canadian donkey of the race (so far)

[donKey jote]

Formula 1 Live Timing?

[AndyL]

What are you seeing? It's looking OK from here.

[donKey jote]

yep works now...

so I'm the donkey so far then :D

[truefan72]

how about charlie whiting for starting the race behind the safety car!

ridiculous

[donKey jote]

HAMILTON :crazy:

[Daniel]

Hamilton...... Please ban him

[F1boat]

Lewy... nothing learned from Monaco. Obviously.

[truefan72]

jenson button!!! WTF!

[Daniel]

Wow truefan, I know you're a Lewis fan and all.....

[truefan72]

Hamilton...... Please ban him

nonsense, that was button's fault completely
mr slow man button clearly went into him
he knew he was there and squeezed him into the wall

[F1boat]

Lol, now Jenson will be investigated xD. McLaren keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[truefan72]

Wow truefan, I know you're a Lewis fan and all.....

wow Daniel, I know you are a Lewis hater and all...

[Jake Stephens]

I think that was Hamilton's fault, looks like he had time to back out and didn't do it.

[F1boat]

Lewis was idiot, Jenson too, they did a Red Bull and now Jenson having speed limit. This is is amusing xD

[Daniel]

Truefan, jenson didn't alter his course and Lewis just drove into him

[Jake Stephens]

Lewis was idiot, Jenson too, they did a Red Bull and now Jenson having speed limit. This is is amusing xD

I agree, both had a no brains moment. McLaren love shooting themselves in the foot don't they? :)

[F1boat]

Yeah, although Jenson is driving very well now and if I am honest, Lewis again drove like Jenson should move out of his way. And he didn't xD

[donKey jote]

ferrari's pit strategist

[F1boat]

horrid rain, do you think that the race should be stopped?

[Garry Walker]

Truefan, jenson didn't alter his course and Lewis just drove into him

No, next time dont drink so much on saturday. The incident was 100% button`s fault.

Donkey - Both Rapunzel for being a pussy and Button for ramming out his teammate.

[steveaki13]

I think Mclaren should appeal to the stewards to get that Mclaren Driver Banned. He is at fault and crashed into their Mclaren driver. That Mclaren driver is an idiot and Mclaren shouldn't stand for it. ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

People blaming Lewis for the Button incident REALLY need to invest in a good pair of prescription glasses or just get a new set of eyeballs altogether. Button made a mistake on the turn before the main straight, Lewis got a better run and Button left no room for him whatsoever. Lewis' front left was on the grass for crying out loud. See the replay again and watch Button turn into Lewis.

[Daniel]

Button does not have to give Lewis room. Invest in some understanding of the rules.

[CaptainRaiden]

Button does not have to give Lewis room. Invest in some understanding of the rules.

He doesn't have to to blindly turn in to him either. Have you seen the replay again by any chance?

[steveaki13]

He doesn't have to to blindly turn in to him either. Have you seen the replay again by any chance?

I don't think he just turned in.

All drivers in clear air move wide through that section.

He moved in a way looking as though he did not know a car was coming alongside.

So I assume he didn't see him.

[Daniel]

He didn't turn in....

[christophulus]

On the replay it looks as though Button looks in his mirror, so should've seen Hamilton. He moved across onto the "normal line" too late to block - he'd have known that he had a bad run off the last corner and was vulnerable to Hamilton coming alongside and trying to get past.

On balance probably a racing incident but I'd say more blame on Button.

[AndyL]

Check out the head on-replay. Jenson checks his left mirror before moving left towards the wall on the normal racing line - checking that Lewis is not coming up the left. At that point Lewis is still in line behind Button. Jenson looks back ahead and Lewis then pulls out.

[Sonic]

He saw him. No question about it. That said, Lewis is still a donkey - he isn't maturing as a driver and get into more scrapes now than ever before.

[CaptainRaiden]

I don't think he just turned in.

All drivers in clear air move wide through that section.

He moved in a way looking as though he did not know a car was coming alongside.

So I assume he didn't see him.

IMO he tried to block the car behind, which I'm guessing he knew was there. He just didn't gauge how far along was it or how much width did he give Lewis. I know it was raining and all, but surely he could have seen Lewis.


He didn't turn in....

Yep, Lewis obviously tried to take out Jenson with two wheels on the grass. Not that Button was slow as a lawnmower getting out of the final corner and Lewis went for a legitimate overtaking move. Let's all begin the Lewis hatefest and ask for race bans...

[steveaki13]

Check out the head on-replay. Jenson checks his left mirror before moving left towards the wall on the normal racing line - checking that Lewis is not coming up the left. At that point Lewis is still in line behind Button. Jenson looks back ahead and Lewis then pulls out.

That appears about right.

I assume he was that far to the left, that he thought Lewis would attack on the right.

[steveaki13]

don't feel either is too blame massively.

Hamilton made a move honestly and Jenson misjudged the situation and an unfortunate collision insued.

