why no penalty for Hamilton?

[markabilly]

Very danerous to spin and then pull out in front of the other car.

The stewards are blind. Must be because he is black.

[Mark]

You missed the drive through?

[gm99]

ehm, he was given a drive-through?

[Daniel]

LOL Markablindy?

[markabilly]

Like I said no penalty.

They just said a minute ago that he had to do the drive thro for the after spin move, but the penalty was a joke.

Completely

[CaptainRaiden]

Like I said no penalty.

They just said a minute ago that he had to do the drive thro for the after spin move, but the penalty was a joke.

Completely

How is a drive-through not a penalty? WTF? And could have waited a bit more before starting the thread. This is just epic fail.

http://www.epicfail.com/images/darth-vader-epic-fail.jpg

[Daniel]

Like I said no penalty.

They just said a minute ago that he had to do the drive thro for the after spin move, but the penalty was a joke.

Completely

What should they do then? Make him drink from the black person tap?

[steveaki13]

Strange. We all know a drive through or Stop and Go are the penalties in F1 and he deserved a penalty and the stewards did the right thing and gave him one, the action was taken end of issue.

[Daniel]

and Lewis apologised which is fair enough

[markabilly]

the penalty was a joke compared to the stupidity and danger.

Given his prior stunts this season, the penalty should have been far more, such as a stop and go(still a joke), or simply loss of position at the end, say 5 places--perhaps just a black flag and DQ.

It is one thing to have a bump while two drivers are fighting for position in the middle of a corner, but it is totally different to spin out, sit there and re-enter like he did.

Given the prior transgressions, one race ban would be perfectly fair and appropriate.

And this is the first time that I have ever said any driver should suffer a race ban, but this should be enough prior bad acts to warrant the punishment


apology? What a joke!!

[N4D13]

Sincerely, a drive through is OK for me. A stop and go would have been fine as well, but nothing else. His move was pretty dumb and reckless, but he got a penalty for that, and I think it was a fair one.

[52Paddy]

the penalty was a joke compared to the stupidity and danger.

Given his prior stunts this season, the penalty should have been far more, such as a stop and go(still a joke), or simply loss of position at the end, say 5 places--perhaps just a black flag and DQ.

It is one thing to have a bump while two drivers are fighting for position in the middle of a corner, but it is totally different to spin out, sit there and re-enter like he did.

Given the prior transgressions, one race ban would be perfectly fair and appropriate.

And this is the first time that I have ever said any driver should suffer a race ban, but this should be enough prior bad acts to warrant the punishment


apology? What a joke!!

I agree that the move was well out of order. But the deserved drive-thru penalty was served and I don't think any further action was appropriate. He went from leading the race to 6th place. That's a fairly harsh lesson learned I think. And, perhaps an apology doesn't mean much to you but, to a lot of people, a sincere statement of 'sorry, my fault', goes a long way. Don't be so abrasive.

[markabilly]

I agree that the move was well out of order. But the deserved drive-thru penalty was served and I don't think any further action was appropriate. He went from leading the race to 6th place. That's a fairly harsh lesson learned I think. And, perhaps an apology doesn't mean much to you but, to a lot of people, a sincere statement of 'sorry, my fault', goes a long way. Don't be so abrasive.

I would agree, if this was his first event of the season, but it is NOT. How many penalties and drive throughs as he had this season??

So time to send a big message

[BDunnell]

I agree that the move was well out of order. But the deserved drive-thru penalty was served and I don't think any further action was appropriate. He went from leading the race to 6th place. That's a fairly harsh lesson learned I think. And, perhaps an apology doesn't mean much to you but, to a lot of people, a sincere statement of 'sorry, my fault', goes a long way. Don't be so abrasive.

Absolutely right, in my view.

[SGWilko]

You missed the drive through?

Billy boy having trouble seeing through the KKK hood I reckon! :laugh:

[The Black Knight]

I agree that the move was well out of order. But the deserved drive-thru penalty was served and I don't think any further action was appropriate. He went from leading the race to 6th place. That's a fairly harsh lesson learned I think. And, perhaps an apology doesn't mean much to you but, to a lot of people, a sincere statement of 'sorry, my fault', goes a long way. Don't be so abrasive.

Yeah I agree completely here. A penalty was just about deserved. He clearly didn't see DiResta. I felt DiResta didn't actually have to go onto the grass but he did. All the same a penalty was deserved and Hamilton took responsibility and apologised. There was no harm done and he was man enough to hold his hand up and say it was his fault.

This thread is an abismal attempt at wumming. markasilly is totally on his own on this one from what I can tell. At least until vhatever arrives of course. But that has become all too predictable at this stage, hasn't it?

[bigunn]

the penalty was a joke compared to the stupidity and danger.

Given his prior stunts this season, the penalty should have been far more, such as a stop and go(still a joke), or simply loss of position at the end, say 5 places--perhaps just a black flag and DQ.

It is one thing to have a bump while two drivers are fighting for position in the middle of a corner, but it is totally different to spin out, sit there and re-enter like he did.

Given the prior transgressions, one race ban would be perfectly fair and appropriate.

And this is the first time that I have ever said any driver should suffer a race ban, but this should be enough prior bad acts to warrant the punishment


apology? What a joke!!

I agree, He has been endangering other drivers all year :mad:

[52Paddy]

This thread is an abismal attempt at wumming. markasilly is totally on his own on this one from what I can tell.

A few pints anyone? :beer:

[Bagwan]

This thread is an abysmal showing of disrespect to the thread starter .

Calling him names like "Markasilly" and "Markablindy" is against the rules of this forum .
Referencing the KKK is offensive .
Taking about the black tap is also offensive .

You people need to learn some manners .
I'm sick to death of this crap .



I agree with 'Billy here .
Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through .

[Daniel]

The incident was no big deal and Hamilton was unlucky to be given a penalty in the first place IMO. His spin put him in a dangerous position so it was only right he attempted to get out of it. His drive was good today and I am pleased overall.
To be fair though if you're in a dangerous positon on the track and the other drivers can see you (as was the case) then the safest thing is just to stay where you are.

[tstran17_88]

This thread is an abysmal showing of disrespect to the thread starter .

Calling him names like "Markasilly" and "Markablindy" is against the rules of this forum .
Referencing the KKK is offensive .
Taking about the black tap is also offensive .

You people need to learn some manners .
I'm sick to death of this crap .



I agree with 'Billy here .
Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through .

You might want to cut these guys some slack. They are not used to black folks playing the "race card" in Europe like they do in the states and being labeled a "racist" just because you were born a white male.

[Daniel]

This thread is an abysmal showing of disrespect to the thread starter .

Calling him names like "Markasilly" and "Markablindy" is against the rules of this forum .
Referencing the KKK is offensive .
Taking about the black tap is also offensive .

You people need to learn some manners .
I'm sick to death of this crap .



I agree with 'Billy here .
Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through .
Oh come on, the markablindy reference is obvious. people call me Denial or Baniel and I don't see the issue with it and I suspect with Markabilly being made of sterner stuff than some other people he took our comments on the chin and didn't take great offence. If he was offended he's more than welcome to say and I shall never make that sort of joke again.

[Daniel]

It was calculated and he was spinning his car before Di Resta came off the apex of the previous corner so I saw nothing wrong with it whatsover. Its nice to see he's the main talking point even though he didn't win the race though. Two impressive races in a row now for Hamilton and its clear they have the pace to eat into Vettel's lead, I think we're in for an exciting climax.

Is it impressive though? Again he's the talking point for the wrong reason.....

[The Black Knight]

This thread is an abysmal showing of disrespect to the thread starter .

Calling him names like "Markasilly" and "Markablindy" is against the rules of this forum .
Referencing the KKK is offensive .
Taking about the black tap is also offensive .

You people need to learn some manners .
I'm sick to death of this crap .



I agree with 'Billy here .
Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through .

Oh look, the anti-Hamilton cavilary has arrived. You might be sick to death of this crap but I'm sick to death of silly supporters like yourself giving the one real racer on the grid a hard time for trying to race. It's people like you that are ruining the sport. If you don't like a bit of wheel to wheel action then then going watch Tennis or something. Stop poisoning F1 with your nonsense.

F1 is motorracing and motorracing is dangerous. I can't help but laugh when people come along and say he is putting other drivers lives at risk on track. THEY put THEIR lives at risk everytime they jump in the cockpit. They do this knowingly. If you think Hamilton bad then go back and watch some real racing that went on in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Then tucktail and run under your bed, pee your pants and leave F1 for the real men to race in.

[The Black Knight]

Is it impressive though? Again he's the talking point for the wrong reason.....
In fairness, he got the penalty. This whole thread is a joke. He's an easy target and that's why he is picked on. It was an incident that borderline deserved a penalty. He got it, he served it, and he admitted he was wrong. He is the best driver on the grid. It has always been the best drivers that have been the most talked about.

[Daniel]

I think today showed why he is arguably the best driver in Formula One at the moment and he's really only a talking for the wrong reason's in some peoples eyes, so hardly an influential audience.

Huh? He made mistakes just like Button, Vettel and Alonso. I think if you take a step back and take your union flag tinted glasses off then you will see that at this point in time he's a distant 2nd best to Vettel at best.

[SGWilko]

This thread is an abysmal showing of disrespect to the thread starter .

Calling him names like "Markasilly" and "Markablindy" is against the rules of this forum .
Referencing the KKK is offensive .
Taking about the black tap is also offensive .

You people need to learn some manners .
I'm sick to death of this crap .



I agree with 'Billy here .
Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through .

What a load of cobblers.

You neglect to reference Billy suggesting that, perhaps, another poster is a paedophile, attempting to lure young boys. :rolleyes:

How stupid

That ain't Plato, he been dead 2,500 years.


Looks more like the photo that donKey constantly emails to young boys, hoping to lure them in

Get a life, or get outta here. :down:

[Daniel]

In fairness, he got the penalty. This whole thread is a joke. He's an easy target and that's why he is picked on. It was an incident that borderline deserved a penalty. He got it, he served it, and he admitted he was wrong. He is the best driver on the grid. It has always been the best drivers that have been the most talked about.

I'm sorry, but by what standard is Lewis the best driver on the grid? :confused: As a team owner you'd have to look at him as a risk to his team mate (he crashed into Button in rather inexcusable circumstances), he mouths off and if we're honest, Vettel and Alonso are easily his equals. On a good day Webber and Button are there with him too.

I want to be a Lewis fan, I really do, when he beat Alonso in 2007 I really wanted to like him! But since then his mouth has grown in size, he's been unable to take responsibility for most of the incidents he's caused (fair play for what he did today though) and I could go on if I want.

[Mark]

Mark, I know admitting you are wrong is 'uncool' but admit it, you missed the penalty and you are trying to make out you didn't?

[Daniel]

He's a clear step above Vettel and so is Alonso. I think thats obvious but its also my opinion and I can deliver it without trying to generalise you.
With all due respect you'd have to be absolutely bonkers to think that Hamilton is clearly above Vettel and Alonso. He's a good driver, no doubts about that, but there's a reason why Seb is well on his way to a 2nd title and Hamilton is busy running into other people all to often. Sure part of that reason is the car, but Hamilton has had some great cars also.

[Koz]

I agree, he deserved a harsher penalty for this.

I think he has done enough this season to warrant a race ban, just to teach him a lesson, which he repeatedly seems to miss with his dangerous driving.

[pino]

Guys, keep it clean and don't force me to close this too, or many will be sent on vacations for long time !

