The man died a truly free man

[Bob Riebe]

He lived the American dream, although it got him killed in the end, but one has to admire him for free spirit regardless of his faults.

Family looked 30 years for man found dead in woods (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/06/08/national/a003300D27.DTL)

[Eki]

The American dream is to die frozen and starving in a pickup truck? Well, each to their own, I'd say.

[Bob Riebe]

The American dream is to die frozen and starving in a pickup truck? Well, each to their own, I'd say.
Do you know the difference between- lived and died?

Even though you are a Finlander, you are fluent with English and should know the difference.

Is the Finnish dream to live as his brother is now living?

[Daniel]

So, someone in China couldn't go out and do this?

[Bob Riebe]

So, someone in China couldn't go out and do this?
For a Chinaman to have five thousand dollars in his pocket, and wander the land in his own truck, would be unusual.

[airshifter]

I can't quite fit a person being a transient who walked out on his family and starved/froze to death as being what most people imagine when they hear "American Dream".

[Eki]

I can get Bob's point about freedom. Already Janis Joplin sang that freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. But IMO many Americans overemphasize freedom, thinking it's some sort of ultimate goal or dream. Freedom is absolutely a good thing in proper dosages, but too much of it can be bad. Too much of anything can be bad.

[Mark]

For a Chinaman to have five thousand dollars in his pocket, and wander the land in his own truck, would be unusual.

You're right, it would be 32,000 Yuan

[555-04Q2]

:laugh: Classic Mark :up:

[MrJan]

The American Dream is to live like a bear? I thought it was all white picket fences, family and high paying jobs

[Mark]

I thought it was the ability to do whatever the hell you like, as long as it's approved of by the Church.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I can get Bob's point about freedom. Already Janis Joplin sang that freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. But IMO many Americans overemphasize freedom, thinking it's some sort of ultimate goal or dream. Freedom is absolutely a good thing in proper dosages, but too much of it can be bad. Too much of anything can be bad.

Freedom is a means of achieving your ends. Whether you have too much or too little depends on how much you need to get to the point where you want to be. Just like this man:
Christopher McCandless - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless)

Or the one this thread is about.

[ShiftingGears]

Some people just don't want to be found.

[555-04Q2]

No one is really free in any country. Try pi$$ing on a cops car tyre and find out how un-free you really are.

[Mark]

You can go and live in the woods away from everyone in every decent sized country, China included.
It's not so easy in the UK as we're a small island and there's nowhere that's really isolated in the same sense as you'd find in North America.

[schmenke]

You can live in the woods in Canada until the bears eat you, unless the mosquitoes find them first :s .

I’ll stay comfy in my man-cave with my 50” plasma, even though the wife and kids do find me there :p : .

[555-04Q2]

You can live in the woods in Canada until the bears eat you, unless the mosquitoes find them first :s .

I’ll stay comfy in my man-cave with my 50” plasma, even though the wife and kids do find me there :p : .

It's called a door. It has a lock, that needs a key. The wife and kids dissapear. See.....I know magic :p :

[schmenke]

Sadly the man-cave in the schmenke-shack is not equipped with such magic. This does however have it’s benefits as I can shout to one of the kids to fetch me another beer, which they happily oblige :) . The missus, on the other hand, usually just tells me to sod off :mad: :p : .

[555-04Q2]

The missus, on the other hand, usually just tells me to sod off :mad: :p : .

:laugh: Sounds just like my life man :laugh:

[gloomyDAY]

lol @ "man"

What kind of a man walks out on his kids to die old and haggard in a beat up truck?

[Bob Riebe]

A free man who likes guns, flannel shirts and pick up trucks.GP!P 58 – Why did Jerry McDonald die? » The Got Prep! Podcast (http://www.gotprep.com/podcasts/gpp-58-why-did-jerry-mcdonald-die/1591/)

Likes?
Guns?

[AAReagles]

... Already Janis Joplin sang that freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. But IMO many Americans overemphasize freedom, thinking it's some sort of ultimate goal or dream. Freedom is absolutely a good thing in proper dosages, but too much of it can be bad. Too much of anything can be bad.

:up: Surprised to see someone else that's not an American remember Janis Joplin.

Part of the problem of freedom over here, other than what you mentioned, is that it's used as a propaganda tool - if not a marketing tool - too often.

[Rudy Tamasz]

A free man who likes guns, flannel shirts and pick up trucks.

I'm not tolerating jokes about flanel shirts!!!

;)

[Bob Riebe]

:up: Surprised to see someone else that's not an American remember Janis Joplin.