[UltimateDanGTR]

I love how everyone has a different pair of spectacles on from each other with these incidents. Behind my dusty, cloudy old things I saw that Button moved over on Lewis, (and the replays show he looked left as he did so) but Lewis could have possibly backed out of it before it's too late. 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

As for the webber incident, it's clear to me the initial move Lewis made was totally legitimate as Webber gave him acres of space, but at a corner where they had never turned a wheel at racing speeds in the wet, Lewis ran out of grip. Webber was just an unlucky obstacle. Alonso did the same but he was luckily enough not to have anyone in his way.

Still, another hard weekend being a Mclaren fan. Maybe I should switch allegiences to a team that don't have their drivers crash into each other, like Red Bull. Oh no wait...

[Daniel]

X. There's a difference between holding a line and turning...

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Hamilton crashed into Button. Hamiltons front wing hit Button rear wheel. How can Button be at fault?

[AndyL]

I love how everyone has a different pair of spectacles on from each other with these incidents. Behind my dusty, cloudy old things I saw that Button moved over on Lewis, (and the replays show he looked left as he did so) but Lewis could have possibly backed out of it before it's too late. 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

The replays showed that when Button looked left, Lewis was directly behind him.

[Jake Stephens]

Jenson did move across, we can clearly see that. However, Lewis did have time to back out and prevent a collision. I feel Lewis presumed his team mate would give him an easier time and allow him get by. In other words, he thought Jenson would alter from his usual line for him. Lewis tried to put his car into a space which wasn't available.

[Daniel]

Button NEVER deviated from his course at any point while Hamilton was alongside. As I said before there is a difference between a driver holding a line and a driver turning in.

[steveaki13]

Button NEVER deviated from his course at any point while Hamilton was alongside. As I said before there is a difference between a driver holding a line and a driver turning in.

Yep Agree

[ShiftingGears]

Truefan, jenson didn't alter his course and Lewis just drove into him

Button kept coming across the track, it was entirely his fault. Just like Turkey 2010 was entirely Vettel's fault.

[Daniel]

Lewis was hardly alongside. There's NOTHING in the rules that says Button can't keep on coming.

[The Black Knight]

People blaming Lewis for the Button incident REALLY need to invest in a good pair of prescription glasses or just get a new set of eyeballs altogether. Button made a mistake on the turn before the main straight, Lewis got a better run and Button left no room for him whatsoever. Lewis' front left was on the grass for crying out loud. See the replay again and watch Button turn into Lewis.

It looks to me like Button was looking left in his mirror, then just as he stopped both him and Lewis moved to the left hand side of the straight, so Button didn't know Lewis was there. It was a racing incident, in my opinion but Lewis should probably have backed out sooner than he did.

The Webber coming together was a racing incident for sure. Lewis understeered into Webber. If it was dry I'd give him a penalty but it was wet so not a lot he could have done about it.

Bad luck for Lewis at the moment. A marginal decision against Button which cost him dearly.

[N4D13]

What do you think about Alonso's clash with Button? I need to rewatch it, but Alonso had the race line and was a bit in front of Button, but Jenson had the inside. Alonso was a bit too optimistic there, but maybe Button could have given him more room. If that's the case, then it's 50-50; otherwise, it's Alonso's fault and that's about it.

[donKey jote]

50-50 from here :)

[donKey jote]

donkeys of the race: everybody except Vettel and Schu :p

[donKey jote]

correction: except Schu :D

[Garry Walker]

Rapunzel for making a huge mistake under pressure, despite having the clearly best car. Fool

[AndyL]

What do you think about Alonso's clash with Button? I need to rewatch it, but Alonso had the race line and was a bit in front of Button, but Jenson had the inside. Alonso was a bit too optimistic there, but maybe Button could have given him more room. If that's the case, then it's 50-50; otherwise, it's Alonso's fault and that's about it.

Need to see it again but I think Alonso left room on the inside, but Button couldn't get it slowed down and turned in quick enough.

[Daniel]

I think he's going to get a penalty.

[AndyL]

I'm going to nominate Vettel for donkey of the race, for making a slight mistake on the last lap. Might be the only chance to nominate him for donkey this season ;)

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Lewis was hardly alongside. There's NOTHING in the rules that says Button can't keep on coming.

The rules of physics? Like two cars cannot be in the same place? He clearly made a mistake not realizing LH was there. That said, if they didn't punish him during the race, it would be a travesty taking away the win afterwards.

[Daniel]

Perhaps Lewis (you know, the one who could see where Jenson was) should have decided not to try and fit 2 cars into the space of one?

[donKey jote]

ahem, and button (you know, the one who could see where Alonso was) ? :p

[Daniel]

Don't disagree.

[tfp]

Perhaps Lewis (you know, the one who could see where Jenson was) should have decided not to try and fit 2 cars into the space of one?

:up: +1 I dont think it was one driver in particular at fault, but Hamilton shouldnt have driven so aggressively against his team mate.

[ShiftingGears]

Perhaps Lewis (you know, the one who could see where Jenson was) should have decided not to try and fit 2 cars into the space of one?

And there was space, once he was committed, but then Button kept coming across....

Hardly a reason for people to call for race bans for Hamilton.

[Garry Walker]

:up: +1 I dont think it was one driver in particular at fault, but Hamilton shouldnt have driven so aggressively against his team mate.

Of course then you will agree that Button should not have totally closed the door on Hamilton when Hamilton had committed himself to going for the move already?

