Open letter to Voice Of Rally/Colin Clark

[Lundgaard]

Dear Colin,

I am writing you after having tried all other options to get in touch with the people behind wrc.com and production of the images we see on television from the WRC-rounds. They simply do not correspond to criticism. And I know you check this forum.

First off - WRC.com:

50-60 percent of the time the site does not work. The videos simply do not work. If there had been any interesting material on the side, it would obviously be a huge problem, but there is not. Wrc.com are apparently not informed but we are in 2011 and HD is the standard. The videos are so extremely pixilated, it's almost impossible to see what happens on the screen!

Furthermore, the camera angles are completely ridiculous. There must be a camera in the car between the seets like in the old days. So you can see the steering wheel and the road ahead.
I am the biggest onboard-fan in the world but I have not seen them in the last 10 years, because the camera-position is so bad.

Here is an example from Bonver Valašská rally 2011 where they can work it out in beautiful HD:

Bonver Vala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8vorU2Fc&feature=player_embedded)

I can look at this for hours!


Second: The official coverage for television.

It does not capture the intensity, noise and excitement of the rally at all. It looks really just boring.

When you do find HD-videos on youtube from such people like “Rally media” or “Rallymad.com” it feels like you actually attending the rally! Amazing.

There is something very wrong!

I do not know if you have the power or connecting to change anything, but I am sure the sport is ruined by the way things are currently going.

I only hear World Rally Radio, and do not want to see it on television. How can we make people interested in the sport like this!?

[belas]

I couldn't agree more. The videos of ''RallyMad'' and ''Rallymedia'' -among others- make you feel that the official coverage is from a different boring rally. O.K. they have to show the banners of the sponsors, but it has gone too far. Also keep in mind that those people that you mentioned, usually do not even have the luxury of a tabard and in most cases have to play hide and seek with the marshals, in order to be in the right places and capture the action.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Amen! I've sent to Becs and Colin ;)

[N.O.T]

I think the wrc.com is a different company than north one....could be wrong though.

[SubaruNorway]

Sometimes the video's on wrc.com work if you press the blue ? icon, sometimes not...

Stop paying for ESPN or whatever and pay us to do all the rallies instead ;)
You are a bit more limited also when you use a tripod so that's one of the reasons why our footage look more violent if you like.

The camera in Mikko's car this year is good! It's small too I've seen and on the seat flap so not in the way for helmets to be put in the back.

Shouldn't this be sendt to Simon Long in North one?
[email:3s0dy5rq]simon.long@northonesport.com[/email:3s0dy5rq]

[Daniel]

Whilst most of that is nothing to do with Colin, I would simply ask that he stop calling the sport of rallying "rally".

[Jake Stephens]

Simon Long in 2010: "We believe that WRC is the sport for the digital age. WRC is data rich creating hundreds of hours of footage and acres of information including timings, GPS and results. A digital approach to WRC is key to how we satisfy our fans insatiable appetite for more coverage, more data and more facts."

Link for anyone interested: http://newsroom.wrc.com/content/WRC%20Factbook%202010.pdf

My point: Simon Long can talk the talk... but that's about it. An example of how they could care less about their 'digital approach' is their iPhone App. Open it up for it to greet you with 'Season 2010' on the screen. That's just lazy.

[Daniel]

Simon Long in 2010: "We believe that WRC is the sport for the digital age. WRC is data rich creating hundreds of hours of footage and acres of information including timings, GPS and results. A digital approach to WRC is key to how we satisfy our fans insatiable appetite for more coverage, more data and more facts."

Link for anyone interested: http://newsroom.wrc.com/content/WRC%20Factbook%202010.pdf

My point: Simon Long can talk the talk... but that's about it. An example of how they could care less about their 'digital approach' is their iPhone App. Open it up for it to greet you with 'Season 2010' on the screen. That's just lazy.

What a ****wit. Back in the 80's or 90's I never recall anyone saying "ooh I wish we had GPS data from the cars!" do you?

Seriously Simon, buy youself some late 90's WRC season reviews and learn a thing or ten about on stage camera placement and in car camera placement.....

[N.O.T]

Seriously Simon, buy youself some late 90's WRC season reviews and learn a thing or ten about on stage camera placement and in car camera placement.....

no need to do that...hire darkstar as advisor.

