Black and White flag

[Mark]

Don't they have this available in F1?

They are talking about MS being warned for his driving but there is a standard way in motorsport to do that.

[airshifter]

Well I for one think the radio communication from Ross woke MS up much more than any flag could have! :)

I'm not sure about the flags, maybe due to the quick communication in F1 they relay directly to the team and driver rather than have the marshalls wave the flag.

[steveaki13]

Well I for one think the radio communication from Ross woke MS up much more than any flag could have! :)

I'm not sure about the flags, maybe due to the quick communication in F1 they relay directly to the team and driver rather than have the marshalls wave the flag.

This is probably right.

I mean only once I personally thought MS was over the line of good hard racing was that double move into Lesmo 1. However whether that would warrant a flag I don't know.

Other than that I thought both Lewis and Michael had one of the best scraps I have watched for years, it all seemed really hard but fair defending and attacking. Just sorry that it ended in a damp squib.

I enjoyed that alot more than the breeze past DRS overtakes put it that way.

[ArrowsFA1]

Don't they have this available in F1?
I would have thought so, but I don't clearly remember it being used...1994 British GP perhaps, or was that just the black flag?

[Mark]

That was an immediate black flag IIRC

[555-04Q2]

Well I for one think the radio communication from Ross woke MS up much more than any flag could have! :)

Ross was warning The Shoe to leave space in case Hammy boy tried one of his Banzai moves.

[Knock-on]

It's amazing how we can come up with so many diverse views!

We have had coded messages from Ross warning that Lewis might be trying a banzai move to a theory that Mercedes want their car to move out the way because they want to promote a competitor of theirs who just happen to have a Merc engine powering it. :confused:

Some people here are obviously wasted and should be concentrating their creative bent to literary writings or artwork!!

It's almost incomprehensible for some people to acknowledge that Schumy was at least on the very edge, and on occasions past, what is permissible within the rules, the FIA told Ross to ensure he minded himself and his boss came on the radio to make sure Schumy got the message, TWICE

It's not rocket science chaps. Sometimes the bloody obvious is indeed the truth and there is no conspiracy.

As for the flag, the last time I remember it being used was when Schumy kept overtaking Hill on the warm up lap. I think the flag was used then before he was finally disqualified.

I have a funny feeling it has been used since then in the race but can't recall when.

[Bruce D]

Don't they have this available in F1?

No, they just don't have balls to enforce the rules anymore. They should watch a Speedway GP meeting, those guys don't care who you are, you break the rules you are out and they take less than 5min to decide on it too.

[555-04Q2]

It's amazing how we can come up with so many diverse views!

We have had coded messages from Ross warning that Lewis might be trying a banzai move to a theory that Mercedes want their car to move out the way because they want to promote a competitor of theirs who just happen to have a Merc engine powering it. :confused:

Some people here are obviously wasted and should be concentrating their creative bent to literary writings or artwork!!

It's almost incomprehensible for some people to acknowledge that Schumy was at least on the very edge, and on occasions past, what is permissible within the rules, the FIA told Ross to ensure he minded himself and his boss came on the radio to make sure Schumy got the message, TWICE

It's not rocket science chaps. Sometimes the bloody obvious is indeed the truth and there is no conspiracy.

As for the flag, the last time I remember it being used was when Schumy kept overtaking Hill on the warm up lap. I think the flag was used then before he was finally disqualified.

I have a funny feeling it has been used since then in the race but can't recall when.

Ross is a smart guy. He probably figured out that at some stage Hammy was going to get past The Shoe anyway and a fifth place finish is better than a no place finish, which Hammy has been doing to himself and several drivers lately. I can't read "leave space for Hamilton, Michael" as anything other than watch out that he doesn't take you out or vice versa!

[The Black Knight]

Ross is a smart guy. He probably figured out that at some stage Hammy was going to get past The Shoe anyway and a fifth place finish is better than a no place finish, which Hammy has been doing to himself and several drivers lately. I can't read "leave space for Hamilton, Michael" as anything other than watch out that he doesn't take you out or vice versa!

You can't read it as a Watch out or you might get a penalty warning? Seriously, like? I mean it's obvious what it was. But hey, maybe the sky is green too.

[555-04Q2]

You can't read it as a Watch out or you might get a penalty warning? Seriously, like? I mean it's obvious what it was. But hey, maybe the sky is green too.

Or maybe you have a different opinion to me. Now that is an amazing concept. I'm wrong, you're right...you're wrong, I'm right. Who really gives a toss?

