Rally Sweden 2012

[EightGear]

He will have to.


Latvala 0.4 quicker on the first split.

[Elkoorps]

Latvala now 1.5 quicker, looks like hes got the pace.

[N.O.T]

Ostberg flies on this one....

Hirvonen safe run through...

[N.O.T]

It would be a real pity if Latvala lost the rally like this, so it is all good...

[darkstar]

defenetly! also looks like andersson is going to stay ahead of mikkelsen. would be so cool for proton winning the swrc and finishing 2nd in s2000 class!

[Miika]

Latvala the boss.

[Brother John]

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

[tfp]

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

???

[N.O.T]

Latvala wins the stage.

[JAM]

As I and Barreis predicted, Latvala made a mistake as usual. So pity the guy behind him is scared of his own shadow and missed this great chance.

If was a mistake, it was a small mistake compared to Loeb's mistake on Friday.

But this was not a mistake, and the inboard cameras will confirme it

[Tom206wrc]

I hope Loeb and Hirvonen will win 1-2 on the power stage now :mark:

[pino]

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

Whaaat ? :hmph:

[darkstar]

so, any livecoverage from the powerstage now or not?

[N.O.T]

Lets hope that the Sweden results persuaded some people that WRC is where the big boys play, and IRC is also nice to watch but a ladycup nonetheless.

[Brother John]

???

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

A discussion for after the rally and maybe in another thread. :p

[Marre]

any live stream for power stage? i have the regular swedish TV-chanels but nothing there :(

[pino]

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

A discussion for after the rally and maybe in another thread. :p

Or maybe in person just you and me :hmph: ;)

[rallyfiend]

any live stream for power stage? i have the regular swedish TV-chanels but nothing there :(

No Live coverage.

[Brother John]

Or maybe in person just you and me :hmph: ;)

Maybe Pino! :D :up: ;)

[Rallyper]

M. Östberg and P. Solberg get what they deserve.

A discussion for after the rally and maybe in another thread. :p

I still don´t understand what quote that was??

Mind your words son! :mad:

[Co-FIN]

..

[vkangas]

Pajunen makes some stunning times with Impreza. Third quickest on ss23 @ swrc and only 0,4s behind mikkelsen! Also leading production cars by over 5mins.. But i think R4 cars compete in same class as Super2000?
Yes he does! Also his first season with 4wd car.

[Mintexmemory]

As I and Barreis predicted, Latvala made a mistake as usual. So pity the guy behind him is scared of his own shadow and missed this great chance.

But you failed to predict that he would have so much in hand that it wouldn't matter a monkey's stuff! Also hitting a rock that is probably thrown up by previous traffic is not a mistake - just bad luck. We shall hear more later no doubt. ;-)

[EightGear]

Well this is something:

Bambuser | waxi1 (http://bambuser.com/v/2362709?player=html)

[BleAivano]

Well this is something:

Bambuser | waxi1 (http://bambuser.com/v/2362709?player=html)

good find.

[Mirek]

Pajunen makes some stunning times with Impreza. Third quickest on ss23 @ swrc and only 0,4s behind mikkelsen! Also leading production cars by over 5mins.. But i think R4 cars compete in same class as Super2000?

Only now when S2000 guys are cruising having nothing to fight for. Look at overall time difference for the weekend.

[andyone]

i hope latvala finishes in one pice and win the power stage. i guess he is on that mission.... Go Ford

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well this is something:

Bambuser | waxi1 (http://bambuser.com/v/2362709?player=html)

Great stuff, thanks. :)

[A.F.F.]

Whoops.... it definately isn't over till the fat lady sings. Just came back from a run and noticed Latvala's puncture. More drama the better taste of win :)

[Marre]

Bambuser | waxi1 (http://bambuser.com/v/2362709?player=html)

[BleAivano]

Sandell says that he is very happy and very happy to see all the Swedes at the stage(es). He is also grateful for all their support.

[A.F.F.]

Congrats Novikov !! Two solid rallies in a row. I must be dreaming ;)

[N.O.T]

Well done Novikov ... 2 rallies, no serious mistakes, some good speed from time to time....if he keeps it like that the whole season and improves on his speed i can see good things for him.

[Negaiss]

In the live stream at the finish interwiews looks like one reporter is compleatly drunk!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TV coverage at the finish but not of the PS... weird.

Anyone know what TV channel this is ?

[A.F.F.]

In the live stream at the finish interwiews looks like one reporter is compleatly drunk!

And sounds like one too !

[N.O.T]

Loeb pushed on this one...lets see....

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

AWESOME! Latvala-Hirvonen douple WIN!!! SUOMI FINLAND PERKELE!!!

Was there other drivers than Flying Finns or was this rally one of Finnish championship?!

[A.F.F.]

Loeb pushed on this one...lets see....

You're a little bit late!! Novikov got him .... like BOSS!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

JML Rally Sweden winner - fantastic !! :D

[BleAivano]

TV coverage at the finish but not of the PS... weird.

Anyone know what TV channel this is ?

i would guess that its not a tv-channel but rather someone that is broadcasting
via his laptop with a webcam or regular videocam connected.

[Juha_Koo]

In the live stream at the finish interwiews looks like one reporter is compleatly drunk!


And sounds like one too !

LOL, I've seen that guy somewhere... Maybe it was JM's test... I believe he's the reporter for that online stream. I don't understand how he has gained access to finish TC, they are amateurs (with capital A...).

[A.F.F.]

Congrats Jari-Matti :bounce:

Congrats Mikko :bounce:

All hail Finland :bounce:

[mm1]

Mr.Robot took max points on the power stage, fantastic effort. Would have liked the final day with out punctures.
Congrats to JML/Mikko/Mads!

[Mirek]

Martin Prokop almost got a point from PS. I think it was quite good rally for him.

[focus206]

Nice one Jari-Matti, let's hope he continues this way trough the season :)
Congratulations to Loeb for the Power stage and to Novikov also :D

[andyone]

winnerrrr!!!!!!

[mm1]

Martin Prokop almost got a point from PS. I think it was quite good rally for him.
Must agree with you, he`s speed is improving.

[Juha_Koo]

Excellent! Congratulations to Jari-Matti and Miikka, awesome display of speed and consistency. :up:

[Coach 2]

Loeb pushed on this one...lets see....

He did obviously the right choice, saving the tires and won the power stage with a good margin.

[N.O.T]

Great win by Latvala...he is back in the game now...very solid win.

Hirvonen did a good job...after all this year his job is to be ahead of Solberg, Latvala is Loebs business.

Dissapointed by solberg he did not show at any time he can compete with the rest works drivers...

Ostberg seems that he has reached his maximum potential...now driving for fun until he gets bored and waves goodbye.

Loeb could be the winner here, but too many mistakes... maybe next year, he now has 2 out of 2 power stage wins...heavy favourite for the title still.

Novikov impressed me....maybe finally he started to listen to Denis...he promised good things in Mexico...i cannot wait.

Ogier easily handling the ladycup champion... more stage wins, overall win and he just lost the lead once...in an event where the ladycup champion had many advantages... the overglorified (by some) ladycup competitors like Mikkelsen and Neuville must evolve into WRC class drivers or else back to local village events to be cheered by their yes men....they have time as their ally but they must start getting WRC class mentality, Loix is not competiting here to have someone to beat.

To be honest i was never fan of the Monte and the Sweden rallies, they are exciting since they offer something different but are rallies that are too specialised and no real conclusions can be made...glad we are done with them..

The real season starts in Mexico...there we can see better who is who.

[Viking]

So it should be ...

Loeb 39
Hirvonen 32
Solberg P 29
Latvala 27
Novikov 21
Sordo 18

[tolis]

Standings after Sweden:

Loeb 39
Hirvonen 32
P.Solberg 29
Latvala 26
Novikov 21
Sordo 18
Østberg 15
Delecour 8
Campana 6
H.Solberg 6
Tanak 4
Sandell 4
Prokop 3
Araujo 2
Brynildsen 1

[Mirek]

To be honest i was never fan of the Monte and the Sweden rallies, they are exciting since they offer something different but are rallies that are too specialised and no real conclusions can be made...glad we are done with them..

The real season starts in Mexico...there we can see better who is who.

IMHO the ideal state would be to have all events being something special. Than it makes things much more interesting. Another one of that kind used to be Sanremo with an army of asphalt specialists.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Blue and white...colours of victory! Our flag is so victorious!!

[A.F.F.]

Blue and white...colousr of victory! Our flag is so victorious!!

6-1 :D

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

6-1 :d
hell yeah!

[Ucci]

As a big Loeb's fan I must congratulate to Jarri M.Latavla, he was clearly the fastest all weekend and therefore he will take home deserved 25 ponits.
Second place driver Mikko: more than solide performance from him, no mistakes, car was perfect, probably first and last time this season in front of Loeb.
Third position: M.Ostberg, for me still very good result as this year he did not gain nothing with his start position on the first day compare to other top drivers. And to be beaten on snow by JML and Mikko is nothing to be ashamed of.
Fourt place: Peter, well this is maximum what can we expect of him. He did have some unluck with flat tyre on the last day, but to be honest, he was all three days fighting with Mads. Still, on some gravel events Peter can reach podium (especially if JML would hit troubles).
Novikov : more and more (positive) surprises from this guy. Apparantely he put in order his head, he listens his co-driver, the speed was no problem anytime....
And Mr.Loeb: he will walk away from Sweden with his head down, he and his fans expected more from him-and with his constant speed he was able to be on two, maybe three positions higher, but he made mistakes and he was punsihed for this. This is not a tragedy, alreday in Mexico the French flag will be on the first position. I have no worries or doubts about that...And thanks god for a win on the Power Stage.
SWRC: for me the real winner is PG, do not forget his unluck on Monte. Ogier did not convince me, he beat Mikkelsen yust for a lousy few seconds.
So, champagne for JML&Ford&Malcom, enjoy, as this year (again) there is much more reserved champagne for Loeb&Citroen...