[donKey jote]

I agree, He has been endangering other drivers all year :mad:

He's not the messiah, he's a vewy naughty boy ! :mad: :devil: :andrea:

[Robinho]

Penalty was absolutley the correct thing, it was a careless and dangerous, but he didn't hit anyone and didn't take anyone out. He had to spin the car round at some point, in his haste to get going again he says he didn't see Di Resta in time and then apologised on camera and in person, and accepted the penalty was fair.

Far more professional and reasoned Hamilton we saw at the end of the race today.

[Allyc85]

Worst anti Hamilton post ever.....

[The Black Knight]

I'm sorry, but by what standard is Lewis the best driver on the grid? :confused: As a team owner you'd have to look at him as a risk to his team mate (he crashed into Button in rather inexcusable circumstances), he mouths off and if we're honest, Vettel and Alonso are easily his equals. On a good day Webber and Button are there with him too.

I want to be a Lewis fan, I really do, when he beat Alonso in 2007 I really wanted to like him! But since then his mouth has grown in size, he's been unable to take responsibility for most of the incidents he's caused (fair play for what he did today though) and I could go on if I want.

I guarantee you that any team owner on the grid would be happy to have Hamilton on board. He beat Alonso as a rookie. And make up any excuse that you like but they both had the same equipment throughout the entire year. Alonso admitted that himself. Hamilton is consistent, quick and rarely makes mistakes. I do not rate Vettel to be as good as Hamilton. I'd rather have somone that can overtake when the opportunity arises. He is an aggressive racer. The coming together with his teammate in Canada was a racing incident as ruled by the stewards. Vettel is great when leading out front but as shown today he can't cut it when he's under pressure from the big boys. He showed the same last week. He couldn't even overtake Felipe, he had to do it in the pitstop. There are pros and cons for both drivers but I put Hamilton a cut above him any day. Button is one of the best drivers on the grid and on most days Button leaves him eat his dust.

[Daniel]

I guarantee you that any team owner on the grid would be happy to have Hamilton on board. He beat Alonso as a rookie. And make up any excuse that you like but they both had the same equipment throughout the entire year. Alonso admitted that himself. Hamilton is consistent, quick and rarely makes mistakes. I do not rate Vettel to be as good as Hamilton. I'd rather have somone that can overtake when the opportunity arises. He is an aggressive racer. The coming together with his teammate in Canada was a racing incident as ruled by the stewards. Vettel is great when leading out front but as shown today he can't cut it when he's under pressure from the big boys. He showed the same last week. He couldn't even overtake Felipe, he had to do it in the pitstop. There are pros and cons for both drivers but I put Hamilton a cut above him any day. Button is one of the best drivers on the grid and on most days Button leaves him eat his dust.

Rarely makes mistakes? :confused: Are we talking about the same Lewis Hamilton here? :confused:

[BDunnell]

I guarantee you that any team owner on the grid would be happy to have Hamilton on board. He beat Alonso as a rookie.

I did agree with Nigel Roebuck's remarks in the latest Motor Sport when he wrote that possibly Hamilton has never been as consistently impressive as he was in his very first season.

[Daniel]

I did agree with Nigel Roebuck's remarks in the latest Motor Sport when he wrote that possibly Hamilton has never been as consistently impressive as he was in his very first season.

I tend to agree somewhat. He has never really been as impressive as he was in that first season.....

[airshifter]

I like Hamilton for his style. He's a racer, not someone who is going to sit back and settle for a crap postion. Much like Montoya, he often makes poor judgement while racing, but his actual skill level is up there with the best of the best. I honestly think he drove the best race today and suffered mostly due to him and the team rolling the dice when they thought the rain would stay.

That being said, he made a boneheaded move after the spin and deserved his penalty. I'm not sure if it was lack of seeing the other cars, the red mist of just trying to stay ahead of Jenson, or just pure stupidity. But he made the move and paid a penalty that IMO was fair.

[Bagwan]

Oh look, the anti-Hamilton cavilary has arrived. You might be sick to death of this crap but I'm sick to death of silly supporters like yourself giving the one real racer on the grid a hard time for trying to race. It's people like you that are ruining the sport. If you don't like a bit of wheel to wheel action then then going watch Tennis or something. Stop poisoning F1 with your nonsense.

F1 is motorracing and motorracing is dangerous. I can't help but laugh when people come along and say he is putting other drivers lives at risk on track. THEY put THEIR lives at risk everytime they jump in the cockpit. They do this knowingly. If you think Hamilton bad then go back and watch some real racing that went on in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Then tucktail and run under your bed, pee your pants and leave F1 for the real men to race in.

So , the majority of my post was criticizing people calling people names , and the part you focus on is the part where I have an opinion against your favourite driver ?
You then proceed to call me names , say I am ruining the sport , and call my posting nonsense .
Then you tell me to leave .


I've been here for roughly ten years , and have rarely met someone as rude as yourself .

In fact , I've often argued vehemently with our mods many times when various posters considered extremely obnoxious by most , to keep them from being banned .




I have a different view of this incident to yours .

You'll just have to accept that , unless you can convince me otherwise .
Calling me names won't work .

[Bagwan]

What a load of cobblers.

You neglect to reference Billy suggesting that, perhaps, another poster is a paedophile, attempting to lure young boys. :rolleyes:


Get a life, or get outta here. :down:


Yes , I do neglect to reference that because those two having a long running string of insults going back and forth all the time that you have obviously failed to notice .

[donKey jote]

Yes , I do neglect to reference that because those two having a long running string of insults going back and forth all the time that you have obviously failed to notice .
Not my fault his missus left him :andrea:

[CNR]

i can not believe that some think that it did not deserve a drivethru

[Hawkmoon]

I have no problem with the penalty as he really shouldn't have spun the car in the face on on-coming traffic. He was penalised, admitted his mistake and apologised to the guy he forced off. End of story.

As for Hamiltons' place in the hierarchy, he's equal at the top with Alonso in my opinion. Hamilton's a better qualifyer but Alonso's a better racer. Hamilton's a better overtaker but Alonso gets more out of his car more often. None of those traits are absolute by the way. On any given day Alonso will qualify better and pass more people and Hamilton will drag his car beyond where it has any right to be. McLaren missed a golden opportunity to have a driver partnership for the ages when they couldn't get the pair of them to play nice. Mind you, that may have been an impossible task.

As for Vettel, he's still a work in progress. He clearly has problems when he isn't racing from the front but when he is in front, it's usually all over for the rest of them. Over a single lap I think he's just as quick, if not slightly quicker, than Hamilton but has a ways to go to equal the racecraft of both Hamilton and Alonso.

There's daylight between those three and the rest.

[Jag_Warrior]

Say... do we get to vote on the biggest Donkey Thread at the end of the season? Cause I think I know which one I'm going to choose. :)

[F1boat]

So , the majority of my post was criticizing people calling people names , and the part you focus on is the part where I have an opinion against your favourite driver ?


+1. This is a forum and fans should be allowed to support or criticize the drivers. I personally think that Hamilton is a very good driver, in the current Top3, maybe, but I disapprove of his way too aggressive style - it's like on track bullying.

[ArrowsFA1]

What a load of fuss over nothing.

Oh no, wait. It's Lewis Hamilton. In that case this was a dumb, dangerous and thoughtless spin turn which put the lives of other drivers at risk and he should be kicked out of the sport for life :rolleyes:

[CaptainRaiden]

So, what I gather from this thread is that people aren't happy that Lewis was given a drive-through penalty AND apologized for what he did to Di Resta (shock, horror). No, there must be something more done to teach him a lesson. Hmm....

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/thinking-023.GIF

This man clearly isn't repentant enough. Probably his haters want him to get on his knees and beg for forgiveness:

eKnl7gxwoKA


Also, Di Resta doesn't seem to have any problem with it, yet the fans are throwing stupid hissy-fits. He has no allegiances with Mclaren or to Lewis.

m6fNqGfSFKg

[Hawkmoon]

So, what I gather from this thread is that people aren't happy that Lewis was given a drive-through penalty AND apologized for what he did to Di Resta (shock, horror). No, there must be something more done to teach him a lesson. Hmm....

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/thinking-023.GIF

This man clearly isn't repentant enough. Probably his haters want him to get on his knees and beg for forgiveness:



Also, Di Resta doesn't seem to have any problem with it, yet the fans are throwing stupid hissy-fits. He has no allegiances with Mclaren or to Lewis.


While I agree with you DiResta does have a link to Lewis by way of being managed by Hamilton's father and to McLaren through Mercedes-Benz. Di Resta has tested for McLaren. Your point stands though.

[CaptainRaiden]

While I agree with you DiResta does have a link to Lewis by way of being managed by Hamilton's father and to McLaren through Mercedes-Benz. Di Resta has tested for McLaren. Your point stands though.

So has Heidfeld in the past. I don't think Di Resta has any links with them anymore. You're right about the Anthony Hamilton part though, I forgot about that. And I agree with Di Resta, that even though they were very close, he didn't lose any sizeable amount of time by going off track.

[555-04Q2]

You would have thought that after the cr@p he got into in OZ, he would have refrained from "gooning" (if that was the term) :p :

I find his penalty rediculous :down:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Why did Trulli not get a penalty for rejoining the track dangerously in front of Vettel in practice?

[markabilly]

Mark, I know admitting you are wrong is 'uncool' but admit it, you missed the penalty and you are trying to make out you didn't?

Okay, I admit you were wrong and you missed the penalty.

Happy now?


Actually, when I started creating the OP, no one on Speed Channel had said anything, and even after the penalty, they were saying, maybe it was due to speeding in the pitlane or maybe the spin move.

One must also consider not merely the incident, but the history to determine a proper penalty, and this one was a joke.

[markabilly]

Oh no, wait. It's Lewis Hamilton. In that case this was a dumb, dangerous and thoughtless spin turn which put the lives of other drivers at risk and he should be kicked out of the sport for life :rolleyes:

You got it partially right. One race ban would be enough

with traffic clearly in view, he does not hold steady, nearly hits a lotus, then starts spinning right about what appears to a williams is passing, then completes his spin move right in front of di resta, who swerves to the grass, and Button tries to figure out how to get by with out a crash, by going to the left, as Hamilton is moving slowly in the racing line----

Dumb and dangerous.

[Mark]

Okay, I admit you were wrong and you missed the penalty.

Happy now?


Actually, when I started creating the OP, no one on Speed Channel had said anything, and even after the penalty, they were saying, maybe it was due to speeding in the pitlane or maybe the spin move.

One must also consider not merely the incident, but the history to determine a proper penalty, and this one was a joke.

Each infraction must be considered in isolation unless a suspended sentance applies.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

And Massa did not have the history that Hamilton has had this year. One must also consider not merely the incident, but the history to determine a proper penalty, and this one was a joke.

I disagree strongly here. The history of the driver shouldn't be taken into account at all. Each incident should be looked at individually to avoid any bias.

Penalty points should be used against the drivers to penalise repeat offenders.

[markabilly]

Each infraction must be considered in isolation unless a suspended sentance applies.

no it should not.

[markabilly]

Not my fault his missus left him :andrea:

you stole her by telling her you would let her keep more of those quarters --

hope u two sweeties are happy in that fancy mobile home

[airshifter]

Okay, I admit you were wrong and you missed the penalty.

Happy now?


Actually, when I started creating the OP, no one on Speed Channel had said anything, and even after the penalty, they were saying, maybe it was due to speeding in the pitlane or maybe the spin move.

One must also consider not merely the incident, but the history to determine a proper penalty, and this one was a joke.

The SpeedTV commentators clarified the penalty shortly after it was served IIRC. When it first flashed up on the screens they said it was probably due to pit lane speeding, which was speculation on their part since he had just come out of the pits. In either case I knew why he served the penalty well before race end.

As for history, I've seen a history of Lewis haters trying to bash him for his every move.

