Amy Winehouse dead

[Mark]

No word on why yet.

[ioan]

Was going to happen sooner or later. Most probably intoxication.

[Robinho]

A pity, but not the worlds greatest surprise. A shame that it was allowed to get this far for her

[ioan]

A pity, but not the worlds greatest surprise. A shame that it was allowed to get this far for her

It is difficult to stop adults from doing what they think it's best for them.

[Daniel]

No surprise really and IMHO no great loss, her music was OK at best.

[Robinho]

No surprise really and IMHO no great loss, her music was OK at best.

i think thats hugely unfair, its not my type of music but the Back to Black album was exceptional and she did possess a marvellous voice.

[Retro Formula 1]

While it may not be a great surprise, she was a person and a daughter. Obviously a troubled soul and it might be the decent thing to offer respects and close the book on her particular chapter without such apathy and callousness.

[Daniel]

i think thats hugely unfair, its not my type of music but the Back to Black album was exceptional and she did possess a marvellous voice.

It's purely my opinion, I think her music was ok and her personal life was just a mess.

[Roamy]

screw her and good riddance. She was a POS and the world is one person off better.

[00steven]

screw her and good riddance. She was a POS and the world is one person off better.

Thats a little much. She is still a person and should be treated with respect.

[markabilly]

screw her and good riddance. She was a POS and the world is one person off better.

Don't hold back, tell us wht you really feel.....

I do feel sorry that she was a wasted talent and a wasted life


she got more good things then she deserved and threw it all away.

[Rollo]

Age 27.

There's something odd about the age of 27 which seems to cause a lot of untimely deaths.

[CaptainRaiden]

screw her and good riddance. She was a POS and the world is one person off better.

Disgusting. :down:

RIP Amy. Way too early to go. Whether this happened because of her lifestyle is irrelevant at this point. People don't have to show respect, but they don't have to be downright scumbags either.

[driveace]

What do these people want out of life?She had a good living,and waisted it.She had ,managers,bodyguards,her father,and yet no one seems to have made her see any sense.Sad but as others say, no surprise.

[Roamy]

Disgusting. :down:

RIP Amy. Way too early to go. Whether this happened because of her lifestyle is irrelevant at this point. People don't have to show respect, but they don't have to be downright scumbags either.

Are you calling me a scumbag? You fu__king punk - It is because of fu__ks like you that 40,000 mexicans are dead because of drugs. and you want me to cry over one loser.

[themo]

Age 27.

There's something odd about the age of 27 which seems to cause a lot of untimely deaths.

Brian Jones July 3, 1969 -27 years and 125 days Rolling Stones
Jimi Hendrix September 18, 1970 -27 years and 295 days The Jimi Hendrix Experience and Band of Gypsys.
Janis Joplin October 4, 1970 -27 years and 258 days
Jim Morrison July 3, 1971 -27 years and 207 days The Doors.
Kurt Cobain April 5, 1994 -27 years and 44 days Nirvana.
The number of musicians who died at 27 is truly remarkable by any standard. [Although] humans die regularly at all ages, there is a statistical spike for musicians who die at 27.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Waste of talent, a waste of a life....sad and I wish she had found a way to listen to all the people who were beating their heads in trying to help her. Her Dad was always in the press saying this was going to happen...and he wished he would be wrong. He wasn't...sad...poor guy lost a daughter.

This was a girl who just had a self destructive streak..and there is no making sense of it..

[Mark in Oshawa]

Waste of talent, a waste of a life....sad and I wish she had found a way to listen to all the people who were beating their heads in trying to help her. Her Dad was always in the press saying this was going to happen...and he wished he would be wrong. He wasn't...sad...poor guy lost a daughter.

This was a girl who just had a self destructive streak..and there is no making sense of it..

[Rudy Tamasz]

[Although] humans die regularly at all ages, there is a statistical spike for musicians who die at 27.

Cause by that point they become famous yet remain emotionally immature. Their success crushes them and they try to make up for it with substance abuse, which they have plenty of money to afford.

[CaptainRaiden]

Are you calling me a scumbag? You fu__king punk - It is because of fu__ks like you that 40,000 mexicans are dead because of drugs. and you want me to cry over one loser.

Slow down internet warrior, don't puke your beer out on your keyboard. And yeah, you heard me right. Would you like some redneck loser to say crap about your daughter on a public forum, if she died of drugs, now would you? Welcome to civilization. Have some respect for the dead and their family, and if you can't, then just STFU and get back into the hole you came from.

[Dave B]

It all went wrong for her in 2006 when her most successful album went 7 times platinum in the UK and twice in the US.
That one sentence encapsulates Winehouse's life. Deeply tragic.

Once again I feel nothing but contempt for some parts of our press. BBC News this morning was describing how they'll be a post-mortem, and quoting a police officer who rightly cautioned against "jumping to conclusions", meanwhile The Daily Star has this as their front page:
http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/frontpages/archive/Daily_Star_25_7_2011.jpg

:s


(I'm not rising to fousto's comments. If he's trolling then that's sad; if he means it then he has my pity.)