[Tom206wrc]

Congratulations to Jari-Matti Latvala !!!! Even when we support other driver we must stay "sporty minded" :cool:

[A FONDO]

Well I am really satisfied, it was a thrilling rally with big suspense to the end and both nice and disappointing surprises.

IMO if Loeb just cruised through he would have stepped on the third place, but now its a little more interesting and he will be champion however.

Dont like Latvala but congrats to him raising a good enough margin with only a small fail at the end.

Repeat that Hirvonen is a coward and lost his maybe only chance for victory this year but his job is manu points and gathered good score.

Petter performed as usual, I said enough for him these days.

Mads achieved the best he could with his privateer fiesta against factory drivers.

Novikov made me happy again, he said he wants a podium this season and I kindly wish it! And hope Wilson Sr support him more with upgrades and discounts.

Pleasant surprises were: Prokop, Brynildsen, Tidemand, Al-Rajhi; and Breen, Paddon, Ogier, Neuville - quite good and deserved results for these youngsters.

Slightly disappointed / expected more from: Sandell, Araujo, PG, McRae, Attiyah, Oleksovich.

Now I can't wait for the tricky rally of Mexico with much better entries than previous seasons :)

[Coach 2]

You forgot to say anything unfavorable about Andreas M, SlowSon.

[A FONDO]

You forgot to say anything unfavorable about Andreas M, SlowSon.
yes I had him in my mind indeed. this boy had some strange illusion that he could and must compete with the superior team-leader, like Meek last year, but reasonably failed at the end. I strongly hope VW will send him back in village events and choose Kevin Abbring for the first team. :)

[Viking]

Latvala,wery good! and Hirvonen making it an Finland 1-2 Congrats to you guys :)

Petter still has his best start of an season ever, roll on Mexico win ;)

5 Norwegians in top 15, four in top 10... not to bad!

[Mirek]

6-1 :D

7:0 with us yesterday in ice-hockey :D By the way the highest loss for our team since the split with Slovakia...

[Mirek]

SWRC: for me the real winner is PG, do not forget his unluck on Monte. Ogier did not convince me, he beat Mikkelsen yust for a lousy few seconds.

Neither Ogier, nor Mikkelsen are registred for SWRC. PG IS winner.

[Viking]

I strongly hope VW will send him back in village events and choose Kevin Abbring for the first team. :)

That would be like when Decca Records said no too Beatles :D

[Co-FIN]

..

[Juha_Koo]

Not so good rally for Loeb, ok 3points from powerstage but he didnt have any pressure, nevertheless he will win in mexico.

Hold your horses, I'm waiting terribly fast speed from JM...

(Yeah, I know that I will be quoted and my phrase continued in some way :D )

[dimviii]

2012 ss times are faster than 2011. is it due to snow conditions? Did anything changed in the cars-tires specs?

only 0,2mm longer studs.

Congrats to Latvala,Mikko for their well deserved 1-2.
Time for champagne for our Finn mates!!
Loeb not good,but he was never so good at this rally.When you push over your limits,and don t feel comfortable=exit from road.Same scenario as Latvala hunting him at gravel events.
Petter Solberg not good.Factory driver,enough tests,powerfull engine,no money searching for his own team,but results same as last year.I ll wait for some more rallies to have a better conclusion,but i doubt it ll be different.
Novikov good progress,but they are only 2 rallies.Lets wait.
Ostberg show us the reason he was competing for win last year.Definetely start at better position last year.
Ogier very good,but i d like to see the battle with Mikkelsen till the end without team orders.PGA very fast and inside the road.Excellent for him.
roll on Mexico!

[dimviii]

yes I had him in my mind indeed. this boy had some strange illusion that he could and must compete with the superior team-leader, like Meek last year, but reasonably failed at the end. I strongly hope VW will send him back in village events and choose Kevin Abbring for the first team. :)

lololololololololololololololololololololololololo lololololololol

[tolis]

Day 3 photos added: Autosport : MS - Rally Sweden (SWRC) (http://www.autosport.cz/zavody/fotogalerie.php?id=61&id=979&autor=62)

[A.F.F.]

7:0 with us yesterday in ice-hockey :D By the way the highest loss for our team since the split with Slovakia...

We have lost too many finals to your team Mirek :)

[Mirek]

Maybe true, but the overall result in that stage was good also. But you cant put R4 and Super2000 cars in same line if you compare performances. Great result id say!

Of course, especially after PG told me that with Impreza the difference between N4 and R4 is rather small. I just feel it's not good to make conclusions from day 3 when many are cruising.

[ridder]

Latvala - very good, only mistake probably not his fault, would have imo won even if Loeb didn't land in snowbank

Hirvonen - good, but I was expecting him to do even better, after all this is his best rally of the year and Citroen should be better than Ford or?

Ostberg - showed that last year wasn't only due to road position, let's hope he does better on gravel raliles than last year. Has a plan to improve on tarmac.

Solberg - a bit worse than expected, without the puncture he'd most likely keep 3rd, but made 2 other mistakes (spin and stall) early as well, speedwise clearly behind the Fins

Novikov - very good, same speed as when he was crashing.. just without the crashing

Loeb - quite a disappointment, seemed to be slower than Latvala even before his first mistake, then added 2 more mistakes. While in the past he'd charge and win most stages now he "cruised" for 6th. Either he didn't had the speed, or the motivation, or both.

Sandell - was expecting him to fight with Henning

Prokop - very good, yes fast events like this suit him but still much better than a lot of people expected

Neuville - learning, well yes, but at a rather slow pace. First snow rally and first time in Sweden though... even Loeb was 17th first time in WRC in Sweden.

Tanak - moments with ok speed (around Novikov) and lot of mistakes, continues to show that experience is needed for a factory seed, raw talent isn't enough to just jump in

--------------------------------------------------------

Ogier - ok, strangely concerned that someone actually might be fast as well. One could start to wonder whether he thinks too much of himself... oh wait he said Loeb was worse than him and only good due to team orders :)

Mikkelsen - a bit better than expected, overall probably a bit slower than Ogier, but then again Ogier was top 3 WRC speed trough last year.

================================

As for the championship it's looking interesting

Loeb vs Latvala 1:1
Hirvonen vs Solberg 1:1

[N.O.T]

Loeb - quite a disappointment, seemed to be slower than Latvala even before his first mistake, then added 2 more mistakes. While in the past he'd charge and win most stages now he "cruised" for 6th. Either he didn't had the speed, or the motivation, or both.


he was less than a second behind him and gainning all the time (10 sec penalty excluded) before his mistake...but thank you for providing us with the bitter norwegian point of view...i will cherish it in my closet...for ever.

Thank you Mr Ogier, that felt good....

[skarderud]

Solberg - a bit worse than expected, without the puncture he'd most likely keep 3rd, but made 2 other mistakes (spin and stall) early as well, speedwise clearly behind the Fins

Ogier - ok, strangely concerned that someone actually might be fast as well. One could start to wonder whether he thinks too much of himself... oh wait he said Loeb was worse than him and only good due to team orders :)

Mikkelsen - a bit better than expected, overall probably a bit slower than Ogier, but then again Ogier was top 3 WRC speed trough last year.

well, where to start?

solberg: clearly slower than the finns? do we read the same lists with stagetimes? he's equal, 1 spin and 1 stall was the difference in time, exept the punckture. and remember, he is starting to know the car and the team, and he is also feel the pressure that he has to finish with good teampoints. thats his job, more or less.

ogier: is a crybaby and a wimp. he is actually so little sympatic that i realy hope he doesn't win anything. sad, but true.

mikkelsen: equal speed with the wimp, he has shown great mature throughout whole weekend, and a great face for a manufacturer. he is someone kids can look up on, and a good ambassador for the sport. and the teamorders was clear from the start, get to finish in one part.

[pucky54]

Slightly disappointed / expected more from: Sandell, Araujo, PG, McRae, Attiyah, Oleksovich.

What did you expect more from PG? Winning the event overall in S2000 car? :D :D

[skarderud]

yes I had him in my mind indeed. this boy had some strange illusion that he could and must compete with the superior team-leader, like Meek last year, but reasonably failed at the end. I strongly hope VW will send him back in village events and choose Kevin Abbring for the first team. :)


oh'no, another moron.......

[skarderud]

What did you expect more from PG? Winning the event overall in S2000 car? :D :D

exactly, in a proton! this is good performance!

[Mirek]

solberg: clearly slower than the finns? do we read the same lists with stagetimes? he's equal, 1 spin and 1 stall was the difference in time, exept the punckture. and remember, he is starting to know the car and the team, and he is also feel the pressure that he has to finish with good teampoints. thats his job, more or less.


Tend to disagree. The way how Petter always picks punctures, spins, offs etc. is not accidental. It is his way of driving which cause these problem (a lot spectacular though), not some kind of extreme bad luck every event.

[A FONDO]

What did you expect more from PG? Winning the event overall in S2000 car? :D :D
Thats why I put the word "slightly". I expected to be between Brynildsen and Prokop and of course beating the first S2000 despite securing the points. He has been in Rally Sweden 7 times (and several other snow rallies) and driving this car since a year.

[Mirek]

Thats why I put the word "slightly". I expected to be between Brynildsen and Prokop and of course beating the first S2000 despite securing the points. He has been in Rally Sweden 7 times (and several other snow rallies) and driving this car since a year.

But he was with a car which in more than three years of its existence didn't achieve more than few good stage times. I think that he did more than well.

And I forgot to mention that after the zero from RMC he MUST have finished and not to crash in a hunt for someone who doesn't take his points away.

