80 MPH proposed maximum speed limit in 2 years time

[driveace]

The government,are considering raising the speed limit on Motorways to 80MPH from 2013,as the present limit was set over 40 years ago when cars were not as mechanically advanced as todays modern cars.
We still have the "Greens" saying why are we polluting so much,why not leave the limit as it is.
My new Mercedes C220 Sport,should do 68 MPG at a constant 80MPH according to the salesman,when I asked why at 80MPH,he said "That,s what the speed limit ,is mostly on German roads"
Your views?

[Sonic]

WOOT!

As someone who sticks religiously to the limits it will make a big difference to my journey times, but perhaps a similar system to over the channel with lower speed limits enforced in poor weather.

In the greater scheme of things, 70mph is painfully slow, so it's well due for a fresh look.

[Knock-on]

Good to see a bit of common sense at last.

[Rollo]

That would bring the UK into line with Italy's Autostrada and France's Autoroutes, both of which are posted at 130km/h

Aside:
I spent Wednesday driving from Brisbane to Sydney on 110km/h motorways (68mph) and I figure that just increasing the motorway speed by 10km/h would have saved an hour in travelling times.

Even though the UK is entirely smaller than Australia (which is vast an unwieldy), putting the speed limits higher would mean that people get to their destination faster, which means that they will tend to suffer less from fatigue.
Motorways are surprisingly safe places when it comes to road safety. Most road accidents happen in populated areas where there's more stuff to hit; motorway traffic is all heading in the same direction.

[Bolton Midnight]

Won't really make much difference to me as I tend to do 90+ usually on motorways (when I can which isn't often), but if folk still insist on doing 50 when they join or leave it may cause more accidents, be nice if there was a minimum speed and that was enforced more.

Will 80 on M Ways come at the expense of 60 as national speed limit though? 50mph on B and C roads would kill off road rallying.

[Mark]

A bit of posturing ahead of the party conference. It'll never happen.

[Bolton Midnight]

I think it will, it makes sense, aligns us with most of Europe, will be popular with the majority. The Tories want to get rid of a lot of the Labouresque silly rules/regs.

[Rollo]

The Tories want to get rid of a lot of the Labouresque silly rules/regs.

Speed limits on the motorways were introduced in 1965. The legislation to do this which amended the Special Roads Act 1949, was passed in 1964 whilst Alec Douglas-Home was the PM... he was a Tory.
Speed limits on the motorways are a Toryesque silly rule/reg?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Lets just hope we don't get a new AC Cobra. ;)

[Bolton Midnight]

well misunderstood

hence why I said Labouresque, I'm well aware of when the 70mph came into being

They want to simplify things, remove the Nanny State, bit more self reliance

[Bolton Midnight]

Lets just hope we don't get a new AC Cobra. ;)

or Aston Martin / D Type

[Sonic]

Won't really make much difference to me as I tend to do 90+ usually on motorways (when I can which isn't often), but if folk still insist on doing 50 when they join or leave it may cause more accidents, be nice if there was a minimum speed and that was enforced more.

Will 80 on M Ways come at the expense of 60 as national speed limit though? 50mph on B and C roads would kill off road rallying.

I doubt a lower C road limit will bother you Midnight especially given your obvious disregard for the current 70mph motorway limit.

[Bolton Midnight]

I doubt a lower C road limit will bother you Midnight especially given your obvious disregard for the current 70mph motorway limit.

It won't bother me, it's what it'll do to road rallying, could have sworn I said that.

[Mark]

Theres no such thing as C roads outside of local authority designations. Those signed are done so illegally.

[Bolton Midnight]

C roads - yellows on the map, they are called C roads.

[christophulus]

A reasonable idea, but only if it is more strictly enforced than it currently is - 90mph would be too fast for the majority of motorways.