Part of the problem of freedom over here, other than what you mentioned, is that it's used as a propaganda tool - if not a marketing tool - too often.
It is not as much that it is used as a tool, but that it can be.
What is supposed to be the norm, is becoming the exception.

[Daniel]

It is not as much that it is used as a tool, but that it can be.
What is supposed to be the norm, is becoming the exception.

So everyone should run out on their family and live a solitary life?

[gloomyDAY]

So everyone should run out on their family and live a solitary life?Yes! We should all turn into cowards when we can no longer face the music. :p

[Bob Riebe]

So everyone should run out on their family and live a solitary life?What are you prattling on about?
Your disjointed rhetoric has what to do with the post you pasted?

[Bob Riebe]

Yes! We should all turn into cowards when we can no longer face the music. :p
That would make one a good Democrat, as shown by John Edwards.

[Bob Riebe]

So anymore thoughts on the guy missing for 30 years found in a 1997 GMC pickup truck? I touched on it earlier and was expecting to be corrected with the appropiate facts. :eek:
The only thing I can gather from articles about him is his leaving was not a sudden unexpected item, they sent mail to him that was unanswered, but as he had five thousand dollars in his pocket, he was not just a wandering bum.

[Jag_Warrior]

That would make one a good Democrat, as shown by John Edwards.

So when the Republican governor of South Carolina, Mark Sanford, "went for a walk on the Appalachian Trail" a couple of years ago, got lost ( ;) ) and wound up in Argentina (and found a busty Latina paramour), he instantly became a Democrat, huh? :D

I know to those whose existence seems based on political partisanship, facts tend to get in the way, but irresponsible behavior knows no party, gender, race or religion.

If to be free, you have to take a crap on those who you should be responsible for and to, IMO, you may be "free"... but you're also a coward. It takes MAN to own up to his responsibilities.

[Bob Riebe]

lol @ "man"

What kind of a man walks out on his kids to die old and haggard in a beat up truck?A schizophrenic, he had to quit working , working, though it does not say when, due to schizophrenia.
I would imagine this is why he was estranged from his family.
He still had a quarter tank of gas in his truck, and plenty warm clothes, so while I do not think he committed suicide, something went awfully wrong.

[anthonyvop]

I can get Bob's point about freedom. Already Janis Joplin sang that freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose. But IMO many Americans overemphasize freedom, thinking it's some sort of ultimate goal or dream. Freedom is absolutely a good thing in proper dosages, but too much of it can be bad. Too much of anything can be bad.

Statements like that remind me why a strong military is the #1 priority of the US government.

There is nothing, nothing more important than freedom. Food, Water, Air...all necessary to keep a body alive but without freedom just a waste of resources.

[yodasarmpit]

American dream? No. Tragic? Yes.

[Eki]

Statements like that remind me why a strong military is the #1 priority of the US government.

There is nothing, nothing more important than freedom. Food, Water, Air...all necessary to keep a body alive but without freedom just a waste of resources.
Strong military is also the #1 priority of the North Korean government.

BTW, I've never been to a place with less freedom than the military. You didn't even have the right to decide what clothes you wear.

[anthonyvop]

Strong military is also the #1 priority of the North Korean government.

BTW, I've never been to a place with less freedom than the military. You didn't even have the right to decide what clothes you wear.


Are you really that silly?

[MrJan]

So in America you have freedom?

[555-04Q2]

There is no freedom anywhere.

[555-04Q2]

Definitions of "freedom"

1.The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint

2.Absence of subjection to foreign domination or despotic government

3.The state of not being imprisoned or enslaved

4.The state of being physically unrestricted and able to move easily

5.The state of not being subject to or affected by (a particular undesirable thing)

6.The power of self-determination attributed to the will; the quality of being independent of fate or necessity

7.Unrestricted use of something

8.Familiarity or openness in speech or behavior

[555-04Q2]

Definitions of "free"

1.Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes

2.(of a state or its citizens or institutions) Subject neither to foreign domination nor to despotic government

3.Not or no longer confined or imprisoned

4.Not a slave

5.Able or permitted to take a specified action

6.Denoting an ethnic or political group actively opposing an occupying or invading force, in particular the groups that continued resisting the Germans in World War II after the fall of their countries


7.Not physically restrained, obstructed, or fixed; unimpeded

8.(of power or energy) Disengaged or available


9.Not bound in an atom, a molecule, or a compound

10.(of a morpheme) Able to occur in isolation

11.(of syntax) Not constrained by word order

12.Not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations

13.(of a facility or piece of equipment) Not occupied or in use

14.Not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)

15.Given or available without charge

16.Using or expending something without restraint; lavish

17.Frank or unrestrained in speech, expression, or action

18.Overfamiliar or forward in manner

19.(of a literary style) Not observing the strict laws of form

[anthonyvop]

So in America you have freedom?

