2011 Italian Grand Prix Thread

[steveaki13]

And now this.

[steveaki13]

Possible chance of rain on Sunday

[555-04Q2]

Possible chance of not watching it this weekend.

[ArrowsFA1]

n3TrU4xe_ic

[The Black Knight]

Unfortunately, when I got myself in a good car, I had Sebastian as a teammate. Jenson didn't have that at Brawn; he had Rubens." - Mark Webber

Quote of the weekend so far :D

[ioan]

Qualifying is done and only 8 posts?!

Go Seb!

[Dave B]

How on earth is one supposed to stop Vettel. A mistake on his first flying lap, stuck at the wrong end of a queue of traffic on his second, and he still gets pole.

Simply phenomenal.

[AndyL]

How on earth is one supposed to stop Vettel. A mistake on his first flying lap, stuck at the wrong end of a queue of traffic on his second, and he still gets pole.

Simply phenomenal.

And by half a second. Mind-boggling.

[ioan]

And by half a second. Mind-boggling.

7 tenths over his team mate.

[ioan]

Lewis is in a good position and I hope he can start well. At least Massa isn't close this year and if he has to brake some suspension in the first corner, lets hope its Vettel's lol. :)

Classy hopes! LOL

[ioan]

Imagine if I was joking?

That would be a quantum leap.

[donKey jote]

can't be that hard to jump a nanometer.

[jens]

I see that this year's RBR is more consistent than last year's, being capable of being at the top on every circuit. I certainly didn't expect Red Bull to be that strong at Monza (netting pole by 0,5 secs), but there you go. :) Also Renault performed well, so maybe they have managed to overcome engine deficiency, which seemed to hinder Renault-powered teams last year?

[ioan]

can't be that hard to jump a nanometer.

;)

[Mia 01]

Congrat Seb! You did it again. But, please be careful at the first corner at the start tomorrow.

[ioan]

Congrat Seb! You did it again. But, please be careful at the first corner at the start tomorrow.

Don't worry, Seb has the least to lose from all top drivers in the case of a first corner incident.

[Robinho]

it appears Seb may have taken a different route to Webber and the others on gear ratios, which netted him pole, similar to Jenson going different on wing levels last year and nearly winning it. It seems that if Seb can break at the front early he will be looking good. If the pack keep with him into the DRS period he could be in trouble as they have more revs for the straights. It could even be the case where the chasers have to help each other early on to keep Seb in sight. either way Vettel is going to have to be perfect and on the limit through the rest of the lap for the first few tours

[ioan]

it appears Seb may have taken a different route to Webber and the others on gear ratios, which netted him pole, similar to Jenson going different on wing levels last year and nearly winning it. It seems that if Seb can break at the front early he will be looking good. If the pack keep with him into the DRS period he could be in trouble as they have more revs for the straights. It could even be the case where the chasers have to help each other early on to keep Seb in sight. either way Vettel is going to have to be perfect and on the limit through the rest of the lap for the first few tours

The bold part is funny cause I can hardly imagine Lewis letting Alonso by knowing he might never get the chance to get back ahead.

If Vettel is first through the first chicane he has to build up over 1 second advantage in 2 laps and we all know he can do that easily.
If he isn't first after that chicane he will have to go for an alternative strategy, anyway he has the advantage of the pole as well as the best pace.

[steveaki13]

Once again a mighty pole from Seb what a driver this guy is.

From a race point of view I hope Lewis, Jenson or Fernando or even a flying anyone can get ahead into the first lap as I see Vettel just creeping away in front if not, he is just so fast.

[gloomyDAY]

I'm quite surprised that Vettel got the pole on this specific circuit.

What I find more surprising is that Webber is .7 of a second off of Vettel's quali time.

[Robinho]

The bold part is funny cause I can hardly imagine Lewis letting Alonso by knowing he might never get the chance to get back ahead.