Besides, they need to improve the flow of motorways before increasing the speed. I'd much rather they introduced a minimum speed limit to get all the stupidly slow cars off the road - if you're being overtaken by a lorry, you're going far too slowly -and heavily penalise inconsiderate driving, e.g. cutting in at the last second causing everyone else to brake hard.

[donKey jote]

, e.g. cutting in at the last second causing everyone else to brake hard.
or driving too close to the guy in front to prevent lanes merging neatly ;)

[Bolton Midnight]

A reasonable idea, but only if it is more strictly enforced than it currently is - 90mph would be too fast for the majority drivers.

EFA

the roads/cars are fine at 150+ its the people that are the issue

[Mark]

C roads - yellows on the map, they are called C roads.

Not officially. They are 'unclassified roads'. The LA may determine them to be C roads, L roads, D roads, whatever they like, none of it is official.

[Rollo]

It won't bother me, it's what it'll do to road rallying, could have sworn I said that.

Do they not close roads which are being used for rally stages in your part of the world? I can imagine Sébastien Loeb getting a scare by two old gits in a Morris Minor* coming the other way on a C-road.

*Why is it always black?

[Bolton Midnight]

Do they not close roads which are being used for rally stages in your part of the world? I can imagine Sébastien Loeb getting a scare by two old gits in a Morris Minor* coming the other way on a C-road.


Jim Clark, Mull, Ulster use closed road, road rallies are run at 30mph average on a Saturday night on open roads.

Hence if the C roads became 50mph max it would knacker them up big style.

[driveace]

I agree with you Midnight,I always considered them as C roads.
The biggest problem with OUR motorways is not the speed limits,BUT the morons who will not follow the "Rule of the road " and DRIVE ON THE LEFT.!! Its the same every time I use the motorways ,as yesterday coming down from Perth M9,M6 etc,clear road ,slightly higher than speed limit on speedo,but sat-nav says not,and 4 or 5 times I have to come out of the left hand lane,and go over 2 lanes ,then back across again to pass an idoit who is passing NOTHING,and thats simply because they believe its the "Fast Lane".
In Germany there are signs quite frequently reminding driver to keep over in the right lane "When NOT overtaking"

[donKey jote]

The biggest problem with OUR motorways is not the speed limits,BUT the morons who will not follow the "Rule of the road " and DRIVE ON THE LEFT.!! Its the same every time I use the motorways ,as yesterday coming down from Perth M9,M6 etc,clear road ,slightly higher than speed limit on speedo,but sat-nav says not,and 4 or 5 times I have to come out of the left hand lane,and go over 2 lanes ,then back across again to pass an idoit who is passing NOTHING,and thats simply because they believe its the "Fast Lane".
In Germany there are signs quite frequently reminding driver to keep over in the right lane "When NOT overtaking"

That was one of my pet peeves in the UK, and it still is... here in Germany :dozey:

[Bolton Midnight]

Doesn't bother me that much as I undertake them, funny to see some of them tuck back in after I've undertaken them.

[Mark]

Same here yet so many times even then they don't get the message and continue in lane 2 oblivious!

[J4MIE]

I don't think the 80 limit will happen. I heard that in an interview on radio the other day it was said that you'd only get prosecuted for doing 80 + 10% +6mph, so you'd be able to go along doing an indicated 100mph perfectly legally.

[Bolton Midnight]

Same here yet so many times even then they don't get the message and continue in lane 2 oblivious!

I'd like undertaking to be legal, it is abroad without deaths galore.

[Bolton Midnight]

I don't think the 80 limit will happen. I heard that in an interview on radio the other day it was said that you'd only get prosecuted for doing 80 + 10% +6mph, so you'd be able to go along doing an indicated 100mph perfectly legally.

Wonder if 155 on the limiter would ever be legal ha ha

[SGWilko]

The general driving standard on the motorways in Britain is very poor. I would like to see ANY offence committed on ANY roads punished with an on the spot fine and points on the licence. The second offence should result in the driving licence reverting to provisional and the requirement of the offender to re-take his test (an extended intensive test including motorway driving) before the licence becomes full again.