[Doon]

well, where to start?

solberg: clearly slower than the finns? do we read the same lists with stagetimes? he's equal, 1 spin and 1 stall was the difference in time, exept the punckture. and remember, he is starting to know the car and the team, and he is also feel the pressure that he has to finish with good teampoints. thats his job, more or less.

ogier: is a crybaby and a wimp. he is actually so little sympatic that i realy hope he doesn't win anything. sad, but true.

mikkelsen: equal speed with the wimp, he has shown great mature throughout whole weekend, and a great face for a manufacturer. he is someone kids can look up on, and a good ambassador for the sport. and the teamorders was clear from the start, get to finish in one part.

I think your views are slightly bias.

Solberg was slower than the Finns. Only slightly, but he was.

Mikkelsen was slow than Ogier, but again not by much. To be honest Mikkelsen has been driving at WRC or IRC for a long time now so should be as quick as Ogier if he is to be the next big thing and worth of the 2nd VW seat. Mikkelsen 1st WRC rally in a WRC car was in 2006 Rally GB, for Ogier it was 2008 Rally GB. Plus AM has been driving the Fabia S2000 for a few years now.

[Mirek]

Just a little point. Fabia he drove now is somewhat different car. VW development already in...

[N.O.T]

When it comes to crying Norwegians are the new Finns...

Reminds me a lot the reactions of the finnish rally fans when Loeb started to dominate...first the tears, then they just don't bother with the sport...and now that Loeb has maximum 2 years left they are back again...

No matter how you want things to look the truth is there... Ladycup champion has A LOT to learn to be able to stand in the same team as Ogier...there will be no other rallies like sweden for him...the imaginary contracts he signs with the team VW do not count....he has big potential but things can go wrong if he loses focus.

As for Peter, his job was to be ahead of Hirvonen, he failed...and no excuses this time...Hirvonen had the same experience in a new car as him yet he rose to the occasion.

[pucky54]

and driving this car since a year.

But also the first time the Proton has run on snow and ice.

[Jafry]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/977/977_rally_sweden_2012_096bdb14eb.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/977/977_rally_sweden_2012_99f8cd40f9.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/977/977_rally_sweden_2012_c086812803.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/977/977_rally_sweden_2012_1d95555861.jpg

More photos from last day and podium HERE (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=977&fseason=2012)

[DonJippo]

Just a little point. Fabia he drove now is somewhat different car. VW development already in...

Is it for good or bad compared the previous Fabia he has driven?

[Coach 2]

he was less than a second behind him and gainning all the time (10 sec penalty excluded) before his mistake...but thank you for providing us with the bitter norwegian point of view...i will cherish it in my closet...for ever.

Thank you Mr Ogier, that felt good....

You mean to criticize Loeb is apparently unforgivable. I do not understand that what Ridder writes, seems that he is a bitter Norwegian, I do not know if he's Norwegian either.
But that Loeb's attempt to hang on the The Finns, resulting in "of the road", is probably just bad luck when it comes to him, but if others do the same, they are just bad drivers.
And that the Ogier could use the 7 more tires than Andreas is probable only in favor of Andreas and against Ogier, otherwise I probably sound like a bitter Scandinavian.

[Rallyper]

yes I had him in my mind indeed. this boy had some strange illusion that he could and must compete with the superior team-leader, like Meek last year, but reasonably failed at the end. I strongly hope VW will send him back in village events and choose Kevin Abbring for the first team. :)

You must be NOT in disguise. It´s a joke when you tell AM to go back to village rallies. Only NOT would express himself like that.

And expected more from PG? What do you mean? Please grow up.

[Mirek]

Is it for good or bad compared the previous Fabia he has driven?

I'm not the one to ask... I just noticed in Monte that it has different dampers and at least different cut-off.

[N.O.T]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2012/977/977_rally_sweden_2012_096bdb14eb.jpg
[/B][/URL]

Has Al attyah landed yet ??

[JAM]

My conclusions:

Latvala: A deserved win. He was fast as usual, but solid as not always usual. A good result to Ford too in a rally that is one of the bigest wining chances of this team.

Hirvonen: Always considered Hirvonen as a good no 2. This was one of the few opportunities to be in front of Loeb.

Ostberg: Good rally like in 2011. A snow specialist

And a few more...

P. Solberg: With no lucky today. Solberg will have a dificult year as a number 2, because their conditions are one step behind the ones that Latvala have.

Novikov: With solid perfomances this year. Let's see if with more speed in the future can mantain this solid perfomances.

Loeb: Made a mistake like Latvala made on MC. But he was luckier than Latvala, because he was able to be back to the stage. And nobody call him stupid has a lot of forum membres called Latvala on MC...

Sandell: The real value of a Prodrive's Mini. And believe me, the Mini's from Prodrive are really better than the others.

Ogier: Even in the Skoda he is as faster as was in Citroen, but he is better than Loeb because made mistakes, and we love to feel that the good drivers are humans too.

PG Andersson: The Proton is really better in terms of perfomance and reliability. And this was PG's rally.

Armindo Araújo: As a portuguese i have to comment Armindo's rally. Not impressive. I expected more, but that Minis from MI are some steps behind Prodrive ones. This shouldn't happen with a team that represents a manufacturer, but Prodrive are the ones who have the material and engineers. Let's see of we have good news in Mexico

[Martin Luijk]

I think your views are slightly bias.

Solberg was slower than the Finns. Only slightly, but he was.

Mikkelsen was slow than Ogier, but again not by much. To be honest Mikkelsen has been driving at WRC or IRC for a long time now so should be as quick as Ogier if he is to be the next big thing and worth of the 2nd VW seat. Mikkelsen 1st WRC rally in a WRC car was in 2006 Rally GB, for Ogier it was 2008 Rally GB. Plus AM has been driving the Fabia S2000 for a few years now.

Agree, there's only one difference. Mikkelsen was driving his first rally in a WRC when he was in a age of 18, Ogier when he was 25.

[N.O.T]

You mean to criticize Loeb is apparently unforgivable. I do not understand that what Ridder writes, seems that he is a bitter Norwegian, I do not know if he's Norwegian either.
But that Loeb's attempt to hang on the The Finns, resulting in "of the road", is probably just bad luck when it comes to him, but if others do the same, they are just bad drivers.
And that the Ogier could use the 7 more tires than Andreas is probable only in favor of Andreas and against Ogier, otherwise I probably sound like a bitter Scandinavian.

i never said that Loebs mistakes was due to bad luck...they were driver mistakes...i was refering to the quote about him being slower than latvala...if you check the times he would LEAD the rally before his mistake and without the 10 second penalty (which was because of service not driver error)...

critising someone based on true facts is acceptable...

Loebs critisism is that in this rally he cannot push to the maximum and avoid driving errors...thats why the only time he won it Gronholm had to retire...but to say that he is slower than the current finns is not accurate....when he was in the fight he was posting top times.

[A FONDO]

OMG we fell down to the amount of tires, next time it will be Ogier's breakfast or hotel room which gave him the crushing advantage over Mikelsen's better known surface and car! Grow up, norwegian fanatics, please! Its not pity to lose, its pity to excuse with ridiculous reasons!

[rallye-sport]

Photos Day 3 ! Photos Rallye de Suède 2012 (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/photos-rallye-de-suede-2012/)

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/photos-rallye-de-suede-2012/img_0760.jpg

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/photos-rallye-de-suede-2012/img_0871.jpg

[Doon]

Agree, there's only one difference. Mikkelsen was driving his first rally in a WRC when he was in a age of 18, Ogier when he was 25.

Does age matter though? Experience does more. AM has always been in a WRC car, his 1st events were driving Focus WRCs in the BTRDA (UK). Ogier's first taste of the top level was in 2008, previously he'd been in FWD cars.

[N.O.T]

About Ogier/Mikkelsen before the rally i said that Mikkelsen will be the one to do the chasing...i was once more proved correct (how odd ???)

By saying team orders were applied and other ridiculous stuff to suupport a driver you just give him excusues...you can see how this tactic worked for P.Solberg so i suggest you try and avoid it from now on...when you fail at something try and find what went wrong not excuses to your failure...that way you improve rather than sit on your ass and let the yes men handle things with propaganda without putting out hard work.

mikkelsen did a GREAT job in a rally he knows very very well and in a car he knows very very well....Ogier for now proved he is on a different league and that will show on the next events as well...Its up to mikkelsen to put his head down, grasp the opportunity of a VW drive and deliver us the next Peter Solberg (in his prime) when it comes to driving and not excuses....

calling people names and other stuff does not make your drivers go faster...

[Andre Oliveira]

Armindo Araújo: As a portuguese i have to comment Armindo's rally. Not impressive. I expected more, but that Minis from MI are some steps behind Prodrive ones. This shouldn't happen with a team that represents a manufacturer, but Prodrive are the ones who have the material and engineers. Let's see of we have good news in Mexico


I agree with that but i say more: The less experience of Armindo in this road type (Like almost all non-Scandinavians) and the poor testing program are a big handicap. Armindo may not be a championship contender but surely he can do more...

[VFTS]

I'm not the one to ask... I just noticed in Monte that it has different dampers and at least different cut-off.

Correct, VW use Sachs. Ogier have tested the Sachs-dampers a lot, also on snow. Mikkelsen tested the Sachs-dampers on snow for the first time last monday.
I find both Ogier and Mikkelsens pace these weekend impressing, but Ogier had 7 more tires than Andreas to use because he is a P2-driver.
And there were also teamorders.....

[skarderud]

OMG we fell down to the amount of tires, next time it will be Ogier's breakfast or hotel room which gave him the crushing advantage over Mikelsen's better known surface and car! Grow up, norwegian fanatics, please! Its not pity to lose, its pity to excuse with ridiculous reasons!

well, 7 more tires is not important? that doesnt do AM have to do tiresaving, when ogier don't need to? it was quite rough roads this weekend due to less snow than usual, more rocks in the roads and lots of lossed spikes for everyone.

it's hardly a bad excuse...............

but we can call it even, the are quite big talents both of them.

