Donkey of the Race. Germany

[steveaki13]

This as well

[christophulus]

I haven't looked into it yet, but Chandok for finishing absolutely dead last, a lap behind the HRT?

[Garry Walker]

Vettel

[pettersolberg29]

A few little ones for me:
1) Every weather forecast - where was the rain?!
2) Massa's pit crew for throwwing 4th away on the last lap
3) Vettel - so unlike him to make so many little errors, but to get away with 4th is just ridiculous!
4) Buemi for not using his wingmirrors

[ioan]

Buemi. That was an absolutely stupid and dangerous move.

[Robinho]

Chandock would be a favourite if he had no major issues, although he may have been using it as a tyre test, but he was going fast enough to manage a spin into the gravel.

Heidfield managed to have 2 accidents and avoided a drive through by retiring. Buemi had his part in that too. everyone else seemed ok at the least

[vhatever]

Vettel was having brake problems most of the race. Webber was by far the worse driver of the two today. Webber missed his undercut pit stop by over a second, and webber had an absolutely horrible start, and only made it worse for red bull b y cutting vettel off. Additonally, webber went from 1st to third, vettel only 3rd to 4th.

[truefan72]

Massa's pit crew for losing 4th place!
Massa did break early, but he had the overwhelming advantage and the pit crew completely botched the stop

[ioan]

Heidfield managed to have 2 accidents and avoided a drive through by retiring.

:?:

[ioan]

It wouldn't be fair not to mention the crappy RBR strategy team, so many idiots sitting on that pit wall together. Incredibly bad!

[gm99]

Red Bull Racing strategists.
Massa's pit crew.
Buemi.
Vettel.

[Robinho]

he has a drive though for hitting di resta on lap one and avoided it by crashing out. the 2nd crash was mostly Buemi's fault, but I apportion some to Nick too.

[SGWilko]

Ferrari pit crew with Massa, Vettel for being nowhere, then waking up and realising he was in a race an hour too late.

[vhatever]

Massa's pit crew for losing 4th place!
Massa did break early, but he had the overwhelming advantage and the pit crew completely botched the stop

There was no advantage, unless you count the 2-3 tenths of aa second lead he had going into the pits. Commentators you were listening to are morons, you were no doubt watching BBC. Tell me how there is an advantage to being the one further down the track? You can't release into the track if the other car is even remotely close to yours. They had it completely wrong. The guy with the nearer pit area has the advantage.

[tfp]

Ferrari's pit crew. Massa held off Vettel for nearly the whole race and threw away their position in a dodgy pit stop.

[Koz]

Chandok - Slow, slower than Ricciardo.

Vettel - Proves once again his racecraft is lacking.

[SGWilko]

Ferrari's pit crew. Massa held off Vettel for nearly the whole race and threw away their position in a dodgy pit stop.

Can Seb overtake???

[Dave B]

Buemi for pushing Heidfeld into the scenery, I'm genuinely surprised that it wasn't investigated.

[Hawkmoon]

Vettel was having brake problems most of the race. Webber was by far the worse driver of the two today. Webber missed his undercut pit stop by over a second, and webber had an absolutely horrible start, and only made it worse for red bull b y cutting vettel off. Additonally, webber went from 1st to third, vettel only 3rd to 4th.

Vettel for adding more fuel to the argument that he can't win from anywhere other than the front.

[steveaki13]

Vettel: did make quite a few mistakes today

Button: Although he was coming back, he has had poor pace all weekend, and had a horrible start. He needs to sort that out to get close to hamilton.

Buemi: A silly move across the track and forcing Heidfeld off.

Chandhok: It was a very slow and poor race from Karun. He would always have been behind Heikki, but he should only have been battling Virgins and HRT not being lapped by them.

Ferrari Pit Crew: Nothing to say apart from Poor Massa

[donKey jote]

Buemi

[tfp]

Can Seb overtake???

Some say no, but he did a good job of overtaking in the pitlane on the last lap :D

[ioan]

he has a drive though for hitting di resta on lap one and avoided it by crashing out.

Not really his fault that dumber Buemi did change direction in the braking zone, the biggest no no in racing. So I am not sure why you think Heidfeld is at fault for it, bias maybe?!