More than in most countries around the world including Europe

[schmenke]

I thought that was TIRE? :p :

[555-04Q2]

More than in most countries around the world including Europe

Europe is a country now :eek:

[anthonyvop]

Europe is a country now :eek:

Pretty much so now with the European Union.

[airshifter]

Strong military is also the #1 priority of the North Korean government.

BTW, I've never been to a place with less freedom than the military. You didn't even have the right to decide what clothes you wear.

In the US we are free to make that choice or not. Many still do, as they see personal sacrifice worthy of a greater freedom.

[Eki]

In the US we are free to make that choice or not. Many still do, as they see personal sacrifice worthy of a greater freedom.
They give up their freedom voluntarily. Sounds kind of ironic. Even anthonyvop must admit that military organizations (or any other organization) couldn't function efficiently without restricting freedom (that's called discipline). That proves my point that too much freedom can be a bad thing.

[Rollo]

It's not so easy in the UK as we're a small island and there's nowhere that's really isolated in the same sense as you'd find in North America.

I have it on good authority (though unconfirmed) that Tring in Hertfordshire is the town furthest away from the ocean; and that you're never more than 72 miles away from the sea.

I would suspect that in Britain the furthest that you could be away from any other person is probably no more than about 40 miles at the most.

[anthonyvop]

They give up their freedom voluntarily. Sounds kind of ironic. Even anthonyvop must admit that military organizations (or any other organization) couldn't function efficiently without restricting freedom (that's called discipline). That proves my point that too much freedom can be a bad thing.

When I said I am glad we have a strong military I meant it is needed to protect my country from fascists like you and your ilk.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

When I said I am glad we have a strong military I meant it is needed to protect my country from fascists like you and your ilk.

Please, without being confrontational, respect Eki's point. Whilst you don't have to agree that 'too much freedom is bad thing, surely you must accept Eki's point that organisations wouldn't function efficiently without retricting freedom (discipline). My boss won't allow us to grow a beard FFS! This doesn't make someone a facist though!

[Bob Riebe]

Please, without being confrontational, respect Eki's point. Whilst you don't have to agree that 'too much freedom is bad thing, surely you must accept Eki's point that organisations wouldn't function efficiently without retricting freedom (discipline). My boss won't allow us to grow a beard FFS! This doesn't make someone a facist though!Freedom and a lack of structure, which is what Eki is really speaking of, are not the same thing.

If I had to choose between socialism or chaos, I would choose chaos, anything in chaos cannot stand; therefore from it comes order.
Whereas a community trapped in socialism can be controlled, and remain controlled for decades or centuries.
The best way to destroy those who control the socialist society is to create chaos.

The military is a controlled society but when one's time of commitment is over, one is free to leave, and find other endeavors.

[Rollo]

If I had to choose between socialism or chaos, I would choose chaos, anything in chaos cannot stand; therefore from it comes order.
Whereas a community trapped in socialism can be controlled, and remain controlled for decades or centuries.
The best way to destroy those who control the socialist society is to create chaos.

That's a false dichotomy surely.

I don't know if you're suggesting Spontaneous Order or Anarchism as a useful way of organising things. I don't know if either of those provide anything beneficial to society.

[Eki]

If I had to choose between socialism or chaos, I would choose chaos, anything in chaos cannot stand; therefore from it comes order.

Maybe you should visit Somalia. Chaos has stood there already for 20 years.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Maybe you should visit Somalia. Chaos has stood there already for 20 years.

Or Belgium! :p

[Rollo]

Maybe you should visit Somalia. Chaos has stood there already for 20 years.

There's one sure fire method of dealing with that:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/DonAdams.jpg

One needs proper CONTROL.

[BDunnell]

What a great thread. Keep it up, Bob and anthonyvop!

[Mark]

Maybe you should visit Somalia. Chaos has stood there already for 20 years.

Only in Russia is there true chaos!

*I feel old now.

[schmenke]

To avoid anarchy discipline is required, typically defined through legislature (laws), which will restrict freedoms. But, as has been suggested, discipline can be bypassed with unrestricted freedom, chaos ensuing, from which order will be restored. I don’t know… perhaps, but I for one would choose the former.

[Bob Riebe]

Maybe you should visit Somalia. Chaos has stood there already for 20 years.There is strict order in Somalia, only one has to choose which War Lord.

