Opinions please, does Hanninen have enough to beat Tanak in France

[Mintexmemory]

Given that Ott went very well in PWRC last year in France, does Juho have sufficient tarmac advantage to get a win? As far as I can see JH hasn't rallied in the Alsace before wheras Ott's notes from last year will still be very relevant

[N.O.T]

i think a new thread about it is pointless..you should have posted it in the official france thread.

The answer is No, but he will be close and he will win a few stages. Reason is that Fabia is better than the fiesta and Hanninen has a lot of experience on tarmac with the s2000.

[Mintexmemory]

i think a new thread about it is pointless..you should have posted it in the official france thread.

The answer is No, but he will be close and he will win a few stages. Reason is that Fabia is better than the fiesta and Hanninen has a lot of experience on tarmac with the s2000.

Apologies, o great arbiter of allowable threads. It's just that I wanted a specific debate without getting lost among the in-car vid stage descriptions. Anyway thanks for your illuminating answer to the question ("No") "Does Hanninen have enough to beat Tanak in France?" because "Fabia is better than the fiesta and Hanninen has a lot of experience on tarmac with the s2000." Extrema profunda!

[N.O.T]

ah indeed....i thought you asked the opposite...

but you have a funny perception (or none whatsoever) of rallying if you think that Ott will be the one to beat in France and hanninen will do the chasing....

can you imagine the fun we can have in here, if everyone who wants a bried comparison betwwen two drivers open a new thread ??

[Mirek]

For sure Hänninen can defeat Tänak. However that doesn't mean he will. We have to wait and see.

I personally hope it is wet because Juho prefers wet asphalt.

[Mintexmemory]

For sure Hänninen can defeat Tänak. However that doesn't mean he will. We have to wait and see.

I personally hope it is wet because Juho prefers wet asphalt.

How about dry weather but lots of mud from the cuts like last year? I don't see anyone else intervening in this fight - Prokop has looked some way behind this pair all season.
BTW Weather forecast (Colmar) is: Friday - dry and warm, Saturday - mainly dry (10% rain chance) and warm, Sunday - Early fog, then the same as Saturday. Looks like Juho won't have favoured conditions

[cali]

They are quite equal, but Juho has more tarmac experience. So I would say yes, Juho has what it takes to beat Tänak and vice-versa. It's down to lot of small things which can affect final result between those 2 drivers. We'll see.

Btw! Fabia nowadays is not clearly the best car as M-Sport has developed Fiesta in the right direction.

[bluuford]

For sure Hänninen can defeat Tänak. However that doesn't mean he will. We have to wait and see.

I personally hope it is wet because Juho prefers wet asphalt.

It will be bone dry. Now it is dry and it will be dry during the event. So, no hope of cutting mud.

[pantealex]

Juho is 18p ahead of Ott, so if Ott wins both France and Spain, it is enough for Hänninen to finish 2 and 3. He will be champion with 1p difference.
Think about that!

My opinion is: Juho can beat Ott

[Juha_Koo]

How about dry weather but lots of mud from the cuts like last year? I don't see anyone else intervening in this fight - Prokop has looked some way behind this pair all season.
BTW Weather forecast (Colmar) is: Friday - dry and warm, Saturday - mainly dry (10% rain chance) and warm, Sunday - Early fog, then the same as Saturday. Looks like Juho won't have favoured conditions

No mud from cuts this year. Because cutting in not allowed in Rally France this year, I talked about it this summer in Mikko's tests with local French guys and there will be sticks etc. prohibiting all cutting.

Oh, and yes, Juho can beat Ott - actually quite easily I guess.

[Barreis]

It's not over until it's over so let's wait and see.

[Mintexmemory]

No mud from cuts this year. Because cutting in not allowed in Rally France this year, I talked about it this summer in Mikko's tests with local French guys and there will be sticks etc. prohibiting all cutting.

Oh, and yes, Juho can beat Ott - actually quite easily I guess.

Interesting that the level of organisation will be good enough to 'block' all cuts. This all depends who the cut judge is, from my personal experience Loeb sees cuts that other drivers seem not to. Also the sticks may or may not remain in place depending on who is first on the road ;-). So the Finnish view seems to be that Juho will be happy to drive quickly enough for second place, will Skoda want the championship first and event win as a secondary consideration?

[Mirek]

For sure the title is more valuable than the single win.

About cutting... I also think it's impossible to prevent all cuts especially when some drivers simply cut everywhere no matter if it makes sense or not. I remember Loeb used to be very critical about such useless cutting in old Catalunya Rally... But as a spectator I love that :D

[darkstar]

hehe, defenetly ;)

[cali]

Oh, and yes, Juho can beat Ott - actually quite easily I guess.
Like he has "easily" struggled with Ott throughout the season ... gotta love you finns

[N.O.T]

On tarmac Juho can win for now without too much trouble (the first stages in Germany proved that), on gravel in 1-2 years Juho will not be worthy to carry otts shoes...