[Roamy]

That one sentence encapsulates Winehouse's life. Deeply tragic.

Once again I feel nothing but contempt for some parts of our press. BBC News this morning was describing how they'll be a post-mortem, and quoting a police officer who rightly cautioned against "jumping to conclusions", meanwhile The Daily Star has this as their front page:
http://www.frontpagestoday.co.uk/frontpages/archive/Daily_Star_25_7_2011.jpg

:s


(I'm not rising to fousto's comments. If he's trolling then that's sad; if he means it then he has my pity.)

Dave there are too many good things in life - she wasn't one of them - get over this trash compactor !! Do you want your daughter to emulate Amy????

[slinkster]

This all felt sadly inevitable. She was very talented, and you can't deny her music has been influential.

I don't know much about her life... other than her addiction. There was much more to her, as anyone, than her addiction but it does frustrate me that people with such opportunities refuse to get the help the need. I know addiction is a very complex thing- but she had more opportunities than many to get help. I guess the old saying is true: you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

[Daniel]

Dave there are too many good things in life - she wasn't one of them - get over this trash compactor !! Do you want your daughter to emulate Amy????

Firstly, Dave doesn't to my knowledge have a daughter and secondly I don't seem to remember him defending her lifestyle at all?

[ioan]

I will do something unusual and say that I think that Fousto is fully right, harsh and rough but right.
Political correctness will not help any of us when our kids will decide to emulate one of these talented junkies that some people chose to praise. :s

Having a great voice =/= being a great human being. And no one is above criticism, not even the dead.

[Daniel]

I will do something unusual and say that I think that Fousto is fully right, harsh and rough but right.
Political correctness will not help any of us when our kids will decide to emulate one of these talented junkies that some people chose to praise. :s

Having a great voice =/= being a great human being. And no one is above criticism, not even the dead.

Whilst I agree with foutso (although i don't agree with his lack of tact), Dave wasn't really defending her?

Personally I never thought her voice was that great, it's OK but IMO there are a few female artists out there with voices which are as good or better and I think her car crash of a life wildly overshadowed any talent.

The fact that she went 7x platinum doesn't say that much to me, heck talentless bint Lily Allen went 3 x platinum twice with little or no talent.

[CaptainRaiden]

I will do something unusual and say that I think that Fousto is fully right, harsh and rough but right.
Political correctness will not help any of us when our kids will decide to emulate one of these talented junkies that some people chose to praise. :s

Having a great voice =/= being a great human being. And no one is above criticism, not even the dead.

So, you agree that her dying, a human being dying, is "good riddance"?

[Daniel]

So, you agree that her dying, a human being dying, is "good riddance"?

Oh come on, lets not get all holier than thou about this. She was a drug/alcohol fuelled car wreck that happened in front of millions of people, if she encouraged just one person to take up drugs or drink then her not being around to continue on being a bad influence is a good thing.

[JackSparrow]

screw her and good riddance. She was a POS and the world is one person off better.
Not getting enough attention Lately?

[Roamy]

So, you agree that her dying, a human being dying, is "good riddance"?

What are you some kind of druggie!! Drugs are destroying every fabric of human life. Can you even understand 40,000 mexicans dead in 4 years over our appetite for drugs. Can you even begin to comprehend the heinous crimes committed due
to meth. Can you even begin to understand that drugs has created a evil sub economy in the world. Dude you need to WTFU - she is garbage and a good riddance now!!

[CaptainRaiden]

Yes, definitely. Let's all sit and say "Oh I'm glad that druggie singer finally died. Now, my children won't become drug addicts. One less thing to worry about." :rolleyes:

There have been hundreds of drug addict rock stars, pop stars, rappers, actors in the last four decades. Half the population of this world must be snorting cocaine for breakfast! :eek:

How heartless we, as a society, have become to actually be happy about someone dying...

[Daniel]

What are you some kind of druggie!! Drugs are destroying every fabric of human life. Can you even understand 40,000 mexicans dead in 4 years over our appetite for drugs. Can you even begin to comprehend the heinous crimes committed due
to meth. Can you even begin to understand that drugs has created a evil sub economy in the world. Dude you need to WTFU - she is garbage and a good riddance now!!

There's a lot of sense in that tbh. I've never tried drugs myself and it's people like Winehouse who have ensured that this hasn't and never will happen. Whilst I can just about understand someone having the wacky tobaccy, anything harder than this is just stupid and it's possibly a doorway to a place you don't want to go.

[CaptainRaiden]

There's a lot of sense in that tbh. I've never tried drugs myself and it's people like Winehouse who have ensured that this hasn't and never will happen. Whilst I can just about understand someone having the wacky tobaccy, anything harder than this is just stupid and it's possibly a doorway to a place you don't want to go.

So, would you say she deserved to die?

[Daniel]

Anyone else having a problem getting to page two?

[Daniel]

So, would you say she deserved to die?

Whilst the cause of her death is unknown, she didn't appear to make any effort to ensure that she was going to live past 30. It is not for me to say who deserves to die or not, but she chose to start using drugs and 99.99% of people know the risk.