[The Black Knight]

What do you think about Alonso's clash with Button? I need to rewatch it, but Alonso had the race line and was a bit in front of Button, but Jenson had the inside. Alonso was a bit too optimistic there, but maybe Button could have given him more room. If that's the case, then it's 50-50; otherwise, it's Alonso's fault and that's about it.

It seemed like a racing incident. I couldn't make it Alonsos fault, he had the racing line. Just reminds me of Kubica and Schumacher last year except this time no one ran over the grass. Racing incident in my opinion.

[Ranger]

Charlie Whiting.

Why does the track need to be at intermediate-tyre pace before the race restarts??

[Daniel]

And there was space, once he was committed, but then Button kept coming across....

Hardly a reason for people to call for race bans for Hamilton.

Hamilton is a repeat offender. He needs to sit out a race.

I'm sorry but Button COULD NOT SEE HIM!!!! HAMILTON COULD SEE THE ACCIDENT COMING AND THOUGHT HE WAS FREAKING MOSES.

[The Black Knight]

Hamilton is a repeat offender. He needs to sit out a race.

I'm sorry but Button COULD NOT SEE HIM!!!! HAMILTON COULD SEE THE ACCIDENT COMING AND THOUGHT HE WAS FREAKING MOSES.

Button doesn't seem to agree with you. In the press conference afterwards he said he had apologised to Hamilton.

[tfp]

Charlie Whiting.

Why does the track need to be at intermediate-tyre pace before the race restarts??

:up: +100

[Daniel]

Button doesn't seem to agree with you. In the press conference afterwards he said he had apologised to Hamilton.

He said he was sorry that the accident happened, not that he caused it. Big difference.

[ShiftingGears]

Hamilton is a repeat offender. He needs to sit out a race.

Incidents should be taken at face value, and I have seen no such incidents to warrant a race ban.


I'm sorry but Button COULD NOT SEE HIM!!!! HAMILTON COULD SEE THE ACCIDENT COMING AND THOUGHT HE WAS FREAKING MOSES.

So Hamilton knew that Button couldn't see him? He's just that talented is he? It is at worst, a racing incident. Not exactly uncommon today.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

My favourite donkey was the marshall who fell over

[The Black Knight]

He said he was sorry that the accident happened, not that he caused it. Big difference.

Oh? Well, when the transcript of the press conference comes out please do show where he makes that distinction as I certainly didn't get it from what he was saying.

To me that was a racing incident, no more. I know you like to blame Lewis for an incident just because he's part of one but no one was to blame there. Ok, maybe Hamilton could have backed out but he obviously wasn't expecting Button to close him out. He thought Button knew he was there. It's racing, these guys are racers and incidents like that happen.

[The Black Knight]

My favourite donkey was the marshall who fell over

Haha, agreed. That was hilarious.

[Daniel]

But it's always Hamilton. He needs to be given a PROPER penalty. Hamilton must have seen the track rapidly getting filled by McLaren.....

[wedge]

Alonso - for jumping out of his car and not getting a push start.

Hamilton's racecraft appeared to be sloppy. He was too far behind on the racetrack to set himself up for turn 1 and perhaps should have gone for the inside of the right hand kink.

But pit straight has an awkward diagonal racing line and the incident occured when you have to switch from right-left. So perhaps its a racing incident.

[The Black Knight]

But it's always Hamilton. He needs to be given a PROPER penalty. Hamilton must have seen the track rapidly getting filled by McLaren.....

Well there was a time when people said it was always Senna too. In the end, with a racer like Lewis he'll pull off 20 maneuvers and maybe 2 won't come off. He'll bounce back in Valencia. No doubt.

[AndyL]

Charlie Whiting.

Why does the track need to be at intermediate-tyre pace before the race restarts??

A very good question.


My favourite donkey was the marshall who fell over

Yeah, those marshals clearly should have been on inters instead of slicks at that point of the race :)

[truefan72]

A very good question.

indeed


Yeah, those marshals clearly should have been on inters instead of slicks at that point of the race :)

lol

[Daniel]

Well there was a time when people said it was always Senna too. In the end, with a racer like Lewis he'll pull off 20 maneuvers and maybe 2 won't come off. He'll bounce back in Valencia. No doubt.

I think you seem to forget about Monaco and Canada.....

[truefan72]

But it's always Hamilton. He needs to be given a PROPER penalty. Hamilton must have seen the track rapidly getting filled by McLaren.....

there is a lunar eclipse tonight...get ready to blame hamilton

[donKey jote]

My favourite donkey was the marshall who fell over
nah, that was clown of the race :laugh:

[wedge]

A very good question.

To pre-empt half the grid spinning off.

Nevertheless it deserves a FAIL

[Daniel]

there is a lunar eclipse tonight...get ready to blame hamilton

You seem to forget that I didn't blame Hamilton for the contact with Webber, well that's your pitiful argument disproven isn't it? :rolleyes:

[The Black Knight]

I think you seem to forget about Monaco and Canada.....

Nope, it is you that is forgetting that he has pulled off nearly 30 succesful overtaking meneuvers in the last 6 races. He had three racing incidents (though I still really think Maldonado was more to blame then him) in the last two races and one shunt where he was at fault with Massa.

