What does the future hold for Williams?

[Knock-on]

Possible the last true Garageist on the grid. With Sam leaving, supplier issues and a less than optimal lineup, will Frank and Patrick be the people to lead the team forward or is it time to hand over the reins?

Will they even survive the next few years?

I fear this is the pivitol point where they may slide into obscurity?

[Mia 01]

I hope they get Nokia as sponsors next year, then they will be fine.

[ioan]

Bugger all.

[DexDexter]

I hope they get Nokia as sponsors next year, then they will be fine.

Nokia isn't in a position to sponsor anybody on this scale, the company is in deep you know what with their aging Symbian phones and yet-to-be announced Windows phones.

[Stuartf12007]

A manufacturer

[shazbot]

Sam Michael leaving is a bonus - what has he actually achieved? Since '04 the team has spiraled down the constructors championship. The new head of aero is a very talented guy who last worked for the team '02. Around that time Frank and Patrick had one of their episodes of firing the good guys and taking on some very questionable staff, non of which lasted very long, right at the point that the aero dept in particular was gelling well. I'm hopeful they will creep up the grid again next year.

[jens]

Okay, Williams has hired Mike Coughlan. But this man hasn't been in F1 since 2007, so I'm unsure, how much of an addition he will bring to the team, because his latest F1 experience is already a bit outdated. Overall I have to say that regardless of the changes they are making I don't expect this team to achieve much until the change of ownership. It doesn't necessarily mean a manufacturer support, but also a big company in general, like Red Bull has managed to turn the Milton Keynes team into a winning squad. Currently Williams isn't as attractive name in F1 circles any more either, which would convince big companies to want to sponsor them.

[Mia 01]

Okay, Williams has hired Mike Coughlan. But this man hasn't been in F1 since 2007, so I'm unsure, how much of an addition he will bring to the team, because his latest F1 experience is already a bit outdated. Overall I have to say that regardless of the changes they are making I don't expect this team to achieve much until the change of ownership. It doesn't necessarily mean a manufacturer support, but also a big company in general, like Red Bull has managed to turn the Milton Keynes team into a winning squad. Currently Williams isn't as attractive name in F1 circles any more either, which would convince big companies to want to sponsor them.

The bright future is around the corner.

[ArrowsFA1]

With Sam leaving, supplier issues and a less than optimal lineup...
Supplier issues :confused:

[Knock-on]

Supplier issues :confused:

Sorry, I meant Sponsor issues.

[Rollo]

I don't know, I think that Supplier issues are pretty important for Williams.

In 1998 when Renault abandoned Williams the results dried up and 1999 wasn't much better. It echoes 1989 when the Judd engines that Williams had were atrocious.
Basically Williams because it doesn't build it's own engines is rather at the whim of the engine suppliers. Ever since BMW left, neither Toyota or Cosworth have produced a particularly brilliant engine. Neither Mercedes, Renault or Ferrari would supply Williams with engines because they probably see them as a potential threat.
The last time a Cosworth won a GP was in 2003 and even then it was because Webber crashed, causing the race to be red flagged. The last time time a Cosworth won a GP under normal circumstances was when Schumacher was driving for Benetton in 1994

I think that Williams' best option is to hook up with someone like VAG or even drag Hyundai or Kia into F1 and tie up an exclusive deal.
Staying with Cosworth is a little like trying to play Monopoly when everyone else has houses and hotels but you don't have any.

[ArrowsFA1]

Basically Williams because it doesn't build it's own engines is rather at the whim of the engine suppliers.
True, but the same could be said of Red Bull or McLaren.

[Rollo]

Red Bull yes, McLaren... not quite so much. McLaren used to be 40% owned by Daimler though that's being drawn down and by 2015, McLaren will be a stand alone entity. I expect that in 2015, McLaren will supply its own engines.

Red Bull face an identical problem that Williams did in 1997. Williams did well for a while with Renault engines... It's all great and fine until Renault pull out.

[Malbec]

I fear this is the pivitol point where they may slide into obscurity?

I think they're already in their death-spiral.

People point to Mike Coughlan, the question isn't how good he is, its why Williams couldn't poach someone already at an existing F1 team without a sullied past to lead their team. What is Coughlan's experience of turning around mid-grid teams with limited resources? Arrows? The team that overspent in a bid to go up the grid and went bust? What are they doing to boost their mid and lower level engineers and management which is where the problem lies.

The fact that Sam Michael has very quickly found employment at a top team, supposedly also courted by Ferrari shows that the paddock doesn't feel that the problems at Williams lay with him.

