Haminton in Japan

[Koz]

He will take out Button and or Kobayashi. :D

[steveaki13]

Or Vettel in an unselfish act to keep Jenson in the championship.

[donKey jote]

go Bumilton, make the race interesting !

[Dave B]

Tiresome now.

[Dave B]

And as I say that he hits his old mate Massa again! D'oh...

[truefan72]

or massa hit him, since Hamilton was ahead right?

[Knock-on]

Hamilton ahead, leaves racing room, doesn't even put Massa over the white line, turns away from Massa, not really an overtaking opportunity for Massa and Massa makes contact.

Must be Hamiltons fault ;)

[ioan]

or massa hit him, since Hamilton was ahead right?

Not really but hey everything is fine with the rosy Hamy glasses I guess.

[Robinho]

as i've been reminded of many times, the responsibility for the safe pass is with the driver making the pass.

that said it was probably partly Lewis fault for squeezing the gap that Felipe was trying to drive into, although Massa was never going to make a pass round the outside into the chicane. a nothing incident that will be amplified because it was between Hamilton and Massa again.

[Robinho]

Hamilton says he had no idea that Massa was there

[F1boat]

Both were stupid in that situation and both were awful slow today.

[Knock-on]

Not really but hey everything is fine with the rosy Hamy glasses I guess.

Can you point out what Hamilton actually did wrong and please bear in mind the Vettel / Button incident at the start?

No? Thought not ;)

[Hawkmoon]

or massa hit him, since Hamilton was ahead right?


Hamilton ahead, leaves racing room, doesn't even put Massa on the white line, turns away from Massa, not really an overtaking opportunity for Massa and Massa makes contact.

Must be Hamiltons fault ;)

Damn straight it was Hamilton's fault. Massa had nowhere to go. If Hamilton had squeezed Massa anymore the Ferrari would have been on the grass as the Ferrari's left front was on the white line. Hamilton only turned away from Massa after the contact.

The stewards got it right, no penalty was deserved, but once again Hamilton makes contact with another car.

[i_max2k2]

Damn straight it was Hamilton's fault. Massa had nowhere to go. If Hamilton had squeezed Massa anymore the Ferrari would have been on the grass as the Ferrari's left front was on the white line. Hamilton only turned away from Massa after the contact.

The stewards got it right, no penalty was deserved, but once again Hamilton makes contact with another car.

Yep Massa had no where to go, hamiltons fault here, same thing as he did in Spa, only this time it was massa's wing which took damage -

here is the crappy tv pic

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8467/photouvj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/photouvj.jpg/)

[DexDexter]

Both were stupid in that situation and both were awful slow today.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Massa was ahead of Alonso in the beginning and was broken again with obvious team orders and still stayed with the leaders for much of the race. Hamilton wasn't slow either, his tires just went off time and time again. Not as good as Button but hardly slow.

[Robinho]

Damn straight it was Hamilton's fault. Massa had nowhere to go. If Hamilton had squeezed Massa anymore the Ferrari would have been on the grass as the Ferrari's left front was on the white line. Hamilton only turned away from Massa after the contact.

The stewards got it right, no penalty was deserved, but once again Hamilton makes contact with another car.

so should Button have stayed on his line and let Vettel hit him at the start or move on to the grass and back out. Should Massa have stayed where he was or backed out or put a wheel on the grass. Was Hamilton moving across any different or worse than Vettel at the start. The only difference i see is that Massa was about 1/4 or a car further alongside than Button was. Both incidents were investigated, both had no further action. only one is getting people worked up

[i_max2k2]

so should Button have stayed on his line and let Vettel hit him at the start or move on to the grass and back out. Should Massa have stayed where he was or backed out or put a wheel on the grass. Was Hamilton moving across any different or worse than Vettel at the start. The only difference i see is that Massa was about 1/4 or a car further alongside than Button was. Both incidents were investigated, both had no further action. only one is getting people worked up

Well the they were 2 completely different incidents, the serial hitter did hit someone and he had the rest of the track to goto as he was already on the inside line. Secondly there were braking after the longest throttle zone on the circuit, so why would any one driver lift off before, and they would both try to out brake the other to keep the advantage, at the start there was nothing of this sort.

[markabilly]

the serial hitter did hit someone and he had the rest of the track to go to as he was already on the inside line. .

"serial hitter".... :D :p

[jens]

Both were stupid in that situation and both were awful slow today.

