Hamilton At Silverstone!

[555-04Q2]

Ok boys and girls. Once again it is time to play the "Who Is Hamilton Going To Take Out This Weekend" game :p :

After a poor showing last time round by Hammy boy where he inconsiderately avoided any form of contact and contraversy, please can we have your nominations for this weekends race :)

Remember, this is just a fun thread :)

[AndyL]

I'm going to go for Ricciardo, in a Webber/Kovalainen type scenario.

[steveaki13]

I will be bold.

And say a big contact or incident with Fred. The old enemies to fight again.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I'll be different.

one of his own pit crew.

[CNR]

button
Rosberg
Sutil
di Resta
Schumacher
then him self
all Mercedes powered f1 teams
;)

[Mintexmemory]

Who's LH gonna take out ?
My money is Rhianna, for a curry in Northampton tonight!

[Koz]

Well surely at the British GP he has to take out another Brit. So, Jensen it will be. Or perhaps di Resta...

[Hawkmoon]

Christian Horner. Those two seem to be BFFs lately. ;)

[Mia 01]

It´s obvious that number one on his list is Seb, but he´s to fast so it probably will be Mark or Jenson again.

[ioan]

Given his bad qualifying it is pretty sure that he will take someone out tomorrow.

[Robinho]

he's certainly going to be in the thick of the action starting from 10th

[intheway]

If it's anyone, let's hope it's himself.

[driveace]

He and Ron are going out tonight in Towcester,for a German,a Spaniard,then an Australian.!!! Watch your backs !!

[Allyc85]

Hes going to go flying over the back of Vettel into turn 3 ;)

[tfp]

He will probably drive his car straight through the FIA office window, for spoiling his qualy times:-)

[Mia 01]

10, yes, nothing wrong with that. I think he is glad that no pressuse is on him just like it is for the other monkeys in th midfield.

[Retro Formula 1]

I didn't think you liked the midfield drivers to be called monkey's? In fact you were rather offended not so long ago.

Only when Lewis is quoted is Mia offended. It would almost be worth him going to RBR to see the apoplectic disgust :laugh:

[ioan]

I didn't think you liked the midfield drivers to be called monkey's? In fact you were rather offended not so long ago.
You must be really pi$$ed off by Lewy's crappy showing if you even missed the sarcasm in Mia's comment! :D

[Dave B]

I support Lewis in a lot of things but his comments about his workload are pretty pathetic:



The driver was upset by his workload in the runup to Sunday's race and is refusing to sign another contract unless McLaren scale back on the number of appearances they ask him to make. "You have to make changes," he said. "When I re-sign the contract with McLaren they are going to be shocked at how many days they are not going to be able to make me do. I will be doing a lot less work. I definitely won't be doing the whole period of time before the Silverstone grand prix, that's for sure. I will have at least five days to prepare [for the race] in the future."


McLaren concede world title as Lewis Hamilton rages at sponsor burden | Sport | The Observer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jul/09/lewis-hamilton-mclaren-sponsorship?mobile-redirect=false)

[Dave B]

^although note "when I re-sign", not "if".

[driveace]

Let's hope for rain through out the race,to sort the power disadvantage out for teams,not many safety cars,and an interesting race,and NOT a Vettel win ,for a change.

[steveaki13]

Lewis is quickly becoming a thorn in Mclarens side, he obviously wants to pressure Mclaren into giving him an easy life. I think Mclaren may just think, "yer do whatever you want leave us to get our heads down and get back to the front and not worry about what our driver is moaning about and demanding.

I think Lewis may be off soon.

[Dave B]

I'm sure the salary eased the pain of having to do a 5 day week.

[Dave B]

Ham surely looking at a penalty for that move on Massa.

[Hawkmoon]

The answer to the question is Massa!

[Hawkmoon]

Ham surely looking at a penalty for that move on Massa.

The stewards have made a rod for their own back when it comes to these types of things. Schumi didn't deserve a penalty and nor does Hamilton but what can they do? They've already set the marker for penalties.

[christophulus]

The stewards have made a rod for their own back when it comes to these types of things. Schumi didn't deserve a penalty and nor does Hamilton but what can they do? They've already set the marker for penalties.

I forget, did Di Resta get a penalty? He knocked his front wing off too.

[Robinho]

be surprised if there is not an investigation/penalty, although i think it would be harsh to penalise hamilton. Massa was making the move, even if he had his nose in front at turn in

[555-04Q2]

If The Shoe gets penalised when sliding in the wet, Hammy has to get one too. Massa was past and Hammy barged him out the way.

[555-04Q2]

Nice too see Hammy in form again :cheese:

[steveaki13]

I think Di Resta did get a penalty.

This is getting rediculous. None of the 3 penalties are deserved today, Schumacher lost slight control in the wet conditions, Kobayashi was just an innocent victim of a slight error. Then Di Resta it was a smaller touch, I know Buemi got a puncture, but so have many in the past. But due to all the meddaling now in F1, Hamilton is going to get a penalty.

The way it is going anytime a driver passes and forces his rival to run slightly wide and get on the marbles and then spin, should also be penalised.

I just am getting frustrated by all these (only in my opinion) needless penalties.

[steveaki13]

Who said Hamilton would hit Massa, they win. :p

[Robinho]

if we are going to be consistent with the arguements made at other races this year, then it is Massa who has to take care as he is making the pass. not that i necessarily agree with that, but that point has been made time and again this year, even when the passer has managed to be slightly ahead going onto a corner. In this case I'd say it was slightly more Hamiltons issue, but i don't think on balance it warrants a penalty.

[555-04Q2]

I think Di Resta did get a penalty.

This is getting rediculous. None of the 3 penalties are deserved today, Schumacher lost slight control in the wet conditions, Kobayashi was just an innocent victim of a slight error. Then Di Resta it was a smaller touch, I know Buemi got a puncture, but so have many in the past. But due to all the meddaling now in F1, Hamilton is going to get a penalty.

The way it is going anytime a driver passes and forces his rival to run slightly wide and get on the marbles and then spin, should also be penalised.

I just am getting frustrated by all these (only in my opinion) needless penalties.

100%% agree :up: It is getting a bit much :down:

[ioan]

So he didn't manage to get to the end without driving into the side of at least one car, just like expected.
BTW will the Brit steward penalize the Brit driver just like he did with the German one? I seriously doubt he's got such integrity.

[Dave B]

Mansell is only the advisor, if the other stewards want to penalise Lewis (and they should) then they will.

[ioan]

I think Di Resta did get a penalty.

This is getting rediculous. None of the 3 penalties are deserved today, Schumacher lost slight control in the wet conditions, Kobayashi was just an innocent victim of a slight error. Then Di Resta it was a smaller touch, I know Buemi got a puncture, but so have many in the past. But due to all the meddaling now in F1, Hamilton is going to get a penalty.

The way it is going anytime a driver passes and forces his rival to run slightly wide and get on the marbles and then spin, should also be penalised.

I just am getting frustrated by all these (only in my opinion) needless penalties.

Stewards need enforce the rules the same way for everyone, consistency is key, no one should care if it is MS, DiR, or Lewy!

[555-04Q2]

if we are going to be consistent with the arguements made at other races this year, then it is Massa who has to take care as he is making the pass. not that i necessarily agree with that, but that point has been made time and again this year, even when the passer has managed to be slightly ahead going onto a corner. In this case I'd say it was slightly more Hamiltons issue, but i don't think on balance it warrants a penalty.

