The worst examples of Choking in Motorsports. [Archive]

BDunnell

7th June 2011, 19:29

A rather obscure one, perhaps, but I can think of no finer example than this ending to a British Touring Car race in 1990. It was a two-driver affair, which saw Robb Gravett in his Sierra Cosworth building up a huge lead over Andy Rouse's car, before they handed over to Stig Blomqvist and David Sears respectively. The lead gradually diminished, and diminished, and diminished...

YouTube - ‪BTCC 1990 Round 2 Pt 3‬&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGVjWDEMb1Y)

Mark

7th June 2011, 19:31

Perhaps the most famous example is Senna crashing out of the Monaco Grand Prix despite having a substantial lead.

Bob Riebe

7th June 2011, 20:06

Perhaps the most famous example is Senna crashing out of the Monaco Grand Prix despite having a substantial lead.
I would add Black Jack Brabham at Monaco in 1970.

Rollo

7th June 2011, 23:41

Nigel Mansell 1984 also at Monaco.

In his autobiography he mentions that whilst he was leading his first GP, he was probably too excited and pushed to hard after the news that Prost had gained 1.5s on the previous lap. He states that he ran over a white line a the tail stepped out.

Mark

8th June 2011, 08:02

Also Nigel Mansell in Canada who when celebrating his win before the end of the race managed to hit the kill switch.

D-Type

8th June 2011, 09:50

Before we go much further let's define "choking". Is it simply making an unforced error like Senna and Brabham at Monaco; or is it failing to deliver the expected performance over a whole race, or end of season.

Bruce D

8th June 2011, 11:35

I would say a good one would be Carlos Reutemann at Las Vegas 1981 where he was on pole and then just faded in the race and loses the championship to Piquet.

MrJan

8th June 2011, 11:37

Lewis Hamilton 2007

D-Type

8th June 2011, 16:01

I would say a good one would be Carlos Reutemann at Las Vegas 1981 where he was on pole and then just faded in the race and loses the championship to Piquet.

Apparently it wasn't Reutemann at fault. The car developed a handling problem that even Reutemann couldn't drive around. But Reutemann was not prepared to publicly blame the car.

anthonyvop

8th June 2011, 18:40

Apparently it wasn't Reutemann at fault. The car developed a handling problem that even Reutemann couldn't drive around. But Reutemann was not prepared to publicly blame the car.

That was rumor. Neither Reutimann nor anyone from Williams have ever come forward to back that claim. Considering how Reutimann left Williams not that long after I would have thought he would have gladly put the blame on the car but he refuses to blame it to this day.

D-Type

8th June 2011, 19:35

That was rumor. Neither Reutimann nor anyone from Williams have ever come forward to back that claim. Considering how Reutimann left Williams not that long after I would have thought he would have gladly put the blame on the car but he refuses to blame it to this day.
And don't forget he also lost 4th gear. One reason for the handling problem I have see cited is a poor set of tyres - apparently 30 years ago they weren't as consistent as they are now.

Garry Walker

8th June 2011, 21:55

Perhaps the most famous example is Senna crashing out of the Monaco Grand Prix despite having a substantial lead.

Which was due to slow puncture, as has been confirmed by McLaren mechanics long time ago.

Bruce D

9th June 2011, 06:29

Which was due to slow puncture, as has been confirmed by McLaren mechanics long time ago.

I've never heard that theory before, even in books as recent as "Senna vs Prost" it's made out that Senna lost concentration and made a mistake.

Mark

9th June 2011, 08:41

Even in the Senna film they said that the reason he crashed was that he'd started to relax and lose concentration.

Ranger

9th June 2011, 12:19

I've never heard that theory before, even in books as recent as "Senna vs Prost" it's made out that Senna lost concentration and made a mistake.

Former McLaren engineer/mechanic Neil Trundle said that it was a slow puncture in a 2006 (?) edition of F1 Racing magazine. I don't think I have a copy of it anymore, but it was only a very small excerpt.

wedge

9th June 2011, 15:03

Even in the Senna film they said that the reason he crashed was that he'd started to relax and lose concentration.

It was because Prost took a chunk out of Senna's lead and Senna decides to go faster.