[Nem14]

Button doesn't seem to agree with you. In the press conference afterwards he said he had apologised to Hamilton.Jensen is a gentleman.

It is always the overtaking drivers responsibilty to make a safe pass.

IMO, Hamilton chose the wrong side to pass on, for 2 reasons:
1. the pit wall
2. the left/right corner combination that was approaching

Niki Lauda wasn't to impressed either. ; )

[Cooper_S]

Just as I said in the driver of the day thread as this is not a Poll our views are correct for us, so arguing over others choices is pointless.

For me today Vettle losing it on the last lap ranks high, but he still managed to extend his overall championship lead so I cannot give it to him

But Lewis on the other hand in atrocous conditions took too many chances in my view, he dropped 2 places in the standings and is now a full 3 race wins behind Vettel... He gets my vote today

[52Paddy]

For most of the drivers in this race, they were either candidates for the 'driver of the day' or 'donkey'. Middle ground only comprises of a few drivers. The donkey, for me, is Hamilton. It just has to be. As far as I'm concerned, his move on Webber was truly unfair and easily avoidable. The Schumacher incident was a pure display of "don't think you can just get through there, son". And, when it came to a head with his team mate, it was Hamilton who was in the better position with which to react and avoid a collision. I still consider that latter accident a racing incident but it doesn't negate the fact that Lewis' race ended thereafter and the move could have been better prepared.

Other notables for the donkey award would be Massa, Di Resta and Heidfeld (though all drove some superb laps too): Massa for getting stuck behind Kobayashi and then stuffing his nose in the wall while overtaking a Hispania ; Di Resta for ruining a very good result for himself and the team by making a ridiculously half-hearted move into the chicane ; Heidfeld for being too hot on the accelerator and also ruining a very good result (though much less so in his case as Kobay was much slower off the corner and it was doubly unfortunate that the front wing collapsed in the way it did).

[markabilly]

I vote for this guy, whom I have good reason to beleive is actually el donKey Jote in action:

YouTube - ‪F1 Canada 2011 Steward Falls Over - Marshal Montreal GP‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54y6K-QbGQ)

better watch it quick cause here come da FIA and benrie gonn take it down....

[Daniel]

Nope, it is you that is forgetting that he has pulled off nearly 30 succesful overtaking meneuvers in the last 6 races. He had three racing incidents (though I still really think Maldonado was more to blame then him) in the last two races and one shunt where he was at fault with Massa.

Hitler did a lot of good things too, doesn't make the bad things he did any less evil.

So what if Hamilton pulled off some good moves, the bonehead moves have seen him penalised or out of the race.

[Cooper_S]

Hitler did a lot of good things too, doesn't make the bad things he did any less evil.

So what if Hamilton pulled off some good moves, the bonehead moves have seen him penalised or out of the race.

Hitler and Hamilton in the same post.... really?

[The Black Knight]

Hitler did a lot of good things too, doesn't make the bad things he did any less evil.

So what if Hamilton pulled off some good moves, the bonehead moves have seen him penalised or out of the race.

Any drivers that have pulled off most moves in the past have generally been the more aggressive ones, always in front of the stewards or getting penalised on average more at least. These ultimately have been the best drivers too. McLaren, Button, Hamilton all agree it was a racing incident. You can try and sugarcoat it differently if you like but the stewards also agree. It's plainly obvious. Please look again. Button was checking his mirrors. They both moved left at the same time just after Button stopped looking in his mirrors, therefore he couldnt' have known Lewis was there. Lews then couldnt have known that Button was going to cut him off like that. Neither driver at fault, really. That's why it is a racing incident.

[Daniel]

Hitler and Hamilton in the same post.... really?

Both examples of people who did good and bad things. Not suggesting Hamilton is even .0000001% as bad as Hitler.

It's an analogy, get over it :)

[Daniel]

Any drivers that have pulled off most moves in the past have generally been the more aggressive ones, always in front of the stewards or getting penalised on average more at least. These ultimately have been the best drivers too. McLaren, Button, Hamilton all agree it was a racing incident. You can try and sugarcoat it differently if you like but the stewards also agree. It's plainly obvious. Please look again. Button was checking his mirrors. They both moved left at the same time just after Button stopped looking in his mirrors, therefore he couldnt' have known Lewis was there. Lews then couldnt have known that Button was going to cut him off like that. Neither driver at fault, really. That's why it is a racing incident.

So if you are driving along on the road and someone is fairly slowly pulling across do you keep on driving at them?

[The Black Knight]

Jensen is a gentleman.

It is always the overtaking drivers responsibilty to make a safe pass.

IMO, Hamilton chose the wrong side to pass on, for 2 reasons:
1. the pit wall
2. the left/right corner combination that was approaching

Niki Lauda wasn't to impressed either. ; )

Ah ok, so basically it's always the fault of the following car is what you're saying? WOW, this is new to me.

[Daniel]

Ah ok, so basically it's always the fault of the following car is what you're saying? WOW, this is new to me.

He's saying it's their responsibility to make a SAFE pass. It's not as if Button suddenly cut across so quickly that Hamilton couldn't back out....... What is it with Hamilton fans and being completely blinkered and unable to admit that he made a mistake.

