New car news II

[Hoop-98]

Can Ken's dream come true?

Key word is it will be as fast as we want it...

Curt Cavin

LOUDON, N.H. -- Computer simulations show that IndyCar's new car with turbocharged engines can be 15 mph quicker on road and street circuits. The increase on oval tracks hasn't been determined.

"It'll be as much as we want," project manager Tony Cotman said Sunday at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, an oval track.

Speeds will be regulated by the amount of horsepower permitted to the 2.2-liter V6 engines of Honda, Chevrolet and Lotus.

IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard is advocating speed records at all tracks -- he's most interested in new marks at Indianapolis Motor Speedway -- to show fans "things they've never seen before."

It will take a 10 mph jump to break Arie Luyendyk's Indy record of 237.498 mph.

Cotman said that's attainable, but he joked that one of his primary jobs is to "keep the reins on Randy."

Cotman said he'll have a better idea about potential oval-track speeds after next week's test at Texas Motor Speedway. In preparation for that session, the new Dallara driven by Dan Wheldon will test at Barber Motorsports Park outside Birmingham, Ala.

Testing at IMS is tentatively scheduled for the last week of September.

As for the car, Cotman asked the media to start referring to the airbox above the driver's head as "a turbo inlet" since that is its function. The airbox hasn't been popular with fans who associate it with the normally aspirated engines used in today's cars.

rh

[SarahFan]

Great .... Now the series should run with That

And as to your petty snippet... Let's be clear... It's less a dream and more a belief that speed is better platform to use to re-brand and build popularity on than less turbulence and a stiff front wing

Clearly you disagree

[Chris R]

gotta love it "turbo inlet" - gheesh - when will people learn that no matter what spin you put on it - people are not stupid - ugly is ugly.... now, if they want to be realistic and call it "sponsor decal presentation area" - that would at least not insult our intelligence....

[EagleEye]

Can Ken's dream come true?

Key word is it will be as fast as we want it...

Curt Cavin

LOUDON, N.H. -- Computer simulations show that IndyCar's new car with turbocharged engines can be 15 mph quicker on road and street circuits. The increase on oval tracks hasn't been determined.

"It'll be as much as we want," project manager Tony Cotman said Sunday at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, an oval track.

Speeds will be regulated by the amount of horsepower permitted to the 2.2-liter V6 engines of Honda, Chevrolet and Lotus.

IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard is advocating speed records at all tracks -- he's most interested in new marks at Indianapolis Motor Speedway -- to show fans "things they've never seen before."

It will take a 10 mph jump to break Arie Luyendyk's Indy record of 237.498 mph.

Cotman said that's attainable, but he joked that one of his primary jobs is to "keep the reins on Randy."

Cotman said he'll have a better idea about potential oval-track speeds after next week's test at Texas Motor Speedway. In preparation for that session, the new Dallara driven by Dan Wheldon will test at Barber Motorsports Park outside Birmingham, Ala.

Testing at IMS is tentatively scheduled for the last week of September.

As for the car, Cotman asked the media to start referring to the airbox above the driver's head as "a turbo inlet" since that is its function. The airbox hasn't been popular with fans who associate it with the normally aspirated engines used in today's cars.

rh

"Computer simulations show..."

For the computer simulations to be accurate, the following would have to be true:

1. Actual Weight = Target/Simulated weight
2. Actual drag = Target/Simulated Drag
3. Actual downforce = Target/Simulated downforce
4. Actual Weight distribution = Target/Simulated Weight distribution
5. Actual HP = Simulated HP

Among another 100 or so actual versus simulated data. For now, you can remove the equal sign.

But the good news is with there is time to change things to match their targets. Boost can be increased. The weight balance of the car can be changed, and the aero tweaked to get close to the numbers they targeted.

[Hoop-98]

Oh I understand that it will likely be heavier than promised, the power should be there, and it will take time to reach their targets. But they don't need to be 15 MPH faster at Long Beach or Mid Ohio, 7 MPH would be huge.

It will end up going about as fast as they want it to go, especially on ovals.

Look at the DP01 and the Dallara, the DP01 has about 10 pct more downforce and 100 more horsepower yet a relatively small performance advantage is easily accounted for by the power difference. They developed a "road course pig" to reach it's limiting factors, P/W, downforce/drag.

P/W, downforce, L/D are all going to be in the new cars favor.

Do I think we will see 59s at Long Beach, nope, but it will be a few seconds quicker, IMO.

With competing engines and eventually competing aero we will likely be back to slowing them down in a few years.

Not sure why Ken thought it was petty about his dream, I wouldn't mind seeing higher speeds, but I would be willing to run slower if the cars could actually race.

F1 with Kers and the disappearing drag, P2P, are all gimmicks for a real problem.

