Quesnel Vs Loeb

[cosmicpanda]

Why do some people in the Acropolis thread think that Quesnel is plotting against Loeb in favour of Ogier? Is this just a conspiracy theory? It seems to revolve around Loeb losing splits on the night stage on leg two, but I don't know that that's good evidence. On the other hand, I can understand the view that Quesnel wants to build up a new star.

At least it's nice to look on Loeb as the underdog again!

[AndyRAC]

Can't see anything in it. However, Ogier is Quesnel's 'boy' - whereas Loeb was Frequelin's boy. There have been rumours/stories that Loeb/Quesnel don't see eye to eye.
Who know what will happen in the future? Personally, I'd love to see him at VW...

[alleskids]

Citroen is in WRC to sell car. Loeb was a perfect marketing engine to sell cars, but his domination has ruined his marketing value. People or more exciting if Ogier wins then when Loeb wins again and again and again. Quesnell has many reasons to make Ogier his lead driver and car seller. Loebs marketing use is coming to the end of his production date. And as already mentioned, Loeb is the protege of Frequelin, and Quesnell wants to run the playground with his own toys, not of a toy left over from the previuews chief.
In Greece Citroen had not many choises with Citoren drivers on position 1 and 2. If they help Ogier, they disadvantage Loeb. If they do NOT help Ogier, they disadvantage Ogier.

[xavier]

check On sait qui est le n°1 : c'est Ogier ! - Rallye de Grèce 2011 - Wrc - Eurosport (http://www.eurosport.fr/rallye/rally-greece/2011/le-n1-c-est-ogier_sto2839459/story.shtml)

Loeb is clearly complaining that his team is helping Ogier to win the rally rather than helping him to protect his championship lead. And Ogier complains that last time there were team order (mexico) Loeb ignored them.

Nice Team spirit at Citroen, but that's what you get when you get 2 drivers with big ego and big potential. Loeb at ford next year? just to piss Quesnel off?

[GigiGalliNo1]

The day has come!!!! Yay!!! I knew this was going to happen and Loeb has or nearly gone past his expiration date. Yes he can still win and will, but it's his time for him to stop... (but I think if he doesn't he still will win rallies but pointless for the sport)

[Barreis]

Citroen is in WRC to sell car. Loeb was a perfect marketing engine to sell cars, but his domination has ruined his marketing value. People or more exciting if Ogier wins then when Loeb wins again and again and again. Quesnell has many reasons to make Ogier his lead driver and car seller. Loebs marketing use is coming to the end of his production date. And as already mentioned, Loeb is the protege of Frequelin, and Quesnell wants to run the playground with his own toys, not of a toy left over from the previuews chief.
In Greece Citroen had not many choises with Citoren drivers on position 1 and 2. If they help Ogier, they disadvantage Loeb. If they do NOT help Ogier, they disadvantage Ogier.

About popularity:
WRC - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?sk=wall)
Sebastien Loeb - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sebastien-Loeb/32950997698?sk=wall)
Sébastien Ogier [Official Fan Page] - Bienvenue ! | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/sebastien.ogier?sk=app_4949752878)
Petter Solberg - Welcome! | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/PetterSolbergWRC?sk=app_139229522811253)
plus:
Mikko Hirvonen official fanclub - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mikko-Hirvonen-official-fanclub/157970524256310?sk=wall)
Jari-Matti Latvala Official Fanclub - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jari-Matti-Latvala-Official-Fanclub/104976889537134?sk=wall)

[focus206]

Loeb at ford next year? just to piss Quesnel off?
I would like to see him in Ford, just to see if their problem is the car or the drivers (even if I think both of them :D ), but it will hardly happen...
Anyway, Malcolm Wilson should try to take advantage of this situation in Citroen and try to take one of their drivers for next year

[Spencer]

The day has come!!!! Yay!!! I knew this was going to happen and Loeb has or nearly gone past his expiration date. Yes he can still win and will, but it's his time for him to stop... (but I think if he doesn't he still will win rallies but pointless for the sport)
Loeb is driving for himself. What makes you think he cares about what others think of him? As long as he's competitive he has no reason to stop.

[Xsara Fan]

'2011 Loeb vs Ogier' situation reminds me '2007 Alonso vs Hamilton' situation. At the end of 2007 McLaren lose both titles... Let`s wait and see, what will happened in WRC.

I think that Loeb already sign contract (for 2012) with another team. That`s why MrQ try to make his life more difficult. Otherwise MrQ is simply stupid.

[alleskids]

[quote="Barreis"]About popularity:
WRC - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?sk=wall)
Sebastien Loeb - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sebastien-Loeb/32950997698?sk=wall)

Loeb will stil be popular, but being him the winner of a rally in a Citroen on sunday wil not sell that much extra Citroens on monday anymore.

Van Merksteijns market value is 50.000 euro - if he wins, the whole rally world is interested in the rally and most are exiting
Ogiers marketing value is 100.000 euro - if he wins, many of the rally fans are interested and exiting
Petter marketing value is 1.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole rallyworld is exciting and very happy and interested in the rally
Raikkonens markteting value is 10.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole autosport world is exciting and very interested inthe rally
Loebs marketing value is 1000 euro's - if he wins, again and again and again, only some rallyfans are intereset and exciting for the rally

Announcing that Loeb has won with a Citroen rallycar is the same as announcing that it is very cold on Antartica and very hot in Saudi Arabia. Rallyfans are only real intereset in the rally if there is a fight, not for a Loeb in a Citroen domination

[wrc1600]

About popularity:
WRC - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?sk=wall)
Sebastien Loeb - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sebastien-Loeb/32950997698?sk=wall)

Loeb will stil be popular, but being him the winner of a rally in a Citroen on sunday wil not sell that much extra Citroens on monday anymore.

Van Merksteijns market value is 50.000 euro - if he wins, the whole rally world is interested in the rally and most are exiting
Ogiers marketing value is 100.000 euro - if he wins, many of the rally fans are interested and exiting
Petter marketing value is 1.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole rallyworld is exciting and very happy and interested in the rally
Raikkonens markteting value is 10.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole autosport world is exciting and very interested inthe rally
Loebs marketing value is 1000 euro's - if he wins, again and again and again, only some rallyfans are intereset and exciting for the rally

Announcing that Loeb has won with a Citroen rallycar is the same as announcing that it is very cold on Antartica and very hot in Saudi Arabia. Rallyfans are only real intereset in the rally if there is a fight, not for a Loeb in a Citroen domination
I wonder how did you get those numbers? Maybe for rally fans Ogier means something but if you ask average driver/car shop customer who is the most popular rally driver they will reply Solberg or Loeb. Ogier needs to earn glory and this will take some years and spectacular wins.

[Francis44]

I think Mr. Quesnell is jumping from the ship too early, because at this current status I dont think Loeb would risk another year at Citroen, and then what?! Who are they going to pick for number 2?!

If I was Loeb, at this given time, I would contact VW to test their car without contract, just to see where they are going with it, and If I felt the car was indeed in the right direction, I would leave Citroen and try VW for just one or two more years.

And Ford?! Might aswell just leave the championship because they are clearly struggling with a unreliable car.

[AndyRAC]

I wonder how did you get those numbers? Maybe for rally fans Ogier means something but if you ask average driver/car shop customer who is the most popular rally driver they will reply Solberg or Loeb. Ogier needs to earn glory and this will take some years and spectacular wins.

To be honest, I doubt if your average driver has heard of any of them.

[tfp]

The fact is, people are bored and done with Loeb winning, and now it shows. Imagine if Manchester Utd won the premier league 7(or 8) times in a row. Everyone would get bored.
I remember a discussion on this forum just after Loeb had won the title last year, we were debating whether any other driver would ever beat him. One guy(cant remember who) hoped that his record will never be beaten, for the reason being that 8 years of complete dominance from one driver will certainly kill the sport altogether.
Now its all starting to surface, and there are clearly eruptions within the citroen team.

Maybe its time for Seb to move to another team(Monster WRT anyone :D ) and if he is as good as his records prove, he can start winning rallies as a privateer. That would be impressive.

[alleskids]

the numbers are to put it in proportion. A rally win for Loeb in a Citroen does hardly make any news anymore, while a win for Ogier, or for the other Citroen drivers does.
Subary rallycars was immediatly linked to the name Colin McRae and vica versa. But how many Subaru's will nowdays be sold thanks to the name McRae?
Mitsubish i rallycars was immediatly linked to the name Tommi Makinen and vv. But how many Mitsubishi's will be nowdays be sold thanks to the name Makinen?
Citroen rallycars was immediatly linked to the name Sebastien Loeb and vv. But how many Citroens will be sold on monday thanks to the name Loeb? a lot less then in 2004, 2005, 2006. Citoen is in rally to sell cars. The more succes in the media, the more sells, the higher the budget. But a win for Loeb does hardly add anything to the budget anymore for Quesnell. So he wants new toys and he wants toys he can own by himself, nit a toy from Frequelin.

Loeb is still a very talented rally driver and still populair with rally fans, but not so populair anymore with Citroen Sport/Quesnell.

[wrc1600]

Guys I know you quite right but on the other hand I still enjoy Loeb winnig :) Maybe it is boring but we can witnessed something extraordinary in rally history. Also I thought other drivers will try to reach his level but 7 years gone and nothing.

[Xsara Fan]

Great battle between Loeb and MrQ at press-conference:

Loeb: I knew it would be some tactics and I knew it would be no issue for me. Finally, there were no split times in the last stage [from Ogier]. With no splits, the team give him [Ogier] the target time. So I asked: “Why do you give him the benefit and not me?” They knew he wouldn’t get his five seconds – he wanted 20 to stay ahead. At the moment, I was frustrated; I didn’t want to clean the road just in front of him. When you see the team playing tactics nearly against me… It’s what we agreed before. If I had been in the position, it would have been the same for me. We know it’s the rule. For me, it’s no team orders; each driver plays his tactics when he wants. If you lead the Championship you cannot do it, but if you are behind you have the cards and it is okay. He has done it right.

