Inaugural Baltimore Grand Prix

[DanicaFan]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorelogo2.jpg

Race 15 of 18

Race - Inaugural Baltimore Grand Prix

Location - Streets of Baltimore, Maryland

Date - Sunday, September 4th

Time & TV Schedule - Pre-Race Show-Sunday, September 4th -2:00PM Eastern - Green Flag - 2:45PM Eastern - Versus

Course Type - 2.4 Mile Street Course

Distance - 75 Laps / 180 Miles

Practice Sessions -
Friday, September 2nd - 12:05PM -1:20PM Eastern & 4:10-5:10PM Eastern
Saturday, September 3rd -9:05AM -10:05AM Eastern
Sunday, September 4th -Warm Up Session - 8:35AM -9:05AM Eastern

Qualifications - Saturday, September 3rd - 12:10PM -1:20PM Eastern

[DanicaFan]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimoregrandprix.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

So here's the overs-unders bet for Baltimore..

Will there be be more passes for position on the track or driver penalties ?

[00steven]

I think the layout looks awesome!

[SarahFan]

I think the layout looks awesome!

Really?.... Where do yOu expect the passing zone to be?


Turn one will be a mess on restarts...

[SoCalPVguy]

Really?.... Where do you expect the passing zone to be? Turn one will be a mess on restarts...

Agreed. Passing zones turns 1 and 3 if at all.

[FIAT1]

layout is not a problem and passing will be ok as long self appointed king in the race control let people do the passing and let them race.

[nigelred5]

Ill be there all three days. With the ALMS race not finishing until almost 7:00, Saturday is going to be one long day! Can't wait to see the coverage when I get home. I cannot believe they have the ALMS tape delayed broadcast on at the same time as the Live Race broadcast of the Indycar race. So much for cooperation between the series.

Pratt street is pretty wide and the walls are up on the curbs instead of taking almost two lanes out of the street but I can see a Toronto-esque pile up zone at turn 1. I hope we don't have TC's passing zone line down there. The only part of the track I'm really not so sure about is the run up the hill on Conway street towards Camden Yards and the configuration of the pit entrance and turn onto pit straight. I hope to swing by there today or tomorrow after work and see how pit lane is shaping up. I think that's going to be a pretty tight pit lane and a really long overall pit time. They have a final map of the course on the website today with the final locations of the spectator fences and access points.


So who else is going? I know Starter will be there. Pratt Street Ale House for a cold one??

[00steven]

It will be a challenging circuit is why it will be awesome. Watching guys push it to the limit is what racing is all about.

[Anubis]

Might be missing something here, but start/finish and pit lane not in the same place? Are they doing a Mid-Ohio sort of starting arrangement? Looks rather odd to me. Hope we get a decent race free of Toronto levels of driving stupidity and where race control don't do something contentious. Not holding my breath on that one.

[nigelred5]

Might be missing something here, but start/finish and pit lane not in the same place? Are they doing a Mid-Ohio sort of starting arrangement? Looks rather odd to me. Hope we get a decent race free of Toronto levels of driving stupidity and where race control don't do something contentious. Not holding my breath on that one.

No start finish is on Pratt street right in front of the Convention Center. The pits are in the parking lot along the B&O Wharehouse after turn 6. I don't recall seeing any mention of the finish being on the Pit Straight but it always makes sense to let the teams see the finish, its just not a good location.

[harvick#1]

Really?.... Where do yOu expect the passing zone to be?


might vary from driver to driver. Danica gonna say zero while Sato and Viso say turns 1, 3, 5, 8, and 12 :laugh:

[DanicaFan]

Entry List..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimoreentry.jpg

[heliocastroneves#3]

might vary from driver to driver. Danica gonna say zero while Sato and Viso say turns 1, 3, 5, 8, and 12 :laugh:

I thought it, you said it! :laugh:

[DanicaFan]

xbDXDT7Ykzg&feature=feedu

[00steven]

Like I said, it looks like an awesome circuit! I think it has some similarities to Toronto.

[DanicaFan]

Pit Lane Assignments..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorepits.jpg

[Chris R]

Really?.... Where do yOu expect the passing zone to be?


Turn one will be a mess on restarts...

I think (depending on how they put up the barriers) there could be lots of space in turn 1 - that is a really wide piece of road like 5 lanes or something like that - if the boys and girls play smart this could be a great track - if they play it like knuckleheads it could be nasty...... which means it is a coin toss.....

[harvick#1]

watching the virtual lap, turns 5,6,7 might be a nightmare and alot of crashing

[chuck34]

Pit Lane Assignments..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorepits.jpg

I don't think I've ever seen a pit lane that has stalls on either side. How's that gonna work? Seems pretty odd to me.

[nigelred5]

watching the virtual lap, turns 5,6,7 might be a nightmare and alot of crashing

That area was still WIDE open as of 6:00 am this am, so who the heck knows what is actually going to be there when the walls and cones go up tomorrow.
Personally, I think they should have pit entrance straight off of turn 5 but it looks like they are trying to have a better angle at the parking lot since there is a u-turn involved in the pit lane. It's going to be interesting... finding room for a Pit lane was a hard task. At least it's not still over on Russell street in the oriole park access road where the S/F line was in the original course layout. Unfortunately, there simply is no room for any sort of grandstands along pit lane because of the active MARC RR station, however I was suprized there doesn't look to be any viewing area along the station platform area parallel to pit lane. They have found a way to have a good number of High Roller suites and viewing areas on the convention center and in front of the old train station.

[nigelred5]

I think (depending on how they put up the barriers) there could be lots of space in turn 1 - that is a really wide piece of road like 5 lanes or something like that - if the boys and girls play smart this could be a great track - if they play it like knuckleheads it could be nasty...... which means it is a coin toss.....

Pratt street is still a full 4 lanes wide but turn 1 does narrow down to a narrow 4 or a wide 3 1/2 the way the barriers are set, and it is slight bit more than a 90 degree turn. the pit straight wil lbe hte narrowest part of the track. I'm hoping to be able to get a look at pit lane in about 20 minutes!

[nigelred5]

I didn't have time to swing around the pit lane side of the warehouse because of traffic. I'm thinking those two pits on the left side may be just as they cross the RR tracks and right after the u turn since there will be a sorts of no-mans land between the track and pit lane there. hmm, can't see an incident there 8). likely they will be pitting off sequence from the leaders. I'd love to hear the driver's meeting about that!

It's a decent uphill from 4 to 5 so I expect 5-6-7's ( all the way to 8 actually) is going to be single file. I don't like that complex of turns, but conway is pretty long and they had to slow them down for 7 since there was no area for runoff. heres a more detailed map of the track and venue for anyone attending the race.


http://baltimoregrandprix.com/pdf/detailed-map.pdf

[SarahFan]

Here's hoping for a competitive weekend ... With only a few yellows..... a pass or two up front ..... And no mention of barnhardt or race control


The natives are restless and august was brutal

[nigelred5]

Looks like your girl will have a clear launch out of the pit box straight down the left side of pit lane. I'm sure this pit lane is going to generate a lot of comment.