[Andre Oliveira]

Anyone have photos from car #73 Joakim Roman, Skoda Fabia S2000?

[Wim_Impreza]

Standings after Sweden:

Loeb 39
Hirvonen 32
P.Solberg 29
Latvala 26
Novikov 21
Sordo 18
Østberg 15
Delecour 8
Campana 6
H.Solberg 6
Tanak 4
Sandell 4
Prokop 3
Araujo 2
Brynildsen 1

Prokop must have 4 points. ;)

[Karukera]

Fantastic event and scennery, well at least for people like me born and living most of the time in the caribbean. :)

Hyvä JML ! He actually mastered the Rally, even under high pressure.
I think this one will boost up his confidence for good.
Happy Suomi nation. :up:

[skarderud]

If you want to bring nationalistic crap talk in here go join your nazi club of the neibourhood and keep the talks in there... everyone can be racist, nationalistic even if he comes from ****hole countries or world dominant countries...in this world unortunatelly (or fortunatelly) there will always be someone better and someone worse...


what are you talking about? yes, norway is a much better country than the bankerupt "hole in the ground", when i see how many post you have managed to write in here i stop wonder why greece is in this situation, if you are a normal greece worker...... something i hardly belive.

please dont use nazi and nationalistic words in here, it dosen't suit you. or the forum. or norwegians.

[Andre Oliveira]

Prokop must have 4 points. ;)

Ya, and Araújo 1. He finnished 10th in Monte Carlo.

[N.O.T]

Personal insults are just proof of losing an argument...

go count the tyres Ogier used when go to sleep....

[VFTS]

Anyone have photos from car #73 Joakim Roman, Skoda Fabia S2000?

He changed car, he drove a Subaru Impreza Sti

[Francis44]

Why is this discussion still going on?! Ogier is just a better driver than Mikkelsen.... and that's it.

Just the fact that Ogier started alone in cup cars and without money wins him a lot of respect, Mikkelsen had everything from the beggining with rich family.

[nafpaktos]

Last year Ogier was questioning Loeb's speed by words(and by his driving).He is still questioning his new mate's speed.This boy has a serious behaviour problem.

Ogier-sourse autosport
"I already said that we would have to watch for him," said Ogier. "His speed is good, but also it's difficult to gauge the fight - he is running further back on the road and in some better conditions on the road.

[Andre Oliveira]

He changed car, he drove a Subaru Impreza Sti

Thanks. Photos?

[Andre Oliveira]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=defCIVTkRgk&list=UUh5cWUjQ6bair65YMiD_dbA&index=1&feature=plcp

[tolis]

@Wim_Impreza: Sorry Wim, you are right! So, the official website made a mistake...
Joakim Roman drove an Impreza.

http://s13.postimage.org/gwvoy44ad/Roman.jpg
http://postimage.org/image/je7g5do6r/

[nafpaktos]

Why we did not have team orders for peter-mads?????????????m-sport doesn't need the points for the championship?

[Hartusvuori]

Congratulations to Jari-Matti and Miika! They so deserved this win, they were in control of situation throughout the rally. I'm happy that they got the first win this early in the season, it's good to go on from here.

Also very positive performance from young mister Novikov! This must've been his best, most solid WRC event so far. Also nice to see Mikko Pajunen had a clean run, good experience for him.

A question for those that spectated this event live: How did these new starting order rules change spectators behaviour on stages, especially those who go from stage to stage? A massive traffic jam right after No1, late arrivals after stage had already started?

[A.F.F.]

Reminds me a lot the reactions of the finnish rally fans when Loeb started to dominate...first the tears, then they just don't bother with the sport...and now that Loeb has maximum 2 years left they are back again...



:wave:

[ridder]

I decided to put on a flag in my profile, being accused of coming from a different country. Didn't do that before because I believe that looking first at the flag and then judging someone's comment isn't really the way to do it.


Anyway @Ogier vs Mikkelsen

Ogier has showed last year that he's one of the top 3 drivers in the world in terms of speed at the moment, no question about that. After Monte where he had no competition in the class there were voices putting him on a different planet in terms of speed, that's not really true as shown in Sweden. Mikkelsen and Ogier had roughly similar performance. Mikkelsen a bit slower, but closer than Hirvonen vs Latvala and you won't say Latvala is from different league than Hirvonen.

In terms of their experience:

Mikkelsen has actually done Swedish rally only 2 times before, same as Ogier. Last time he did it was 2 years ago, Ogier did it last year.
Yes he has more experience on the twisty and narrow roads that were on Friday, which the results showed. He does not have more experience on the Swedish roads.

People like to point out Mikkelsen drove WRC when he was 18 (actually even earlier). Yes his first 3 years as a rally driver were in WRC car on quite many WRC events, tough way to learn, but one to give you lot of experience. Nobody is fast out of nowhere though so most part of that should count as learning year. After that he had 2 years driving subarucup impreza (not even grooup N) and fiesta on Hankook tiers, before getting IRC contract last year.

Ogier spend his learning years in french championships and then in JWRC, before starting in WRC. Biggest difference is that he didn't had any break in his career like Mikkelsen did.

Mikkelsen is 5 years younger than Ogier and 2 years younger than Tanak.

In terms of road position:

Impossible to say how much effect roadcleaning had, Ogier was usually running around 10th position, Mikkelsen about 10 positions behind. In the past this wasn't thought to introduce big difference unless there was a lot of fresh snow. In the conditions on friday it probably had a bit more to say that on the other 2 days.
At the same time the late position for Mikkelsen introduced some other challenges - catching another car and much less light on the evening stages. So advantages and disadvantages compared the positions shouldn't have had a big impact.


Note I'm not trying to say that Mikkelsen is a better driver than Ogier with this wall of text. What I'm saying is that he is not very far behind.

============================

Btw. Mikkelsen runs for Volkswagen Motorsport trough this year(on more than 1 rally) as was announced among other places here: Volkswagen to run Kevin Abbring and Andreas Mikkelsen in WRC this year - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97002/)

So absolutely no idea why people would mention he doesn't have any deal with VW.

[Carlo]

Last year Ogier was questioning Loeb's speed by words(and by his driving).He is still questioning his new mate's speed.This boy has a serious behaviour problem.

Ogier-sourse autosport
"I already said that we would have to watch for him," said Ogier. "His speed is good, but also it's difficult to gauge the fight - he is running further back on the road and in some better conditions on the road.

Your glass must be half empty, I would read that quote as being from a competitor expressing respect for the abilities of another competitor and stating an obvious fact that it is difficult to gauge them together as they are not driving on the same road at the same time in the same conditions.

[Bartek]

I saw that someone expected something from Oleksowicz, don't expect anything. :) He is slower than best drivers in Poland, he have money so he can start is SWRC or where ever he want :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB2PQq639iI > hot moment for Tidemand

[Co-FIN]

..

[Tanelv]

Why we did not have team orders for peter-mads?????????????m-sport doesn't need the points for the championship?
Because Østberg was not nominated for any manufacturer points and Ford will get points for 1st and 3rd places :)

[Iskald]

OMG we fell down to the amount of tires, next time it willh be Ogier's breakfast or hotel room which gave him the crusfhing advantaacge over Mikelsen's better known surface and car! Grow up, norwegian fanatics, please! Its not pity to lose, its pity to excuse with ridiculous reasons!

I am so tempted to write something to you, Mr. Slow, that would get me instantly banned. But youre not worth the effort You have entered this forum with the most selfappreciative and totally negative attitude. You think this is cool, but the fact is that quite a few forumers feels like throwing up when they see your posts. Its like stepping into dog**** on the pavement. And this you have managed in a few weeks time...Our long-time selfappointed provocateur, N.O.T actually manages to be both funny and insightful once in awhile. You are the protege that forgot the funny and positive things...

[dimviii]

Your glass must be half empty, I would read that quote as being from a competitor expressing respect for the abilities of another competitor and stating an obvious fact that it is difficult to gauge them together as they are not driving on the same road at the same time in the same conditions.

Really? you can t compare times from 2 same cars from same team,at same rally,same day,same tyres, because they had 10 cars between them?
How can we compare? Only if they have number 2 & 3? Get real mate.
Ogiers comments about Mikkelsen were bull$it.Such comments you are not going to listen even from 8 times world champions.

[Wim_Impreza]

@Wim_Impreza: Sorry Wim, you are right! So, the official website made a mistake...
Joakim Roman drove an Impreza.

http://s13.postimage.org/gwvoy44ad/Roman.jpg
http://postimage.org/image/je7g5do6r/

No problem, mate. :)

[tolis]

Rally Sweden Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezKtzDXRHM

[tfp]

Our long-time selfappointed provocateur, N.O.T actually manages to be both funny and insightful once in awhile.

Really? Are there two different N.O.T's on this site ;)

Saying that, he did redeem himself tenfold when he called Jean Todt a ladyboy :rotflmao:

[N.O.T]

Rally Sweden Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bezKtzDXRHM

that first picture ruined it for me...

ITS NOT A RACE... ITS A RALLY !!!

[N.O.T]

N.O.T actually manages to be both funny and insightful once in awhile.

I try to be like that all the time...but people are not very smart and only get my wonderful jokes once in a while...

[dimviii]

About the Ogier vs Mikkelsen debate.....

i didn t saw,as many mates said, Mikkelsen slower than Ogier.
Till today morning was 12,8 secs difference.Dont think that such a diff can name Mikkelsen village :p driver.We compare him with (imho) 3 faster drivers at moment at wrc.