[markabilly]

Wh
Get a life, or get outta here. :down:

maybe you should lighten up on making fun of race and calling others racists, or follow your own advice.

[markabilly]

The SpeedTV commentators clarified the penalty shortly after it was served IIRC. When it first flashed up on the screens they said it was probably due to pit lane speeding, which was speculation on their part since he had just come out of the pits. In either case I knew why he served the penalty well before race end.



.

So did I. Aftr I posted. And for of course, if all you can say is hater, then you have said nothing at all.

[Bagwan]

What a load of fuss over nothing.

Oh no, wait. It's Lewis Hamilton. In that case this was a dumb, dangerous and thoughtless spin turn which put the lives of other drivers at risk and he should be kicked out of the sport for life :rolleyes:

Ah yes , you're playing the "WAAAAH , I always get picked on !" card .

Lewis is a great driver .
But , he's a great driver who makes some pretty scary decisions in the heat of the moment .

He did a spin amongst a bunch of other guys , and got away with it this time , but for a drive-through .
Think about what you'd say if he wasn't so lucky to have DiResta able to swerve for him .
What if he'd caused a big brou-ha-ha at the exit of that chicane ?

There were five or so cars in close proximity to the lad there . The potential for mayhem was rather intense .

In that interview , he says he doesn't know why he was penalized . He says it's to be expected .
He's all smiley , despite having just finished off the podium in fourth because he was punished for something unknown .

Does this sound like the Lewis we know ?

Then , Paul says he hasn't a problem , but might have if he was losing points as a result . So , he really does have a problem with it .


I'm just glad he got any sort of penalty for it because it was a very scary move , and one that should not be repeated .

As well as saying sorry , perhaps he should thank Paul for having the skill to miss him .

[The Black Knight]

So , the majority of my post was criticizing people calling people names , and the part you focus on is the part where I have an opinion against your favourite driver ?
You then proceed to call me names , say I am ruining the sport , and call my posting nonsense .
Then you tell me to leave .


I've been here for roughly ten years , and have rarely met someone as rude as yourself .

In fact , I've often argued vehemently with our mods many times when various posters considered extremely obnoxious by most , to keep them from being banned .




I have a different view of this incident to yours .

You'll just have to accept that , unless you can convince me otherwise .
Calling me names won't work .

People like you are ruining the sport, boy. It is slowly becoming a nanny sport because of over stewarding and critics like you trying to criticise drivers at any instance. In a way, this is all down to the information age. Until the internet arrived which gave people like you a platform on which to announce your PC view on sport, the FIA, Stewards and drivers simply didn't have to take note. They could get on with their job and not be pressurised by likes of you that expect every driver with adrenaline rushing through their body to be able to remember every little rule in the book mid race. People like you, my dear man, are a plague on sport and the world.

You're welcome to your view of course. I'm going to continue posting. If you have a problem with the way I post, feel free to go to the Mods. They can speak to me about it if they have an issue.

Regards your view on this incident, you're wrong. Hamilton didn't see DiResta. No driver in their right mind would spin their car into the path of another intentionally. He has apologied. Do you want him to grow eyes on the back of his head? Perhaps have a rear and side view camera on the car with a mini tv screen in the cockpit so he can fully check every angle? That's the only way yesterday could have been avoided. This is just another attempt by you to bash a genuinely great driver at every opportunity you get.

[Bagwan]

Each infraction must be considered in isolation unless a suspended sentance applies.

I agree with this .

First level of infraction gets a reprimand . Three reprimands gets more penalty .
Second level gets you penalty , and severity determines extent .

That's the face of it .

But , we must imagine that everyone present knows the history of each of the drivers , except , perhaps , the newest recruits , so the past will affect the penalty , whether it's written into the book or not .
And , in the driver debriefs in front of stewards , attitude is essential to keeping penalties small .

[Bagwan]

People like you are ruining the sport, boy. It is slowly becoming a nanny sport because of over stewarding and critics like you trying to criticise drivers at any instance. In a way, this is all down to the information age. Until the internet arrived which gave people like you a platform on which to announce your PC view on sport, the FIA, Stewards and drivers simply didn't have to take note. They could get on with their job and not be pressurised by likes of you that expect every driver with adrenaline rushing through their body to be able to remember every little rule in the book mid race. People like you, my dear man, are a plague on sport and the world.

You're welcome to your view of course. I'm going to continue posting. If you have a problem with the way I post, feel free to go to the Mods. They can speak to me about it if they have an issue.

Regards your view on this incident, you're wrong. Hamilton didn't see DiResta. No driver in their right mind would spin their car into the path of another intentionally. He has apologied. Do you want him to grow eyes on the back of his head? Perhaps have a rear and side view camera on the car with a mini tv screen in the cockpit so he can fully check every angle? That's the only way yesterday could have been avoided. This is just another attempt by you to bash a genuinely great driver at every opportunity you get.

First , let me say sorry for calling you rude .

You are passionate about your favourite driver , and defend him with fervour .

Hamilton should have known he had a pack of cars right behind him in the first place .

"No driver in their right mind would spin their car into the path of another intentionally ."
The key part of this statement is the phrase is "in thier right mind" .


At that point , Lewis was under huge pressure trying to hold on to the lead .
He knew , especially with guys close behind , that he had to be fast , or wait for them to go by before spinning it back around .

Simply , he made the wrong decision in the heat of the moment .

It could happen to any driver out there , but it seems like it happens to Lewis a lot .

And , whether you like to believe it or not , I would criticize any driver in this situation .

Now , please excuse me while I go and ruin the sport .
Have a nice day .

[markabilly]

I agree with this .

First level of infraction gets a reprimand . Three reprimands gets more penalty .
Second level gets you penalty , and severity determines extent .

That's the face of it .

But , we must imagine that everyone present knows the history of each of the drivers , except , perhaps , the newest recruits , so the past will affect the penalty , whether it's written into the book or not .
And , in the driver debriefs in front of stewards , attitude is essential to keeping penalties small .


Certainly the points should already be there.
Howevrr, when Schuie bumped JV in the title
fight, Schuie was not only out of the race and lost the WDC, he lost all of his points for the season.

Clearly a penalty based on "past performances".

If this had been the only time that hamilton had been out of line for this season, that would be one thing. But it was not.

[markabilly]

People like you are ruining the sport, boy. It is slowly becoming a nanny sport because of over stewarding and critics like you trying to criticise drivers at any instance. In a way, this is all down to the information age. Until the internet arrived which gave people like you a platform on which to announce your PC view on sport, the FIA, Stewards and drivers simply didn't have to take note. They could get on with their job and not be pressurised by likes of you that expect every driver with adrenaline rushing through their body to be able to remember every little rule in the book mid race. People like you, my dear man, are a plague on sport and the world.

You're welcome to your view of course. I'm going to continue posting. If you have a problem with the way I post, feel free to go to the Mods. They can speak to me about it if they have an issue.

Regards your view on this incident, you're wrong. Hamilton didn't see DiResta. No driver in their right mind would spin their car into the path of another intentionally. He has apologied. Do you want him to grow eyes on the back of his head? Perhaps have a rear and side view camera on the car with a mini tv screen in the cockpit so he can fully check every angle? That's the only way yesterday could have been avoided. This is just another attempt by you to bash a genuinely great driver at every opportunity you get.


No need for new eyes. if you had bothered to look, he was facing backwards and then sideways. OTH, if the fact was true that he could not see, then he had no right to be blindly spinning his car around in the racing line.

Duh

As to your other comments, whatever :rolleyes:

[Bagwan]

Certainly the points should already be there.
Howevrr, when Schuie bumped JV in the title
fight, Schuie was not only out of the race and lost the WDC, he lost all of his points for the season.

Clearly a penalty based on "past performances".

If this had been the only time that hamilton had been out of line for this season, that would be one thing. But it was not.

No , Billy , ma man , the red shoe said it was his intent , with "deliberate , but instinctual" in his interview with the stewards .
Lewis chose the pie-eyed "what did I do wrong" line .

[Bagwan]

No need for new eyes. if you had bothered to look, he was facing backwards and then sideways. OTH, if the fact was true that he could not see, then he had no right to be blindly spinning his car around in the racing line.

Duh

As to your other comments, whatever :rolleyes:


There's a good point .

[Bagwan]

Whitmarsh is relieved :
“He stayed calm, came back, overtook two cars, came fourth, and got some valuable points. He’s conducted himself very well after the race. He’s been probed provocatively by various members of the media, who wanted some reaction about his penalty, but I think he stayed calm. He’s been mentally strong this weekend and just done a fantastic job.”

This suggests he doesn't normally stay calm , mid-race , doesn't normally conduct himself well in interviews , and isn't normally mentally strong .
And , Martin knows it .

[The Black Knight]

First , let me say sorry for calling you rude .

You are passionate about your favourite driver , and defend him with fervour .

Hamilton should have known he had a pack of cars right behind him in the first place .

"No driver in their right mind would spin their car into the path of another intentionally ."
The key part of this statement is the phrase is "in thier right mind" .


At that point , Lewis was under huge pressure trying to hold on to the lead .
He knew , especially with guys close behind , that he had to be fast , or wait for them to go by before spinning it back around .

Simply , he made the wrong decision in the heat of the moment .

It could happen to any driver out there , but it seems like it happens to Lewis a lot .

And , whether you like to believe it or not , I would criticize any driver in this situation .

Now , please excuse me while I go and ruin the sport .
Have a nice day .

I have no doubt you will. And no matter what happens, I'm sure people like you will continue to be the reason the sport becomes stale and why drivers will spout PR bull at each press conference and interview. God forbid they actually give an actual real opinion.

You're right that it could happen to any driver out there. Does that mean he deserves to be banned for a race? Absolutely not. It's even ridiculous to suggest such a thing.

[Dave B]

This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read! :laugh:

[ArrowsFA1]

Ah yes , you're playing the "WAAAAH , I always get picked on !" card .
No, I'm expressing sarcism in the light of,what I see as, a complete overreaction on the part of some here.

IMHO Hamilton did what any driver would have done, and that was to try to get out of that vulnerable position asap. He was square on to approaching traffic at the exit of a chicane with cars heading his way. He'd just made an error which he was probably pissed about, and was watching a possible (likely) victory disappear. Yellow flags warned approaching cars of the incident and he was in clear view of those cars. This wasn't a scary or dangerous situation, and barely warranted a penalty regardless of the driver involved.

It was the kind of thing that tv commentary would probably have passed of with a "woops!!" comment a few years ago, but now people cry "penalty" and the stewards oblige.

[Bagwan]

I have no doubt you will. And no matter what happens, I'm sure people like you will continue to be the reason the sport becomes stale and why drivers will spout PR bull at each press conference and interview. God forbid they actually give an actual real opinion.

You're right that it could happen to any driver out there. Does that mean he deserves to be banned for a race? Absolutely not. It's even ridiculous to suggest such a thing.

My favourite driver is Jacques , so I am not so sure what you mean by my not liking drivers to speak out .

I am also not sure why you are saying that I want him banned for a race . I suggested nothing of the sort .

[Bagwan]

Thats ill founded and absolute assumptive rubbish and you know it.

We have seen instances in the past like Monaco this year where Lewis has handled himself badly and Martin's words in that interview suggest he is defending a driver that has come under criticism in the past. Unless you are a mind reader I think you are basing your assumption on nothing other than bias to which I know you are often keen to point out that you don't support any team or driver but your posts often show something very different Bagwan of late. Martin makes no comparison to how Lewis usually behaves and your assumption that in private he is normally mentally weak I feel is completely false. You are entitled to your opinion like the rest of us, but putting your opinion forward like it is a fact is counterproductive in this type of debate. You know how passionate some of his fans are on here as you have previously mentioned and I think you were after a reaction with that comment. Poor form.. :down:

To a certain degree , you are right that I knew a reaction was forthcoming , but Whitmarshes comments do go directly to my point .

