Bernie stuck in the past?

[cosmicpanda]

More rows over electric in F1 as Toyota go for record- James Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/08/more-rows-over-electric-in-f1-as-toyota-go-for-record/)

I'm of the opinion that electric cars, of whatever type - fuel cell or mains-powered, or whatever - are the future. I'm not sure that anybody seriously believes that petrol will remain the dominant means of supplying energy indefinitely, or that we don't have to worry about what will come after "petrol runs out," any more. Obviously petrol will not run out in one big wallop, but it will become more expensive and the supply will gradually reduce.

Motorsport will have to come to terms with this too. Admittedly, electric-only in the pitlane is more symbolic than anything else, a bit like KERS today - if it were gone, nobody would really miss it. The fact that teams are developing high-performance hybrid cars, however, is surely something of great relevance to sponsors. Celebrities were great fans of the Prius when it came out, as I remember, simply for the perceived green credentials. As Bernie surely knows, Formula One makes its money from sponsors, who use it as a form of advertising. Part of the reason people watch formula one is because of the spectacle of these prototype cars. If the cars are no longer "ahead of the curve," part of that appeal will fall away.

Bernie's main argument is that electric cars are silent, and therefore dangerous in the pitlane. Admittedly, I have not been in a pitlane in my whole life, so he speaks from a position of greater authority than me. But I think he is being a bit disingenuous. Firstly, the pitlane is already identified as a place of danger. People are already aware of the danger of cars - that will not change. Silent cars will not suddenly see pitlane personnel bowled like skittles. Secondly, a car is still capable of being detected even if it is silent. People have eyes. They can use them. A deaf man is capable of crossing a busy road. Finally, even today when people have been knocked over in the pitlane, it is usually the result of driver error. To say that "people could be killed because they won't hear the cars coming" wrongly implies that the driver plays a passive role. Perhaps a lower pitlane speed limit could be employed if necessary.

So, if all that is reasonable enough, why does Bernie object to technical development? Surely there is a safety trade-off; there will be less risk of a fire in the pitlane, and presumably less risk of an accident like Heidfeld's recent one. I don't understand his position; either he is engaged in a political play that I disagree with, or he is just stuck in the past. Maybe both. He's pretty old.

[ioan]

What about the car producing a specific noise as soon as it enters the pit lane and the speed limiter is engaged? To simple for Bernie to be interesting enough.
He's way to old and should leave before they kick him out and that day is approaching fast, luckily.

[markabilly]

give me money money money.....that is what i say

[call_me_andrew]

Isn't a horn sounded when an F1 car enters pit lane?

[Rollo]

Bernie's main argument is that electric cars are silent, and therefore dangerous in the pitlane.

Solution: Rig up some loudspeakers where the muffler would be to create a synthetic engine noise.

The Warrior PTO E/2 from Need For Speed SE was electric... and it had an engine noise of sorts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6hrdgMaRn8&feature=related

[wedge]

The concept itself is very stupid and not 'F1'. A dumb idea to show the world that F1 can be green.

If F1 wants to be green it also needs to show engineering excellence such as freeing up KERS.

If Bernie is worried about pit lane safety then go back to marshalls sounding air horns.

[F1boat]

Honestly I simply don't want to see a trolley 1 series...

[BDunnell]

Perhaps we have to accept that Formula One, as a concept, will at some point have to die?

[Malbec]

Bernie's main argument is that electric cars are silent, and therefore dangerous in the pitlane.

Just because Bernie says that he is against something doesn't mean he is. I agree that there's something political going on.

I also think Bernie is losing the plot but that is more to do with his marketing model, he hasn't been able to adapt to the internet world quickly enough and exploit the different ways of watching a race and distributing rights sufficiently well. He's also made serious errors such as pushing a Bahrain race regardless of the consequences.

[ioan]

Let's be honest, what's the difference for us if they are running electric or fuel engines?! None whatsoever!
And even for the drivers there is less difference then one would like to believe, especially since they all use semi-automatic gearboxes.
In the end the cars will still be very fast and the best driver and car will win.
One should never oppose evolution!

[555-04Q2]

Hopefully electric cars, just like idiots, are not what the future holds for mankind.

[DexDexter]

I don't think we have to worry about electric cars for a while. The battery technology is miles off what it needs to be in order for full electric cars to be viable.

[ioan]

...whilst an F1 car speeds past with know the feeling as the sound vibrates through you and leaves you in awe.

And deaf.

[anthonyvop]

The only thing silly is the idea of electric powered F1. Political correctness to appease self-absorbed greenieweenies has no place in racing.

[SGWilko]

And deaf.

Pardon?