[CaptainRaiden]

Whilst the cause of her death is unknown, she didn't appear to make any effort to ensure that she was going to live past 30. It is not for me to say who deserves to die or not, but she chose to start using drugs and 99.99% of people know the risk.

You know, in the end it was her life, her choice, and she paid for it. At the end of the day, she was just a singer, and probably a good human being, not some terrorist. IMO any human being's death should not be appreciated.

So, basically anybody who overdoses on alcohol, drugs or cigarettes is going to die anyway, and so their death would be good riddance for the betterment of our society. It's not like teenagers have free will. They are mindless robots copying everything their favorite musicians do, of course. I grew up listening to Metallica, so I'm obviously an alcoholic like James Hetfield. :rolleyes:

Keith Richards is a HUGE drug junkie, and is obviously a huge influence on people all over the world as the guitarist for Rolling Stones, bigger than Amy Winehouse can ever be. Charlie Sheen is a train wreck. Are you, ioan and fousto secretly hoping they die as well, so they're not bad influence on your children? If and when they die, I just wanna prepare myself for "good riddance" posts from you guys in the future. :)

[Daniel]

You know, in the end it was her life, her choice, and she paid for it. At the end of the day, she was just a singer, and probably a good human being, not some terrorist. IMO any human being's death should not be appreciated.

So, basically anybody who overdoses on alcohol, drugs or cigarettes is going to die anyway, and so their death would be good riddance for the betterment of our society. It's not like teenagers have free will. They are mindless robots copying everything their favorite musicians do, of course. I grew up listening to Metallica, so I'm obviously an alcoholic like James Hetfield. :rolleyes:

Keith Richards is a HUGE drug junkie, and is obviously a huge influence on people all over the world as the guitarist for Rolling Stones, bigger than Amy Winehouse can ever be. Charlie Sheen is a train wreck. Are you, ioan and fousto secretly hoping they die as well, so they're not bad influence on your children? If and when they die, I just wanna prepare myself for "good riddance" posts from you guys in the future. :)

If Charlie or Keith died I wouldn't be all that sad.

[CaptainRaiden]

If Charlie or Keith died I wouldn't be all that sad.

This is not about being sad. By saying or agreeing that it's "good riddance", you're actually implying that you're happy the said person passed away. So, are you happy and will you be in the future as the aforementioned drug junkies stop breathing?

[ioan]

So, would you say she deserved to die?

No one said that, now stop talking bullsh!t.

[CaptainRaiden]

No one said that, now stop talking bullsh!t.

Don't forget to heed your own advice about the latter part, while you celebrate the death of another junkie celebrity.

[Daniel]

I think thats the problem for alot of people. It can be a doorway to a place and sometimes there is no return, but this also depends on the personality of the individual IMO. When I was a little younger I dabbled like most of my mates, but some people take it too far. Some find it easier to turn their backs on things like that. I had a good time but always knew it wasn't something I wanted to do for too many years and happily left harder substances behind. One of my mates from that period still regularly gets off his face at weekends and still attempts to tempt us to join him but the truth is we've moved on and grown up whereas he hasn't. He's also in quite a well known band and is surrounded by an industry (like Amy) where drugs are the norm and its a social activity. I'm married, I've got a good job and although I drink and still go to festivals and gigs, I have no interest in drugs anymore. I do understand how someone like Amy gets hooked because I've experienced how addictive it can be, and its something someone who has never sampled will not understand too easily. :)

But I know very well the addictive powers of drugs, it's drilled into you in school and, well there are people like Amy to remind you....

If you're strong willed and you want to play then good luck, but it's a silly risk to be taking IMHO :)

[ioan]

Don't forget to heed your own advice about the latter part, while you celebrate the death of another junkie celebrity.

There is no one celebrating here.
Now tell us what are you smoking to get yourself such a distasteful and aggressive attitude?

[Bob Riebe]

Interesting replies here, some unexpected.

Either way, when a one or two musicians died, I felt bad as good music would be no more.
As far as the person concerned, my thoughts were-- you pays your money and you takes your chances.
They, and this one, crapped out.

[Roamy]

You know, in the end it was her life, her choice, and she paid for it. At the end of the day, she was just a singer, and probably a good human being, not some terrorist. IMO any human being's death should not be appreciated.

So, basically anybody who overdoses on alcohol, drugs or cigarettes is going to die anyway, and so their death would be good riddance for the betterment of our society. It's not like teenagers have free will. They are mindless robots copying everything their favorite musicians do, of course. I grew up listening to Metallica, so I'm obviously an alcoholic like James Hetfield. :rolleyes:

Keith Richards is a HUGE drug junkie, and is obviously a huge influence on people all over the world as the guitarist for Rolling Stones, bigger than Amy Winehouse can ever be. Charlie Sheen is a train wreck. Are you, ioan and fousto secretly hoping they die as well, so they're not bad influence on your children? If and when they die, I just wanna prepare myself for "good riddance" posts from you guys in the future. :)

Actually I hope they enter rehab > come out cured and realize what a disgusting thing they have done. If not let them OD anyway Jim Morrison need a lead guitar

[tfp]

Interesting replies here, some unexpected.