He felt the need to essentially praise his driver in this interview , for getting it right in the interview , and in the race .
After his spin , when normally he would not have been calm , he never put a foot wrong , is what Martin is saying .

I don't count myself clever to figure that this refers to previous situations when he didn't act suchly .

"your assumption that in private he is normally mentally weak" is not what I was saying at all , or what Martin was saying either .

What he said was : “He stayed calm, came back, overtook two cars, came fourth, and got some valuable points."
and : " He’s been mentally strong this weekend and just done a fantastic job.”

This clearly implies that , in the past , he has not been so calm in such pressured circumstance .
I believe the "mentally strong" reference , being it mentions "this weekend" refers to both his dealings with the press , and his work to come back for those "valuable points" .


It has to be said , that Lewis was much more calm in the interview than was expected , and kudos to him for that .
However , I do have a hard time imagining him really not knowing why he was punished .

Don't you find that hard to understand ?

He also , as Martin said , seemed to get his head back into it quickly , and salvage some of those points , so good on him for that as well .

[Bagwan]

No, I'm expressing sarcism in the light of,what I see as, a complete overreaction on the part of some here.

IMHO Hamilton did what any driver would have done, and that was to try to get out of that vulnerable position asap. He was square on to approaching traffic at the exit of a chicane with cars heading his way. He'd just made an error which he was probably pissed about, and was watching a possible (likely) victory disappear. Yellow flags warned approaching cars of the incident and he was in clear view of those cars. This wasn't a scary or dangerous situation, and barely warranted a penalty regardless of the driver involved.

It was the kind of thing that tv commentary would probably have passed of with a "woops!!" comment a few years ago, but now people cry "penalty" and the stewards oblige.

It was a "vulnerable position" , but "wasn't a scary or dangerous situation" ?

Were there yellow flags ?

If he was "in clear view of those cars" , how come he couldn't see them when "He was square on to approaching traffic..." .


The potential for a crash was pretty high , and he's lucky he has some good drivers around him .



What would you guys have said if it had caused a pile-up ?

[SGWilko]

Yes , I do neglect to reference that because those two having a long running string of insults going back and forth all the time that you have obviously failed to notice .

Oh, so that's OK then is it? A tad hypocrytical, no?

[Bagwan]

Oh, so that's OK then is it? A tad hypocrytical, no?

No , but more than a tad irrelevent to this conversation .

[Bagwan]

We've obviously interpreted it differently.

Anyway back to the incident itself....
Watching the race again this afternoon and this incident in particular its obvious evasive action was required of Lewis after his car car to a stop sideways on the track. The back end of his car was so close to the edge of the track as it stood, an oncoming car would have had to have driven over part of the grass had he stayed where he was. The Lotus slowed right down in anticipation of this and made it through safely as Lewis attempted his spin. Perhaps Lewis would have been wiser to have simply driven forwards to the inside of the track at this point rather than spin to rejoin? It was a pressured situation and its fine for us to judge but he was losing the lead and was in the middle of an incident he hadn't anticipated. Most armchair experts would have sat there and settled for 10th place no doubt, but I think Lewis was more quick thinking rather than experiencing this famous 'Red Mist' b*ll*cks that we love to see levelled as an explanation for a variety of ill favoured cock ups. As I said previously a penalty was harsh IMHO and it seems it had no bearing on anyone else's race other than for Lewis. :)

DiResta mentioned he might have felt aggrieved , had there been points at stake .

Which brings me back to that question , of whether those who feel that Lewis was treated harshly would feel differently if there had been an incident caused by Lewis's move .
I am wondering if it was OK merely because he was able to pull it off without an incident occurring .

If something had happened , would it have so OK ?

[SGWilko]

DiResta mentioned he might have felt aggrieved , had there been points at stake .

Which brings me back to that question , of whether those who feel that Lewis was treated harshly would feel differently if there had been an incident caused by Lewis's move .
I am wondering if it was OK merely because he was able to pull it off without an incident occurring .

If something had happened , would it have so OK ?

If Di Resta had t-boned the McLaren because it remained in the centre of the track, what then?

[SGWilko]

No , but more than a tad irrelevent to this conversation .

Very relevant, you say don't call names, except for the name calling that you are ok with..........

[Daniel]

People like you are ruining the sport, boy. It is slowly becoming a nanny sport because of over stewarding and critics like you trying to criticise drivers at any instance. In a way, this is all down to the information age. Until the internet arrived which gave people like you a platform on which to announce your PC view on sport, the FIA, Stewards and drivers simply didn't have to take note. They could get on with their job and not be pressurised by likes of you that expect every driver with adrenaline rushing through their body to be able to remember every little rule in the book mid race. People like you, my dear man, are a plague on sport and the world.

Wow, what strong and extremely rude words......

Whilst I agree that in this case Lewis did not see di Resta and it was probably just a genuine mistake, why is it always Lewis that's getting involved in this incidents? You say he's a hard racer with a drivers instinct, I say that he's a quick driver who has had self belief drilled into him from a young age and he acts and because he acts he feels that the way he acts is correct. Personally I feel that other drivers would have looked rather than just assuming that everything was going to be OK.

[Daniel]

If Di Resta had t-boned the McLaren because it remained in the centre of the track, what then?

That was unlikely to have happened. The unwritten rule is that the driver who has spun is to stay still till he knows he is safe to move, that is unless the corner is unsighted (it's not) and the driver in the stationary car risks a certain accident by staying still.

[BDunnell]

Whilst I agree that in this case Lewis did not see di Resta and it was probably just a genuine mistake, why is it always Lewis that's getting involved in this incidents? You say he's a hard racer with a drivers instinct, I say that he's a quick driver who has had self belief drilled into him from a young age and he acts and because he acts he feels that the way he acts is correct. Personally I feel that other drivers would have looked rather than just assuming that everything was going to be OK.

Amongst those also competing today, I can think of one exception...

[Daniel]

It was a "vulnerable position" , but "wasn't a scary or dangerous situation" ?

Were there yellow flags ?

If he was "in clear view of those cars" , how come he couldn't see them when "He was square on to approaching traffic..." .


The potential for a crash was pretty high , and he's lucky he has some good drivers around him .



What would you guys have said if it had caused a pile-up ?

He didn't so obviously it's OK old chap. Seems some people are happy to criticise someone like Michael when he pushes Rubens and doesn't cause an accident and then they take issue when you do it to their favourite driver :confused:

[Daniel]

Amongst those also competing today, I can think of one exception...

Who? And does it make Lewis' actions any different :)

[Daniel]

hindsight is a great thing.

What's even better is using your brain at the time :)

[Daniel]

What if's eh?

So how do you explain the condemnation of Michael's accidents in regards to Rubens which also didn't cause an accident? If I were bothered I'd probably dig up posts from yourself and all the other Lewis fans in this thread which criticise Michael heavily.

[Daniel]

Can I borrow that fishing rod after you?
Making a comparison with Schumacher pushing Ruben's towards a wall at highspeed (190mph) and Lewis spinning his car in an acceleration (50mph+) zone is not the same thing. Lewis had no intention or risking his race and that of Paul's and it was not a deliberate move to possibly end someones race. You are intelligent enough to draw that conclusion I would hope.

Oh come on, don't accuse me of trolling......

You bring speed into it without considering that a side vs front on impact is far more dangerous than a side to side hit as Lewis demonstrated against his own team mate in Canada. I'm sorry but you Lewis fans are willing to make an excuse for every single one of his accidents, it's beyond ridiculous.

[Daniel]

I've become increasingly tired of your posts lately Daniel and I used to have a laugh with you on here which I'm finding hard to do these days. If its not telling people their opinions are stupid, its attacking groups of posters who don't agree with you. Not my problem anymore.

Is a group of Lewis fans defending their favourite driver any different to someone like you who finds fault with everything he does whether its good or not? I'm yet to see you give any worthy credit without undermining it with a dig to be honest. I find you sit on a threads and disagree with the majority simply for effect, and fools like me bite like I did in your highly hypocritical 'anti-trolling thread' which was silly in hindsight.

Night night everyone.

Henners accuses Daniel of trolling - OK
Daniel accuses someone else of trolling - not OK

Sorry Henners, but I'm not disagreeing for the sake of it, you can go back early to the start of this thread and see that I didn't think the incident was a huge deal, but as usual the anti-anti-Lewis cavalry came along and tried to paint him as a saint and I'm sorry, but that's just not true.

[PSfan]

I finally dloaded the race to re-watch this incident and it really saddens me to say this, but I think the majority of IRL drivers seem to have more common sense then our Lewis Hamilton does. After re watching the replay, the smart thing to do was move forward enough to get that Macs arse end off the racing line while facing incoming traffic, and then wait for a safe moment to spin around, I've seen that done thousands of times, but that seems like a difficult concept for Lewis.

Now I`m still flip floppy on whether it was deserving of a penalty, but if the Stewards deemed it was dangerous enough for one, I would have preferred something a little harsher then a simple drive through. It also goes with my argument that F1 should have permanent stewards for the season, and they should have a larger selection of penalties to dish out.

[The Black Knight]

Wow, what strong and extremely rude words......

Whilst I agree that in this case Lewis did not see di Resta and it was probably just a genuine mistake, why is it always Lewis that's getting involved in this incidents? You say he's a hard racer with a drivers instinct, I say that he's a quick driver who has had self belief drilled into him from a young age and he acts and because he acts he feels that the way he acts is correct. Personally I feel that other drivers would have looked rather than just assuming that everything was going to be OK.

I don't know why it's always Lewis that gets involved in these incidents. Personally, I feel he's an easy target because he is so aggressive. If it were another driver I doubt as much noise would be made over it. I also feel that the Nurburgring was the first time all year where his head was in the correct place, the place where it should be every race. He has too much PR work to do for a guy that really has to go for the title. He is very marketable. This could be his undoing. For a driver to only get 2 days to train between any race is simply not good enough. I agree that Lewis has not been as impressive since his first year in F1 but he hasn't been far off either. The reason I believe for that is becuase he doesn't get the time to train and put his head in the right place anymore, whereas in 2007 he was unknown and was simply able to concentrate on his preparation for each race. I'd love to know Lewis PR schedule Vs say Seb's. I'd imagine Lewis is much fuller and Seb gets a lot more preparation time. Michael Schumacher won 7 WDC's because he trained and concentrated on his driving. Yes, he had PR work but it was limited. Last year was an extremely strong year for Lewis. I felt it was the best he drove since 2007. I also feel how well he drove in 2009 with the heap of crap car he had is overlooked too often myself. To summarise, 2007 was probably his best year alright but 2008, 2009 and 2010 were pretty damn good and I doubt many other drivers on the grid could have won two races in the 2009 McLaren.

Regards Hungary, yes, he should not have spun his car around where he was. Was it a punishable incident? Yes. Is it deserving of a harsher sentence than a drive through? No. You and I both agree on that from what I can tell though.

[The Black Knight]

My favourite driver is Jacques , so I am not so sure what you mean by my not liking drivers to speak out .

I am also not sure why you are saying that I want him banned for a race . I suggested nothing of the sort .

Ok, well then to quote yourself, you wrote: "Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through ." What would you expect he be punished with?

[Mia 01]

He had a few seconds to think about the move, a very long time in F1, and pulled it on.

Wrong Lewis.

