2011 German Grand Prix THREAD

[gloomyDAY]

Vettel is my man for the win. This is my bonus GP in my Fantasy GP Team, so the Bulls better come charging back to the top!

Rosberg. How much luckier can a guy get? (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/7/12312.html)

[F1boat]

I think that Vettel is most likely to win, too.

[Donney]

Vettel will most likely be the winner but I hope someone else will be the first, Alonso hopefully and if not any of the Mclarens....

[steveaki13]

Safe bet on Vettel I think, but lets hope if he does win thats its through a tough race, not a stroll away from the field.

[gloomyDAY]

I hope this isn't a bluff by McLaren.

McLaren confident of leading fight against Red Bull in Germany - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192)

They better come out swinging this weekend if they want to get a shot at any title.

[Hawkmoon]

I hope this isn't a bluff by McLaren.

McLaren confident of leading fight against Red Bull in Germany - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192)

They better come out swinging this weekend if they want to get a shot at any title.

So what was their excuse for being so far off the pace in Valencia (I think it was Valencia) before all the EBD shananigans? They've been slow with both sets of EBD rules so I call bull****.

[Dave B]

Interesting if true from @willbuxton:

Massive controversy in Germany. 10 teams in contravention of FIA regulations. So far only Lotus and HRT are legal (I think). No joke.

[gloomyDAY]

Interesting if true from @willbuxton:

Massive controversy in Germany. 10 teams in contravention of FIA regulations. So far only Lotus and HRT are legal (I think). No joke.lmao! I hope this is a joke, but wouldn't be all that surprised to see the FIA get their panties in a bunch.

[Dave B]

Now reporting Virgin also legal.

[Dave B]

The issue, incredibly, is driver overalls. FIA compliance must be stitched to collars. Screen prints are thus illegal.


Oh. Teacup / storm situation.

[steveaki13]

:dozey:

[gloomyDAY]

The issue, incredibly, is driver overalls. FIA compliance must be stitched to collars. Screen prints are thus illegal.


Oh. Teacup / storm situation. :dozey:

[intheway]

The issue, incredibly, is driver overalls. FIA compliance must be stitched to collars. Screen prints are thus illegal.


They'd better not change that regulation during the weekend. Otherwise there'll be war!

[Hawkmoon]

Anybody know any good German seamstresses? If you do, point them in the direction of the Nurburgring. There's work to be had!

[Retro Formula 1]

Well, Ferrari look on the pace from the off but McLaren are a second off in first practice. Doesn't bode well.

[SGWilko]

Well, Ferrari look on the pace from the off but McLaren are a second off in first practice. Doesn't bode well.

Yeah, but I bet their sewing machine for overall compliance is the fastest in the pitlane........ ;)

[The Black Knight]

I hope this isn't a bluff by McLaren.

McLaren confident of leading fight against Red Bull in Germany - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192)

They better come out swinging this weekend if they want to get a shot at any title.

The title is over for McLaren and both its drivers. McLaren simply aren't good enough. They haven't produced a fast enough car this year.

Looks like it will be a battle between Ferrari and RBR this weekend. I am not a fan of his but I hope Alonso wins again. It would add a bit of spice at least to the championship.

[tfp]

I would PMSL if webber won this GP:-)

Nice post and thread too.

[Retro Formula 1]

I would PMSL if webber won this GP:-)

Webber does seem to pull something out of the bag when he feels harshly done by. Remember the "not bad for a #2 driver quote"?

[Retro Formula 1]

Yeah, but I bet their sewing machine for overall compliance is the fastest in the pitlane........ ;)

Well, "Label-gate" threatens to turn the world of F1 upside down.

Teams tweak overalls to comply with FIA regulations - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93217)

Ferrari, Mercedes and FI were flouting the rules and should be punished accordingly. I suggest a fine of $100m each and do McLaren as well for the sake of continuity ;)

[SGWilko]

I would PMSL if webber won this GP:-)

Might I suggest you watch the GP whilst 'on the throne' to avoid possible embarrassment of the trouser dept, Justin Case.

[Sarah]

P1 & 2 - what a load of lock-ups !!