Either way, when a one or two musicians died, I felt bad as good music would be no more.
As far as the person concerned, my thoughts were-- you pays your money and you takes your chances.
They, and this one, crapped out.

:laugh:

[CaptainRaiden]

There is no one celebrating here.
Now tell us what are you smoking to get yourself such a distasteful and aggressive attitude?

Didn't you agree with fousto that it was good riddance that Amy Winehouse was dead? Do you know the meaning of good riddance or are we conveniently ignoring facts yet again? Here, let me help you:

good riddance - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/good+riddance) - good riddance (spoken) - "I'm happy that someone or something is gone."

Since you're happy that a non-threatening human being has died, I'd suggest you get your head checked. Now, tell me, where did you get such a disgusting attitude towards human life?

[ioan]

Didn't you agree with fousto that it was good riddance that Amy Winehouse was dead? Do you know the meaning of good riddance or are we conveniently ignoring facts yet again? Here, let me help you:

good riddance - Idioms - by the Free Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/good+riddance) - good riddance (spoken) - "I'm happy that someone or something is gone."

Since you're happy that a non-threatening human being has died, I'd suggest you get your head checked. Now, tell me, where did you get such a disgusting attitude towards human life?

You just don't get it, do you?
Now, is it because you are obtuse or because you smoked something strong? This is the only question left open in this thread.

As for your question I will be fair, I've always felt disgust towards idiots.

[race aficionado]

There are many tragedies here, including the deadly and corrupting activities that occur in the whole process of drug's supply and demand cycle like fousto so articulately mentions - as is the death of Amy Winehouse - or any other addict that is consumed by this DISEASE.

*author's note - this is my humble opinion only so hold on to your projectiles please.
:s mokin:

I don't think any human being wakes up and says; "Hey, I want to be a drug addict."

Some of us have more of addictive personalities than others and I can speak for myself - when I tried cocaine in my younger years, I was sure that it could take me to a hole in the ground if I didn't stop it - because I really liked its effect - and thank goodness I was strong enough to win the battle on my own and have since lived a productive healthy rock & rollin' life.

Some could say that addiction isn't a disease - that it is stupidity.

I think it is a disease and that you are stupid if you get into drugs that can throw you in that path of escapism, addiction and destruction.

There are different opinions of course: Just google it.

I don't want my 14 year old son to emulate any of his Rock & Roll heroes that have gone down that sad and slippery road and I will do my best to guide him and to also let him find his own way in this tough age that he is in (teenager!!!!)

Also, the drug business is another story, another monster - hey, I lived it - I was born in Colombia, a country that went through the Medellin/Cali drug cartel nightmare and now the Mexican people are going through it in a more nightmarish fashion and it is getting stronger by the minute.

It's a tough situation, this drug "need" and this illegal drug production -

Finally, some of you have probably read this already but I enjoyed Russell Brand's take on this tragic event.

For Amy « Russell Brand (http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/07/for-amy/)


Now Amy Winehouse is dead, like many others whose unnecessary deaths have been retrospectively romanticised, at 27 years old. Whether this tragedy was preventable or not is now irrelevant. It is not preventable today. We have lost a beautiful and talented woman to this disease. Not all addicts have Amy’s incredible talent. Or Kurt’s or Jimi’s or Janis’s, some people just get the affliction. All we can do is adapt the way we view this condition, not as a crime or a romantic affectation but as a disease that will kill. We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalisation doesn’t even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call.


I'm not offering solutions - unless we go with fousto's favorite band aid - let's nuke us all.

:s mokin:

[CaptainRaiden]

You just don't get it, do you?
Now, is it because you are obtuse or because you smoked something strong? This is the only question left open in this thread.

Ah yes, blabbering incoherent, irrelevant garbage to deviate from the topic. How unsurprising of you ioan. As henners said, I can probably expect your next post to have the laughing smiley put next to your own "jokes". I'm glad that you, Daniel and fousto can all breathe a sigh of relief now that your children are safe from the terror of Amy Winehouse.


As for your question I will be fair, I've always felt disgust towards idiots.

Now you know how I feel about you.

[Dave B]

Dave there are too many good things in life - she wasn't one of them - get over this trash compactor !! Do you want your daughter to emulate Amy????
I appreciate your concern for my fictional daughter, but you needn't worry. Just because I express sympathy and sadness because someone has squandered both their talent and their life, it doesn't mean I want anybody to follow their example. If anything, Winehouse's downfall should serve as a lesson to anybody suffering with addiction that there is help available if you can only muster the courage to seek it.

Russell Brand's tribute (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman) has already been linked to, but if you missed it I would thoroughly recommend reading every word. If you can't be bothered, at least read the last paragraph:



We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalisation doesn't even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call.