[Juha_Koo]

One thing I don't understand is the crying about incar camera angles. In 90s we didn't have same seats as today, we didn't have the same rollcage/interior designs, we didn't have the same cars. The "90s angle" is basically physically impossible to create in modern cars. I don't know what's so difficult in understanding that.

I'm happy for WRC onboards, the new angle (which is used with the new Recaro safety seats, e.g in Mikko's car; this one: http://juhake.kapsi.fi/motorsport/fiesta_onboard_angle_mexico.png ) is excellent in my opinion. But this angle is not possible in Citroens or in Jari-Matti's car simply because they don't use those new Recaro seats. Take a look at some photos of WRC cars taken from behind with the tail gate open. It's very narrow view through the seats. And that space is work area for the crews: they have their HANS', helmets, headsets, etc. behind the seats which they access through that small space. Crews are not there to provide fappable multimedia, they are there to compete. Take a look at Fiesta's or DS3's roll cage design and tell me where you'd put the incar camera.

I honestly like to see action from A-pillar or roof camera instead of watching the rear of carbon fibre seats.

[Daniel]

One thing I don't understand is the crying about incar camera angles. In 90s we didn't have same seats as today, we didn't have the same rollcage/interior designs, we didn't have the same cars. The "90s angle" is basically physically impossible to create in modern cars. I don't know what's so difficult in understanding that.

I'm happy for WRC onboards, the new angle (which is used with the new Recaro safety seats, e.g in Mikko's car; this one: http://juhake.kapsi.fi/motorsport/fiesta_onboard_angle_mexico.png ) is excellent in my opinion. But this angle is not possible in Citroens or in Jari-Matti's car simply because they don't use those new Recaro seats. Take a look at some photos of WRC cars taken from behind with the tail gate open. It's very narrow view through the seats. And that space is work area for the crews: they have their HANS', helmets, headsets, etc. behind the seats which they access through that small space. Crews are not there to provide fappable multimedia, they are there to compete. Take a look at Fiesta's or DS3's roll cage design and tell me where you'd put the incar camera.

I honestly like to see action from A-pillar or roof camera instead of watching the rear of carbon fibre seats.
That's a good view, BUT often the view seems a lot worse than that.

[Lundgaard]

Well, as you can see i the clip from Kopecky (Bonver Vala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8vorU2Fc&feature=player_embedded)) it is possible to set
the camera right in the modern rallycar. Also rallying is only here because of the viewers. Most of the time it does not feel like that

[tfp]

Some of the best "amatuer" footage I've seen of a rally recently was a video someone made of the acropolis rally, I'll try and find it...

[tfp]

Darkstar :up: :)
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/140781-acropolis-rally-2011-a-40.html

[Daniel]

Darkstar :up: :)
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/140781-acropolis-rally-2011-a-40.html

That the official coverage isn't using footage of this quality is pitiful....

[Juha_Koo]

Well, as you can see i the clip from Kopecky (Bonver Vala (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwp8vorU2Fc&feature=player_embedded)) it is possible to set
the camera right in the modern rallycar. Also rallying is only here because of the viewers. Most of the time it does not feel like that

In Fabia they store helmets, headsets, etc. in the codriver's legs compartment, so that angle is not available in Fiesta nor DS3... Look how the camera blocks crew's access to behind seats.

I would love to see new incar angles, but it's nearly impossible to produce them.

[Livewireshock]

Maybe the position and mounting fixture could be a mandated item in the cars. Like the positioning and mounting of the WRC GPS Tracking System is required to placed in the same place. A similar proposal is in place for Touring Cars in Australia, enabling video footage to be used by the Stewards after an incident from the same angle and viewpoint in each car frontwards and rear facing, not just for TV purposes. With current lipstick cameras becoming smaller, it should not be a weight penalty or even restrict access too much into the rear of the cabin.

[Loose_Unit]

thank god its not just me the videos dont work for! i get so f**king frustrated by this... just put links to youtube if you cant get it right wrc.com!!!!

[bretddog]

In Fabia they store helmets, headsets, etc. in the codriver's legs compartment, so that angle is not available in Fiesta nor DS3... Look how the camera blocks crew's access to behind seats.