X2 on the lack of BB generated controversy, but I'm not holding my breath. Even when there shouldn't have been sunday, he found a way.

[DanicaFan]

Im not sure Danica has a good pit box here. I would have to see it in action myself.

[NickFalzone]

Im not sure Danica has a good pit box here. I would have to see it in action myself.

Chad, one day all the creepy stalking will pay off and you will get to see Danica's pit box in action. Dreams do come true.

[nigelred5]

Too dark to really see what's been done overnight with the track but they were working on my way in to work this a.m.

She's at Buffalo Wild wings with Mike Conway about ten minutes from work tonight at 6, maybe I'll stop by. Dario's appearing at 4 across town and on my way home so I'll probably stop by there.

[Anubis]

Im not sure Danica has a good pit box here. I would have to see it in action myself.

To be honest, I really don't think it's likely to be the deciding factor in what sort of result she gets.

[dataman1]

Walked track this morning as I could with traffic. Coming together nicely. will be bumpy and rough on tires. Saw Martyn Thakke with Randy Barnard as rail tracks were being covered at 7:30. Town is excited but media finds grumpy people to interview. Great weather today.

[nigelred5]

It's a shame they didn't pave Pratt and Light streets, but hey, with all those grumps and complainers and a real gov't budget issue, I'm just happy as a pig in stink it's finally going down! Suppose to be what, 6" of asphalt going over the tracks? Hopefully we don't see a San Jose esque launching ramp. I think that is clearly on everyone's radar.

They could be building private parking spots for every downtown resident and worker and a 20 lane highway through the inner Harbor for people to drive 20 blocks and there would be people complaining. Everyone that knows down town knows if they drive two blocks north, they can get anywhere they want.

It still amazes me how many people are clueless about what's going on this week and complaining, even people that havent stepped a foot downtown in 5 years..... Beware the NIMBY's, they are strong in these parts. They are smart and will actually stand back, watch something take place, then pounce on every little miniscule issue. I deal with that every year with our 4th of july celebration. 99 % of the things that happen in town this weekend will have nothing to do with the race, but 100% of them will be blamed on it. ;)

Heading out the door from work!

[Hoop-98]

Hope everyone has a great time, and be patient. I have Dallas F1, Houston twice, San Jose,and Las Vegas inaugural races behind me and each had many challenges to overcome.
It seems to take a few years for a Street Race to mature, unfortunately lately that's all they last in many cases. Good luck and good racing to all.

rh

[nigelred5]

So I stopped at the meet and greet with Dario at the T Mobile store and had the opportunity to talk to him about the track. He said they were still putting it togethere and Dario mentioned they were baving over the light rail tracks, but only paving the area by turn 7 where the track crosses the light rail tracks but not on the main strait??????? Apparently that is what the chicane is for that shows up on the main straight in some of the maps. He said they were just going to slow them down. DAMD, I guess they didn't learn anythign in San Jose. I hope they are doing SOMETHING!!! Man that was disappointing to hear! He also apparently got to experience Baltimore Rush hour first hand and was almost 1.5 hours late! :)

I think I also made the poor guy blush! I asked him to write something for my wife on his autograph card and he giggles and said "Oh nooo, I con't wrrite thaat!!" We both laughed and It wasn't even x rated!!

[dataman1]

Through the day got a chance to talk to several local folks. Many thanked the Grand Prix for getting long needed street improvements. During my walk I saw many concrete patches, not asphalt. I wonder how well the asphalt section at pit out over the ligth rail will hold up. ALMS and Indycar have tons of torque on those rear wheels. The harbor area was alive tonight. Lots of foot traffic by locals trying to get a peek at the track.

[nigelred5]

Pratt and light streets have always been concrete. Conway was HORRIBLE before they re-paved it and Russel street wasn't much better. They also did a lot of grinding to the crown of Pratt street. Glad to hear some appreciate that they have new streets. The area of 5-6-7 had a pretty large traffic island taken out totally and the turn lane that was there was horribly rutted up, as was conway down by the Sheraton entrance. This time of year ,the Harbor usually is hoppin at night. I'm hoping to maybe either stay down there Saturday night or get back down there with my wife for a while since I'm only a half hour and I have friends in Fed Hill.

The light rail tracks are at Pit IN, but there is a turn right there so they will be putting a lot of lateral load on the street there. The pit straight and everthing after that was paved quite a while ago now. It should be just the area where you enter the warehouse parking lot. Hopefully they have a $#itload of the synthetic binders in the mix. If the crossings were like the ones at the end of my street I wouldn't be the least bit worried, but I know those crossings on Pratt street well, and crossing two sets of tracks is going to be one hell of a jolt. I guess they are actually pretty close to where they are building that chicane on the main strait.

Looks like it's going to be HOT! on Saturday and Sunday!

[SarahFan]

F2000 was supposed to be on track 45 minutes ago... Scuttlebutt is s he ups has been pushed back 1-4 hours


Major concerns about bumbs and new ashphalt curing

[anthonyvop]

The Scuttlebutt is right.


INDYCAR: Baltimore Start Delayed Four Hours
"I don't expect us to get started until 12 p.m. (ET)," INDYCAR VP of Competition Brian Barnhart tells SPEED.com after assessing the incomplete street circuit.

AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Baltimore Start Delayed Four Hours (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-baltimore-start-delayed-four-hours/)


Seems that there are railroad tracks to deal with and they decided at that last min. to add a chicane to slow the cars down before they cross it.......They didn't see that before?

[uncommonsense52]

The Scuttlebutt is right.



AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Baltimore Start Delayed Four Hours (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-baltimore-start-delayed-four-hours/)


Seems that there are railroad tracks to deal with and they decided at that last min. to add a chicane to slow the cars down before they cross it.......They didn't see that before?

The plans for the track layout months ago had the chicane there... it's simply a matter of the daily commuter traffic in Baltimore. I doubt Maryland motorists would be thrilled with a chicane on their way to the office...

[SarahFan]

Chris...I'm not sure... But they may be adding an additional chicanery at the opposite end to slow the cars into 1

[anthonyvop]

Watching on TV all I can say is that if BB doesn't lay down the law in the driver's meeting the first lap will be pure carnage when they pass through that Chicane.

[banshee74]

Observations of Friday practice..... As of about 1:15 they were still putting together sections of the fence between turns 3 & 4. No one on track yet! Finally, after a big forklift convention, they left a few sections unconnected and started practice. Indy cars finally at 4:30 (original noon start). Felt bad for Dixon...came out late and on the first lap into turn 4 went in too deep and kissed the wall. Amazing speed on this course.....some tough corners. Great effort by the city...immense planning and work for a new course. Princess was early off the gas in, and late back into it going through turn 4......explains some of the 3 second gap/lap to the front runners. The Holmatro crew guys are the best in the business...driver medical, traffic control, resolution of the accident, and clean up...one thing Indy car can be real proud of!!!