[CaptainRaiden]

[quote="Russell Brand"] Now Amy Winehouse is dead, like many others whose unnecessary deaths have been retrospectively romanticised, at 27 years old. Whether this tragedy was preventable or not is now irrelevant. It is not preventable today. We have lost a beautiful and talented woman to this disease. Not all addicts have Amy&#8217]

FINALLY someone with SOME sense! Thank you race for that link. We don't have to mourn her death like she's a martyr, but we don't have to treat her like a criminal either. It was in fact a wasted life. I've partied hard in my college years. I've never tried harder drugs in my life, never felt the need to. While other friends around me did ALL of it, and paid the price for it by getting hospitalized, after which they were forced to quit. I quit smoking because I knew it was bad for me, and restricted alcohol to only on occasions now to lead a healthier life. I could make those healthy choices because my life's not that sad or depressing, and I don't need these extra "friends". But not everyone's this emotionally strong. I see my old college friends still can't kick the habit, and smoke two Marlboro pack'o 20s a day knowing well that it will ultimately kill them.

I read on Amy's wiki page that she got on the drugs binge, depression and eating disorders after her grandmother's death, who was a stabilizing influence in her life. I've known many friends who were more attached to their grandparents than their parents, and were completely broken at their death. In fact, one guy mourned his grandpa's death more than his own father's. It's probably because they spent their childhood with their grandparents while their parents were out at work. Now, agreed that this is not such a "huge" disaster, but like I said, not everybody is as emotionally strong or insensitive as me and you.

People being happy that someone is gone -- not gone out of the room, but died -- is pretty sad IMO.

[Garry Walker]

How heartless we, as a society, have become to actually be happy about someone dying...
I wouldnt say I am happy that she died, she was not a hardcore criminal or a communist that she deserved to die, but her death leaves me totally cold. No emotions whatsoever, certainly no sadness. She had every chance in her life, she had money, talent and fame, she could have done something with her life, something positive for the society, but because she was an emotional retard, she was unable to stop boozing and using drugs. Pathetic. To be honest though, whenever I read about medics helping druggies who have overdosed, I always rather wish that they would let the idiot die, instead of wasting valueable resources on helping them to live, so that they can OD again.


So, would you say she deserved to die?
I dont think anyone here has said that, although some do seem pretty happy that she died. But those two are not quite the same thing.



We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalisation doesn't even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call.
Here I have this to say - if some people wish to ruin their lives by taking drugs or boozing away their lives, it is not the government`s job to waste money on them, I certainly would not waste one cent on helping a druggie or an alcoholic.


FINALLY someone with SOME sense! Thank you race for that link. We don't have to mourn her death like she's a martyr, but we don't have to treat her like a criminal either. It was in fact a wasted life. I've partied hard in my college years. I've never tried harder drugs in my life, never felt the need to. While other friends around me did ALL of it, and paid the price for it by getting hospitalized, after which they were forced to quit. I quit smoking because I knew it was bad for me, and restricted alcohol to only on occasions now to lead a healthier life. I could make those healthy choices because my life's not that sad or depressing, and I don't need these extra "friends". But not everyone's this emotionally strong.

Well, it is the survival of the fittest.

[Dave B]

Here I have this to say - if some people wish to ruin their lives by taking drugs or boozing away their lives, it is not the government`s job to waste money on them, I certainly would not waste one cent on helping a druggie or an alcoholic.
Actually it is the government's job. Addiction to legal and illegal substances costs the country a fortune in policing, healthcare, criminal justice, and lost productivity and tax revenue. Winehouse was fortunate to have a talent which paid the bills, many addicts fund their drug of choice through crime, creating more innocent victims along the way. It simply doesn't make economic sense - let alone moral sense - to let them continue down that road.

[Daniel]

Tbh I'm not sure I agree with Brands views. He's got quite a cute and cuddly view of addiction which I'm afraid I don't agree with. Like Dave says, Amy was lucky to have a job which paid the bills, but most addicts go around committing crime or stealing from family. Whilst yes, we need to help addicts, people need to use their brains and not start in the first place. I know that sounds simplistic and all but if like myself you never touch drugs then how do you get addicted to them? :confused:

It's like walking into a cage at the zoo with a lion in it, you might walk through and be able to get close to a majestic creature and so on and get out safe, or there's a significant risk you might get torn to shreds so most sane people don't do it....

I know her family blame her ex-Husband, but the only person to blame for Amy taking drugs was Amy.

[Dave B]

Whilst yes, we need to help addicts, people need to use their brains and not start in the first place. I know that sounds simplistic and all but if like myself you never touch drugs then how do you get addicted to them? :confused:


That is, as you expected me to say, overly simplistic. For starters some drugs are perfectly legal, alcohol and nicotine being the most common, and they still have health risks and behavioural problems linked to them not to mention the risk of addiction. Then there's the classic "falling into the wrong crowd" scenario, where peers normalise the use of drugs to the point where the user genuinely doesn't recognise there's any problem.

It's a hugely complicated area, and while it's easy to say "don't start them and you won't get addicted" it's really not that simple. Kids will always experiment with all manner of substances, most of the won't develop an addiction. Some people will turn to drugs after an event such as a death or the breakdown of a relationship, again many of them won't get addicted. But some will, and to take Garry's stance of not "wasting" any money or treatment on them really doesn't help either the addict or society at large.