[The Black Knight]

So if you are driving along on the road and someone is fairly slowly pulling across do you keep on driving at them?

Road rules don't always apply to F1. You can brake test someone on a road and if they drive into the back of you it's their fault because they should be far enough behind to be able to deal with any unexpected event. This is racing and if someone brake tests you then it is their fault because it is illegal to brake test someone in a race, so your analogy to something on the road doesn't hold true.

On the other hand I do see what you're trying to say and all well and good from your armchair but ultimately neither driver was in the know of what would happen in the future. Racing had nothing to do with road cars.

[Daniel]

Hamilton could see what was happening and kept steaming in

Hamilton = Noob driver

[52Paddy]

Hamilton actually admitted that he 'expected' Button to give him room. So Hamilton was wrong with his expectation and therefore is more to blame Button who simply continued on the ordinary racing line. It's not as if Hamilton threw half of his car up the side of Button at the point of contact either.

[The Black Knight]

Hamilton could see what was happening and kept steaming in

Hamilton = Noob driver

If Hamilton could see what was happening he would have backed out. Unfortunately, neither driver expected what did happen to happen. This is why it was a racing incident and I'm not going to say anymore on it because I could bang my head against a wall about it giving you a second by second account of what happened so your brain could comprehend and you still wouldn't get it, you'd just come back with a reply like the above as you did regularly in the thread about the Maldonado incident.

It was a racing incident as far as I'm concerned, you're welcome to your opinion :)

[steveaki13]

Well there was a time when people said it was always Senna too. In the end, with a racer like Lewis he'll pull off 20 maneuvers and maybe 2 won't come off. He'll bounce back in Valencia. No doubt.

But who will be bounce back off of. ;)

[markabilly]

So if you are driving along on the road and someone is fairly slowly pulling across do you keep on driving at them?



Good question, let us see what happenned below yep, the driver turned away, even though the marshall was on his knees, begging to get killed.

Wonder how may skid marks on tracks and underwear.......




I vote for this guy, whom I have good reason to beleive is actually el donKey Jote in action:

YouTube - ‪F1 Canada 2011 Steward Falls Over - Marshal Montreal GP‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54y6K-QbGQ)

better watch it quick cause here come da FIA and benrie gonn take it down....

[steveaki13]

Both examples of people who did good and bad things. Not suggesting Hamilton is even .0000001% as bad as Hitler.

I :)

But your saying Hamilton might be at least 0.00000001% as bad as Hitler? :eek:

[steveaki13]

My donkey is the marshall above and also on track Hamilton and Rosberg. (He seemed to have a poor race and came home missing a front nose)

[Rollo]

Ah ok, so basically it's always the fault of the following car is what you're saying? WOW, this is new to me.

It shouldn't be.
It is alwys the responsibility of following cars to anticipate what is going on in front of them. In almost every insurance claim, it is fault of the following car.

Lewis hadn't drawn up alongside the B-Pillar (in this case the roll hoop) and as such had never effected a pass. This accident is 100% Lewis' fault.

[wedge]

This accident is 100% Lewis' fault.

It's a tough one to lay 100% blame. Lewis made his move at the last moment possible whilst keeping momentum and makes the call just when you have to swing from side of the track to the other

[wedge]

Lewis Hamilton's Canadian Grand Prix tactics provoke Niki Lauda attack - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/8571739/Lewis-Hamiltons-Canadian-Grand-Prix-tactics-provoke-Niki-Lauda-attack.html)


Lauda called on the governing body to set an example. “What Hamilton did there goes beyond all boundaries,” the Austrian said during his commentary on the German station RTL. “He is completely mad. If the FIA does not punish him, I do not understand the world any more. At some point there has to be an end to all the jokes. You cannot drive like this — as it will result in someone getting killed.”

Hamilton did receive some support from an unlikely source, though, with Michael Schumacher jumping to his defence, claiming he would not have punished him for the incident with Massa in Monaco.

“[In] Monaco we know it is very difficult to pass and if somebody doesn’t want it, then it is very hard to avoid a collision,” Schumacher said. “I guess, in two of the four cases he passed people, two didn’t want it and two accepted it.

“It is a tough situation to be perfectly right. You will always find one or the other opinion on that — but put it this way: I would not have given him [a penalty] for Felipe at least.”

[TheFamousEccles]

I vote for this guy, whom I have good reason to beleive is actually el donKey Jote in action:

YouTube - ‪F1 Canada 2011 Steward Falls Over - Marshal Montreal GP‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f54y6K-QbGQ)

better watch it quick cause here come da FIA and benrie gonn take it down....


Jeebus McChrist! That guy should be banned from racetracks and marshalling world-wide!

Similar thing happened at Le Mans yesterday, though the marshal didn't fall over, there were still cars appearing from around a corner at racing speed to be confonted with a clown disguised as a marshal dancing in the middle of the racing line.

[CNR]

correction: except Schu :D

OK YOU ARE IN A RACE
OVER THE RADIO comes button has allready taken out two cars do you get out of his way ?

