on grid, that STR was a monster that day at Monza, as witnessed by Bourdais' performance. It was probably the fastest car that day.

[ioan]

If thats what you think then fine but please be aware that is not what I suggested.

That's exactly what you wrote, no suggestion, it was black on white (no pun intended).

[ioan]

rapunzel never won a race with the 5th best car on grid, that STR was a monster that day at Monza, as witnessed by Bourdais' performance. It was probably the fastest car that day.

So did Bourdais finish 2nd and we all missed it?! LOL

[ioan]

No but he did qualify an impressive 4th and maybe if he hadn't stalled his car on the grid he may well have finished 2nd, who knows? He'd be an all time great now off the back of that performance lol.

So nowadays 4th is impressive, but being 1st in the very same car doesn't mean that the driver did rise above the level of the machinery? Just asking.

[kfzmeister]

He did beat exactly the established team to take pole, unless somehow the big teams were not in Monza that week end.
Are you an Alonso fan by chance? You sure sound like one.

He LUCKED into it that weekend, due to weather and some poor calls from Ferrari and McLaren during qualifying! You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Don't make it sound like he outdrove anybody that day. The real racing and impressive drives happened behind Vettel. Hamilton dicing through the field, Alonso and Kubica on a one stopper from midfield. Towards the end of the race, a half a dozen drivers were lapping more than a second faster than Vettel. He was gifted that day.

And yes, Alonso's my boi!

[jens]

rapunzel never won a race with the 5th best car on grid, that STR was a monster that day at Monza, as witnessed by Bourdais' performance. It was probably the fastest car that day.

I think McLaren was the fastest car on that day, not STR. Hamilton had a botched qualifying, but despite that he would have finished the race at least in P2 if he didn't have to make an extra pitstop due to changing weather and hence unfortunate strategy. Kovalainen drove a steady race and finished second, but his impression on podium said it all. I have rarely seen as miserable second place finisher as he was that day. I think he knew the race was his to win, but was unable to grab the opportunity.

[ioan]

He LUCKED into it that weekend, due to weather and some poor calls from Ferrari and McLaren during qualifying! You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.

You should have posted: 'I know it', it would have been credible.

[vhatever]

I find it funny that RBR is dominant -- but vettel is the only one who does the dominating, that STR "that year was a monster", but only with vettel driving it -- he had like 3 races he was in a good position to win. And now what happened to the STR "monster" how come not a single race since vettel has the team looked like they had even a prayer of winning?? RBR didn't even win one until vettel joined them. You vettel hating bigots are simply ridiculous, full stop. Vettel is the real deal and you will spend the next 10 years of your life fully constipated about becuase you can't just accept it and move on.

[ioan]

I find it funny that RBR is dominant -- but vettel is the only one who does the dominating, that STR "that year was a monster", but only with vettel driving it -- he had like 3 races he was in a good position to win. And now what happened to the STR "monster" how come not a single race since vettel has the team looked like they had even a prayer of winning?? RBR didn't even win one until vettel joined them. You vettel hating bigots are simply ridiculous, full stop. Vettel is the real deal and you will spend the next 10 years of your life fully constipated about becuase you can't just accept it and move on.

Cheers! :up:

[ioan]

STR are now designing their own cars rather than using rebranded Red Bulls as they were in 2008. You are right though Vettel is a hell of a designer/engineer and made the difference at STR and Red Bull. Its only a matter of time before Newey's cover is blown lol.

Seriously if you're going to insult members here with offensive names, at least justify it with something that doesn't sound like a football fan who's just learnt the ingredients off the back of a Ginsters pasty wrapper. :eek:


So much rubbish. You're getting desperate now that Vettel blew Hamy into the weeds and destroyed any trace of self confidence that Lewis 'sliced bread' Hamilton ever had.
Heck, even Button is looking down on him right now.

[CNR]

I find it funny that RBR is dominant -- but vettel is the only one who does the dominating, that STR "that year was a monster", but only with vettel driving it -- he had like 3 races he was in a good position to win. And now what happened to the STR "monster" how come not a single race since vettel has the team looked like they had even a prayer of winning?? RBR didn't even win one until vettel joined them. You vettel hating bigots are simply ridiculous, full stop. Vettel is the real deal and you will spend the next 10 years of your life fully constipated about becuase you can't just accept it and move on.