If Vettel is first through the first chicane he has to build up over 1 second advantage in 2 laps and we all know he can do that easily.
If he isn't first after that chicane he will have to go for an alternative strategy, anyway he has the advantage of the pole as well as the best pace.

its unlikely, but at least with the 2 McLarens togther behind Seb they may be able to help each other along. They both have a straight line speed advantage on Seb and will gain more from a slipstream from Seb also, so the 1 sec might be a tough ask, but it could well be done. I think it will be a very interesting race, especially the 1st few laps

[ioan]

I'm quite surprised that Vettel got the pole on this specific circuit.

What I find more surprising is that Webber is .7 of a second off of Vettel's quali time.

Surprise, he's got the race win too now! :D

Great race by Vettel, he needed to get ahead after the start and he did it with a huge move around the outside of Alonso, with 2 wheels on the grass! Now that's what racing is about!

[Dave B]

Surprise, he's got the race win too now! :D

Great race by Vettel, he needed to get ahead after the start and he did it with a huge move around the outside of Alonso, with 2 wheels on the grass! Now that's what racing is about!

Quite. I've been clear that I don't support Vettel but it's impossible not to be in awe of his driving. Alonso made a perfect start and Vettel had his hands full defending from Hamilton, but once he put a firm (but completely fair) move on the Ferrari Sebastian never looked in danger of finishing anywhere other than first.

[ioan]

Quite. I've been clear that I don't support Vettel but it's impossible not to be in awe of his driving. Alonso made a perfect start and Vettel had his hands full defending from Hamilton, but once he put a firm (but completely fair) move on the Ferrari Sebastian never looked in danger of finishing anywhere other than first.

To be honest Hamilton was never a threat to Seb, cause he missed the moment when the SC came in and MS overtook him straight away.

[ioan]

its unlikely, but at least with the 2 McLarens togther behind Seb they may be able to help each other along. They both have a straight line speed advantage on Seb and will gain more from a slipstream from Seb also, so the 1 sec might be a tough ask, but it could well be done. I think it will be a very interesting race, especially the 1st few laps

Looks like Button wasn't willing to play that game with Lewis either, and he was right as he is on course to beat him over the season.

[spudrsca]

The stewards were too cool for Michael Schumacher.
He was moving everywhere and unlike Alonso when Button passed him inside after the first chicane, he was putting Lewis on the grass.

[Mia 01]

Congrats Seb, Jenson and Fernando!

What an exciting race, the overtake seb did on Fernando made me shiver. OHH, the overtakes Jenson did on Lewis and MS was also very good.

[ioan]

The stewards were too cool for Michael Schumacher.
He was moving everywhere and unlike Alonso when Button passed him inside after the first chicane, he was putting Lewis on the grass.

And Alonso didn't put Vettel on the grass? Just saying.

[ioan]

It wasn't done in quite the same way though. Firstly it wasn't on a corner and was on a straight approaching a corner and Alonso didn't chop across Vettel. Secondly it didn't force Vettel wide and lose traction that allowed his teammate to overtake either. You were very vocal about Kubica during 2008 about him forcing others onto the grass. I can provide quotes if you like? lol

It was exactly the same thing, one driver tries on the outside and the other pushes him wide.
Didn't Hamy himself push Webber wide in Monza GP in the wet race in the same place where MS did it to him today? I guess it's a case of pot and kettle.

[ioan]

Lewis was on the inside when Michael closed the gap? Lewis was in the worng then. I'm man enough to admit Lewis isn't perfect mate. I have no reputation to uphold.

Good, let's stop here then.

[spudrsca]

And Alonso didn't put Vettel on the grass? Just saying.

I've missed the beginning of the race.
But I found that Michael's weaving was way too much on all the intermediate straights of the lap.
Lewis was often right at the back of Michael's car after a turn, Michael would block him by moving twice and three times on the straight whenever Lewis was going in a direction.

Ross Brawn had to tell Michael to not move that much and at least leave a car length of space as he was closing the space way too much and forced Lewis to back off if he wouldn't want to go outside the track to pass him.

Lewis has a reputation of being agressive in his passing but when he defends his position, he is way less agressive and quite fair.