About the difference time at stages.Nobody mention (from drivers) that after 10 passages the road was destroyed,or the road was better.Minor differences that sometimes suit one driver,and sometimes the other driver.At last day only, we had mentions from drivers(and photos to proove) that stages were in bad conditions with gravel and rocks.Only Ogier from all the drivers at every stage stop,was mentioning Mikkelsens advantage.He forget to tell us that he used 7 tyres more,when Mikkelsen had to be carefull with less tyres.So advantage for Ogier for me(prooven) and not for Andreas(only Ogiers claims)

Last day was clearly team orders.If not ,i d like to explain me how Andersson could be equal with Ogier and Mikkelsen,and plenty times faster with good margin,while at previous 2 days was 1,5 minute back.

Another point is a mate mention, that Mikkelsen was driving wrc at his start.
There is nothing to compare between driving wrc car,and be a works driver.Works driver can have and 300 stage km between rallies,and he will compete with right setup,regardless of cost,and regardless of destroying a half million car.Its different to have a 200 persons team behind you,and totally different to have money to compete with a wrc.Also dont forget the subaru cup 2 years at national level,while Ogier was competing at wrc level with works team

Dont confuse Ogiers level with wrc car,with a s2000 car.Wrc car are very few to drive at 100%.S 2000 cars are not few that can drive at 100%.
With that i don t want to say that Mikkelsen is a better driver with Ogier.But with a s 2000 car i saw a 22 year old,without previous works support-experience, to be 12,8 sec in 2 days,behind one of the 3 faster drivers at wrc.

[Carlo]

I don't wish to make this personal but this isn't play station, His words were respectful of his fellow competitors ability then he added a throw away line, and as I am sure you are aware, media and keyboard specialist tend to pick up on throw away lines rather than facts when talking to competitors.

One of the hardest things to remember when you are being interviewed is to think fast and talk slow so that you do not use a phrase or throw away line that one would if they were actually talking to the person concerned for they would see your face and understand what you were saying, where as in the cold light of day the printed word can give a totally different impression.

Lets look forward to the next event and enjoy the battle between them, it's going to special

[dimviii]

"His speed is good, but also it's difficult to gauge the fight - he is running further back on the road and in some better conditions on the road.

Last year he was driving at hole championship at clear gravel,and Loeb was first at all rallies.He didn t mention it....

[dimviii]

. Either he didn't had the speed, or the motivation, or both.


no speed?till stage 6 (before spin) he was 6,9 sec from leader counting a penalty from late service.Without penalty was first with 3,1 sec.Thats not fast for you?
That he decide to secure points(he couldn t do something different) is not that he was slow.
To go flat out for 2 days with risk and gain what? 2 points(if he could gain 1 position more at sunday) while his real contenter Jarri has NO points at all?
Championship points margin from Jarri prooved his right decision at Sweden

[N.O.T]

Of course they were team orders....but before that we had 2 full days of rallying and Ogier was faster and mikkelsen chasing like a stray dog chases taxis...simple. All professional teams are like that with their drivers....it was in Mikkelsens hands to be the one to lead after 2 days...he did not...game over.

[dimviii]

Of course they were team orders....but before that we had 2 full days of rallying and Ogier was faster and mikkelsen chasing like a stray dog chases taxis...simple. All professional teams are like that with their drivers....it was in Mikkelsens hands to be the one to lead after 2 days...he did not...game over.

At 2 days, 263 km stages ,12,8 seconds.Can you calculate the average per km?

[Rallyper]

Why is this discussion still going on?! Ogier is just a better driver than Mikkelsen.... and that's it.

Just the fact that Ogier started alone in cup cars and without money wins him a lot of respect, Mikkelsen had everything from the beggining with rich family.

So that´s your problem... he´s from rich family. Why this jeallously s''' talk?

[tolis]

Qatar Airlines!!! :D

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/401334_361197527238458_100000446407467_1256477_206 2646256_n.jpg

[Francis44]

So that´s your problem... he´s from rich family. Why this jeallously s''' talk?

I am not jealous of him.... For me as a fan Ogier deserves 20 times more the respect Mikkelsen does.

Deal with it.

[julkki]

Why is this discussion still going on?! Ogier is just a better driver than Mikkelsen.... and that's it.

Just the fact that Ogier started alone in cup cars and without money wins him a lot of respect, Mikkelsen had everything from the beggining with rich family.

What the hell is your problem? Mikkelsen should be sorry that he has wealthy parents and some very good driving skills? Sometimes I wonder that does people in this forum follow RALLYING or just the stuff around it. I just want as much as possible competition to the top that we can watch some spectacular driving and exciting battles...that's what's rallying about.

[N.O.T]

At 2 days, 263 km stages ,12,8 seconds.Can you calculate the average per km?

No..the fact that he was slower will suffice...and the fact that many people thought Ogier would be the one to follow basing their arguments in some victories over WRC cast outs like Loix in lady cup competition makes this more enjoyable...

[pettersolberg29]

Of course they were team orders....but before that we had 2 full days of rallying and Ogier was faster and mikkelsen chasing like a stray dog chases taxis...simple. All professional teams are like that with their drivers....it was in Mikkelsens hands to be the one to lead after 2 days...he did not...game over.

Are you quite serious? Mikkelsen, a 22 year old with little experience within the VW team and needing to show consistent pace and therefore not pushing to impress the VW bosses, was within 15s of Ogier, the main man at VW and among the top 3 fastest rally drivers in the world at the moment, after 2 days of rallying. Yes, Ogier is the quicker driver, but Andreas showed tremendous pace and potential. Very few drivers in the world could beat Ogier by 10s+ over 18km with Ogier encountering no problems (and beating him on various other stages) - in fact only JML, Mikko or Loeb could. Therefore calling Mikkelsen a 'stray-dog' shows your ignorance or naivety or bias... or possibly all three!

[Francis44]

What the hell is your problem? Mikkelsen should be sorry that he has wealthy parents and some very good driving skills? Sometimes I wonder that does people in this forum follow RALLYING or just the stuff around it. I just want as much as possible competition to the top that we can watch some spectacular driving and exciting battles...that's what's rallying about.


Sorry but I just cant deal with all the hypocrisy most of the followers seem to have. For years and years we waited for a bright new star in the sport..... Finally in 2010 we got a new one, no one cared about the new star and most started talking sh** about him because he tried to compete with Loeb. It seems that the true stars get overlooked.

I have nothing against Mikkelsen, he is a good rally driver. If I had rich parents I would so do the same, but for one I would like to see people geving credit to the ones who really deserve it, and not just to drivers who got it way easier in their early career.

[dimviii]

No..the fact that he was slower will suffice...and the fact that many people thought Ogier would be the one to follow basing their arguments in some victories over WRC cast outs like Loix in lady cup competition makes this more enjoyable...

0,048 per km Andreas slower from Ogier with 7 tyres more........NOT so lady cup driver.
Anyway we ll have the chance to compare them at more rallies.

[Doon]

Of course they were team orders....but before that we had 2 full days of rallying and Ogier was faster and mikkelsen chasing like a stray dog chases taxis...simple. All professional teams are like that with their drivers....it was in Mikkelsens hands to be the one to lead after 2 days...he did not...game over.

Am I missing something......why do VW need team orders? They are not fighting in any Championship and none of their drivers are either, so I would think they'd let the quickest man win, and let everyone have a crack at Ogier so they can choose the fella they want to employ next year......right?

[N.O.T]

Are you quite serious? Mikkelsen, a 22 year old with little experience within the VW team and needing to show consistent pace and therefore not pushing to impress the VW bosses, was within 15s of Ogier, the main man at VW and among the top 3 fastest rally drivers in the world at the moment, after 2 days of rallying. Yes, Ogier is the quicker driver, but Andreas showed tremendous pace and potential. Very few drivers in the world could beat Ogier by 10s+ over 18km with Ogier encountering no problems (and beating him on various other stages) - in fact only JML, Mikko or Loeb could. Therefore calling Mikkelsen a 'stray-dog' shows your ignorance or naivety or bias... or possibly all three!

you are talking to a guy who calls sick dogs champions...be serious son...its called humour.

I agree with all the things above... i never said that mikkelsen is slow or a nobody...i said that he is slower than Ogier and that he still has to learn some things to be considered a top driver...

By the way i would not call Ogier a guy who can win in Sweden either... Ogiers highest place in Sweden is 4th...

put some things into context...

[N.O.T]

Am I missing something......why do VW need team orders? They are not fighting in any Championship and none of their drivers are either, so I would think they'd let the quickest man win, and let everyone have a crack at Ogier so they can choose the fella they want to employ next year......right?

they need team orders for bragging rights they won a rally in the s2000 class...

[Doon]

Qatar Airlines!!! :D

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/401334_361197527238458_100000446407467_1256477_206 2646256_n.jpg

I'm flying with Qatar Airlines next week, hope Nasser is qualified! ;) Anyone else been on Qatar airlines? Are they any good?

[N.O.T]

0,048 per km Andreas slower from Ogier with 7 tyres more........NOT so lady cup driver.
Anyway we ll have the chance to compare them at more rallies.

and Latvala was 16 sec faster after 349km of stages...work that out per km and answer the question who was faster Hirvonen or Latvala...

[Rallyper]

I am not jealous of him.... For me as a fan Ogier deserves 20 times more the respect Mikkelsen does.

Deal with it.

But you arguments are he has a rich family and that´s why he doesn´t deserve respect or atleast only one 20th of Ogier? Come on. Your comments are so meaningless.

[Doon]

they need team orders for bragging rights they won a rally in the s2000 class...

Really? Not sure they are too bothered at this point in time, they are off the radar anyway in terms of competition.....only us forum folk are really concerned with the time they set.

[dimviii]

you are talking to a guy who calls sick dogs champions...be serious son...its called humour.

I agree with all the things above... i never said that mikkelsen is slow or a nobody...i said that he is slower than Ogier and that he still has to learn some things to be considered a top driver...