[vhatever]

Buemi's move was definitely the dumbest of the race, it was like button's chop job on hamilton in canada except without the difficult conditions to conveniently blade it on.

[ioan]

There was no advantage, unless you count the 2-3 tenths of aa second lead he had going into the pits. Commentators you were listening to are morons, you were no doubt watching BBC. Tell me how there is an advantage to being the one further down the track? You can't release into the track if the other car is even remotely close to yours. They had it completely wrong. The guy with the nearer pit area has the advantage.

True. The first and last pit boxes are the best positioned and most advantageous. Stupid commentators? Nothing new.

Anyway Ferrari did a crappy job, it took them 5 seconds when all teams do it under 4 seconds.

[Robinho]

Not really his fault that dumber Buemi did change direction in the braking zone, the biggest no no in racing. So I am not sure why you think Heidfeld is at fault for it, bias maybe?!

do you always have to claim bias!! FFS! I like Heidfield, he's in my FGP, I also don't like Buemi, I think he's rubbish. But in that case I don't think it was all Buemis fault, you could see he was looking in the mirrors on the other side looking for Nick as he drifted across, it was mostly his fault, but Nick as the follower could have avoided better i think than proceeding into a shrinking gap. I'd say 90-10 (maybe 80-20) in fault against Buemi, but it was Nicks second accident in not many laps, one of which he'd already been penalised for. it was not good stuff from him.

[Robinho]

Not really his fault that dumber Buemi did change direction in the braking zone, the biggest no no in racing. So I am not sure why you think Heidfeld is at fault for it, bias maybe?!

i like that you claim BS bias after amending my post to omit the part where i said the 2nd crash was mostly Buemi's fault.

Poor, poor form Ioan, really disappointed :(

[vhatever]

do you always have to claim bias!! FFS! I like Heidfield, he's in my FGP, I also don't like Buemi, I think he's rubbish. But in that case I don't think it was all Buemis fault, you could see he was looking in the mirrors on the other side looking for Nick as he drifted across, it was mostly his fault, but Nick as the follower could have avoided better i think than proceeding into a shrinking gap. I'd say 90-10 (maybe 80-20) in fault against Buemi, but it was Nicks second accident in not many laps, one of which he'd already been penalised for. it was not good stuff from him.


Are you for real man? Buemi knows damn well heidfeld is right on his ass. He looks in his mirror left-- no heidfeld. Gosh, where oh where could he be? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where he was. Even worse, heidfeld was halfway off ithe track already because he was responding to buemi's druken driving, Beumi was completely off the ideal racing line so there is no way he was just trying to take the corner.

[ioan]

do you always have to claim bias!!

You're biased, so what should I say?

[ioan]

i like that you claim BS bias after amending my post to omit the part where i said the 2nd crash was mostly Buemi's fault.

Poor, poor form Ioan, really disappointed :(

:laugh:
I can live with your disappointment. :rotflmao:

[Robinho]

:laugh:
I can live with your disappointment. :rotflmao:

you never fail to disappoint, i try to put up with your abbraisive manner cos on the whole you have some good points to make, but here you pull me up for mostly agreeing with you, only quote part of my post in trying to claim i am biased and then fail to apologise. Pretty standard behaviour

well f-you, not mincing my words and dancing around your crap any more, if you can't see that i was agreeing that accident was more buemi's than heidfields, but that i still pick Heidfield for donkey cos he got involved in a couple of avoidable accidents in a quarter of the race then you must be as blind as you think i am biased. you are full of it. if you don't know what "it" is then ask around, i am sure someone can fill in the gap for you.

It was a stupid accident and Buemi should arguably have got a penalty for it, but Heidfield was not entirely blameless IMO.

[Robinho]

You're biased, so what should I say?

back that up or take it back. Not in the mood. if your man enough to throw around accusations you need to man up and back it up, like your famous signature suggests you do.

