Top 10 greatest drivers of all time.

[00steven]

I would like to ask a simple question. Who would you choose as your top 10 greatest drivers of all time? F1, American Open Wheel, NASCAR, or whatever it's up to you.

My list:

1. Ayrton Senna
2. A.J. Foyt
3. Mario Andretti
4. Richard Petty
5. Michael Schumacher
6. Dale Earnhardt Sr.
7. Rick Mears (Maybe a bit high to some but he is a hero of mine)
8. Jim Clark
9. Alain Prost
10. Nigel Mansell

Tough leaving off greats like Jeff Gordon, Michael Andretti, Jackie Stewart, etc. but it is what it is. I'm sure many disagree with my list, but I love Indycar more than F1, although I do believe Senna was a very special driver.

Well, I look forward to seeing what you guys think.

[D-Type]

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

[00steven]

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

Absolutely!

Senna - Great talent and car control, hard to find anyone who doesn't agree he is special.

Foyt - No matter what he drove (midgets, Indycar, NASCAR) he won in.

Andretti - An incredible career in both Indycar and in F1, the father of the Andretti dynasty.

Petty - 200 wins and 7 titles in a dominating career.

Schumacher - The most career F1 wins, 7 career World Championships.

Earnhardt Sr. - Raced as hard headed as anyone, yet still regarded highly by his peers for 7 championship titles.

Mears - Winner of 4 Indy 500's and holds the most poles at Indy (6).

Clark - Winner of the 500 in '65, 2 time F1 world champion, and 25 career wins. All this done in eight years.

Prost - 4 titles, 2nd all time in wins.

Mansell - Excelled in F1 winning 31 times and won the Cart championship and nearly the 500 in 1993.

[Rollo]

I can't count. I have 11 in a Top Ten.

Sébastien Loeb - 7 WRC Championships
Jacky Ickx - 6 Le Mans 24 Hours, 1 Spa 24 Hours, 8 F1 victories, 1 Bathurst 1000
Eric van de Poele - 3 Le Mans 24 Hours, 5 Spa 24 Hours
Mario Andretti - 1 F1 Championship, the Daytona 500, USAC national dirt track champion, 24 Hours of daytona, an Indy Car Championship and 1 Indianapolis 500.
Graham Hill - 2 F1 Championships, 1 Spa 24 Hours, 1 Indianapolis 500
Tom Kristensen - 6 Le Mans 24 Hours, 5 12 Hours of Sebring
Michael Schumacher - 7 F1 Championships
Alain Prost - 4 F1 Championships (should have been 7)
Peter Brock - 9 Bathurst wins, 1 Bathurst 24 Hours, 3 ATCC, 1 Round Australia Rally
Richard Petty - 7 NASCAR Championships, 7 Daytona 500s... 200 race wins!
Steve Kinser - 20 US Sprint Car Championships


Senna - Great talent and car control, hard to find anyone who doesn't agree he is special.


No, it's easy. I'm right here :wave:

[intheway]

Tom Kristensen - 6 Le Mans 24 Hours, 5 12 Hours of Sebring


Move Tom up a notch on your list - he's actually won Le Mans 8 times - 6 in a row from 00 to 05.

[Bob Riebe]

Greatest of all time, such a list is subjective to the point of being meaningless.

It is odd, yeah right, that there are no pre-WW II or really pre-sixties drivers in these lists.

[D-Type]

Greatest of all time, such a list is subjective to the point of being meaningless.

It is odd, yeah right, that there are no pre-WW II or really pre-sixties drivers in these lists.

Indeed, such lists are subjective. That is why I asked the authors to say why they had chosen their particular ten.

[00steven]

Greatest of all time, such a list is subjective to the point of being meaningless.

It is odd, yeah right, that there are no pre-WW II or really pre-sixties drivers in these lists.

Not really. I just wanted to see what drivers people consider to be the greatest for something to do. If you don't like it, don't read it.

[vhatever]

The only thing I'm always assured of reading these lisst is Senna being grossly overrated, and prost grossly underrated.

Anyway, Schumacher was better than senna when schumacher was just his first year or two into F1. which is when senna was supposed to be in his prime F1 years. If wet behind the ears schumacher is beating you prime years with an equal or worse carl there is no way you can be better than Schumacher.

[Mark]

Sebastien Loeb - Without peer in his generation.

Colin McRae - Spectacular!

Richard Burns - Often overshadowed by McRae but one of the greats and a career tragically cut short.

[D-Type]

Good point - don't forget the rally drivers!

[Rollo]

Move Tom up a notch on your list - he's actually won Le Mans 8 times - 6 in a row from 00 to 05.

I hadn't ranked them, they were just on the list. Ranking them would be nigh on impossible.

[FAL]

The problem I have with Loeb being described as greatest rally driver of all is that his peers never really conceeded they could not beat him if on equal terms. That is not the case with Eric Carlsson (early 1960s) or Timo Makinen (mid 1960s, and to a lesser extent early 70s), where their peers simply accepted they would be beaten by them if their cars survived.
The jury has to be out on Henri Toivonen too - he may well have become the greatest if he had lived but he was only just showing it and what too many consider one of his greatest performances simply wasn't if you analyse it objectively.

[Bezza]

The only thing I'm always assured of reading these lisst is Senna being grossly overrated, and prost grossly underrated.

Anyway, Schumacher was better than senna when schumacher was just his first year or two into F1. which is when senna was supposed to be in his prime F1 years. If wet behind the ears schumacher is beating you prime years with an equal or worse carl there is no way you can be better than Schumacher.

