Need some help in creating a new rally game [Archive]

MartinWhite

13th June 2011, 09:57

Hi,

I’m Martin White and I’m from a team of game developers. We are creating a new rally game and would like to know what are the things that disturb you the most in nowadays racing games and what kind of games would you like to see in the future.
We could then take that information under consideration and use it to create something, people actually want and like.

I can say that the game will be online and we are also trying to make it as social as possible.

I hope you have some thoughts to share :)

Martin

Mark

13th June 2011, 10:05

From someone who is a fan of rallying first and games second, realism is the key. Don't made stages extra wide because they'd be easier to drive, don't make them too short, don't be afraid of having stages which take 20 minutes+ to complete.

One of the games I've amired most is Mobil 1 Rally, where they took real stages from the British Rally Championship and modelled them exactly in the game, of course it wasn't 100% accurate but you did feel that you were driving in a real rally and on real stages, not some randomly generated nonsense.

Bruce D

13th June 2011, 10:40

All of what Mark said above, but also read through the Dirt 3 thread on here cos there are lots of mentions in there as to what is wrong with that game and that's a good start.

Also remember that photorealistic graphics are nice but not the be all and end all of a game so rather make it run smoothly first than look brilliant. As per Mark's example, Mobil 1 Rally Championship wasn't brilliant graphics but looked great when you were in them. Also from that game I'd say make surface changes in a stage. Also don't limit it to online only, make it fun offline too for mugs like me with no internet at home in deep dark Africa.

Physics are the key though, either make it like CMR2 or Richard Burns Rally and people will love it. Decide now if you want to target Sim racers or general public which 99% of all the current games do.

pino

13th June 2011, 10:49

Mark

13th June 2011, 10:53

Mark is that you ? :eek: :up:

I haven't had a machine capable of playing rally games for a long while but they are my favourite by far!

bennizw

13th June 2011, 10:54

Very interesting thread. Can you tell us more about the game? I agree with the two first posts: Interesting stages that are a little lengthy, good physics and a good choice of cars. Don´t underestimate good sounds either. Sounds increased the enjoyment of DIRT3 a lot. As already said, nice graphics is a plus, but not a main priority in this kind of game. If you are looking to make physics that are fun to play, but not too hard, check out the physics in Rally Masters Race of champions from 2000. A great game that I have sat a lot of hours with. Made by EA Digital Illusions CE.

pino

13th June 2011, 11:11

I haven't had a machine capable of playing rally games for a long while but they are my favourite by far!

My dream is to play either a CMR2 or Mobil 1 Rally sequel with longer, nasty stages...will never loose the hope :D

MartinWhite

13th June 2011, 11:56

I'm glad that you found time to comment on this.

Basically we are trying to make a web-based game that everyone could enjoy and that would offer a different kind of rallying experience.
There are already so many typical rally games, but we feel that there must be a niche that still hasn't been filled. That's also why I'm asking this information... to reach the niche.

We didn't plan on investing very huge sums into graphics so I was very glad to read that you guys don't consider it to be the most important part of a rally game. What we would like to do though is to make it social so that people can partly get the exitement from racing with each other. We hope that we can find our way into multiplayer rallying in a completely new way.

The biggest problem for us is the driving experience itself. We have played many different racing games and, done quizes and tried to find the optimal difficulty level that wouldn't be too easy, too hard and would also be interesting. I thank you for the information you gave me and the games you suggested to play.. we'll try them out tomorow. If you have any other comments about the driving experience itself, then please do share.

One thing we also thought is that maybe there's another niche somewhere... a niche that no one has thought of before. So maby some of the users in this forum have thought about playing a specific racing game that doesn't even exist or thought that "wow I'd like that specific feature to be in a rally game". If you have then also please do share.

Thanks! :)

Martin

SubaruNorway

13th June 2011, 12:10

Being web based will that alow it to run like any other console or pc game, or will it be very simple?

Just make it like RBR, add downforce simulation and make the cars a tiny bit heavier.

Mark

13th June 2011, 12:21

A.F.F.