Also, Williams' main strength and weakness SFW is getting old and will have to pass on control of the team. The instability that will ensue can only hurt them. Their recent stock market flotation was because Patrick Head wanted to cash in on his share of the team, at some point SFW will want to do the same too.

On the plus side at least they are profitable and have expanded their engineering consultancy subsiduary.

[555-04Q2]

Frank needs to sell a share of his business to a rich investor, get some decent sponsorship and pay for some decent drivers and developers. Sadly, his business model is stuck in late 80's early 90's and it shows :(

[Mark]

Indeed back in the day you just needed to get a tobacco sponsor, they'd throw money at you and away you go. These days it's not so simple.

[ArrowsFA1]

Frank needs to sell a share of his business to a rich investor, get some decent sponsorship and pay for some decent drivers and developers. Sadly, his business model is stuck in late 80's early 90's and it shows :(
In November 2009 SFW sold a minority interest in his team to Toto Wolff that will see the investor own between "10 and 49 per cent". Williams have also floated a share of the team on the Frankfurt stock exchange.

While Williams are not rich in terms of sponsors, nor do they find themselves needing to paint "this could be you" on the side of their cars.

Drivers? I tend to agree. Lovely fella though he is, Rubens looks like he's heading for the exit door and Maldonado, although improving, is not going to set the world alight, but before they can pay big bucks for decent drivers the team needs a better car and engineering team, and moves have been made in that direction.

Williams are not a team stuck in the 80's or 90's, business or otherwise. Far from it. SFW has little time for past success and appears to have a financially stable team.

We know money can't buy success in F1. Just look at how long it's taken Red Bull to get where they are now, or how, despite plentiful resources, it took Ferrari 21yrs to repeat Schecter's WDC title.

It's almost 15yrs since the last Williams title which is far too long, but I'm not writing them off.

[555-04Q2]

In November 2009 SFW sold a minority interest in his team to Toto Wolff that will see the investor own between "10 and 49 per cent". Williams have also floated a share of the team on the Frankfurt stock exchange.

While Williams are not rich in terms of sponsors, nor do they find themselves needing to paint "this could be you" on the side of their cars.

Drivers? I tend to agree. Lovely fella though he is, Rubens looks like he's heading for the exit door and Maldonado, although improving, is not going to set the world alight, but before they can pay big bucks for decent drivers the team needs a better car and engineering team, and moves have been made in that direction.

Williams are not a team stuck in the 80's or 90's, business or otherwise. Far from it. SFW has little time for past success and appears to have a financially stable team.

We know money can't buy success in F1. Just look at how long it's taken Red Bull to get where they are now, or how, despite plentiful resources, it took Ferrari 21yrs to repeat Schecter's WDC title.

It's almost 15yrs since the last Williams title which is far too long, but I'm not writing them off.

I think Williams are lacking the financial clout to develope their cars at the same rate as the now top teams. In the 90's Williams were the aero development standard that everyone was chasing. The same goes for their suspension designs etc etc. I think they are battling to replicate their past design innovations. That mantle seems to have passed on to McLaren and Red Bull.

Williams is also famous for not paying his drivers great sums of money or putting up with their cr@p. In the past it may not have been a major issue, but these days top drivers want anything from US$ 15 million upwards and like to throw their toys out the cot every now and then. They have also had no stable driver line-up for some time now, another factor which may hinder consistant feedback for car development with the factory and engineers.

All I know is for a team that has such a great history in the sport (second only to McLaren & Ferrari) they are in no mans land at the moment.

[Robinho]

They could get away with paying less when they could provide a car that they could win in. The money was not what drew people to Williams. Now they have neither the money or the successful car and will need to improve one or both to attract a top line driver again

[ArrowsFA1]

I think Williams are lacking the financial clout to develope their cars at the same rate as the now top teams. In the 90's Williams were the aero development standard that everyone was chasing. The same goes for their suspension designs etc etc. I think they are battling to replicate their past design innovations. That mantle seems to have passed on to McLaren and Red Bull.
My guess is that's down to Adrian Newey more than money. Success seems to follow him rather closely :D

[DexDexter]

I hope they can somehow reverse this trend but I see money as being the main issue. Money alone does not make a successful team, true, but to me a successful team needs a good organisation, drivers and money. Money is needed to fix driver issues and organisational problems.

[555-04Q2]

My guess is that's down to Adrian Newey more than money. Success seems to follow him rather closely :D

True that :up:

[Malbec]

Williams have also floated a share of the team on the Frankfurt stock exchange.

While Williams are not rich in terms of sponsors, nor do they find themselves needing to paint "this could be you" on the side of their cars.