[Anubis]

My take on the Button / Hamilton incident - watching the head on shot, you see the car ahead of Button taking the diagonal line down the straight that others have mentioned. Lewis got his nose beside Button just as Button was making the same move. I really don't think it was a deliberate "Schumacher chop" style block, just unfortunate timing. The one thing I do wonder is whether Button is now using Lewis' growing victim mentality to his advantage, and is starting to get Hamilton a bit rattled? Button has his off days, but is usually still quite calm, whereas Hamilton does seem prone to letting his frustrations get the better of him. The more he convinces himself the whole World is against him, the more other drivers are going to play on that, and the more frustrated he's going to become.

[keysersoze]

It's rare that a driver gets the "driver of the race" as well as the "donkey":

Jenson for his involvement in the elimination of Hamilton and Alonso.

[Hawkmoon]

Hamilton actually admitted that he 'expected' Button to give him room. So Hamilton was wrong with his expectation and therefore is more to blame Button who simply continued on the ordinary racing line. It's not as if Hamilton threw half of his car up the side of Button at the point of contact either.

I think that goes straight to the point when it comes to Hamilton's driving at the moment. He seems to be of the mindset that people are just going to give him the room he needs to make a pass. He keeps putting his car in places that require the other driver to, if not exactly leap out of the way, then to leave the door open.

The two incidents in Canada were both racing incidents and I don't think a penalty is warranted. Having said that, when one driver keeps getting involved in racing incidents it's probably time to pull him aside and have a word. Hamilton isn't going to beat Vettel to the championship if he keeps getting tangled up with other cars.

[555-04Q2]

Hammy is fast gaining a reputation that better suits Sato, not him!

[Mia 01]

Lerwis again.

When will he learn?

[F1boat]

Lerwis again.

When will he learn?

FIA must encourage him to learn with grid penalty.

[Koz]

YouTube - ‪Hamilton Button crash Canadian GP 2011 - Canada formula 1 grand prix‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCakp0zK2rM)

It looks like Hamilton looks in the clear... Button does seem to move a great deal...

[52Paddy]

Too many incidents to call for a donkey IMO. I'm kind of lucky because I can tell a racing incident from a bonehead move. If Lewis is the clear favourite, what about Alonso, Webber, Di Resta etc etc... All had accidents where they were partially to blame, but its all too easy if one is more likeable than the other. :mark:

In my case, I've chosen Hamilton given his experience and the fact that it was his team-mate. Alonso's move was also donkey-material though not as easily avoidable once he put himself around the outside. Di Resta's attempt was shocking but you have to factor in that this is his first year and that, up to then, he had driven superbly.

[SGWilko]

Check out the head on-replay. Jenson checks his left mirror before moving left towards the wall on the normal racing line - checking that Lewis is not coming up the left. At that point Lewis is still in line behind Button. Jenson looks back ahead and Lewis then pulls out.

Which in my mind makes it a no fault racing incident.

[Daniel]

Which in my mind makes it a no fault racing incident.

So if a driver sees the door closing and keeps his foot in then it's not his fault? :confused: How that accident is anything less than 100% Lewis' fault I will never know.

[The Black Knight]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-document-46.pdf


Get over it.

Spot on. Racing incident, no more.

[ShiftingGears]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-document-46.pdf


Get over it.

:up:

[Daniel]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-document-46.pdf


Get over it.

OK so when it agrees with what you want then the stewards findings should be accepted as being the be all and end all, but when for instance the stewards penalise Lewis for something you feel is a racing incident then it's up for debate? :laugh:

[SGWilko]

So if a driver sees the door closing and keeps his foot in then it's not his fault? :confused: How that accident is anything less than 100% Lewis' fault I will never know.

See post 116 as to how that accident is anything less than 100% Lewis' fault. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

It seems some Lewis haters have made it their life's mission to engage in a Lewis hatefest time and again, regardless of what happens. It is a gigantic, monumental waste of time to try to argue with these individuals who obviously are incapable of being unbiased or see past their hatred for Lewis. Case in point the years of arguments between MS lovers and bashers on this forum, and the score is still 0-0. These 2 minutes are as much time and effort I'm gonna spend in this thread.

[The Black Knight]

OK so when it agrees with what you want then the stewards findings should be accepted as being the be all and end all, but when for instance the stewards penalise Lewis for something you feel is a racing incident then it's up for debate? :laugh:

You're well able to quote the stewards in your posts yourself.

[Hawkmoon]

It seems some Lewis haters have made it their life's mission to engage in a Lewis hatefest time and again, regardless of what happens. It is a gigantic, monumental waste of time to try to argue with these individuals who obviously are incapable of being unbiased or see past their hatred for Lewis. Case in point the years of arguments between MS lovers and bashers on this forum, and the score is still 0-0. These 2 minutes are as much time and effort I'm gonna spend in this thread.

Now you know what it was like to be a Schumacher fan for most of the last decade.

It was a racing incident but even in racing incidents blame can be apportioned. I think the real issue is why Hamilton is getting caught up in these incidents and whether or not he should, or will, do anything about it.

[Daniel]

See post 116 as to how that accident is anything less than 100% Lewis' fault. :)

That says nothing other than that it wasn't Button's fault. If this were in a braking zone I'd say racing incident but all Hamilton needed to do was lift.

[Daniel]

You're well able to quote the stewards in your posts yourself.

yes, yes I am.