Q:how good he could have been if taken under the wing or the team owner at a young age

[F1boat]

Seb is great, but doesn't do crashes and maybe people don't like dominating champions.

[CNR]

FORMULA ONE - F1: Only Three Can Win Without Best Car - De la Rosa (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-only-three-can-win-without-best-car-pedro-de-la-rosa/)


"For me, Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are the only drivers who can win Grands Prix without having the best car on the grid," added de la Rosa.

[CNR]

one more for the record ?
first time in 61 years a pole sitter having a puncture on lap one

[ioan]

FORMULA ONE - F1: Only Three Can Win Without Best Car - De la Rosa (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-only-three-can-win-without-best-car-pedro-de-la-rosa/)

There's a huge list of drivers who did that, but still it doesn't include PDLR. ;)

[CNR]

There's a huge list of drivers who did that, but still it doesn't include PDLR. ;)
even an ex-f1 driver thinks that the red bull is not the best car

[Knock-on]

even an ex-f1 driver thinks that the red bull is not the best car


Where did he say that the Red Bull was not the best car? Are you claiming that because he thinks Seb, Lewis and Alonso are capable of winning in a car other than the best car, then he feels that the Mercedes is the best car on the grid?

He just didn't say anything remotely like what you claimed.

[jens]

Vettel and his records? Maybe Seb now has the record for the fastest puncture as well? :p : As hard as I'm trying to recall all races I have seen, I just cannot remember anyone ever suffering a puncture like that after a race start, except in contact with another car/barrier.

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel and his records? Maybe Seb now has the record for the fastest puncture as well? :p : As hard as I'm trying to recall all races I have seen, I just cannot remember anyone ever suffering a puncture like that after a race start, except in contact with another car/barrier.I know! It's Vettel's fault that Pirelli tires are crap. :rolleyes:

Vettel would have been 3x world champion if they immediately carted him over to RBR from STR in 2008. DC was just a waste of a seat and Webber's criticism in 2007, "It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they **** it all up" of Vettel has come back to bite him in the butt.

[Knock-on]

I know! It's Vettel's fault that Pirelli tires are crap. :rolleyes:


Thank GOD the mystery has been solved by GloomyDAY.

Please, please, please let us know why the tyre was at fault when it had previously been fine during qualification as nobody else has a scooby. I don't think even ioan has criticised Pirelli for this failure yet. :rolleyes:

[jens]

Thank GOD the mystery has been solved by GloomyDAY.

Please, please, please let us know why the tyre was at fault when it had previously been fine during qualification as nobody else has a scooby. I don't think even ioan has criticised Pirelli for this failure yet. :rolleyes:

So what else was possibly at fault, if not the tyre? If a racing driver uses a completely usual and ordinary line and suddenly 'kaboom'. I think in the past drivers have been more at fault in their hydraulics, gearbox and engine failures than Vettel in that tyre failure.

The tyre might have been fine in qualifying, but this doesn't really matter. Equipment can give up suddenly without any previous warning. Engines are often at their highest power before blowing up. Mansell was driving very competitive laptimes at Adelaide '86 before puncture.

[Knock-on]

So what else was possibly at fault, if not the tyre? If a racing driver uses a completely usual and ordinary line and suddenly 'kaboom'. I think in the past drivers have been more at fault in their hydraulics, gearbox and engine failures than Vettel in that tyre failure.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/149179-abu-dhabi-grand-prix-2011-a-2.html#post984597


It was a very strange failure. Abu Dhabi is a pretty well run event so I think it would be unlikely it was caused by debris although such a catastrophic failure is normally associated with that sort of puncture.

One theory could be that they were running lower than recommended tyre pressures and either Seb didn't get enough heat in during the sighting lap or that he expected a little too much of the tyres before they were up to race temperature. Other causes could be an issue with the seating or a similar issue.

Personally, I would think it less likely that it was a Tyre defect because those tyres had been used in qualifying and checked afterwards. If there was a structural issue, it is likely it would have failed during qualifying when it was under maximum load rather than at the start of the GP.

Lets hope we find out soon.