[Robinho]

Are you for real man? Buemi knows damn well heidfeld is right on his ass. He looks in his mirror left-- no heidfeld. Gosh, where oh where could he be? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where he was. Even worse, heidfeld was halfway off ithe track already because he was responding to buemi's druken driving, Beumi was completely off the ideal racing line so there is no way he was just trying to take the corner.

yeah i agree. he made a mistake, he was looking one way for Nick and failed to notice he was on the other side and hit him. a foolish error, but i still maintain Nick could have avoided it by not persisting to try and move into a gap that was decreasing, whether it was his fault the gap was disappearing or not.

[ioan]

BTW Buemi has been penalized, which proves my point! Simples, as you like to say. :)

[Robinho]

BTW Buemi has been penalized, which proves my point! Simples, as you like to say. :)

and mine, which you'd realise if you ever bothered reading my posts, rather than selective quoting to try to score petty points

[Daniel]

Buemi without a doubt. That waste of space needs to be sent back to a lower formula. They got rid of Bourdais who is obviously more talented than Buemi, why not get rid of Buemi?

[DexDexter]

Buemi, he's had way too many accidents anyway. I agree with Daniel, get rid of him.

[ioan]

Buemi without a doubt. That waste of space needs to be sent back to a lower formula. They got rid of Bourdais who is obviously more talented than Buemi, why not get rid of Buemi?

Agree. In fact both STR drivers are a waste of good F1 seats and should be replaced.

[wedge]

Buemi - for the dumb move on Heidfeld

Vettel - another example of his lack of killer instinct racecraft and leaving it down to the guys in pitlane to help him out.


do you always have to claim bias!! FFS! I like Heidfield, he's in my FGP, I also don't like Buemi, I think he's rubbish. But in that case I don't think it was all Buemis fault, you could see he was looking in the mirrors on the other side looking for Nick as he drifted across, it was mostly his fault, but Nick as the follower could have avoided better i think than proceeding into a shrinking gap. I'd say 90-10 (maybe 80-20) in fault against Buemi, but it was Nicks second accident in not many laps, one of which he'd already been penalised for. it was not good stuff from him.

Shrinking gap? First time of watching I thought the same but I suggest you re-watch it again.

It was not mis-timed banzai move.

NH legitmately makes a move before Buemi decided to cut across.

[keysersoze]

Since the next turn was a left-right chicane, no way should Nick have stuck his nose in there. The move was not on even if SB would've given him room.

[Kevincal]

I was pretty shocked that Alonso let Hamilton by him after that last pit stop. Fernando came out of the pits well ahead of Hamilton and just totally botched that hairpin after coming out of the pits... Looked like he hit the brakes way too early and then got on the gas too soon exiting and lost traction.

[Bruce D]

I thought the ultimate Donkey was the TV Director - he missed just about everything that happened in a great race.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'd say the most obvious one would be Massa's crew for muffing his stop and giving away 4th.

[Daniel]

Since the next turn was a left-right chicane, no way should Nick have stuck his nose in there. The move was not on even if SB would've given him room.

Anything is a move when you're far quicker which Nick seemed to be.

[Retro Formula 1]

Just had a good look at the Heidfeld / Buemi incident again.

Buemi was moving across track on Lap 11 on the racing line. He was expecting Nick to chuck one up the inside if you ask me which was why he was checking his left mirror.

Nick was always on his right rear side. At no time was he more alongside than having his front wheel level with Sebs rear.

Nick was always going to a disappearing gap on the outside and I can't see what he was trying to do going into a Chicane? If he went up the inside, he would probably have made it but it was a really risky move on the outside. You will always get squeezed.

Daft overtake that wasn't on and Seb wasn't expecting him that side and should know he was there. 50/50 if you ask me.

Don't know who to nominate for Donkey. Nick was a bit clumsy earlier and cocked up Pauls race. Then we have vettellll who once again shows he can't mix it with the big boys and makes mistakes under pressure. Ferrari gifted an extra place to Seb so deserve a mention as well.

Overall, it was such a good race I don't want to pick one.

[wedge]

I was pretty shocked that Alonso let Hamilton by him after that last pit stop. Fernando came out of the pits well ahead of Hamilton and just totally botched that hairpin after coming out of the pits... Looked like he hit the brakes way too early and then got on the gas too soon exiting and lost traction.

LH pitted earlier and hand warmer tyres.


Since the next turn was a left-right chicane, no way should Nick have stuck his nose in there. The move was not on even if SB would've given him room.