Massa was already past. Hammy tried to extend his "bash him ot the way" record this season and did so beautifully :p :

[555-04Q2]

Stewards need enforce the rules the same way for everyone, consistency is key, no one should care if it is MS, DiR, or Lewy!

100% :up:

[ioan]

Mansell is only the advisor, if the other stewards want to penalise Lewis (and they should) then they will.

So they will take a decision based on his advice? Or is he only an adviser for the sake of it?
BTW Di resta was not at fault for Buemi driving over his front wing like a mindless kid.

[christophulus]

Domenicali calling it as a racing incident. Huh?

[Robinho]

Massa was already past. Hammy tried to extend his "bash him ot the way" record this season and did so beautifully :p :

Thats the arguement i've made before this year, but i keep getting told that it doesn't matter, the passer has to make the pass, and all he had done is get alongside and an overlap into the braking zone. Massa was not past because he was not able to take the line completley. You could argue that Massa turned into Hamilton.

Demenicallo just said that he sees it as racing on track, racing incident. very sporting from him, although it might be easy to say that when he knows the stewards will say something else anyway

[christophulus]

Hamilton looks surprisingly upbeat at the end of the race. I'd have thought he'd have been fuming today, losing a podium.

[wedge]

Thats the arguement i've made before this year, but i keep getting told that it doesn't matter, the passer has to make the pass, and all he had done is get alongside and an overlap into the braking zone. Massa was not past because he was not able to take the line completley. You could argue that Massa turned into Hamilton.

Demenicallo just said that he sees it as racing on track, racing incident. very sporting from him, although it might be easy to say that when he knows the stewards will say something else anyway

I don't think I've ever seen a car overtake on the outside of the left hander. As Kobay showed earlier, the inside is the bang-on-rights line.


"Platinum card for the Stewards!" - brilliant! Who said LH had no/poor sense of humour?

[Robinho]

much better than the Ali G debacle

[steveaki13]

Stewards need enforce the rules the same way for everyone, consistency is key, no one should care if it is MS, DiR, or Lewy!

I Agree.

I don't think any of them should have penalties today. But as the stewards gave penalties to MS and Di Resta, then Lewis should be given one too, that is the only fair way.

I fear that as it was at the end and for high profile position, at Silverstone involving a leading British driver, they may forget to. Which although he doesn't deserve it, the others got one so he must too be unfairly punished.

That is the only fair way to steward.

[ioan]

You could argue that Massa turned into Hamilton.

Sure you can, but then we need a medical certificate from the ophthalmologist in order to excuse such cognitive mistake.

[steveaki13]

Agree about the joke Lewis made that is more like it.

Made me chuckle.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So he didn't manage to get to the end without driving into the side of at least one car, just like expected.
BTW will the Brit steward penalize the Brit driver just like he did with the German one? I seriously doubt he's got such integrity.

Di Resta is British ;)

[555-04Q2]

Thats the arguement i've made before this year, but i keep getting told that it doesn't matter, the passer has to make the pass, and all he had done is get alongside and an overlap into the braking zone. Massa was not past because he was not able to take the line completley. You could argue that Massa turned into Hamilton.

Demenicallo just said that he sees it as racing on track, racing incident. very sporting from him, although it might be easy to say that when he knows the stewards will say something else anyway

The key here is Massa was past him not alongside or slightly behind. He was past.

[ioan]

I don't think any of them should have penalties today. But as the stewards gave penalties to MS and Di Resta, then Lewis should be given one too, that is the only fair way.

Fully agree. And I also believe they will not give Lewy any penalty at all, otherwise he will again say something about monkeys and being black. Mind you no one cares if Massa drove his heart and balls off to pull out that pass at the end just to be driven of the road.

[Robinho]

The key here is Massa was past him not alongside or slightly behind. He was past.

no he wasn't, watch from Hamiltons on board, Massa was at no point completley in front. His front wheel was ahead of Hamiltons, but it was a left turn

[ioan]

The key here is Massa was past him not alongside or slightly behind. He was past.

Exactly, how else is Hamy's front wheel banging into Massa's side pod?!

[Dave B]

Di Resta is British ;)

Unless he does something stupid. Then he's Scottish :p

[wedge]

The key here is Massa was past him not alongside or slightly behind. He was past.

But no way would Massa make it round the outside of the left hander and stay a nose ahead without a scratch.

[ioan]

no he wasn't, watch from Hamiltons on board, Massa was at no point completley in front. His front wheel was ahead of Hamiltons, but it was a left turn

And the next turn was also to the left? Just asking.

[ioan]

But no way would Massa make it round the outside of the left hander and stay a nose ahead without a scratch.

You're right how on Earth could someone make it around Hamilton's McLaren without a scratch? We all know it is impossible, we all saw it several times how it works with Lewy. Accident is his second name after all.

[555-04Q2]

no he wasn't, watch from Hamiltons on board, Massa was at no point completley in front. His front wheel was ahead of Hamiltons, but it was a left turn

Doesn't matter if you are on the inside or the outside if you are ahead. Massa was past. Hammys front tyre hits Massa's side pod. I have a tapping of the race and have just reviewed it.

[Robinho]

Exactly, how else is Hamy's front wheel banging into Massa's side pod?!

surely this is a contradiction. If he was past there could have been no contact. Simples

[Robinho]

Doesn't matter if you are on the inside or the outside if you are ahead. Massa was past. Hammys front tyre hits Massa's side pod. I have a tapping of the race and have just reviewed it.

That is not past, that is slightly ahead, with an overlap. The position had not yet changed

[Brown, Jon Brow]

You're right how on Earth could someone make it around Hamilton's McLaren without a scratch? We all know it is impossible, we all saw it several times how it works with Lewy. Accident is his second name after all.

Apart from Webber, half an hour ago.

[ioan]

surely this is a contradiction. If he was past there could have been no contact. Simples

I guess it's better not to type the answer that I would to such nonsense. Simples.

[555-04Q2]

surely this is a contradiction. If he was past there could have been no contact. Simples

Now you are just taking the p!ss :p :

[ioan]

Apart from Webber, half an hour ago.

That was DRS on a straight.

[Robinho]

And the next turn was also to the left? Just asking.

as well you know it os not, but its also not a braking zone into it, its a traction zone out of the previous corner. difficult to try and outbrake someone in a traction zone

[ioan]

Now you are just taking the p!ss :p :

+1

[555-04Q2]

That is not past, that is slightly ahead, with an overlap. The position had not yet changed

The position changes as soon as a car is 1mm ahead of the other.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

That was DRS on a straight.

No. He had to finish the move around the outside of Brooklands.

[ioan]

as well you know it os not, but its also not a braking zone into it, its a traction zone out of the previous corner. difficult to try and outbrake someone in a traction zone

Massa would have had half a car advantage going into a right hand corner on the inside with a healthy car with full power available. This is also why Hamilton drove into him. Simples.

[ioan]

The position changes as soon as a car is 1mm ahead of the other.

+1
I guess Massa should have driven over Ham's front wing and then say: Oups, I was ahead, what were you thinking there?
Only that he's not a dirty player like Hamy boy.

BTW still no penalty to Britain's golden boy? Shall we be surprised?