Once driving standards are improved, then I'd like to see motorway speeds increased to 80mph.

[Bob Riebe]

We have the same problem over here except the lanes are reversed. I especially love the ones doing a bit under the speed limit in the passing lane.

On the other hand, I saw in an article recently that the state of Maine is raising the speed limit to 85 MPH on I95 from just north of Portland all the way to Houlton on the Canadian border.
I do not mind so much the slow ones in the fast lane, on a mostly empty road except (although it does mean they are at least intelligent enough to actuall look in the rear-view mirror) when you move over to pass on the right and when you are two hundred feet back suddenly change lanes, but it is the ones in heavier traffic who, even when being passed in the slow lane, repeatedlyl stay in the fast lane.

Recently some one was trundling along in the fast lane.
After about a half-dozen miles ( there were a fair number of cars between she and I) the car in the slow lane she was pretty much pacing with slowed down and cars started passing her on the right side.
They did not pass in one giant block of cars;
Now the others did not go back into the fast lane for some time as the next slow lane cars was about one thousand feet ahead, but when I saw the line of cars behind me in the fast lane I thought this is bs, so after I passed her I cut back in front of her quickly. (No I did not tap my brakes to scare her)

When I looked in the rear view mirror, her turn signal was on to switch over tot the slow lane.

It should not have to take such a belligerent action to get these morons to drive in the lane they belong in.

[SGWilko]

morons.

About sums up these people - I'd probably add beligerant and antagonistic to that....

[Bolton Midnight]

The general driving standard on the motorways in Britain is very poor. I would like to see ANY offence committed on ANY roads punished with an on the spot fine and points on the licence. The second offence should result in the driving licence reverting to provisional and the requirement of the offender to re-take his test (an extended intensive test including motorway driving) before the licence becomes full again.

Once driving standards are improved, then I'd like to see motorway speeds increased to 80mph.

Hell no would be a field day for the rozzers.

I thought in the States you could overtake on both sides.

[Bezza]

It already is 80mph to be honest. I drive at that speed most of the time.

Speed is not the danger on motorways (unless you doing 120mph or whatever) it is the lack of driving skill - i.e. tailgating, changing lanes without indication, driving too slow in wrong lane that causes most motorway crashes.

[BDunnell]

It already is 80mph to be honest. I drive at that speed most of the time.

Not that I'm against 80mph, but what, by the same token, is to stop it just becoming 90, 100, etc, on the grounds that those are the speeds at which most people drive?

[Mark]

Take away speed limits for the moment and how fast would people drive? I think it would be at the speed they are comfortable with. I don't think most people drive at 80 because that's as fast as they can get away with but rather it's the right speed for the road.

In Germany doesn't most traffic still do about 80 on unrestricted sections?

[Bolton Midnight]

120 is fine, I regularly do more than that and it doesn't kill me.

But agree re the drivers being the main issue, speed is fine when appropriate.

I'd go a lot quicker were it not for fear of losing my licence.

[Gregor-y]

Hell no would be a field day for the rozzers.

I thought in the States you could overtake on both sides.
It depends on the state, the time of the month and how the officer is feeling that day. 80 is pretty common on all the expressways around and within the city. Outside of rush hours, of course.

[Bolton Midnight]

It depends on the state, the time of the month and how the officer is feeling that day. 80 is pretty common on all the expressways around and within the city. Outside of rush hours, of course.

eh??

Thought it was 55mph tops

[Mark]

That was repealed something like 15 years ago!

[Bolton Midnight]

That was repealed something like 15 years ago!

Don't do America :-)

[Sonic]

How fast would I go if there were no limits? Depends on conditions. Empty m/way, clear day etc, I'd happily max out (so that's probably 115ish for me).

As for US rules, from my time over the pond there are regular signs saying 'keep right' if the passing on both sides rule is not enforced.