I would love to see new incar angles, but it's nearly impossible to produce them.
I don't see this is any problem if you just want it to happen. All that is needed is to design a generic camera unit, with a flip-down mount. Spring-loaded so it can just be pushed off position and not require much of a focus from the crew. Fix it to the inside roof so it fits all cars. Just a simple little plastic-thingy.

You would have to make a couple prototypes, but should not be very difficult for someone in mechanical design.

[Franky]

My honest reply to this thread would only be laughter.

But here's why:

First of the wrc.com site. That site has been f'ed up since 2002 or even earlier. Splits not working, site overload, site completely freezing, etc. It's nothing new. I'm pretty sure that I remember the very old WRC.com forum members referring to the site as Error.com. That site has been fully not functioning for years and I honestly don't know who or what would fix that.

Now the TV coverage. This month I've been analyzing different rally reviews (WRC 2001, 2005, 2011 and IRC 2011). As a programme I have to say that the current format is the best but the camerawork as mentioned in the first post is a bit disappointing. The best camerawork is from the reviews I watched is from 2001. What has changed over the 10 years? Frankly, not much but enough to change the looks of rallying on TV. First thing that you actually notice is the helicopter footage in 2001, which is stunning. But the onground cameras are actually the same pretty much. The difference is that they film even more from distance and in locations where the car is in shot for a longer time period. That looses the feeling of speed from the footage because there's nearly no footage from the inside of turns. This is a guess, but I think that about 90% of the shots are from the outside of corners. To improve the camerawork on WRC rally reviews is the easiest thing to do - different camera placement, more than a few similar angles from the same spot and better quality incar footage.

Some have mentioned that the reviews "should" be done by rally fans. If you want a semi-pro final result, then yes that's an option. Here's one big difference between rally fan footage and WRC TV crew ones - quality. Okey, the WRC clips are more boring and the speed factor is quite close to zero - check the older reviews and you'll notice that highspeed shots are used mostly only in highlight section of the programme. The quality actually comes from the equipment that's used. WRC crews use ENG (Electronic News Gathering) cameras, which are huge (e.g., Sony XDCAM HD EX3 is 250 x 210 x 400 mm [W x H x D]) and not so light (nearly 4kg). When you compare that to what most rally fans use, a simple camcorder, which usually is around 500g. Adding a teleconverter or wide angle lens adds about 300g's to the camera weight. You simply cannot do some shots that are doable with a camcorder with a prosumer high-end video camera. You may think that the difference in image quality isn't noticeable but it's really clear when you see the colors. The colorspace on consumer cameras is much worse than the prosumer ones have. Okey, DSLRs have nearly the same colors etc but with those things you've limited to a certain focal length and good zooming isn't possible. And of course they aren't video cameras. Long story short, pros should do the official reviews and fans may do their videos if they want. Just the pros need to up their game or they need to be replaced.

Just my two cents.

[Allar]

Those news of Ford on WRC.com just make me nuts, they are just so stupid! I mean those: ''Ford's Wilson remains confident'' , ''Blue Oval can fight back in second half of season, insists chief Quinn'' and others...

Ford have just been pathetic this year and they keep sayin this bull****, no they dont have to be negative, but they should shut up and work more on cars and make them better.

[Allar]

thank god its not just me the videos dont work for! i get so f**king frustrated by this... just put links to youtube if you cant get it right wrc.com!!!!

i have same problem on my old computer, but on my new laptop they work well, but quality is bad.

[Franky]

@ tommeke_B: Filming on shoulder is the worst thing you can do. Like with filming humans the best height is the eye line, the same goes for rallies. Of course there are shots that looks best from higher angle and some from the ground, but mostly it's about the eye-line of the driver in the car. Believe me, the WRC cameramen can do wonders with the tripod, but they need to try more different angles on the stage. At the moment they are playing too safe.

About banners. I looked up 2003 Rally Finland 2nd leg review (WRC Daily Highlights: Finland 2003 Day 2: 26 Minutes - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_qhdlfnL0)). Just watch one minute from 3:00 to 4:00 and count the times you see the banners. It's just the lack of different and more interesting camera placements/angles.