[Robinho]

Now you are just taking the p!ss :p :

no i'm not. you are using the exact arguement i used earlier this year and last year (the one i remeber exactly was Hamilton/Webber in singapore) and i was rounded on from all corners with the exact arguement i am using now. To be past the position needs to have changed and the car is able to take up line in font of the other. At the stage on corner entry Massa only had a slight overlap on the outside of the corner. Therefore not past, just potentially passing. The pass was not complete. Hamilton stopped him making it complete, pretty harshly, but as i've been told time and again its the passers problem

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Massa would have had half a car advantage going into a right hand corner on the inside with a healthy car with full power available. This is also why Hamilton drove into him. Simples.

Because Mass had gone around the outside of the left part of the chicane this compromised his speed through the 2nd right part of the chicane. As a result Hamilton has more momentum through the next corner, Club.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Because Mass had gone around the outside of the left part of the chicane this compromised his speed through the 2nd right part of the chicane. As a result Hamilton has more momentum through the next corner, Club.

Also, Hamilton had been told not to fuel save on the last lap.

[Robinho]

The position changes as soon as a car is 1mm ahead of the other.

so was the Button/Massa move 3 passes or 1? was the Massa Hamilton/massa 2 or possibly 4 passes?

When Webber and Hamilton collided in Singapore although Hamilton was making a move, the point the contact was made Webber was behind, so was that a repass or the same pass. Same question Alonso/Button in canada?

[Robinho]

Are you suggesting people like ioan backed Webber in Singapore when Hamilton turned across him? Surely we don't have a contradiction on our hands here do we? :p


Wait for it....... "But that was different......................................... .."

at last, please take your cigar and place at the top of the class.

[555-04Q2]

no i'm not. you are using the exact arguement i used earlier this year and last year (the one i remeber exactly was Hamilton/Webber in singapore) and i was rounded on from all corners with the exact arguement i am using now. To be past the position needs to have changed and the car is able to take up line in font of the other. At the stage on corner entry Massa only had a slight overlap on the outside of the corner. Therefore not past, just potentially passing. The pass was not complete. Hamilton stopped him making it complete, pretty harshly, but as i've been told time and again its the passers problem

Read post #75.

[555-04Q2]

so was the Button/Massa move 3 passes or 1? was the Massa Hamilton/massa 2 or possibly 4 passes?

When Webber and Hamilton collided in Singapore although Hamilton was making a move, the point the contact was made Webber was behind, so was that a repass or the same pass. Same question Alonso/Button in canada?

WTF are you going on about old matey :?:

[ioan]

Are you suggesting people like ioan backed Webber in Singapore when Hamilton turned across him? Surely we don't have a contradiction on our hands here do we? :p


Wait for it....... "But that was different......................................... .."

Never commented on that incident. Try again! :p

How about checking when was the last time Hamilton didn't drive into an opponent's car?! :D
He's a kid in his head, can't keep his cool even if you put him on ice, no can do. Luckily Button had his wheel problem otherwise he would have also overtaken him!

[Robinho]

Read post #75.

i did , please see my post #83 and the respective question. Also see how the statistics on overtaking moves are compiled. By your arguement Button on Massa was 3 passes

[ioan]

WTF are you going on about old matey :?:

That's just typical Hamy defense mode there, don't worry it is normal! ;)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Never commented on that incident. Try again! :p

How about checking when was the last time Hamilton didn't drive into an opponent's car?! :D


How about Webber, one hour ago?

[ioan]

i did , please see my post #83 and the respective question. Also see how the statistics on overtaking moves are compiled. By your arguement Button on Massa was 3 passes

Statistics? What about in average running into at least one car in every race of his career? Oh wait, this statistics does not suit Hamilton's greatness.

[Garry Walker]

Racing incident, people wanting a penalty for that are idiots and should follow curling.

[Robinho]

WTF are you going on about old matey :?:

Maasa was ahead for a split second, 1 pass completed. Hamilton was ahead on corner exit, 2 passes. they may have swapped again before the line, which would make 4 passes, apparently the position chanes the moment a car is 1mm ahead, not when they are able to take the line ahead of the pursuing car.

by that rationale Button took Massa at the end of Hangar straight, Massa repassaed on the exit and Button made a 3rd pass into the chicane. 3 passes. when in reality there was only one cahnge of position recorded

[555-04Q2]

i did , please see my post #83 and the respective question. Also see how the statistics on overtaking moves are compiled. By your arguement Button on Massa was 3 passes

If the front of their cars change lead three times then yes. I don't see how this affects Hammy smashing into Massa. Watch the recording (if you have one) and you will see Hammy maintaining his scorecard for the 2011 season. Massa was past by a fair margin and leading Hammy until be was shoved by the thread subject.

[ioan]

How about Webber, one hour ago?

Did he run into someone?

You mean the overtake? What were you expecting given that the move was on the straight with DRS with 5 or 6 laps to go and Hamilton didn't even know if he can finish the race, what use to bang wheels at that point?

[Dave B]

Racing incident, people wanting a penalty for that are idiots and should follow curling.
I'm inclined to agree but the stewards need to be consistent. If they're going to give MSC a stop/go they surely must at least investigate HAM.

[555-04Q2]

Maasa was ahead for a split second, 1 pass completed. Hamilton was ahead on corner exit, 2 passes. they may have swapped again before the line, which would make 4 passes, apparently the position chanes the moment a car is 1mm ahead, not when they are able to take the line ahead of the pursuing car.

by that rationale Button took Massa at the end of Hangar straight, Massa repassaed on the exit and Button made a 3rd pass into the chicane. 3 passes. when in reality there was only one cahnge of position recorded

He was only ahead for a split second because Hammy smashed into him a split second after he passed!

[ioan]

If the front of their cars change lead three times then yes. I don't see how this affects Hammy smashing into Massa. Watch the recording (if you have one) and you will see Hammy maintaining his scorecard for the 2011 season. Massa was past by a fair margin and leading Hammy until be was shoved by the thread subject.

Just ask Hamilton and he will tell you that Massa is an idiot who shouldn't have dared to race him. Hamy can do no wrong! This is also what you get from his supporters. Simples.

[555-04Q2]

I'm inclined to agree but the stewards need to be consistent. If they're going to give MSC a stop/go they surely must at least investigate HAM.

Sad, but true.

[ioan]

He was only ahead for a split second because Hammy smashed into him a split second after he passed!

+1

[Robinho]

Statistics? What about in average running into at least one car in every race of his career? Oh wait, this statistics does not suit Hamilton's greatness.

i take you "opinion" and ask you to back that up with some proof. "Link please"

i'm not here trying to defend Hamilton, i actually thought it was more his fault than Massa's but more a racing incident than a full fault and penalty situation. I'm not claiming greatness or anything for Hamilton. check back the last few races and you'll see my comments blaming him for several of the incidents. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of arguement.

[555-04Q2]

i take you "opinion" and ask you to back that up with some proof. "Link please"

i'm not here trying to defend Hamilton, i actually thought it was more his fault than Massa's but more a racing incident than a full fault and penalty situation. I'm not claiming greatness or anything for Hamilton. check back the last few races and you'll see my comments blaming him for several of the incidents. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of arguement.

All we are asking for is consistancy from the stewards.

[Garry Walker]

I'm inclined to agree but the stewards need to be consistent. If they're going to give MSC a stop/go they surely must at least investigate HAM.

Different crashes, MS was far further away from Kamui and just lost it under braking, completely his mistake.
Hamilton and Massa were fighting for position.

[555-04Q2]

Different crashes, MS was far further away from Kamui and just lost it under braking, completely his mistake.
Hamilton and Massa were fighting for position.

You telling us The Shoe didn't want to pass Koba at any point while he was behind :p :

[steveaki13]

I'm inclined to agree but the stewards need to be consistent. If they're going to give MSC a stop/go they surely must at least investigate HAM.