[The Black Knight]

Or maybe you have a different opinion to me. Now that is an amazing concept. I'm wrong, you're right...you're wrong, I'm right. Who really gives a toss?

Surely you gotta be open to the possibility that your opinion just may be utter BS though? :p

[Bagwan]

So , it looks like Charlie got a call from McLaren .
Charlie looked at the issue , and did not issue a call to the stewards , but called Ross instead .

This must have meant that Michael was on the edge of what was allowable , but not over .
If this was a move that was completely unexpected , then I think we would have seen a penalty , warranted or not .

But , If I am recalling correctly , Michael was moving right for many laps , to close off that line .
From the replays I saw , it didn't look like there was a distinct move right all of a sudden , but rather a straight line to take the counter move away .
Hamilton tried to run into the closing gap , and didn't get far enough along before running out of track .

As it turned out , Ross told Michael to leave room .


Now , that can be interpretted as a warning from Charlie , and then a warning from Ross , which might seem a bit strange , but , is it really so strange or unprecedented ?
The Macs complained , and it would stand to reason that they would seek to talk to both sides .
Ross then saw fit to inform his driver that the rival was complaining about his tactics , specific to one corner .

In doing so , he also made Michael aware he had an increasingly frustrated driver behind him .


I watched the Brit feed first , and Brundle and Coulthard ripped the shoe to shreds after the Hamilton grass episode .
I then watched some of the same race with Speed , and although Hobbs was hard on him , the tone of the moment was much less scathing on Michael .

It was a great dice between a great cornering car and a great top speed car .

[Knock-on]

Nice post Baggy :up:

[MAX_THRUST]

I think Schuis double move was not on but the other move where Lewis ended up on the grass was not that bad, am I the only one. I'm not a MS fan, but he tool a racing line, Lewis could have gone around the outside, and ended up on the grass, I just think Lewis didn't have the speed to pass at that stage. Mostly I thinkl MS was protecting the inside line, and just slowed them both down. Loved every minuute of it. Good racing, even if Lewis didn't feel it was so great then In years to come he'll look back and revel in it. He siad he always wanted to race wheel to wheel with MS, and now he has.

[wedge]

I really wish they rid of that stupid Article. Like team orders rule it has proven to be more troible tham its worth.

[ioan]

Or maybe you have a different opinion to me. Now that is an amazing concept. I'm wrong, you're right...you're wrong, I'm right. Who really gives a toss?

:up:

[Bagwan]

I really wish they rid of that stupid Article. Like team orders rule it has proven to be more troible tham its worth.

Which stupid article is troibling you ?

[ArrowsFA1]

I really wish they rid of that stupid Article. Like team orders rule it has proven to be more troible tham its worth.
Agreed. There shouldn't be rules explaining to drivers how to race each other but, as has been discussed before, previous well documented & blatant incidents have passed without any meaningful sanction leaving the door open to others. Drivers themselves know what is acceptable, but pushing the limits in the absence of penalty led, eventually, to the need for the one move rule.

[555-04Q2]

Surely you gotta be open to the possibility that your opinion just may be utter BS though? :p

Funny, I had the very same thoughts about your opinion :p : ;)

[wedge]

Which stupid article is troibling you ?

Article 20.2 of sporting regulations:

"Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted."

It seems like its fine to cut back to regain your line at corner entry but not break the tow or however you want to interpret or apply at one's discretion.

I'm all for hard racing but you only need to time your one move to block to create controversy.

[wedge]

Agreed. There shouldn't be rules explaining to drivers how to race each other but, as has been discussed before, previous well documented & blatant incidents have passed without any meaningful sanction leaving the door open to others. Drivers themselves know what is acceptable, but pushing the limits in the absence of penalty led, eventually, to the need for the one move rule.

As Mark Lawrenson likes often remarks about the active/reactive offside rule in football: "You're either pregnant or you're not".

[Bagwan]

Article 20.2 of sporting regulations:

"Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted."

It seems like its fine to cut back to regain your line at corner entry but not break the tow or however you want to interpret or apply at one's discretion.

I'm all for hard racing but you only need to time your one move to block to create controversy.

I'm with you , wedge .

It's seems to me that more than ever , there is reason to believe that the "peoples's court" , so to speak , or "internet" is already the most effective way to police this .
Here and countless other forums drone on almost endlessly about all manner of issues , from drivers to stewards .

In today's heavily sponsored era , you instantly gain or lose in stock price , much more than you ever could in the steward's office .