Clearly he is not over-rated if people are voting for him - they just don't have the same opinion as you!

It is impossible in my eyes to rank Schumacher above Senna as Schumacher never had a competitive team-mate that was allowed to race him / get access to the same car updates. Rubens Barrichello was probably his best team-mate, and although a good driver, is nowhere near a great. Senna had Prost in 88 and 89, and Berger in 90 to 92.

You can't really back up your statement that Schumacher was better than Senna, either. They had different cars. In 92 Senna won 3, Schumacher 1. In 93, Senna won 5, Schumacher 1. How that equates to Schumacher "being better" you need to enlighten me!


Here we go - my top 10. I am heavily F1 focused, I don't watch of other echelons to be honest. I cannot put oval drivers into my list as in my opinion, the skill required is far, far less than series with proper racing tracks - notably F1 as the pinnacle, but also Sports Cars and Touring Cars, and of course Rallying.

1. Ayrton Senna - he is the best driver of all time, his speed over a single lap was breathtaking.

2. Jim Clark - completely dominated the 1960's. Unless his car failed, he won. Barely had to pass anybody because he was so fast!

3. Jackie Stewart - incredibly quick, and very intelligent. His pursuit of improved safety was commendable.

4. Graham Hill - one reason here - Triple Crown. Nobody else has done this - will indeed anybody else ever do it?

5. Mario Andretti - fantastic driver in F1 and had the rare ability to win in pretty much anything!

6. John Surtees - the only man to won world championships on two wheels and four, that stands him out from the rest.

7. Juan Manuel Fangio - brilliant driver, dominated the 1950's

8. Alain Prost - clearly a great driver, not as flamboyant as others, but consistency of his driving was sublime

9. Niki Lauda - to recover from his crash in 1976 and win another championship was stunning, and then to win again 7 years later!

10. Fernando Alonso - the best of our current drivers deserves his place here. Beat Schumacher in 2006 by being a better driver in a lesser car.

[wedge]

Tazio Nuvolari - Godfather and original Drift King. Driving God in the pre-war years.

Jim Clark - quick in anything. Need I say more?

AJ Foyt, Dan Gurney, Mario Andretti - the diversity of the American and European scene, and the hands-on can-do attitude of the first two.

Senna - the purist.

Dale Earnhardt Sr - similar to Senna: dominant, hard racer, bad boy and still had respect from his peers.

Richard Petty - The King.

Klaus Ludwig - top, top driver in tin tops and sportscars. Multiple Le Mans and DTM titles. Sublime to watch.

Peter Brock - Peter Perfect, King of the Mountain, multiple Bathurst champ.

[BDunnell]

The jury has to be out on Henri Toivonen too - he may well have become the greatest if he had lived but he was only just showing it and what too many consider one of his greatest performances simply wasn't if you analyse it objectively.

You mean the 1980 RAC win, I presume?

[FAL]

You mean the 1980 RAC win, I presume?

Yes - I guess it would be hi jacking this thread to go into it deeply. It might also be argued that the 85 RAC was a more impressive result but I think that was as much luck in multiple offs adding up to slightly less than those of the 2nd and 3rd finishers!

[BDunnell]

Yes - I guess it would be hi jacking this thread to go into it deeply. It might also be argued that the 85 RAC was a more impressive result but I think that was as much luck in multiple offs adding up to slightly less than those of the 2nd and 3rd finishers!

I agree completely.

[driveace]

Well Keith,the RAC win in the Lancia,(a new car,that he and Markku had only driven briefly before the event),was one of the worst RAC,s for sheet ice,and Henri rolled,the Lancia too ,on his way to victory,I also think that the result was a great achievement,as the car was supposed to be a bast*rd to drive.The 1980,RAC win was not as gifted as people think,as Hannu realised that there was no way he could win,and although he wanted Henri to have the win,as a repayment for the help Pauli ,gave Hannu in his early rally years,unless Henri went out hannu knew it was behond his grasp.But Paul will tell me if I am wrong

[FAL]

Yes, the thing about 85 RAC was that Toivonen came into what was most definitely Alen's "own" team then and beat him with the new car. I watched Alen in the Worcester service area shout "Eh Giorgio!" - and Pianta came running and spent ages discussing set up etc. whilst Toivonen was ignored - but I think it was luck with offs (and of course Kankuhnen towing him back on) that won it.
In 80, Dunlop lost it for Mikkola rather than anyone else winning it. Paul White says Henri was inspired in Grisedale but he was behind Kullang's Ascona and Waldegard's Celica, neither of which combination of driver/car was then seen as the fastest, when they had their problems there. Kleber, Michelin and Pirelli all starred in the most open RAC ever. Dunlop didn't...

[BDunnell]

Yes, the thing about 85 RAC was that Toivonen came into what was most definitely Alen's "own" team then and beat him with the new car. I watched Alen in the Worcester service area shout "Eh Giorgio!" - and Pianta came running and spent ages discussing set up etc. whilst Toivonen was ignored - but I think it was luck with offs (and of course Kankuhnen towing him back on) that won it.
In 80, Dunlop lost it for Mikkola rather than anyone else winning it. Paul White says Henri was inspired in Grisedale but he was behind Kullang's Ascona and Waldegard's Celica, neither of which combination of driver/car was then seen as the fastest, when they had their problems there. Kleber, Michelin and Pirelli all starred in the most open RAC ever. Dunlop didn't...