[mstillhere]

I dont think so. Ferrari can win several battles but the war is already lost and it was lost right after the first GP unfortunately. There is a very slim chance FA becoming world champion but that's only going to happen if Vettel screws everything up which is not going to happen.

Ferrari for still being in a serious competition with RB should have won in Canada e then Valencia. But it did not so now we are going to see Ferrari maybe dominate the second half of the championship but for Vettel would suffice to only finish in the points for the rest of the championship and he would be world champion again. So it's pretty much up to him losing it.

[ioan]

Great and unexpected qualifying form by Hamilton.

[Retro Formula 1]

Great and unexpected qualifying form by Hamilton.

It's about the best I have seen. The car wasn't worthy of that time IMHO.

I expected more from Alonso as well.

Superb quali from Webber who seems to need a fire in his belly to get his best results.

[CaptainRaiden]

A couple of points from this qualifying:

1. GREAT to see Webber grab pole at Vettel's home race. Vettel and this track just don't get together, do they?

2. Why is Button more than a second slower than Hamilton in the SAME car? Did he have any problems?

3. Amazing lap by Lewis to split the two Red Bulls. That Mclaren has no business being second on the grid. Unexpected and brilliant "wicked" lap. :p

4. What happened to Ferrari after being very quick during practice??


1. Mark Webber Red Bull 01:30.079 18
2. Lewis Hamilton McLaren 01:30.134 15
3. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 01:30.216 16
4. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 01:30.442 16
5. Felipe Massa Ferrari 01:30.910 19
6. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 01:31.263 22
7. Jenson Button McLaren 01:31.288 14
8. Adrian Sutil Force India 01:31.010 18
9. Vitaly Petrov Lotus Renault 01:31.187 16
10. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 01:32.482 18
11. Nick Heidfeld Lotus Renault 01:32.215 16
12. Paul di Resta Force India 01:32.560 15
13. Pastor Maldonado Williams 01:32.635 13
14. Rubens Barrichello Williams 01:33.043 18
15. Sergio Perez Sauber 01:33.176 14
16. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso 01:33.546 11
17. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso 01:33.698 11
18. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 01:33.786 5
19. Heikki Kovalainen Team Lotus 01:35.599 9
20. Timo Glock Virgin 01:36.400 12
21. Karun Chandhok Team Lotus 01:36.422 11
22. Jerome d` Ambrosio Virgin 01:36.641 12
23. Vitantonio Liuzzi HRT 01:37.011 11
24. Daniel Ricciardo HRT 01:37.036 11

[Mia 01]

First, congrats to Lewis, he drove one of his best qualification laps I´ve seen.

And then Mark, he gots the upper hand on Seb at this track.

Button??

[Ranger]

Great session, great laps from Webber and particularly Hamilton.

Hope it's a good race tomorrow.

[ioan]

Button??

Who?

[tfp]

I really want one of the mclarens to win this. They need a win. However, I think it would be funnier if Mark Webber won :D

So I dont know who to support for this race....Mclaren 'cos I want them to win, or Webber for a laugh...? Hmmm...

Either way, I think were all in for a treat tomorrow, looking forward to a fantastic race!

[SGWilko]

I really want one of the mclarens to win this. They need a win. However, I think it would be funnier if Mark Webber won :D

So I dont know who to support for this race....Mclaren 'cos I want them to win, or Webber for a laugh...? Hmmm...

Either way, I think were all in for a treat tomorrow, looking forward to a fantastic race!

If it's a RB one two with Webber ahead, my guess is his KERS will miraculously break.....

[ioan]

If it's a RB one two with Webber ahead, my guess is his KERS will miraculously break.....

Just like Vettel's 2 weeks ago.

[truefan72]

I hear there is rain on the cards for tomorrow

It was a great qualy for sure

A bit surprised at alonso's lack of pace in qualy
delighted at Hamilton's pace though
A really good lap by Webber, the problem with him though are his starts so barring a processional SC start with rain. I can only hope Hamilton takes the lead and Webber holds up vettel or pulls away from vettel and forces An epic Alonso Vettel battle while Hamilton dashes away.

I think on race pace the mclaren's, Ferrari's are a bit better than the RBR's and Renault/Mercedes are not far behind

Either way, I look forward to a great race

[steveaki13]

seems Jenson is yet again struggling to get heat into his tyres at a colder race.