100% Agree

[ioan]

You telling us The Shoe didn't want to pass Koba at any point while he was behind :p :

Don't listen to him, he's still frustrated by Vettel extending his advantage in the championship to over 4 wins. ;)

[Robinho]

Just ask Hamilton and he will tell you that Massa is an idiot who shouldn't have dared to race him. Hamy can do no wrong! This is also what you get from his supporters. Simples.

again please provide a link for Hamilton's comments, the interview i saw he said nothing like that (neither did domonicalli blame Hamilton, imagine that!)

again i'm no particular supporter of Hamilton. I much prefer Button

stick you head in the sand and trot out the same old tired rhetoric about fan boys and/or haters if you like, but it does absolutley nothing in making a point.

I agree there was contact. I agree that Massa was marginally ahead in the braking zone, only that he had not completed the pass. If he'd emerged from the corner, or even taken corner ahead of Lewis he would have been "past".

[555-04Q2]

100% Agree

That is far to difficult for some people to fathom/do...

[555-04Q2]

I agree there was contact. I agree that Massa was marginally ahead in the braking zone, only that he had not completed the pass. If he'd emerged from the corner, or even taken corner ahead of Lewis he would have been "past".

They were past the braking zone and starting to accelerate. I recommend you watch the replay before posting again.

[Robinho]

All we are asking for is consistancy from the stewards.

it hasn't read like that. if thats all you want then i agree i'd expect at least an investigation. IMO there was enough difference between that and the MS/Koby crash for a different outcome, although i do think that a penalty there was perhaps harsh, it was a loss of control all on his own that unfortunelty ended in hitting Kamui.

[steveaki13]

That is far to difficult for some people to fathom/do...


Easy for me, just nod your head.

[Robinho]

They were past the braking zone and starting to accelerate. I recommend you watch the replay before posting again.

I have watched it multiple times from several cameras. explain how Hamilton managed to make contact with Massa whilst having one front wheel locked and apparently accelerating, all before the apex of the chicane. no chance that the first contact (if there was more than 1) was made whilst under anything other than braking.

[555-04Q2]

it hasn't read like that. if thats all you want then i agree i'd expect at least an investigation. IMO there was enough difference between that and the MS/Koby crash for a different outcome, although i do think that a penalty there was perhaps harsh, it was a loss of control all on his own that unfortunelty ended in hitting Kamui.

Most of the penalties lately have been harsh and unwarranted. F1 is becoming a joke with people being penalised for the faintest touches. But we need consistancy if this is what the FIA wants.

[hiplm]

I'm all for fair play and think hammy should be punished because Schumi was, even if he didn't deserve it...but then there's a little niggling thought in the back of my mind reminding me how my grandmother always used to say "two wrongs don't make a right"...

[555-04Q2]

I have watched it multiple times from several cameras. explain how Hamilton managed to make contact with Massa whilst having one front wheel locked and apparently accelerating, all before the apex of the chicane. no chance that the first contact (if there was more than 1) was made whilst under anything other than braking.

You must be watching a different race then. And there was double contact. I think this is all I have left to say about the subject cause this could go on for hours and hours and hours..... :)

[giorus]

Can someone please explain why Hamilton's front wheels point at some stage not in the direction of the turn but towards Massa's car? Could remind of Jerez 97...

Also if he made a mistake and locked his wheels under braking, resulting into him going into the side of Massa's car, how is the different from MS making the same mistake agains KK and being punished for it?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Can someone please explain why Hamilton's front wheels point at some stage not in the direction of the turn but towards Massa's car?


It's called opposite lock.

[steveaki13]

Can someone please explain why Hamilton's front wheels point at some stage not in the direction of the turn but towards Massa's car? Could remind of Jerez 97...

Also if he made a mistake and locked his wheels under braking, resulting into him going into the side of Massa's car, how is the different from MS making the same mistake agains KK and being punished for it?


It was a mistake from Lewis into Massa and it is no different to MS and KK. And neither Hamilton or MS should have been punished, but as one was and stewards have to be consistent, so the other should have been.

[giorus]

It's called opposite lock.

The question was not what is called but why he turned into it? I'm not a racing driver but it does not look like something I wish someone did to me on the road.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The question was not what is called but why he turned into it? I'm not a racing driver but it does not look like something I wish someone did to me on the road.

He was controlling a slide by steering into it. Basic car control.

[ioan]

You're putting a very mature arguement forward there ioan. ;)

Sometimes one needs to lower the level a bit. :p


How about watching Hamiltons post race interview now you've said that?

Stopped reading what Ali G has to say, it's usually a waste of precious time.

[giorus]

Possibly because MS had full control of his car under braking and deliberately turned in on that occasion. He admitted it years later. Hamilton didn't deliberately crash into Massa and so far nobody has a problem with it. No complaints from Massa or Ferrari and no stewards inquiries as yet.

What a day to choose to join the forum and a rather controversial first post, welcome to the circus. :wave:

why controversial? just asking two simple questions. why did he turn into Massa and why his mistakes are different from MS's mistakes earlier in the race?

[ioan]

He was controlling a slide by steering into it. Basic car control.

So he was controlling what he was doing? Then hang him for consciously driving into an opponent. Simples, as robinho like to say.

[giorus]

He was controlling a slide by steering into it. Basic car control.

was his slide intentional or a mistake? If it was a mistake resulting into a crash should have not at least been investigated?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

So he was controlling what he was doing? Then hang him for consciously driving into an opponent. Simples, as robinho like to say.

So what is he supposed to do when he tries a move and the car slides? Let the back end spin round so he takes himself and Massa out? Stop being so deliberately obtuse!

[ioan]

was his slide intentional or a mistake? If it was a mistake resulting into a crash should have not at least been investigated?

Oh c'mon, the best thing that happened in England since sliced bread can not be investigated on his home turf, that would be way too much consistency in F1.

[steveaki13]

was his slide intentional or a mistake? If it was a mistake resulting into a crash should have not at least been investigated?

Mistake that shouldn't be punished. Neither should MS or Di Resta.

But after MS and Di Resta were, then to be consistent the stewards should be investigating Lewis to be fair to MS and di Resta.

[ioan]

So what is he supposed to do when he tries a move and the car slides? Let the back end spin round so he takes himself and Massa out? Stop being so deliberately obtuse!

He should learn to drive better. The track was dry and he was still sliding around? Then he entered the corner way to fast without taking into account that his opponent was alongside him and he jeopardized said opponent's race.
No matter how you look at it hmilton made a mistake and should be punished like all others in this race i.e. 20 seconds penalty.

[giorus]

So what is he supposed to do when he tries a move and the car slides? Let the back end spin round so he takes himself and Massa out? Stop being so deliberately obtuse!

I think he's supposed to stop the car sliding in the first place? Still it could be judged by the stewards a racing accident but this year mistakes resulting into crashes have been consistently investigated, and often punished.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

He should learn to drive better. The track was dry and he was still sliding around?



I think he's supposed to stop the car sliding in the first place? Still it could be judged by the stewards a racing accident but this year mistakes resulting into crashes have been consistently investigated, and often punished.

http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/facepalm.jpg

Please go and spend 5 minutes on a go-kart circuit before making such silly remarks abourt car control and race-craft.

[steveaki13]

He should learn to drive better. The track was dry and he was still sliding around? Then he entered the corner way to fast without taking into account that his opponent was alongside him and he jeopardized said opponent's race.
No matter how you look at it hmilton made a mistake and should be punished like all others in this race i.e. 20 seconds penalty.