Plus, of course, the chances Pond had in both events shouldn't be forgotten either.

[FAL]

Plus, of course, the chances Pond had in both events shouldn't be forgotten either.

Fred Gallagher mentioned elsewhere that Peter Ashcroft's prediction to him at the start in 80 was that Pond would win. I was never sure how driveable the early 6R4 was - too "cammy" to have much advantage on ice over the Lancia in 85?

[D-Type]

Folks,

You are straying a l_o_n_g way off topic. Fascinating as the discussion is, shouldn't it be a thread on Rally History?

Reminder: the topic is "Your top10 drivers" and your reasons for making those choices.

[BDunnell]

I actually think this very interesting discussion deserves its own thread!


Fred Gallagher mentioned elsewhere that Peter Ashcroft's prediction to him at the start in 80 was that Pond would win.

The very same view on Ashcroft's part was mentioned in the narration of ITV's contemporary report on the event.


I was never sure how driveable the early 6R4 was - too "cammy" to have much advantage on ice over the Lancia in 85?

Didn't Pond make a wrong tyre choice on the final night too?

[BDunnell]

Folks,

You are straying a l_o_n_g way off topic. Fascinating as the discussion is, shouldn't it be a thread on Rally History?

Reminder: the topic is "Your top10 drivers" and your reasons for making those choices.

Indeed. Any way the comments about Toivonen could be hived off into a separate thread in the rally forum? It's a discussion I'd very much like to continue, but agree that this isn't the place.

[The Black Knight]

My top ten drivers are as follow with the top 5 in no particular order as I have never been able to decide who the best is and I probably never will either.
Anyway, the list:
Ayrton Senna – Tragically robbed of what could have been titanic battles between Senna and Schumacher – Always a candidate for best ever no matter who comes along in the future
Micheal Schumacher – Intelligent, fast, consistent and technically magnificient 7 times WDC
Alain Prost – Intelligent, fast, 4 times WDC
Jim Clark – Give him a car that was 2nd or 3rd best on the grid and he’d win with it. Give him a quad bike and he’d do something amazing with it.
Juan Manuel Fangio – 5 times F1 WDC champion. Who knows what he would have done if he was born 20 years later?
Colin McRae – 1 time WRC champion. I’ll never forget the first time I saw him drive, he simply woo’d me
Tazio Nuvolari – An incredibly talented individual that drove both bikes and cars. If only he were born in the more modern era I believe he would be considered by many others as an all time great too.
Valentino Rossi – probably the best ever on a motorbike. It’s incredible some of the things he has done on a bike.
Richard Burns – the computer. Can’t say enough of this talent and a career that was tragically cut short. If he were around I doubt Loeb would have 7 WRC Championships.
John Surtees – as someone said above – he won championships on two wheels and four

[Mintexmemory]

1. Not old enough to have seen him but from the film archives Nuvolari stands head and shoulders above his contemporaries pre WW2
2. Sir Stirling Moss. Dutiful No2 to Fangio but an amazing record in all forms of racing
3 J M Fangio 5 times world champion at a time when the driver made a difference and mechanical reliability was hit or miss
4 Jim Clark. Indy and 2 x WC winner, GP Victories record holder at the time of his death and arguably had stffer opposition in the form of Surtees, Hill, Brabham and Hulme from 62-67. Almiost certainly would have dominated '68 in the Lotus 49 and would have performed well in the Turbine car at Indy.
5 Ronnie Peterson -google the story about the customer March F1 test
6 Vic Elford Strange choice you might think but in 68 he scored F1 points in the dog that was the Cooper-BRM in his first GP, won the Monte Carlo Rally and the Group 6 championship events at Daytona and the Targa Florio (which performance is legendary). The ultimate all-rounder at a time when JYS had started the trend towards specialisation.
One of the handfull of drivers who could tame the Porsche 917.
7. Senna- Beat his contemporaries and the FIA!
8 Schumacher Dominant for longer than anyone before or since
9 Loeb See Schumacher
10 Juha Kankunnen imho the best rally driver until Loeb re-wrote the book

[BDunnell]

6 Vic Elford Strange choice you might think but in 68 he scored F1 points in the dog that was the Cooper-BRM in his first GP, won the Monte Carlo Rally and the Group 6 championship events at Daytona and the Targa Florio (which performance is legendary). The ultimate all-rounder at a time when JYS had started the trend towards specialisation.

I am delighted to see someone make mention here of Vic Elford. His record of success in completely different formulae in the first few months of 1968 is truly remarkable (you missed out, by the way, the fact that he won the first round of that year's British Saloon Car Championship too!) yet represents only part of his career's achievements. A truly great driver.

[Mintexmemory]

I am delighted to see someone make mention here of Vic Elford. His record of success in completely different formulae in the first few months of 1968 is truly remarkable (you missed out, by the way, the fact that he won the first round of that year's British Saloon Car Championship too!) yet represents only part of his career's achievements. A truly great driver.

To be accurate he only won his class at Brands Hatch (Ford Cortina iirc) in the BSCC (support race for the F1 Race of Champions). The o/a race was won by Brian "Yogi" Muir in a Falcon - I was there ;)

[BDunnell]

To be accurate he only won his class at Brands Hatch (Ford Cortina iirc) in the BSCC (support race for the F1 Race of Champions). The o/a race was won by Brian "Yogi" Muir in a Falcon - I was there ;)

Ah, I see! Thanks for the correction. I thought he was also driving a 911 on that occasion?