[The Black Knight]

Lewis Hamilton looks forward to break | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/56008.html)

Just as I wrote about Lewis head being in the correct place, here is an article where he says he looks forward to getting his head in the right place over the winter break.

[ArrowsFA1]

why is it always Lewis that's getting involved in this incidents?
He's clearly not alone in "getting involved" in incidents.
Formula*1 Penalties - Viva F1 (http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties.php)

Rubens Barrichello, Fernando Alonso, Sergio Perez, Paul di Resta, Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Buemi have all been penalised for causing collisions so far this year.

I do think that 1) Hamilton is singled out by some for excessive criticism and 2) drivers generally are being penalised for comparatively inoccuous incidents. If we want to see drivers race then we have to accept that sometimes there may be unintentional contact. Clearly where there is intent action should be taken.

[The Black Knight]

He's clearly not alone in "getting involved" in incidents.
Formula 1 Penalties - Viva F1 (http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties.php)

Rubens Barrichello, Fernando Alonso, Sergio Perez, Paul di Resta, Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Buemi have all been penalised for causing collisions so far this year.

I do think that 1) Hamilton is singled out by some for excessive criticism and 2) drivers generally are being penalised for comparatively inoccuous incidents. If we want to see drivers race then we have to accept that sometimes there may be unintentional contact. Clearly where there is intent action should be taken.

He is being singled out because he is racing at the front. The truth is if Trulli or Glock did this neither of us would be in any way bothered about it. As Schumacher and Senna said, if you look back through the entire field you'll see other incidents, it's just because we're racing at the front that people make it a talking point.

[52Paddy]

He is being singled out because he is racing at the front. The truth is if Trulli or Glock did this neither of us would be in any way bothered about it. As Schumacher and Senna said, if you look back through the entire field you'll see other incidents, it's just because we're racing at the front that people make it a talking point.

Speaking for myself here, this doesn't apply whatsoever. Since I don't wholly support or hate any driver/team, you won't see me doing the bashing around here. However, if some driver does something that I feel is out of order, I'll vent my views and that doesn't matter if it's Hamilton or if it's D'Ambrosio. I feel strongly that Lewis' move was out of order but if this forum could be filtered from all of the constant bashers and whiners, we might actually have a decent discussion for one. Not ones that end up as slagging matches and result in paranoia amongst some members. Otherwise, I'm just thrown in with the 'basher' crowd because I think he was a bad boy this time out.

[CaptainRaiden]

He's clearly not alone in "getting involved" in incidents.
Formula*1 Penalties - Viva F1 (http://www.vivaf1.com/penalties.php)

Rubens Barrichello, Fernando Alonso, Sergio Perez, Paul di Resta, Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Buemi have all been penalised for causing collisions so far this year.

I do think that 1) Hamilton is singled out by some for excessive criticism and 2) drivers generally are being penalised for comparatively inoccuous incidents. If we want to see drivers race then we have to accept that sometimes there may be unintentional contact. Clearly where there is intent action should be taken.

Also, if you take a look at that list, his only two big ones are at Monaco and Hungary, notoriously tight circuits with next to no room for error. Malaysia was him and Alonso having brain farts. So, then that's "TWO" races out of 11 this season so far where he was "dangerous", and some haters (I find this to be the appropriate tag) are having seizures asking for his head.

Vettel in 2010 made one of the biggest bonehead move of the decade at Turkey 2010, and then almost took Webber out again at Silverstone and banged into Lewis, and then finally took Button out with an equally idiotic move at Spa, Belgium GP. Yet, I didn't see so many haters jump on the bandwagon asking for race bans. Why this much acid for Lewis?

I think it's time for these haters to figure out what problem do they really have with Lewis. Do they hate him because he's actually a great driver, probably the best in the field right now, better than their favorite driver, they know it and they can't stand him because of that? Probably every time he makes a mistake, these people can't wait to gloat.

Or is it something else.... :dozey:

[Jag_Warrior]

Whitmarsh is relieved :
“He stayed calm, came back, overtook two cars, came fourth, and got some valuable points. He’s conducted himself very well after the race. He’s been probed provocatively by various members of the media, who wanted some reaction about his penalty, but I think he stayed calm. He’s been mentally strong this weekend and just done a fantastic job.”

This suggests he doesn't normally stay calm , mid-race , doesn't normally conduct himself well in interviews , and isn't normally mentally strong .
And , Martin knows it .

It suggests no such thing. If he was stating what he believed to be facts, how does that suggest that this is not usually the case? If he'd said, "Lewis was very fast today", would that suggest that Lewis is usually slow? :confused:

[ArrowsFA1]

He is being singled out because he is racing at the front. The truth is if Trulli or Glock did this neither of us would be in any way bothered about it.
A point supported by Jarno Trulli:
"My message is clear: there is only one rulebook and it's the same for everyone: not just for the guys ahead, but also for the people at the back of the grid."
Trulli critical of FIA over Perez incident during Hungarian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93602)

[Robinho]

unless i've read this wrong, I've not seen anyone who, on balance, didn't agree that a penalty was probably fair on this occasion and that Lewis was pretty careless. So waht is everyone arguing about - the massive overreaction calling for bans, more penalties and going over old incidents of both Hamilton and others.

When both his supporters and his not-fans agree he was wrong, he admits he was wrong and apologises, the other other party acceps the apology and says it wasn't a big deal and Hamilton accepts the resultant penalty WTF is everyone fighting about, apart from their own petty unsettled scores with other members, both on the pro and anti side. Get a grip guys, all this screaming is going nowhere and the more entrenched you become the more silly it looks

[wedge]

I finally dloaded the race to re-watch this incident and it really saddens me to say this, but I think the majority of IRL drivers seem to have more common sense then our Lewis Hamilton does. After re watching the replay, the smart thing to do was move forward enough to get that Macs arse end off the racing line while facing incoming traffic, and then wait for a safe moment to spin around, I've seen that done thousands of times, but that seems like a difficult concept for Lewis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQxriSd12Xo#t=4m24

[The Black Knight]

A point supported by Jarno Trulli:
Trulli critical of FIA over Perez incident during Hungarian Grand Prix - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93602)

Ìmagine if Hamilton did that and didn't concede back his position? We'd have a thread of a hundred pages now lol

[The Black Knight]

unless i've read this wrong, I've not seen anyone who, on balance, didn't agree that a penalty was probably fair on this occasion and that Lewis was pretty careless. So waht is everyone arguing about - the massive overreaction calling for bans, more penalties and going over old incidents of both Hamilton and others.

When both his supporters and his not-fans agree he was wrong, he admits he was wrong and apologises, the other other party acceps the apology and says it wasn't a big deal and Hamilton accepts the resultant penalty WTF is everyone fighting about, apart from their own petty unsettled scores with other members, both on the pro and anti side. Get a grip guys, all this screaming is going nowhere and the more entrenched you become the more silly it looks

Pretty much everyone agrees it was just about deserving of a penalty, at least. It's those that were talking about a harsher penalty or race ban that are off their games.

[nigelred5]

Hamilton screwed up, spinning in the damp, then he did what all drivers do spun it and got on with it. He was just as much a hazard sitting in the racing line. I don't know that he saw the oncoming cars, but whatever. Teh whole thread is BS. HE DID get a penalty, sooooo, as usual six pages from the haters........

[Bagwan]

Ok, well then to quote yourself, you wrote: "Driving into traffic , expecting them to react should be punished with far more than a drive-through ." What would you expect he be punished with?

Stop and go .
Number of seconds stopped would be decided by the stewards .

There's not much else you can do during the race .

[wedge]

Hamilton screwed up, spinning in the damp, then he did what all drivers do spun it and got on with it. He was just as much a hazard sitting in the racing line. I don't know that he saw the oncoming cars, but whatever. Teh whole thread is BS. HE DID get a penalty, sooooo, as usual six pages from the haters........

:up:

It's an accetpted evil - if you can call it that, filed under That's Racing. Do what you gotta do and ask questions later.

[The Black Knight]

Stop and go .
Number of seconds stopped would be decided by the stewards .

There's not much else you can do during the race .

Fair enough. The fact that the stewards didn't give him a stop and go suggests to me that they didn't consider it a grave infringement which I believe is in line with what most people's opinions on this subject are.

I feel the stewards were being consistent with their penalty though. The lighter the crime, the lighter the punishment.

[Retro Formula 1]

It does seem a storm in a tea cup. He spun on the damp track, was stuck in the middle and performed a spin on the spot to point in the right direction and clear the danger for other competitors. Paul took avoiding action which was OK and no collision occurred.

It's debatable whether a penalty was justified but most people accept that it was a 50/50 call and aren't too happy. He apologised to Paul after and said he didn't see him.

What's the big problem?

[The Black Knight]

It does seem a storm in a tea cup. He spun on the damp track, was stuck in the middle and performed a spin on the spot to point in the right direction and clear the danger for other competitors. Paul took avoiding action which was OK and no collision occurred.

It's debatable whether a penalty was justified but most people accept that it was a 50/50 call and aren't too happy. He apologised to Paul after and said he didn't see him.

What's the big problem?

The problem is that as soon as Lewis is mentioned some people, instead of seeing Black, they see red. If any of the other top drivers on the grid did what Lewis did on Sunday we'd have all but forgotten about it by now.

[Bagwan]

The problem is that as soon as Lewis is mentioned some people, instead of seeing Black, they see red. If any of the other top drivers on the grid did what Lewis did on Sunday we'd have all but forgotten about it by now.

It's easy to throw a comment out there to try to discount opposing opinions by speculating , isn't it ?

Sorry to disappoint , but anyone out there pulling a move like that will get just as hard a time over it from me .

If any of the other top drivers out there did what Lewis did on Sunday , we'd have all forgotten about it by now , as Lewis fans only see red when he is attacked and will defend him for days .
It kinda works both ways , doesn't it ?


I do understand that you guys don't think what Lewis did was a big deal .
He's a good driver . It took a good driver to pull off that move .

But , in my eyes , the move was dangerous , and he should have stayed stationary while the others ran by , and then performed the same move without others in close proximity .

There are folks here who don't think it was worthy of punishment at all , some who believe the penalty was apt , and those like me who think it should have been harsher .
There is room for all of us .

[Robinho]

i only scanned through some of the pages but I didn't see anyone say that there should have been no penalty, only some who said it was close call and on balance a penalty was probably deserved.

[The Black Knight]

It's easy to throw a comment out there to try to discount opposing opinions by speculating , isn't it ?

Sorry to disappoint , but anyone out there pulling a move like that will get just as hard a time over it from me .

If any of the other top drivers out there did what Lewis did on Sunday , we'd have all forgotten about it by now , as Lewis fans only see red when he is attacked and will defend him for days .
It kinda works both ways , doesn't it ?


I do understand that you guys don't think what Lewis did was a big deal .
He's a good driver . It took a good driver to pull off that move .

But , in my eyes , the move was dangerous , and he should have stayed stationary while the others ran by , and then performed the same move without others in close proximity .

There are folks here who don't think it was worthy of punishment at all , some who believe the penalty was apt , and those like me who think it should have been harsher .
There is room for all of us .

You may indeed be one of the few that would actually criticise any other driver for the same move but, since I can only ever remember seeing you criticise Lewis, I'll not buy into that 100%, just yet.

I don't see a "Why no penalty for Perez pass on Trulli?" thread. Do you?

That was far worse an incident and a total display of cheating by Perez. I can only imagine the uproar from members here if Lewis did that.

[The Black Knight]

i only scanned through some of the pages but I didn't see anyone say that there should have been no penalty, only some who said it was close call and on balance a penalty was probably deserved.