[Gregor-y]

That was repealed something like 15 years ago!
It was fun growing up, though. Since we didn't have a radar detector it really helped hone my observational skills in the car. Scanning the sky, searching the shadows, bridge overpasses and reverse slopes as well as reading the surrounding traffic (particularly trucks which would dominate early radar signatures) all came in handy when I started driving myself (though I did buy a detector as well). Illinois has a maximum speed of 65 for cars and 55 for trucks, but that's mostly to allow random taxation by the police since surrounding states are all 70 or higher for all vehicles and most everyone goes faster than that.

[driveace]

having used the A8 in Germany lots,I think you are about right,most of the traffic does travel at about 130K,until on the 2 lane sections they catch an Artic or a wagon and drag ,SLOWLY passing another truck .This can take ages,BUT now the Germans have tried to sort this problem by banning trucks overtaking other trucks between the hours of say 6am and 6pm,and then removing the ban when it goes to 3 lanes each way.
This works as all the trucks stay in the right lane,and some sections are 22 miles long,but then once the restriction is lifted its manic !!!!

[CarlMetro]

Raising the speed limit to 80 is not going to make much difference to how the majority drive in the UK, all it will do is increase the level at which the police will be able to prosecute and we will then see a reduction in the revenue generated from the fines imposed. Not a particularly good move from a government that is fast approaching bankruptcy.

It will also see the numpties who already drive in excess of the speed limit to think they can take it up another notch and still undertake other vehicles and sit 6ft away from someone else's bumper whilst doing 90.

Personally I'm against the raising of speed limits until every driver in the country receives some form of compulsory retraining. If you had to take a driving ability test every four years or so then the general traffic flow on motorways and dual carriageways would be dramatically improved. I'm not talking about making people learn manoeuvres, more an assessment of a persons general driving. I recently helped a friend of mine do a fleet assessment for a local company. Between us we assessed 9 drivers and the varying standards of ability and attitude was quite surprising.

[SGWilko]

The argument by the 'don't increase the limit' brigade that people will then travel at 90 or 100 is a little short sighted.

I travel on holidays by car from Kent to the Scottish Borders on average twice a year. I take the A1/A1(M) up to the A68. On the A1 i generally stick to 60/65 mph.

I encounter;

middle lane wallahs
oiks that speed up when you attempt to overtake, and slow back down once you pull back in
lorries that take several counties to complete overtakes - usually on the 2 lane section
drivers who fail to indicate
drivers merging from slip roads straight out into the second overtaking lane

The reason for accidents on motorways is not generally due to speed, but the poor driving. The severity of the accident will be determined by the speed.

[Malbec]

The argument by the 'don't increase the limit' brigade that people will then travel at 90 or 100 is a little short sighted.

I travel on holidays by car from Kent to the Scottish Borders on average twice a year. I take the A1/A1(M) up to the A68. On the A1 i generally stick to 60/65 mph.

I encounter;

middle lane wallahs
oiks that speed up when you attempt to overtake, and slow back down once you pull back in
lorries that take several counties to complete overtakes - usually on the 2 lane section
drivers who fail to indicate
drivers merging from slip roads straight out into the second overtaking lane

The reason for accidents on motorways is not generally due to speed, but the poor driving. The severity of the accident will be determined by the speed.

When I drive I stick to very similar speeds to you and I've noticed the same things.

The problem I reckon is that there are two types of driver. People who have some kind of interest in driving and cars and are capable of improving with training, and those that aren't interested at all beyond merely making it from A to B and who wander around the roads in some kind of haze.

Its the second group that causes a lot of the problems and I don't think attempts to raise driving standards will reach this group. Thats why speed limits need to be capped at a sensible level, not because of the majority of decent drivers but the minority of utter idiots who cause the problems.