[ioan]

For Lewis 'the whinny' fans:

Lewis Hamilton Vs Petrov - Malaysia 2010 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDfkz0J74Qg)

I'll deliver the crow when you're ready. :p

[ioan]

Lewis was 50 yards infront of Petrov during that footage, but I can see how you made the connection with Michael turning across Lewis when Lewis is right up the inside lol. Classic.


**You might have been sarcastic, I'll wait for confirmation**

What was that,like 4 moves left and right?! And how did you measure the 50 yards?
Epic fail. LOL

[ioan]

BBC Sport - Michael Schumacher forces Lewis Hamilton off track (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14872911.stm)

Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.

What about leaving this now that we know that Lewis is far from being a saint? It's a useless exercise IMO.

[ioan]

Its unusual for you to roll over and accept defeat ioan. :p

value of my time vs value of your opinion

Time wins hands down.

[The Black Knight]

A pretty monotone Italian GP. A few good overtakes but as GP's go it wasn't brilliant. This is partly due to Hamilton appearing to be off his game. This could be partly due to the continual criticism he is receving from all angles. Hopefully he will bounce back and become the driver he was last and previous years again. It was only the Nurburgring that he had a pretty much perfect weekend so we know that he can do it.

RBR seem to have taken a big step forward in performance again in the last two races. It's a shame because it now means Seb will be champion within the month. A second in the next two races will do it. He deserves the WDC of course but it's a shame to see it wrapped up so quickly.

Moreover the FIA once again proved again today that they have severe double standards when it comes to certain drivers. Looking at some of the moves Schumacher did today on Hamilton versus the move in Malaysia for which Hamilton got a reprimand against Alonso and not a word on what Schuey did today, it really sticks out like a sore thumb that there is extreme inconsistency in the stewards room with regards to the application of the rules.

[ioan]

Moreover the FIA once again proved again today that they have severe double standards when it comes to certain drivers. Looking at some of the moves Schumacher did today on Hamilton versus the move in Malaysia for which Hamilton got a reprimand against Alonso and not a word on what Schuey did today, it really sticks out like a sore thumb that there is extreme inconsistency present.

Have fun:
Lewis Hamilton Vs Petrov - Malaysia 2010 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDfkz0J74Qg)

[The Black Knight]

Have fun:
Lewis Hamilton Vs Petrov - Malaysia 2010 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDfkz0J74Qg)

You do realise picked an incident a year earlier to the one I was referring, don't you?

[jens]

Very disappointed about Sauber and Pérez, who was having one of his best races of his short F1 career so far. Sauber is doing its best to throw away P6 in WCC and it looks like they may drop down to as low as 8th. :(

Alguersuari achieved the best result of his short F1 career so far and considering he started 6th in Belgium before facing unluck, to me he gradually seems to be emerging as the prime contender to keep the STR drive for 2012, if any of current drivers gets retained. Spanish CEPSA money helps the case too.

In recent races Schumacher has been in better form in dry than I have ever seen him being after his comeback to F1. Looks like hard work is starting to pay off and after long period of waiting he actually seems to be coming good. Should be an interesting battle with Rosberg in the flyaway races to clarify, who will come out on top.

Surprising that Red Bull has managed to achieve one of the most dominant showings of 2011 at Monza, the track they used to struggle previously. In recent races Vettel has managed some good overtaking too in needed situations, so he is improving in that department.

Was surprised that Maldonado was as high as 6th early in the race and managed to stay there for some time, but later the tyres probably went off quicker than on other cars (as usual), so in the end he still dropped to where we usually have found Williams this season.

[F1boat]

Awesome race. The battle between Michael and Lewis was terrific, Jenson drove very, very well, Alonso did a great start and I am very happy for Bruno. But Vettel is the man of the day - drove like a deity. It was touching to see him crying at the podium.

[ioan]

You do realise picked an incident a year earlier to the one I was referring, don't you?

So because it's from last year it didn't happen or what?

[The Black Knight]

So because it's from last year it didn't happen or what?

What's the point of your post exactly?