The money raised from the flotation did not go to the team. IIRC the shares were released from Head's stock in the team and the money went to him, effectively he is setting himself up for retirement.

Amazingly I don't think sponsorship is a problem for Williams, they have been in profit for several years in a row now. Even this year they're running a profit. They're living within their means so their survival isn't in doubt right now but it will be if they slip further in performance. The problem is making the most of what they have.

[ArrowsFA1]

The money raised from the flotation did not go to the team. IIRC the shares were released from Head's stock in the team and the money went to him, effectively he is setting himself up for retirement.
You may be right but my point about the ownership & floatation related more to this:

Sadly, his business model is stuck in late 80's early 90's and it shows.
I don't think a floatation is an indication that the Williams business model is from another time. It indicates to me that the team are looking to their financial future, which despite on track results seems reasonably secure.

[Malbec]

I don't think a floatation is an indication that the Williams business model is from another time. It indicates to me that the team are looking to their financial future, which despite on track results seems reasonably secure.

Floating the company on the stock market and not investing the money raised in the company is not a method of securing any financial future. Its an indication that Patrick Head wants to retire and have the money to enjoy his final years, and also a marker that Williams is not about to be sold off to a manufacturer.

That said Williams have been diversifying their engineering services for a while, just not as visibly as McLaren and thats definitely a move on from the '90s. Also they have lobbied hard to protect their business model (and that of much of the rest of the sport) by fighting the introduction of customer teams. That is more than some other teams have done.

[IceWizard]

Bugger all. Sadly I have to agree with. Such a shame that very average drivers like Maldonado are guaranteed their seat thanks to sponsorship and Barichello could lose his seat to another driver who can bring plenty of funding with them. It isn't as though it has happened before either. Remember Nakajima anyone?

[zako85]

Williams should not have parted with BMW. That was a bonehead move. Everything unraveled after that. Right now, Williams reminds me an early 1990s Lotus. The next season is probably crucial for Williams. If they don't accomplish good results with Renault engine, there will be little hope for this team. I can imagine it will end up being bought by some major corporate player on the cheap.

[zako85]

Red Bull face an identical problem that Williams did in 1997. Williams did well for a while with Renault engines... It's all great and fine until Renault pull out.

I think today, engines have a significantly smaller impact on relative performance of car than in the 90s and 80s, when you could have one engine reving to 12000 RPM and another to 16000 RPM. Today the engines are rev limited and the number of engines is limited per team. Top end performance is still important but now takes a backseat to reliability IMO. I am sure Red Bull will be fine, specially with recently signing up with Renault for another 5 years. With Renault supplying more and more teams, I doubt it has plans to get out of F1 real soon. I can see Cosworth being squeezed out of F1 by Renault unless FIA limits the number of teams supplied by one manufacturer.

[BDunnell]

Williams should not have parted with BMW. That was a bonehead move.

I have always considered it a stroke of luck that BMW never bought Williams outright as it wished to at one time. There could very well be one less team on the grid now.

[zako85]

BMW bought into Sauber instead, then sold it stake back, not a big deal..

[F1boat]

I think that the problem for Williams started even before BMW. As a kid I supported them, because Mansell won the first race I have ever watched in Williams-Renault. Later, they got rid of him. Then, after 1996, they got rid of Damon. They were very arrogant and assumed that they can make every driver champion and if he fails to win the championship, he should be blamed. I don't think that they were fair to Damon Hill, who was a good developer of the car and a very quick driver, who was unfortunate to be a rival of the one of the greatest drivers ever (and I am politically correct here, I believe MSC to be the best ever!). In reality they weren't that special. Newey built brilliant aero, Renault was a great engine. That's it IMO. Got what they deserved in the end, and still I will be upset if they disappear from the sport, which unfortunately seems likely.

[Mark]

Agree with that totally. I do like Williams but not letting Hill defend his championship still annoys me even after all these years.

[ArrowsFA1]

They were very arrogant and assumed that they can make every driver champion and if he fails to win the championship, he should be blamed.
I know one former Williams driver who didn't win a championship in 5yrs with the team who, I think it is safe to say, would fundamentally disagree with that view of Williams.

To say that Williams "got rid of" Mansell is oversimplifying the circumstances considerably IMHO. Mansell could have stayed with the team and defended his title in 1993 right up until he spoke at his press conference at Monza. It was as much his choice to leave as Williams's decision.

As for Damon Hill, we know the decision to replace him was made, and contracts signed with Frentzen, during the 1995 season. Of course Hill went on to win in 1996 and Frentzen proved to be a disappointment, but the decision to replace Hill should be seen in the context of 1995.