Well, if you read through the thread, you'll see some were calling for a race ban for Lewis which, obviously, is ridiculous. For such a non event in a race some forum members sure would like to give out race bans lightly. In reality, it's simply because it's Lewis.

[Bagwan]

You may indeed be one of the few that would actually criticise any other driver for the same move but, since I can only ever remember seeing you criticise Lewis, I'll not buy into that 100%, just yet.

I don't see a "Why no penalty for Perez pass on Trulli?" thread. Do you?

That was far worse an incident and a total display of cheating by Perez. I can only imagine the uproar from members here if Lewis did that.

Perhaps there should be a Trulli/Perez thread .
You should start one , if you think it's far worse .


Maybe it was cheating , but was it dangerous ? In my opinion , no .

I'll keep my opinion on Perez for your thread .

[Bagwan]

i only scanned through some of the pages but I didn't see anyone say that there should have been no penalty, only some who said it was close call and on balance a penalty was probably deserved.

Just three posts back , Knockie said "It's debatable whether a penalty was justifed" .
Wouldn't that be a debate between penalty and no penalty ?

[52Paddy]

anyone out there pulling a move like that will get just as hard a time over it from me .

Same. Mark my words.

[Daniel]

Perhaps there should be a Trulli/Perez thread .
You should start one , if you think it's far worse .


Maybe it was cheating , but was it dangerous ? In my opinion , no .

I'll keep my opinion on Perez for your thread .

Couldn't agree more. People are putting words in people's mouths. Who the hell is black knight to tell either of us whether we would care or not about another driver doing what Lewis did? :confused: There seems to be a hardcore group of fanboi's who thing that anyone who is saying something not nice about Lewis MUST be anti-Lewis and would happily allow others to get away with things that Lewis does and gets criticised for.

[Mia 01]

It was a very dangerous move. All Lewis fans have to understrand, he could also get hurt.

And the conclusion, use your brain.

[CaptainRaiden]

Couldn't agree more. People are putting words in people's mouths. Who the hell is black knight to tell either of us whether we would care or not about another driver doing what Lewis did? :confused: There seems to be a hardcore group of fanboi's who thing that anyone who is saying something not nice about Lewis MUST be anti-Lewis and would happily allow others to get away with things that Lewis does and gets criticised for.

Oh please, this thread, the posts on this thread, and countless others based off of two races in 2011 is enough evidence that some people have serious beef with Lewis. Every single action of his sparks so much overreaction, it's amazing. And add to that, the weekly threads about Hamilton by 555-IQ-OF-20 (I kid, I kid) :p in the cloak of lightheartedness where all Lewis haters get together and have a nice little bonfire is evidence enough. It's for everyone to see.

I ask again, why didn't anyone call for a race ban on Sebastian Vettel for his bonehead moves at Turkey, Silverstone and Spa in 2010?

[CaptainRaiden]

It was a very dangerous move. All Lewis fans have to understrand, he could also get hurt.

And the conclusion, use your brain.

The extensive brain usage on your amazing one liners are excellent examples. :up: :)

[Daniel]

Oh please, this thread, the posts on this thread, and countless others based off of two races in 2011 is enough evidence that some people have serious beef with Lewis. Every single action of his sparks so much overreaction, it's amazing. And add to that, the weekly threads about Hamilton by 555-IQ-OF-20 (I kid, I kid) :p in the cloak of lightheartedness where all Lewis haters get together and have a nice little bonfire is evidence enough. It's for everyone to see.

I ask again, why didn't anyone call for a race ban on Sebastian Vettel for his bonehead moves at Turkey, Silverstone and Spa in 2010?

Tbh I always said the Turkey incident was 50:50. Sebastian was coming over slowly and his team mate just flat out refused to move at all. But anyhoo.....

If you can't accept that some people genuinely don't like the way Lewis drivers then I feel sorry for you.

[CaptainRaiden]

Tbh I always said the Turkey incident was 50:50. Sebastian was coming over slowly and his team mate just flat out refused to move at all. But anyhoo.....

We can again have countless pages of discussion how the incident with Massa and Maldonado at Monaco was 50-50, if you want to. ;)


If you can't accept that some people genuinely don't like the way Lewis drivers then I feel sorry for you.

Dislike for a driver's style I can understand. The annoyance is over some people being anal about something as petty or ridiculous as a penalty not being harsh enough. So, it's not enough that a penalty was dished out for a no-contact incident, was taken, and the driver even apologized for it, but here we have 1000 pages of people still whining over it. If this is not unreasonable beef with a certain individual, then I don't know what is.

God forbid if Lewis ever did anything like this, Mark would make a million dollars in a day off of traffic generated by Lewis haters alone.

Jjls3SIbcH8

[Daniel]

We can again have countless pages of discussion how the incident with Massa and Maldonado at Monaco was 50-50, if you want to. ;)



Dislike for a driver's style I can understand. The annoyance is over some people being anal about something as petty or ridiculous as a penalty not being harsh enough. So, it's not enough that a penalty was dished out for a no-contact incident, was taken, and the driver even apologized for it, but here we have 1000 pages of people still whining over it. If this is not unreasonable beef with a certain individual, then I don't know what is.

God forbid if Lewis ever did anything like this, Mark would make a million dollars in a day off of traffic generated by Lewis haters alone.

Jjls3SIbcH8

Tbh I think that any driver who does that should never race in anything ever again, not evern karts.

[CaptainRaiden]

Tbh I think that any driver who does that should never race in anything ever again, not evern karts.

Well, he's still racing, and what's worse, coached some kids on a racing reality series on TV. If Lewis ever does anything that irresponsible, like Paul Tracy, then his criticism is 100% justified. His move at Hungaroring was reckless, yes, but he got his penalty and apologized, the affected driver didn't mind, case closed. Multiple pages in a thread with people whining over the penalty not being harsh enough means only one thing. The trolls were not fed enough.

[Daniel]

Well, he's still racing, and what's worse, coached some kids on a racing reality series on TV. If Lewis ever does anything that irresponsible, like Paul Tracy, then his criticism is 100% justified. His move at Hungaroring was reckless, yes, but he got his penalty and apologized, the affected driver didn't mind, case closed. Multiple pages in a thread with people whining over the penalty not being harsh enough means only one thing. The trolls were not fed enough.

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater :dozey:

This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.

[CaptainRaiden]

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater :dozey:

I really haven't seen anybody doing that in this thread. I for one have maintained, and I think almost everybody else agrees that the move was wreckless, the penalty was well, just, even though there was no contact, the apology was classy, Di Resta wasn't bothered, end of chapter.

But I guess people have to do SOME thing with their free time...

[BDunnell]

I really haven't seen anybody doing that in this thread. I for one have maintained, and I think almost everybody else agrees that the move was wreckless, the penalty was well, just, even though there was no contact, the apology was classy, Di Resta wasn't bothered, end of chapter.

But I guess people have to do SOME thing with their free time...

And, beyond that, why does it matter?

[Bagwan]

We can again have countless pages of discussion how the incident with Massa and Maldonado at Monaco was 50-50, if you want to. ;)



Dislike for a driver's style I can understand. The annoyance is over some people being anal about something as petty or ridiculous as a penalty not being harsh enough. So, it's not enough that a penalty was dished out for a no-contact incident, was taken, and the driver even apologized for it, but here we have 1000 pages of people still whining over it. If this is not unreasonable beef with a certain individual, then I don't know what is.

God forbid if Lewis ever did anything like this, Mark would make a million dollars in a day off of traffic generated by Lewis haters alone.

Jjls3SIbcH8

So , my dislike of Lewis's style of pannicking when under pressure lately you can understand , then ?
Good .

If he had been able to do his spin before they got there , I would be here congratulating him with you .

You believe the penalty just , and I don't think it was enough .
That's fine . At least it was recognized as a no-no .
I don't want to see that again , from anyone .

As far as the vid goes , and not to really cast Lewis as bad as Tracy , but if the others had not anticipated as well , or if he hadn't managed that maneouvre quite as deftly , he might have tangled up a number of cars , trying to spin it into the marbles outside the second part of the chicane , he might have turned up looking pretty much as silly .

[The Black Knight]

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater

This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.

I never mentioned that he did nothing wrong. My whole point about this is that as soon as Lewis is mentioned certain members of the board see red. The number of anti-Lewis threads on the front page of this forum alone about Lewis supports this view.


Perhaps there should be a Trulli/Perez thread .
You should start one , if you think it's far worse .

Maybe it was cheating , but was it dangerous ? In my opinion , no .
I'll keep my opinion on Perez for your thread .
It wans't dangerous no. It was deliberately cheating though. Lewis never had intent. He simply didn't see DiResta. My whole point of bringing up Perez/Trulli incident is that no one cares and harps on the band wagon unless Lewis is involved. There is no other driver that would generate this much discussion. People have an issue with Lewis. You may not be one of those people. I've only ever seen you criticise him but, as said above, the number of threads on the opening page alone of this forum criticising Lewis shows a few forum members certainly hold some sort of grudge against him. If you are unable to see this, then fine. It's glaringly obvious.

[CaptainRaiden]

So , my dislike of Lewis's style of pannicking when under pressure lately you can understand , then ?
Good .

Were you as vocal in your criticism of Sebastian Vettel in 2010?


As far as the vid goes , and not to really cast Lewis as bad as Tracy , but if the others had not anticipated as well , or if he hadn't managed that maneouvre quite as deftly , he might have tangled up a number of cars , trying to spin it into the marbles outside the second part of the chicane , he might have turned up looking pretty much as silly .

Coulda, shoulda, ifs and buts. He didn't crash into anyone and left enough room on that side of the track. FFS Di Resta's right tyres were slightly off the white line on the outside of the kerb. If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty. Neither Barrichello before or Di Resta after created a fuss about it. The drivers knew what they were doing. Lewis didn't create an accident.

IMO a drive through penalty was more than enough for only making a car go slightly off track. There was no contact, nobody's race got ruined. The apology later to Paul should have closed the book.

I am yet to find an answer to my earlier question in this thread. Why wasn't there an outburst like this by fans for Sebastian Vettel in 2010, when his drives were equally or even more boneheaded? I'm talking about tangling with Webber at Turkey, almost taking himself and Lewis out at Silverstone, and taking Button out at Spa? That's more than what Lewis has done in 2011.

[Retro Formula 1]

Just three posts back , Knockie said "It's debatable whether a penalty was justifed" .
Wouldn't that be a debate between penalty and no penalty ?

Baggy. It was debatable but the Stewards decided that as Paul left the track, Lewis deserved a drive thru. The commentators didn't think it deserved a penalty but when he did get one, I don't think many people thought it was harsh and accepted it. Personally, I believe it was debatable but it was fine getting a drive thru.

Saying something is debatable surely means there are pro's and cons. I saw a skilled driver do a spin practically on the spot and get our of a dangerous track position. He didn't hit anyone or ruin anyone's race but technically should have waited for Paul to pass. I really don't see what all this fuss is about?

[Daniel]

Coulda, shoulda, ifs and buts. He didn't crash into anyone and left enough room on that side of the track. FFS Di Resta's right tyres were slightly off the white line on the outside of the kerb. If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty. Neither Barrichello before or Di Resta after created a fuss about it. The drivers knew what they were doing. Lewis didn't create an accident.

IMO a drive through penalty was more than enough for only making a car go slightly off track. There was no contact, nobody's race got ruined. The apology later to Paul should have closed the book.

I am yet to find an answer to my earlier question in this thread. Why wasn't there an outburst like this by fans for Sebastian Vettel in 2010, when his drives were equally or even more boneheaded? I'm talking about tangling with Webber at Turkey, almost taking himself and Lewis out at Silverstone, and taking Button out at Spa? That's more than what Lewis has done in 2011.
So Lewis fans can say coulda shoulda woulda but non-Lewis fans can't?