Quesnel: The drivers are equal number one so they know they can push. What we did for Sébastien Ogier, we would have done exactly the same for Sébastien Loeb. They know the car is the same. We want this to be transparent for everybody, the media and the fans.

My verdict: Quesnel is amazingly stupid!

[Barreis]

About popularity:
WRC - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/WorldRally?sk=wall)
Sebastien Loeb - Mur | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sebastien-Loeb/32950997698?sk=wall)

Loeb will stil be popular, but being him the winner of a rally in a Citroen on sunday wil not sell that much extra Citroens on monday anymore.

Van Merksteijns market value is 50.000 euro - if he wins, the whole rally world is interested in the rally and most are exiting
Ogiers marketing value is 100.000 euro - if he wins, many of the rally fans are interested and exiting
Petter marketing value is 1.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole rallyworld is exciting and very happy and interested in the rally
Raikkonens markteting value is 10.000.000 euro's - if he wins, the whole autosport world is exciting and very interested inthe rally
Loebs marketing value is 1000 euro's - if he wins, again and again and again, only some rallyfans are intereset and exciting for the rally

Announcing that Loeb has won with a Citroen rallycar is the same as announcing that it is very cold on Antartica and very hot in Saudi Arabia. Rallyfans are only real intereset in the rally if there is a fight, not for a Loeb in a Citroen domination

You forgot one word and that's BRAND. Citroen has brand and that's Seb.Loeb. When driver looses works drive, his brand starts to go down (P.Solberg lost some BIG sponsorships after subaru withdraw but he's still popular). Ogier must make his own brand if he wants to be BIG on marketing table. That's lesson about marketing.

[wrc1600]

Great battle between Loeb and MrQ at press-conference:

Loeb: I knew it would be some tactics and I knew it would be no issue for me. Finally, there were no split times in the last stage [from Ogier]. With no splits, the team give him [Ogier] the target time. So I asked: “Why do you give him the benefit and not me?” They knew he wouldn’t get his five seconds – he wanted 20 to stay ahead. At the moment, I was frustrated; I didn’t want to clean the road just in front of him. When you see the team playing tactics nearly against me… It’s what we agreed before. If I had been in the position, it would have been the same for me. We know it’s the rule. For me, it’s no team orders; each driver plays his tactics when he wants. If you lead the Championship you cannot do it, but if you are behind you have the cards and it is okay. He has done it right.

Quesnel: The drivers are equal number one so they know they can push. What we did for Sébastien Ogier, we would have done exactly the same for Sébastien Loeb. They know the car is the same. We want this to be transparent for everybody, the media and the fans.

My verdict: Quesnel is amazingly stupid!
It's going to be interesting

[Luis Pacheco]

Mr. Quesnel don't want to see next year the number 1 on the VW´s doors.

[alleskids]

Loeb has benifited many times from Citroen team tactics, from teammates doing the dirty jobs for him and staying behind, not giving pressure. He never felt the need to stand up for them. Now that he is the victem of Citroens tactics, he feels it is cheating. Citroen has 2 drivers, both fighting for victory. What ever they do, there is always one driver who is benefititng. This time it was Ogier who had the benefit.

[Spencer]

Loeb has benifited many times from Citroen team tactics, from teammates doing the dirty jobs for him and staying behind, not giving pressure. He never felt the need to stand up for them. Now that he is the victem of Citroens tactics, he feels it is cheating. Citroen has 2 drivers, both fighting for victory. What ever they do, there is always one driver who is benefititng. This time it was Ogier who had the benefit.
You make it sound like Loeb is not Citroen's best bet for the world championship. Even now Loeb is the championship leader - where is Ogier? Behind Mikko.

[MJW]

Mr. Quesnel don't want to see next year the number 1 on the VW´s doors.
Sorry but VW will NOT be in in 2012, that is 2013. The VW is not likely to start testing until December 2011, make no mistake VW is not in WRC to come 2nd.

[wrc1600]

Sorry but VW will NOT be in in 2012, that is 2013. The VW is not likely to start testing until December 2011, make no mistake VW is not in WRC to come 2nd.
I don't think it changes anything, look at Mini and Sordo. They are not going to compete in 2012 but they still have to pay drivers, and who's the most experience guy in this business?

[MJW]

I don't think it changes anything, look at Mini and Sordo. They are not going to compete in 2012 but they still have to pay drivers, and who's the most experience guy in this business?

BMW Mini started with a part programme this year and full programme in 2012. VW will test in 2012 and not enter any rallies as VW next year so they will not have #1 on the doors in 2013 even if they did sign the 2011 world champion.

[tmx]

Announcing that Loeb has won with a Citroen rallycar is the same as announcing that it is very cold on Antartica and very hot in Saudi Arabia. Rallyfans are only real intereset in the rally if there is a fight, not for a Loeb in a Citroen domination This must explain why I stopped watching WRC tv coverages all together and switched to F1.


Maybe its time for Seb to move to another team(Monster WRT anyone :D ) and if he is as good as his records prove, he can start winning rallies as a privateer. That would be impressive. As I mention before, this will never happen unless he is given a car that can win outright with #1 driver status. He will never put that challenge to himself and do what Petter does. This isn't bias view, just how I see Loeb approach it and he has enough success to be in that position of demand. BMW is unlikely, but VW might be possible, but he'll be 39yo by 2013, so I think he'll stop this or next year at Citreon. He don't want to stay around too long to let his rivals beat him and taint his record.

[tfp]

This must explain why I stopped watching WRC tv coverages all together and switched to F1.

As I mention before, this will never happen unless he is given a car that can win outright with #1 driver status. He will never put that challenge to himself and do what Petter does. This isn't bias view, just how I see Loeb approach it and he has enough success to be in that position of demand. BMW is unlikely, but VW might be possible, but he'll be 39yo by 2013, so I think he'll stop this or next year at Citreon. He don't want to stay around too long to let his rivals beat him and taint his record.

:up: +1. I dont think he'd ever pay to be in a rally car, not after the millions he must have earned from citroen:-)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Is this like McRae v Sainz and Ford?

Also, at the time - was Makinen's 4 consecutive titles too many!? I actually didn't want anyone to beat that! :(

[Barreis]

Makinen said after his retirement: "It'll be hard to beat 4 titles in the row." But better came immidietly.

[MJW]

Whilst I have a small feeling of sympathy to Loeb on this, he must feel bad that (certain people) within Citroen seem to favour the new baby over the existing child, I feel that Loeb owes his 7 titles to the fact that Citroen gave him the very best package that may have existed in all times in WRC history. The Xsara, C4 and DS3 all look to be techically superior to the competition. Also except when he was the new kid with Carlos and Colin Loeb has enjoyed a clear number 1 status in the team. I am sure that the Loeb fans will argue but I am convinced Loeb wouldnt be talked about with the same admiration for his record had he spent time driving a Mitsubishi, Subaru, Ford, Suzuki or Skoda.
Loeb didnt say too much when Sordo had to defer to him. I would just love to see a Seb Loeb, Petter Solberg combination in VW. Loeb is clearly rattled that Ogier, in an equal car is faster than him.
Also picking up on what others have said, its not news any more when Sebastien Loeb wins, maybe thats the logic in OQ's mind, also and I dont know how car sales in France work but could it be that the car buying demographic for the DS3 are better suited by a 20 something single guy rather than a mid thirties family man with Loeb?

[Spencer]

Whilst I have a small feeling of sympathy to Loeb on this, he must feel bad that (certain people) within Citroen seem to favour the new baby over the existing child, I feel that Loeb owes his 7 titles to the fact that Citroen gave him the very best package that may have existed in all times in WRC history. The Xsara, C4 and DS3 all look to be techically superior to the competition. Also except when he was the new kid with Carlos and Colin Loeb has enjoyed a clear number 1 status in the team. I am sure that the Loeb fans will argue but I am convinced Loeb wouldnt be talked about with the same admiration for his record had he spent time driving a Mitsubishi, Subaru, Ford, Suzuki or Skoda.
No driver can be competitive in a bad car.

This is motorsport... there is no bigger half, it is always the combination of driver and machine. Loeb owes nothing to Citroen because he's been their best driver, but with what happened on Saturday it seems like Quesnel hasn't acknowledged that fact. For sure you can say that Loeb would not have dominated without Citroen, I agree with that. But the question is would Citroen have dominated without Loeb? Has there ever been another Citroen driver that could've done so?


Loeb didnt say too much when Sordo had to defer to him. I would just love to see a Seb Loeb, Petter Solberg combination in VW. Loeb is clearly rattled that Ogier, in an equal car is faster than him.
Maybe you're missing the point? Sordo was never going to win a world championship. He never ever beat any of Loeb's competition in the championship, whether it was Gronholm or Hirvonen.



Also picking up on what others have said, its not news any more when Sebastien Loeb wins, maybe thats the logic in OQ's mind, also and I dont know how car sales in France work but could it be that the car buying demographic for the DS3 are better suited by a 20 something single guy rather than a mid thirties family man with Loeb?
That's irrelevant. Quensel should be doing his job and try to win the championship.

[dimviii]

That's irrelevant. Quensel should be doing his job and try to win the championship.

Thats the point,and Q is playing dangerously.
I had mention this inside problem at start of the year,it was clearly viewed from first rallies,even when Ogier hadn t been able to finish rallies while he was first with difference.
We are going to have a very interesting rally year with this situation.