[NickFalzone]

Saw the Lights practice on IndyCar's youtube. Definitely a fun looking track, and pretty good turnout of fans in the stands.

[nigelred5]

Well, Finally made it home. All day at the track , a brief friday walk through footbal practice and my Daughter's first halftime at the Football game.

Where do I start?

We stuck to our plan, took light rail in. Nice leisurely ride, two blocks to the gate. I thought the crowd was GREAT for a friday crowd! Found out about ten munites into the track that there was a delay. I was told several issues were outstanding due to last weeks hurricane. Several manhole covers didn't get welded down, A couple walls had to be moved to allow the Holmatro Team trucks more room to position themselves properly and they re positioned some of the inside of the turn one wall. Also heard they may try to move it a little more over night. IT was all good. The delays allowed us to actually spend time in the paddocks, checked out the fan village, we all won a couple prizes. Several bands played all day long. Once the track opended up, I thought the crowd was awesome for a Friday crowd. Lots of activities. Sure, there's always the wendy whiners here and there. We had a problem with our seats, the ushers did their best to help and woman at the ticket was awesome helping resolve the issue and get us in new seats. There were a few sight line problems. Some banners were taken down or moved quickly. We walked the course and found several places inside and outside the track for decent GA viewing spots. Luna del Sea on Pratt has a great patio to sit and have a few drinks with my arm on the wall! As usual, the media finds a handful of people to complain out of a crowd of tens of thousands of people. Everyone knows a new event has growing pains, and shutting down these streets is painful. Everyone I talked to was having a great time and realized we had a dang earthquake and just took one on the chin by a pretty nasty Hurricane less than a week ago in this area and most were just happy the race was going on as planned. We still have people with out power around here. I repeatedly heard fans commenting like myself on how long they have waited to see this race happen and didn't care how long they had to wait to see cars on track today they were STOKED to have the race in town.

We talked to a lot of team members about the delays, the common response was Hey, Whatcha gonna do? It's better that they fix the track before we go out than after something happens. The indoor paddock was nice and cool to walk around. Countless team comments about my vintage CART Hat!! A few guys told me it's nice being inside where it's comfortable, but it would be better if they were outside at the pits. It's a trek up out of the paddock up to the pit lane and they have to pull the cars outsde to run the engines. It's still great for fans inside.

The track is pretty bumpy where it's cement on Pratt and Light street. They had no choice but to wait to install the chicane at the last minute because Pratt street is THE main street down town. Some of the walls also couldn't be put in place until last night as the roads were kept open as late as they could. That chicane on the main strait is unfortunate, but they couldn't pave the rails on pratt street and bumps or not, they would have still taken flight as the street dips a good bit there. Turn one is TIGHT, so hold on race fans... BB, save face and ABANDON the TWO WIDE restarts this weekend!!. The rest of the track is basically all new pavement and looked slick.

I saw some whiners over at TF complainig about their cars being stuckin the hotel Garages inside the track for the weekend and were crying because they had to wait a couple hours for the track go hot and were throwing a tantrum and wanted to leave. call the wambulance..... It's FRIDAY!!?!!! They are staying in a hotel INSIDE THE FREAKING TRACK and complaining???? jeesus...! Stay over in Harbor east if you didn't want to be INSIDE the track in a three or 4 star hotel.!

We all had an awesome time today and I expect the crowd to be even larger tomorrow. Time to hit the sack and do it all over again tomorrow morning!

[NickFalzone]

nice lookin track:

6_LYdoWZ27A

[DanicaFan]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorepractice1.jpg

[DanicaFan]

Here are the qualifying groups for tomorrow..

Group 1

#10 Dario Franchitti
#28 Ryan Hunter-Reay
#38 Graham Rahal
#06 James Hinchcliffe
#19 Sebastien Bourdais
#77 Alex Tagliani
#22 Giorgio Pantano
#26 Marco Andretti
#6 Ryan Briscoe
#4 JR Hildebrand
#18 James Jakes
#7 Danica Patrick
#9 Scott Dixon
#67 Ed Carpenter

Group 2

#12 Will Power
#3 Helio Castroneves
#27 Mike Conway
#5 Takuma Sato
#82 Tony Kanaan
#78 Simona De Silvestro
#83 Charlie Kimball
#07 Tomas Scheckter
#34 Sebastian Saavedra
#2 Oriol Servia
#14 Vitor Meira
#59 EJ Viso
#17 Martin Plowman
#24 Ana Beatriz

[heliocastroneves#3]

What a great track it is! :D

[00steven]

What a great track it is! :D

Agreed!

[DanicaFan]

Practice 2 results..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorepractice2.jpg

[DanicaFan]

The 6 moving on from Group 1 are..

#9 Scott Dixon
#6 Ryan Briscoe
#38 Graham Rahal
#19 Sebastien Bourdais
#28 Ryan Hunter-Reay
#10 Dario Franchitti

[DanicaFan]

The 6 moving on from Group 2 are..

#12 Will Power
#27 Mike Conway
#59 EJ Viso
#82 Tony Kanaan
#3 Helio Castroneves
#78 Simona De Silvestro

[DanicaFan]

The Firestone Fast 6 are..

#12 Will Power
#38 Graham Rahal
#19 Sebastien Bourdais
#6 Ryan Briscoe
#10 Dario Franchitti
#28 Ryan Hunter-Reay

[DanicaFan]

Come on Ryan Hunter-Reay...let's do it for Andretti Autosport!

[DanicaFan]

Congratulations to Will Power for his 7th pole position.

[NickFalzone]

The Firestone Fast 6 are..

#12 Will Power
#38 Graham Rahal
#19 Sebastien Bourdais
#6 Ryan Briscoe
#10 Dario Franchitti
#28 Ryan Hunter-Reay

A stout top-6. I don't know why, but it really feels like the merger is complete now with Seabass back in the mix.

[SarahFan]

Rahal and ryan between will and Dario.... That is interesting.....mix in bourdias on Darios heels

[DanicaFan]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/baltimorelineup.jpg

[00steven]

I think we are in for some action.

[jimispeed]

Bourdais is comin' on! But looking at the in car, it looks very difficult to pass.

[heliocastroneves#3]

Can't wait until it's evening (yes, I live in The Netherlands so I watch IndyCar in the evening.)

I love ovals, but I'm starting to fall in love as well with street courses. :D

Of course I like the normal road courses, despite the lack of passing all those beautiful tracks are great to drive I think.


It's gonna be a difficult one to predict who's gonna win it.... I think enough accidents will happen so even Danica P. or Takuma Wallbanger have chances to win it... :s mokin:

[DBell]

TK has a big incident when his brakes failed going into turn 1. There is video of it at the bottom of the article.

Major accidents shorten Baltimore IndyCar warm-up - Racer.com (http://www.racer.com/video-major-accidents-shorten-baltimore-indycar-warm-up/article/211250/)

[SarahFan]

That could have been very ugly

[DBell]

That could have been very ugly

I'll bet that corner worker that was standing there had to change his shorts!