Think back to Turkey, there was MASSIVE criticism of Vettel!!!!

[Bagwan]

If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty.

Thanks for that .
That's an answer to my question about the "what ifs" here .

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .

[Daniel]

Thanks for that .
That's an answer to my question about the "what ifs" here .

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .
But apparently because no accident happened then it's fine.

[Bagwan]

Saying something is debatable surely means there are pro's and cons. I saw a skilled driver do a spin practically on the spot and get our of a dangerous track position. He didn't hit anyone or ruin anyone's race but technically should have waited for Paul to pass. I really don't see what all this fuss is about?

I've never meant to give the impression that it wasn't an awe-inspiring piece of driving . It was .

He "technically should have waited" , is exactly what I'm on about .
He should have , because of the potential to take several others out .

They got him for causing Paul to leave the racing surface , but they would not have charged him with that , had he stayed put , even if Paul had had to do much the same action .

Next time , I hope he waits , and does the the technically proper thing .

[CaptainRaiden]

So Lewis fans can say coulda shoulda woulda but non-Lewis fans can't?

Did I say they can't? Plus you're really missing the point I'm trying to make by a landslide.


Think back to Turkey, there was MASSIVE criticism of Vettel!!!!

And equal criticism of Webber as well. Vettel fans criticizing Webber and vice versa. A few posts ago you said you saw the incident with Vettel and Webber as 50-50, and yet in the Monaco 2011 thread I remember you saying that the onus of a clean overtake lies 100% with the overtaker. Why the double standards Daniel? We can very easily assign 50-50 fault on the incident with Maldonado and Massa at Monaco this year as well.

More importantly, in 2010 I don't remember anybody calling for race bans on Vettel. Spa 2010 was his second, almost third big example of reckless driving. I don't remember anybody asking for harsher penalties, race bans, beheading etc. like folks are doing for Lewis this year.

In fact, Schumacher has had more brain farts, pushing and shoving, front wings taken off and collided with more cars in the last two years than any other front running driver. Why isn't he on the receiving end of the stick?

[CaptainRaiden]

DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .

So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .

But did the disaster happen? Should the stewards decide the penalties based on what "COULD" have happened or what "DID" happen? Hamilton forced another car off track, got the drive through penalty. In your opinion, he should have gotten a much harsher penalty based on what COULD have happened.

So, Schumacher was handed a 10 place grid penalty for his squeeze on Barrichello on the main straight at well over 300 KMPH at Hungary 2010. IF they would have touched, there could have been a huge disaster, the car could have rolled multiple times, Barrichello could have been fatally injured. He also turned into Villenueve in 1997 knowing full well that it was really dangerous and stupid at those speeds. The penalties he got for them were pretty nonsensical. Maybe Schumacher should have been handed a life imprisonment for what COULD have happened in those two incidents?

[Daniel]

Did I say they can't? Plus you're really missing the point I'm trying to make by a landslide.



And equal criticism of Webber as well. Vettel fans criticizing Webber and vice versa. A few posts ago you said you saw the incident with Vettel and Webber as 50-50, and yet in the Monaco 2011 thread I remember you saying that the onus of a clean overtake lies 100% with the overtaker. Why the double standards Daniel? We can very easily assign 50-50 fault on the incident with Maldonado and Massa at Monaco this year as well.

More importantly, in 2010 I don't remember anybody calling for race bans on Vettel. Spa 2010 was his second, almost third big example of reckless driving. I don't remember anybody asking for harsher penalties, race bans, beheading etc. like folks are doing for Lewis this year.

In fact, Schumacher has had more brain farts, pushing and shoving, front wings taken off and collided with more cars in the last two years than any other front running driver. Why isn't he on the receiving end of the stick?

Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

[CaptainRaiden]

Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

Where did I say you were a Vettel fan? Do you have comprehension problems? I said after the incident Vettel fans were criticizing Webber and vice versa, i.e. Webber fans were criticizing Vettel. Where do you come in the picture?

[Robinho]

and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater :dozey:

This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.

you could read it easily the opposite way round - you (people) said it wasn't a huge deal, and the problem was the Lewis lynchmob coming on here making out he's some pycho with a death wish and no respect for his or anyone elses life, demanding justice.

The same tiresome problem persists where anyone with the opposite opinion to yours gets called fanboy, biased etc etc. Its the other side of the same ****ty coin. There are some fans and some probable haters, but most people have a view on it and Lewis which is not as strong, but gets lumped in with the same opposition for having the opinion. The very same you've just done.

Other than one quoted point where it was said that the incident was debatable at best and the oenalty was probably fair, i've still not seen anything to suggest that Lewis was in the right or that the penalty wasn't correct. only defending that it wasn't SO bad that he was trying to kill or deserved race bans or worse. The first stones were cast from the "side" asking for more serious penalties, the "excessive defence" followed. IMO both sides and opinions were excessive, It was a stupid mistake, deserved a penalty and was dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.

It is a fact that Lewis does attract an immense amount of strong feelings both pro and anti, to the extent I've not seen since MS was in his prime. I have to say I see it differently only because I find myself defending Lewis more often than attacking him and I do have a soft spot for him without being a diehard supporter. In this case I am happy to fall on the attacking side to the extent, like I said, I agreed with the penalty and that I Think it was a careless and foolish move.

[Robinho]

But apparently because no accident happened then it's fine.

No its not fine, there was an incident, that was punished. Cause and effect. If the effect had been greater, such as removing another driver from his position, or from the race, then the penalty is likely to be harsher. You can't punish someone for something that didn't happen.

Thats why we have things like attempted murder and murder. (albeit then we are talking about intent rather than carelessness)

[Robinho]

Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......

no, it means you're a webber hater obviously ;)

I agree with you, an opinion doesn't mean you have to be labelled as either a fanboi or a hater, its ridiculous, but people love to label, especially when it opposes their view as its the easiest way to cheapen the opposing arguement by making them see irrational. Thankfully most people see through it

[Daniel]

No its not fine, there was an incident, that was punished. Cause and effect. If the effect had been greater, such as removing another driver from his position, or from the race, then the penalty is likely to be harsher. You can't punish someone for something that didn't happen.

Thats why we have things like attempted murder and murder. (albeit then we are talking about intent rather than carelessness)

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

[The Black Knight]

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

If a car nearly hits me after I walked across the street in front of it because I didn't see it coming, should I be punished?

In your answer, keep in mind that this sort of incident occurs umpteen times every day on the street. I'd be willing to lay money that you and every other member of this forum has done something like that at some stage in their lives.

[Robinho]

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

agreed, and in this case he was. the move was deemed dangerous enough to warrant a penalty, but a penalty for potential will never be as great as one for actual harm

[Daniel]

If a car nearly hits me after I walked across the street in front of it because I didn't see it coming, should I be punished?

In your answer, keep in mind that this sort of incident occurs umpteen times every day on the street. I'd be willing to lay money that you and every other member of this forum has done something like that at some stage in their lives.

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement.

[Daniel]

agreed, and in this case he was. the move was deemed dangerous enough to warrant a penalty, but a penalty for potential will never be as great as one for actual harm


I agree, but my point is that Lewis seems to get involved in these sorts of incidents more often than other drivers. I think we need to start looking at a yellow car system where if over a year you get a certain amount of penalties then you have to sit out a race or you lose a certain amount of points. Penalties for things like not giving back a position (Lewis vs Kimi @ Spa) or technical infringements should not count of course, only penalties for contact with other drivers etc etc

[TMorel]

I think the fact we are still complaining about inconsistant penalties being applied (or the lack of transparancy on decisions) means we aren't in a state where we can introduce a sin-binning type approach.

[Daniel]

I think the fact we are still complaining about inconsistant penalties being applied (or the lack of transparancy on decisions) means we aren't in a state where we can introduce a sin-binning type approach.

True. Definitely need a dedicated team of stewards who can demonstrate the ability to be consistent before we go sin binning anyone.......

[The Black Knight]

I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement.

You find it ridiculous because it doesn't suit your previous ridiculous statement. I described exactly the situation you said people should be punished for, therefore, I'm going to assume you admit that your statement was also ridiculous.

[Daniel]

You find it ridiculous because it doesn't suit your previous ridiculous statement. I described exactly the situation you said people should be punished for, therefore, I'm going to assume you admit that your statement was also ridiculous.

It's ridiculous because the two situations are nothing alike.

[The Black Knight]

It's ridiculous because the two situations are nothing alike.

LOL They are exactly the same.

Here is your quote:


Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

Now, I'll explain this simply so you can undestand. I walk out in front of a car without looking properly - careless action.

I could have caused injury to myself but I didn't. I could also have caused injury to the car that was forced to take avoiding action or brake suddenly (take your pic of whatever action the car had to take) to avoid me. Even worse, if the the car had to swerve to avoid me, they could have hit another pedestrian, or even another car. Who knows what may have happened. There could have been multiple injuries and fatalities.

So, clearly it was a careless action that could have caused injury, which satisifies all criteria in your ridiculous statement. Should we start punishing everyone that walks out in front of car and doesn't see it? Could create lots of employment for people policing such laws :D

[Daniel]

LOL They are exactly the same.

Here is your quote:



Now, I'll explain this simply so you can undestand. I walk out in front of a car without looking properly - careless action.

I could have caused injury to myself but I didn't. I could also have caused injury to the car that was forced to take avoiding action or brake suddenly (take your pic of whatever action the car had to take) to avoid me. Even worse, if the the car had to swerve to avoid me, they could have hit another pedestrian, or even another car. Who knows what may have happened. There could have been multiple injuries and fatalities.

So, clearly it was a careless action that could have caused injury, which satisifies all criteria in your ridiculous statement. Should we start punishing everyone that walks out in front of car and doesn't see it? Could create lots of employment for people policing such laws :D

Walking out in front of a car will pretty much only cause injury to yourself. Hamilton was more likely to injure someone else. Completely different.

[The Black Knight]

Walking out in front of a car will pretty much only cause injury to yourself. Hamilton was more likely to injure someone else. Completely different.

Please reread the second paragraph of my last post. You're wrong and you know it. It's kind of funny seeing you deny it such an abismal manner really LOL :D

[Daniel]

Please reread the second paragraph of my last post. You're wrong and you know it. It's kind of funny seeing you deny it such an abismal manner really LOL :D

I believe that you are rather confused. Walking out in front of a car, you're only really going to injure yourself. Spinning your car around on a race track rather than just staying still, quite likely to injure someone else.

yes, Lewis could have hurt himself, but that's not why he got the penalty and why he got all of his other penalties, it's because he endangered other people. Walking out in front of a car endangers you and you alone. Your analogy is rubbish, sorry.

[The Black Knight]

I believe that you are rather confused. Walking out in front of a car, you're only really going to injure yourself. Spinning your car around on a race track rather than just staying still, quite likely to injure someone else.

yes, Lewis could have hurt himself, but that's not why he got the penalty and why he got all of his other penalties, it's because he endangered other people. Walking out in front of a car endangers you and you alone. Your analogy is rubbish, sorry.

Oh dear. You appear to be having a slow day. I'm going to quote what you said and explain again, just so you can catch up.


Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

Lets make it clear that we are no longer talking about Lewis here so please stop backtracking by referring back to Sunday's incident. Your statement clearly says PEOPLE! That could mean anyone. If you meant F1 drivers only, then you might want to correct your ridiculous statement.

My analogy is absolutely correct. I believe my 5 year old nephew would be able to figure it out. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are generally smarter than a 5 year old and are either having a brain fade day, or you're really desperate to not admit you are incorrect.