[Daniel]

That is, as you expected me to say, overly simplistic. For starters some drugs are perfectly legal, alcohol and nicotine being the most common, and they still have health risks and behavioural problems linked to them not to mention the risk of addiction. Then there's the classic "falling into the wrong crowd" scenario, where peers normalise the use of drugs to the point where the user genuinely doesn't recognise there's any problem.

It's a hugely complicated area, and while it's easy to say "don't start them and you won't get addicted" it's really not that simple. Kids will always experiment with all manner of substances, most of the won't develop an addiction. Some people will turn to drugs after an event such as a death or the breakdown of a relationship, again many of them won't get addicted. But some will, and to take Garry's stance of not "wasting" any money or treatment on them really doesn't help either the addict or society at large.

Well i think the key is to stop kids dabbling. Perhaps hard hitting ads (like we get for road safety) are needed.

As always, prevention is better than the cure.

[Retro Formula 1]

Lets look at drugs as some people have a bee in their bonnet about it.

Drug related deaths, including legal and illegal drugs accounts for about 3,000 people. Drugs on this occasion relates to the drugs we are discussing here and not Alcohol or Nicotine. Things like Heroin, Methadone, Ecstasy, Solvents etc.

Now, some people want to turn their back on these people as if they don't exist because it's their fault. They are worthless druggies that made their choice so sod them.

Why is it then that more than 3 times the number that die from drugs actually die from Alcohol related diseases. That's nearly 10,000 people a year. Do we turn our backs on them because they shouldn't drink. It's their choice.

Let's go a bit further then. Cigarettes in the UK account for 100,000 deaths per year at a cost of nearly £2bn. Everyone knows that smoking kills. It is written on every packet so what do we do with them? How many people on here are addicted to the drug nicotine? Has anyone on here lost a close friend or loved one to this addiction.

Come on Fousto, Daniel and the others that criticise drug addicts. Lets see a bit of consistency. We all live in Glass houses and it's easy to criticise "them" without realising you are criticising "us".

[Malbec]

Now, some people want to turn their back on these people as if they don't exist because it's their fault. They are worthless druggies that made their choice so sod them.

Exactly. They are still someone's son or daughter, brother or sister, father or mother.

In many cases people turn to drugs because of things beyond their control in their upbringing. Abusive or lone childhoods, failure to develop stress-coping mechanisms, things like that. And of course some people are simply more exposed to drugs than others. Amy would have had drugs pushed in her direction whether she wanted it or not because of the industry she was in. Kids who live on estates with a drug peddle on each corner are naturally going to be more inclined to try drugs than sheltered middle class types.

The reasons anyone turns to drugs and makes it into a habit are far more complex than simply waking up and thinking "I'll try some heroin and ruin the rest of my life today".

For those reasons I find judgmental comments on Amy Winehouse's death rather revealing about the people making them and not in a good way.

[Daniel]

Lets look at drugs as some people have a bee in their bonnet about it.

Drug related deaths, including legal and illegal drugs accounts for about 3,000 people. Drugs on this occasion relates to the drugs we are discussing here and not Alcohol or Nicotine. Things like Heroin, Methadone, Ecstasy, Solvents etc.

Now, some people want to turn their back on these people as if they don't exist because it's their fault. They are worthless druggies that made their choice so sod them.

Why is it then that more than 3 times the number that die from drugs actually die from Alcohol related diseases. That's nearly 10,000 people a year. Do we turn our backs on them because they shouldn't drink. It's their choice.

Let's go a bit further then. Cigarettes in the UK account for 100,000 deaths per year at a cost of nearly £2bn. Everyone knows that smoking kills. It is written on every packet so what do we do with them? How many people on here are addicted to the drug nicotine? Has anyone on here lost a close friend or loved one to this addiction.

Come on Fousto, Daniel and the others that criticise drug addicts. Lets see a bit of consistency. We all live in Glass houses and it's easy to criticise "them" without realising you are criticising "us".

I neither drink, smoke nor do drugs, so as far as for living in a glass house it would seem that you're barking up the wrong tree. Heck over my life I've maybe had 20 units of alcohol and I haven't had a drink in about 6 years, I've had little sips of things if Caroline says "taste this" but nothing more.

Personally I'd be quite happy if smoking and drinking were banned, though I do feel that the vast majority of people are able to drink responsibly so it would be unfair.

The think you seem to forget is that whilst alcohol causes more deaths, there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more people drinking than using hard drugs and you don't tend to hear of people committing crimes to go out on a Saturday and have a few pints which is far different to how drug addicts behave.

I certainly don't feel that we should turn our backs on these people, everyone is worth saving of course, but I think sometimes we need to stop thinking of excuses for why people lapse into drug use and make it something which is completely socially unacceptable.

[MrJan]

The think you seem to forget is that whilst alcohol causes more deaths, there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more people drinking than using hard drugs and you don't tend to hear of people committing crimes to go out on a Saturday and have a few pints which is far different to how drug addicts behave.