It was clearly Hamilton's fault. Massa was alongside him, but was almost pushed out, costing him bits of wing. Lucky that this time Hamilton actually managed to react in the very last moment and avoid a bigger disaster. Just look at how other drivers were racing, when they were entering the chicane. The car in front always left room, when there was someone on the outside.

I'm amazed that Hamilton, who in previous years has acquired a reputation of an excellent racer, has suddenly forgotten the basics. This situation was exactly the same as with Kobayashi at Spa. Hamilton keeps racing like there are no other cars around him. Although if I'm recalling correctly, he has done similar such things in the past years too. Like pushing Glock on the wet grass at Monza '08.

[Dave B]

A racing incident, lets not let this overshadow yet another excellent race and one that has seen a driver crowned WDC.

Exactly. Just like the contact in Singapore, it's a run of the mill incident which happens all the time in the midfield without anybody passing comment, but which will probably be blown out of all proportion because of the two drivers involved.

So long as Massa doesn't "assault" Hamilton we should be fine :p

[Hawkmoon]

so should Button have stayed on his line and let Vettel hit him at the start or move on to the grass and back out. Should Massa have stayed where he was or backed out or put a wheel on the grass. Was Hamilton moving across any different or worse than Vettel at the start. The only difference i see is that Massa was about 1/4 or a car further alongside than Button was. Both incidents were investigated, both had no further action. only one is getting people worked up

My reply was to two posts that were suggesting that Hamilton did nothing wrong and it was just another case of "Hamilton bashing". I totally disagree. As to the Vettel/Button incident at the start, I put that one on Vettel who was very lucky Button moved out of his way. I also stated that I didn't think a penalty was warranted so I'm not getting worked up over the incident itself, but rather the way some folk were trying to deflect Hamilton's mistake onto Massa.

I disagree that Massa should have backed off and let Hamilton take whatever line he wanted. Sure it would have avoided a collision but it would also have told Hamilton that all he has to do to stop Massa from passing is to squeeze him onto the grass. Would Hamilton have backed off if the situation were reversed? I doubt it. He's aggressive and his fans love him for it.

[markabilly]

A racing incident, lets not let this overshadow yet another excellent race and one that has seen a driver crowned WDC. It was a minor incident that both drivers played a part in and no action was taken. Move on.

I agree, time to move on. There are 4 more races, and plenty of more opportunities for the serial hitter to strike again.





This race, poor hamilton only had one bump with massa and near bumps with Webber and MS in qfying. I remeber MS used to do something like this once or twice a season in his worst seasons, and everyone went nuts......Hamilton does this--or worse--once or twice a race weekend---

[henners88]

Nice attempt.

[jens]

I also agree with Hawkmoon that the start incident was Vettel's fault. Drivers should leave room to competitors on race-track. But it looks like they have got so used to tarmac run-off areas (which has seen the growth of the attitude that pushing a driver off is fine, it doesn't do any harm to him) that they have at times started forgetting that not always is there anywhere else to go for a rival.

[Robinho]

My reply was to two posts that were suggesting that Hamilton did nothing wrong and it was just another case of "Hamilton bashing". I totally disagree. As to the Vettel/Button incident at the start, I put that one on Vettel who was very lucky Button moved out of his way. I also stated that I didn't think a penalty was warranted so I'm not getting worked up over the incident itself, but rather the way some folk were trying to deflect Hamilton's mistake onto Massa.

I disagree that Massa should have backed off and let Hamilton take whatever line he wanted. Sure it would have avoided a collision but it would also have told Hamilton that all he has to do to stop Massa from passing is to squeeze him onto the grass. Would Hamilton have backed off if the situation were reversed? I doubt it. He's aggressive and his fans love him for it.

ok, thats fair enough, in both incidences i'd say they were Vettel and Hamiltons "fault" but neither probably deserved anything, although this year much less has been punished

[driveace]

I love all the ex F1 racers that comment on here blameing one or another F1 driver,when the fastest most of you guys have ever driven is about half the speed,that is driven in a F1 race.Would your observation,and reactions be any better at those speeds,and when you point out that they are proffesional racers and they should be quicker seeing and reacting,foresight is a wonderful thing !

[ioan]

Yet another rubbish race where Hamy drives into another driver. But then again this is nothing new, in fact it's the norm nowadays, and I can't say that I dislike his downfall.

[donKey jote]

reminds you a bit of Schumi's eh ? :p

[CaptainRaiden]

I agree, time to move on. There are 4 more races, and plenty of more opportunities for the serial hitter to strike again.