But Ott needs to go away from the Slowson sponsorship Plan team and go to a serious manufacturer, otherwise he can easily be the next Gardemeister.

[Hartusvuori]

Like he has "easily" struggled with Ott throughout the season ... gotta love you finns

I wish there wouldn't be any confrontation build between Ott and Finnish rally fans as there were between Markko and Bosse. It's useless. Personally I love seeing Ott building up his career with well-thought steps, and on stages the brand should be written "Tänak attack!".

Cali, Juho has easily struggled with Ott but not necessarily easily managed - but so far he has. :-)

[cali]

On tarmac Juho can win for now without too much trouble (the first stages in Germany proved that), on gravel in 1-2 years Juho will not be worthy to carry otts shoes...

But Ott needs to go away from the Slowson sponsorship Plan team and go to a serious manufacturer, otherwise he can easily be the next Gardemeister.
Germany results:
SS1
Juho 14:40.2
Ott 15:07.8
SS2
Ott 14:10.4
Juho 14:24.8
SS3
Juho 12:52.0
Ott 13:10.4
SS4
Ott 14:33.5
Juho 14:48.3
SS5
Ott 13:39.7
Juho 13:44.6
Overall after SS5:
Juho 1:10:29.9
Ott 1:10:41.8 +11.9 sec to Juho

I have talked to some of the guys from MM Motorsport and first stage loss was due to tyres (remember: SS1 dry, SS2 damp), hence the better time in SS2.

Before retirement Juho was 11.9 sec in front of Ott which proves us nothing really ;)
But clearly Juho has some more tarmac experience and is the favourite. To win this battle will not be "easy" unless one of them makes mistake or/and crashes.

[N.O.T]

not long before the event now and if it is dry we are going to have some good results to draw a conclusion... Lets hope they both have a trouble free run.

[rubla]

I personally hope it is wet because Juho prefers wet asphalt.

Remember SS2 from last rally - i would say Ott has some skills on wet too.

IMHO Juho would be stupid to take any risks in order to win in Germany. Martin Prokop is not quite up to Ott and Juho speed, so if Juho can keep Martin behind him, he is quite comfortable in terms of overall win. Going full speed against Tänak is just another gamble of who makes mistake first, and if it happens to be Juho, he may fall back in standings enaugh to give Ott chance he does not have at the moment.

[cali]

Remember SS2 from last rally - i would say Ott has some skills on wet too.

IMHO Juho would be stupid to take any risks in order to win in Germany. Martin Prokop is not quite up to Ott and Juho speed, so if Juho can keep Martin behind him, he is quite comfortable in terms of overall win. Going full speed against Tänak is just another gamble of who makes mistake first, and if it happens to be Juho, he may fall back in standings enaugh to give Ott chance he does not have at the moment.

SS2 was all about tyres :)

[Mirek]

Remember SS2 from last rally - i would say Ott has some skills on wet too.

IMHO Juho would be stupid to take any risks in order to win in Germany. Martin Prokop is not quite up to Ott and Juho speed, so if Juho can keep Martin behind him, he is quite comfortable in terms of overall win. Going full speed against Tänak is just another gamble of who makes mistake first, and if it happens to be Juho, he may fall back in standings enaugh to give Ott chance he does not have at the moment.

Juho had hard tyres (same as Hirvonen and Latvala), Ott had soft tyres (same as Loeb and Ogier). That was the difference.

[Raini]

Yes, Hänninen has the speed to beat Tänak, and yes, Tänak has the speed to beat Hänninen on tarmac, but wins who will take acceptable risks and wiser choices. Tänak is not just as much experienced to take greater risks as Hänninen , but Tänak can definetely make the pressure to Hänninen. But Hänninen in that case may just be clever, and will take second place in order to win championship.

And thinking otherwise, both Tänak and Hänninen has capabilities to blew it all up for France, and the winner is Prokop or somebody else.

[rubla]

SS2 was all about tyres :)

i know. but he wasnt alone on softs and still was putting quite the pace, so i would say he has some skills on wet too.

[N.O.T]

well we are never going to find out now....

[Mintexmemory]

well we are never going to find out now....

It's too early for all that speculation!!!!!

[N.O.T]

Wake up...

[rubla]

IMHO Juho would be stupid to take any risks in order to win in Germany. Martin Prokop is not quite up to Ott and Juho speed, so if Juho can keep Martin behind him, he is quite comfortable in terms of overall win. Going full speed against Tänak is just another gamble of who makes mistake first, and if it happens to be Juho, he may fall back in standings enaugh to give Ott chance he does not have at the moment.

Looks like Juho is trying to make life interesting for himself at last round. Rally is far from over put seems that Juho is no longer part of it.

[Raini]

Tänak definetely have been taken Hänninen under pressure, and so far Tänak has taken acceptable risks and wiser choices. But we will see how it goes tomorrow in France. IT's not over yet.