[Bolton Midnight]

having used the A8 in Germany lots,I think you are about right,most of the traffic does travel at about 130K,until on the 2 lane sections they catch an Artic or a wagon and drag ,SLOWLY passing another truck .This can take ages,BUT now the Germans have tried to sort this problem by banning trucks overtaking other trucks between the hours of say 6am and 6pm,and then removing the ban when it goes to 3 lanes each way.
This works as all the trucks stay in the right lane,and some sections are 22 miles long,but then once the restriction is lifted its manic !!!!

Seems we could learn a lot from Germany, decent traffic laws AND decent smoking laws, good on them - just as long as they pay the PIGS though.



Raising the speed limit to 80 is not going to make much difference to how the majority drive in the UK, all it will do is increase the level at which the police will be able to prosecute and we will then see a reduction in the revenue generated from the fines imposed. Not a particularly good move from a government that is fast approaching bankruptcy.

It will also see the numpties who already drive in excess of the speed limit to think they can take it up another notch and still undertake other vehicles and sit 6ft away from someone else's bumper whilst doing 90.

The whole concept of fines and points is road safety not revenue creation.

Nothing wrong with undertaking, its the clueless types in the wrong lane that need educating/banning.

[BDunnell]

The problem I reckon is that there are two types of driver. People who have some kind of interest in driving and cars and are capable of improving with training, and those that aren't interested at all beyond merely making it from A to B and who wander around the roads in some kind of haze.

Are there not also those, however, who have no interest in driving and cars and who merely want to make it from A to B without being in some kind of haze?

[Bolton Midnight]

Are there not also those, however, who have no interest in driving and cars and who merely want to make it from A to B without being in some kind of haze?

Do you include yourself in that group as you clearly know nowt about cars or motor sport, odd then you choose to troll this particular forum.

[Mark]

The Daily Mash - Britain has a motorway speed limit, claims minister (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4738&Itemid=28)

[Gregor-y]

Looks like they did another article at the time:
The Daily Mash - Clarkson Explodes (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=81&id=4369&option=com_content&task=view)

Neat site; much like The Onion here in the US.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=81&id=4369&option=com_content&task=view

[donKey jote]

hehe yes, funny site :D
The Daily Mash - Woman to explain why she had sex with Clarkson (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=75&id=4476&option=com_content&task=view)

[Eki]

Won't really make much difference to me as I tend to do 90+ usually on motorways (when I can which isn't often), but if folk still insist on doing 50 when they join or leave it may cause more accidents, be nice if there was a minimum speed and that was enforced more.

Trucks with heavy loads can't accelerate to over 50 mph before joining, even if they tried. Or you'd have to rebuild the joining lanes to be longer.

[driveace]

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
As Metro says I do a lot of "Driver Assessments" with company drivers,and some of the attitudes,and tailgating is frightening,BUT hey at least these companies are paying for a driver report,and are trying to sort out the "Bad eggs"
Sometimes i think the guy with the clean car ,is a faster driver,but many a time a safer driver,if the cars filthy,i beware !!

[donKey jote]

Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
Yep, but how drivers there often stay in the middle lane to forward plan for the next slip road even when the slip road is empty when they come to it? :p

[Eki]

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
You can do that for other slow drivers too.

You also have to consider weather. Today, the roads were icy and had lose snow on them. I couldn't accelerate to 100kph speed before joining the motorway even if I wanted to. If I pushed the pedal too hard, the tyres lost grip so I had to lift the pedal and I only had about 80 kph when joining the motorway.

[wedge]

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)

They're on tight schedules and made doubly worse when working with big name retaillers.

Our company gets a bonus for hitting accuracy targets but get fined for late droppages.

[driveace]

One of the biggest problems,on motorways,and not just for trucks,car drivers are equally at fault,and that's Cruise Control,some driver click cruise on and turn off the brain !Another problem with SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

[wedge]

SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

Car drivers are also guilty of this but for sure its damn risky and dangerous there's a good reason for this:

A truck has 18 gears!