By the way, when I was 14 I saw an old woman walk out in front of a car. Trying to avoid her the driver swerved and, in doing so, he went up onto the kerb on the opposite side of the road and smashed hit a kid in my school two years ahead of me. Luckily, he lived, but his legs were broken in about multiple different places and he has never been right since. The driver also suffered minor injuries. Should this old woman have been punished?

[Daniel]

Oh dear. You appear to be having a slow day. I'm going to quote what you said and explain again, just so you can catch up.



Lets make it clear that we are no longer talking about Lewis here so please stop backtracking by referring back to Sunday's incident. Your statement clearly says PEOPLE! That could mean anyone. If you meant F1 drivers only, then you might want to correct your ridiculous statement.

My analogy is absolutely correct. I believe my 5 year old nephew would be able to figure it out. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are generally smarter than a 5 year old and are either having a brain fade day, or you're really desperate to not admit you are incorrect.

By the way, when I was 14 I saw an old woman walk out in front of a car. Trying to avoid her the driver swerved and, in doing so, he went up onto the kerb on the opposite side of the road and smashed hit a kid in my school two years ahead of me. Luckily, he lived, but his legs were broken in about multiple different places and he has never been right since. The driver also suffered minor injuries. Should this old woman have been punished?

Not to be funny, but if we're not talking about Lewis, why are we in this thread? Go post in Chit Chat if you want to discuss whether people stepping out in front of cars should be punished.

[The Black Knight]

Not to be funny, but if we're not talking about Lewis, why are we in this thread? Go post in Chit Chat if you want to discuss whether people stepping out in front of cars should be punished.

You're the one that made the initial reference to people. Perhaps you should leave such silly comments for the Chit chat forum if discussing it here bothers you so much.

[Daniel]

You're the one that made the initial reference to people. Perhaps you should leave such silly comments for the Chit chat forum if discussing it here bothers you so much.
Huh? If I'm not very much mistaken, Lewis Hamilton is a person, as are all other F1 drivers, therefore people refers to them, not inattentive pedestrians.

[Daniel]

Perhaps you should have said 'drivers' instead of 'people' which initially dragged this off topic. Your comment above suggested 'people' in the broader sense.

I think Mr Black Knight and yourself will just have to understand that you took it the wrong way. It's an F1 forum so why would I start talking about pedestrians? Unless someone explicitly states that they're talking about something else would it not be prudent to assume they're talking about F1? :confused:

[The Black Knight]

I think Mr Black Knight and yourself will just have to understand that you took it the wrong way. It's an F1 forum so why would I start talking about pedestrians? Unless someone explicitly states that they're talking about something else would it not be prudent to assume they're talking about F1? :confused:

We didn't take it the wrong way. You said people. You were wrong. The language you used is quite clear and you're only squirming now. If you meant F1 drivers them that's what you should have said in your post.

[Daniel]

We didn't take it the wrong way. You said people. You were wrong. The language you used is quite clear and you're only squirming now. If you meant F1 drivers them that's what you should have said in your post.

This is ridiculous, F1 drivers are people, we're in an F1 forum so it was obvious that I was talking about F1 drivers and not pedestrians or people making quilts or whatever you're going to talk about next. Regardless of what YOU thought I was saying, I have clarified what I said and your pedestrian argument is completely irrelevant.

[The Black Knight]

This is ridiculous, F1 drivers are people, we're in an F1 forum so it was obvious that I was talking about F1 drivers and not pedestrians or people making quilts or whatever you're going to talk about next. Regardless of what YOU thought I was saying, I have clarified what I said and your pedestrian argument is completely irrelevant.

Ahahahaha, this is hilarious. I love people like you. The type that never wants to admit they are wrong and desparately try and twist things around to prevent admission. There's a term for it. It's called Denial.

Here is your post again:


Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

Now, to amuse me further, can you just explain to me which part of this post you say actually refers to F1?

[Daniel]

Ahahahaha, this is hilarious. I love people like you. The type that never wants to admit they are wrong and desparately try and twist things around. There's a term for it. It's called Denial.

Here is your post again:



Now, to amuse me further, can you just convey to me which part of this post you say actually refers to F1?

So let me get this right, I posted something on the forum, me being the poster I obviously knew what I was saying, you tell me that i wasn't saying what I said that I was saying and that I should admit that I was talking about people in general when I'm talking on an F1 about an F1 driver? :confused:

Can someone please set this guy straight? I promise not to talk about canopies or coupe's for a whole week if someone will just set him straight.

[Daniel]

Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't

Of course. But people (you know, F1 drivers) should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn't (as was the case with Lewis Hamilton this weekend, see? There's the link with this thread)

Now please just get back on topic.

[The Black Knight]

So let me get this right, I posted something on the forum, me being the poster I obviously knew what I was saying, you tell me that i wasn't saying what I said that I was saying and that I should admit that I was talking about people in general when I'm talking on an F1 about an F1 driver? :confused:

Can someone please set this guy straight? I promise not to talk about canopies or coupe's for a whole week if someone will just set him straight.
EXACTLY! You finally said it! You were talking about people in general and now you're trying to say you weren't. But hey, yes, I'm not the only one that sees it that way either. I am happy to get back on topic now though. It will be pretty obvious to anyone reading thread what you really meant.

[Daniel]

EXACTLY! You finally said it! You were talking about people in general and now you're trying to say you weren't. But hey, yes, I'm not the only one that sees it that way either. I am happy to get back on topic now though. It will be pretty obvious to anyone reading thread what you really meant.

What?!?!?!?! I did not SAY that. That is what you are claiming that I said. I DID NOT SAY THAT, NOR DID I MEAN IT. What is your problem? No one else is agreeing with you, Henners said that perhaps I should have said drivers instead of people, perhaps I should have, but that does not change my intent. You seem to have some crazy way of knowing my thoughts better than me :dozey:

My non-dicsussion of coupe's and canopies offer still stands for anyone willing to set this nutjob straight. Heck I'll make it a month of not talking about them.....

[The Black Knight]

As was in this case. Lewis was punished and he apologised to the person who was inconvenienced by his actions after the race. He would undoubtedly faced more serious sanctions had this not occured on the slowest part of the track where cars were going relatively slow IMO. For the record I had no problem with Lewis getting a penalty because he could have easily taken himself and Di Resta out of the race but his actions were not as dangerous as is being discussed IMO. I think its being blown out of proportion and exaggerated to sound alot worse than it was.

I rewatched the race today and one thing that struck me about this incident as I watched it was that DiResta could have passed Lewis without getting onto the grass, or at least it seems that way to me from the camera angle though it would have been a lot closer. This doesn't make a difference either way and the stewards have more info than us anyway. He still shouldn't have done it.

[Daniel]

I rewatched the race today and one thing that struck me about this incident as I watched it was that DiResta could have passed Lewis without getting onto the grass, or at least it seems that way to me from the camera angle though it would have been a lot closer. This doesn't make a difference either way and the stewards have more info than us anyway. He still shouldn't have done it.

The problem is that di resta, unlike yourself does not have the ability to read minds therefore he left a margin to account for Lewis to move across as obviously Hamilton wasn't showing that he was particularly careful.

[The Black Knight]

The problem is that di resta, unlike yourself does not have the ability to read minds therefore he left a margin to account for Lewis to move across as obviously Hamilton wasn't showing that he was particularly careful.

You're right, I can't read minds. I can only read posts and what they clearly mean.

Does anyone have a link to the official FIA inident reports? I'd like to see the FIA's actual reasoning on this and I can't find the link on their site?

[Mia 01]

Why are the police handing out harsh speed tickets to people speeding outside a school for example, they even take their driving licences if the speed is enough.

[Dave B]

This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read! :laugh:
My opinion has not changed since posting that last week.

[Allyc85]

10 pages over an incident where nobody was hurt or cars damaged, that was swiftly dealt with by the stewards and sorted out by the drivers straight after the race?!

Some of you lot really need to get out more! :D

[Daniel]

My opinion has not changed since posting that last week.

What did you say about me mother? :p Don't deny it! It's clear as day :p

[pino]

10 pages over an incident where nobody was hurt or cars damaged, that was swiftly dealt with by the stewards and sorted out by the drivers straight after the race?!

Some of you lot really need to get out more! :D

That's our F1 forum... love it or hate it ;)

[Allyc85]

I mock it ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

10 pages over an incident where nobody was hurt or cars damaged, that was swiftly dealt with by the stewards and sorted out by the drivers straight after the race?!

Some of you lot really need to get out more! :D

Last year there was a 5-page thread about Lewis' new sideburns and ear studs. So, this doesn't surprise me. Nobody was surprised when Beckham or countless other celebrities have worn studs in their ears, but of course when it comes to Lewis, there are exceptions. ;)

[Daniel]

Last year there was a 5-page thread about Lewis' new sideburns and ear studs. So, this doesn't surprise me. Nobody was surprised when Beckham or countless other celebrities have worn studs in their ears, but of course when it comes to Lewis, there are exceptions. ;)

Why would people discuss Beckham in here though?

[CaptainRaiden]

Why would people discuss Beckham in here though?

I didn't say people discussed Beckham here, it was a generalized statement regarding other sportsmen and their styles not bothering people. I saw at least 3 F1 forums discussing Lewis' sideburns and accessories.

[Daniel]

I didn't say people discussed Beckham here, it was a generalized statement regarding other sportsmen and their styles not bothering people. I saw at least 3 F1 forums discussing Lewis' sideburns and accessories.


Tbh I think Lewis looks silly, but that's just my personal opinion and it doesn't affect my opinion of him as a driver. I would perhaps comment on a thread, but I certainly wouldn't start one.

[steveaki13]

Cantona and Ginola.

Just to stir it up. :D :p

[SGWilko]

you tell me that i wasn't saying what I said that I was saying

That about sums it up - you've proved several times over that you don't appear to know what you are typing.....

[markabilly]

Big Dan is right.

the side burns are giving him tunnel vision,



causing him not to see anybody in the mirrors except his own face

[Daniel]

That about sums it up - you've proved several times over that you don't appear to know what you are typing.....

Seriously, you are nothing more than a troll, you know exactly what I was saying and are siding with him just to score some points :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

I somehow doubt Lewis is the kind of guy that wears walking boots, and Gap chino's with a shirt tucked in either though? When you look at some of the drivers around the paddock like Liuzzi, and Schumacher who wouldn't know trendy fashion if it was written out on a naked girl and thrown on them, I think Lewis pulls off his style rather well in comparison. Its not to my taste if I'm honest though. Drivers like Alonso and Kubica don't try and be stylish and dress like normal blokes, although Alonso has started wearing a Kimi hat and multi coloured Oakley sunglasses lol.. Hmmmm. :eek:

and Alonso and Kimi wear the stupid caps....

Of course Lewis' fashion sense has nothing to do with the racing so although it's not my sort of taste it doesn't really bother me.

[SGWilko]

Seriously, you are nothing more than a troll, you know exactly what I was saying and are siding with him just to score some points :rolleyes:

Oi, Quentin, come 'ere.........! N-n-n-nice to see you, to see you nice. What do points make?

Always liked a tale from the Black horse me.......... :laugh:

[Daniel]

Oi, Quentin, come 'ere.........! N-n-n-nice to see you, to see you nice. What do points make?

Always liked a tale from the Black horse me.......... :laugh:

What are you on about? If you're trying to get a reaction out of me at least try and say something I can make sense of.

[SGWilko]

If you're trying to get a reaction out of me at least try and say something I can make sense of.

Sorry son, might be yours but that's not my game.

[Daniel]

Sorry son, might be yours but that's not my game.

Well then kindly explain what you were on about?