[Barreis]

Quesnel has strange voice. :D

[Bobcat]

autosport.com - WRC News: Loeb frustrated by team's tactics (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92483)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Loeb actually drives around in a Citroen van.....

Sordo was consistent if not finishing 2nd most of the top at least doing bloody well. He wasn't able to win or given the chance because of Loeb.

I could see P. Solberg and Ogier in the 2012-13 Citroen WRT. Ogier number one driver of course... Loeb to retire or head to VW, highly doubtful on the second ;)

[alleskids]

You make it sound like Loeb is not Citroen's best bet for the world championship. Even now Loeb is the championship leader - where is Ogier? Behind Mikko.

Olivier Quesnell things Ogier is a better bet for the championship for Citroen, because he favours Ogier over Loeb. Loeb is part of Citroen's rally history, Ogier is part of Citroen's rally future , at least from Quesnels point of view. Also more rallyfans are surprsed and excited for a Ogier win then for a predictable Loeb win.

[Gregor-y]

You forgot one word and that's BRAND. Citroen has brand and that's Seb.Loeb. When driver looses works drive, his brand starts to go down (P.Solberg lost some BIG sponsorships after subaru withdraw but he's still popular). Ogier must make his own brand if he wants to be BIG on marketing table. That's lesson about marketing.
Before 1995 you could not associate many WRC champions with a particular manufacturer. Did something change in the marketing structure then, and was it a trend Subaru and Mitsubishi started?

[bluuford]

So, everything comes together. Loeb leaves Citroen at the end of year, starts testing for VW, at the same time takes part in Le Manche 24 hour race with Audi and shows once again to Quensel how to drive a car, so that Quensel can leave in shame from Le Manche like he has done it in last years.. and Loeb comes back in 2013 and takes title for VW ;-)

[wrc1600]

Wilson played that game in 2009, they let JML win Rally Sardinia and then Hirvonen lost title by 1 point. Also they did not win in manufacturers that year. Dangerous game...

[Zeakiwi]

Loeb enters the French Superbike championship (under an alias Monsieur ______ ) on weekends that don't clash with LM events.

[Mirek]

So, everything comes together. Loeb leaves Citroen at the end of year, starts testing for VW, at the same time takes part in Le Manche 24 hour race with Audi and shows once again to Quensel how to drive a car, so that Quensel can leave in shame from Le Manche like he has done it in last years.. and Loeb comes back in 2013 and takes title for VW ;-)

One question is if FRENCH superstar and national hero could risk to go to a GERMAN team, moreover a guy from Alsace. I don't live in France so don't have the right picture of the situation but I can imagine it could damage his reputation in his country even if he keeps wining.

[bluuford]

There is only one way to find it out :-P

[AndyRAC]

Romain Dumas, Benoit Treluyer - both French winning drivers for Audi!! And Benoit drove a Pescarolo-Peugeot 908 HDi FAP in 2009 at Le Mans - and crashed.....
Quesnel let him slip through the net, as Audi signed him.

[focus206]

Wilson played that game in 2009, they let JML win Rally Sardinia and then Hirvonen lost title by 1 point. Also they did not win in manufacturers that year. Dangerous game...
Ok, but the manufacturers championship of this year is more or less over... maybe if Ford takes 1-2 in Finland and both Citroen have many troubles it could be still open, but probably it won't happen. For the driver championship, Ford can count basically only on Mikko, so I don't think Citroen have much to lose even if Quesnel plays "that game"...

[Barreis]

Before 1995 you could not associate many WRC champions with a particular manufacturer. Did something change in the marketing structure then, and was it a trend Subaru and Mitsubishi started?

For me it was all about lancia, toyota and ford until 1992 when saw McRae for the first time. The rest of WRC is history, he made this sport planetary popular.

[wrc1600]

Ok, but the manufacturers championship of this year is more or less over... maybe if Ford takes 1-2 in Finland and both Citroen have many troubles it could be still open, but probably it won't happen. For the driver championship, Ford can count basically only on Mikko, so I don't think Citroen have much to lose even if Quesnel plays "that game"...
Maybe yes maybe not, my point was at that time (Sardinia) Ford was thinking it won't happen. They were even in better position until the last loop of super stage in Poland, they started to celbrate with champagne in their hands with few rallies to go.

[bluuford]

Ok, but the manufacturers championship of this year is more or less over... maybe if Ford takes 1-2 in Finland and both Citroen have many troubles it could be still open, but probably it won't happen. For the driver championship, Ford can count basically only on Mikko, so I don't think Citroen have much to lose even if Quesnel plays "that game"...

Well, this is motorsport and anything can happen. Good example is Formula Renault 3.5 second race last weekend. Estonian guy was forced to spin on the first corner, he fell to the last place and he made early pitstop and finally he went on to win that race!

There is only 55 points between Ford and Citroen and imagine what happens with one double retirement for example in Finland? Difference will be only 12 points. Even if Ford takes 1, 2 and Citroen 3, 4, then they already close the cap to 39 points, which is 4 points less than maximum score in one rally. Do not say that tarmac is coming and this is in Citroen favor. Remeber how Ogier did in tarmac in 2010? last two rounds, two crashes. Quensel has proved very well that he tends to make some crucial mistakes during managing PSA sporting activities. Good example is the continuous loss of titles in Le Mance, and lost tiles in IRC in 2010. Titles in WRC just proves that it is hard to screw up with such a good and experienced team :-)

[focus206]

Well, this is motorsport and anything can happen. Good example is Formula Renault 3.5 second race last weekend. Estonian guy was forced to spin on the first corner, he fell to the last place and he made early pitstop and finally he went on to win that race!

There is only 55 points between Ford and Citroen and imagine what happens with one double retirement for example in Finland? Difference will be only 12 points. Even if Ford takes 1, 2 and Citroen 3, 4, then they already close the cap to 39 points, which is 4 points less than maximum score in one rally. Do not say that tarmac is coming and this is in Citroen favor. Remeber how Ogier did in tarmac in 2010? last two rounds, two crashes. Quensel has proved very well that he tends to make some crucial mistakes during managing PSA sporting activities. Good example is the continuous loss of titles in Le Mance, and lost tiles in IRC in 2010. Titles in WRC just proves that it is hard to screw up with such a good and experienced team :-)

hmm well I guess a lot will depends on Ogier's performance on tarmac, anyway JML and Mikko need really to score a 1-2 in Finland for them and for the team.

[Bobcat]

World Rally Championship - News - Features - The wrc.com review: Acropolis Rally (http://www.wrc.com/news/features/the-wrccom-review-acropolis-rally/?fid=14930)

Olivier Quesnel: “If the situation was the other way round, it would have been exactly the same.”

Great idea from the red boss. :D

[GigiGalliNo1]

Loeb will be doing NASCAR next year Crash.net report

[N.O.T]

LOL....

[I am evil Homer]

One question is if FRENCH superstar and national hero could risk to go to a GERMAN team, moreover a guy from Alsace. I don't live in France so don't have the right picture of the situation but I can imagine it could damage his reputation in his country even if he keeps wining.

He lives in Switzerland though so I doubt it's an issue really. He's a motorsport star, a rally great...VW will def be keeping an eye on the situation, they'd be crazy not to given the Sainz knows Loeb so well from the Citroen days too.

[Bobcat]

Loeb will be doing NASCAR next year Crash.net report
Yeah with a new hardcore Passat by VW-Skoda. ;)
http://cdn.images.autocar.co.uk/612x408FFFFFFF/Car/Skoda/Octavia/Skoda-Octavia-96111131291181600x1060.jpg

Director for Skoda UK Robert Hazelwood said: “It’s an ambitious project which might surprise a few people, but Skoda is all about engineering excellence and this car is pushing that to new limits.”

[GigiGalliNo1]

But that Skoda is for Land Speed recOrd or something.. Armin Schwartz is to drive...

But really Crash said NASCAR for Loeb... Will give you link. I'm serious!

[Mirek]

Yes, that Octavia (not Passat) is meant for Bonneville Speed Week - that means for a competition where the one, who gets on higher top speed on some 15 km long salt lake, wins.

[Tofrallye29]

One question is if FRENCH superstar and national hero could risk to go to a GERMAN team, moreover a guy from Alsace. I don't live in France so don't have the right picture of the situation but I can imagine it could damage his reputation in his country even if he keeps wining.
The Acropolis is a disaster for Citroen. They win the race but not in the media

People don't understand why Ogier stayed behind Loeb after day 2 because they don't understand the gravel prob. They think it's a plot of Ogier and Quesnel against Loeb, Loeb helped Citroen for many years and now they don't thank him... It's the resume of comments on sport's websites like l'equipe or eurosport.
Before Greece he damages his reputation if he leaves Citroen. But now I think they understand why he could leaves Citroen. It's because Ogier and Quesnel don't like him :eek:

I'm really impressed by the situation :eek:
I hope you understand me because i'm not good in english

Romain Dumas, Benoit Treluyer - both French winning drivers for Audi!! And Benoit drove a Pescarolo-Peugeot 908 HDi FAP in 2009 at Le Mans - and crashed.....
Quesnel let him slip through the net, as Audi signed him.
Quesnel know nothing in motorsports, for example he really discovered Bouffier after Monte-Carlo :rolleyes:
ex-F1 drivers are betters :rolleyes:
And it's not a problem for Dumas or Treluyer. In France nobody know them :D

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Frequelin questions Quesnel’s dealing of Acropolis row (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/frequelin_questions_quesnels_dealing_of_acropolis_ row/)
Guy Frequelin told website rmcsport.fr: “Personally, I wouldn't have handled it in that way. Because I think that managing a rally like that is too big a risk for the Citroen brand and its drivers. Letting them fight at that level, with the reputation of the company at stake, doesn’t seem to me to be the best solution.”