By the way i would not call Ogier a guy who can win in Sweden either... Ogiers highest place in Sweden is 4th...

put some things into context...

who stole NOTs passwords/codes? :p

[julkki]

Sorry but I just cant deal with all the hypocrisy most of the followers seem to have. For years and years we waited for a bright new star in the sport..... Finally in 2010 we got a new one, no one cared about the new star and most started talking sh** about him because he tried to compete with Loeb. It seems that the true stars get overlooked.

I have nothing against Mikkelsen, he is a good rally driver. If I had rich parents I would so do the same, but for one I would like to see people geving credit to the ones who really deserve it, and not just to drivers who got it way easier in their early career.

There's a point in that. Ogier might be a little cocky but he's truly the best thing WRC has had in recent two years. That kind of drivers with pure skill that can compete in high level from the get-go are very rare. I'm a Finn and I think that Ogier is the most exciting driver to watch. Truly impressed with his performances, especially in NORF.

[N.O.T]

I'm flying with Qatar Airlines next week, hope Nasser is qualified! ;) Anyone else been on Qatar airlines? Are they any good?

very nice quality of service but ugly stewardesses...at least in flights from London to Doha

[N.O.T]

Really? Not sure they are too bothered at this point in time, they are off the radar anyway in terms of competition.....only us forum folk are really concerned with the time they set.

yes but we have relatives/families/friends....

[Francis44]

But you arguments are he has a rich family and that´s why he doesn´t deserve respect or atleast only one 20th of Ogier? Come on. Your comments are so meaningless.

No.... What I mean is that I credit more someone who fought for a chance than someone who didn't had to make much to have one. For me to compare Ogier with Mikkelsen is insulting.

However I hope Mikkelsen does well and I believe we might be WRC material soon.

[dimviii]

and Latvala was 16 sec faster after 349km of stages...work that out per km and answer the question who was faster Hirvonen or Latvala...

totaly different situation because the diff at this case was at almost continuesly at every stage for 3 days.At Ogier vs Mikkelsen at 2 days we were with half stages for each driver and a spin from Mikkelsen the diff was only 12,8. Without spin Andreas would be leader at end of day 2.Of course spins are part of the game,but you can t tell him slower than Ogier.

[Rallyper]

No.... What I mean is that I credit more someone who fought for a chance than someone who didn't had to make much to have one. For me to compare Ogier with Mikkelsen is insulting.

I compare drivers for what they do in the stages. Nothing else. Ogier is a runner upp since a couple of years. Let´s see in 2013. Mikkelsen is his teammate and so be it.

[Coach 2]

Let it be clear, Ogier deserves all the respect he can get. Drivers of his caliber, there are very few, maybe one in a million.

But it's precisely because of it, that AM deserves respect.

And when Ogier throughout the rally used every opportunity to explain that it was a big difference in starting position, he must have felt pressured.

And then we both agree NOT, it's ****ing great by an Lady Cup driver.

[N.O.T]

totaly different situation because the diff at this case was at almost continuesly at every stage for 3 days.At Ogier vs Mikkelsen at 2 days we were with half stages for each driver and a spin from Mikkelsen the diff was only 12,8. Without spin Andreas would be leader at end of day 2.Of course spins are part of the game,but you can t tell him slower than Ogier.

i can call him 12 seconds slower...

[pettersolberg29]

you are talking to a guy who calls sick dogs champions...be serious son...its called humour.

I agree with all the things above... i never said that mikkelsen is slow or a nobody...i said that he is slower than Ogier and that he still has to learn some things to be considered a top driver...

By the way i would not call Ogier a guy who can win in Sweden either... Ogiers highest place in Sweden is 4th...

put some things into context...

Fair enough - you support your argument so at least you're fair! And yeh Ogier is not the fastest in Sweden, but still only Loeb, Mikko and JML would be quicker in my opinion. I think Andreas is a star and yes I am therefore quite biased :D but there is no driver who even comes close to his pace or potential at his age. Do you agree with that?

[dimviii]

i can call him 12 seconds slower...

with spin,because without spin is faster. :D

[N.O.T]

but there is no driver who even comes close to his pace or potential at his age. Do you agree with that?

Novikov.

[pettersolberg29]

Novikov.

Hmmm I'm still 50/50 on Novikov - he's been very impressive this year so if he keeps that up then I agree. But I think Mikkelsen is a more complete driver as he has tarmac and snow pace where Novikov is less experienced.

[N.O.T]

with spin,because without spin is faster. :D

you do not know that...Ogier drove having Mikkelsen 12 seconds behind after the spin...maybe he would be even faster if Mikkelsen was 1 second behind or 1 second infront...

[skarderud]

yes, andreas father did had lot of money, he started wine-import at early '90, and sell the company first half of '00, if i remember right.
he lost most of his money after the financecrisis, and andreas had suddenly no team, car or what so ever.
then he started the same thing that petter, and mostly the rest of the rallydrivers did, go around to seek sponsors.
he get intouch with erik veiby/EVENrally that helped him with a subarucup car for norwegian championchip (NM).
he was a big talent in alpineskiing, i think he have a bronze as a 14-yrs old in world champs youth. he also was a good motorcross talent, but a serious kneeinjury stopped his plans for that career.
he also had a bad accident in a rally in norway, and killed a 10yrs old girl. then me and most other think that this was it. he showed great matureity and managed to come back, i think every of his cars have something memory of this girl, he has become a close friens with this family after this.

so to say that he had the easy way in, and dont forget what he acived, is speaking without any knowlegde.

ogier has had full backup from citroen from couple of yrs before his jwc, he hasnt bring anything for the last 5 yrs at least. and he has shown so big disrespect and so little maturness that i really cant find anything positive with this guy, exept his driving. but he have everytime a excuse, even bad, for whatever it is, and dont semms lika a teamplayer, after his citroenyrs.

[N.O.T]

Hmmm I'm still 50/50 on Novikov - he's been very impressive this year so if he keeps that up then I agree. But I think Mikkelsen is a more complete driver as he has tarmac and snow pace where Novikov is less experienced.

tarmac pace against Ladycup competition.

Potential is there for many drivers...but in rally especially in todays standards with so little teams willing to invest in talent there are a lot more things that can go wrong for someone with potential and waste it rather than go the right way...

[TG]

... but there is no driver who even comes close to his pace or potential at his age. Do you agree with that?

Well, JML is only 4 years older and he won in Sweden 4 years ago.

[DonJippo]

0,048 per km Andreas slower from Ogier with 7 tyres more........NOT so lady cup driver.
Anyway we ll have the chance to compare them at more rallies.

Where do you get this 7 more? In regulations it's either 24 or 30 tires depending of priority or am I missing something in there?

[Coach 2]

You are missing something, in Sweden they had 29 and 36

[Doon]

very nice quality of service but ugly stewardesses...at least in flights from London to Doha

Oh dear....bad eye candy! I'm doing Manchester-Doha, Doha-Jo'burg. More importantly do they serve booze? To be honest i'm dont like flying and just want to be assured that the aircraft are reliable :)

[Coach 2]

And if you can math (DonJippo), it's how many more tires in %?

[N.O.T]

Oh dear....bad eye candy! I'm doing Manchester-Doha, Doha-Jo'burg. More importantly do they serve booze? To be honest i'm dont like flying and just want to be assured that the aircraft are reliable :)

I HATE flying no matter the aircraft...flying is for birds not for animals with legs !!!

Aircrafts seem very nice...but as soon as turbulence begins all that goes out of the window and i pray to the gods to show mercy...

but they are reliable yes...about booze i am not sure, always too scared to ask for anything.

[DonJippo]

You are missing something, in Sweden they had 29 and 36

Take a look of this document, page 14 about tyres http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/uploads/Rally-Sweden-Supplementary-Regulations-2012.pdf. It says 30 tyres for P1 and P2 and 24 for all other 4WD plus 5 for both in shakedown/qualifying. Has there been changes to amounts after this document?

[Coach 2]

I think so.

[dimviii]

Where do you get this 7 more? In regulations it's either 24 or 30 tires depending of priority or am I missing something in there?

you are right Don Jippo.

[DonJippo]

I think so.

If there has been where is the official document about the change, did not find it from official bulletin board? I mean normally they don't make changes to regulations without informing about it.

[dimviii]

And if you can math (DonJippo), it's how many more tires in %?


20% less tyres.

[Pinto]

seeing on twitter of some issue with P-G's proton at post event scruitneering,any truth in this???

[DonJippo]

seeing on twitter of some issue with P-G's proton at post event scruitneering,any truth in this???

Look's like there is something going on http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/uploads/Stewards-Communication-No-2-doc.-2.3.pdf

[rbatista82]

Photos from Rally Sweden:
SuperMotores | Rally, Fórmula 1, WRC (http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=261)

More to come...
http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/WRC_Suecia2012_100015.jpg

http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/WRC_Suecia2012_100019.jpg

[DonJippo]

you are right Don Jippo.

So in practice it means with 30 tires you have one new tire more for each loop as there were two loops per day? Or two for three loops if they were carrying two spares with them but then you would not have new ones as spare after three loops, in case you change those during the loop? Does this make such a big performance gap?

[tolis]

Very nice picture...

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/929/53ouaou.jpg
http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg31/929/53ouaou.jpg

[dimviii]

So in practice it means with 30 tires you have one new tire more for each loop as there were two loops per day? Or two for three loops if they were carrying two spares with them but then you would not have new ones as spare after three loops, in case you change those during the loop? Does this make such a big performance gap?
you can carry 2 spares,and at next stage the crew can change themselves their 2 front tyres.Mikkelsen couldn t do it when he had destroyed tyres.
Ogier could push ie in a 24km stage flat out,and at next stage he could install his 2 spares.So again flat out as he had new tyres at front.Of course he didn t do it at all stages,but didn t all stages need new tyres.Mikkelsen couldn t have this chance with 6-7 tyres less.