Anyway, glad to see another Elford enthusiast here.

[AndyRAC]

I am delighted to see someone make mention here of Vic Elford. His record of success in completely different formulae in the first few months of 1968 is truly remarkable (you missed out, by the way, the fact that he won the first round of that year's British Saloon Car Championship too!) yet represents only part of his career's achievements. A truly great driver.

I'm another to agree - just think about what he did? Quite incredible really, a fantastic and an underrated driver. Personally, I rate drivers with this versatility as the best - not those that specialise in one category.

[FAL]

With Elford, it got to the stage of "whatever is he going to do next that will impress me as much?" You couldn't really script that list of different achievements!
I'm currently researching works Mk1 Lotus Cortina rally cars for a new web site. He might also have won 6 or 7 top rallies in the brief 18months the Mk1 Lotus Cortina had a decent rear end. 2 Alpines, 2 RACs, Acropolis, Flowers etc. The list of mechanical failures and other bizarre things got beyond belief. No wonder he wanted out.
I won't attribute this comment but it was allegedly made on the 66 RAC:
"So, Vic, what do you think of Jimmy's (Clark's) performance so far?"
" If he was getting the help I'm getting, he'd be out by now and if I was getting the help he's getting I'd be leading".

[Mintexmemory]

Ah, I see! Thanks for the correction. I thought he was also driving a 911 on that occasion?

Anyway, glad to see another Elford enthusiast here.

I'm glad to say you are correct and my memory was flawed - he was driving a 911, finishing 2nd in both heats behind Muir. Looks like it was too long ago for me :)
3 weeks later I saw Jacky Ickx and Brian Redman win the BOAC 500 (Jacky just missed out on my list) and I do remember, vividly, the feeling when we learned that Jim Clark had been killed.

[AAReagles]

With Elford, it got to the stage of "whatever is he going to do next that will impress me as much?" You couldn't really script that list of different achievements!.... The list of mechanical failures and other bizarre things got beyond belief. No wonder he wanted out.
I won't attribute this comment but it was allegedly made on the 66 RAC:
"So, Vic, what do you think of Jimmy's (Clark's) performance so far?"
" If he was getting the help I'm getting, he'd be out by now and if I was getting the help he's getting I'd be leading".

:laugh:

[BDunnell]

With Elford, it got to the stage of "whatever is he going to do next that will impress me as much?" You couldn't really script that list of different achievements!
I'm currently researching works Mk1 Lotus Cortina rally cars for a new web site. He might also have won 6 or 7 top rallies in the brief 18months the Mk1 Lotus Cortina had a decent rear end. 2 Alpines, 2 RACs, Acropolis, Flowers etc. The list of mechanical failures and other bizarre things got beyond belief. No wonder he wanted out.
I won't attribute this comment but it was allegedly made on the 66 RAC:
"So, Vic, what do you think of Jimmy's (Clark's) performance so far?"
" If he was getting the help I'm getting, he'd be out by now and if I was getting the help he's getting I'd be leading".

I hadn't seen this before now! Splendid post, FAL.

[A Prost F1]

Alain Prost is brutally underrated.

[Don Capps]

I have no idea who the "top 10 greatest drivers of all time" are/were and really do not spend any time worrying about it. However, these lists tend to be quite predictable in most ways in that drivers from the distant past are usually rarely mentioned and grand prix/formula 1 types usually dominate.

Rudi Caracciola, Bernd Rosemeyer, Tazio Nuvolari, Hermann Lang, Guy Moll, Louis Chiron, Achille Varzi, along with Wilbur Shaw and Rex Mays are just a few of the worthies from that era, for instance.

Most people tend to airily dismiss Barney Oldfield and will happily find no end of ways to criticize and denigrate him, but during the course of my current research I have come to have far more regard for and an appreciation of Oldfield the racer than I never imagined I would have. He was a far better racing driver than he is often given credit for being. Indeed, few of his critics would give him credit for any of his actual accomplishments. But, the one driver of his era whose name still resonates is his. I find that an interesting bit of insight on both Oldfield and how that era is remembered.

Ralph de Palma, Earl Cooper, Eddie O'Donnell, Eddie Pullen, George Robertson, Tommy Milton, Jimmy Murphy, Louis Chevrolet, and Johnny Aitken are some the worthy names from an era rarely considered.

Red Byron, Lee Petty, Fireball Roberts, Tim Flock, Fred Lorenzen, David Pearson, and Curtis Turner are just a few of the stock car drivers I give considerable thought to -- especially the latter -- as outstanding talents as racers.

Thinking about Dan Gurney, Parnelli Jones, Mark Donohue, A.J. Foyt, and Rodger Ward leads to Mario Andretti and Al Unser, Sr., along with... well, you begin to get the picture.

It is nice to the rallying types get their share of recognition. In that realm, it has always been Erik Carlsson....

[FAL]

I often struggled to decide whether Erik Carlssson should be number one. Well, no I didn't, I only really considered "best rally driver ever" when someone claimed Loeb was the only choice...
The problem is Erik only drove Saab (to all intents). I do get the feeling if he had signed for Ford or BMC or anyone else with a winning car when he had pen poised we might not be debating it - it would be certain. Then I wonder if he had quite the same degree of madness that made Timo Makinen my choice...
Interesting to see NASCAR assessed. I observed it closely in 78-80 living in the USA and I had great difficulty in assessing drivers in the then Grand National division. Crew Chiefs, yes - this was when "Suitcase" Jake Elder moved from team to team and seemed to have each winning within a couple of races. David Pearson is the only one listed in the post above I actually saw race - and he was by then not doing the short tracks (and was sacked by the Wood Brothers at spring Darlington, only to come back and win the fall race in front of my own eyes as temporary stand in for a rookie Dale Earnhart in the No.5 car - you couldn't write scripts like that!).