[555-04Q2]

Even if Vettel is in the best car by miles, one fact remains to support just how good he has been this year...Webber has not won a single race this year to his double digit haul. That is a telling statistic that reminds me why The Shoe was so good in his heyday. He did the same thing to his teamates.

Vettel is GOOD people, very good!

[Ranger]

I know! It's Vettel's fault that Pirelli tires are crap. :rolleyes:

Pirelli rules out structural damage as reason for Sebastian Vettel's puncture - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96257)

Following a detailed examination of the tyre after the crash, which suffered an instantaneous deflation and put Vettel out of the race after he spun and damaged his rear suspension, Pirelli is adamant that the issue was not caused by factors under its control.

Red Bull inflate their tyres outside of Pirelli's recommended limits (as do many other teams apparently). Add the exhaust gases near the wheels and that could be one potential explanation - but who knows.

Pirelli make a convenient scapegoat regardless.


Vettel would have been 3x world champion if they immediately carted him over to RBR from STR in 2008.

The 2008 STR was better than the Red Bull car from mid-season onwards.

The fact that Bourdais often qualified near Vettel, ahead of both RBR cars either means that either:

a) Bourdais was also a brilliant F1 driver, better than both Webber and Coulthard
b) The STR car was better than the RBR car.

Vettel's victory in Monza was brilliant but it doesn't give evidence to support pointless speculation.


DC was just a waste of a seat and Webber's criticism in 2007, "It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they **** it all up" of Vettel has come back to bite him in the butt.

Driver suffers food poisoning, vomits in helmet, puts himself in contention to win his first race and then gets punted off under safety car.

Don't you think a heated remark at that point in time should just be left as that?

[Knock-on]

So, it is looking more likely that RBR may have compromised their driver yet again by running outside recommended safe operating parameters.

[CaptainRaiden]

Even if Vettel is in the best car by miles, one fact remains to support just how good he has been this year...Webber has not won a single race this year to his double digit haul. That is a telling statistic that reminds me why The Shoe was so good in his heyday. He did the same thing to his teamates.

Vettel is GOOD people, very good!

I have to agree with that. I am no Vettel fan, but I do appreciate his talents. I'm not the one to believe in conspiracy theories, especially in Formula 1, and I do believe Webber has been thoroughly outclassed by Vettel this year. At the end of the day, the harsh truth that Webber fans have to face is that that car in Webber's hands probably wouldn't have won the championship. The fact remains that Vettel has gotten used to the Pirellis much, much better than Webber has. I believe Webber is still struggling.

Also, Vettel is an amazing qualifier. His qualifying laps are some of the best that I have seen with full commitment and 100% aggression in every corner. His race craft has also improved ten folds compared to last year. He fully deserves this championship.

[Dave B]

Horner mentioned that after Vettel's tyre failure in Abu Dhabi he joined them on the pitwall. Not for a casual chat, but to thoroughly immerse himself in how the team make strategy decisions and monitor the data flowing to them. He'll have gleaned a valuable insight into the workings of the team which might, one day in the future, be the difference between winning or losing a race.

A lesser driver might have gone for an icecream...

[Garry Walker]

So did Bourdais finish 2nd and we all missed it?! LOL
LOL!!! You forgot him stalling the car at the start? Did that somehow make Blonde Turd's car slower?


So nowadays 4th is impressive, but being 1st in the very same car doesn't mean that the driver did rise above the level of the machinery? Just asking.
No driver can rise above the level of his machinery, that is just impossible.
If an absolute nobody in rain like bourdais can qualify that car in 4th place, then it had to be a hell of a quick car.


I think McLaren was the fastest car on that day, not STR. Hamilton had a botched qualifying, but despite that he would have finished the race at least in P2 if he didn't have to make an extra pitstop due to changing weather and hence unfortunate strategy. Kovalainen drove a steady race and finished second, but his impression on podium said it all. I have rarely seen as miserable second place finisher as he was that day. I think he knew the race was his to win, but was unable to grab the opportunity.
Hamilton was never finishing that race in 2nd place.
So now we are judging the speed of a car by how the driver looks after the race?