[Daniel]

Now you know what it was like to be a Schumacher fan for most of the last decade.

It was a racing incident but even in racing incidents blame can be apportioned. I think the real issue is why Hamilton is getting caught up in these incidents and whether or not he should, or will, do anything about it.

Exactly. It was hardly the worst racing incident, but again it's the naughty boy of the class getting stuck in AGAIN!

[555-04Q2]

It seems some Lewis haters have made it their life's mission to engage in a Lewis hatefest time and again, regardless of what happens. It is a gigantic, monumental waste of time to try to argue with these individuals who obviously are incapable of being unbiased or see past their hatred for Lewis. Case in point the years of arguments between MS lovers and bashers on this forum, and the score is still 0-0. These 2 minutes are as much time and effort I'm gonna spend in this thread.

You shouldn't have wasted the 2 minutes effort either ;)

[Warriwa]

Watching both incidents from lewis' onboard camera, this is how I see it;
Lewis/Webber : Lewis' hands on the steering wheel stop turning left. Only when it is too late does he start turning again. Lewis' fault.
Lewis/Buton : Lewis' front wheels were past Button's rear wheels while Button continues to move left. Lewis actually tries to back out of it before
contact is made. Button had a lot of time to see where Lewis was. Buttons situational awareness was poor. Buttons fault.

[The Black Knight]

Watching both incidents from lewis' onboard camera, this is how I see it;
Lewis/Webber : Lewis' hands on the steering wheel stop turning left. Only when it is too late does he start turning again. Lewis' fault.
Lewis/Buton : Lewis' front wheels were past Button's rear wheels while Button continues to move left. Lewis actually tries to back out of it before
contact is made. Button had a lot of time to see where Lewis was. Buttons situational awareness was poor. Buttons fault.

I think you're wrong in both instances but fair play for looking at it and forming your own opinion at least ;)

[wedge]

So if a driver sees the door closing and keeps his foot in then it's not his fault? :confused: How that accident is anything less than 100% Lewis' fault I will never know.

As DC said in the commentary, Lewis was committed just as the gap narrowed so even if Lewis backed off contact would be more than likely.

[Anubis]

It's sad to see F1 fans becoming so polarised. It's possible to dislike a certain driver without being some sort of fanboy for another. I prefer Button over Hamilton, but that doesn't mean I'm on some sort of Hamilton witchunt, I just dislike his attitude and demeanour in recent seasons. Doesn't mean I actively want to see him fail. I cheered when Vettel made the mistake that let Button past, but that doesn't mean I hate Vettel, I just prefer Button. People seem to be getting ever more entrenched and tribal lately.

[Daniel]

As DC said in the commentary, Lewis was committed just as the gap narrowed so even if Lewis backed off contact would be more than likely.

But I think it was apparent that the door was closing before wheels were interlocked. If the door closed after I will take that back, but IIRC it was front wheel contacting rear wheel side to side....

[Daniel]

It's sad to see F1 fans becoming so polarised. It's possible to dislike a certain driver without being some sort of fanboy for another. I prefer Button over Hamilton, but that doesn't mean I'm on some sort of Hamilton witchunt, I just dislike his attitude and demeanour in recent seasons. Doesn't mean I actively want to see him fail. I cheered when Vettel made the mistake that let Button past, but that doesn't mean I hate Vettel, I just prefer Button. People seem to be getting ever more entrenched and tribal lately.

Agree 100%. You can't criticise a driver without being a hater..... People seem to forget the times where I've praised Hamilton or even stood up for him.

[Nem14]

Ah ok, so basically it's always the fault of the following car is what you're saying? WOW, this is new to me.No, I didn't say that. But, the following car is the only one that has good sight lines, not the car being passed. That is why a safe pass is the overtaking cars responsibility.

If you have ever driven an open wheeled car in a race, you will know a driver can't see very much in those side mirrors and also has to maintain some attention forward at racing speeds. Add the fact the track was wet, and spray from the wheels adds to the issue.

However, note the point of contact between the two cars, Hamilton's right front wheel against Button's left rear wheel.

On that basis, Hamilton clearly suffered from brain fade, once again making a costly mistake. As I said, IMO Hamilton attempted the pass on the wrong side of Jensen.


After several run-ins with the stewards this year, the McLaren driver was involved in more incidents in Montreal, including one that moved his teammate Jenson Button to exclaim on the radio: "What is he doing?"

[Mia 01]

You are welcome henner.

Jenson drove a brilliant race and deserved the victory, but so did Seb. One tiny mistake after how many SC periods, one of Sebs better races.

[steveaki13]

You are welcome henner.

Jenson drove a brilliant race and deserved the victory, but so did Seb. One tiny mistake after how many SC periods, one of Sebs better races.

Yes I mean apart from the one error. Seb raced brilliantly, on each restart held the lead and stretched a 3 or 4 second gap in the first couple of laps after each SC.

Just generally looked in command until that last lap.