[anthonyvop]

Please, without being confrontational, respect Eki's point. Whilst you don't have to agree that 'too much freedom is bad thing, surely you must accept Eki's point that organisations wouldn't function efficiently without retricting freedom (discipline). My boss won't allow us to grow a beard FFS! This doesn't make someone a facist though!

You have no idea what freedom is.

As a boss I have the freedom to hire whomever I like and apply my rules. You have the freedom to either accept my rules and work for me or reject them and seek employment elsewhere,

That is freedom.

[BDunnell]

You have no idea what freedom is.

As a boss I have the freedom to hire whomever I like and apply my rules. You have the freedom to either accept my rules and work for me or reject them and seek employment elsewhere

And in what sense does this differentiate you from any other private employer in the world? (Except, I grant you, for the fact that no private employer for whom I have worked has ever, to the best of my knowledge, travelled abroad in possession of a firearm the holding of which is illegal in those countries, or, if this incident did not really take place, lied about having done so.)

[anthonyvop]

And in what sense does this differentiate you from any other private employer in the world?

Those who are forced to accept employees who are members or make payments to Unions.

[Rollo]

Those who are forced to accept employees who are members or make payments to Unions.

Compulsory Unionism or rather the inverse of this being Freedom of Association was part of a series of EEC treaties which were ratified well before the Maastricht Treaty which created the EU in 1993.
It's spelled out explicitly in Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights and the 1998 Declaration on Fundamental Principles and Rights at Work of the ILO.
If you are in an environment which has Involuntary or Compulsory Unionism then that proves that you have less freedom than Europe.

If not then Mr Dunnell's question is perfectly valid:

And in what sense does this differentiate you from any other private employer in the world? (Except, I grant you, for the fact that no private employer for whom I have worked has ever, to the best of my knowledge, travelled abroad in possession of a firearm the holding of which is illegal in those countries, or, if this incident did not really take place, lied about having done so.)

Mr Vop's whole line of argument is therefore invalid and irrelevant.

[Bob Riebe]

This is getting a bit silly.
The man the thread is about, whether he was a schitzo, or not, still had the FREEDOM to go about his business, as he chose, which he did very well. Had he again gained employment, he would abide by their rules, but still was free to quit as he so chose.
Joining a military, is submitting to authority, to maintain freedom, for fellow citizens, from foreign concerns.
I believe, even in the most dictatorial countries, one still only serves x time and then is free to choose what ever options are available in a society ruled by draconian measures.
To say business concerns, military, or any organization one voluntarily joins represent not having freedom is just plain silly.

[Eki]

Those who are forced to accept employees who are members or make payments to Unions.
So, you don't think the employees should be free to join a trade union?

[BDunnell]

This is getting a bit silly.
The man the thread is about, whether he was a schitzo, or not, still had the FREEDOM to go about his business, as he chose, which he did very well. Had he again gained employment, he would abide by their rules, but still was free to quit as he so chose.

I fail to see what is in any sense notable about this.

[Bob Riebe]

I fail to see what is in any sense notable about this.
It is notable in that the man (the few articles on the net seem to imply he did not suddenly run out on his family[he prepared his children for life] nor did they have ill feelings) lived the type of life often waxed sentimental about in film and literature.

He bothered no one, survived without welfare, did not spend foolishly what income he had coming in, and did as he pleased when he pleased.
His last writings before he died blamed no one for anything.

I find this man's life, and death far more noble than cowards who commit suicide, but then are either, or both, glorified and showered with pity by Hollywood and the press.

A truly free man.

[AAReagles]

...

He bothered no one, survived without welfare, did not spend foolishly what income he had coming in, and did as he pleased when he pleased.
His last writings before he died blamed no one for anything.

I find this man's life, and death far more noble than cowards who commit suicide, but then are either, or both, glorified and showered with pity by Hollywood and the press.

A truly free man.

Well... okay. After reading some of the various interpretations by members on the forum, I see your point.

It does make in a sense that he was a 'free' man - though I must agree with what others already stated that he neglected the obligations to his family.

Nevertheless, I suppose you're right he was free, since he cut loose on a lot of things.

I must say however, I don't believe he was as perhaps as 'free' - so to speak - as the Viet Nam vets who returned home from the horrors of war, only to find uneducated, liberal-minded assault units of media and public elements awaiting those vets to succumb to a barrage of criticism... which sadly resulted with some of them living off the land in the woods of the pacific northwest. With minimal reliance on society whatsoever.

Perhaps they were the last of the truly free on this continent, in the modern age.