[dimviii]

seeing on twitter of some issue with P-G's proton at post event scruitneering,any truth in this???

And Mc Rae Proton

[dimviii]

Very nice picture...

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/929/53ouaou.jpg
http://www.imgplace.com/viewimg31/929/53ouaou.jpg

Tolis fix the link,it is not visible.

[Coach 2]

So in practice it means with 30 tires you have one new tire more for each loop as there were two loops per day? Or two for three loops if they were carrying two spares with them but then you would not have new ones as spare after three loops, in case you change those during the loop? Does this make such a big performance gap?

Now it's sure not easy to follow what everyone says in the discussion, and I have not come up with excuses for Andreas M's result.
But when the discussion gave Ogier + because he had earlier start number, it can of course be nice to get all the facts which affect the result.

[DonJippo]

you can carry 2 spares,and at next stage the crew can change themselves their 2 front tyres.Mikkelsen couldn t do it when he had destroyed tyres.
Ogier could push ie in a 24km stage flat out,and at next stage he could install his 2 spares.So again flat out as he had new tyres at front.Of course he didn t do it at all stages,but didn t all stages need new tyres.Mikkelsen couldn t have this chance with 6-7 tyres less.

Actually if I am reading this document correctly, http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/19C04E81DF0FF28EC125796F005E0D10/$FILE/2012%20WRC%20Sporting%20Regulations%20+%20Appendic es.pdf page 47 section 62.1 it says you can't have 6 new tyres with you as it is allowed to take only 5 new ones per change, except Acropolis where you can take 6 new ones. So that in mind did Mikkelsen have such a big performance gap compared to Ogier related to amount of tires?

[JAM]

No.... What I mean is that I credit more someone who fought for a chance than someone who didn't had to make much to have one. For me to compare Ogier with Mikkelsen is insulting.

However I hope Mikkelsen does well and I believe we might be WRC material soon.

A usually portuguese way of thinking... :rolleyes:

I consider insultuous to say that about Andreas, and skarderud already explained why.

[DonJippo]

Now it's sure not easy to follow what everyone says in the discussion, and I have not come up with excuses for Andreas M's result.
But when the discussion gave Ogier + because he had earlier start number, it can of course be nice to get all the facts which affect the result.

I'm not digging anyone's excuses just wondering how big part this tire issue really had between them.

[Viking]

http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/uploads/Stewards-decision-no-1-doc.-2..6.pdf

Seems like PG and McRae has to add 2minutes to their times....

[ridder]

Finished watching 1 hour rally summary.

Close moments for Latvala, Hirvonen and a huge sideways slide by Solberg all from first two days that I didn't see before. Sordo, Tanak and Loeb going off all on same corner on day one (also new footage to me).

The puncture place today looked a bit weird. From Solbergs camera (on the left side of the car) it looked like the stone was just in the shadow between 2 sunny places, from Latvala's camera (on right side of the car) it didn't look so dark there. Anyway it was quite a strange place for a dangerous stone to be imo, on a relatively straight part (so can't see how it got dug out) and without any rocky hillsides (so it couldn't fall down).

Disclaimer: This is again not to start a conspiracy theory, just wouldn't expect it there.

[dimviii]

Actually if I am reading this document correctly, http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/19C04E81DF0FF28EC125796F005E0D10/$FILE/2012%20WRC%20Sporting%20Regulations%20+%20Appendic es.pdf page 47 section 62.1 it says you can't have 6 new tyres with you as it is allowed to take only 5 new ones per change, except Acropolis where you can take 6 new ones. So that in mind did Mikkelsen have such a big performance gap compared to Ogier related to amount of tires?

Thats not a problem,becayse some of your previous semi worn tyres, are not destroyed.So you can have 2 spares,one completely new and a used one.

[N.O.T]

The puncture place today looked a bit weird. From Solbergs camera (on the left side of the car) it looked like the stone was just in the shadow between 2 sunny places, from Latvala's camera (on right side of the car) it didn't look so dark there. Anyway it was quite a strange place for a dangerous stone to be imo, on a relatively straight part (so can't see how it got dug out) and without any rocky hillsides (so it couldn't fall down).

Disclaimer: This is again not to start a conspiracy theory, just wouldn't expect it there.

it was dug out from the ground from the cars infront...

[ridder]

http://www.rallysweden.com/wp-content/uploads/Stewards-decision-no-1-doc.-2..6.pdf

Seems like PG and McRae has to add 2minutes to their times....

So 2 mins for 72 and 82 grams of difference on handmade parts, which Proton blames on inaccurate scales used during homologation.


Tbh I don't really like the penalty, actually think it's too low and smells politics = FIA trying to be nice to Proton to keep the manufacturer interested.
Had this happened to a privateer he would be disqualified instantly. Many examples of that before.... Prokop in Argentina with worse brakes, Bryndilsen in UK, Solberg in France etc etc.

[Coach 2]

Actually if I am reading this document correctly, http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/19C04E81DF0FF28EC125796F005E0D10/$FILE/2012%20WRC%20Sporting%20Regulations%20+%20Appendic es.pdf page 47 section 62.1 it says you can't have 6 new tyres with you as it is allowed to take only 5 new ones per change, except Acropolis where you can take 6 new ones. So that in mind did Mikkelsen have such a big performance gap compared to Ogier related to amount of tires?

Since you have trouble understanding that this gives an advantage. Even though it maybe was not decisive in this case.
How many fewer tires do you need befor it matter. 30% -50%.

[dimviii]

So 2 mins for 72 and 82 grams of difference on handmade parts, which Proton blames on inaccurate scales used during homologation.


Tbh I don't really like the penalty, actually think it's too low and smells politics = FIA trying to be nice to Proton to keep the manufacturer interested.
Had this happened to a privateer he would be disqualified instantly. Many examples of that before.... Prokop in Argentina with worse brakes, Bryndilsen in UK, Solberg in France etc etc.


i am not in favor of Proton,but some times when some parts are under the car,can lost weight from rocks chipping the metal.As you saw they weighted new parts and they were ok.

[Viking]

So 2 mins for 72 and 82 grams of difference on handmade parts, which Proton blames on inaccurate scales used during homologation.


Tbh I don't really like the penalty, actually think it's too low and smells politics = FIA trying to be nice to Proton to keep the manufacturer interested.
Had this happened to a privateer he would be disqualified instantly. Many examples of that before.... Prokop in Argentina with worse brakes, Bryndilsen in UK, Solberg in France etc etc.

It for sure don't mean much for them, PG still SWRC winner but drop behind Neuville and Mikkelsen in the overall standings...

[ridder]

i am not in favor of Proton,but some times when some parts are under the car,can lost weight from rocks chipping the metal.As you saw they weighted new parts and they were ok.

That's why the parts have tolerances, the new ones are on the low edge of the tolerance.

Anyway my point wasn't what is fair/unfair relative to the advantage gained. My point was that when it comes to privateers they get kicked out for anything, when it comes to teams the punishment is always milder in last few years. Last time some team got kicked was with Peugeots 206. Then Ford got just a time penalty for windows and Citroen even smaller time penalty for stabilizers.

Prokop in Argentina 2009 got disqualified for using year old 30 mm brake discs (allowed size was 28-30 mm in 2008), when newly from that year Evos were allowed to use only bigger 32 mm ones (to improve braking). So disqualified for using worse parts...

Bryndilsen in GB got disqualified for using smaller brake calipers.

[dimviii]

you are right ridder.

just to mention that weight tolerances are given because of manufacture differencies is possible to have any spare part,casting or hand made.Of course Proton had to be inside these tolerances.

[Viking]

That's why the parts have tolerances, the new ones are on the low edge of the tolerance.

Anyway my point wasn't what is fair/unfair relative to the advantage gained. My point was that when it comes to privateers they get kicked out for anything, when it comes to teams the punishment is always milder in last few years. Last time some team got kicked was with Peugeots 206. Then Ford got just a time penalty for windows and Citroen even smaller time penalty for stabilizers.

Prokop in Argentina 2009 got disqualified for using year old 30 mm brake discs (allowed size was 28-30 mm in 2008), when newly from that year Evos were allowed to use only bigger 32 mm ones (to improve braking). So disqualified for using worse parts...

Bryndilsen in GB got disqualified for using smaller brake calipers.

Best one.. Hanninen, excluded from the rally for not wearing the correct fireproof underwear :)

[danon]

Why is this discussion still going on?! Ogier is just a better driver than Mikkelsen.... and that's it.

Just the fact that Ogier started alone in cup cars and without money wins him a lot of respect, Mikkelsen had everything from the beggining with rich family.



Rich or poor... NO MATTER WHAT IF YOU ARE ON TOP!!!

Poor you!

Envious soul!

Get rich or... stop cryin'!!!

[N.O.T]

Get rich or... stop cryin'!!!

I prefer the classic

get rich or die trying...

or my version

Get rich or kill others trying...

[DonJippo]

Even though it maybe was not decisive in this case.

I think your sum up is to the point, Ogier was just quicker end of story.

[danon]

... he was a big talent in alpineskiing, i think he have a bronze as a 14-yrs old in world champs youth. he also was a good motorcross talent, but a serious kneeinjury stopped his plans for that career.

Here we talk about a serious set of skills.

The motocross (C. McRae) and skiing (he-himself) develope mechanical and mental skills on another level. Similar to Loeb this guy should be able to fly-by... and to backflip.
A new star shines in the (VW) galaxy.
Doubt it not!

[Munkvy]

One point I haven't seen anyone raise is that Ogier was at this event after a fairly big off in his first event working for a brand new employer.