I agree in this race Hamilton should have been penalised for consistency, but if MS and the rest hadn't been punished do you think Lewis still should have been. Or are you balanced in it should be either all punished in these case or none punished.

[ioan]

http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/facepalm.jpg

Please go and spend 5 minutes on a go-kart circuit before making such silly remarks abourt car control and race-craft.

Typical Hamilton fan personal attacks. What about commenting what you hero did on track, i.e. driving into his opponent?

[ioan]

I agree in this race Hamilton should have been penalised for consistency, but if MS and the rest hadn't been punished do you think Lewis still should have been. Or are you balanced in it should be either all punished in these case or none punished.

C'mon you're robbing me of all the fun. ;)

[giorus]

http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/facepalm.jpg

Please go and spend 5 minutes on a go-kart circuit before making such silly remarks abourt car control and race-craft.

ops...someone lost it an started naming names.

I know exactly how difficult it is trying to keep a car which is 3 seconds faster than yours behind. It is bloody difficult. It is so difficult that it's very likely you are going to make a mistake. No need to go go-karting.

[ioan]

Evidently neither have experienced such a challenge but are experts by just watching the TV..lol.

Another personal attack from a Hamy die hard fan! You guys are very very predictable, just like Hamilton is when it comes to driving into his opponents. :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Another personal attack from a Hamy die hard fan! You guys are very very predictable, just like Hamilton is when it comes to driving into his opponents. :D

Another example of pot and the kettle. Ioan, you are in no position to talk about making predictable posts when it comes to Hamilton. ;)

[Brown, Jon Brow]

ops...someone lost it an started naming names.

I know exactly how difficult it is trying to keep a car which is 3 seconds faster than yours behind. It is bloody difficult. It is so difficult that it's very likely you are going to make a mistake. No need to go go-karting.

You tried to suggest that Hamilton deliberately drove into Massa like Schu in Jerez 97? Hamilton hardly even made a mistake. He was just racing hard, and the stewards have decided that he was racing within the rules.

[Dave B]

Another personal attack? Sorry if you dislike being called an expert ioan ;) .
You are so biased its unbelieveable. Last year when Vettel crashed into Webber it was Marks fault for holding his line. Last year when Ferrari ordered Massa to let Alonso past with blatant team orders you called for them to be banned. Last year when McLaren ordered Jenson and Lewis to save fuel in Turkey you were outraged at the covert implimentation of team orders. Now Hamiliton and Massa provide a display of hard but fair racing you are outraged because once again your preferred driver lost out. Predictable is you ioan. ;)

Quite possibly post of the month!

[giorus]

You tried to suggest that Hamilton deliberately drove into Massa like Schu in Jerez 97? Hamilton hardly even made a mistake. He was just racing hard, and the stewards have decided that he was racing within the rules.

I start getting confused here. You say Hamilton hardly made a mistake when he turned into his opponent..so he must have done it on purpose then. Either one or the other. Are you really suggesting that? That's too harsh in my opinion. I wouldn't go that far.

Or are you saying that indeed he did it on purpose but that's simply "hard racing"? if the latter I'm afraid it is not...that's illegal, in racing terms.

As per Jerez, I'm afraid anytime I see someone pointing wheels towards another car that moment come to mind whether appropriately or not.

[ioan]

Another personal attack? Sorry if you dislike being called an expert ioan ;) .
You are so biased its unbelieveable. Last year when Vettel crashed into Webber it was Marks fault for holding his line. Last year when Ferrari ordered Massa to let Alonso past with blatant team orders you called for them to be banned. Last year when McLaren ordered Jenson and Lewis to save fuel in Turkey you were outraged at the covert implimentation of team orders. Now Hamiliton and Massa provide a display of hard but fair racing you are outraged because once again your preferred driver lost out. Predictable is you ioan. ;)

And you call me biased?!
I guess all mirrors in the UK are broken! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I start getting confused here. You say Hamilton hardly made a mistake when he turned into his opponent..so he must have done it on purpose then. Either one or the other. Are you really suggesting that? That's too harsh in my opinion. I wouldn't go that far.

Or are you saying that indeed he did it on purpose but that's simply "hard racing"? if the latter I'm afraid it is not...that's illegal, in racing terms.

As per Jerez, I'm afraid anytime I see someone pointing wheels towards another car that moment come to mind whether appropriately or not.

The car sliding isn't a mistake, a racing car is always sliding in a corner to some degree. A mistake would be if the car was sliding and he didn't correct it.

[ioan]

You could point out where I have been biased if you like rather than accusing me and not even backing it up? Just a thought.

I at least provided examples.

Examples of what? Of bias based on your own biased POV? That's as useless as farting in the wind.
Is there a chance for you to understand that we are all biased and that calling another forum member biased is hypocrisy at it's best?

[Robinho]

You must be watching a different race then. And there was double contact. I think this is all I have left to say about the subject cause this could go on for hours and hours and hours..... :)

Happy to agree to disagree, and there was a double contact, you are right, Hamilton with the unloaded inside front locked under braking makes slight contact with Massa'a sidepod on turn i to the left of the chicane. This unbalances both cars and there is a secondary contact, both cars sliding slightly and a portion of Hamilton's front wing comes off, this is before any accelerating. Massa emerges out of the corner slightly ahead but not on the idea line for the right of the chicane and runs slightly wider. Hamilton keeps it tighter and undercuts Massa intpo the final right hander, where Massa runs wide and Hamilton keeps 4th. There is no further contact after the first half of the chicane. all the contact came whilst the cars were slowing and/or trying to make the first part of the chicane.

as for consistency, i agree that if they investigated MS, Di Resta as well then they should have at least looked at the Hamilton incident, but i also think that there was nothing in that incident that warrented a penalty, particularly as Massa was the one that had started out making the move

[giorus]

no longer confused...completely lost. Are you saying that sliding your car into somebody else's car is neither a mistake nor illegal driving? It surely must be one or the other because last time I checked F1 was not a contact sport.

[Mia 01]

No penalty for hammy then?

[ioan]

You must be gutted.

Probably not. We all expected this outcome! :D :p

[ioan]

If you expected Lewis to actually escape the stewards for once, you're a bigger gambler than me.. ;)

I never gamble. It was obvious that in this case nothing will happen, especially with Massa being so gracious (in spite of Hamilton's comments about him back in Monaco) and saying that he had no problem with Lewis pushing him wide today.

[Retro Formula 1]

Good hard racing from both men today with neither wanting concede ground but ultimately providing a great finish.

Bit silly to compare the Schumy and Lewis incidents IMHO. One was an obvious error by Michael that caused Koby to lose places whereas the other was 2 drivers battling tooth and nail with a hard but fair outcome.

Grasping at straws?

Lets just celebrate a great, exciting and hugely enjoyable race rather than bitching ;)

[ioan]

Good hard racing from both men today with neither wanting concede ground but ultimately providing a great finish.

Bit silly to compare the Schumy and Lewis incidents IMHO. One was an obvious error by Michael that caused Koby to lose places whereas the other was 2 drivers battling tooth and nail with a hard but fair outcome.

Grasping at straws?

Lets just celebrate a great, exciting and hugely enjoyable race rather than bitching ;)


Not so fast. Both were similar. Both made a mistake and in both cases someone else lost places. And both shouldn't have been punished, same for di Resta's case.