[bjalverud]

@ tommeke, you pointed to the right person in germany, if you look at these men coverage from the 90's (Chopard Brothers, RallyVideo, Star Production), it was just perfect ! Never seen anything better than what they provided then. I was so glad to see them again in Sweden, filming for "the best of rally live - Michelin". If you look to what they filmed this year, you can notice that it's what we need, just too short. They're close to Michele Mouton, so we can maybe expect that things could change :)

[mousti]

Well ERC has been a championship that has been since 2000 I think lost their importance of championship. Although they are doing the good thing what WRC are missing! And that's almost all to thank to Luca Grille formerly known as Cricketsfillm and now as Ellegy TV. He has always good places where he films from, very spectacular, nice sounds, great quality and also nice onboards! Plus some nice interviews and a reporter with a great voice :D . That coverage alone makes that championship more exciting to follow :-)

[SubaruNorway]

I use a Sony FX1000 and i know either rallymedia or rally-mad has the same and I've seen the wrc cameramen use it for interviews and service footage. It's much better if you view it directly to tv too, youtube kills a lot of quality.

The inboard cameras are 4:3 stretched to 16:9 so no wonder the quality is bad.

[SubaruNorway]

I'm happy for WRC onboards, the new angle (which is used with the new Recaro safety seats, e.g in Mikko's car; this one: http://juhake.kapsi.fi/motorsport/fiesta_onboard_angle_mexico.png ) is excellent in my opinion. But this angle is not possible in Citroens or in Jari-Matti's car simply because they don't use those new Recaro seats. Take a look at some photos of WRC cars taken from behind with the tail gate open. It's very narrow view through the seats. And that space is work area for the crews: they have their HANS', helmets, headsets, etc. behind the seats which they access through that small space. Crews are not there to provide fappable multimedia, they are there to compete. Take a look at Fiesta's or DS3's roll cage design and tell me where you'd put the incar camera.

I honestly like to see action from A-pillar or roof camera instead of watching the rear of carbon fibre seats.

The space between the seats is too narrow to fit helmets so they lift it over the codrivers seat I've noticed. The camera like in Mikko's car is only a bullet cam and fitted to the flap so i can't see why it should be a problem.

Here's the type used on Mikko's car.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=68996)
And there is plenty of space for it on the sparco seat too.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=67575)
Lifting helmet over the seat.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=65126)
Not sure if I've seen footage from Kimi's seat cam?
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=65129)

[Franky]

Nice light weight camera. I've used the few generations older Z1 several times and like what the camera can do, tho ENGs have a better lens and more control due to that over the image. But I'll stop here with the technical side because I feel like hijacking this thread and going too much off topic. If someone wants to continue this conversation then let's do in some other thread/place. It might be quite interesting actually.

But here's what I meant initially.
1) Better filming locations and better camera position, which would result in more interesting shots.
2) Going hand-held isn't the way because shakiness is more a feature in documentary filmmaking and in amateur/fan videos. Pro stuff is nearly always smooth. And you actually can do wonders with a tripod.
3) Better helicopter footage. It can do wonders when you need to patch totally different shots together.

[Juha_Koo]

The space between the seats is too narrow to fit helmets so they lift it over the codrivers seat I've noticed. The camera like in Mikko's car is only a bullet cam and fitted to the flap so i can't see why it should be a problem.

Here's the type used on Mikko's car.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=68996)
And there is plenty of space for it on the sparco seat too.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=67575)
Lifting helmet over the seat.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=65126)
Not sure if I've seen footage from Kimi's seat cam?
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=65129)

Well, it's a problem because the other seats are covered with fabric. I don't know how they would glue it to place versus the Mikko's camera which is attached to hard plastic/carbon fibre. I'm sure teams don't want ruptures in 500€+ seats. :D Citroen's (factory team) use their own-design seats, don't know who has manufactured them, but also covered with fabric.

JM isn't lifting the helmet over the seat, but exactly from the gap. And that isn't camera in Kimi's car, that's intercom connector. :) Hopefully the onboard camera guys could investigate how the intercom connector is attached to Kimi's seat, maybe they could use the idea for their cameras also.