[F1boat]

Very interesting topic. Such lists are hugely subjective, but fun nevertheless.
My list includes:
1. Michael Schumacher
Dominated the most prestigious motorsport in the world for many, many years. In his prime, his pace was awesome and his consistency ominous. Even today his passion for the sport deserves respect.
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
5 championships can't be a coincidence. I have only read about him, but obviously he was phenomenal, even more dominating that Michael, although with less championship titles.
3. Sebastien Loeb
Makes winning the WRC to look very easy.
4-5 Alain Prost/ Ayrton Senna
The eternal rivals in Formula One, very different in style, but very successful. I think that their rivalry has no clear winner and that's why I can't separate them.
6. Mario Andretti
Seemed that he can win in any racing car, Indy Car, Formula One, NASCAR... this is a very rare and special gift.
7. Richard Petty
200 wins in NASCAR is mind-blowing.
8. A.G. Foyt
Don't know much about him, but obviously he was a special talent, if he has so many wins in Indy Car.
9. Sir Jackie Stewart
I have read a lot about this guy, including his memories. Seems to me that he was the most successful driver of his time, and his time was rough for drivers, with deadly races and unsafe cars. Also, he is a class act.
10. Nigel Mansell
I am a bit biased here, because he won the first Formula One race I ever watched (the 1992 German Grand Prix) and from what I watched he always had the pace, but was unlucky. Also, to win the Indy Car championship immediately after you won the F1 crown is pretty special IMO.

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[slorydn1]

I dont know how I missed this awesome thread as its been here for so long.

Here's mine (and in no particular order so just because 1 is mentioned ahead of another doesn't mean I think that one is better, only that they came to mind first as I was typing). The numbers next to the names are there only to keep me within the parameters of the question, lol.

1) Dale Earnhardt, Sr-76 Sprint Cup wins, 7 Sprint Cup Championships, 97 combined NASCAR wins, Daytona 500 winner: Truly lived up to his nickname, the Intimidator. Was one of the few drivers in NASCAR who was able to take a 15th place car and finish in the top 10 with it, or a top 5 out of 10th place car. The word QUIT just wasn't in his vocabulary

2) Richard Petty-The King. 200 Sprint Cup Wins, 7 Sprint Cup Championships, 7 time Daytona 500 winner. Unless David Pearson was in the same race, the question of the day wasn't who was going to win, but really who was racing for second place.

3) Ayrton Senna- 3 WDC's, 41 Formula 1 victories in only 161 starts (which is a .254 win percentage) How many MORE would he have had if the cars of the day were more reliable (he DNF'd 64 times). Watching him manhandle a car was liking watching an artist. Oh, and no fewer than 6 victories at Monaco, to boot.

4) Michael Schumacher-7 WDC's. 91 Formula 1 Victories in 290 starts (.314 win percentage). When he retired after 2006 his win pct was .367. Absolutely domniating in his era, holds more f1 records than any driver-period. 5 wins at Monaco, too.

5) Mario Andretti-1 WDC and 19 F1 victories, 4 "Indy Car" Championships, 52 "Indy Car" wins, 1967 Daytona 500 winner, 1969 Indy 500 winner. As far as I know, he is the ONLY driver in the world who has won an F1 WDC, Indy 500, and Daytona 500. Oh yeah, he also has a class win in the 24 Hours of Le Mans (1995), and an Overall win in the 24 Hours of Daytona (1972), 3 wins in the 12 hours of Sebring (1967,1970,1972). An extremely versatile driver.

6) Tony Stewart- 3 Sprint Cup Championships, 46 Sprint Cup wins, 58 combined NASCAR wins, 1997 Indy Car Championship, 2 time Brickyard 400 winner (2005, 2007). Has won multiple times on every type of track NASCAR races on, and is the only driver that has championship trophies from both NASCAR and Indy Car in his trophy case.

7) Juan Manuel Fangio-5 WDC's, 22 Formula 1 Victories (in only 51 starts, a .431 win pctg). Until the Schu came along, Fangio was the measuring stick for DECADES when it came to WDC's.

8) Rick Mears-4 time Indy 500 winner. All that needs to be said.

9) David Pearson-3 Sprint Cup Championships, 105 Sprint Cup wins, 2 time Daytona 500 winner (1971, 1976). Second all time in cup wins to the King, which is even MORE astounding when one considers that for the major portion of his career he was a PART TIME DRIVER.

10) AJ Foyt-He was the first driver I can remember rooting for as a kid. 7 "Indy Car" Championships, 67 "Indy Car" wins, 4 Indy 500 Wins, 7 Sprint Cup wins, 1971 Daytona 500 Winner, 1967 24 Hours of Le Mans winner, 2 time 24 hours of Daytona winner, and also the 12 hours of Sebring (1985). He is the ONLY driver that has won the Indy 500, Daytona 500, 24 hours of Le Mans and the 24 hours of Daytona (though the argument can be made that Andretti may have duplicated that feat with his class win at Le Mans-I guess it depends on how much one values a class win).