Nick stuck his nose there expecting Buemi to defend the inside line.

[Retro Formula 1]

Well, the Stewards felt that Seb should have seen him and given him room so have given him a 5 place penalty for the next race,

[The Black Knight]

Buemi once again. What a waste of space.

[555-04Q2]

Ferrari pit crew, again :down:

[Kevincal]

Actually don't blame Ferrari pit too much. If you watched closely Vettel gained LOTS of ground just before the pit entrance by braking later than Massa before hitting the pit limiter. Infact he almost rear ended Felipe. Also because Red Bull have #1 pit vettel can always drive straight into the pit box without having to sharply turn in avoiding other teams. Combine those factors together and maybe, even though the Ferrari pitstop was longer, it was going to be almost impossible for Ferrari to get Felipe back out in front of Vettel. Besides Felipe is no match at all for Vettel who is in the better car and is a better driver..


LH pitted earlier and hand warmer tyres.

Ya but that doesn't change the fact that Alonso came out of the pits with plenty of room to stay in front of Hamilton, he was simply driving too cautiously out of the pits and handed Hamilton the spot basically. When I saw how far in front Alonso was out of the pits I thought for sure he won the race, hence why I was shocked when he allowed Hamilton to squeeze by...

[steveaki13]

But Buemi had made his one move to defend the inside line and rather than move out slightly to take the turn, he moved right back across the track which was illegal. Nick was pressuring the outside to force Buemi to be slower out of the chicane.

Buemi made an error and moved defensive line in the braking zone. Which I am sure was only a misjudgment not a aggressive move.

[ioan]

But Buemi had made his one move to defend the inside line and rather than move out slightly to take the turn, he moved right back across the track which was illegal. Nick was pressuring the outside to force Buemi to be slower out of the chicane.

Buemi made an error and moved defensive line in the braking zone. Which I am sure was only a misjudgment not a aggressive move.

Exactly, well almost as I am rather sure that Buemi simply had a brain fart, he didn't misjudge it as he didn't use his brain an all at that point.

Funny how some posters around here think that Heidfeld was trying to overtake on the outside at that point and can't see that he was just taking (at least trying until punted) advantage of a better line through the upcoming chicane.

[wedge]

Ya but that doesn't change the fact that Alonso came out of the pits with plenty of room to stay in front of Hamilton, he was simply driving too cautiously out of the pits and handed Hamilton the spot basically. When I saw how far in front Alonso was out of the pits I thought for sure he won the race, hence why I was shocked when he allowed Hamilton to squeeze by...

The conditions were very cool the harder tyre needs to be warmed up to optimum temperature/pressure else the car will not handle well.

[Kevincal]

And to be honest the Heidfeld Buemi thing was a racing incident. Both drivers made mistakes, Buemi wasn't aware of where Heidfeld was and Heidfeld should not have tried to squeeze by with no room to spare. Heidfeld should have let off the gas when he saw Buemi drifting toward him. There are blind spots obviously while racing a formula 1 car, cant expect Buemi to be paying attention to his mirrors too much when he is racing for position after all.

[Big Ben]

Vettel was having brake problems most of the race.

That's just code for 'easy big fellow, don't f*** *p this race with one of your silly overtaking moves'

[intheway]

Got to say Buemi as well.

The F1 Slate put it best...
www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246 (http://www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5976828325_24c9c44b6c.jpg

[Garry Walker]

Got to say Buemi as well.

The F1 Slate put it best...
www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246 (http://www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5976828325_24c9c44b6c.jpg

That is pretty funny.

[Retro Formula 1]

Exactly, well almost as I am rather sure that Buemi simply had a brain fart, he didn't misjudge it as he didn't use his brain an all at that point.

Funny how some posters around here think that Heidfeld was trying to overtake on the outside at that point and can't see that he was just taking (at least trying until punted) advantage of a better line through the upcoming chicane.

ioan, Nick has no place in F1 if he's not trying to overtake. I've never heard of a F1 driver that tries to pull alongside just to hold station :laugh:

[wedge]

And to be honest the Heidfeld Buemi thing was a racing incident. Both drivers made mistakes, Buemi wasn't aware of where Heidfeld was and Heidfeld should not have tried to squeeze by with no room to spare. Heidfeld should have let off the gas when he saw Buemi drifting toward him. There are blind spots obviously while racing a formula 1 car, cant expect Buemi to be paying attention to his mirrors too much when he is racing for position after all.