He really is not covering himself in glory when he can't get the tyres warmed up properly

[ioan]

Buemi excluded from qualy results due to some kind of fuel irregularity.

However the rules are rather funnily worded (no surprise really):


Article 19.8.3 of the F1 Technical Regulations relates to whether or not the fuel complies with the reference fuel that has to be submitted ahead of the weekend.

It states: "GC peak areas of the sample will be compared with those obtained from the reference fuel. Increases in any given peak area (relative to its adjacent peak areas) which are greater than 12 per cent, or an absolute amount greater than 0.1 per cent for compounds present at concentrations below 0.8 per cent, will be deemed not to comply.

"If a peak is detected in a fuel sample that was absent in the corresponding reference fuel, and its peak area represents more than 0.10 per cent of the summed peak areas of the fuel, the fuel will be deemed not to comply.

Buemi excluded from qualifying over fuel irregularity - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93301)

0.1% peak area?! WTF?!
I am curious about the accuracy of the GC instrument itself, is it better than the required 0.1%?
Also the slightest calibration error in the processing method used to determine the area of the peaks will give a higher difference then these 0.1%.

Oh well, who am I kidding here, this is probably another rule written to allow the FIA to hang whomever they wish to.

[mstillhere]

"4. What happened to Ferrari after being very quick during practice??"

FA placed fourth for basicallt two reasons:

1. Inability to bring tires to temperature due to colder temperatures.

2. Ferrari made a very little twist to their set-up in case they were to have a rainy race tomorrow.

[airshifter]

I suspect that differences in setup for weather among all the teams aren't really showing us true lap times in the dry. It's all a matter of who predicted the rain right as far as when, how long, how hard, etc. Button didn't qually well in Canada either, but it turns out he had a good race setup. There is a good chance IMO that several cars on the grid are playing the "rain game" and may have lost time today in the dry due to that.

One thing for sure, Schumacher isn't on a high downforce setup. He was sliding that car all over the place. Just managing to get that car into final qual was quite a feat.

[tfp]

If it's a RB one two with Webber ahead, my guess is his KERS will miraculously break.....

Yeah, we may even get a "Sebastien is faster than you, do you understand?" Over the comms:-)

Very much looking forward to this race, wonder what the weather will do...

[CaptainRaiden]

Mark Webber's pole lap. Inch perfect.

q8uYsMInBaU

[CaptainRaiden]

Hamilton's second place lap. The first sector by Lewis is amazing. That's driver talent more than anything else.

oC36uXHhLtI

[ioan]

Light rain 15 minutes before the start!

[SGWilko]

Vettel cannot overtake - his team had to do it for him. Discuss

[christophulus]

Tremendous race, without a drop of rain. More of the same please!

[steveaki13]

Great race, I really enjoyed it. Most of it without DRS.

Lets hope we see more of this next week.

Although in Hungary I doubt that.

[Hawkmoon]

Breaking news! Vettel wins after Hamilton, Alonso and Webber disqualified for breaking end of race protocols. You heard it here first on News of the World!

[christophulus]

Potential penalties for the top3 there - Hamilton for diving into the crowd and Webber for picking up Alonso. Hopefully a small fine/reprimand will do...

[Ranger]

Great stuff, when was the last time we saw a lift back to the pits?

Great race too. :up:

[truefan72]

Vettel cannot overtake - his team had to do it for him. Discuss

I've said that for the longest time
Massa was quick though and the DRS zone was not so effective, but I liked it that way.
But back to vettel, hovering around 0.4 - 0.8 seconds behind massa for 20 laps is really rather poor imo

[ioan]

Vettel cannot overtake - his team had to do it for him. Discuss

It's a bit difficult to overtake with brake problems. Discuss! Oh wait is this the Vettel hate discussion I am disturbing?!
You guys gonna have a problem come the end of the season! :laugh:

[SGWilko]

It's a bit difficult to overtake with brake problems. Discuss! Oh wait is this the Vettel hate discussion I am disturbing?!
You guys gonna have a problem come the end of the season! :laugh:

Its a valid question ioan. He even drove off the track onto the astroturf and spun. He was nowhere today, and couldn't get past Massa!