[SarahFan]

TK: hello being there saved my life

[Anubis]

Blimey, that's an escape. Lucky he went to the left of the escape road rather than the right, as he'd have come to a much more abrupt halt. Possibly question the corner working being in quite such an exposed position? Appreciate he was in a run-off area rather than live track, but even so, if a car is in the run-off, it does tend to suggest a problem, so I'd be wary of standing quite so in the open.

[SarahFan]

Willy t Starting 16th in the lights today!!

I had no idea he was racing today..... Nice

[SarahFan]

Nice drive by newgarden..... He deserves a shot in the bigs

[shazbot]

Robin Miller is not exactly Martin Brundle is he!?

[SarahFan]

16 laps in ..... No yellow.... 1/2 the field or son on alternate pit strategy

This is already interesting

[anthonyvop]

I'll bet that corner worker that was standing there had to change his shorts!


That corner worker should be relieved of his duty...WTF was he doing there? Where was his buddy who should have told him not to stand there? Where was race control on the radio screaming for him to get behind the wall? We came really close to a disaster today. I sure hope the SCCA R/E is all over it.

[SarahFan]

I'm calling BS on race control again

TK and a few others passed cars that were stopped on track .... Now they are repositioning the cars.... That's not the way it's been done in the past

[SarahFan]

Hildebrand 2011 indy500 champ

[anthonyvop]

BTW Wasn't that 1st full course yellow freakishly long considering it was just for a stalled car. At least it allows some cars to make it to the end on only one stop..........Hmmmmmm.

[SarahFan]

So is the second Anthony

Rediculous

[anthonyvop]

So far over 29 mins under yellow which had no major contact or injuries? Google FUBAR and it will redirect u to the IndyCar website!

[00steven]

A good race so far except for the long cautions.

[SarahFan]

Jenkins is terrible

[gm99]

Whatever happened to Simona on the last pit-stop? She seemed to have been running really well up to that point...

[SarahFan]

Quality run by Will!!!


Essentially a wire to wire win.... Watching someone that hooked up can be fun to watch

[SarahFan]

Rahal calls BS on the long yellow(s)

Hes right IMO

[NickFalzone]

an OK street race, the series has had better and worse this year. Good to see such a great crowd and perfect weather. They need to get rid of the chicanes and find another passing zone, but otherwise seemed like a reasonable enough layout. Certainly one of the nicest looking races we've had all year. The long yellows were very strange, I agree. I was stepping away to do other things while the yellows were going on and confused why race control didn't get back to green sooner. I assumed it was due to racing order, but for the most part it was an incident free race and yet a good 30-45 mins were under yellow..

[SarahFan]

Who dumped the oil on pitroad?

[NickFalzone]

Who dumped the oil on pitroad?

Barnhart?

[anthonyvop]

Barnhart?

I wouldn't doubt it.

Seriously over a half an hour to restart a few cars and clean up some oil?

[nigelred5]

It was either Andretti or Wilson that. dumped oil from the entrance to turn 4 all the way through to the pit lane. We were hearing that they were very concerned with the oil being on the course through turn 5 since everyone was so concerned with the area.


I just got home. Good lord was it HOT today. IF you weren't in the shade, It was miserably hot! We watched the Lights race from under the trees along the strait along Russel street. Unfortunately, our jumbotron today was just a video leader board. We all had a plast all weekend. I talked to people from all over the country and several other countries. The crowds were amazing all weekend and everyone I talked to can't wait for next year. Talked to Kevin Kalkoven and TK in the paddock this morning about TK's crash. Tony said it was "scary as HELL having zero brakes."


I've been telling people on these boards for years that the Inner Harbor of Baltimore was THE place to hold a street race on the East coast, and I think we proved that this weekend. AS great of an event as this weekend was, imagine how good it can be when they actually have a year experience under their belt!

[Jag_Warrior]

I've been telling people on these boards for years that the Inner Harbor of Baltimore was THE place to hold a street race on the East coast, and I think we proved that this weekend. AS great of an event as this weekend was, imagine how good it can be when they actually have a year experience under their belt!

I missed being there just because I'm pretty familiar with that area. It looked like a good first time effort. With some tweaks and a good passing zone, this could be one of the better circuits going forward. And yeah, it certainly looked like a good turn out. The ALMS race also looked pretty good.

As for the race itself, I think Rahal made a good point after the race. There was no reason (that we could see) to have the caution out that long.

From theory to (now) fact: Chris Kneifel > Brian Barnhart

[vintage]

That yellow was ridiculously long. Basically gave the race to those who had pitted, except Power.

[nigelred5]

Wilson('s CAR)? Pantano? It was hard to hear on the radio.

Well, apparently I have to wait for the re-broadcast. My daughter changed the channel.I had both races recording and she stopped the damn wrong one.... grrrrr.

[Hoop-98]

Marco, oil line.

rh

[Shifter]

If they repave the frontstretch and ditch the chicane they'll have a first class event going forward.

Anyway, I saw a worker I know who was on the corner for the TK crash, I can't wait to talk to him about the blue flagger and the condition of his or her pants. That was crazy...If it were me I'd have been ready to bolt whenever I was on blue flag! FYI Sonoma had a pretty bad station just before the last corner as well.

Perhaps an even closer moment was had by the crew of one of the Holmatro Saftey Trucks. They were driving counter-race when the green flag fell on the Indy race and barely made it into the T1 cutoff! Baltimore Gran Prix Indy Car start - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr05J9nvUhA)

[DBell]

Damn, that was close. Thanks Shifter for that link, I never saw it or heard it mentioned. How could they go green with the safety truck still on the track going backwards? Another shining moment for Barnhardt and race (out of) control.

Great to see a new event that had some atmosphere and a good crowd. Race was decent and Will's laps after the caution to get the gap he needed was fantastic to watch. Hopefully the momentum for this event will continue next year.

[FIAT1]

Great race with skill needed to race there. I don't see how Indycar can take race control anymore. They should have local yellow and let them race ,instead if not for his excellence best racer in Indycar would lose the race. I fill bad for Rahal, but thinking that his team call him in to early to place Dario in 2nd at that time. Great to see superb event.

[00steven]

[quote="Shifter"]If they repave the frontstretch and ditch the chicane they'll have a first class event going forward.QUOTE]

Sounds like you were watching Will Power on Wind Tunnel last night. ;)

[Marbles]

The crowd and track looked awesome. Baltimore certainly looks like a good place to have a race and teaming up with the ALMS certainly doesn't hurt. Absolutely horrible rendition (Barr class) of the American anthem that I just have to mention. A decent race and given the track layout, the drivers showed each other some respect for the most part.

Silly long caution. Another "undo" by Barnhart as the field gets reset once again to his liking and not to what actually happened on the track. I can see a decision like this deciding the championship one day.

Strong performances by Kanaan, Rahal and De Silvestro, pit strategy hurting and helping. And Sato, did anyone see what happened? Viso as well.