This race, poor hamilton only had one bump with massa and near bumps with Webber and MS in qfying. I remeber MS used to do something like this once or twice a season in his worst seasons, and everyone went nuts......Hamilton does this--or worse--once or twice a race weekend---


Yet another rubbish race where Hamy drives into another driver. But then again this is nothing new, in fact it's the norm nowadays, and I can't say that I dislike his downfall.

Troll Troll go away,
DON'T come again another day.
Proper fans want to play;

http://cdn.chefkoch.de/ck.de/forumuploads/72/363026/5965302/TrollSpray.jpg

[Knock-on]

Having read the brief explanation from the stewards of the incident between Lewis and Felipe, I can't help but think they came to the conclusion Felipe had forced the contact by his use of track position although I could be reading that wrongly. Of course it was a minor racing incident but as Felipe had attempted an impossible overtake on the outside of a tight right handed chicane, I think its obvious the contact was the fault of both drivers. In other words a racing incident.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/jpn-document-48.pdf

That's the way I saw it.

There was no way that Massa could have made the overtake and he was nowhere near fully alongside when the impact happened. I guess Lewis would have no idea that Massa would have been so stupid as to plonk his car there.

I think that Massa is putting his car in positions now that he thinks Lewis will jump out of to avoid any penalty.

[555-04Q2]

Besides fighting about who's fault it was, Hammy boy was once again involved with another on track incident. He's going for some sort of record by the looks of it :)

Cmon Hammy, you are better than this!!!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

One thing I would say about these kind of incidents is that visibility seems to be an issue.

Was it the Coulthard/Wurz accident in Australia that led to the raising of cockpit sides? Since then there have been a number of examples of different drivers talking about the reduced/restricted visibility.

Lewis seems to be affected more than most recently, and during BBC commentary (IIRC) DC talked about the fact that he sits lower in the car, so his visibility is likely to be even worse.

[555-04Q2]

Well its the same for all the drivers and the rest seem to be fine. I think he has lost his mojo or something cause he aint the same driver this season compared to his first 4 seasons :(

[ArrowsFA1]

Well its the same for all the drivers and the rest seem to be fine.
Apart from 1) Lewis apparently sits lower in the car than other drivers and 2) Vettel was another driver who mentioned this issue saying he didnt see Button in the run down to turn one on Sunday.

[Mifune]

Troll Troll go away,
DON'T come again another day.
Proper fans want to play;

http://cdn.chefkoch.de/ck.de/forumuploads/72/363026/5965302/TrollSpray.jpg

With nearly thirty thousand posts of almost pure garbage between them I think its highly unlikely that the quality of discourse is suddenly going to improve anytime soon.

[Bagwan]

One thing I would say about these kind of incidents is that visibility seems to be an issue.

Was it the Coulthard/Wurz accident in Australia that led to the raising of cockpit sides? Since then there have been a number of examples of different drivers talking about the reduced/restricted visibility.

Lewis seems to be affected more than most recently, and during BBC commentary (IIRC) DC talked about the fact that he sits lower in the car, so his visibility is likely to be even worse.

The guy behind is always going to have a better view .
But , the cars , as they are configured now , have big blocky bolsters , making it close to impossible for any of the drivers to see properly .
A big , fat blind-spot exists between the tiny mirrors view and when the tires make thier appearance in front of the sidepods .

If Lewis is , in fact sitting lower , then he's at a distinct disadvantage .
He didn't see Kobayashi a few races ago .
He didn't see Massa this time .

As such , Lewis might be excused , to a certain degree .
But , on the other hand , being that he's had this issue a few times this year , he might have learned , himself , that he might surprise a few guys like Pastor , for example , who didn't see him coming .

I guess the bolsters add an element of surprise to the championship , in a way , but I don't see it as a partcularly good surprise most of the time .

I say , drop the bolsters , and add a bar , above the sight line for the driver .
A little peripheral vision would go a long way towards stopping all the "I didn't see hims" .

[Robinho]

he might sit a bit lower in the car, but if its an issue, why does he not move up a little. He does seem to be having some difficulties with visibility, like you said, even in Singapore it was arguabley because he could judge where his front wing and Massa rear wheel were exactly. Look at Button, he sits up a little higher (he is taller after all) and he is leading the charts for overtakes this year, yet has not been making lots of contact. Stick a cushion under the little fella and all will be cured

[ArrowsFA1]

Stick a cushion under the little fella and all will be cured
:laugh:

I do think the issue of visibility needs to be looked at. If drivers, and Lewis is not alone in this, cannot see who is around them when they're racing then something's wrong.