Same in Italy 1988 and Brazil 1990. In the former the Prost plays games with Senna and Ferrari too catch Senna so Senna thinks he can make the difference in the chicanes and backmarkers; in the latter Senna again is in a comfortable lead till Prost takes eats into it and Senna makes a silly banzai move on the lapped car of Nakajima.

That was rumor. Neither Reutimann nor anyone from Williams have ever come forward to back that claim. Considering how Reutimann left Williams not that long after I would have thought he would have gladly put the blame on the car but he refuses to blame it to this day.

About a decade ago on Autosport.com's Ask Nigel Roebuck feature and in an anthology of quotes which I have at home, Peter Windsor - at the time Williams team manager or some such was quoted that the car was never right on race day and completely lost confidence.

Reutimann was a driver who need confidence and Williams has gone on to say that the regretted not giving him the emotional support that year though Head probably still thinks Carlos need to pull his thumb out his backside.

555-04Q2

10th June 2011, 06:36

Lewis Hamilton in 2007. Rookie status aside, what a choke!

wedge

12th June 2011, 14:18

Just remembered Scott Goodyear's premature ejaculation:

6XZxGvH6Asw

Mark

12th June 2011, 22:07

Vettel 2011 Canadian GP

Garry Walker

12th June 2011, 22:18

I've never heard that theory before, even in books as recent as "Senna vs Prost" it's made out that Senna lost concentration and made a mistake.

Even in the Senna film they said that the reason he crashed was that he'd started to relax and lose concentration.

You were both answered by this post.

Former McLaren engineer/mechanic Neil Trundle said that it was a slow puncture in a 2006 (?) edition of F1 Racing magazine. I don't think I have a copy of it anymore, but it was only a very small excerpt.
I remember it as autosport, but memory can sometimes fail.

intheway

7th July 2011, 23:29

Not choking as such, but suffocating / passing out... Mansell, Dallas 1984 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYyq4lTvJNE

Mark in Oshawa

14th July 2011, 18:53

I am thinking in a race as big as the Indy 500, Scott Goodyear in 95 is one of the best chokes I have ever seen. Everyone remembers Villeneuve being penalized 2 laps and making them up through yellows and strategy and sheer speed, but he would have been second if Scott Goodyear didn't have a brain cramp......

Marbles

16th July 2011, 23:47

My two chokes, and I feel these fully qualify, happen before the green flag drops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0rql8hL9ag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEOjxzrR10

Roberto Guerrero 1992 and David Coulthard 1995 spin off on the parade lap.

D-Type

17th July 2011, 00:09

I'm still not certain exactly what a "choke" means. Does Stirling Moss missing a gear and over-revving his Vanwall at Spa in 1958 count? I always feel that incident cost him the Championship rather than the happenings in Portugal.

Marbles

19th July 2011, 01:19

Aarrgh! Forgot about this one. I think I tore the arms of my LaZyboy when this happened. At the 7:20 mark Tracy throws away a two lap lead... yup, TWO LAPS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kosN9Fi9lug

00steven

19th July 2011, 01:52

rjbetty

19th July 2011, 16:53

Giancarlo Fisichella, Japan 2005... (sigh) :(

vhatever

22nd July 2011, 18:26

Vettel 2011 Canadian GP

Are you being sarcastic or are you trolling your own forum?

Mark

22nd July 2011, 18:58

Why? He was about to win the race and all he had to do was keep it on the track, but Button pushed him into a mistake, he choked.

52Paddy

26th July 2011, 12:33

Sebastien Ogier earlier in the year (Mexico?) when he ran into a ditch on the final stage.

Mintexmemory

3rd August 2011, 08:31

I think I would be charitable to Brabham at Monaco 70, in that someone like Rindt homing in might be said to have forced the error. The unforced error that year was not putting enough juice in the tank at Brands being passed on the last lap again.

Ranger

3rd August 2011, 09:02

You were both answered by this post.

I remember it as autosport, but memory can sometimes fail.

Found this exerpt from the ITV-F1 website.

Senna not to blame for Monaco '88
Sunday, 21, May, 2006, 16:00

McLaren chief mechanic Neil Trundle has shed new light on one of the most notorious upsets in Formula 1 history.

In an interview in this month's F1 Racing magazine (on sale next week), Trundle revealed that Ayrton Senna's famous crash in the 1988 Monaco Grand Prix was probably the result of a slow puncture rather than a driver error.