[Retro Formula 1]

I'm not going to argue with you ioan. Stefano and Massa are happy but we will all defer to your opinion for the sake of a quiet life. ;)

Slightly off course. is anyone watching TG at the moment. PML.

"That's how to pass a Ferrari in a McLaren without hitting it Lewis".

(Bear in mind, that was filmed 2 weeks ago)

[F1boat]

Lewis drove very well today. He is aggressive, but crafty driver. You can't deny this.

[SGWilko]

When MS accidentally broke his nose on KK's car, did it not punt KK into a spin? Thus the causing an avoidable incident malarky comes into play.

With LH and FM, they were able to carry on regardless. Massa running out of talent at the final corner lost him the position, not the rubbing with LH.,

[Retro Formula 1]

Just watched that bit... I love that McLaren in orange.. :burnout:

It's looked really quick this year but didn't expect THAT!

[steveaki13]

When MS accidentally broke his nose on KK's car, did it not punt KK into a spin? Thus the causing an avoidable incident malarky comes into play.

With LH and FM, they were able to carry on regardless. Massa running out of talent at the final corner lost him the position, not the rubbing with LH.,

True.

But In my ideal world, there would only be penalties for very dangerous driving or intentionally hitting someone, it would be hard racing but everyone would know where they stand.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

no longer confused...completely lost. Are you saying that sliding your car into somebody else's car is neither a mistake nor illegal driving? It surely must be one or the other because last time I checked F1 was not a contact sport.

So the merest contact should be always be punished by the stewards? Of course not. It was a racing incident.

[The Black Knight]

He should learn to drive better. The track was dry and he was still sliding around? Then he entered the corner way to fast without taking into account that his opponent was alongside him and he jeopardized said opponent's race.
No matter how you look at it hmilton made a mistake and should be punished like all others in this race i.e. 20 seconds penalty.

Here we go again. Hammy has a bit of contact after a corner of hard racing whilst defending his position and the trolls are out in force. The reason Schumacher got penalised for the Kobayashi move was because he out-braked himself and caused the accident. Hamilton had run out of grip, he had a badly flat spotted left front tyre, he braked before Massa braked. Massa braked extremely late because of his fresher tyres which enabled him to get around Lewis, but Hammy had braked so late that he was always going into Massa's path to make the corner. A racing incident, no more.

I was there watching the incident unfold in front of my eyes surrounded by quite a number of Ferrari fans whom all agreed that it was a racing incident. Even Domenicali agrees it was a racing incident, ffs.

[CaptainRaiden]

I was there watching the incident unfold in front of my eyes surrounded by quite a number of Ferrari fans whom all agreed that it was a racing incident. Even Domenicali agrees it was a racing incident, ffs.

^ That.

If these guys were racing today, they would have each gotten a 100 minute penalty:

kre35Pct0yA


Sometimes it's hard to believe these trolls manage to get any work done, or if they even have a job at all, with so many hours bashing Lewis or kissing their favorite driver's ass, all the while these drivers having no freakin idea if they even exist. It's sad.

[Retro Formula 1]

^ That.

Sometimes it's hard to believe these trolls manage to get any work done, or if they even have a job at all, with so many hours bashing Lewis or kissing their favorite driver's ass, all the while these drivers having no freakin idea if they even exist. It's sad.

PML. You know it fella :up:

[Mia 01]

Is there any photo on the net showing that Lewis finished before Felipe, can´t be wit many centimeters.

[Dave B]

Is there any photo on the net showing that Lewis finished before Felipe, can´t be wit many centimeters.

No, it's a conspiracy because the British timing system is biased. The tv camera crew were in on it too.

[giorus]

When MS accidentally broke his nose on KK's car, did it not punt KK into a spin? Thus the causing an avoidable incident malarky comes into play.

With LH and FM, they were able to carry on regardless. Massa running out of talent at the final corner lost him the position, not the rubbing with LH.,

You must know something we don't. I never realised hitting opponents is ok as long as they can continue.

Whether the contact was enough or not to gain a penalty (probably not in my opinion) I think should be a matter for the stewards to decide not for this forum. Difficult for them to do it unless they investigate it though.

[The Black Knight]

You must know something we don't. I never realised hitting opponents is ok as long as they can continue.

Whether the contact was enough or not to gain a penalty (probably not in my opinion) I think should be a matter for the stewards to decide not for this forum. Difficult for them to do it unless they investigate it though.

It wasn't investigated because it was clearly a racing incident, so no investigation was needed. I do agree, however, that in the interests of consistency it did warrant an investigation with the outcome being a racing incident.

[SGWilko]

You must know something we don't. I never realised hitting opponents is ok as long as they can continue.

Whether the contact was enough or not to gain a penalty (probably not in my opinion) I think should be a matter for the stewards to decide not for this forum. Difficult for them to do it unless they investigate it though.

You are assuming that the contact was intentional.....

Whether you mean it or not, if the guy you hit is disadvantaged (Maldonado in Monaco (remember Massa took a bite out the tunnel armco all by himself), and Kobayashi in Silverstone) then a penalty is warranted under the banner - causing an avoidable incident.

With Lewis and Fillipe at Silverstone, Massa was the guy who had to make the clean pass (remember the hoo-ha at Monaco anyone?)............

[giorus]

The reason Schumacher got penalised for the Kobayashi move was because he out-braked himself and caused the accident.

Didn't LH outbreak himself when he locked his tyres and went into a slide before hitting FM? Is that really different from MS outbreaking himself? if so shouldn't that be a matter for the stewards to decide after proper investigation?


Hamilton had run out of grip, he had a badly flat spotted left front tyre, he braked before Massa braked. Massa braked extremely late because of his fresher tyres which enabled him to get around Lewis, but Hammy had braked so late that he was always going into Massa's path to make the corner.

I never realised that the status of your car or your tyres can be used as an excuse to run into opponents. I thought drivers are supposed to take those variables into account when picking a breaking point. Failure to do so should be their mistake and no one else's.

[SGWilko]

Didn't LH outbreak himself when he locked his tyres and went into a slide before hitting FM? Is that really different from MS outbreaking himself? if so shouldn't that be a matter for the stewards to decide after proper investigation?



I never realised that the status of your car or your tyres can be used as an excuse to run into opponents. I thought drivers are supposed to take those variables into account when picking a breaking point. Failure to do so should be their mistake and no one else's.

Had you been watching, you'd have noted that Lewis had locked the L/F at that corner on a number of laps, once you get a flat spot, the wheel has a tendency to continue to stop rotating at the same point due to the flat spot - catch 22.........

[giorus]

Had you been watching, you'd have noted that Lewis had locked the L/F at that corner on a number of laps, once you get a flat spot, the wheel has a tendency to continue to stop rotating at the same point due to the flat spot - catch 22.........

catch what?

So he didn't outbreak himself then (leaving aside the slide with his wheels pointing massa's car)? So then he simply misjudged the breaking point. Either one or the other given that he ended up onto Massa's car.

[The Black Knight]

Didn't LH outbreak himself when he locked his tyres and went into a slide before hitting FM? Is that really different from MS outbreaking himself? if so shouldn't that be a matter for the stewards to decide after proper investigation?



I never realised that the status of your car or your tyres can be used as an excuse to run into opponents. I thought drivers are supposed to take those variables into account when picking a breaking point. Failure to do so should be their mistake and no one else's.

Oh ffs, I can't argue with stupidity, therefore, I'm not going to argue with this.

[SGWilko]

catch what?