[SubaruNorway]

Well, it's a problem because the other seats are covered with fabric. I don't know how they would glue it to place versus the Mikko's camera which is attached to hard plastic/carbon fibre. I'm sure teams don't want ruptures in 500€+ seats. :D Citroen's (factory team) use their own-design seats, don't know who has manufactured them, but also covered with fabric.

JM isn't lifting the helmet over the seat, but exactly from the gap. And that isn't camera in Kimi's car, that's intercom connector. :) Hopefully the onboard camera guys could investigate how the intercom connector is attached to Kimi's seat, maybe they could use the idea for their cameras also.

Black duct tape! ;) Grøndal uses it on his go pro when fitted to the flap, simple but does the job :)
Of course, i see the same on Kaj's belt now. Seems to be fitted with a cable tie.

Enjoy some fast sections with Grøndal from last winter :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeGUhXXCtSIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeGUhXXCtSI

[Lundgaard]

Great onboard with Grøndal! That shows how easy it is! And how frustrating it is that the "pros" don't get it!

[Juha_Koo]

I remember that Gröndahl onboard, it's great. It does have one major problem though, which is such that I wouldn't watch them more than that one.

Pacenotes. They are absolutely vital in every onboard no matter what. No exceptions.

[Daniel]

I remember that Gröndahl onboard, it's great. It does have one major problem though, which is such that I wouldn't watch them more than that one.

Pacenotes. They are absolutely vital in every onboard no matter what. No exceptions.

Definitely

[SubaruNorway]

I remember that Gröndahl onboard, it's great. It does have one major problem though, which is such that I wouldn't watch them more than that one.

Pacenotes. They are absolutely vital in every onboard no matter what. No exceptions.

No problem!

The guy i run Motorsportfilmer.net (http://www.motorsportfilmer.net) with sells the Contour cameras in Norway and they have input for intercom or external mic, even GPS information like position and speed which you can implement in the video. Just have a look at some of these of Grøndal, Østberg, Bieltvedt and Kjær :)

Onboard (http://motorsportfilmer.net/category/rally/onboard)

A bit more expensive than GOPRO, not too much wideangel as the GOPRO and better picture quality.
Contour | GPS Video Camera, HD Helmet Camera, and Video Community (http://contour.com/)

[MSP AU]

No problem!

The guy i run Motorsportfilmer.net (http://www.motorsportfilmer.net) with sells the Contour cameras in Norway and they have input for intercom or external mic, even GPS information like position and speed which you can implement in the video. Just have a look at some of these of Grøndal, Østberg, Bieltvedt and Kjær :)

Onboard (http://motorsportfilmer.net/category/rally/onboard)

A bit more expensive than GOPRO, not too much wideangel as the GOPRO and better picture quality.
Contour | GPS Video Camera, HD Helmet Camera, and Video Community (http://contour.com/)

I have GoPro, Contour, Drift and VIO POV.HD plus several older cams but never had any luck with Contour. Have you managed to get the iphone app or gps to work continuously? I hire them, so the only cameras I'll buy are the GoPro and Drift. Not the best cameras for everything, but reliable. That first video in post number one looks like the VIO POV.HD, which is great for capturing the right exposure but has been buggy from delivery. Five of the seven cameras I have purchased went back!

Sorry to get off topic.. Nice to hear that everyone has issues with WRC video, and I thought it was just me. Cannot get it to play smoothly on anything.

As for iRally, video play smooth if the network setting is turned off and app is only using the 3G network to load.

[Lundgaard]

Hmmm....no answer from Colin Clark. Probably to much to ask when you remember that he is paid be the very guys who ruin the sport.
Well then, it is back til Rallymedia, Darkstar and Rallye Mad for the next 10 years.

Keep up the good work guys!

[N.O.T]

I think he has nothing to do with North one thats why he did not reply....

Is wrc.com owned by north one or have any affiliation ?

The subject concerns north one more than wrc.com

[bennizw]

I also think Colin is busy working at the IRC round in Barum.

[AndyRAC]

I think he has nothing to do with North one thats why he did not reply....

Is wrc.com owned by north one or have any affiliation ?

The subject concerns north one more than wrc.com

NorthOne own the commercial and Promotional rights to the WRC - It is their website!! Look at the bottom of wrc.com; NorthOne Sport 2011

[Livewireshock]

I also think Colin is busy working at the IRC round in Barum.