[banshee74]

Feel bad for Simona, drove a great race,competitive lap times all day, should have had a clean REAL top five except for Indycar's again ridiculous rules interpretation and make up as you go along race control. How did Princess move from about 25th to something like 12th on the restart???

[heliocastroneves#3]

Sadly Hélio wasn't having the best weekend... But I enjoyed the race very much, what a great track it is! Hope to see next year again such an exciting race.

[DanicaFan]

Feel bad for Simona, drove a great race,competitive lap times all day, should have had a clean REAL top five except for Indycar's again ridiculous rules interpretation and make up as you go along race control. How did Princess move from about 25th to something like 12th on the restart???

Her team gave her a great pit stop!
Dave has that team on top of thier game every race!

[heliocastroneves#3]

Danica finished 6th which will give her a great memory to the road/street courses.. :D

Honestly I think she did a great job.... :)

[Shifter]

If they repave the frontstretch and ditch the chicane they'll have a first class event going forward.QUOTE]

Sounds like you were watching Will Power on Wind Tunnel last night. ;)

Actually I missed that, but really, it's all the place needs and I felt that way from my first look at live pictures.

[00steven]

Actually I missed that, but really, it's all the place needs and I felt that way from my first look at live pictures.

I agree, the chicane needs to go and it will add a great passing zone.

[Marbles]

I agree, the chicane needs to go and it will add a great passing zone.

The chicane is there because of a train track? I'm not sure but I thought I heard something like that. Is this true? It's odd to see a chicane consisting simply of rumble strips. Not that I'd like see some Sequoias in the way but it seems to require an explanation. The ALMS solution to starts was for a double sided restart with cars running side by side previous to the chicane and straddling it as they approached the restart. I'm surprised Indycar didn't do this as it seemed to work.

That other chicane with the tire barrier looks like a tragedy waiting to happen. I'd like to see something done about that.

No dissing intended, that crowd looked like a... crowd. Good to see an Event in Indycar.

[Marbles]

The tracks are for the light rail. They cross the race track in two places. They paved over the ones at turn 5 - 6. I don't know why the same wasn't done on the straight. The dinky chicane on the straight was to slow the cars down some for the tracks. That's the only reason it was there.

Thanks!

[call_me_andrew]

Somebody must have done something right. The race is still one of Yahoo's top searches.

[jimispeed]

Bourdais might have gotten a podium, but I'm not sure his fuel strategy would have been correct! Not the greatest race, but some exciting moments. Simona, and Kanaan is one lucky man, and a great driver! Maybe he'll have a little comeback!

[FIAT1]

I forgot to congratulate G.Rahal on great race and especially not giving in to Dario. Finish does not serve justice for great drive. Go Graham!!!

[heliocastroneves#3]

That's something great from IndyCar as well, no teamorders. :)

[SarahFan]

That's something great from IndyCar as well, no teamorders. :)

I wouldn't be so sure..... Sure seems rahal was called in early....was he not on the same pit strategy as will and Dario?

[SarahFan]

Starter.... Your thoughts on the truck on the front stretch at the start?

No biggie or serious mistake by race control?

[Anubis]

Having that truck on the circuit at the green would appear to be a pretty major cock-up in my view. Doubly so, given it was heading towards the field! Can't understand if it was further round the lap and would be clear by the time the field arrived, but that one was too close for comfort.

[nigelred5]

i was wondering if that second truck was the one that was supposed to be in the cut out in the inside wall right about turn 4 but couldnt find the cut out in time or maybe there was one already there and they panicked.

where's the popcorn smilie? I'm waiting to hear BB's explanation for that one. That could(SHOULD) be the nail in his coffin. Those guys are supposed to be the ultimate professional safety crew. They sure werent' looking like it Sunday. I could almost understand if that had happened friday on an unfamiliar course, but by sunday, that crap just can't happen!

[DBell]

You nailed it Nigelred5, he was supposed to be in the turn 4 area. To me, this still falls on Barnhart. He is supposed to be the guy in control, hence the title Race Control. Here is a quote from the article from Tony Cotman.
“Somebody called in right as we went green that there was a safety truck on the track.”

Then WTF didn't you Bozo's in Race Control IMMEDIATELY call for yellow??? It's like they said, "That's a shame. Hope nothing happens."

Add in, as Starter pointed out, that the other truck was still not set as they went green and you have a potentially lethal situation with both safety trucks as the field went green. And once again, it's amateur hour in an IndyCar race.

A few times I have written RC as Race (out of) Control. No more. I'm ditching the parentheses. It's now officially Race Out Of Control. Or ROOC if you prefer acronyms. The three blind mice have earned it.

AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Rahal Almost Meets His Maker In Baltimore (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-rahal-almost-meets-his-maker-in-baltimore)

[NickFalzone]

This is what Curt Cavin said about it on his blog:

Question: The incident with the safety truck was a near disaster. Do you know to what extent IndyCar is looking into what happened? Having a vehicle going opposite to race direction during green is a violation of every track safety rule, particularly if there were corner workers also at that station as they are to never expect a vehicle coming from that direction. Are we to assume that race control had “no idea” that the trucks were out of position and “nobody” radioed this in as well? (Chris, Marysville, Ohio)




Answer: I’m told the truck went to the pull-off area between turns two and four as it was supposed to, but there already was a truck there. So it headed for the turn one spot, which isn’t that far. I’m told race control didn’t see the truck until it was too late, and Brian Barnhart erupted the way you’d expect him to. Clearly a mistake with the trucks. Fortunate to get away with that one.

[DBell]

Starter, I'm not saying it's BB's fault that the trucks are where they were, that I don't know. But when I saw the quote from Cotman that as the green was dropping that they got information that truck was still on course and they didn't throw the yellow right away, inexcusable.

[00steven]

You nailed it Nigelred5, he was supposed to be in the turn 4 area. To me, this still falls on Barnhart. He is supposed to be the guy in control, hence the title Race Control. Here is a quote from the article from Tony Cotman.
“Somebody called in right as we went green that there was a safety truck on the track.”

Then WTF didn't you Bozo's in Race Control IMMEDIATELY call for yellow??? It's like they said, "That's a shame. Hope nothing happens."

Add in, as Starter pointed out, that the other truck was still not set as they went green and you have a potentially lethal situation with both safety trucks as the field went green. And once again, it's amateur hour in an IndyCar race.

A few times I have written RC as Race (out of) Control. No more. I'm ditching the parentheses. It's now officially Race Out Of Control. Or ROOC if you prefer acronyms. The three blind mice have earned it.

AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Rahal Almost Meets His Maker In Baltimore (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-rahal-almost-meets-his-maker-in-baltimore)

Graham and the rest of the drivers should be pissed. There is no excuse for something like that to happen. It's ashame too, it leaves a mark on an otherwise very successful day. I would think someone will be fired...

[Wilf]

Starter, I'm not saying it's BB's fault that the trucks are where they were, that I don't know. But when I saw the quote from Cotman that as the green was dropping that they got information that truck was still on course and they didn't throw the yellow right away, inexcusable.