I find it funny that RBR is dominant -- but vettel is the only one who does the dominating, that STR "that year was a monster", but only with vettel driving it -- he had like 3 races he was in a good position to win. And now what happened to the STR "monster" how come not a single race since vettel has the team looked like they had even a prayer of winning?? RBR didn't even win one until vettel joined them. You vettel hating bigots are simply ridiculous, full stop. Vettel is the real deal and you will spend the next 10 years of your life fully constipated about becuase you can't just accept it and move on.
LOL!!!! Another Blonde Turd fanboy suffering from from both kinds of diarrhoea.


So much rubbish. You're getting desperate now that Vettel blew Hamy into the weeds and destroyed any trace of self confidence that Lewis 'sliced bread' Hamilton ever had.
Heck, even Button is looking down on him right now.
Let's wait when Blonde Turd does not have a car that is 1 second per lap faster than that of Hamilton's and we'll see how cocky blonde turd and his fanboys then will be.


Where did he say that the Red Bull was not the best car? Are you claiming that because he thinks Seb, Lewis and Alonso are capable of winning in a car other than the best car, then he feels that the Mercedes is the best car on the grid?

You are arguing with Blonde Turd fanboys, they have no sense of reality and are driven by extreme fanboy feelings, you cannot reason with them.




Vettel would have been 3x world champion if they immediately carted him over to RBR from STR in 2008. DC was just a waste of a seat and Webber's criticism in 2007, "It's kids isn't it... kids with not enough experience – they do a good job and then they **** it all up" of Vettel has come back to bite him in the butt.It was only the fault of Blonde Turd that he ruined what was clearly the best car in 2009 and didnt take the title with it.


Horner mentioned that after Vettel's tyre failure in Abu Dhabi he joined them on the pitwall. Not for a casual chat, but to thoroughly immerse himself in how the team make strategy decisions and monitor the data flowing to them. He'll have gleaned a valuable insight into the workings of the team which might, one day in the future, be the difference between winning or losing a race.

A lesser driver might have gone for an icecream...
Truly stupid stupid example.

[jens]

If an absolute nobody in rain like bourdais can qualify that car in 4th place, then it had to be a hell of a quick car.

Hamilton was never finishing that race in 2nd place.
So now we are judging the speed of a car by how the driver looks after the race?

Let's wait when Blonde Turd does not have a car that is 1 second per lap faster than that of Hamilton's and we'll see how cocky blonde turd and his fanboys then will be.


Amusing, how Garry Walker pops out every now and then to tell us, how much Vettel sucks without a balanced view.
And may I ask, how objective is your judgement of car's speeds? Perhaps Bourdais was having a good weekend and that's why he qualified 4th, not that he was always and in every single race weekend slow. Your hate for Vettel is well-known, so your talk about all his success being based on only an extremely fast car can only be taken with a pinch of salt. Funny that you accuse people of being fanboys, while it looks like your views are far more extreme than the ones of fanboys.

[BDunnell]

Amusing, how Garry Walker pops out every now and then to tell us, how much Vettel sucks without a balanced view.
And may I ask, how objective is your judgement of car's speeds? Perhaps Bourdais was having a good weekend and that's why he qualified 4th, not that he was always and in every single race weekend slow. Your hate for Vettel is well-known, so your talk about all his success being based on only an extremely fast car can only be taken with a pinch of salt. Funny that you accuse people of being fanboys, while it looks like your views are far more extreme than the ones of fanboys.

Well, quite. I am not one to have 'favourite' drivers, yet I would have thought that even the most balanced observer would view Vettel as an incredible talent, one of the best we've seen for many a year.

To address one of the more specific points, let's face it, chances to see a true great of the future starting their career in a really slow car, like Alonso in the Minardi, are going to be very few and far between nowadays.

[555-04Q2]

Truly stupid stupid example.

No Garry, it's a very very good example.

[555-04Q2]

Well, quite. I am not one to have 'favourite' drivers, yet I would have thought that even the most balanced observer would view Vettel as an incredible talent, one of the best we've seen for many a year.

To address one of the more specific points, let's face it, chances to see a true great of the future starting their career in a really slow car, like Alonso in the Minardi, are going to be very few and far between nowadays.

:up:

[Valve Bounce]

I think Vettel's performance this year has shown that he is the best driver around today. The thing is, I think that he will continue to get faster and faster around a track, and I just hope that he will always have a great sense of respect towards the other drivers on the track.