[MJW]

MaxRally | News | Frequelin questions Quesnel’s dealing of Acropolis row (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/frequelin_questions_quesnels_dealing_of_acropolis_ row/)
Guy Frequelin told website rmcsport.fr: “Personally, I wouldn't have handled it in that way. Because I think that managing a rally like that is too big a risk for the Citroen brand and its drivers. Letting them fight at that level, with the reputation of the company at stake, doesn’t seem to me to be the best solution.”
I wish retired people would stay retired, first you had saintly Max Mosely taking the moral line on the on/off Bahrain GP and now Frequelin wants to rush to the aid of his favoured son, as if Frequelin's time at Citroen was all about fairness and equality. Face it, this Seb vs Seb is great for rallying.

[Barreis]

Just like this forum: everybody has the same right to speech.

[MJW]

Just like this forum: everybody has the same right to speech.
Yes but when you and I say something its freedom of speech. Frequelin saying something has more value / importance, my feeling is that like a lot of ex-pwerfull bosses he is missing the ego of being the boss. It shows bad loyalty to a company if after you retire from a senior position you criticise those who replaced you.

[tfp]

Seems like the two citroen bosses keep having digs at each other in the press :p

[AndyRAC]

I wish retired people would stay retired, first you had saintly Max Mosely taking the moral line on the on/off Bahrain GP and now Frequelin wants to rush to the aid of his favoured son, as if Frequelin's time at Citroen was all about fairness and equality. Face it, this Seb vs Seb is great for rallying.

If it was F1, the papers/forums/websites would be going mad about this story: the 7 time World Champion having his event 'ruined' by the boss, who has favoured the young upstart!! Sadly, it's only Rallying - and nobody cares........
It would be even better if Loeb did leave at the end of the season to join VW, then the story would simmer for a year while they test & develop the car.

[Barreis]

All this story is good. As much speech about WRC - as good for the sport. That's we all want. :)

[Tomi]

Yes but when you and I say something its freedom of speech. Frequelin saying something has more value / importance, my feeling is that like a lot of ex-pwerfull bosses he is missing the ego of being the boss. It shows bad loyalty to a company if after you retire from a senior position you criticise those who replaced you.

Agree, the guy should keep his mouth shut, or at least not comment how he whould do, the situation at Citroen is totally different now when the other driver has the courage to do it his way.

[wildsir]

He sees what is happening. Now Loeb realises what's happening. I think he, like anyone, is entitled to his opinion.

Btw, I also think that it is not a coincidence that Ogier splits didn't work on last stage on Sat. Anyone found to be tampering with this kit, should be exclude from the event.

[Sladden]

It makes things interesting. Gotta feel for Loeb who was 1st, 2nd and 1st on the road and still finished 2nd..a moral winner. Ogier is good but I think he still cannot do that.
Will be most interesting to see if Ogier can keep up on tarmac...no road tactic its level playingfield!

[danon]

As to Loeb vs. Ogier. There will be a mental battle between the two. And let's not forget that Loeb was a gymnast. This is an advantage because in addition to balance a rally car he knows how to balance his own body floating weightless in the air. And this is what makes Loeb unique champion. Аnd last but not least - Loeb is noble and charismatic.

[N.O.T]

This is an advantage because in addition to balance a rally car he knows how to balance his own body floating weightless in the air.

ok....

[tfp]

ok....

I was kinda thinking that aswel... :) About loeb being a gymnast, why dont we ever see a backflip off the car anymore? :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

I saw Ogier is co-driving for Loeb in Finland! (See entry list)

[Red bull]

It's not strange for french drivers to be rivals in the same team because with sordo at citroen all was okay untill ogier joined the first team i can remember delacour nearly fighting with panizzi at a rally,maybe the french bosses also enjoy it :D

[Red bull]

It's not strange for the french drivers to be rivals in the same team as there was no problem when sordo was with loeb till ogier came in the first team,i can also recall the delacour/panizzi wars when they were driving for peugeot....maybe the frech team bosses also encourage and sit back to enjoy it :D

[N.O.T]

what makes you think ogier-Loeb are rivals on a personal level ????

[Francis44]

I think they get along nicely out of the car, Ogier is very keen on talks with Loeb, or so it seems.

[N.O.T]

exactly...

unfortunately people confuse Rallying with F1 where since the sporting aspect is dead/decomposed and burried since the 70s they focus more on the clash between the egos of the F1 drivers, and they want to pass this mentality to other sports as well....

[danon]

Recommendations to Seb Ogier:

- learn the backflip off the car first then you m-i-i-ight be able to outperform your "Big Brother" - Seb Loeb.
- Never insult a team mate.
- Be a man and stop crying behind sunglasses.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Can someone round up what the issue is between these guys in a sentence or two? :)

[Gregor-y]

Can someone round up what the issue is between these guys in a sentence or two? :)
Quensel didn't 'discover' Loeb.

[N.O.T]

Can someone round up what the issue is between these guys in a sentence or two? :)

there is no issue...some F1 drama queen wants to tranfer the gossip talk from their sport into rallying...

[Mirek]

Has ever come to Your mind that You might not be right... sometimes?

[makinen_fan]

this is no drama queen thing. you could clearly see it in loeb that he was not happy at all with citroen in both acropolis and 1000 lakes

[Tomi]

This is an advantage because in addition to balance a rally car he knows how to balance his own body floating weightless in the air.

Lol, I guess his weight is the same on ground and in the air.

[Camelopard]

I was at the end of the special stage at the trotting track in Lahti where the 2 citroens went head to head against each other and it was obvious to all that Loeb was not happy when he got out of his car. I honestly don't know what the problem was but it certainly wasn't anything along the lines of 'that was good fun, wasn't it?'

I know Loeb is french and their body language can expressive to say the least, but Loeb was having 'words' with both occupants of the number 2 car.

A friend was much closer than me, just a couple of metres away and he confirmed what I thought.

[N.O.T]

Loeb was talking to him because a rock flew from ogiers car and hit his windshield...i doubt that Ogier did that on purpose...and i doubt that Loeb was giving a hard time to Ogier for something that random...what i do not doubt is that you and your friend should go back watching F1, it provides all the soap opera stuff you crave for.

[Camelopard]

Well I normally 'ignore you' as you write so much garbage, but I had to check to see what gems you would post and as usual you didn't let me down! F1 my ar$e, I can't remember the last time I watched one.

Anyway the friend who agreed with me and was there, unlike you, has competed in WRC events as a driver, has won WRC events as a co-driver, has managed a WRC team. He now runs a very successful historic rally in Sweden and has a very successful tour company.

He has also been to so many WRC rallies that he has lost count and is on first name terms with just about everyone that has rallied or is still rallying.

Therefore, I am more inclined to believe him when he says that Loeb and Ogier do not get on rather than a keyboard jockey like yourself.

As for you, what have you ever done apart from write drivel? Other posters have asked about your credentials and why you are so negative about everything and why just about everything you write is filled with so much venom and hatred and you never answer. I can only conclude that you are jealous and envious of anyone who has done anything with their lives.

P.S., don't bother replying as you are 'on ignore again'. The forum was so much better when you spat the dummy a while ago and said you weren't coming back. :rolleyes: Pity it didn't stay that way!

[N.O.T]

Anyway the friend who agreed with me and was there, unlike you, has competed in WRC events as a driver, has won WRC events as a co-driver, has managed a WRC team. He now runs a very successful historic rally in Sweden and has a very successful tour company.

He has also been to so many WRC rallies that he has lost count and is on first name terms with just about everyone that has rallied or is still rallying.

Therefore, I am more inclined to believe him when he says that Loeb and Ogier do not get on rather than a keyboard jockey like yourself.



the fact that he was inside the sport for such a long time and still bothers with soap opera stuff doesn't do much about his reputation...its nice he has a successful tourist company.

what is the point of answering to someone you are ignoring ???

I am envious (in a good sence) of far more important people than rally drivers and tourist company owners.

Rally is just a sport and i watch it for the sport aspect not the soap opera stuff.

[tfp]

the fact that he was inside the sport for such a long time and still bothers with soap opera stuff doesn't do much about his reputation...its nice he has a successful tourist company.

what is the point of answering to someone you are ignoring ???

I am envious (in a good sence) of far more important people than rally drivers and tourist company owners.

Rally is just a sport and i watch it for the sport aspect not the soap opera stuff.

It would be different if it were the two factory ford drivers argueing and bickering like children :D
Like it or not, those two obviously dont get along very well, and that is never very good for a "team".

[OldF]

I was at the end of the special stage at the trotting track in Lahti where the 2 citroens went head to head against each other and it was obvious to all that Loeb was not happy when he got out of his car. I honestly don't know what the problem was but it certainly wasn't anything along the lines of 'that was good fun, wasn't it?'

I know Loeb is french and their body language can expressive to say the least, but Loeb was having 'words' with both occupants of the number 2 car.

A friend was much closer than me, just a couple of metres away and he confirmed what I thought.

Loeb was not satisfied with the Lahti super special stage. He told mtv3 that in the first corner when he had the outer track, he got all the gravel from Ogier’s car on his windshield.

Loeb barked Jokimaa's super special stage (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fi&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv3.fi%2Furheilu%2Fralli%2Fuut iset.shtml%2F2011%2F07%2F1366949%2Floeb-haukkui-jokimaan-supererikoiskokeen)

[danon]

Lol, I guess his weight is the same on ground and in the air.

It's all about balance... :bounce:

There is another meaning of weight,
called "force of gravity".