You'd be surprised at quite how widespread drug taking is. Okay it's not as regular as drinking but it's not unusual to go to a club and see a good number of people off their tits on something.

Actually The Times this morning had a thing about Class A drug use and I was amazed at how low the numbers were, because that's certainly not how it seems from my experiences. Maybe I just hang around the wrong places though :mark:

[Roamy]

Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
So, would you say she deserved to die?

Ya I would say that. If I legally smoke 4 packs of cigs a day and die of lung cancer should people mourn - no - could I be classified as a idiot or a addict - certainly. Amy had the money and the ability to help herself. The greatest thing a addict can do is to change their environment - many addicts cannot afford to do that. Rehab centers just give one more contacts to buy drugs. I don't hear the world crying over the Sudanese - Oh I get it Amy's life was worth more. Well if someone needs drugs it is probably the sudanese to help with the pain. Do you think any parents anguish over their childs death is any less important that Amy's. She had the ability to control her destiny and she chose death - good for her because as I said the world does not need her influence.

[Malbec]

but I think sometimes we need to stop thinking of excuses for why people lapse into drug use and make it something which is completely socially unacceptable.

Being a drug addict already is socially unacceptable. Amy Winehouse was a laughing stock while she was alive, as is the guy from the Libertines. Try turning up to work looking a bit under the weather and saying 'sorry, bad batch of heroin last night but I'll shake it off' and compare that to 'sorry, bad hangover' and compare the difference.

These guys end up marginalised from society specifically because society doesn't accept this behaviour, so no need to change anything on that front.

It would be better if drugs were legalised, regulated and taxed. That way addicts wouldn't be driven underground so we'd keep better tabs on them, criminality that thrives around drugs will suffocate and the state can turn something that costs them a lot of money into a revenue neutral enterprise.

[Daniel]

You'd be surprised at quite how widespread drug taking is. Okay it's not as regular as drinking but it's not unusual to go to a club and see a good number of people off their tits on something.

Actually The Times this morning had a thing about Class A drug use and I was amazed at how low the numbers were, because that's certainly not how it seems from my experiences. Maybe I just hang around the wrong places though :mark:

Oh believe me I know how widespread it is. I worked in one place where I'd estimate that about 70% of the people in my team were regularly using marijuana and I'd say perhaps 30 or 40% of the team were using something significantly harder.

[Roamy]

Drugs in America has created it's own economy. I think Politicians know that and because of that the border remains open. This is a sub culture for the ghettos and just think if it all stopped tomorrow. Actually we are degrading our planet so rapidly I may in fact be around for the big cleanse that I believe will come. Sh!t I may have to get with EKI and go find a world dictator. One world order. God even the thought of the UN running the world makes me want to do drugs.

[Daniel]

Being a drug addict already is socially unacceptable. Amy Winehouse was a laughing stock while she was alive, as is the guy from the Libertines. Try turning up to work looking a bit under the weather and saying 'sorry, bad batch of heroin last night but I'll shake it off' and compare that to 'sorry, bad hangover' and compare the difference.

These guys end up marginalised from society specifically because society doesn't accept this behaviour, so no need to change anything on that front.

It would be better if drugs were legalised, regulated and taxed. That way addicts wouldn't be driven underground so we'd keep better tabs on them, criminality that thrives around drugs will suffocate and the state can turn something that costs them a lot of money into a revenue neutral enterprise.

But it's a question of how unacceptable it is.

I agree that legalising drugs would be good in some ways, but the harmful effects of the drugs would still be the same and someone like Winehouse would still be able to ruin her life just the same as she did. .

[Retro Formula 1]

For those reasons I find judgmental comments on Amy Winehouse's death rather revealing about the people making them and not in a good way.

I'm with you on that one. The whole drug issue is secondary to the fact that a person has died in rather a tragic manner. Some people seem to rejoice and use it as an excuse to get on their soapbox. I just think it's sad as is the atrocity in Norway or the terrible situation in Africa.

[Malbec]

But it's a question of how unacceptable it is.

I agree that legalising drugs would be good in some ways, but the harmful effects of the drugs would still be the same and someone like Winehouse would still be able to ruin her life just the same as she did. .

There is a big difference between being a drug addict and being a casual user.

Most people in this country are casual alcohol users. Some are binge users, a small minority are addicts. People in the first two categories still live productive lives. Addicts don't and it doesn't matter that much what drug you're talking about, except that with the nastier drugs there's far less chance of someone being a casual user and not being an addict.

[Malbec]

I just don't think upbringing has a massive influence on people deciding to try things, and unless you have been in that type of environment, I think you'll struggle to understand completely. :)

I wasn't thinking about that kind of upbringing, more about family dynamics and the creation of an addictive type personality through childhood experiences. This can happen regardless of how poor or rich you are.