So he didn't outbreak himself then (leaving aside the slide with his wheels pointing massa's car)? So then he simply misjudged the breaking point. Either one or the other given that he ended up onto Massa's car.

I think they both outbraked themselves, Massa going so deep into the corner he very nearly didn't make it. Same for Lewis.

Racing Incident.

[Retro Formula 1]

If Lewis had of slid across the track and T-Boned Massa then it would be different.

The FACTS are that they were both going round the corner and Massa was trying to make a pass. Lewis wasn't crowding Massa to the outside and Massa was trying to lean in to get the best angle. Basically, 2 racers fighting over the same piece of Tarmac.

Did the incident occur in the centre of the track? Yes.
Was Massa the one making the move? Yes.
Was it a racing incident? Yes.

End of story.

[ArrowsFA1]

Do we want to see drivers race each other or not ffs?

I'm getting increasingly tired when people are screaming for penalties whenever contact of whatever sort is made. Intentionally driving into somebody deserves a penalty. Slight contact when two drivers are battling for position does not.

IMHO Schumacher didn't deserve a penalty on Sunday. He didn't intend to take out "Careful", he simply misjudged the additional speed DRS gave him, and made an error. No intent there either.

At a time when stupid things like DRS are being used because drivers can't race closely it seems absurd that when they do get into close combat there's always someone shouting "penalty!!!"

:rolleyes:

[The Black Knight]

Do we want to see drivers race each other or not ffs?

I'm getting increasingly tired when people are screaming for penalties whenever contact of whatever sort is made. Intentionally driving into somebody deserves a penalty. Slight contact when two drivers are battling for position does not.

IMHO Schumacher didn't deserve a penalty on Sunday. He didn't intend to take out "Careful", he simply misjudged the additional speed DRS gave him, and made an error. No intent there either.

At a time when stupid things like DRS are being used because drivers can't race closely it seems absurd that when they do get into close combat there's always someone shouting "penalty!!!"

:rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more with this. Still Schuey shouldn't have crashed especially a guy with his experience, but the penalty was harsh.

[Retro Formula 1]

Do we want to see drivers race each other or not ffs?

I'm getting increasingly tired when people are screaming for penalties whenever contact of whatever sort is made. Intentionally driving into somebody deserves a penalty. Slight contact when two drivers are battling for position does not.

IMHO Schumacher didn't deserve a penalty on Sunday. He didn't intend to take out "Careful", he simply misjudged the additional speed DRS gave him, and made an error. No intent there either.

At a time when stupid things like DRS are being used because drivers can't race closely it seems absurd that when they do get into close combat there's always someone shouting "penalty!!!"

:rolleyes:

I'm undecided on the Schumacher penalty. Yes, it was a stupid mistake but at the end of the day, his cock-up resulted in another driver losing places. The old story of cause and effect? Ultimately, we all want to see racing but just when do you draw the line? Not easy is it?

As with Massa and Lewis, I loved it. Good hard racing and great to see. Well done Stewards for getting it right. More of this please.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm undecided on the Schumacher penalty. Yes, it was a stupid mistake but at the end of the day, his cock-up resulted in another driver losing places. The old story of cause and effect? Ultimately, we all want to see racing but just when do you draw the line? Not easy is it?
No it's not, but I do think things have gone too far in terms of penalties. That said, I gather it was the drivers who asked that the stewards look at all incidents where contact is involved :dozey:

[giorus]

I think they both outbraked themselves, Massa going so deep into the corner he very nearly didn't make it. Same for Lewis.

Racing Incident.

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion but I have to say I disagree with your view that Massa outbraked himself. May be he "very nearly" didn't make but he clearly made the turn and made it stick before being hit.

[giorus]

If Lewis had of slid across the track and T-Boned Massa then it would be different.

The FACTS are that they were both going round the corner and Massa was trying to make a pass. Lewis wasn't crowding Massa to the outside and Massa was trying to lean in to get the best angle. Basically, 2 racers fighting over the same piece of Tarmac.

Did the incident occur in the centre of the track? Yes.
Was Massa the one making the move? Yes.
Was it a racing incident? Yes.

End of story.

I think the only FACT is that one car hit another. Given the current very unforgiving attitude from the stewards that fact was probably worthy of investigation. After proper investigation they may as well reached the same conclusion as your, perhaps.

[Tumbo]

Initially when it happened I thought to myself lewwwwiisssss; then of course I remembered that earlier in the race I thought Schumi was judged harshly as his was boarderline racing incident - unlike Monaco this was clearly a Hamilton doing everything to make a genuine pass and utilise road position without hustling or the like - fair call indeed and probably more reminiscent of the Lewis we saw over the first couple of races of the season - seems now that he realises his chance to win the title is near zero he is more controlled and measured in his attack

gotta love his 'give me more info' on the radio also :D

[giorus]

Do we want to see drivers race each other or not ffs?

I'm getting increasingly tired when people are screaming for penalties whenever contact of whatever sort is made. Intentionally driving into somebody deserves a penalty. Slight contact when two drivers are battling for position does not.

IMHO Schumacher didn't deserve a penalty on Sunday. He didn't intend to take out "Careful", he simply misjudged the additional speed DRS gave him, and made an error. No intent there either.

At a time when stupid things like DRS are being used because drivers can't race closely it seems absurd that when they do get into close combat there's always someone shouting "penalty!!!"

:rolleyes:

Fully second that only dirty driving should be penalised but this has not been the consistent meter of judgment. As you said, there was nothing dirty in Schumacher on KK but yet he ended up in the pits. Consistency would help people understand.

[Retro Formula 1]

I think the only FACT is that one car hit another. Given the current very unforgiving attitude from the stewards that fact was probably worthy of investigation. After proper investigation they may as well reached the same conclusion as your, perhaps.

So, which car hit the other. You could legitimately argue that Hamilton was steering away from the contact and Massa into it could you not? However, I have a funny feeling this is an old argument and one that will not be resolved by logic.

We do know that the Stewards DID look at the matter and conclude it was a racing incident with no blame which is what most objective people, including the teams, principles and drivers also arrived at.

[ArrowsFA1]

Consistency would help people understand.
How do you achieve consistency though? Every incident is different, however slightly, and the stewards do have access to far more information than fans at the circuit or watching on tv do. Also, there are probably as many opinions as people watching!!

The one thing I would like to see, and we were promised this by the FIA, is more open explaination of the decisions. There will always be those who agree and disagree with the stewards but at least if we understood what they looked at and why they came to their conclusion that would, I think, help.

After his stint as a steward a few races ago Mark Blundell was quizzed by the BBC team in the paddock and it was clear he could not (as opposed to would not) say much. Nigel Mansell was similarly non-commital yesterday.

Sometimes the sport just doesn't help itself.

[giorus]

So, which car hit the other. You could legitimately argue that Hamilton was steering away from the contact and Massa into it could you not? However, I have a funny feeling this is an old argument and one that will not be resolved by logic.

We do know that the Stewards DID look at the matter and conclude it was a racing incident with no blame which is what most objective people, including the teams, principles and drivers also arrived at.

I stand corrected if as you say the stewards investigated the contact and reached a "no further actions" verdict. Can't find this information anywhere though.

[giorus]

How do you achieve consistency though? Every incident is different, however slightly, and the stewards do have access to far more information than fans at the circuit or watching on tv do. Also, there are probably as many opinions as people watching!!

The one thing I would like to see, and we were promised this by the FIA, is more open explaination of the decisions. There will always be those who agree and disagree with the stewards but at least if we understood what they looked at and why they came to their conclusion that would, I think, help.