The problem we don't know the timing, was it when the green dropped or when it was still waving it. The timeline needs to be looked at.

[Jag_Warrior]

Can't say that I've ever seen anything like this before.
sHuIb2e5Nh0

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am going to say it is yet one more nail in Brian's coffin. Starter can say he would like a full accounting before he hangs Brian, but this is classic stupidity on their part. That truck should have been parked and ready to deploy at its station before the Green went. I am thinking this last minute movement of the trucks while the cars are approaching the start is something that is done to maximize the green flag laps, but in light of the amount of laps run under yellow in this race, one more would have been better than a possible tragedy.

In all in all, Kudo's to Baltimore for one hell of a race with great atmosphere and crowds. I know one chicane needs to be made safer (that tire end cap looks like it will be one hell of an accident some day) and that chicane on the Start Finish straight needs to go period. Other than that, it looked pretty good. Watched the ALMS and Indycars and thought passing was tight but doable...and the course provided greater speeds and challenges than I originally thought, proving once again Tony Cotman does know what he is doing. Too bad his "boss" is still an idiot.

[wedge]

The track has potential.

A couple of chicanes desperately need revising.

I noticed the weekend started badly on Friday and the major turnaround to create a great buzz after the ALMS and Indycar race. The next big test is whether this can be sustained as a sustainable event in years to come.

[nigelred5]

Much of the delays to complete the track on friday were due to the work days lost due to the Hurricane that hit town and hte reality of closing down major city streets. They'll have that worked out next year. I do agree there was a big curiosity element this year, but It's also generated a lot of talk from folks about it around here that I've never heard even mutter a word about racing. First step to becoming a fan. It's also brough a lot of closet open wheel race fans out of the woodwork.

[nigelred5]

Well, they have suspended the Safety truck Driver, but I still say it was neglegent that a yellow wasn't immediately called as soon as it was known a truck was on track. Hell it wasn't EVER called and there were actually TWO trucks out of place when the green was waived.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, they have suspended the Safety truck Driver, but I still say it was neglegent that a yellow wasn't immediately called as soon as it was known a truck was on track. Hell it wasn't EVER called and there were actually TWO trucks out of place when the green was waived.
When I saw this on the crawl on Speed on the weekend, I thought "Brian found his scapegoat". The safety driver going counter race is to me wrong, so I am not saying he isn't in theory in the wrong, but if Brian has been sending safety equipment counter race all season, that is just plain wrong. Spending one more lap under yellow to get all the safety trucks in position safely should be the only way they do it, and THAT is Brian's call. This one is Barnhart's screw up. Again, the buck stops at the top, and this Holmatro safety truck driver is taking one for the boss.....and maybe he deserves punishment, but based on everything else I have seen from the management of the safety trucks this year, I am sure that Brian has thin skin and never admits when he is wrong....

[Lee Roy]

Grand Prix 'struggling' financially, facing suits over unpaid bills - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-grand-prix-suit-20111102,0,7218865,full.story)

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Grand Prix 'struggling' financially, facing suits over unpaid bills - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-grand-prix-suit-20111102,0,7218865,full.story)

Jeez, another complication for the schedule. Will it ever be released?

[SarahFan]

This isn't a surprise..... They were saying right up until the green that without a title sponsor 2012 wasn't in the cards...


Just qualify on Friday in china and run races Saturday and Sunday ..... Bam schedule problem is no problem

[nigelred5]

Agreed, not a suprise or new news. Now the "former ceo" claimaing he wants his $250K "Share", well, for there to be a share, doesn't there have to be some sort of equity to share? That deal always sounded like Go away "you blow hound" money, not an actualy business share.

[ShiftingGears]

Can't say that I've ever seen anything like this before.
sHuIb2e5Nh0

That is just beyond words.

[anthonyvop]

APNewsBreak: Baltimore may end Grand Prix contract if organizers don’t restructure, pay debts

By Associated Press, Published: November 7

BALTIMORE — Officials threatened Monday to terminate the city’s five-year contract with organizers of the Baltimore Grand Prix if the group doesn’t restructure and pay its debts to the city and vendors.

A recent economic analysis showed that the event has potential for growth after its first year, said Kaliope Parthemos, deputy mayor for economic and neighborhood development, in a statement obtained by The Associated Press. But Parthemos said Baltimore Racing Development must restructure itself immediately “to make that a reality.”

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“BRD must also work immediately to pay debts owed to the City and taxes owed to the City and State by December 31, 2011, aggressively work to repay any debts to vendors, and present a restructured company and management team, or the City will terminate its contract with BRD,” Parthemos said in the statement.

BRD organized the three-day Labor Day weekend event and owes the city more than $1.5 million for services it provided, parking, admissions and amusement tax revenues, and a race event fee, she said. The city is asking to be reimbursed for $750,000 in city services. That’s $250,000 more than a fee cap in the contract because it includes required services that BRD was supposed to provide.

The city said the racing group is already speaking to the state Comptroller’s Office, which collects taxes for local jurisdictions, about a payment plan for the $487,971 in taxes owed to the city. No tax abatements will be made, the city said.

The Mayor’s Office of Economic and Neighborhood Development held a $250,000 check for the race event fee it received from BRD on Sept. 4, with the understanding that race officials needed to restructure cash reserves. But the group still has not made the payment.

Read more (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/apnewsbreak-baltimore-may-end-grand-prix-contract-if-organizers-dont-restructure-pay-debts/2011/11/07/gIQAsztgwM_story.html)

[nigelred5]

Jay Davidson apparently has already resigned.

[bugeyedgomer]

perhaps Angstadt should stop using CART/CCWS attendance and financial data when promoting new street races

Baltimore Grand Prix organizers hit with $600,000 tax lien - Baltimore Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/21/baltimore-grand-prix-organizers-hit.html)

[Lee Roy]

perhaps Angstadt should stop using CART/CCWS attendance and financial data when promoting new street races

Baltimore Grand Prix organizers hit with $600,000 tax lien - Baltimore Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/11/21/baltimore-grand-prix-organizers-hit.html)

Maybe Indy Car should learn that they don't have enough fans on the east coast anymore to justify holding a race here.

[SarahFan]

When is Indycar going to relize they just don't have enough fans period

[anthonyvop]

When is Indycar going to relize they just don't have enough fans period

Ouch!

But it is the dilemma. How do you increase your fan base without going to where they are?

You can hold all the IndyCar races in the Mid-West but then you have have a limited, regional series like Sprint Cars.

[Lee Roy]

There were plenty of fans at that race. No title sponsor and failing to understand how long it takes a street race to become profitable was the financial downfall.

Always some excuse.

Dover failed.
Richmond failed.
Nazareth failed.
Watkins Glen failed.
Louden failed.

[nigelred5]

Attendance was not the issue...The people were there. There's obviously shenanigans going on in that group. Davidson has stated there's supposed to be ticket money in escrow... but he stepped down from teh top and well, whom ever is running it won't (and admittedly likely can't) pay the bills.