Hope there will be 20 of these guys like Tänak, Hänninen fighting for SS wins, victory and championships in future.

[Hartusvuori]

Tänak definetely have been taken Hänninen under pressure, and so far Tänak has taken acceptable risks and wiser choices. But we will see how it goes tomorrow in France. IT's not over yet.

That's could've been the case yesterday before the puncture, but today - there should not have been any pressure from Ott to Juho, that game was over. Has there been any video on Juho's crash? I think the pressure could come inside the team. Still - this is rallying and anything can happen whether driving on or off attack.

[cali]

That's could've been the case yesterday before the puncture, but today - there should not have been any pressure from Ott to Juho, that game was over. Has there been any video on Juho's crash? I think the pressure could come inside the team. Still - this is rallying and anything can happen whether driving on or off attack.
And Juho was pushing like hell.
Interesting, but both of the guys have made mistakes pushing each-other over the limit. I quite like this proper rallying attitude from both of them. I have enjoyed this SWRC edition a lot, thanks to Juho and Ott. Let the best man win in Catalunya!

[Hartusvuori]

On MTV3.fi Juho comments that he missed a breaking point a bit, slid wide into a ditch. There would've been enough spectators to pull him out, but suspension arm was broken, so no point. Small but costly error and damage. He will restart tomorrow and collect the few points that are possible.

It is true in fact about their approach to competition. After Rally Finland Juho commented that on Friday stages everytime he started a stage, he thought he had 50% chance to reach the finish, that was the level of commitment.

[rp]

Is it decided in Catalunya and that is good for the rally. Hopefully both drivers are able to drive without the punctures and mechanical problems and the faster driver there will take the SWRC title. Ott has definetely showed his skills and surely Hänninen has been a little bit surprised about his speed...

[A.F.F.]

I don't know the answer for the question in the thread but I do know that Tänak is scaringly fast, already with limited experience.

[rubla]

i had interesting experience last weekend on Saaremaa Rally (Ott drove there with 2003 Focus WRC) where he took on city stage one particular corner (which i use on my way home every day) with such a speed which i thought to be impossible by laws of physics. After him everybody else were like tourists, even 2nd place guy with 2007 Focus - and then he told to rally radio that he is just having relaxed race for fun, not taking any kind of risks and "just glad to be home" (btw he did beat this next guy more than 1 sec/km). It doesnt mean anything of course about his possibilities regarding Juho, but it strengthens my impression in him as terribly talented guy who can drive different car on different weekends and still be lightning-fast in almost everything with four wheels.

[Mintexmemory]

i had interesting experience last weekend on Saaremaa Rally (Ott drove there with 2003 Focus WRC) where he took on city stage one particular corner (which i use on my way home every day) with such a speed which i thought to be impossible by laws of physics. After him everybody else were like tourists, even 2nd place guy with 2007 Focus - and then he told to rally radio that he is just having relaxed race for fun, not taking any kind of risks and "just glad to be home" (btw he did beat this next guy more than 1 sec/km). It doesnt mean anything of course about his possibilities regarding Juho, but it strengthens my impression in him as terribly talented guy who can drive different car on different weekends and still be lightning-fast in almost everything with four wheels.
Thanks for the insight, I started this thread because I couldn't decide who to pick for the SWRC French round in an internet Fantasy Rally competition. I made the wrong choice, thinking that lightning wouldn't strike twice and that Juho would surely handle the pressure better than Ott - Wrong! Anyway, I expect Ott to take the title in Spain but because of the coefficient rate in the Fantasy competition Breen finishing 3rd or 4th with 1 stage win will score more points than Juho or Ott winning with 10 stage wins ;-) While Juho has been to Catalunya with an Evo before I don't think that this makes much difference, Ott is able to drive anywhere at a speed that seems incredible. I really hope he gets the Stobart car for Rally GB, that would be interesting!!!

[rubla]

I really hope he gets the Stobart car for Rally GB, that would be interesting!!!

I dont know if this is going to happen already in UK, but locals "know" that he has been promised Stobart ride for next year :) Local advance rumours have been right few times before...

[Hartusvuori]

I dont know if this is going to happen already in UK, but locals "know" that he has been promised Stobart ride for next year :) Local advance rumours have been right few times before...

It is clear that sooner or later he will sit in a world rally car. If that is already in season 2012 I hope all the maturity he has shown towards the end of this season will carry on in a turbo-charged car. Tänak Attack (=say that aloud three times) is the raw speed of this sport at the moment.

[rubla]

Regardless of this seasons final results, i believe also Juho moves on and i feel that Ott has very little to do in SWRC next year - unless by some miracle host of really fast guys join there. So moving on already 2012 might be bit too fast considering his experiences, but inevitable as staying in SWRC might be just year wasted. I quess it is really time to put PWRC and SWRC together, instead of diluting competition into different classes. As current WRC was developed on basis of S2000, i would say it is time to drop S2000 and continue with PWRC and WRC as 4WD classes.
(Sry off-topic)