13th June 2011, 13:43

The graphics are secondary if the feeling of the game is good. As mentioned above, Mobil 1 rally was brilliant. Having a puncture three kilometers before the end of stage made you wonder if it's usefull to drag the car home or change the tyre. Also, other sudden problems too belong into great game. Sometimes you just have bad luck. But, most importantly, if there are bot's in the game, they should face the problems too. One thing so grat in the game called Racedriver Grid is that you never stop trying because cars ahead of you are as prone to problems or mistakes as yourself. So, if there's AI needed in the game, it should be good. Stages should be realistic. What I would give to drive Ouninpohja, full 30+ kilometers of it :)

IMO best rally gaems are:
RBR
CMR2
Mobil 1

And, did I mention lots and lots of cars. Just take Reinhard's book and put all of them in the game :) From the early 60´s to present :) Thank you !

Captain VXR

13th June 2011, 18:18

Most of the stuff I was thinking of has already been mentioned, but I've never played a game where the cars made decent pops and bangs like:
-iU-arhmAKg
Make sure its available on PS3 as my PC is **** and I don't yet own a X360
Edit - I'd like to be able to purchase ordinary cars and build them up to be rally cars

lcd

13th June 2011, 20:32

Hi Martin, there's a Bible of rally gaming and It's called RBR.
Make Its sequel and you will have nothing to fear of ;)

btw, Is there any website or blog or fb page or any location on the Internet to find more of this effort?

Bruce D

14th June 2011, 06:36

check out the physics in Rally Masters Race of champions from 2000. A great game that I have sat a lot of hours with.

Oh man, I forgot about this game! This game had the BEST physics for a Formula 2 car ever and the 4wd physics weren't bad either, I'd settle for handling like this game.

Martin, you talk of web-based only, which obviously means I can't use it with no internet, but here is a suggestion, take a look at the RBR Czech site, they do a plugin to run their events which allows both online and offline. If you decide to do offline then you can download a file which is a few kilobytes but contains all the event details and all the times and splits done to that point so it will still feel like you're competing against others even though you're offline, but then you can upload your times and be counted. It works very well and I've enjoyed it in the past.

MartinWhite

14th June 2011, 09:27

We try to make it as simple as possible but at the same time find a way to make something that is totally different from everything else that has already been created.
What do you specifically like about Richard Burns Rally?... we are going to user-test it today or tomorrow but still would ask your comments on it.

The car sound improvement was a good idea, we took it under serious consideration to making it one of our niches.

We already have a development page but we don't want to ruin your ideas with hints or screenshots etc. yet. We'd like clean thoughts without spoiling it with frames. But soon we I'll show you what it's going to look like and probably you'll also get a chance to be our test drivers... of cource if you want to be :)

Again thanks for all the info and if you have any new ideas poping to your heads then please do share :)

Martin

bennizw

14th June 2011, 11:48

Will the game support a range of steering wheels, or is the game to be to simple for that use?

habsalot

14th June 2011, 17:02

Thank you for opening this up to the users . I have played most of the rally games mentioned from CM series from CMR 2 to Dirt 3, Mobil 1 , RBR , Rally Trophy and Rallisport Challenge . While all are mostly fine games but each one seems to be lacking in 1 or two areas. Allow me to list what I would be looking for in the ultimate Rally game. First of all, good to hear the graphics would not be the ultimate goal and I agree with all the comments made so far.

Stage lenght : Mobil 1 stages were the best in terms of the lenght.

Handling: RRB & Rally Trophy : They are the benchmarks so far as handling goes. A steep learning curve but once
mastered seems the best so far in terms of the handling of a real Rally car.

Atmosphere : CMR 4, Dirt 1 & WRC 2010 give the sense with the career path that you are a Rally driver particating in the top
level of the sport . I have yet to play WRC 2010 but it does provide the gamer with the feeling of being in the
different series from JWRC, PWRC and WRC .