Colin is having the rarest of rare things for him, a quiet weekend at home before he jets off again to Australia next week. Could anyone really blame him considering the time and effort he has to put in attending so many rally events every year.

Julian Porter interviewed Colin from his home where he was busy doing the ironing, looking after his kids and then going out to do the shopping. Domestic bliss. Plus over the past years, Colin has let his feelings be known about the WRC website and failure to keep up with new technologies, especially with everyone becoming more mobile with their computers/smartphone/touchpad.

[SubaruNorway]

I have GoPro, Contour, Drift and VIO POV.HD plus several older cams but never had any luck with Contour. Have you managed to get the iphone app or gps to work continuously? I hire them, so the only cameras I'll buy are the GoPro and Drift. Not the best cameras for everything, but reliable. That first video in post number one looks like the VIO POV.HD, which is great for capturing the right exposure but has been buggy from delivery. Five of the seven cameras I have purchased went back!

Sorry to get off topic.. Nice to hear that everyone has issues with WRC video, and I thought it was just me. Cannot get it to play smoothly on anything.

As for iRally, video play smooth if the network setting is turned off and app is only using the 3G network to load.

I've never tried Contour myself and I've never heard about problems with it.

[MSP AU]

I've never tried Contour myself and I've never heard about problems with it.

First one went back because it had faulty micro sd slot, second had strange colour cast, third doesn't stay connected with iphone and requires restarting iphone every time it fails. And GPS just doesn't work period. Could be a bad batch, or something to do with my area, but not the kind of camera you can hire to customers unless you want to stay on the phone to them for the week.. sorry back on topic, yes WRC site is no good.

[darkstar]

no need to do that...hire darkstar as advisor.

hehe ;) i´m still sitting here waiting for a call from north one...it would of course be a dream come true to become a professional videofilmer.

but at first i must say thanks to all of you. i´m reallye very happy you all enjoy my videos, i´m always trying my best: finding new, spectacular spot´s and get footage from the best point of views. it´s also a lot of work before the rallye, watching onboards, talking to people about nice spots, studying maps etc. (you dont find nice places just by good luck, or at last it´s very rare).

about the onboard topic i must say, that most important thing to get a feeling for the speed is a wideangle lens in my opinion. thats what´s missing at that "hirvonencamonseat" position, otherwise its pretty good and my personal favourite at this years onboards. 2nd best is cam on the roof, it brings a good speedexperiense, but of course you dont see the driver´s work then. but it´s still ok...

[N.O.T]

hehe ;) i´m still sitting here waiting for a call from north one...it would be a dream come true to become a professional videofilmer.

but at first i must say thanks to all of you. i´m reallye very happy you all enjoy my videos, i´m always trying my best: finding new, spectacular spot´s and get footage from the best point of views. it´s also a lot of work before the rallye, watching onboards, talking to people about nice spots, studying maps etc. (you dont find nice places just by good luck, or at last it´s very rare).

about the onboard topic i must say, that most important thing to get a feeling for the speed is a wideangle lens in my opinion. thats what´s missing at that "hirvonencamonseat" position, otherwise its pretty good and my personal favourite at this years onboards. 2nd best is cam on the roof, it brings a good speedexperiense, but of course you dont see the driver´s work then. but it´s still ok...

why don't you make the first step...send them a tape with your footage and a cv and i think it would be hard for them to decline you an interview at least....

[Lundgaard]

Yes! Do that, Darkstar!. Show them who is the master.

[Franky]

why don't you make the first step...send them a tape with your footage and a cv and i think it would be hard for them to decline you an interview at least....

N.O.T, that's not how they work. It's more like they contact you, not the other way around.

Now this is what I've been told in the past about the cameramen on the WRC crew. They can do much better shots, etc. but the programme sets conditions they have to follow.

[Daniel]

N.O.T, that's not how they work. It's more like they contact you, not the other way around.

Now this is what I've been told in the past about the cameramen on the WRC crew. They can do much better shots, etc. but the programme sets conditions they have to follow.