[Eki]

Drugs in America has created it's own economy. I think Politicians know that and because of that the border remains open. This is a sub culture for the ghettos and just think if it all stopped tomorrow. Actually we are degrading our planet so rapidly I may in fact be around for the big cleanse that I believe will come. Sh!t I may have to get with EKI and go find a world dictator. One world order. God even the thought of the UN running the world makes me want to do drugs.
Actually I've been against a world dictator all the time, saying the US is one or at least trying to be the world dictator. So, if you're not happy with the current world dictator (the US), you'll have to go on your own to find a new one. I've heard the Taliban is against drugs.

[ioan]

Like you feel disgust I feel disgust towards ignorant judgemental people. Someone who says 'good riddance' to someone who has at this point possibly died of a drugs overdose is the epitome of disgusting and it worries me some people have this 'told you so' attitude to things they evidently don't understand. I'm sure you'll ask me what I've been smoking or present me with a laughing smiley face in your next post, but the joke is not on me it seems. Sad IMO.

You also judge Fousto from your own POV. Why should he feel otherwise? Cause you say so?
Should he cry because a junkie died?
Should he respect a junkie?

Sorry but I understand his position, even if his wording is a bit strong.

[ioan]

I'm with you on that one. The whole drug issue is secondary to the fact that a person has died in rather a tragic manner.

I didn't see you coming up with such a position when bin Laden was shot, he was a person too, and he had a family also. He also was a criminal though and that's why it's normal that people were more or less happy with his death all around the world.

Amy Whinehouse was a junkie, and as Fousto pointed it out tenths of thousands of innocent peoples die every year as collateral victims of the illegal drug production and distribution. Thus she was indirectly responsible for those innocent people who lost their lives, so I don't see why anyone has to feel sorry for her. So let's quit the primadonna play.

[ioan]

Not all drug addicts commit crimes to fund their habits either.

But they all are responsible for the collateral victims of the global illegal drug market that they are directly sponsoring, even those who only occasionally consume drugs.
So let's not pity the fouls.

[Retro Formula 1]

I didn't see you coming up with such a position when bin Laden was shot, he was a person too, and he had a family also. He also was a criminal though and that's why it's normal that people were more or less happy with his death all around the world.

Amy Whinehouse was a junkie, and as Fousto pointed it out tenths of thousands of innocent peoples die every year as collateral victims of the illegal drug production and distribution. Thus she was indirectly responsible for those innocent people who lost their lives, so I don't see why anyone has to feel sorry for her. So let's quit the primadonna play.

When Bin Laden was shot I admitted that I was glad but would not celebrate his death and found it rather distasteful that people were whooping in the street. However, it's rather a cheap shot comparing Amy to a man that has masterminded the murder of Thousands of people.

I'm no fan of Amy's and I think she's rather a sad statistic. Her life went horribly wrong and she paid the ultimate price. Does it really need people slagging her off now she's dead? Is this what we as a civilised community feel is acceptable?

I don't know?

[Roamy]

When Bin Laden was shot I admitted that I was glad but would not celebrate his death and found it rather distasteful that people were whooping in the street. However, it's rather a cheap shot comparing Amy to a man that has masterminded the murder of Thousands of people.

I'm no fan of Amy's and I think she's rather a sad statistic. Her life went horribly wrong and she paid the ultimate price. Does it really need people slagging her off now she's dead? Is this what we as a civilised community feel is acceptable?

I don't know?

Do you really know how many innocent people Amy WhiteHorse ruined or led astray?? Do you know how many people's daughters we introduced to drugs by her?? Fu__k no you don't Civilized you call yourself. If you want to cry over someone go to Norway!!

[Roamy]

and while I am at it Retro Formula 1 do you even have the foggiest clue about how many innocent sons and daughters, husband, wives, innocent people that have be slaughtered in Mexico over the WORLDs drug appetite??

[Daniel]

Or how many people have died in slave camps picking cotton, tobacco and coffee over the decades. Unfortunately people who smoke, drink, wear nice clothes don't think about the origins as its irrelevant to them to be honest. I bought 4 t shirts in Primark the other day that were possibly made in a sweatshop in India but we are in a consumer market and unfortunately we don't think about the implications these products have had on peoples lives further down the line. Sure drugs are illegal but they are getting into the country and people will buy them. If we look into the origins of things why are we not blaming the governments of all the countries these drugs passed through for the death of Amy Winehouse?? Surely they failed her as much as she did? Where do you draw the line? As with most of these threads someone has to be blamed it seems.

Come on, you can't compare cotton to heroin or cocaine or whatever.....

[ioan]

Or how many people have died in slave camps picking cotton, tobacco and coffee over the decades. Unfortunately people who smoke, drink, wear nice clothes don't think about the origins as its irrelevant to them to be honest. I bought 4 t shirts in Primark the other day that were possibly made in a sweatshop in India but we are in a consumer market and unfortunately we don't think about the implications these products have had on peoples lives further down the line. Sure drugs are illegal but they are getting into the country and people will buy them. If we look into the origins of things why are we not blaming the governments of all the countries these drugs passed through for the death of Amy Winehouse?? Surely they failed her as much as she did? Where do you draw the line? As with most of these threads someone has to be blamed it seems.


Because dressing =/= getting high on drugs?! What did you smoke?