There were similar manoeuvres throughout the race and without incident eg. Massa vs. Rosberg

Buemi was blatantly looking left in his mirrors when he decided to hold his line before cutting across Heidfeld.

[Scotch]

Got to say Buemi as well.

The F1 Slate put it best...
www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246 (http://www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5976828325_24c9c44b6c.jpg

Ha! Great website! :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Not donkey of the race but a nomination for donkey of the weekend is Button. Being a second behind your team mate in qualifying is just not good enough. I think he knows that too.

[F1boat]

awesome website!

[ioan]

ioan, Nick has no place in F1 if he's not trying to overtake. I've never heard of a F1 driver that tries to pull alongside just to hold station :laugh:

Talking a lot, reading little, understanding nothing. That's Knockie in a shell.

[SGWilko]

That's Knockie in a shell.

Nut or suit? ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

Talking a lot, reading little, understanding nothing. That's Knockie in a shell.

Making a silly claim, being caught out, refusing admit it and targeting the poster instead. ioan personified.

[Garry Walker]

Making a silly claim, being caught out, refusing admit it and targeting the poster instead. ioan personified.

You two are like a married couple.

[steveaki13]

ioan, Nick has no place in F1 if he's not trying to overtake. I've never heard of a F1 driver that tries to pull alongside just to hold station :laugh:

What about Race Craft. You can't always look to overtake in every corner. Lining up your move for a few corners can be the best way.

Look at Silverstone, follow a Car into copse and you use the next 3 or 4 corners lining him up for a pass into Stowe or then Vale.

You don't go into Maggots or Becketts looking to pass you are aiming to position yourself and line up a pass. Into the chicane Heidfeld was given the outside line and was trying to force Buemi to be slow in and out and then maybe switch back under him into Coca Cola Curve.

As it was Buemi moved over.

Just trying to point out that F1 is not so easy that you are just passing at every corner, you are trying to create oppotunities and Heidfeld was doing this before Buemi's move accross.

[Daniel]

Got to say Buemi as well.

The F1 Slate put it best...
www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246 (http://www.thef1slate.com/thread/103246)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5976828325_24c9c44b6c.jpg

Whilst that is funny, rest of the stuff on there seems rather unfunny

[mstillhere]

In order to shed some light to what happened to Massa during his pit stop it would be interesting to read this article: Ferrari engineers examining nuts | Adam Cooper's F1 Blog (http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/07/26/ferrari-takes-a-look-at-nut-problem/)

As you can read what it say the pit crew cannot be blamed to what happend to Massa. He was unlucky again due to the poor design of the wheel nut. However Alonso, who is not suffering of the same bad luck as Massa actually has been able to have the fastest pit stop amoung all the F1 teams.
I hope this article helps in understanding the real story about what happend during this pit stop.

[gloomyDAY]

Germany was a great GP. Almost all races have been fun to watch, except Valencia. I hope Hungary has some ace up its sleeve because it can be pretty processional at times.


You two are like a married couple.Buy them a RT flight to New York.

[Mekola]

Buemi all the way. Too many silly moves transformed into penalizations.

[intheway]

As you can read what it say the pit crew cannot be blamed to what happend to Massa. He was unlucky again due to the poor design of the wheel nut.

Yeah, sometimes we should remember that things can be NOBODY's fault.
Or someone we've never heard of or considered even their existence. e.g. wheel nut designer.

[mstillhere]

No one has excluded the designer so far. My post is about sheding some light on what was the initial perception about the incident, that the crew was not at fault. As mentioned, if the wheel does not jam, the Ferrari pit stop crew is as good if not better than other pit lane crews.

[Garry Walker]

Buy them a RT flight to New York.

I only buy tickets to those who have nice luscious breasts and I dont think either of them qualify

[SGWilko]

I only buy tickets to those who have nice luscious breasts and I dont think either of them qualify

You are sooooooo shallow!!!! :D