Chicagoland- failed
Kentucky-failed
Pikes peak- failed
Phoenix-failed
Homestead- failed
Kansas- failed
Fontana-failed
Milwaukee- failed multile times
las Vegas-failed
Anywhere the Hulman clan hasn't dumped buckets of cash supporting the race- Failed


It isn't just the East Coast and no I don't have the answer.

[bugeyedgomer]

no I don't have the answer.I do,,,,,,,,15 races at a track in Marion County Indiana
That's all the majority of the fans care about apparently

[nigelred5]

I do,,,,,,,,15 races at a track in Marion County Indiana
That's all the majority of the fans care about apparently

After one, maybe two a year, they probably won't even care about that.

[nigelred5]

[-7y65t r2=-Aw67Y8IPL; VCX

[DBell]

[-7y65t r2=-Aw67Y8IPL; VCX

Did you just prove Einstein wrong or something, nigelred5? What does that mean?

[nigelred5]

LOL, I have NO Clue what that was. My Droid has a mind of it's own sometimes. It was in my pocket. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened!

.......................................of course it makes about as much sense as some of what has happened in Indycar over the past year or so.

[Jag_Warrior]

[-7y65t r2=-Aw67Y8IPL; VCX

Hey, maybe that's THE answer! :D

[garyshell]

Hey, maybe that's THE answer! :D

It IS the answer, now if we just knew what the damn question was.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

After one, maybe two a year, they probably won't even care about that.

then Indycar could stop pretending to be an oval racing league and become a rectangle racing league

[garyshell]

then Indycar could stop pretending to be an oval racing league and become a rectangle racing league

And you could stop pretending to care about Indycar.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

And you could stop pretending to care about Indycar.

Gary

The George family is trying to take care of that for you

[call_me_andrew]

Hey, maybe that's THE answer! :D

No, THE answer is 42. Maybe that's THE question.

[bugeyedgomer]

and the final tally is -12milliondollars


Grand Prix owes more than $12 million, has less than $100,000 on hand, documents show
Wilkes Lane Capital proposes company takeover



9:33 p.m. EST, December 7, 2011
The beleaguered organizers of the Baltimore Grand Prix are facing more than $12 million in debt and have less than $100,000 in cash on hand, according to internal documents obtained by The Baltimore Sun.

More than $5 million of the debt — including taxes owed to Baltimore and payments to vendors — is past due, the documents show.
I need to make sure the people in Ft. Lauderdale see this

[Lee Roy]

Grand Prix owes more than $12 million, has less than $100,000 on hand - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/auto-racing/baltimore-grand-prix/bs-md-ci-grand-prix-books-20111207,0,4784740.story?page=1)

Who didn't see this coming?

[SarahFan]

They owe 12 mil?

Did they pay anybody?

[bugeyedgomer]

They owe 12 mil?

Did they pay anybody?

the hookers and indycar

[nigelred5]

Sure doesn't sound like it. I wonder how much of that was travelling all over the place to other events, entertaining prospective sponsors, essentially blowing money just trying to land the race from te start. Some of that is expected, and in all likelihood, expenses that should be somewhat one time expenditures. The city wants it to stay, and most of the traffic complaints were related to the road construction, not the actual race preparations. it will be 3 weeks, not 14 months in the future.

Considering one of the original partners is a known drug addict, with a series of involvement with "questionable" financial dealings in the past, who knows how far the partners really got in over their heads before they bought him out. He's also one ofthe plaintiffs suing for money owed. The way I see it. His percentage of a 12 million dollar debt is... drop it and go away....
I don't know anyone that actually expects a start up event to make money, but there obviously was nowhere near enough capital to carry the debt over while paying the crucial bills. The taxes and especially fees to use the facilities can be dealt with since thats chicks counted before eggs hatched IMHO. The cost of paving the streets to me is a non issue. They were already scheduled to be paved, and I'm certain we got a far better paving job than they would have normally and it's done.

I feel for the several small private companies that are now facing bankruptcy because they haven't been paid a dime. Unquestionably, the current management was way over their heads from a businessstandpoint, but they put together a good event. It's looking good that there is a partnership business management lined up to buy into the race that have both strong management skills, financing and a track record of running successful races in St Pete and Toronto.

Sure, I'm biased being a local, but everything I've touted about Baltimore as a race venue for over ten years on these boards was very evident at this years race. Fix a couple track issues( I have a couple track alterations I think would really make a better, faster track), make a few adjustments, and bring in a stronger experienced management group and it will be a strong event for the schedule. The reported investment should allow them to pay the vendors and set up a schedule for payment of the money owed to the state. I'd rater see the city and state work with a new team and get everyone paid than just run it through bankruptcy and see everyone get nothing.

[bugeyedgomer]

Sure doesn't sound like it. I wonder how much of that was travelling all over the place to other events, entertaining prospective sponsors, essentially blowing money just trying to land the race from te start. Some of that is expected, and in all likelihood, expenses that should be somewhat one time expenditures.

and maybe if they had spent a little bit more they would have landed a title sponsor

[nigelred5]

Being a Baltimore based company, I was really suprised Kevin Plank didn't step up with Under Armour to be the title sponsor, but they do already sponsor quite a lot. They were involved at lower levels. Most of the reports throughout the year said they had been working hard to land a title sponsor.

[call_me_andrew]

And the contract is officially cancelled. No more having to talk about it.

[Lousada]

Fool me once...

[DanicaFan]

Im hearing the sound of Taps playing in the background.

[garyshell]

Im hearing the sound of Taps playing in the background.

And we all know how great you are at predicting the outcome of events.

Gary

[downtowndeco]

A couple of years ago when I predicted that no one in the US would ever again try & stage a street race this is the reason why. I'd make the same prediction again (seemingly this should be the final nail in the coffin of trying to get these types of events to work) but I'm sure some bright eyed fool coming along with a pocket full of money & not much sense.

[Chris R]

It would appear the DanicaFan is more than likely correct on this one. The first promoters owe a lot of people a lot of money. They either took the money and ran or failed miserably to monetize the event - either way it makes it nearly impossible for someone to come in and take over - nobody is going to trust the next race promoter and if, by chance the last race was actually "well run", then there is no money to be made.... i hope it survives - but I am not holding out hope.....

To those who doubt that i only ask two questions: 1. If you were Baltimore (the city), would you let another race promoter come in without paying a whole bunch up front? 2. If you were a race promoter would you invest your money in this race?

[Lee Roy]

1. They did get an economic impact out of the race (yes, debatable how much, but it was definitely in the multimillions.) and no city can sneeze at that these days.


Then I'm sure that the local businesses will be clamoring for there to be another race this year.

[SarahFan]

Taking into account recent attendance why would anyone want to promote an oval?

Honest question


A couple of years ago when I predicted that no one in the US would ever again try & stage a street race this is the reason why. I'd make the same prediction again (seemingly this should be the final nail in the coffin of trying to get these types of events to work) but I'm sure some bright eyed fool coming along with a pocket full of money & not much sense.