[schmenke]

Charlie Whiting

[steveaki13]

Charlie Whiting

;) :D

[555-04Q2]

Charlie Whiting

:up:

Too many old men ruining F1 at the moment :( Have they not heard of sell by dates in F1 :p :

[airshifter]

http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_...ocument-46.pdf (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-document-46.pdf)


The Stewards have reviewed the Incident involving Car 3 (L. Hamilton) and Car 4 (J. Button) on their 7th
lap of the race. The Stewards reviewed the lines of several cars, including the two cars involved, using
multiple angles of video evidence over several laps, the speed traces of both drivers, the GPS tracking
data from the cars and have heard the drivers and team representatives.
The Stewards concluded that:
1) Exiting Turn 13 there was a legitimate overtaking opportunity for Lewis Hamilton as his speed was
greater than Jensen Button's.
2) Both drivers took lines substantially similar to many of the other drivers, and did not move as far to
the left as the preceding driver, Michael Schumacher (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showwiki.php?title=Michael+Schumacher). At the moment after Hamilton moved to the left to
pass, Button looked into his mirror. It appears from the position of Hamilton at that moment [and is
confirmed by the drivers] that Button was unlikely to have seen Hamilton.
3) At the point of contact Button had not yet moved as far to the left of the track as he had on the
previous lap, or that Schumacher had on that lap.
The Stewards have concluded that it was reasonable for Hamilton to believe that Button would have
seen him and that he could have made the passing manoeuvre. Further, the Stewards have concluded
that it is reasonable to believe that Button was not aware of Hamilton’s position to his left.
Therefore, the Stewards decide that this was a “racing incident” and have taken no further action.



Get over it.

Get over it? NOOOOOOOOOoooooo! I wanna hate someone for a racing incident, and I want everyone else to hate them too!


At first I thought the move was aggressive by Button. At the end of coverage they showed a head on view and I thought even more Buttons fault. So I watched a number of laps and the lines everyone used, and I completely agree with the above. I personally think Button knew Lewis would make a move, as Button lost way too much speed and Lewis was right on him at corner exit. But when Button looked, there was nothing yet to see.

As for Lewis' part, I think he was 100% confident that Button knew he was there, so he comitted to the move and it was too late when Jenson kept coming over. Lewis had tires in the grass already.


As for the others:

Lewis/Webber - racing incident

Jenson/Alonso - racing incident with fault leaning more towards Alonso IMO. Jenson made a bold move but Fernando turned in where Jenson had no place to go, even if he could turn in at that point.



Now you haters.... just keep on hating! :)




I can't call a stand out donkey for the race. With conditions what they were, it took some rather large attachments to race in that mess. Conditions like that are crazy in much lesser powered cars at much lower speeds.

[keysersoze]

Jenson/Alonso - racing incident with fault leaning more towards Alonso IMO. Jenson made a bold move but Fernando turned in where Jenson had no place to go, even if he could turn in at that point.

But about a million posters on this thread alone swear up and down that it is the driver who is attempting the pass who shoulders the blame for contact. If so, then it's clearly Button's fault.

[airshifter]

But about a million posters on this thread alone swear up and down that it is the driver who is attempting the pass who shoulders the blame for contact. If so, then it's clearly Button's fault.

I personally agree with that.

But the flaw in your statement is that you are not applying "hater" logic and bias as such. By doing so you could say Hamilton/Button was all Hamiltons fault, yet say Button/Alonso was all Alonso's fault. Easy.

[The Black Knight]

But about a million posters on this thread alone swear up and down that it is the driver who is attempting the pass who shoulders the blame for contact. If so, then it's clearly Button's fault.

Yeah, those posts are funny really, and I can't be bothered arguing with someone that believes the driver that is attempting to pass is always to blame for contact and that tis up to them to make sure the other driver knows they are there. It's a ridiculous statement because it's up to the other drivers team to inform him of a potential overtake and also to check out his mirrors.

[Mia 01]

Well, ther´s another race coming up soon, perhaps we get further confirmation of certain track behavior!

[Daniel]

I personally agree with that.

But the flaw in your statement is that you are not applying "hater" logic and bias as such. By doing so you could say Hamilton/Button was all Hamiltons fault, yet say Button/Alonso was all Alonso's fault. Easy.

Personally I think the Button Hamilton thing is 70:30 with Hamilton being mainly at fault and the Button Alsono one is 60:40, not sure who gets the 60 though.

[SGWilko]

the Button Alsono one is 60:40, not sure who gets the 60 though.

So, you think someone is more at fault than the other, but just not sure which? It's not that you are indecisive, just that you are not too sure..... ;)

[Zico]

the Button Alsono one is 60:40, not sure who gets the 60 though.

If you are not sure who is most at fault how can it be a 60:40? Why does every single incident have to have a bad guy? Theres too much of the blame game going on in this forum, It's just a racing incident for me...

[555-04Q2]

If you are not sure who is most at fault how can it be a 60:40? Why does every single incident have to have a bad guy? Theres too much of the blame game going on in this forum, It's just a racing incident for me...

The accident was your fault.

[SGWilko]

The accident was your fault.

....but only 40%, or was it 60%....? :p

[555-04Q2]

....but only 40%, or was it 60%....? :p

Not sure about the percentage. Only that it was definetely more his fault :p :

[SGWilko]

Not sure about the percentage. Only that it was definetely more his fault :p :

Where there's blame there's a claim - may I point you towards Accidentlawyersandbloodsuckingleeches4you.com?