[Tom206wrc]

I eagerly wait for Loeb's decision(this week normally) :mark:

[Bobcat]

WTCC: Sébastien Loeb to join series? (http://richardsf1.com/2011/08/15/wtcc-sbastien-loeb-to-join-series/)

[AndyRAC]

WTCC: Sébastien Loeb to join series? (http://richardsf1.com/2011/08/15/wtcc-sbastien-loeb-to-join-series/)

I hope that's not true. The WTCC is a joke, with even less official Manufacturers than WRC. If he's going to do any racing, I hope it's a proper quality series, ie; WEC, Le Mans, DTM.

[Barreis]

Aha.

[N.O.T]

my guess is 1 more year at the Citroen team... to give them a chance to find the No2 to accompany Ogier in 2013 when the big German shepherd will come to WRC.

[makinen_fan]

i hope he stays. especially next year with the changed running order rules, he will not have to run 1st in every stage of the championship, have the disadvantage and still win it... and hopefully show to Seb2 that he is still the master.

[N.O.T]

the thing with Loeb is that if he retires now it will leave a gap in thw WRC since he is still the best out there...none seems to be faster than him at the moment consistently. But on the other hand he has nothing to prove anymore...if he wins this years championship that will make it 8 in a row NONE OTHER IN ANY KIND OF MOTORSPORT MANAGED TO WIN 8 IN A ROW..... that doesn't make him the best rally driver until now but also the best motorsport driver of all times, especially if you take into account that he manages to be fast on the track as well.

I would like to see Loeb get beaten before he retires...it would feel like a proper retirement that way.

[makinen_fan]

if he does retire i will miss his driving a lot. when i see him at the stage live its unbelievable how smooth and tidy he is but still pushing above the limit. the rest of them are all over the place to try to play catch up... i will be at Rally GB this year so I will see him retiring (if he does)

[focus206]

I would like to see Loeb get beaten before he retires...it would feel like a proper retirement that way.

Totally agree. I would like to see it too, or to see Loeb driving a non-Citroen car for 1 or 2 seasons. But I don't think it will happen, my guess is (too bad) he will leave WRC and join WTCC or Endurance :\

[N.O.T]

if he retires he goes home...maybe 1-2 drives for fun in some rallies and motorsports events...think about it.

If he Joins another series what he actually does is he continues to have all the negatives of a professional driver and on top of that on a field he is not master of. A the age of 37 i think there are less and less things you consider a challenge. so please stop with that He will join A-B-C series...he will not.

[focus206]

if he retires he goes home...maybe 1-2 drives for fun in some rallies and motorsports events...think about it.

If he Joins another series what he actually does is he continues to have all the negatives of a professional driver and on top of that on a field he is not master of. A the age of 37 i think there are less and less things you consider a challenge. so please stop with that He will join A-B-C series...he will not.
But Loeb himself said that he won't stop racing, even leaving WRC... I don't think with "racing" he mean a couple of events just for fun.

[N.O.T]

We will see...soon.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

...if he wins this years championship that will make it 8 in a row NONE OTHER IN ANY KIND OF MOTORSPORT MANAGED TO WIN 8 IN A ROW.....

My first post and everybody will suffer my crappy english!

Loeb doesn´t break records if you talk championships of ANY KIND OF MOTORSPORT, dont forget two wheel drivers of motorsport history.

No niin tästä se sitten lähtee niin kuin naapurin Sierra...

[tfp]

My first post and everybody will suffer my crappy english!

Loeb doesn´t break records if you talk championships of ANY KIND OF MOTORSPORT, dont forget two wheel drivers of motorsport history.

No niin tästä se sitten lähtee niin kuin naapurin Sierra...

Welcome!

I'm sure your english is better than my finnish :)

Thatsa point, how many titles has valentino rossi won?

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Rossi 9 titles, but it´s not simple in motorcycles because there is lot of classes. Agostini won 15 titles, Hailwood 9 titles and so on..

Juha Salminen (FIN, enduro driver) has 18 titles if we get all titles. But these are different kind of motorsport,than rally but if we talk ALL KIND OF MOTORSPORT.

These was just examples...

[N.O.T]

NONE has ever won 8 CONSECUTIVE ones....

[N.O.T]

you can only count the top league ones...Loeb has titles in s1600 as well....and many nobodies have titles in lesser divisions of any motorsport so its not a true indication.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

It´s hard to measure top league in different motorsport leagues.
Example, 1960´s competition in 350cc class(TT/RR) was sometimes harder than 500cc and driver can win 350 and 500 title in same season and so on... And in enduro you can´t say strait what class is top league every year.

This is offtopic and i´m sorry about that.

Loeb is great and record breaking driver, my post is not against to him.

[Plan9]

Is Loeb a high profile star in France?

[N.O.T]

yes...he does commercials (not car related) and also after his championship win last year he paraded around the stade de france in his C4 wrc before a Frances friendly match...a french guy would answer it more properly but i think most of french people know him

well i think if any country had an 8 time world champion in any sport, they would exploit his marketing value to the maximum.

[OldF]

Also remembering he got a medal from the French president so he has to have a high profile.

[Juha_Koo]

Also remembering he got a medal from the French president so he has to have a high profile.

And not just any medal, but Légion d'honneur, the highest decoration in France.

[OldF]

And not just any medal, but Légion d'honneur, the highest decoration in France.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t remember what kind of “medal” it was.

[Tofrallye29]

According to the L'Equipe's polls Loeb is on the podium of the favorite sportsmen of the French people for several years, in the last one in july he was 2nd.
He did several TV ads for Citroen, Total and Red Bull of course and also Playstation, Mennen, Allianz, Elephant Bleu (car washing service)...
It's paradoxical but Loeb is more known than the WRC in France !!!

edit : http://www.tns-sofres.com/_assets/files/2011.08.16-top-sportifs.pdf

[tfp]

According to the L'Equipe's polls Loeb is on the podium of the favorite sportsmen of the French people for several years, in the last one in july he was 2nd.
He did several TV ads for Citroen, Total and Red Bull of course and also Playstation, Mennen, Allianz, Elephant Bleu (car washing service)...
It's paradoxical but Loeb is more known than the WRC in France !!!

edit : http://www.tns-sofres.com/_assets/files/2011.08.16-top-sportifs.pdf

I'm sure I remember seeing the playstation one years ago :)

Very good marketing for France and French rally fans, but what about the rest of the world?
If he stays much longer, every sponsership for every car entered in the WRC would be a french firm :laugh:

[Plan9]

Interesting comments. I don't think that Loeb has been made that much of a big deal in the rest of the world. I mean he is no McRae of Tiger Woods in terms of name recognition. I see WAY more ken block tshirts then anything else, but then again, i think that has nothing to do with the WRC.

[makinen_fan]

Very good marketing for France and French rally fans, but what about the rest of the world?


at least he is a big name in france. what about fin rally champions? are they big superstars in the uk? i dont think so... nobody know them except from few that follow the wrc
was burns a big name in any country outside uk? again no... only colin was well known and that's mainly due to the colin mcrae games

[danon]

The number of people fed up with Loeb wins grows (in the forum too).
So, what's the point to stay at citroen other than he got used to be on top of the pack.
Great feeling, sure, but... as with everithing,
one sunny day out of the blue comes to mind the magic word - Quit.

To be or not to be - the epic dilema.

We all had to deal with that one at some point in our live.
But not Loeb and not yet.
He'll stop another day.

Still has a trick or two kept deep in his pocket making everyone in every team crave for him.

[Plan9]

Burns was popular in NZ and so is Solberg. We all still yearn for the Possum Bourne days more however.

[sollitt]

Plan9, I suspect you're talking about rally people. If you walked down any NZ street asking people if they knew these names most would think Richard Burns was the Dunedin liquor magnate and Petter Solberg was a pacific island rugby player. Possum was a household name but I suspect even he has been forgotten by most.

[Plan9]

Plan9, I suspect you're talking about rally people. If you walked down any NZ street asking people if they knew these names most would think Richard Burns was the Dunedin liquor magnate and Petter Solberg was a pacific island rugby player. Possum was a household name but I suspect even he has been forgotten by most.

Yeah, I think that as 2 of the 3 are no longer with us they may have lost some recognition. I am disappointed that Possum may have lost some recognition, I think his book sold very well when it first came out down here though. BTW, you have a mean flag bro!

[Nornbugger]

Burns was popular in NZ and so is Solberg. We all still yearn for the Possum Bourne days more however.


NZ = a couple of hundred people and a few million sheep, its like Ireland where I'm from, we dont signify globally

[WRCfan]

I honestly don't think Possum has been forgotten in any way. The name was soooo well known and people still reocgnise it very quickly. The reason he won't be forgotten anytime soon is the character and personality that he was. I remember very clearly on the Rally NZ no one got a bigger cheer than Possum from the fans, they were there to see him.

[F1boat]

This is very ugly. I have never seen a team treating their best driver so badly. I truly hope that Loeb will win the series and retire in style. I don't think that he will accept a new challenge at that age, be it WV or the WTCC.

[6789]

I honestly don't think Possum has been forgotten in any way. The name was soooo well known and people still reocgnise it very quickly. The reason he won't be forgotten anytime soon is the character and personality that he was. I remember very clearly on the Rally NZ no one got a bigger cheer than Possum from the fans, they were there to see him.
Australia claimed him as our own.. Like we always do :)

[clem126]

This is very ugly. I have never seen a team treating their best driver so badly. I truly hope that Loeb will win the series and retire in style. I don't think that he will accept a new challenge at that age, be it WV or the WTCC.

He's not going to the WTCC as he said on his website : Site officiel de Sébastien Loeb - Home (http://www.sebastienloeb.com/)

[N.O.T]

According to the mentally handicapped then he is going to Le Mans.....

[Tom206wrc]

OFFICIAL !!!!! Sébasten Loeb remains in Citroën Racing for 2012 and 2013 !!!! :D :bounce:

But the story doesn't tell if Olivier Quesnel will be again team manager next year though :rolleyes:

[Tom206wrc]

Source?