Truck Driving challenge part 1: Rig Stig & the power slide - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtTOQSRMRcM#t=6m52)

imhBoE56OEs

Also the other problem in austere times there is an upturn in drivers slipstreaming trucks trying to improve fuel economy. Cars are getting too close and the truckies can't see a damn thing!

Most people don't appreciate trucks. Prostitutes apart, the UK economy would collapse!

[Steve Boyd]

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
As Metro says I do a lot of "Driver Assessments" with company drivers,and some of the attitudes,and tailgating is frightening,BUT hey at least these companies are paying for a driver report,and are trying to sort out the "Bad eggs"
Sometimes i think the guy with the clean car ,is a faster driver,but many a time a safer driver,if the cars filthy,i beware !!
100 km/h is actually 62 mph. The National speed limit in the UK for HGV's on motorways is 60 mph.

[SGWilko]

Yep, but how drivers there often stay in the middle lane to forward plan for the next slip road even when the slip road is empty when they come to it? :p

If motorway driving was a compulsory 'next step' to complete passing the driving test, then we would not have these clueless morons who use the middle lane like a comfort blanket.

Trucks should not be allowed out of the inside lane - full stop. Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

[wedge]

Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

It's not necessarily the easiest option as most companies are operating on a just-in-time model.

[Mark]

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

[SGWilko]

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

Thanks to that Beeching chap, yes.

[SGWilko]

It's not necessarily the easiest option as most companies are operating on a just-in-time model.

We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

[Mark]

Thanks to that Beeching chap, yes.

Nah, Beeching can have some of the blame but most of it can be placed at the door of Sir John Major.

[ioan]

If motorway driving was a compulsory 'next step' to complete passing the driving test, then we would not have these clueless morons who use the middle lane like a comfort blanket.

Trucks should not be allowed out of the inside lane - full stop. Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

:up:

[ioan]

We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

:up:

PS: Is this becoming a trend or what?!

[ioan]

One of the biggest problems,on motorways,and not just for trucks,car drivers are equally at fault,and that's Cruise Control,some driver click cruise on and turn off the brain !Another problem with SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

I had one of these idiots 2 weeks ago when I left for holidays.
Male driver around 55 y/o driving some SUV at around 120 kph in 130kph zone while I was doing the usual 135 to 140 kph that the radars and police accept, so I pulled on the fast lane and went ahead.
When we were about level he decided that he would want to overtake a car that was still 200 meters ahead of him and doing a similar speed and almost ran me off the road, luckily I went for the Espace 2 months ago otherwise I might have been history by now. He went as far as using his horn to show his displeasure for me not suddenly vanishing from his path.

To be honest, the best way to improve traffic is to have an IQ test before giving someone a driving license, no license for those with a coefficient under 100. Problem solved.

[wedge]

We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

What are butchers & greengrocers? Never heard of 'em!

Most towns are blighted by superstores that now offer convenience, choice, well priced goods.

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

[ioan]

What are butchers & greengrocers? Never heard of 'em!

Most towns are blighted by superstores that now offer convenience, choice, well priced goods.

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

And all that while they employ not even half the people that are needed for SG's plan! Which means I'm all for what SG proposes cause it's healthier and sustainable. Screw Tesco and the likes.

[SGWilko]

:up:

PS: Is this becoming a trend or what?!

Worrying, init? :laugh:

[GridGirl]

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

Mark, Tesco do have trains that carry good across the country on a daily basis though. There is at least one route that runs between the Midlands and Scotland via the Lake Disctrict. I've seen it numerous times. :) I do conceed the points you are making. The trains are schedule to a degree with what they can carry and they are subject to long stops waiting to let comuter trains past.

[BDunnell]

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

Indeed. Those with a romanticised view of capitalism believe that every business has the chance to compete on a level playing field with the High Street giants. It blatantly isn't true.