Clearly he isn't a snow expert and you would be mad to think he would be comfortable pushing to the limit from the outset in Sweden as a result of the previous accident. That sort of thing knocks your confidence and would surely put some doubt over his performance with VW, further impacting his performance...

So I think we should all give credit to both him and Latvala for turning around after their previous poor results and putting in excellent performances.

I am also a little disappointed with Tanak. Yes I know he is also not a snow expert, but I would have expected him to be able to keep the car on the road and keep a measured approach to learning the event. But he is young and will no doubt learn that...

[danon]

Get rich or kill others trying...

That's a one to remember :D

[N.O.T]

So 2 mins for 72 and 82 grams of difference on handmade parts, which Proton blames on inaccurate scales used during homologation.


Tbh I don't really like the penalty, actually think it's too low and smells politics = FIA trying to be nice to Proton to keep the manufacturer interested.
Had this happened to a privateer he would be disqualified instantly. Many examples of that before.... Prokop in Argentina with worse brakes, Bryndilsen in UK, Solberg in France etc etc.

Burns excluded because of 50 grams lighter flywheel in his pug 206... so PG was lucky i guess...

[danon]

I am so tempted to write something to you, Mr. Slow, that would get me instantly banned. But youre not worth the effort You have entered this forum with the most selfappreciative and totally negative attitude. You think this is cool, but the fact is that quite a few forumers feels like throwing up when they see your posts. Its like stepping into dog**** on the pavement. And this you have managed in a few weeks time...Our long-time selfappointed provocateur, N.O.T actually manages to be both funny and insightful once in awhile. You are the protege that forgot the funny and positive things...

You DID hit the bull's eye with that one! :imubash:

[Red bull]

Correct, VW use Sachs. Ogier have tested the Sachs-dampers a lot, also on snow. Mikkelsen tested the Sachs-dampers on snow for the first time last monday.
I find both Ogier and Mikkelsens pace these weekend impressing, but Ogier had 7 more tires than Andreas to use because he is a P2-driver.
And there were also teamorders.....
whatever happened there is no way you can compare Ogier with Mikkelsen's driving,I seee Ogier in the heavy weight division although at time he takes a few punches.

[6789]

Great rally. Hope that JML can do it again in Mexico! I think qualifying stage and then reverse order has worked well

[Viking]

I think qualifying stage and then reverse order has worked well

Sort of, but I still thinks it should be just for P1 and P2 drivers in an wrc car.

Funny that "Loeb-rule" turned against him, and I might be just a tiny bit tired of Pablo Nobre speeches at the end of season...

[6789]

Sort of, but I still thinks it should be just for P1 and P2 drivers in an wrc car.

Funny that "Loeb-rule" turned against him, and I might be just a tiny bit tired of Pablo Nobre speeches at the end of season...
Well he's probably going to get plenty of experience cleaning the road lol

[Brother John]

All threads seem to be different bars currently, or is this forum the large bar club?
okay it seems we're here on this thread in the Sweden rally bar if I read all these discusions.
:D I thought that rally fans follow the rally to look at the cars and follow the results from drivers and want to see who will win this rally? ;)

[Mirek]

Putting aside the Ogier/Mikkelsen fight the alone fact P1, P2 drivers have more tyres than the rest is fundamentally wrong.

[A FONDO]

Putting aside the Ogier/Mikkelsen fight the alone fact P1, P2 drivers have more tyres than the rest is fundamentally wrong.
P1 and P2 have more tyres because of the mandatory qualifying stage (plus 2 training) on gravel, and on tarmac they are obligated to do at least 4 passes

[Mirek]

P1 and P2 have more tyres because of the mandatory qualifying stage (plus 2 training) on gravel, and on tarmac they are obligated to do at least 4 passes

All drivers have an option to use 5 extra tyres for shakedown which is pretty enough also for 3 km long qualifying stage.

[JAM]

I prefer the classic

get rich or die trying...

or my version

Get rich or kill others trying...

I prefer get rich doing nothing and spending someone's money

[N.O.T]

I prefer get rich doing nothing and spending someone's money

you cannot get rich by spending....

[logic]

you cannot get rich by spending....
You have to spend money to make money

[Tomi]

I prefer get rich doing nothing and spending someone's money

You mean like your government does? Please dont.

[Barreis]

Not happy that Latvala won but he was fastest driver whole weekend.

[Brother John]

For once I agree with you, that is a pub picture..... :)

I Have it moved to the forum pub. :wave:

[dimviii]

I Have it moved to the forum pub. :wave:

no problem BJ ,my bad,definetely was pub talk.

[dimviii]

Not happy that Latvala won but he was fastest driver whole weekend.

i am happy whatever driver wins.The point is to have a healthy,intresting,breathtaking championship,without big gaps from start.
If Loeb was winner again,we had to wait for a mistake of him for all the season.Thats not interesting...

[Red bull]

eWRC.cz - P-G Andersson obdržel dvì minuty penalizaci (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=18831&title=p-g-andersson-obdrzel-dve-minuty-penalizaci)

[Gard]

i am happy whatever driver wins.The point is to have a healthy,intresting,breathtaking championship,without big gaps from start.
If Loeb was winner again,we had to wait for a mistake of him for all the season.Thats not interesting...

+1 and that what's most peolple wants. Except the manufactores. They only wants their preferred driver to win.

There is now one exception. Until friday, Ogier was a hero. I like people with some attitude and "cockyness", when performing good. So I liked Ogier. Not anymore. Whining wimp, he basically threatened VW to make Mikkelsen back off. He wanted to shine alone.

[Brother John]

i am happy whatever driver wins.The point is to have a healthy,intresting,breathtaking championship,without big gaps from start.
If Loeb was winner again,we had to wait for a mistake of him for all the season.Thats not interesting...

Best post in this thread since there is this one.

[JAM]

You mean like your government does? Please dont.

Not mine, but the greek.

Now we are doing the right things, and paying the mistakes from a recent past.

[JAM]

you cannot get rich by spending....

In a long term, no. But in a short or medium term, yes, it's possible. Greece did it.

[dimviii]

Maybe we can have some beer at the Finland Rally?

off topic,remove it to pub talk.

[Brother John]

off topic,remove it to pub talk.

Okay no problem.

[Tomi]

he basically threatened VW to make Mikkelsen back off. He wanted to shine alone.

Why not for once put the money where your mouth is, and tell what exactly did Ogier say to VW he will do if Mikkelsen wont back out.

[Red bull]

:confused:
Why not for once put the money where your mouth is, and tell what exactly did Ogier say to VW he will do if Mikkelsen wont back out.

What did he say?? :confused:

[danon]

I created an avatar as a first step to the long thorny pat of richness.

Get rich or... (one's own text)! :D

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/2368/richk.jpg

[Red bull]

Rally Sweden 2012: Ogier a castigat duelul Volkswagen | Rally Magazin (http://www.rallymagazin.ro/rally-sweden-2012-ogier-a-castigat-duelul-volkswagen-52136.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

[peg306]

Some highlights from the places we visited :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqi8ytQo-TM&list=UUYry0UyFlYk2pgWxqo1oGIw&index=1&feature=plcp

[rbatista82]

Photos from Rally Sweden:
SuperMotores | Rally, Fórmula 1, WRC (http://supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=262)
http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/WRC_Suecia2012_200003.jpg

[Gard]

Why not for once put the money where your mouth is, and tell what exactly did Ogier say to VW he will do if Mikkelsen wont back out.

I didn't get the full conversation and don't know who the guy in VW clothing was. Could be Ogiers boyfriend for all I know.

What he said was someting like this:
He (Mikkelsen) was there to finish the rally and perform some development tasks. He was only close because of road position and he is not as fast. He needs to ease of or they would be running to fast. And something about, Ogier needed to take to big risks.

[Francis44]

Its a shame to see sucess always brings haters. Thankfully there are more suporters than haters.

Best of luck for next rally's Ogier.

[tfp]

I think its a good thing that we are asking these questions, keeps things interesting in WRC - having someone who wins as many rallys in a season as Loeb, vurses the IRC champ.
Personally, my money would rest with Ogier, I just think he has slightly more talent than Mikkelson. Thats not to knock mikkelson however, he is very good and maybe possible champion in the future? Or maybe not, but either way, AM has very good opposition within his team!

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen,not Mikkelson

[N.O.T]

still better than the AM....

Let just the F1 ladyboys use initials for their girlfriends...

[dimviii]

nice photos!!

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/12/15/26/89/68622410.jpg

[dimviii]

http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/12/15/26/89/68470610.jpghttp://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/12/15/26/89/68622412.jpghttp://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/12/15/26/89/68622411.jpg

[Miika]

Haven´t seen this mentioned here before so I don´t know if it is true or not, but this one claims that Latvala crashed into a civil car during the recce:

"Jag kunde ha dött i kollisionen" - nwt.se - Ditt Värmland, just nu! (http://www.nwt.se/hagfors/article1054912.ece)

[Hartusvuori]

In a blunt way, if someone would ask me why I love rallying, that picture of Go Fast -livery Henning flying above the spectators should do the speaking for me. That's the whoa effect, and there's more in the nuances.

[darkstar]

finnish mtv3max showed those onboard specials last year, does someone know if they show them this year too? i´m really sad that there are no onboards, also from monte...

[Red bull]

MaxRally | News | Mikkelsen relishes experience with Volkswagen (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/mikkelsen_relishes_experience_with_volkswagen/?utm_source=maxrally&utm_medium=twitter)

[Hartusvuori]

finnish mtv3max showed those onboard specials last year, does someone know if they show them this year too? i´m really sad that there are no onboards, also from monte...

As far as I know, they haven't showed them anymore. I'm not paying for MTV3 Max chanel, but there was some talk about it on Finnish forum.

[JAM]

Its a shame to see sucess always brings haters. Thankfully there are more suporters than haters.


It's just like having family money to start rallying. It bring haters too.