Live news from AutoHebdo website ;)

[mousti]

Autonews Magazine » WRC » Sébastien Loeb reste chez Citroën ! (http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=17052)

[makinen_fan]

Sebastien Loeb to remain in WRC with Citroen until at least 2013 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93797)

Loeb extends Citroen contract | WRC News | Aug 2011 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/world+rally/news/172182/1/loeb_extends_citroen_contract.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss)

[focus206]

If it's true - great. I would have really liked to see him with another manufacturer... but anyway I'm happy to see Seb for at least another 2 seasons. :)

[Tom206wrc]

Now I want Loeb in Le Mans too :)

[SubaruNorway]

Pussy!

[bluuford]

Good news! Now there are two more seasons for the opponents to beat him. He showed that he is not coward and do not want to leave unbeaten :-)

[Allyc85]

*yawn*

[focus206]

now it's also on wrc.com
World Rally Championship - News - Loeb extends WRC stint by two more years (http://www.wrc.com/news/loeb-extends-wrc-stint-by-two-more-years/?fid=15178)

[N.O.T]

YES !!!!!!!!!

all the ladyboys can cry now ...LOL LOL LOL

[N.O.T]

This decision makes the VW driver choice really interesting....

Another positive from this contract is that all these mentally non-privileged sheep drama loving soap opera girls are going to SHUT UP with their Le mans WTCC Nascar for at least 2 years....which is a relief for me at least.

[Bobcat]

That's a shame for VW boys.

[Juha_Koo]

YES !!!!!!!!!

all the ladyboys can cry now ...LOL LOL LOL

I didn't know that rallying is popular in Thailand...

[Maui J.]

Great news!
It makes sense for Citroen to keep him. He has become an icon for the company.

[René]

No comment of Olivier Quesnel, which had announced the signature of the actual contract of Loeb...
It would seem that Citroën becomes aware that a great team with great drivers deserves a great Team Manager and that Quesnel will not be seen at his post in future???

It's Frederick Banzet, Citroën General Manager said: « Sebastian Loeb is great one ambassador for Citroën. His picture and ours are hard linked today. He represents boldness, sportsmanship, mind of competition, of values which are dear to us. We are proud of his fidelity to Citroën and that he follows his career with the team which has carried him since his beginning. »

Citroën Sport.

[danon]

Smart move of the noble senior (Loeb) - hard time for the arrogant junior (Ogier).

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Sordo: Loeb was wrong not to join VW (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/sordo_loeb_was_wrong_not_to_join_vw/)

“It’s good for him but he should have taken the risk and gone to Volkswagen,” said Sordo. “Everybody knows he is the best but he is in the best car with the best team and this will continue for two more years. It is an easy way for him.”

[Bobcat]

Sordo: Loeb could have proved himself more by signing with Volkswagen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93819)

"He should have gone to VW," said the Spaniard. "Everybody knows Sebastien is the best and two more years in the same car will be easy for him. Going to Volkswagen would have been more of a challenge."

"It's not closed yet, but it looks like he could make eight titles this year," said Latvala. "With that, I thought he might go. He has achieved everything, with all of his wins and by showing that he can win in the new car - but I'm sure he'll find more motivation again. Maybe he has targeted 10 titles and this is his new aim.

"Loeb was born with Citroen and, even though Sebastien Ogier is a fantastic driver, it would be very difficult for them to fill this place of Loeb."

[AndyRAC]

Sordo: Loeb could have proved himself more by signing with Volkswagen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93819)

"He should have gone to VW," said the Spaniard. "Everybody knows Sebastien is the best and two more years in the same car will be easy for him. Going to Volkswagen would have been more of a challenge."

"It's not closed yet, but it looks like he could make eight titles this year," said Latvala. "With that, I thought he might go. He has achieved everything, with all of his wins and by showing that he can win in the new car - but I'm sure he'll find more motivation again. Maybe he has targeted 10 titles and this is his new aim.

"Loeb was born with Citroen and, even though Sebastien Ogier is a fantastic driver, it would be very difficult for them to fill this place of Loeb."

Loeb re-signing with Citroen for 2 more years is basically a non-story. So what, the status quo remains. I would have liked to see him out of his comfort zone in a foreign team. It would have made the sport more interesting, particularly for the non-Rally followers. Moving wouldn't have had any affect on his 'legacy'. He'll still be the GOAT.....

[F1boat]

No comment of Olivier Quesnel, which had announced the signature of the actual contract of Loeb...
It would seem that Citroën becomes aware that a great team with great drivers deserves a great Team Manager and that Quesnel will not be seen at his post in future???


I hope so. Quesnel has a good record in WRC, but he inherited a winning team and has the best driver. The results of Peugeot in Le Mans are very disturbing and IMO he talks too much and makes some emotional decisions.

[tfp]

I hope so. Quesnel has a good record in WRC, but he inherited a winning team and has the best driver. The results of Peugeot in Le Mans are very disturbing and IMO he talks too much and makes some emotional decisions.

Are you referring to the last le man 24 hours when he cried because he lost?

:rotflmao:

Sorry to bring that up again, I couldn't help it ;)

[F1boat]

Are you referring to the last le man 24 hours when he cried because he lost?

:rotflmao:

Sorry to bring that up again, I couldn't help it ;)

I don't mean the crying part, but the whole management... lots and lots of talking and then...

[N.O.T]

Drama queens and ladyboys unite and rejoice....

World Rally Championship - News - Loeb and Ogier set for tense finale (http://www.wrc.com/news/loeb-and-ogier-set-for-tense-finale/?fid=15235)

we don't need such coverage for our sport...

these things can only bring more fat couch potato F1 fans to our sport which is not good.

[danon]

... unite and rejoice....

The only way to be on top of the three for... ever-more-more-more...

[OldF]

Seems that the Citroen management have take the control over Quesnel.

[tfp]

Drama queens and ladyboys unite and rejoice....

World Rally Championship - News - Loeb and Ogier set for tense finale (http://www.wrc.com/news/loeb-and-ogier-set-for-tense-finale/?fid=15235)

we don't need such coverage for our sport...

these things can only bring more fat couch potato F1 fans to our sport which is not good.

I'm sure it would be different if it were the two fords ;)

[Back-N-Black]

Just finished watching Rally Deutschland. I'm still confused, day 2, team tells Ogier to not push. Of course he ignores them and pushes Loeb. My guess is he is trying to prove to the world how he is just as good as Loeb, he'll probably slow on the last stage of the last day so that he can say he has fulfilled his team orders. What the h__l is that? You are supposed to SLOW down not just stay behind the guy!

What happens, Loeb gets a puncture and loses over a minute. Other than pissing off a lot of viewers why doesn't Quesnel slow down Ogier to give that time back to Loeb? Sounds stupid as I write this but what kind of contract do you sign if you're Loeb, the one that says you are no longer number one at Citroen?

I'm a Ford guy anyway but it still bugs me.

I can see why he's not going to VW, a totally new unproven program in the WRC. Yes I know how great they run the Dakar. I wish he went to Ford, like many others have said, it would really piss off Quesnel and maybe let us see if it's been the car or the driver all these years.

[N.O.T]

Just finished watching Rally Deutschland. I'm still confused, day 2, team tells Ogier to not push. Of course he ignores them and pushes Loeb. My guess is he is trying to prove to the world how he is just as good as Loeb, he'll probably slow on the last stage of the last day so that he can say he has fulfilled his team orders. What the h__l is that? You are supposed to SLOW down not just stay behind the guy!

What happens, Loeb gets a puncture and loses over a minute. Other than pissing off a lot of viewers why doesn't Quesnel slow down Ogier to give that time back to Loeb? Sounds stupid as I write this but what kind of contract do you sign if you're Loeb, the one that says you are no longer number one at Citroen?

I'm a Ford guy anyway but it still bugs me.

I can see why he's not going to VW, a totally new unproven program in the WRC. Yes I know how great they run the Dakar. I wish he went to Ford, like many others have said, it would really piss off Quesnel and maybe let us see if it's been the car or the driver all these years.

Ogier followed the team orders on day 2...Loeb admitted he was cruising and that he did not push so it was normal for ogier to gain some time if he went a little faster.

The puncture was just bad luck given the pace they both had.

Loeb never signed a contract in his career with No1 status on it...in Citroen they have a s rule that both driver start from the same position but when 1 driver takes the lead by a confortable margin he becomes No1...and as individual rallies go then team orders are applied to the leader of the rally to win when there is no fear from Ford. Thats why they employed team orders so early in germany because ford was too far behind and it would be stupid to let them fight for 2 whole days risking everything.

of course people who like soap operas and star trek universe theories see things like Ogier not following team orders, Loeb signing contracts as No1, Ogier going to VW in 2 weeks, Quesnel being sent to prison by Citroen management ects...

[focus206]

Just finished watching Rally Deutschland. I'm still confused, day 2, team tells Ogier to not push. Of course he ignores them and pushes Loeb. My guess is he is trying to prove to the world how he is just as good as Loeb, he'll probably slow on the last stage of the last day so that he can say he has fulfilled his team orders. What the h__l is that? You are supposed to SLOW down not just stay behind the guy!

What happens, Loeb gets a puncture and loses over a minute. Other than pissing off a lot of viewers why doesn't Quesnel slow down Ogier to give that time back to Loeb? Sounds stupid as I write this but what kind of contract do you sign if you're Loeb, the one that says you are no longer number one at Citroen?

I'm a Ford guy anyway but it still bugs me.

I can see why he's not going to VW, a totally new unproven program in the WRC. Yes I know how great they run the Dakar. I wish he went to Ford, like many others have said, it would really piss off Quesnel and maybe let us see if it's been the car or the driver all these years.