[ioan]

I've said that for the longest time
Massa was quick though and the DRS zone was not so effective, but I liked it that way.
But back to vettel, hovering around 0.4 - 0.8 seconds behind massa for 20 laps is really rather poor imo

Vettel had brake problems for most of the race.
What was he supposed to do? Risk all the points for a few more when he already has a huge advantage?

People should realize that Vettel did his homework for this season and now he drives with in a mature way.
It is crazy to compare the racing of someone who's got a huge advantage to protect to that of someone who's got a huge disadvantage in the points standings and thus has to take all the risks.
Just sayin'.

[tfp]

On the other hand, I think massa had a really good race today. But yeah, Vettel is brilliant at setting flying laps, but is poor at defending and overtaking IMO.

[Dave B]

I actually think Webber could have won that: it was obvious from Petrov and Kobyashi's times that the white tyres were actually giving quite decent times, indeed both of those put in some green sectors. Webber was getting slower and slower, and being last of the top three to stop guaranteed that Hamilton and Alonso would retain their advantage.

[SGWilko]

Vettel had brake problems for most of the race.
What was he supposed to do? Risk all the points for a few more when he already has a huge advantage?

People should realize that Vettel did his homework for this season and now he drives with in a mature way.
It is crazy to compare the racing of someone who's got a huge advantage to protect to that of someone who's got a huge disadvantage in the points standings and thus has to take all the risks.
Just sayin'.

He had a brake issue for a small part of the race, the team managed it, and all was tickety boo after 10 laps max. Don't make excuses for Seb.

[ioan]

Its a valid question ioan. He even drove off the track onto the astroturf and spun. He was nowhere today, and couldn't get past Massa!

Alonso went twice on the green stuff and once even lost a place because of it, Vettel didn't.
Vettel had problems with the rear brakes and he had to balance the braking powered as much towards the front as possible, which means the rear brakes were colder and the rear tires were colder too and as a consequence there was less pressure in the rear tire and thus the rear of the car was not behaving optimally.
I guess it explains things well, unless I've lost you at the start of a technical discussion that you most probably won't care about because it is not as exciting as some tabloid line about Vettel.

[ioan]

He had a brake issue for a small part of the race, the team managed it, and all was tickety boo after 10 laps max. Don't make excuses for Seb.

He had the problems after the first pit stop well until about 15 laps from the end. What's that about 35 laps or so?! A small part of the race, if your maths are pants.

[SGWilko]

Alonso went twice on the green stuff and once even lost a place because of it, Vettel didn't.
Vettel had problems with the rear brakes and he had to balance the braking powered as much towards the front as possible, which means the rear brakes were colder and the rear tires were colder too and as a consequence there was less pressure in the rear tire and thus the rear of the car was not behaving optimally.
I guess it explains things well, unless I've lost you at the start of a technical discussion that you most probably won't care about because it is not as exciting as some tabloid line about Vettel.

REar brakes colder - what possible reason do you suppose they had to reduce rear braking pressure?

Excessive heat perhaps....

[ioan]

I actually think Webber could have won that: it was obvious from Petrov and Kobyashi's times that the white tyres were actually giving quite decent times, indeed both of those put in some green sectors. Webber was getting slower and slower, and being last of the top three to stop guaranteed that Hamilton and Alonso would retain their advantage.

RBR's strategist was drunk today otherwise I can't explain their horribly stupid decisions for both their drivers.

[SGWilko]

RBR's strategist was drunk today otherwise I can't explain their horribly stupid decisions for both their drivers.

Maybe they didn't want Mark to win......... :laugh:

[ioan]

Maybe they didn't want Mark to win......... :laugh:

Brilliant strategy then! ;)

[F1boat]

Excellent race for Lewis. I am not a big fan of him, but when he does well, he is simply awesome. Today he made simply a brilliant race, didn't do any mistakes, was very fast, very hungry for the win, but no stupid moves. He can be truly proud of such performance.
About Alonso, he was very smart and went for the points, not risking them with aggressive moves. He also had a good race. Webber disappointed and for me Seb obviously was rattled to do well in front of his own race and of course, failed to do so. Still, he got good points and this is important, if he is to follow the example of Button in 2009.
Finally, what a disappointment for Jenson. Second race in a row. All is NOT well in McLaren, despite the win.