[BDunnell]

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

What are the figures for amounts (i.e. percentages) of freight transported by rail in the UK compared to other European countries? I was under the impression that the UK lagged some way behind. Whatever, there is undoubtedly an obsession in some quarters with transporting freight by road when rail would be a perfectly acceptable alternative, backed up by a road haulage lobby that is far more powerful than its rail equivalent. And innovative ideas such as running freight trams, now seen on the streets of Amsterdam, have never gained much ground in Britain even when the infrastructure exists.

[SGWilko]

To be honest, the best way to improve traffic is to have an IQ test before giving someone a driving license, no license for those with a coefficient under 100. Problem solved.

The real answer is for the traffic cops to be given the power to issue more cautions for minor driving offences/bad driving. These cautions work in two ways - deleted from the records if a re-test is taken, or converted into points and a stiff fine if a re-offence committed within 5 years. Education is the key.

[SGWilko]

What are the figures for amounts (i.e. percentages) of freight transported by rail in the UK compared to other European countries? I was under the impression that the UK lagged some way behind. Whatever, there is undoubtedly an obsession in some quarters with transporting freight by road when rail would be a perfectly acceptable alternative, backed up by a road haulage lobby that is far more powerful than its rail equivalent. And innovative ideas such as running freight trams, now seen on the streets of Amsterdam, have never gained much ground in Britain even when the infrastructure exists.

The British mentality is fundamentally flawed. Most major cities HAD trams operating in them. Quite why they were all abolished beggers belief - only to be re-introduced (Sheffield, Croydon etc) at great cost and disruption during the construction phase.

[Mark]

The British mentality is fundamentally flawed. Most major cities HAD trams operating in them. Quite why they were all abolished beggers belief - only to be re-introduced (Sheffield, Croydon etc) at great cost and disruption during the construction phase.

The trams were very expensive to run, had crumbing infrastructure which badly needed completely replacing at great expense. vs diesel buses which didn't need tracks to run on, didn't need infrastructure apart from roads and bus stops and could go anywhere and be completely flexible, it's not hard to see why the trams were removed.

[SGWilko]

The trams were very expensive to run, had crumbing infrastructure which badly needed completely replacing at great expense. vs diesel buses which didn't need tracks to run on, didn't need infrastructure apart from roads and bus stops and could go anywhere and be completely flexible, it's not hard to see why the trams were removed.

So why bring them back? Take a look at Regent Street or any major London route these days - wall to wall buses stuck in a traffic jam, burning up diesel while stationary. If that isn't very costly as opposed to an electric powered tram, which only consumes power when moving then what is????

A traditional diesel bus really only ought to be used for rural services.

[Mark]

So why bring them back? Take a look at Regent Street or any major London route these days - wall to wall buses stuck in a traffic jam, burning up diesel while stationary. If that isn't very costly as opposed to an electric powered tram, which only consumes power when moving then what is????

A traditional diesel bus really only ought to be used for rural services.

Because the world isn't static. The situation we find ourselves in now is very different to when the trams were taken out.

[Bagwan]

Why are the trains gone ?

It is because there is a lot more oil burned by trucks , to get the freight to market .

In North America , most of the streetcar tracks in major cities were bought up by the oil guys , and replaced with busses .
Lucky are places like Toronto , that still have them .

If you can't beat'em , buy'em .

[Mark]

I don't think that was the case in the UK at least, as the trams were all run by local councils and until mid 1990 the heavy rail trains were run by the government.

[BDunnell]

Because the world isn't static. The situation we find ourselves in now is very different to when the trams were taken out.

In what way? Surely the re-introduction of trams in city centres would be anything other than a retrograde step. I don't see why buses represent progress.

[Mark]

In what way? Surely the re-introduction of trams in city centres would be anything other than a retrograde step. I don't see why buses represent progress.

Quite. Thats my point, for a while buses were the best solution, now trams have come back into usefulness. Just because trams were the best solution and are now the best solution doesn't mean they always were in the intervening time.