I'd imagine if Darkstar was working for northone it'd go something like this

Now I'm sorry mate, we're going to have to let you go. You're just conveying too much of a sense of speed and showing the sport off too well for our liking. You just don't get that what this sport is about is standing at rubbish viewpoints and getting as much footage of the cars as possible, it doesn't matter whether the cars are going in a straight line or whether the footage looks boring, what we're really after is quantity, not quality and I'm sorry but we're going to have to let you go.

[tfp]

I'd imagine if Darkstar was working for northone it'd go something like this

Now I'm sorry mate, we're going to have to let you go. You're just conveying too much of a sense of speed and showing the sport off too well for our liking. You just don't get that what this sport is about is standing at rubbish viewpoints and getting as much footage of the cars as possible, it doesn't matter whether the cars are going in a straight line or whether the footage looks boring, what we're really after is quantity, not quality and I'm sorry but we're going to have to let you go.

Add to this;
"And theres too much good quality shots of the cars going sideways, etc and not enough looking at WRC's sponsers and all the banners that they litter the stages with"

:p

[Daniel]

Add to this;
"And theres too much good quality shots of the cars going sideways, etc and not enough looking at WRC's sponsers and all the banners that they litter the stages with"

:p

yes, that whole sideways thing has nothing to do with rallying.

[N.O.T]

I think their priority is to make more money and in their case better footage will make more people interested which will raise their profits, Darkstar has nothing to lose to send them a sample of his work. The worst case senario would be that they do not pay attention to it, but every other senario will benefit everyone from North-one to us rally fans.

[Cloverleaf]

Back to incar camera positions. Here are some good examples:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/tayyar_ak47/IRC/icarss/bscap225.jpg
Guy Wilks - Kronos 207 S2000

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/tayyar_ak47/IRC/icarss/bscap224.jpg
Václav Pech - Evo IX R4

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/tayyar_ak47/IRC/icarss/bscap221.jpg
Thierry Neuville - Kronos 207 S2000

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a186/tayyar_ak47/IRC/icarss/bscap226.jpg
Thierry Neuville - Kronos 207 S2000

[GigiGalliNo1]

And dont forget, those views are also broadcast LIVE!! So why cant WRC do the same with camera views?!

[N.O.T]

I think the main problem is that Europsort is a dedicated sports channel... i doubt any normal channel would cripple its program to broadcast the WRC, since it would have to broadcast the special stage, then have a break, then broadcast again ects...its easy for eurosport because they do that in their normal broadcasting 24/7.

I think the Live power stage is a good start, maybe in the future we can have 1 stage broadcasted live on each day. that would keep the viewers (rally and nonrally) interested in the event throughout its 3 day duration.

[Franky]

I think their priority is to make more money and in their case better footage will make more people interested which will raise their profits, Darkstar has nothing to lose to send them a sample of his work. The worst case senario would be that they do not pay attention to it, but every other senario will benefit everyone from North-one to us rally fans.

I agree with that and I'd say "Go on, submit your reel" but there's a really big chance of the worst case scenario - no answer from NOS.

Darkstar, the line between a pro and amateur cameraman is so thin that making that step forwards is easy. The difference comes in how the work is done and the quality of the shots. Sometimes dreams are closer to reality than you think ;)

[SubaruNorway]

It would be cool if North One had a shootout to try out new cameramen :)
I'm offered work in Norway to film rally and other motorsports but i find it more fun to do it on my own (even after 10 hours of editing like yesterday) doing the WRC would be totally different though ;)

[olschl]

First off, great topic and glad to see so much input from everyone. What about the Russian investor Antonov, and his investment in North One? Wasn't this supposed to provide the capital for radical upgrades in WRC coverage? In reviewing all of the past seasons back to 1984, it seems to me that coverage reached its peak in the 2000/2001, just prior to the tech bubble crash. I assume that was because there was a lot more cash available for helicopter footage, etc.?

[AndyRAC]

First off, great topic and glad to see so much input from everyone. What about the Russian investor Antonov, and his investment in North One? Wasn't this supposed to provide the capital for radical upgrades in WRC coverage? In reviewing all of the past seasons back to 1984, it seems to me that coverage reached its peak in the 2000/2001, just prior to the tech bubble crash. I assume that was because there was a lot more cash available for helicopter footage, etc.?