[ioan]

Not blind, deaf! ;) :D

[Mia 01]

Another one, OK, a race is up next week.

[BDunnell]

The only thing silly is the idea of electric powered F1. Political correctness to appease self-absorbed greenieweenies has no place in racing.

Racing will die otherwise, mark my words.

[kfzmeister]

I'm sure Bernie says what he does about electric pit lanes, because he knows that fans want noise.

I can't remember who said it, but one of the big wig engineers said that they've never had problems with creating some sort of noise in F1 when asked about the possible electric pitlane.

I, for one, can imagine some high pitched whine while racing down the pitlanes, sorta like straight gears in a transaxle.

[call_me_andrew]

I don't think we have to worry about electric cars for a while. The battery technology is miles off what it needs to be in order for full electric cars to be viable.

Viable in a race or viable on the street? In a race it's simply a matter of changing batteries.

[wedge]

Perhaps we have to accept that Formula One, as a concept, will at some point have to die?

Hydrogen seems the way to go.

Boys (engineers) let 'em have it.

[DexDexter]

Viable in a race or viable on the street? In a race it's simply a matter of changing batteries.

I was thinking of streets and I don't see F1 adapting electric cars before they are common on the streets. Offtopic but these manufacturers who bring these hybrid cars to the market always fail to mention that the batteries in the cars swill not stay as good as they are when the car is new. The performance of the batteries will quite soon drop off and the cars have to rely on the petrol engines more and more. :rolleyes:

[kfzmeister]

I don't think we have to worry about electric cars for a while. The battery technology is miles off what it needs to be in order for full electric cars to be viable.

The most powerful electric car on earth ! Professionals only - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jIcWBe2_4w&feature=player_embedded)

[BDunnell]

Hydrogen seems the way to go.

Boys (engineers) let 'em have it.

I, for one, find the prospect exciting, not least because it might do away with the largely North American notion that speed and performance is only impressive and worthy of interest if it's environmentally-unfriendly.

[wedge]

I, for one, find the prospect exciting, not least because it might do away with the largely North American notion that speed and performance is only impressive and worthy of interest if it's environmentally-unfriendly.

Even as someone who follows North American motorsports I find that remark offensive and uneducated.

ALMS & Indycar have been using ethanol blend fuels for a few years now, and recently introduced toNASCAR.

ALMS has the Green X Challenge to promote its green credentials.

Indycar is going with turbo engines again.

ALMS has been the pinnacle endurance series with diesels competing.

As for NASCAR - if ain't broke don't fix it. I think it's great that we have a top class championship that has simplistic engineering AKA dinosaur technology.

[BDunnell]

Even as someone who follows North American motorsports I find that remark offensive and uneducated.

ALMS & Indycar have been using ethanol blend fuels for a few years now, and recently introduced toNASCAR.

ALMS has the Green X Challenge to promote its green credentials.

Indycar is going with turbo engines again.

ALMS has been the pinnacle endurance series with diesels competing.

As for NASCAR - if ain't broke don't fix it. I think it's great that we have a top class championship that has simplistic engineering AKA dinosaur technology.

My comment was not directed at US motorsports at all, for exactly the reasons you give and more.

[steveaki13]

Be a dull race with a 13 hour pit stop for each driver in the race to recharge.

[wedge]

My comment was not directed at US motorsports at all, for exactly the reasons you give and more.

Regardless, there are certain stereotypes that I find very tiresome.


Be a dull race with a 13 hour pit stop for each driver in the race to recharge.

Hydrogen fuel cells? No it wouldn't IIRC

[BDunnell]

Regardless, there are certain stereotypes that I find very tiresome.

There is much evidence to be found on these very forums that suggests them to be rooted in truth.

[call_me_andrew]

Hydrogen is the most promising alternative energy, but it takes as much energy to produce it as it releases when consumed. The only way it will ever be practical is if we develope a practical form of nuclar fusion to provide cheap power forever.

[ioan]

There is much evidence to be found on these very forums that suggests them to be rooted in truth.

Exactly.

[Garry Walker]

There is much evidence to be found on these very forums that suggests them to be rooted in truth.

You being racist?

[BDunnell]

You being racist?

Er... no.

[52Paddy]

The most powerful electric car on earth ! Professionals only - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jIcWBe2_4w&feature=player_embedded)

That's deadly. Electricity in motor vehicles is still a new concept that is constantly developing. Although I love the internal combustion engine (and hope that it's lifespan lasts longer than mine), I do accept that it will have its day. It's good that people are finding successful alternatives. For us hardcore, passionate motor-sport fans, a lot of what we are passionate about may be lost, but it's something that will grow on us I'm sure.