You can't ask this much to Ogier. Obviusly nobody like team orders that prevent you to fight for 1st position, but he followed them, indeed both him and Loeb were "almost-cruising", since the others were ages behind.
The puncture of Loeb was bad luck. It would have been stupid and ridicolous if Ogier had to slow down and stop for more than a minute to let Loeb pass. THAT would have really pissed me off.

[Tofrallye29]

Now we know why Ogier was furious :
He discovered in Germany that he was the deceived husband of the system Loeb. Now Ogier won't win in the future because the big boss of Citroen said Loeb must win the championship. French people love Loeb so Loeb must win. In the new contract, Loeb would be the exclusive number one
Business is more important than sport :rolleyes:

[Back-N-Black]

Ogier followed the team orders on day 2...Loeb admitted he was cruising and that he did not push so it was normal for ogier to gain some time if he went a little faster.


Everybody loves a good conspiracy theory but I beg to differ.

Looking at the stage times it looks a lot to me like Ogier never slowed until the stage AFTER Loeb got the puncture. I can't tell right now which stage was in what part of the day but check SS11, 12 and 13. All times faster than Mikko one even faster than Loeb.

What you suggest about how the No 1 driver is determined makes sense, I guess you are probably right? Seems like the number 1 driver for as many years as Loeb has been would be able to come up with something better though. He needs a better agent, heh heh.

[JRodrigues]

Now we're gonna see the real Loeb until the end of championship. He'll win with more than a minute in France.

[N.O.T]

Looking at the stage times it looks a lot to me like Ogier never slowed until the stage AFTER Loeb got the puncture. I can't tell right now which stage was in what part of the day but check SS11, 12 and 13. All times faster than Mikko one even faster than Loeb.


you are wrong... sorry.

[focus206]

Everybody loves a good conspiracy theory but I beg to differ.

Looking at the stage times it looks a lot to me like Ogier never slowed until the stage AFTER Loeb got the puncture. I can't tell right now which stage was in what part of the day but check SS11, 12 and 13. All times faster than Mikko one even faster than Loeb.

What you suggest about how the No 1 driver is determined makes sense, I guess you are probably right? Seems like the number 1 driver for as many years as Loeb has been would be able to come up with something better though. He needs a better agent, heh heh.

Do you rate Ogier so slow? If he wouldn't have slowed down before the puncture of Loeb, he would have clearly gone 1st, since Loeb was "cruising".

[bretddog]

..in Citroen they have a s rule that both driver start from the same position but when 1 driver takes the lead by a confortable margin he becomes No1...

What you describe is the situation that has established only after the previous contract was signed (July 2010). Which is quite a significant point to consider.

If looking back; It's a clear difference from the priority of Ogier this season vs Sordo, or earlier "status" of Ogier. Sordo was always put in position to sweep for Loeb in any leg, and same with Ogier. While this season Ogier is allowed to pull tactics to slot behind Loeb and make the driver leading in points sweep for him.

This type of game is for sure not what Loeb expected when signing earlier non-priority contracts. He always had a sweeper and full team support. Although he may have allowed for it in his contract, he surely did not foresee Quesnel would turn on him like a rat, after all Seb has brought the team. So you can be sure his current contract will protect him against the latest Quesnel agenda in the future. At a minimum it will be a 50/50 share of who takes the sweeping positions.

Of course this may be simpler if the new starting rules are effected, however that can not be guaranteed, so the contract will also cover the possibility of alternative running orders.

There are many comments from the top indicating that current agreement is different from before; World Rally Championship - News - Gales: Loeb staying is hugely significant (http://wrc.com/news/gales-loeb-staying-is-hugely-significant/?fid=15263)

"We did a lot of things to make him stay, to make the association last longer. ... We will make sure he feels at ease in the future."

The exact terms one can speculate, but that they protect Loeb more than before, and more than Ogier, looks obvious. And it's Quesnel who can thank himself for it.

[tfp]

What you describe is the situation that has established only after the previous contract was signed (July 2010). Which is quite a significant point to consider.

If looking back; It's a clear difference from the priority of Ogier this season vs Sordo, or earlier "status" of Ogier. Sordo was always put in position to sweep for Loeb in any leg, and same with Ogier. While this season Ogier is allowed to pull tactics to slot behind Loeb and make the driver leading in points sweep for him.

This type of game is for sure not what Loeb expected when signing earlier non-priority contracts. He always had a sweeper and full team support. Although he may have allowed for it in his contract, he surely did not foresee Quesnel would turn on him like a rat, after all Seb has brought the team. So you can be sure his current contract will protect him against the latest Quesnel agenda in the future. At a minimum it will be a 50/50 share of who takes the sweeping positions.

Of course this may be simpler if the new starting rules are effected, however that can not be guaranteed, so the contract will also cover the possibility of alternative running orders.

There are many comments from the top indicating that current agreement is different from before; World Rally Championship - News - Gales: Loeb staying is hugely significant (http://wrc.com/news/gales-loeb-staying-is-hugely-significant/?fid=15263)

"We did a lot of things to make him stay, to make the association last longer. ... We will make sure he feels at ease in the future."

The exact terms one can speculate, but that they protect Loeb more than before, and more than Ogier, looks obvious. And it's Quesnel who can thank himself for it.

This is the first year citroen have ever given equal status to their drivers. In the past, Loeb has always been number one in the team, always had the number 2 drivers sweep for him etc. And if the number two driver diddnt like it, they could walk. And leave the most successful team in the WRC. And its not as if they have a lot of other teams to go to is it:-) Nothing has changed with the results however, this time Loeb uses his experience to come out on top, something which ogier is currently lacking.
I still havent seen many comments on loeb staying from quesnel. Is he bitter about loebs descision or something?

[N.O.T]

i really need to move into the star trek universe...is it that fun to make things up than facing the facts ???? I do not remember many rallies in which sordo was ahead of Loeb on gravel to sweep....

i guess the infromation about all these imaginary things comes from the same source that suggested that Loeb blocked Solberg from the official citroen team...

oh well...

[bretddog]

I do not remember

That's your problem.

Once in a while you can try to shut up when proven wrong, I'm not expecting you ever able to admit a defeat.

[tfp]

Did you expect any less :p :
Has anyone heard any comments from Quesnel about Loebs new contract? It would be interesting to hear his response.

[N.O.T]

That's your problem.

Once in a while you can try to shut up when proven wrong, I'm not expecting you ever able to admit a defeat.

enlighten me then

[N.O.T]

from a quick search Sordo never run in front of Loeb last year intentionally..... only in 1 event (at the end of the season) Loeb was 1 spot belowe sordo...all the other times was either infront or way below due to the fact he cleared the roads....

Enjoy your star trek universe.

i am not always right but i am never wrong...sorry to dissapoint.

[cali]

i am not always right but i am never wrong...sorry to dissapoint.

Epic N.O.T :D :D

[bretddog]

from a quick search Sordo never run in front of Loeb last year intentionally..... only in 1 event (at the end of the season) Loeb was 1 spot belowe sordo...all the other times was either infront or way below due to the fact he cleared the roads....

Enjoy your star trek universe.

i am not always right but i am never wrong...sorry to dissapoint.

Check 2009, 4 lose gravel rallies, Sordo sweeps at least one leg, either day 2 or 3. Check 2010, Ogier sweeps at least one leg, 2 or 3, of 4 or 5 rallies. Whoever was the most appropriate Citroen to sweep, Loeb usually had one in front whenever possible. You don't need to be just 1 position in front to be the sweeper, be serious.

[N.O.T]

yes but most or ALL of these were due to loeb losing time being first on the road and not due to orders...be serious.

[bretddog]

yes but most or ALL of these were due to loeb losing time being first on the road and not due to orders...be serious.

Sure.. None other Citroen driver ever imagined they could slow down on day 1 to get a favorable road position and a realistic chance to win. Not until Ogier. I guess he must have an IQ twice the level of his predecessors. Though only after mid-2010 season. Well anyway, it was a great idea when it finally came to him.

The fact is you don't ever play tactic unfavorable to your teammate Loeb unless it's clearly communicated you are free to do so. Only one driver got that message.

It's not to take anything away from Loebs talent or genius. But to think that he would have as many victories without this practice is just silly. It has earned him some victories, and at least one or two titles. It's all fair game, this is motorsport.

[N.O.T]

It has earned him some victories, and at least one or two titles. It's all fair game, this is motorsport.

ok not worth the time anymore....

Next year its retirment home for your boy and since none is coming from behind we are going to have less and less of such comments as years pass by....

I can wait.

[bretddog]

ok not worth the time anymore....

Next year its retirment home for your boy and since none is coming from behind we are going to have less and less of such comments as years pass by....

I can wait.

Your such a sad losing creature. Just do yourself a favor and shut up.

[Viking]

Next year its retirment home for your boy and since none is coming from behind we are going to have less and less of such comments as years pass by....

well, no top driver from Greece ever and it ain't stopping your noncence.....

[Back-N-Black]

you are wrong... sorry.

Did you look at the stage times? I am sorry for you.

Remember the Citroens have 2:00 mins, approx, to give, a certainly insurmountable time with the number of stages left, at their skill level, unless a problem occurs.