After his stint as a steward a few races ago Mark Blundell was quizzed by the BBC team in the paddock and it was clear he could not (as opposed to would not) say much. Nigel Mansell was similarly non-commital yesterday.

Sometimes the sport just doesn't help itself.

Agree.

[TMorel]

I thought based on Nige's comment about looking at closing speed etc etc that it HAD been looked at and dismissed by the stewards as not requiring further investigation, so that would then mean that the stewards, the drivers and the team owners were all of the belief that it was a racing incident.

As an extra to this, how come the viewing public dont get these extra camera angles that Nigel was raving about the stewards getting? I bet BSkyB would let us see them (for a price)

[SGWilko]

how come the viewing public dont get these extra camera angles that Nigel was raving about the stewards getting? I bet BSkyB would let us see them (for a price)

How many feeds/screens would you need to view them all? You'd spend half the race looking at multi angle replays on a single feed broadcast.

[bigunn]

Ok boys and girls. Once again it is time to play the "Who Is Hamilton Going To Take Out This Weekend" game :p :

After a poor showing last time round by Hammy boy where he inconsiderately avoided any form of contact and contraversy, please can we have your nominations for this weekends race :)

Remember, this is just a fun thread :)


"Who Is Hamilton Going To Take Out This Weekend" truth :laugh:

[SGWilko]

"Who Is Hamilton Going To Take Out This Weekend" truth :laugh:

That doesn't really make sense? Can you elaborate?

[555-04Q2]

How do you achieve consistency though? Every incident is different, however slightly, and the stewards do have access to far more information than fans at the circuit or watching on tv do. Also, there are probably as many opinions as people watching!!

The one thing I would like to see, and we were promised this by the FIA, is more open explaination of the decisions. There will always be those who agree and disagree with the stewards but at least if we understood what they looked at and why they came to their conclusion that would, I think, help.

After his stint as a steward a few races ago Mark Blundell was quizzed by the BBC team in the paddock and it was clear he could not (as opposed to would not) say much. Nigel Mansell was similarly non-commital yesterday.

Sometimes the sport just doesn't help itself.

:up:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

What is really making me laugh and hold my head in disbelief are people who have seen the super-slow replay of Hamilton and Massa in Vale, they see Hamilton counter-steering and seem to believe that this is Hamilton deliberately steering towards Massa!

[555-04Q2]

What is really making me laugh and hold my head in disbelief are people who have seen the super-slow replay of Hamilton and Massa in Vale, they see Hamilton counter-steering and seem to believe that this is Hamilton deliberately steering towards Massa!

Agree :up: He wasn't pulling A Shoe Move, merely trying to gain control after overestimating his driving talent.

[The Black Knight]

What is really making me laugh and hold my head in disbelief are people who have seen the super-slow replay of Hamilton and Massa in Vale, they see Hamilton counter-steering and seem to believe that this is Hamilton deliberately steering towards Massa!

It amazes me as well. Some posters on here really know nothing about motor racing. It astonishes me at times really.

[SGWilko]

It amazes me as well. Some posters on here really know nothing about motor racing. It astonishes me at times really.

It's simply not cricket, is it?! :laugh:

[SGWilko]

Agree :up: He wasn't pulling A Shoe Move, merely trying to gain control after overestimating his driving talent.

To a much less severe degree, yes. Add to that Lewis' brakes were cool, and the pre-existing flat spot, mix in Massa's I'm coming through vhatever attitude, and hey presto. :D

[555-04Q2]

I thought this was netball :confused:

[555-04Q2]

To a much less severe degree, yes. Add to that Lewis' brakes were cool, and the pre-existing flat spot, mix in Massa's I'm coming through vhatever attitude, and hey presto. :D

I like how you subtly added the excuses in there to cover for him. Your names not Lewis is it? :laugh: ;)

[SGWilko]

I like how you subtly added the excuses in there to cover for him. Your names not Lewis is it? :laugh: ;)

I got a big book of excuses, and I'm not afraid to use 'em.

PS A quick glance at my bank balance confirms that, sadly, I am not Lewis. ;)

[555-04Q2]

I got a big book of excuses, and I'm not afraid to use 'em.

PS A quick glance at my bank balance confirms that, sadly, I am not Lewis. ;)

Don't worry. Money doesn't make you happy, it just makes life a little easier ;)

P.S. Burn the book :p :

[SGWilko]

P.S. Burn the book :p :

Rebel! :D

[555-04Q2]

Rebel! :D

Poor form :p :

[Retro Formula 1]

What is really making me laugh and hold my head in disbelief are people who have seen the super-slow replay of Hamilton and Massa in Vale, they see Hamilton counter-steering and seem to believe that this is Hamilton deliberately steering towards Massa!

That's because it's difficult to understand how to drive a rear wheel drive race car when your experience is confined to your "wicked" 1.1 Corsa. :laugh:

[SGWilko]

"wicked" 1.1 Corsa. :laugh:

With a really big (and, of course utterly pointless) exhaust, plus the spotty 14 year old GF in the passenger seat..........

[tfp]

With a really big (and, of course utterly pointless) exhaust, plus the spotty 14 year old GF in the passenger seat..........

Lexus lights....

[SGWilko]

Lexus lights....

That's gotta be worth 5mph at least...!

[ioan]

With a really big (and, of course utterly pointless) exhaust, plus the spotty 14 year old GF in the passenger seat..........

You seem nostalgic when recalling your youth! :D

[ioan]

With a really big (and, of course utterly pointless) exhaust, plus the spotty 14 year old GF in the passenger seat..........

You seem very nostalgic when recalling your youth! :D

[SGWilko]

You seem very nostalgic when recalling your youth! :D

Don't get excited, my first car was a Citroen 2CV6 Special!

[Mia 01]

Don't get excited, my first car was a Citroen 2CV6 Special!

I think hammyy should try and race with a Renualt 4L -74, I mean 34 hp and mighty understeering is not an easy task. I know, I owened one of thoose once.
And, (I want to have one of thoose again). Anyone that wants to trade with a Mercedes?

[Mia 01]

How old are you Mia? Thats an old car the Renault. :)
If your Merc is new I'm pretty sure I can get hold of a Renault 4L -74 to trade and if you throw in your house aswell, I might even hoover it out and give the dash a polish. ;) :)

Can you belive it, I´m older tham Mark Webber, that´s says something! Ohh, I forget, I will trade, but with some dosh in between (we got some others cars to). But belive me, I´we owened one of thoose cars and want one again, they are very rare today. And serious, if hamilton drove one in his spare time I think his reputation would rise high. The glamour thing is doing him no good.

[tfp]

Older than Mark webber?What was the boer war like? ;)
I await the cheeky£@*$ reply :)

[SGWilko]

I think hammyy should try and race with a Renualt 4L -74, I mean 34 hp and mighty understeering is not an easy task. I know, I owened one of thoose once.
And, (I want to have one of thoose again). Anyone that wants to trade with a Mercedes?

That's 5hp more than I ever had!!!!!

[Mia 01]

Well Mark Webber is 6 years older than me so you must be ancient.. ;)
Seriously though you are evidently a Swiss Tony style car dealer and I feel I am out of my depth. You see Mia trading a car "is very much like making love to beautiful woman..........." :p :)

Trading a Renualt 4L is nothing like that, and besides, I´m not that beautiful.

Reminder to Lewis, try do some hooning in a 4L.

Thanks anyway.