[Robinho]

:laugh:

I do think the issue of visibility needs to be looked at. If drivers, and Lewis is not alone in this, cannot see who is around them when they're racing then something's wrong.

I remeber going back a few years when Antonio Pizzonia came into F1, he had some great junior catergory results and I saw him a few times destroy a field in Formula Renault and F3. When he got to F1 I expected great things, which never came. It was noted then (by Brundle I think) that he sat very low in the car and must struggle for visibility and that he thought that would affect him. I still agree with that, and for the life of me I cannot understand why drivers do not test more with alternative driving positions as it seems they simply stick with the same, regardless.

That said, if i was driving an F1 car with 20+ other maniacs, I'd want to keep my head as low as possible!

[Bagwan]

They sit as low as they can , so the CoG is as low as possible .
There is obviously a point at which low is too low .

At least there are seemingly a lot of folks talking about this issue now .

Even Mansell has waded in , saying that he knew where all the cars around him were .

Lewis has stated that he couldn't even see him down the straight and had no idea at all that Felipe was there at all , due to his mirrors vibrating so much .
While I find this a fetched a bit far , that he didn't know at all , it begs the question of whether the Macs , and presumably the rest , should even bother with the rear view mirrors at all , if this is the case .
Or , whether these mirrors should have more structure mandated , because if they are basically useless for rear view , then all they provide is more obstruction for the frontal view , which is something we definitely don't want or need .

Being that the rear view mirrors are a safety item , should it be a citeable offence for teams to put drivers on track , knowing they cannot possibly use them , because of inherent design deficiency ?

[Robinho]

remove the mirrors and have a small monitor in the car maybe above the steering wheel linked to a rear view camera mounted on the rear light assembly. It would only need to be the size of a wing mirror and would probably be more use, especially as it would be wobbly. still leaves a blind spot when a car is alongside, but you'd at least know which side the car has gone, and i'm sure they could do something, maybe a diffferent mount or wing mirri cams with a little screen on each side.

[AndyL]

They sit as low as they can , so the CoG is as low as possible .
There is obviously a point at which low is too low .

At least there are seemingly a lot of folks talking about this issue now .

Even Mansell has waded in , saying that he knew where all the cars around him were .

Lewis has stated that he couldn't even see him down the straight and had no idea at all that Felipe was there at all , due to his mirrors vibrating so much .
While I find this a fetched a bit far , that he didn't know at all , it begs the question of whether the Macs , and presumably the rest , should even bother with the rear view mirrors at all , if this is the case .
Or , whether these mirrors should have more structure mandated , because if they are basically useless for rear view , then all they provide is more obstruction for the frontal view , which is something we definitely don't want or need .

Being that the rear view mirrors are a safety item , should it be a citeable offence for teams to put drivers on track , knowing they cannot possibly use them , because of inherent design deficiency ?

It certainly seems to be high time for a fresh look at the whole issue of visibility. It's an issue which has been largely ignored in the efforts to improve driver safety. The scrutineering of mirror function is still pretty rudimentary, and only conducted at a standstill. The combination of the mirror requirements and the high cockpit sides mean that drivers will generally be unable to see another car that's part-way alongside.

I'd say get rid of mirrors, they clearly don't work adequately any more, and move to a more technological solution. If a Citroen C4 can have side-looking proximity sensors, I don't see why an F1 car couldn't. Link them in to the logging on the standardised ECU and you could get rid of all these "I didn't know he was there" arguments.

[jens]

If Hamilton can't see anything and they can't fix the issue in the car quickly, maybe he needs a spotter in NASCAR-style. :p : I remember a YouTube video years ago, when Sato's race engineer was talking to him after the start, how the cars were positioning around him. :p :

[AndyL]

Back in the early days of grand prix racing, they had a mechanic in the passenger seat who could watch out for other cars coming up behind. Could be interesting to re-introduce that :)

[i_max2k2]

While we are giving suggestions on how to improve the situation, they could probably have a small heads up display in the drivers helmet, which informs of a car behind or sideways, could be achieved by having 3 dots, left, right center, center meaning behind and left and right meaning sideways.

[ioan]

reminds you a bit of Schumi's eh ? :p

Last I checked MS was doing fine, much more competitive against his team mate then Hamilton could dream right now.

[ioan]

They sit as low as they can , so the CoG is as low as possible .
There is obviously a point at which low is too low .