Like I said in the beginning of this post, this was not done in any particular order, it was just the order they popped up in my head as I was typing. I am sorry I don't have any rally drivers on this list, as I have never had the opportunity to follow rally so I know nothing about the drivers. I am sure there are some who should be ranked up there, but I don't know who they are. In any event, this is just my list, and it's not the definitive be all and end all.

[iva.rpm]

1 - Ayrton Senna
2 - Tazio Nuvolari
3 - Jim Clark
4 - Graham Hill
5 - Jackie Stewart
6 - Sandro Munari
7 - Jacky Ickx
8 - Juha Kankkunen
9 - Rick Mears
10 - Dale Earnhardt

[D-Type]

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list


1 - Ayrton Senna
2 - Tazio Nuvolari
3 - Jim Clark
4 - Graham Hill
5 - Jackie Stewart
6 - Sandro Munari
7 - Jacky Ickx
8 - Juha Kankkunen
9 - Rick Mears
10 - Dale Earnhardt

iva.rpm,
Welcome to the history forum.
In future can I ask you to please read a thread before posting to it.

[Volvo in Motorsport]

For me it is Stig Blomqvist!!

He is born in 1946. The first rally he entered he finnished 2nd in a Volvo 544.
He has won the Swedish Rally Championship in 1971,-73, -74, -75, -76, -78, -80, -82, and 1994.


In 1983 he won the Swedish Rallycross Championship.


He won the Swedish Hillclimb Championship in 1982, -83, -87, -88, -89, -93.

In 1990 he won the Swedish Group A Racing Championship.

He raced a M.A.N. in the European Truckracing Championship (Cant remember the year. ) He won the Race of Champions in 1989 and 1990.


In 1984 he became the World Rally Champion, he also won the first victory in a turbocharged car in the World Rally Championship in 1979. It was in a SAAB 99 Turbo, in the Swedish Rally. He has also won the Swedish Rally 7 times.


In 1996 he finnished 3rd in the R.A.C. Rally, in a frontwheel drive Skoda!!


In 2002 he finnished 4th overall in Pikes Peak. And he won the La Carerra Panamericana in a Studebaker, in 2009...........
In 2009 he was 63 years old, and he is still racing today!!

[navigator]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I would say Sebastien Loeb, Jim Clark, Schumi, Fangio etc . I doubt that we will see any driver equal Seb Loeb's records in our lives. I rate Jim Clark because his driving was awesome in any car. Had tragedy not struck, I am sure he would have been number 1 on everybody's list

[navigator]

Jim Cark. On the rally side, the blindingly quick guys who survived in rallying in the crazy years were Walter Rohl, Ari Vatenen, Stig Blomquist. In more quiet era's Juha Kankkunen, Tommi Makinen, Roger Clark, Colin Mc Rae, Hannu Mikkola. Schumi and Fangio too.

[Mikey G]

Senna
Lauda
Clark
Andretti
Fangio
Prost
Schumacher
Donahue
Foyt
Belloff
Earnhardt\Tony Stewart

[BDunnell]

In 1996 he finnished 3rd in the R.A.C. Rally, in a frontwheel drive Skoda!!

Few drives in motorsport have given me as much pleasure as did that! What a superb exhibition of handling an underpowered, two-wheel-drive car. Proves you don't need four-wheel-drive and a lot of power to be exciting.

[D-Type]

1 - Ayrton Senna
2 - Tazio Nuvolari
3 - Jim Clark
4 - Graham Hill
5 - Jackie Stewart
6 - Sandro Munari
7 - Jacky Ickx
8 - Juha Kankkunen
9 - Rick Mears
10 - Dale Earnhardt

Please read the second posting on this thread

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

[AndyRAC]

Few drives in motorsport have given me as much pleasure as did that! What a superb exhibition of handling an underpowered, two-wheel-drive car. Proves you don't need four-wheel-drive and a lot of power to be exciting.

Look at some of the in car footage - completely calm and in control. Fabulous effort, and his interviews were cool, and calm personified. And if I remember rightly, one of the other Skodas, Emil Triner, had the fastest time on the long Hafren stage.

Slightly off topic, but I wish the WRC was set up to enable lightweight 2WD cars to be competitive over a season, so a more even split of Tarmac/ Gravel.

[BDunnell]

Look at some of the in car footage - completely calm and in control. Fabulous effort, and his interviews were cool, and calm personified. And if I remember rightly, one of the other Skodas, Emil Triner, had the fastest time on the long Hafren stage.

Slightly off topic, but I wish the WRC was set up to enable lightweight 2WD cars to be competitive over a season, so a more even split of Tarmac/ Gravel.

I agree completely. Of course, the WRC was very briefly like that — in 1987, the first year after the end of Group B as the leading category. No-one really seemed to notice, given the sense of anti-climax the Group A cars seemed to generate, but I thought it was a great season. Three performances above all others stand out — Jean Ragnotti in the Renault 11 Turbo on the Portuguese Rally, Pentti Airikkala in an Opel Kadett GSi on the Manx International, and Louise Aitken-Walker in the Peugeot 205GTi on the RAC. Just like Blomqvist on that 1996 RAC, all were superb exhibitions of spectacular front-wheel-drive motoring in underpowered machinery, and on three very different events to boot.