Hmm, when did ISC, now NorthOne take over the filming of the WRC?? It was around then I think. Before that we had BHP, BBC Worldwide & a Spanish company...
Watching coverage from the BBC highlights shows with Mark James, Tiff Needell and Jeremy Hart - it is far superior, and thats over 10 years ago. It really isn't hard to provide decent coverage.

[Lundgaard]

First off, great topic and glad to see so much input from everyone. What about the Russian investor Antonov, and his investment in North One? Wasn't this supposed to provide the capital for radical upgrades in WRC coverage? In reviewing all of the past seasons back to 1984, it seems to me that coverage reached its peak in the 2000/2001, just prior to the tech bubble crash. I assume that was because there was a lot more cash available for helicopter footage, etc.?

It is all talk, talk, talk with North One. NOTHING happens. And I agree about the peak in 2000/2001. I actually can't believe that Citroën, Ford and Mini don't do anything about it. Okay, they focus on the driving but North One is costing them millions in lost viewers.

[Mirek]

Cloverleaf: More than 50 full-stage HD onboards from Barum rally should be released for non-Czech IPs tomorrow including 20 minutes long "best off selection". Some are really nice :)

The link where they should appear is: VÅ¡e o Rally CZ, AutoCrossu, RallyCrossu, Kartingu • MediaSport.cz (http://www.mediasport.cz/rally/onboardy.html) Upon the video screen there is a possibility to switch quality HD/Standard/Low (Nízká).

[WRCfan]

Lundgaard is right. NorthOne is killing what the WRC is. It's painful to actually watch their drowsy coverage with the guy who wanders off to make a cup of tea and insists we ride onboard for 9 minutes of a 40 minute broadcast with Sebastien Loeb. Fire the lot of them!

[Gregor-y]

Eurosport's coverage of IRC events puts the WRC to shame. And a big part of it is live!
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1567/magalhaes6.jpg

[Franky]

Eurosport's coverage of IRC events puts the WRC to shame. And a big part of it is live!
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1567/magalhaes6.jpg

I want to see the footage from the helicopter and from that moment!

[Franky]

I searched for one of those WRC.com videos titled "What is rally" and found this one. Just amazing footage from the mid-naughties as someone put it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErAhHeJ6S4A

[GigiGalliNo1]

Recently watched the WRC coverge on ESPN HD and surprisingly enough - they showed a great amount of coverage on ALL WRC drivers and cars! Was it because Citroen crashed out? Perhaps but they continued on but still NorthOne gave coverage where needed on this round! Hat tip to them!

ONE HD or Network Ten in Australia - still have to finish their coverage but it was just local point of view of the Rally.

[Barreis]

MotorTV rules. Much better and longer coverages.

[autoxwyer]

Dear Colin,
Furthermore, the camera angles are completely ridiculous. There must be a camera in the car between the seets like in the old days. So you can see the steering wheel and the road ahead.


Yeah a camera in hte car between the seets seems be better, I agrree!

[autoxwyer]

One thing I don't understand is the crying about incar camera angles. In 90s we didn't have same seats as today, we didn't have the same rollcage/interior designs, we didn't have the same cars. The "90s angle" is basically physically impossible to create in modern cars. I don't know what's so difficult in understanding that.

I'm happy for WRC onboards, the new angle (which is used with the new Recaro safety seats, e.g in Mikko's car; this one: http://juhake.kapsi.fi/motorsport/fiesta_onboard_angle_mexico.png ) is excellent in my opinion. But this angle is not possible in Citroens or in Jari-Matti's car simply because they don't use those new Recaro seats. Take a look at some photos of WRC cars taken from behind with the tail gate open. It's very narrow view through the seats. And that space is work area for the crews: they have their HANS', helmets, headsets, etc. behind the seats which they access through that small space. Crews are not there to provide fappable multimedia, they are there to compete. Take a look at Fiesta's or DS3's roll cage design and tell me where you'd put the incar camera.

I honestly like to see action from A-pillar or roof camera instead of watching the rear of carbon fibre seats.


I think the video may help know more about (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2q_8NA0cMc&noredirect=1)car camera or (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2q_8NA0cMc&noredirect=1)car video recrder (http://www.tmart.com/Car-Camera-Recorders/) angles.