Stage 11 Ogier beats Loeb
1. 2 S. OGIER 6:09.1 0.0 0.0
2. 4 J. LATVALA 6:10.3 +1.2 +1.2
3. 3 M. HIRVONEN 6:12.1 +1.8 +3.0
4. 1 S. LOEB 6:12.6 +0.5 +3.5

Stage 12 Loeb barely beats Mikko and Ogier is barely beaten by Mikko
1. 1 S. LOEB 8:23.8 0.0 0.0
2. 3 M. HIRVONEN 8:25.5 +1.7 +1.7
3. 2 S. OGIER 8:25.9 +0.4 +2.1
4. 4 J. LATVALA 8:26.1 +0.2 +2.3

Stage 13 Less than a second behind Loeb
1. 1 S. LOEB 8:36.5 0.0 0.0
2. 2 S. OGIER 8:36.9 +0.4 +0.4
3. 3 M. HIRVONEN 8:39.9 +3.0 +3.4
4. 37 D. SORDO 8:40.1 +0.2 +3.6

Stage 14 Loeb gets puncture

Compare SS8 and SS12, Bosenberg, Ogier posts almost the same exact time as before supposed team orders are made.

Compare SS9 and SS13, Birkenfelder, Loeb slows again in the afternoon slightly but Ogier stays within less than a second.

[Xsara Fan]

AUTOSPORT PLUS - Why its war between the two Sebs (http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/3803/why-its-war-between-the-two-sebs/)

[Back-N-Black]

AUTOSPORT PLUS - Why its war between the two Sebs (http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/3803/why-its-war-between-the-two-sebs/)

Argh, it's premium content so I can't see it!

[Bobcat]

News rules in 2012 will ease driver rivalry says Citroen team boss Quesnel - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93916)

Jean-Marc Gales Q & A: Why Citroen needs Sebastien Loeb - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93917)

[Back-N-Black]

News rules in 2012 will ease driver rivalry says Citroen team boss Quesnel - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93916)


not sure that this the way to go. it seems that having to sweep the road is a necessary handicap so that others that are slower have a better chance. how interesting, for us to spectate, is it going to be having the leader get favourable road position each day too? loeb wins by 10 minutes1

my fix would rather be that the slowing down in a stage for tactical reasons be penalized. It could be easily determined in my opinion by looking at in car telemetry. not like european football where everytime a player takes a dive, nothing is done but like in american hockey, where diving is always penalized.

add a truly painful penalty, say 4 or 5 minutes, to any driver determined to be sandbagging. like nascar who has as official at each pit stall you can also determine if coming late out of the pits, etc, was done on purpose as well. heck if you are the leader at the beginning of a day and you are late out of the garage then you automatically get the painfull penalty.

[bretddog]

not sure that this the way to go.
There's a thread on this. (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/142002-change-running-order-again.html)

[N.O.T]

not sure that this the way to go. it seems that having to sweep the road is a necessary handicap so that others that are slower have a better chance. how interesting, for us to spectate, is it going to be having the leader get favourable road position each day too? loeb wins by 10 minutes1


since we are going to have the first 10-15 going reverse, then the top guys (3-5) all get the ideal position. The sweeping stands for the first 5 cars maximum.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Looks like it's Ogier Vs Quesnel

MaxRally | News | Ogier seeks contract clarification from Citroen (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/ogier_seeks_contract_clarification_from_citroen/)

[Barreis]

Loeb gave them 7 titles and Ogier gave them 7 wins. I would give advantage to Loeb looking from realistic and human side.

[dimviii]

its a copypaste from a Greek forum.source is autosport.com. Bit interesting about the opera thing :D

To briefly contextualise, Sebastien Loeb was leading Rallye Deutschland at the end of day one with Ogier right behind. The pair were told – by visiting Citroen dignitary Jean-Marc Gales – stations would be held.

If you'd arrived from planet wherever and gone to talk to the drivers at the end of the first loop of stages around Trier last Friday, you would have recognised one of the two Citroen drivers as a multiple world champion. But it wouldn't have been Loeb. Despite his immense success and towering record, Loeb remains shorn of the arrogance which often accompanies global domination. Ogier, on the other hand is a stranger to humility.

Citroen's current team principal Olivier Quesnel now finds himself in a slightly awkward position. Loeb, undoubtedly Frequelin's boy from the old regime, has struggled to find the same feeling within the team as when 'Grizzly' had been at the top of the tree. Evidence of this came in Greece earlier in the summer, when Loeb accused Citroen of conspiring to help Ogier against him. Can you imagine him ever levelling that at Frequelin? Precisely. Privately, there have been members of the old guard happy to cast Quesnel and Ogier as co-conspirators in Loeb's downfall. Then, not so privately, there was Frequlin and his opinion. Remember that one? The one where he said Quesnel's head wasn't just big, it was about to explode.

Something had to be done – and Loeb's contract negotiations became a staging post for the myriad internal battles that have plagued Citroen's season. Enter Gales. And some genuine sense of justice. Gales isn't just a big noise in Citroen, he's a member of the management board of PSA Peugeot Citroen. In terms of Peugeot and Citroen, he's the big cheese who decides who gets to decide all the identity of all the other cheeses.

Asked about his man on the ground, he described Quesnel's record as "good". Since Quesnel took charge of the team at the end of 2007, Citroen has not lost a drivers' or manufacturers' world championship title. And Gales describes this 100 per cent record as "good". In his next breath, Gales talks about a symbiotic relationship with Loeb.

The allies who have rallied around the big little man could be bad news for Quesnel and Ogier. With team orders back on the menu and, we're told, in clear contravention of Ogier's contract, the younger of the two Sebastiens is already making noises about jumping ship. Having won a few battles, on the evidence of the views from those at the upper end of the PSA pay-scale, he looks to have lost the war. The political war, that is. Whether or not he'd lose it on the stages is another matter. Right now, Loeb's as fast as he ever was. And you'd have to say, that's fast enough to see off Ogier for the time being.

[uranium]

Interviews with Sebs
WRC 2011 Germany Access All Areas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8d89eCflEk&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s)

[tfp]

Interviews with Sebs
WRC 2011 Germany Access All Areas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8d89eCflEk&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s)

:up:

[dimviii]

interesting speech from Ogier.

Google PYeklada (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php%3Fid%3D17702)

[denkimi]

Loeb gave them 7 titles and Ogier gave them 7 wins. I would give advantage to Loeb looking from realistic and human side.
Or did Citroen gave Loeb 7 titles? If Loeb had signed with subaru or ford in his early years, would he have hold so many records?

[N.O.T]

Or did Citroen gave Loeb 7 titles? If Loeb had signed with subaru or ford in his early years, would he have hold so many records?

nobody can answer such questions....so we just take for granted only the facts.

[tfp]

Or did Citroen gave Loeb 7 titles? If Loeb had signed with subaru or ford in his early years, would he have hold so many records?

I doubt it, especially if he joined prodrive after 2003 :D

[sollitt]

interesting speech from Ogier.

Somebody has had a serious dressing down by team management I'd say.

[N.O.T]

as expected...and as was predicted by the great prophet also known as captain obvious...

[dimviii]

as expected...and as was predicted by the great prophet also known as captain obvious...

expected from you? Dont think so....



so you think that Loeb and Ogier will risk the championship because they want to prove to each other who is faster....nice dream. F1 suits you better if you think drivers care about tabloid journalism.....

2nd epic fail is closed.

hope next time to be more carefully about insulting other mates.

[N.O.T]

you should improve your understanding in english because the thing you posted agrees with what i am saying for long long time now....

[dimviii]

2nd epic fail is closed. sorry...

[Red bull]

Poor Quesnel no need to cry that's what you get if you have two of the world's fastest and best driver's in the same team and letting them have equal status '2 number 1 drivers.

[Plan9]

I doubt it, especially if he joined prodrive after 2003 :D

Actually I read an interesting rumor on WRC.com at the time that suggested that Loeb & Solberg could end up as partners at either Subaru or Citroen after their close battles in 2003/4. I am not sure if there would have been a winner.

Funnily enough a similar rumor was floated for a Loeb Gronholm partnership at Citroen after 2007.

I think that theses rumors about jumping ship are more about creating a buzz than anything tangible.

[tfp]

Actually I read an interesting rumor on WRC.com at the time that suggested that Loeb & Solberg could end up as partners at either Subaru or Citroen after their close battles in 2003/4. I am not sure if there would have been a winner.

Funnily enough a similar rumor was floated for a Loeb Gronholm partnership at Citroen after 2007.

I think that theses rumors about jumping ship are more about creating a buzz than anything tangible.

Thats just asking for trouble :D It would have been interesting, but I'm glad they were in different teams in previous years, it made for lots of exciting battles :)

[bretddog]

Team orders drop Ogier 4 points to give Loeb 1.

Loeb: “He started a bit late to give me a chance to score one point,”

Ogier: “I have team orders and I respected this.” Does this mean the end of your fight for the driver's title? “That's your conclusion.. I have no comment about that.”

Ogier’s frustrations intensified when he slowed again before the finish of the Power Stage to ensure he didn’t take any bonus points away from Loeb, who claimed three extra points for topping the times on the rally-closing test.

[Red bull]

Team orders drop Ogier 4 points to give Loeb 1.

Loeb: “He started a bit late to give me a chance to score one point,”

Ogier: “I have team orders and I respected this.” Does this mean the end of your fight for the driver's title? “That's your conclusion.. I have no comment about that.”

Ogier’s frustrations intensified when he slowed again before the finish of the Power Stage to ensure he didn’t take any bonus points away from Loeb, who claimed three extra points for topping the times on the rally-closing test.

Right time for Ogier to join another team and enlighten the wrc again,it doesnt help staying in a good team if you cant win or score points when you are in right position to do so all because of team orders.

[N.O.T]

Right time for Ogier to join another team and enlighten the wrc again,it doesnt help staying in a good team if you cant win or score points when you are in right position to do so all because of team orders.

why they let him win 4 events then ???? when championship was closer also ....

[dimviii]

why they let him win 4 events then ???? when championship was closer also ....

except that it was his fault NOT to be ahead in drivers championship points,if he wasn t out of road for 4th 5th? time at less than a year.