[William Sanders]

My ten best ALL-TIME are:

1: Mario Andretti
2: AJ Foyt
3: Richard Petty
4: Michael Schumacher
5: Alain Prost
6: Dale Earnhart
7: Ayrton Senna
8: Jimmy Clark
9: Rick Mears
10:Jackie Stewart

I chose my list in an ALL-TIME format as career achievements over time. Mario gets my vote as number one because no other major racer in history has won races and championships in so many types of cars over so many years. The same holds true for Foyt and Petty who rate high in my book because of what they accomplished over so much time. Men like Senna and Clark may have been the most brilliant in their own time but did so in a relatively short time span (tragically in both cases). Schumacher or Prost would rate higher on a different type of list - say the greatest ten years - but Schumey did have a whole team built around him. Soon a young German named Vettel and an American named Johnson may crack this list.

[oversteer]

I do not know enough to accurately rate the drivers (though I suppose I could fall back on tallies of wins). However, there is one driver who impressed me with his rapid return to racing after a serious accident:

Niki Lauda

To suffer serious injuries on a track noted for its treacherousness and immediately jump back into the sport is impressive to me. I look forward to seeing the film later this year (Rush), and I hope it will be interesting and well presented.

[driveace]

Just to add a small note here.
I was up in Duns a couple of weeks ago to watch the Jim Clark Rally,and took two friends to show then Jims grave in Chirnside Cemetary.There was a florist putting flowers on Jims grave.I assumed that the Motor Club who ran the rally paid for them ,so I asked him.
He said NO,Jims sister is still alive,and she comes into my shop every month and pays for flowers to be put on Jims grave every two weeks from May until October Every year .
As regards Stig ,I have been in a lift with Stig,chatted for over 45 minutes with him in Cyprus,spoke with him at last years McRea stages maybe 2011,got footage of all the events when he did the rallsprints in late 80s,and he is sensational ,and a nice guy too. Iwould say maybe the best rally driver ever and I worked with Henri and rated him way above anybody else even though I may be biased

[Don Capps]

These lists tend to say far more about the person posting the choices, the timing of the topic, and the state of the forum (or magazine) than anything else.

The choices are opinions, informed or otherwise, quite subjective, and rarely very informative -- an observation derived from seeing dozens upon dozens (although it seems more like hundred upon hundreds if not thousands upon thousands...) of threads on this topic and its variations.

Personally, I have not a clue as to whom the "top 10 greatest drivers of all time" might be, nor do I waste much time pondering such things, in great part because I really do not care.

That there have been "great" drivers is, even I would suggest, a given, although such a superlative is often much abused by its being bantered about so readily by some, confusing "great" and "successful," which some would suggest are not the same at all, although some succeed at being both.

Some that might be considered as being "great" may not be necessarily very admirable, whereas some of those worthy of admiration might never be considered as "greats" even though they should be.

It never ceases to amaze me that someone still competing can be even considered as a superlative such as "great," given that it takes the passage of time to consider and then make such distinctions. Of course, that rarely bothers anyone given the very nature of these discussions in the first place.

Nor does "liking" someone automatically make him a nominee for greatness.

There is also a tendency to omit those beyond a Certain Time or in various modes of automotive sport, as well as there being a very marked trend to focus almost solely on one form of racing -- a redundent comment from above, but one worth repeating since it indicates the blinders that more often than not make such things even more irrelevant than they already are.

Just a few thoughts on the topic.

[zako85]

I don't know where he would fit in, but this list probably has to include somewhere Seb Loeb and who knows maybe a few other rally drivers, perhaps not all of WRC fame, but also from Dakar rally, hill climb, etc? Also Graham Hill could be worthy to be on the list, having won the triple crown of the motorsports.

[zako85]

I can't count. I have 11 in a Top Ten.

Sébastien Loeb - 7 WRC Championships
Jacky Ickx - 6 Le Mans 24 Hours, 1 Spa 24 Hours, 8 F1 victories, 1 Bathurst 1000
Eric van de Poele - 3 Le Mans 24 Hours, 5 Spa 24 Hours
Mario Andretti - 1 F1 Championship, the Daytona 500, USAC national dirt track champion, 24 Hours of daytona, an Indy Car Championship and 1 Indianapolis 500.
Graham Hill - 2 F1 Championships, 1 Spa 24 Hours, 1 Indianapolis 500
Tom Kristensen - 6 Le Mans 24 Hours, 5 12 Hours of Sebring
Michael Schumacher - 7 F1 Championships
Alain Prost - 4 F1 Championships (should have been 7)
No, it's easy. I'm right here :wave:


I'll bite... To begin, I'll dare to say it should not have been 7 for Prost. It seems like Prost fans now have some kind of Schumacher envy? Prost won 4, and the 1989 one was extremely controversial as he initiated the championship deciding collision at Suzuka and the behind the door politics at FIA ensured that Senna is disqualified from Suzuka, thus unable to challenge for the title. So formally Prost won 4 titles, but it really should have been 3 IMO. Should have Prost won the 1990 title? I don't think so, not with the lane swap at the starting grid that he was granted at 1990 Suzuka GP.

In fact, I can argue the reverse. If Senna lived and raced to the age of Mansel's or Prost's retirements, he could have easily eclipsed Fangio and our days's Schumacher. Senna won 3 WDCs, but it could have been 6 since he died still too early in his career. Had Senna not died and stayed in Williams from 1994 on, he could have a chance to win 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997, since Williams was a dominant car from the late 1994 for years, exiting the world of F1 with 6-7 titles to Schumacher's 5-6 titles.

In conclusion, long live Prost-Senna rivalry!