Even Nascar with 600 pounds of downforce can't pass, clean air is the holy grail.

I have no idea how the new car's rear aero addresses that, but like everything else, it will be fun to look forward to.

At least I will.

And Ken, I definitely think racing is more important than Q speeds.



rh

[SarahFan]

And I don't think it should be a choice.... Goal should be both

[NickFalzone]

And I don't think it should be a choice.... Goal should be both

With a new Indy car, this should be obvious. As I said in the other thread, the day that Indy racing is no longer about pushing the limit (with safety keeping up with demand) then it has lost me as a fan. This MAY not mean higher top speeds, although I would like that, but certainly, a NEW IndyCar should be "faster" around the track than the previous iteration. If/when the sport gets to the point where it's about cars that have better aero and thus get more bang for the buck (ie same speeds with less power, less fuel usage) then it's in a whole other area of racecar design that completely does not interest me.

[anthonyvop]

"Computer simulations show..."



That Team Lotus should be just as fast as the red Bull racing car. Trulli should be lining up next to Vettel.
Same weight. Same power, same tires. Same configurations and yet their times a poles apart.


But of course engineers know that isn't possible.

[00steven]

It will be dangerous, but certainly very exciting.

[Marbles]

"It'll be as much as we want"

Race 1: x boost for Lotus, x boost for Honda, x boost for Chev.
Race 5: xy boost for Lotus, smaller air inlet for Honda, y boost for Chev.
Race 9: JATO for Lotus, smaller air inlet, lower rev limit and yacht anchor for Honda, y boost for Chev.

It's be a wide open shootout for sure. The sky's the limit!

[NickFalzone]

"It'll be as much as we want"

Race 1: x boost for Lotus, x boost for Honda, x boost for Chev.
Race 5: xy boost for Lotus, smaller air inlet for Honda, y boost for Chev.
Race 9: JATO for Lotus, smaller air inlet, lower rev limit and yacht anchor for Honda, y boost for Chev.

It's be a wide open shootout for sure. The sky's the limit!

Lol, and this is why I do not watch Grand-Am.

[Hoop-98]

"It'll be as much as we want"

Race 1: x boost for Lotus, x boost for Honda, x boost for Chev.
Race 5: xy boost for Lotus, smaller air inlet for Honda, y boost for Chev.
Race 9: JATO for Lotus, smaller air inlet, lower rev limit and yacht anchor for Honda, y boost for Chev.

It's be a wide open shootout for sure. The sky's the limit!

Just curious? While ALMS and Grand Am do this what history makes you think ICS will?I know F1 changes the rules from race to race but Indy? Can you point out when engines running to the same spec get different playing fields? I mean it is possible, but also unprecedented in this series.

Thanks

[NickFalzone]

Just curious? While ALMS and Grand Am do this what history makes you think ICS will?I know F1 changes the rules from race to race but Indy? Can you point out when engines running to the same spec get different playing fields? I mean it is possible, but also unprecedented in this series.

Thanks

This has been discussed before, and I believe it is due to a quote by Cotman or Barnhart about their ability to "adjust" packages from race to race. It may not be handled the same way as the sports cars, but it sure sounded like it would.

[Hoop-98]

Any links to that thread or original source/quotes, I have never heard that except as rumor...

Thanks

[Marbles]

Just curious? While ALMS and Grand Am do this what history makes you think ICS will?I know F1 changes the rules from race to race but Indy? Can you point out when engines running to the same spec get different playing fields? I mean it is possible, but also unprecedented in this series.

Thanks

I may be mistaking but I was of the understanding that there isn't one single spec that is cemented in the rules. However, there is a maximum. Chevy and Honda have revealed what appear to be identical engines but I don't know what Lotus is bringing. Having said that, if Indycar is managing the horsepower of the engines depending on the course (550 oval, 750 road?) then I take that to mean that Honda, Chevy and Lotus will be benched and allowed whatever they need to meet this criteria. Not only is Indycar desperate to keep the action close on the track but they are equally desperate to keep these manufacturers happy. This is how I've interpreted what I've heard thus far although there hasn't been a single definitive source on specs. One Indycar article had the Honda at 2.2 and then the next had it at 2.4. i'm thinking 2.4 is the accurate one. :)

I'd be absolutely relieved to be wrong about all this.

[Hoop-98]

It's a mystery, past performance doesn't always predict future performance, but here has been no predilection in the past when one engine was superior for weekly rules changes. My Nostradamus permit has expired so I will have to wait and see!

rh

[Marbles]

I know how you feel. I misplaced my crystal ball a while back (back seat of a taxi?) and have been winging it ever since.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am just glad we have a new car coming to complain about.....and while it is kinda funny looking...it looks better than the current Dallara...

As for all the managing of performance, I don't like it but I know why it happens.....