[downtowndeco]

The F1 race in Dallas? I don't know that I would point to that as an example, as it seems just about dead out of the water before the first race.


Guess you haven't been following the second GP in the USA news eh?
;)

[Chris R]

The F1 race in Dallas? I don't know that I would point to that as an example, as it seems just about dead out of the water before the first race.

That would be a proper road course (if it ever makes it) I think he is referring to the street race in New Jersey for 2013 - that actually sounds pretty solid - although I am hard pressed to see how either race will pay.....

[nigelred5]

The state has already frozen the personal assets of most of the BRD folks and they can probably say buh-bye to their homes and such. They'll get their state taxes. The state loans aren't small. More than one of the parties suing the organizers were actually family members and/or former partners. I suspect their "share" will be at the botom of the list and have a large "-" in front of their share. The contractors that built the course and provided services will unfortunatley be in line, but they should be top of the line. City services and the fee for using the stadium and Convention center can/could easily be waived to make things happen considering employeed have been paid already and considered a city contribution.
I still firmly beleve much of the money was squandered/ spent in the year leading up to the race by a team way over it's head trying to making things happen. The big IF is can they find a well capitalized promoter, sign a new deal with Indycar and get back to it full tilt in about 60 days? I'll take the same approach I did last year, remain optomistic and wait to buy my tickets until I see walls going up.

[Lee Roy]

The F1 race in Dallas? I don't know that I would point to that as an example, as it seems just about dead out of the water before the first race.

Actually, it's in Austin, not Dallas; and the money has already been paid to Ecclestone.

[nigelred5]

It had already been paid by Bahrain as well, but i didn't see a race this year, even after postponements. Paying Bernie only guarantees you have less money today than you did yesterday. just sayin ;)

[Lee Roy]

It had already been paid by Bahrain as well, but i didn't see a race this year, even after postponements. Paying Bernie only guarantees you have less money today than you did yesterday. just sayin ;)

Weel, I guess if violent and deadly protests against the government breaks out in Austin like it did in Bahrain and the F1 community doesn't feel safe in traveling there, that could be an impediment.

[SarahFan]

Taking into account recent attendance why would anyone want to promote an oval?

Honest question

Crickets

???

[anthonyvop]

I heard that vendors are owed over $12 million and that the city is owed $1.5 Million.

Who would want to step up and take on that mess? Vendors will be leery to invest and the media/public will force the City of Baltimore to hover over a new promoter like a vulture.

[anthonyvop]

The city's contract with BRD is terminated. Any new promoter, should anyone care to step up, has no obligation for the debts run up by BRD. Essentially they would get to start with a clean slate. And run up their own debts. :p

Clean slate? Yea....Sure.....!



Hi there. I am the new promoter of the Baltimore race. What? The last guys still owe you $1000's? Yes, we are going to put on the same event but you can trust us! We plan to make enough money to pay you. Forget that the very same event lost tons of money and couldn't pay their bills. Trust me!!!

[Lee Roy]

Hi there. I am the new promoter of the Baltimore race. What? The last guys still owe you $1000's? Yes, we are going to put on the same event but you can trust us! We plan to make enough money to pay you. Forget that the very same event lost tons of money and couldn't pay their bills. Trust me!!!

You forgot . . .


And just think of all the good things that will be said about you in the press, and the citizens of Baltimore will just love you.

[anthonyvop]

You forgot . . .


And just think of all the good things that will be said about you in the press, and the citizens of Baltimore will just love you.



Oh That is right. What is being out all that time and money when you might get a mention by the press?

We aren't talking sponsors here but Vendors. Big Difference.

[nigelred5]

The mayor is still very much behind this event, but right now, there is no event. I listened to Stephanie speak about the race yesterday and she clearly wants to find a new, experienced (and properly financed) promoter. Not one that borrows well over a million dollars to pay the sanctioning fees at loan shark-payday level short term loan rates, and then quietly pays that loan off knowing well that it sucks the bank account totally dry leaving them unable to pay even the smallest vendors. she specifically mentioned the IRL leaving it on the calender because the league, the drivers, the fans and the City all want it to happen again, but She acknowledged the urgency in finding a group or the event is unlikely to happen this september.

[Lee Roy]

Official: Grand Prix proposals due this weekend - WTOP.com (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2623453)


BALTIMORE - A Baltimore city official says parties interested in submitting a proposal to become organizers of the Baltimore Grand Prix need to do so by Saturday.

[Lee Roy]

Council president urges mayor to end Grand Prix - Baltimore Sun (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2012-01-11/news/bs-md-ci-young-opposes-grand-prix-20120111_1_ryan-o-doherty-baltimore-racing-development-baltimore-grand-prix)


Council president urges mayor to end Grand Prix


January 11, 2012|By Julie Scharper and Luke Broadwater, The Baltimore SunCity Council President Bernard C. "Jack" Young is urging Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake to abandon the troubled Baltimore Grand Prix and focus on "core issues that impact the quality of life for all Baltimoreans."

In an op-ed article submitted to The Baltimore Sun, Young said the city should direct its limited resources to programs that benefit young people and senior citizens, such as public recreation centers and pools, both of which were cut under Rawlings-Blake's budget for the current fiscal year.

[nigelred5]

City council speaks out against the Mayor's Race........ Mayor says, you wans go there. Give back your RAVEN'S PLAYOFF TICKETS IN THE MAYOR'S SUITE. LOL. Ahhh, the political pissin match begins!

I WONDERED HOW LONG THAT WOULD TAKE. This should be interesting.

Rawlings-Blake recalls Young's Ravens tickets over Grand Prix flap - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/blog/bal-rawlingsblake-recalls-youngs-ravens-tickets-over-grand-prix-flap-20120117,0,5051661.story?track=rss)

[nigelred5]

I bet Young wishes he'd kept his mouth shut until after last Sunday.
:p : :p : :p :

I know I would have. Of course he wound up in Ray's personal skybox so not sure he lost out :)

[DBell]

It looks like Baltimore will survive. The city is set to announce a new promoter with a deal for 5 years.

Baltimore grand Prix: City picks new management team - baltimoresun.com (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-grand-prix-selection-20120210,0,7934555.story)

[FIAT1]

Good news. I think every new race needs at least 3 years before real judgment comes out. I think that Indycar should be more engaged in promotional busness of these new races.

[nigelred5]

The deal looks like it is structured a little more tightly. My first order of buisness was to always set aside tax obligations. I don't mess with the tax man.

I just wish there was some effort to repay the vendors that went unpaid from last year's events. I guess they are leaving that up to the courts to settle. Baltimore inflated what they had originally agreed to charge the organizers, so I don't feel so bad there.

Maryland Govt. likes that lock box concept. Too bad they are all to eager to pass state legislation necessary to divert those funds all too often.

[anthonyvop]

Deal is done

Baltimore selects new race operator (http://www.oversteertv.net/IndyCar.html)