[steveaki13]

It wasn't done in quite the same way though. Firstly it wasn't on a corner and was on a straight approaching a corner and Alonso didn't chop across Vettel. Secondly it didn't force Vettel wide and lose traction that allowed his teammate to overtake either. You were very vocal about Kubica during 2008 about him forcing others onto the grass. I can provide quotes if you like? lol

The Vettel passed Alonso it was around the outside of the same curve (not really corner) that Schumi closed of Hammy on the inside. So it was quite similar.

Alonso left about 3/4 of a car width on the outside and being on the outside, Seb decided to take the risk and edge past on the grass. While Schumi left about the same on the inside and Lewis was in a position that he could take the risk. Very similar to me.

Beside I am not sure at that point Michael would be looking in his mirrors going around that curve on what was the normal line there, and all passes in that curve into the 2nd chicane always happen on the outside, so on that occasion I feel Lewis should have looked outside or stayed behind until the chicane braking zone.

To risk going up the inside in the first place there made me winse and I feel it was wrong decision from Lewis (similar to going around Button in Canada on the walled side) rather than anything Michael did.

Overview:
Every car takes that line around that curve on normal laps and drivers I wouldn't have thought would be looking in mirrors there so on that occasion the overtaker should judge the outside the best option to make inside for the chicane.

[steveaki13]

A pretty monotone Italian GP. A few good overtakes but as GP's go it wasn't brilliant. This is partly due to Hamilton appearing to be off his game. This could be partly due to the continual criticism he is receving from all angles. Hopefully he will bounce back and become the driver he was last and previous years again. It was only the Nurburgring that he had a pretty much perfect weekend so we know that he can do it.

RBR seem to have taken a big step forward in performance again in the last two races. It's a shame because it now means Seb will be champion within the month. A second in the next two races will do it. He deserves the WDC of course but it's a shame to see it wrapped up so quickly.

Moreover the FIA once again proved again today that they have severe double standards when it comes to certain drivers. Looking at some of the moves Schumacher did today on Hamilton versus the move in Malaysia for which Hamilton got a reprimand against Alonso and not a word on what Schuey did today, it really sticks out like a sore thumb that there is extreme inconsistency in the stewards room with regards to the application of the rules.

Have to say I don't agree at all.

This was one of my favourite races all season.

Just because cars weren't breezing past others all race through DRS doesn't make it dull. I would much rather a battle last 20 laps like the one today than 4 battles last 1/2 a lap each and then end in nothing as the car behind is a ridiculous amount faster.

The battle between Schumi and Hammy was epic. Both drivers driving hard and fair, Schumi's moves I felt were right on the edge of the execptable limits, but as long as they were on the edge and not over it they were fine.


I thought Vettel's move on Alonso was brave and quality and his drive was perfect.

Button started slowly but again showed pace and passing ability to finish a fine second.

The battle for 7th to 10th was always on edge and changing too.

All in all a great race for me.

[i_max2k2]

I dont understand why people are criticizing the battle between ms and lewis so much, when he was on the inside line and shoved off to the grass, his car should be atleast a little bit further ahead then half the car length which it never was and it was Schumi's line all the way. Apart from that how will you overtake there, when your on the outside for the next corner, that would have been Schumi logical defending line anyway. As for the 2 moves on Ascari, how would you over take from the outside when that corner and the next one defending line would both be the inside line, in the post race interview Lewis has not complained, neither has Martin Whitmarsh, Ross or anyone, it was clean racing, the fact that it was not even referred perhaps simply meant it was clean racing and may be Lewis's frustration showed up during that radio conversation.

[ioan]

Have to say I don't agree at all.

This was one of my favourite races all season.

Just because cars weren't breezing past others all race through DRS doesn't make it dull. I would much rather a battle last 20 laps like the one today than 4 battles last 1/2 a lap each and then end in nothing as the car behind is a ridiculous amount faster.

The battle between Schumi and Hammy was epic. Both drivers driving hard and fair, Schumi's moves I felt were right on the edge of the execptable limits, but as long as they were on the edge and not over it they were fine.


I thought Vettel's move on Alonso was brave and quality and his drive was perfect.

Button started slowly but again showed pace and passing ability to finish a fine second.

The battle for 7th to 10th was always on edge and changing too.