Stage diversity : Mobil 1 and Dirt 1 , stages representative of what real stages are like. Especially Mobil1 with narrow stages
that seem to reflect the real life British Championship

Cars : most of the cars in all the games mentioned are fairly accurately reprensented. This is the one area I have a criticism
of RBR . Not enough cars and only 1 FWD in the original games althought the modders have been fantastic.

habsalot

14th June 2011, 18:18

Sorry for message interuption , my keyboard crapped out .

Weather effects : the notable mention is the fog in CMR 2 , rain in CMR 4 and the night stages and sun glare in Rally Trophy .
In summary these are the points I feel would make a great Rally game if all incorporated in a single game .
Glad to hear you will be playing RBR for research.
I use xbox so that is also crucial and release or access for North America also crucial .

Hope I contributed to the discussion . Thank you in advance .

bennizw

14th June 2011, 19:02

I would like to add something to habsalot´s atmosphere category:

Build a career mode like V-rally 3! For me this has been the best mode made in a rally game of all time. Here teams would approach you with offers of test driving and later an eventual contract. At the same time you recieved e-mails from fellow competitors before and after events, where you could answer them back. Make a mode like this, only more complex, and you have a great starting point :)

Handlingwise, I would advice you to build a physics engine that fits in between RBR and Rally Masters, challenging, but not too hard.

lcd

16th June 2011, 13:15

OK, let's have this one stickied! ;)

bennizw

16th June 2011, 13:32

How did the user-test of RBR go?

lcd

16th June 2011, 14:15

There are many things why RBR has the most devoted fans.
Sadly, most of them aren't in the priorities list of gaming companies nowdays due
to the risk of low sales, but that's a very wrong Impression they got there.
A successor of RBR with the tech of today, would definetely make a blast.

Here Is a short list, of the great things RBR only has:

1. Long, narrow,twisty stages
2. Realistic car physics
3. Punishing damage system
4. Dynamic weather
5. Real rally atmosphere
6. Modding capabilities

Of course there are many more great things added the past years, thanks to the community,
but let's stay on the things the original title offered, back In 2004!!!

MartinWhite

16th June 2011, 14:17

Hi

Sorry I couldn't write you sooner, we've been really busy.

We run into some problems turning our originally planned game into a fully 3D simulatior and also did a fair bit of market research to find what works most at nowadays racing games.

I can't thank you enough for all the information you have given me. All of it is in our database and we are going to use it in the future to update our game to full 3D.

At this point our game will be partly 3D and partly "GTA style". And it will be a street rally game at first. We will also concentrate on the social factor hoping that it will be one of the nieches. I'll soon be able to show you the beta testing version.

I hope that you're not dissapointed by these news and I hope that I am still connected to this community when we start modifiying it further to realize all of the suggestions given by you.

The RBR user test was great fun. We understood that the best part of the game is handling and the fact that you don't have to be a rocket scientist to play it.

Again thanks a lot and I'll keep you updated with the news if you want me to :)

Cheers,
Martin

bennizw

16th June 2011, 14:19

A street rally game? Please explain this?

Mark

16th June 2011, 14:22

What's street rally?

Presumably it's rallying. And if you don't know what rallying is, what are you doing here? :p

lcd

16th June 2011, 14:23

I guess he means something like Need for speed, or Grand Theft Auto or GRiD???
Something with a lot of asphalt for sure...The word 'rally' probably Isn't suitable there... :p

MrMetro

16th June 2011, 15:39

...And it will be a street rally game at first. We will also concentrate on the social factor hoping that it will be one of the nieches.

I'm greatly intrigued what a "street rally game" is...

bennizw

16th June 2011, 16:01

Yes, I cannot see that "rally" is the fitting word for the game..

habsalot

16th June 2011, 16:25

With all due respect , it appears you would need to clarify for your selves what Rally is .
The only thing I can thing of the would classify as street rally would be the Targa series . There are a few I can think of Targa Tazmania , Targa Adelaide ( maybe called Targa Australia ) and Targa Newfoundland. These combine elements of what is nowadays modern Rally timed stages and the classic Rally of endurance on closed routes using pace notes .
Research the Targa style of rally and it may provide some direction as your first intention was to create a unique racing game.
The is a thread in this forum about a Targa Style game but I am not very good at showing how to link to it . It called
Targa Tasmania The Game see page 4 of the previous threads.
Hope my note does not sound to harsh it just seems you are not too familiar with Rally

Mark

16th June 2011, 16:31

Yes, I cannot see that "rally" is the fitting word for the game..

Why not?

Rally is a very well understood term, hence the FIA World Rally Championship.

bennizw

16th June 2011, 16:37

It would be interesting to see the final result, but for me it doesn´t sound like a proper rally game, by it being a "street rally game", but please prove me wrong :)

Mark

16th June 2011, 16:38

I still don't understand what you mean by street rally, and what you would consider a proper rally game.

lcd

16th June 2011, 18:13

I still don't understand what you mean by street rally, and what you would consider a proper rally game.

I guess point to point races on all kinds of surface (gravel,tarmac,snow) Is considered a proper rally game.

Anything else but that, Is far away from the main Idea, even If the term 'rally' Is used.

Fast Eddie WRC

16th June 2011, 21:16

bennizw

16th June 2011, 22:13

LCD said it, Mark :)

A.F.F.

18th June 2011, 18:27

*sigh*

:mark:

If only I had the money, I'd invest it to develop a game we all have talked about here. I'm sorry but I don't like the sound of street rally.

SubaruNorway

18th June 2011, 19:11

Here's another good one from the new WRC 2 game.

"We really want to deliver a state-of-the-art off-road motorsport experience which combines a great graphics impact, the best driving model in this genre and all the WRC elements from the current season such as all classes, drivers, all rallies as well as much more to enjoy.”
World Rally Championship - News - October release for WRC 2 video game (http://wrc.com/news/october-release-for-wrc-2-video-game/?fid=14901)

I thought rally was on-road? So frustrated with all these bad developers i feel like punching something...

52Paddy

19th June 2011, 15:23

One thing that I've hoped to see in a rally game is the ability to easily edit the pacenotes (perhaps through a microphone and some in-game recording software). This would definitely notch my marks for the game up a little. I appreciate what you are trying to do but, if you want to appeal to the hardcore fan, you honestly cannot be prepared to make compromises.

AndyRAC

26th June 2011, 17:16

So if it's via the web it'll have to be simple right?

This is nice and simple YouTube - ‪Colin McRae Rally - Corsica - Stage 3‬&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP2fkKJHqHQ&feature=grec_index) and yet awesome.

I still play on this game - and remember the day it came out. Had some of the greatest stages in gaming!!

Loved the Mobil 1 BRC game - you really had to concentrate, 15-20 min stages. Epic!!!

intheway

27th June 2011, 14:31

As said previously, physics are the key ... make it like CMR2 but with modern graphics.

I am still playing this game 10 years after launch and have been so disappointed with all the other rally games I've bought since.

CMR2 was great alright - probably not realistic, but it was just damn fun handling.

Anyway, having never driven a rally car flat out through a forest on gravel, it's hard to have a real idea of what "realistic" is. I'll take fun and a bit challenging any day.

MartinWhite

13th September 2011, 15:49

Hi everyone, haven't written here for a while.

We have now reached to a point where we can spread the word about our game.
Some of you might be dissapointed but I'll add a short list of reasons, why we made the game as it is right now

There are many racing games that appeal to their players purely with 3D graphics and stunning visual effects. We wanted StreetRally to be visually appealing aswell but didn’t concentrate on competing with the games that rule the market with top graphics and visual effects.

Instead we wanted to offer our players a bit different kind of experience. We concentrated on creating a game that offers a little bit of everything, is fun to play and is a bit different than most of the games.

That’s also why we decided to choose the top down view – to differ and stand out from other games. If you roam around the internet you won’t find many games that have connected the car dealership, car tuning, social racing, multiplayer and top down racing feature into one game

The game itself is here: StreetRally sur Facebook | Facebook (http://apps.facebook.com/streetrally)

Tell me what you think :)

Cheers,

Martin