Senna had absolutely dominated the Monaco weekend and was heading for a certain victory when he understeered into the Portier barrier with just 11 laps remaining.

The legendary Brazilian was distraught afterwards, but Trundle reckons he was not actually to blame.

"We still suspect he had a slow puncture in one of the rear tyres," Trundle revealed.

"The car was sliding around, but he stuck with it rather than changing the tyre."

The Monaco accident has been cited as a turning point in Senna's career, and Trundle agrees that it had a profound effect on the thoughtful Brazilian.

"The accident changed him," said Trundle.

"It made him even deeper and more committed."

So like Newey's recent perspective of Imola '94, they don't know exactly what happened but have strong reason to suspect what 'probably' happened. They know more than us anyway.

journeyman racer

22nd November 2013, 15:34

Webber slamming the title to smithereens at Korea in 10. He may've still had a great chance to win it afterwards, but he lost his mojo after that crash. The best example was putting in his worst qualifying performance in the title showdown at Abu Dhabi. The season opened up for him to win, Vettel crashing often and suffering problems, Alonso was sloppy in the first half and in Spa, Hamilton threatening then taking himself out of contention, driving a far superior car, no reliability problems, it was all there for him. It was like John Terry slipping up just before the penalty kick in the CL final!

Special mention to Helio Castroneves not winning this year's Indycar title, when he was leading late. I don't follow the season closely, but I was aware of his strong position. C'mon man! You've been driving for Penske for 14 years now, and you've never won a title! They don't vote for you to win a title like DWTS! Just poor.

Tazio

17th December 2013, 17:20

Lewis Hamilton in 2007. Rookie status aside, what a choke!As great of a season that "The Boss" had in 2007 the culmination of the season, considering the last two events; beaching himself in the world’s smallest gravel trap in China in combination with the poor race to 7th at Interlagos is an impressive choke when considering all sporting championships, not just auto sport. I know that a lot of people don't like that expression “choke”, and I've become quite fond of The Boss, but those two events in succession are hard to beat when considering how thoroughly he threw that championship away.

Doc Austin

26th December 2013, 04:43

Brabham at Monoco might be the choke with the shortest distance to the finish, but it's hard to beat JR Hildebrand crashing in turn four of lap 200 at Indianapolis.

D28

26th December 2013, 16:47

From a comment on another forum I posted:

In Jack’s defense, he mentions in his autobiography that with 5 laps to go “I had the most shocking run of slow cars that I have ever encountered. On one lap alone I must have lost 7 or 8 seconds.”
He does acknowledge his mistake, one of the few made in a long and illustrious career; he is just peeved it was beamed into “everybody’s living room in England and America.” He also credits Rindt’s last laps as “simply fabulous driving under any circumstances.”
Rather poor behaviour from back markers and marshals that day.

Doc Austin

29th December 2013, 16:46

D28

29th December 2013, 17:38

Believe it or not, I saw it live on ABC, or at least it was delayed and I didn't already know the result. I was watching it with about 50 other guys in a boy's schools dormitory (I was like 12) and everyone was pretty stunned with the quick turn of events. It turned me into a Rindt fan, though I already liked Brabham.

There is a video up on the net, which makes the last corner look pretty bad for Jack. Still, it doesn't show the previous laps where he had to take to the footpaths to get around one back marker. Today car radios and effective marshaling would clear the track to let the 2 contenders fight it out. In 1970, not so much.

AAReagles

1st January 2014, 14:58

With Hildebrand's Indy 500 last corner crash being called by some a case of choking I was wonder what some of you consider the biggest examples of Choking in Motorsports History?

That example you provided, along with Kevin Cogan's 'brainfade' just before the start of the 1982 Indianapolis 500 race, on the front straight, taking out a handful of cars with him, are the major blunders I can recall at the moment.

With F1, from my own observation, it would be Elio(?? spelling) Salazar punting (rear-ending) Piquet's Brabham-BMW entering the first chicane at Hochenheim just moments after Nelson passed him, at the 1982 German GP. Good win for Tambay I must say, along for team Ferrari, considering the circumstances of losing their two top drivers within a span of 3 months.

... then again, the bits of Senna and Prost coming together on a couple of occasions is another example of 'choking' IMHO, if not absolute disrespect for the sport and its fans.