Sitting low wouldn't be a problem if the car's nose wouldn't be too high.
But the FIA is to occupied with over regulating irrelevant aspects of the cars (like where the exhaust are positioned) while not caring about the drivers only being able to see the sky while driving at 300+ kph..

[CNR]

how to fix it
replace side mirrors with lcd display and camera
underlay front view lcd on steering wheel front view camera
http://i54.tinypic.com/jpkk6b.jpg

[SGWilko]

how to fix it
replace side mirrors with lcd display and camera
underlay front view lcd on steering wheel front view camera
http://i54.tinypic.com/jpkk6b.jpg

Great idea - how about a cup holder, heated front windscreen (for when it gets frosty), sat nav and a stereo????

[Knock-on]

Last I checked MS was doing fine, much more competitive against his team mate then Hamilton could dream right now.

:confused:

ioan, I really am worried about your grasp on reality :D

MS is a lot closer to Nico this year than the trouncing he suffered last year where his junior team mate scored twice as many points as him but he's still behind isn't he?

If being beaten by their team mate is fine then both Schumy and Hamilton are doing great and Massa is bloody amazing :laugh:

[berikson]

Great idea - how about a cup holder, heated front windscreen (for when it gets frosty), sat nav and a stereo????

hahaa

[The Black Knight]

:confused:

ioan, I really am worried about your grasp on reality :D

MS is a lot closer to Nico this year than the trouncing he suffered last year where his junior team mate scored twice as many points as him but he's still behind isn't he?

If being beaten by their team mate is fine then both Schumy and Hamilton are doing great and Massa is bloody amazing :laugh:

Schumacher came from the back of the grid to 5th in Spa. Nothing short of impressive. He has had a good string of strong results and is getting better and better. I think next year he will really come alive.

It is said in sport that if you are out injured for 1 year it will take you a year to return to your previous level. If this holds true for a guy that took 3 years off for a break then the signs for Rosberg are ominous indeed.

[555-04Q2]

Apart from 1) Lewis apparently sits lower in the car than other drivers and 2) Vettel was another driver who mentioned this issue saying he didnt see Button in the run down to turn one on Sunday.

He can either put a cushion under his butt or start paying attention ;)

[555-04Q2]

:confused:

ioan, I really am worried about your grasp on reality :D

MS is a lot closer to Nico this year than the trouncing he suffered last year where his junior team mate scored twice as many points as him but he's still behind isn't he?

If being beaten by their team mate is fine then both Schumy and Hamilton are doing great and Massa is bloody amazing :laugh:

If a pensioner like The Shoe was so close to me and I was a young buck like Nico, I would be embarrassed :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Whitmarsh says that big progress has been made in improving mirrors over the years, but he suggests that perhaps F1 teams should look at doing more.
"By comparison to the old school of 20 years ago, they are big," said Whitmarsh. "But in terms of vibration, probably we don't do enough.
"If you talk to any driver going along the straight, they are not great. Normally you will see them for picking out colour: 'there is a piece of colour behind me that means there is another car'. Maybe it is something we have to look at.
Whitmarsh believes a rethink is needed about mirror rules in Formula 1 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95267)

[AndyL]

In case anyone's interested, here's an amateurish diagram of what the technical regs say the mirrors have to show:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/L_Andy/f1mirrors2011.gif

Basically they need to be able to see an 8m wide eye test chart 10m behind the rear axle.

[nigelred5]

This sort of touches on the discussions we had in the "coupes" thread. F1 has so many options now for cockpit materials that they may be able to rework the cockpit regs to improve visibility while still providing a very safe open cockpit. The NHRA Top fuel guys now run a ballistic polycarbonate windscreen much like the off shore powerboats. i noticed them this weekend when I cought a few runs on TV and they are exactly whi i believe F1 should advocate. The cockpit sides can be lower, especially forward of the driver. The windscreen easily pops forward to allow easy exit from an overturned car, and the windscreen is high enough that it totally protects the drivers head while remaining open from above. Not a coupe, still open top, with at least 180 degree visibility, if not more. Mandate mirror placement so that they are stiff and do not vibrate. a video system would most likely be too far out of the drivers field of vision. This isn't the best image, and The ones I saw this weekend were slightly different but it gets the idea across. They do't need their head toatlly enclosed in the cage like the NHRA, but lower cockpit sides and a good windscreen would be my choice.

http://competitionplus.com/images/stories/2011/february2011/pbir_testing/thursday/cockpit3.jpg

[Bagwan]

In case anyone's interested, here's an amateurish diagram of what the technical regs say the mirrors have to show:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/L_Andy/f1mirrors2011.gif

Basically they need to be able to see an 8m wide eye test chart 10m behind the rear axle.

So , this shows you what's behind , when you're at rest . Moving the car results in vibration that makes it basically worthless , if we are to believe Lewis .
And , that's with them much bigger than they were a few years ago .

It shows that , even with the requirements about the range of vision , that the driver is unsighted as soon as the car behind has gone outside the rear track of the leading car .
With the sidepod bolsters , he is then blind until the car behind is alongside , with the top of the wheel showing ahead of the sidepod .

This sets up a nasty scenario where a driver opens the rear wing and approaches at much greater speed , the top speed an F1 car can achieve , and the driver being passed doesn't happen to look in the fuzzy mirror at the right moment to see which side the following driver is taking to make the sitting duck pass .
It'll be ugly , and the drivers won't have seen it coming , but we do .

They need to fix this .

[Bagwan]

This sort of touches on the discussions we had in the "coupes" thread. F1 has so many options now for cockpit materials that they may be able to rework the cockpit regs to improve visibility while still providing a very safe open cockpit. The NHRA Top fuel guys now run a ballistic polycarbonate windscreen much like the off shore powerboats. i noticed them this weekend when I cought a few runs on TV and they are exactly whi i believe F1 should advocate. The cockpit sides can be lower, especially forward of the driver. The windscreen easily pops forward to allow easy exit from an overturned car, and the windscreen is high enough that it totally protects the drivers head while remaining open from above. Not a coupe, still open top, with at least 180 degree visibility, if not more. Mandate mirror placement so that they are stiff and do not vibrate. a video system would most likely be too far out of the drivers field of vision. This isn't the best image, and The ones I saw this weekend were slightly different but it gets the idea across. They do't need their head toatlly enclosed in the cage like the NHRA, but lower cockpit sides and a good windscreen would be my choice.

http://competitionplus.com/images/stories/2011/february2011/pbir_testing/thursday/cockpit3.jpg

I do think some kind of cage , almost totally enclosing the head is better , without the cover .

I don't like the idea of the windscreen .

[nigelred5]

They are already adequately protected from the roll over which isn't limiting their visibility, it is the side and frontal impact protection that is limiting their vision. The nose and sidepods are too high. I certainly don't want an F1 car to end up looking like a current Dallara Indycar :eek: , but having the drivers stare across the deck at eye level is causing more and more problems. I 'd also like to see more than the crown of some of the drivers helmet in the cars. Schumacher's car isn't the best example of what many of hte guys are running, but I can't find a good picture.

[Robinho]

that diagram does show the massive blind spot that even if the mirrors weren't vibrating would still provide a visibility issue until the front wheels were level. I think some sort of screen is the way to go, they have it in the Le Mans cars (in somecases) so the technology exists

[Bagwan]

They are already adequately protected from the roll over which isn't limiting their visibility, it is the side and frontal impact protection that is limiting their vision. The nose and sidepods are too high. I certainly don't want an F1 car to end up looking like a current Dallara Indycar :eek: , but having the drivers stare across the deck at eye level is causing more and more problems. I 'd also like to see more than the crown of some of the drivers helmet in the cars. Schumacher's car isn't the best example of what many of hte guys are running, but I can't find a good picture.

I'm not so sure of them being protected in a roll-over .

Whilst they do have a roll hoop , to be protected in the gravel is more difficult , being that they hoop is small and can easily bury itself .

If there was another bar projecting forward , above the vision line , that did the same job as the bolsters , it would seemingly reduce greatly the blind spot area , and further protect from frontal debris .
Join that bar from both sides at the front , and make it again , above the regular line of sight , and you end up with a sort of open canopy hybrid .

[wedge]

In case anyone's interested, here's an amateurish diagram of what the technical regs say the mirrors have to show:

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee23/L_Andy/f1mirrors2011.gif

Basically they need to be able to see an 8m wide eye test chart 10m behind the rear axle.

Mirrors are one thing and what are the limitations of peripheral vision?

[Big Ben]

It's just BS to shift people's attention from Hammy. Both of them are pretty reckless so no wonder they touch each other so much. It happens so frequently because LH is doing a fantastic job lately and gets to hang a lot more with his Brazilian buddy. Does anyone remember the nice chat FA had with FM after the German GP in 2007? So you have on overly aggressive driver fighting a frustrated and bitter one who would rather cause an accident than being overtaken... it's a deadly combination.