[D-Type]

Point of fact: Prost was not granted a lane swap at Suzuka in 1990

1988 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1989 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1990 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1991 - Pole on the left (Berger) - and ironically in 2nd place on the right we find Senna

[zako85]

Point of fact: Prost was not granted a lane swap at Suzuka in 1990

1988 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1989 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1990 - Pole on the right (Senna)

Apologies. Should have researched more before posting this. However, you may have heard of that whole dispute. Senna won the pole position and demanded that the pole position has to be on the clean side of the race track. This petition was refused. This was interpreted as a favoritism towards Prost. Starting on the clean lane is extremely important. As many remember, as recently as 2012 USGP, Ferrari was willing to throw Massa under a bus to move Alonso one position up onto a clean lane.

In the light of this I do wonder, why didn't pole sitter in 1989 and 1988 complain about his side of grid? Was the racing line in a different side back then for some reason? Or perhaps Senna didn't possess this wisdom before the 1989 GP?

[D-Type]

Yes, just part of the mythology that has grown up around Senna.

Remember that under the regulations at the time a driver could not make such a request - it had to be his entrant. So the scene in the Senna documentary where he accosts the Clerk of the Course [?] in his car is very illuminating. It tells us something of how Senna viewed his self importance. It offers one reason why the request was not granted.

[musyarofah]

-Michael Schumacher
-Mario Andretti
-Aryton Senna
-Carlos Sainz
-Jack Brabham
-Niki Lauda
-Alain Prost
-Dale Earnhardt Sr.
-A.J. Foyt
-Graham Hill

off course it's just my subjective

[D-Type]

Musyarofah, welcome to the History Forum.

Threads on here tend to hang around for a long time and it's worth reading them through before posting. Did you read post #2?

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

thanks for all information about motorsport.

[Ranger]

Yes, just part of the mythology that has grown up around Senna.

Remember that under the regulations at the time a driver could not make such a request - it had to be his entrant. So the scene in the Senna documentary where he accosts the Clerk of the Course [?] in his car is very illuminating. It tells us something of how Senna viewed his self importance. It offers one reason why the request was not granted.

As a side note, I just watched the first 20 minutes of that film.

Any 'documentary' that includes the phrase, "He would take the car beyond its design capabilities" should be viewed with caution.

[samreddevilz]

For me it's look like ;

1. Schumacher
2. Senna
3. Vettel
4. Prost
5. Hamilton
6. Alonso
7. Barrichelo
8. Kimi
9. Foyt
10. Webber

[D-Type]

sammreddevilz,

Welcome to the History Forum.

Threads on here tend to hang around for a long time and it's worth reading them through before posting. Did you read post #2?

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

[Don Capps]

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

I am getting the distinct notion that the of writing sentences is, perhaps, a bridge too far for many...

[keysersoze]

I know so little about rally drivers, so my opinion is clearly limited. So, in no particular order:
Fangio
Clark
Mario Andretti
Foyt
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Stewart
Vukovich
Tie for 10th: Alonso, Vettel, Al Unser, Bobby Unser, Alberto Ascari

[vhatever]

I think it's fool's errand to fairly compare people like Fangio(even up to Clark) with people in the more modern era of F1. Back then it was more about having giant balls and being at peace with your possible death in any given race. Today it's more about how close to the "edge" you can push your car. The edge merely being the point where you lose control -- with a relatively minor chance of a serious injury.

[D-Type]

I know so little about rally drivers, so my opinion is clearly limited. So, in no particular order:
Fangio
Clark
Mario Andretti
Foyt
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Stewart
Vukovich
Tie for 10th: Alonso, Vettel, Al Unser, Bobby Unser, Alberto Ascari
Hi, keysersoze,

It's nice to see you posting on the History forum.

Did you read the posts above yours and Post #2, which says:

To make this more interesting, can I suggest that people should write a couple of sentences about each driver they list

Anybody can write a list - it's the reason behind the choices that people will be interested in

[pertti_jarla]

Putting aside the number of victories & other merits, and concentrating on sheer driving skill, some names from 1950s-70s come to mind. I don't know other eras that well. I would consider the best judges to be F1 drivers themselves, and top motor writers like Denis Jenkinson.

1. Alberto Ascari
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Stirling Moss
There seems to have been quite a contemporary agreement on the virtuosity of these three.

4. Jim Clark
5. Dan Gurney. Jim Clark mentioned that Gurney is his most talented rival.
6. Jackie Stewart, from 1968 onwards: the '68 Nürburgring victory sounds pretty formidable.
7. Emerson Fittipaldi. Everyone seems to agree that he was a great driver, and would have won much more without Copersucar.

Of the more recent decades, I am convinced that at least Gilles Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher would have been greats in any era.

[lars75]

My top 10:

1 Gilles Villeneuve
2 Hunt
3 Senna
4 Raikonnen
5 Vettel
6 Hamilton
7 Piquet sr
8 Schumacher (Benetton time)
9 J.P. Montoya
10 Verstappen

[Mintexmemory]

My top 10:

1 Gilles Villeneuve
2 Hunt
3 Senna
4 Raikonnen
5 Vettel
6 Hamilton
7 Piquet sr
8 Schumacher (Benetton time)
9 J.P. Montoya
10 Verstappen

Just to remind you there is meant to be a reasoned narative to justify your choices. I would be really interested to know how you arrived at Hunt in preference to Lauda, Montoya v Hakkinen and Verstappen against almost anyone, but let's say Tom Kristensen.