[BDunnell]

Quite. Thats my point, for a while buses were the best solution, now trams have come back into usefulness. Just because trams were the best solution and are now the best solution doesn't mean they always were in the intervening time.

Ah, I see. I should say that I don't necessarily think they are the best solution, but I do feel it's wrong to have abandoned them so completely.

[SGWilko]

Ah, I see. I should say that I don't necessarily think they are the best solution, but I do feel it's wrong to have abandoned them so completely.

The 'abandonment' section here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_London#Abandonment) is interesting.

[driveace]

Well in Melbourne the brown tram does an oblong block around the inner town and it's FREE,so all the office people,going from one office to another use it,so they don't have to use their cars.But the trams run well out of town too,as anyone who has been to Albert park for the GP will know ,in fact the trams run right down to St Kilda on the coast

[ioan]

Worrying, init? :laugh:

Depends if it happens on other subjects too. ;)

[ioan]

So why bring them back? Take a look at Regent Street or any major London route these days - wall to wall buses stuck in a traffic jam, burning up diesel while stationary. If that isn't very costly as opposed to an electric powered tram, which only consumes power when moving then what is????

A traditional diesel bus really only ought to be used for rural services.

I agree. There must be something in the water. :)

BTW they did the same idiocy with the trams in France, now they are rebuilding tram lines in every city.

[BDunnell]

BTW they did the same idiocy with the trams in France, now they are rebuilding tram lines in every city.

I think it depends to some extent on whether the buses are competently run. Here in Berlin, I think the buses are excellent — punctual, clean and popular. There are trams in the former East Berlin boroughs, but plans to extend the tram network further West seem generally to have been shelved. Only in one or two places, I believe, have tram lines been extended over the old border since the Wall came down. There doesn't seem any real need to have more tram lines. The networks complement each other very well, in my experience.

And let's not forget that the layouts of some cities perhaps lend themselves better to trams than buses, and vice versa.

[ioan]

Vienna is also a great example of how trams and buses, plus underground, can complement each other to give the best solution, and strangely enough they never gave up on their tram infrastructure which is 100+ years old (if I remember right).

[Gregor-y]

When I don't ride my bike I take a train that's been running with few changes since 1900.
Chicago's Railway Fight (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40D10FC3F5911738DDDAA0894D9405B 808CF1D3)
Busses in general are pretty slow going in town.

[Bolton Midnight]

Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity.

Canals - that's the answer for non perishable goods.


Indeed. Those with a romanticised view of capitalism believe that every business has the chance to compete on a level playing field with the High Street giants. It blatantly isn't true.

Aye these folk in these supermarkets are clearly forced to shop there at gunpoint!


Trucks with heavy loads can't accelerate to over 50 mph before joining, even if they tried. Or you'd have to rebuild the joining lanes to be longer.

Most joining lanes are down hill so that should help them, anyhow it isn't trucks that are the problem it is clueless women and old gimmers mostly.


One of the biggest problems,on motorways,and not just for trucks,car drivers are equally at fault,and that's Cruise Control,some driver click cruise on and turn off the brain!

Always use mine in contraflows, cruise on at 55, then have a smoke, fiddle with radio etc I'd be a lot safer at 70 and paying attention but 50 is the law/revenue collection limit.

Besides all cameras should be switched off if there's no workmen there, why have a 50 limit to protect some cones?

[Captain VXR]

Canals - that's the answer for non perishable goods.

Not for businesses using just in time stock management

[Bolton Midnight]

Not for businesses using just in time stock management

They just need to plan ahead a bit more, it's not that difficult.

[wedge]

They just need to plan ahead a bit more, it's not that difficult.

Yes it is.

A depot can hold so much goods and you can never predict ad hoc trends.

[Bolton Midnight]

sudden rushes for egg cups, plastic spatulas, envelopes - really??