All in all a great race for me.

That sums it up very well! :up:

[markabilly]

Got to say that this is the first time that I have seen a driver intimidate Hamilton, over and over again.............................

[ioan]

Got to say that this is the first time that I have seen a driver intimidate Hamilton, over and over again.............................

You can be sure that if Mercedes finally produce a good car next season Hamy will have even more nightmares than he is having right now.
Lewis' big overtaking has always been relying into intimidating the competition with his well know over aggressive and bonehead moves, today he just ran into a very hard racer who saw it all before and wouldn't feel bothered at all and this was another hit to his already shady self esteem.

[Cooper_S]

LOL... I haven't seen such Schumacher bashing by the Brits in years... The lad did good today...

Anyhoo... back on topic, great race really as Monza shows why it deserves it's place on the calander...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Schumacher versus Hamilton was the best battle for a position we have seen all year. The Mercs low downforce set-up neutered the Hamitlons DRS which gave MS a chance to stay ahead.

I loved it! :up:

[steveaki13]

Schumacher versus Hamilton was the best battle for a position we have seen all year. The Mercs low downforce set-up neutered the Hamitlons DRS which gave MS a chance to stay ahead.

I loved it! :up:

Yep this is the sort of enjoyment F1 should provide.

[The Black Knight]

Have to say I don't agree at all.

This was one of my favourite races all season.

Just because cars weren't breezing past others all race through DRS doesn't make it dull. I would much rather a battle last 20 laps like the one today than 4 battles last 1/2 a lap each and then end in nothing as the car behind is a ridiculous amount faster.

The battle between Schumi and Hammy was epic. Both drivers driving hard and fair, Schumi's moves I felt were right on the edge of the execptable limits, but as long as they were on the edge and not over it they were fine.


I thought Vettel's move on Alonso was brave and quality and his drive was perfect.

Button started slowly but again showed pace and passing ability to finish a fine second.

The battle for 7th to 10th was always on edge and changing too.

All in all a great race for me.

All very exciting for sure but for me the result was all too predictable. It was always obvious that Hamilton would get past Schumacher in the end. It was amazing driving from Schumacher and among the best since his return but all in all I found the result predictable. Once Seb got past Alonso, you always knew that it was his victory. Button was always going to get past Alonso and it was unlikely that Hamilton was going to be able to pass Alonso on the last lap. I see why people loved it but I found it predictable and, for me, that just took from the spectacle.

That is not to say there weren't some great drives, there were, but overall this race just didn't have me at the edge of my seat really. It is great to see Schuey regain some of his old form though but the Stewards from race to race are too inconsistent again. There was one incident in particular where Schumacher clearly moved twice. Hamilton and others have been penalised for far less in the past.

[AndyL]

Have to say I don't agree at all.

This was one of my favourite races all season.

Just because cars weren't breezing past others all race through DRS doesn't make it dull. I would much rather a battle last 20 laps like the one today than 4 battles last 1/2 a lap each and then end in nothing as the car behind is a ridiculous amount faster.

The battle between Schumi and Hammy was epic. Both drivers driving hard and fair, Schumi's moves I felt were right on the edge of the execptable limits, but as long as they were on the edge and not over it they were fine.


I thought Vettel's move on Alonso was brave and quality and his drive was perfect.

Button started slowly but again showed pace and passing ability to finish a fine second.

The battle for 7th to 10th was always on edge and changing too.

All in all a great race for me.

Spot on, it was a very enjoyable race for me. Action all the way through. Even in the last few laps with Hamilton chasing down Alonso.

[555-04Q2]

Great race for me :up: Lots of wheel to wheel action and a few crashes to spice it up too...

[kfzmeister]

Spot on, it was a very enjoyable race for me. Action all the way through. Even in the last few laps with Hamilton chasing down Alonso.

That must have absolutely been the icing of Lewis' cake that day. So close, yet still missed out on a podium. :(

[SGWilko]

Didin't Massa provide a tow for Alonso or Vice Versa?

Someone should have complained, and had an appropriate grid penalty for blocking a la 2006...... :laugh: