Senna Movie

[Mark]

Apparently it's out on Friday 3rd June in the UK. Who's going to see it?

If you do go and see the film or if you've seen it already please write your review on this thread!

[MrJan]

I'm really looking forward to it, but not sure where it's being shown locally. I know for sure that a place in Bristol will have it but 160 miles round trip and two and a half hours in the car aren't exactly appealing.

[SGWilko]

Apparently it's out on Friday 3rd June in the UK. Who's going to see it?

If you do go and see the film or if you've seen it already please write your review on this thread!

I can confirm that the Showcase Cinema in Bluewater is showing from Friday if anybody is in this neck of the woods.

https://www.movietickets.com/pre_purchase.asp?exid=nuk&house_id=8487&movie_id=108646&showdate=2&err=3b

[MrJan]

Oh great! :rolleyes: Just posted on twitter was a link to this FB page SENNA Movie | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/sennamovie#!/sennamovie?sk=app_209842802370736)

There's a screenings tab which says where it is and it's not actually nationwide until the 21st. For the rest of the time it's actually a fairly limited run :angry:

[SGWilko]

Oh great! :rolleyes: Just posted on twitter was a link to this FB page SENNA Movie | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/sennamovie#!/sennamovie?sk=app_209842802370736)

There's a screenings tab which says where it is and it's not actually nationwide until the 21st. For the rest of the time it's actually a fairly limited run :angry:

Bath is quite accessible for you Barry isn't it? I mean the City, not the washing facility implement...!! ;)

[Mark]

Yeah it's not exactly in every multiplex is it. That being said it's on at the Tyneside - which is well known in Newcastle for showing films other than your big blockbusters. I've been after going there for years and this weekend is looking good :D

[MrJan]

Bath is quite accessible for you Barry isn't it? I mean the City, not the washing facility implement...!! ;)

I can go there but it's not exactly accessible, takes about an hour and half or so with a bit more to allow for going up and down Cheddar Gorge a few times :D The main problem is cost, a return trip is probably £30 or so, which turns into an expensive trip to the cinema :(

I wasn't expecting every multiplex but at least thought that one of the 3 cinemas in Exeter would show it on release day, even if it was only one showing.

[I am evil Homer]

I got to see a preview screening :) TBH I was worried quite how they'd pieced it all together, esp as someone who grew up wathcing Senna in F1. However I can honestly say all F1 fans will like this film, whether you loved Ayrton, despised him or were ambivalent!

There's none of that awful "here's someone sitting in their library talking" sections...it's all footage, narrated at various points by colleagues, family etc. There's some new footage too, or at least stuff I hadn't seen and I believe there was also a hell of a lot of material left out that I hope makes it onto a DVD.

So the film. It doesn't tell you anything you probably don't already know. But that is also it's strength - it is not a biographical F1 film in anyway, but merely a study of an incredibly interesting human being, who happened to be an F1 driver. Really what it presents is that there was this hugely talented man named Ayrton was never black or white, but all shades of grey. He had moments of greatness but he also had flaws.

I would say one minor quibble would be Prost does not come out of it looking that good, it did seem a little unbalanced in that respect - not sure if that was all down to editing or perhaps Alain's unwilligness to speak more? Be interesting to hear his reactions to the film.

However that aside there are some stand-out moments...the prophetic Prost "his problem is he thinks he can't kill himself" interview, Senna's "someone will die at this corner".

The beauty of it though was showing this conflicted man - a driver with no qualms about hitting Prost at high speed while also beign a driving force for the GPDA to be re-instated. A man who would show no remorse on a track, yet the car he died in contained an unfurled Austrian flag he intended to wave at the end of the GP in remberance of Roland.

Overall it's a great film with some absolutely stunning in car footage that on a Cinema screen is utterly mesmerising.

[SGWilko]

However that aside there are some stand-out moments...the prophetic Prost "his problem is he thinks he can't kill himself" interview, Senna's "someone will die at this corner".

The beauty of it though was showing this conflicted man - a driver with no qualms about hitting Prost at high speed while also beign a driving force for the GPDA to be re-instated. A man who would show no remorse on a track, yet the car he died in contained an unfurled Austrian flag he intended to wave at the end of the GP in remberance of Roland.

Overall it's a great film with some absolutely stunning in car footage that on a Cinema screen is utterly mesmerising.

Made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end

[555-04Q2]

I hope this movie is factually accurate and enjoyable and not a Hollywood style attempt to cash in on the life of Senna.

[The Black Knight]

Does anyone know where the Senna movie is being shown in Ireland?

I could probably download it at this stage but I want to see it on the big screen.

[I am evil Homer]

I hope this movie is factually accurate and enjoyable and not a Hollywood style attempt to cash in on the life of Senna.

No I don't think so...it seemed to be made with a genuine interest and love of the subject. They let the visual do the talking not have millions of 'experts' say "Senna was X". As with all these things there are no 'facts' other than his race wins, poles etc. everything else is a personal view.

What they portray is a sense of a hugely intelligent, talented man but def one who was so focused and spiritual. I found it fascianting even as someone who knows his career and watched it develop.

[SGWilko]

I hope this movie is factually accurate and enjoyable and not a Hollywood style attempt to cash in on the life of Senna.

It's all made up from actual footage - no voiceovers, just well put together and edited raw footage AIUI.

[Garry Walker]

It's all made up from actual footage - no voiceovers, just well put together and edited raw footage AIUI.
Hopefully the part where Prost tried to ram him out to win the title at Suzuka in 1989 is included.

[steveaki13]

I am hoping to go and see it at some point, if I can find time or a venue showing it near me.

[555-04Q2]

Thanks SG & Homer. I am really looking forward to watching it now :)

[SGWilko]

Booked tickets to see it on Saturday morning. Can't wait and I'm expecting to shed a tear or too..lol.. :)

Yer big Jessie. :laugh:

[vx1054]

Can't wait to see this either.

On a side note, Amazon have the Italian DVD and Blu Ray on sale now, I believe you can change to language on it to English if anyone is interested.

Personally I am going to wait to see it at the Cinema.

[Sonic]

Tickets booked for Friday night, but as my better half still hasn't grown to love F1 (despite 14 years of education ;) ) I'll be flying solo at Bluewater. :(

[SGWilko]

Tickets booked for Friday night, but as my better half still hasn't grown to love F1 (despite 14 years of education ;) ) I'll be flying solo at Bluewater. :(

Lucky you - we'll have to wait (Mrs SGWilko and I) until next week sometime due to little SGWilko's x 2 in tow!

[wedge]

I would say one minor quibble would be Prost does not come out of it looking that good, it did seem a little unbalanced in that respect - not sure if that was all down to editing or perhaps Alain's unwilligness to speak more? Be interesting to hear his reactions to the film.

Further reading:

prostfan.com - Ayrton Senna by Alain Prost (http://www.prostfan.com/senna2.htm)

Senna Versus Prost: Amazon.co.uk: Malcolm Folley: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Senna-Versus-Prost-Malcolm-Folley/dp/0099528096/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1285198470&sr=8-6)

[CaptainRaiden]

Trailer:

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I saw this movie a month ago with English subtitles, won't tell ya how *cough*. Very well made, although won't make you shed any tears henners88. :p It's very detailed, accurate and very long. Won't appeal to a casual fan, but is a MUST watch for a hardcore die-hard F1 fan, even if you have seen Senna's career unfold.

Also, it shows Prost in a rather bad light, almost like a villain, so I'm sure Prost fans are gonna call it biased. When I saw the director's name, it was Indian, so I was seriously hoping he doesn't Bollywoodize this. Thankfully that's not the case. :)

[MrJan]

That's not what I've heard at all X. Many have said that it will appeal to a huge number of people who haven't even seen an F1 race.

[Malbec]

That's not what I've heard at all X. Many have said that it will appeal to a huge number of people who haven't even seen an F1 race.

I've heard the same. Apparently on IMDB the film actually gets its highest scores from American women, many of whom weren't expecting him to die when the film gets to Imola '94.

Hopefully will get to see it this weekend though given some of the fantastic reviews its had from the non-F1 British press it seems like a very limited release.

[CaptainRaiden]

That's not what I've heard at all X. Many have said that it will appeal to a huge number of people who haven't even seen an F1 race.


I've heard the same.

Well, then I'm wrong. :D Or probably I'm underrating the casual viewer. I can understand how it's almost a documentary/movie kind of a thing, especially how they build it up from the beginning, about how Senna came on the scene and everyone took notice etc, then he met his villains, ala Prost and Jean Marie Balestre, how the journalists talking about him in the documentary are so emotional, one of them almost crying. So, it is made into one of those "rise-to-the-top and fall" sort of movies.


Apparently on IMDB the film actually gets its highest scores from American women, many of whom weren't expecting him to die when the film gets to Imola '94.

That is shocking! I didn't expect that. Probably most of the women watched it just to know who the heck men keep talking about as the greatest of all time. :p Or he was just a very well known guy. My wife who has zero interest in F1 knew who Senna was and his year of death i.e. 1994.

[GridGirl]

I cant seem to find it being shown outside of London other than at Showcase later this month. The Showcase airing is on my birthday so the I guess the other half is really lucking out this year. Who needs a posh fancy meal when you can go see a Senna movie eh? :D

[SGWilko]

Sorted - Off to Bluewater for the 7:45 tomorrow night. Not many seats left though.

[Mark]

I cant seem to find it being shown outside of London other than at Showcase later this month. The Showcase airing is on my birthday so the I guess the other half is really lucking out this year. Who needs a posh fancy meal when you can go see a Senna movie eh? :D

It's on in Manchester and York!

[Mark]

Booked for Newcastle on Saturday!

[J4MIE]

It's on in quite a lot of Cineworld cinemas. I'll be seeing it in Edinburgh on Saturday :up:
Cineworld Cinemas: Senna: watch movie trailer and book film tickets online (http://www.cineworld.co.uk/films/4330)

[Cooper_S]

I'll wait for the DVD... it should be £3 at ASDA in a few months.

[Mark]

It will, but we're all used to seeing F1 on the TV. This is the type of thing which needs to be seen on the big screen.

[MrJan]

It will, but we're all used to seeing F1 on the TV. This is the type of thing which needs to be seen on the big screen.

Exactly, that's why I really, really want to see it now, sadly not at my local Vue:

[quote="Vue Cinemas"]Thank you for your e-mail.

Please be advised that so far, the film 'Senna' will only be showing at the following Vue cinemas]

You'll notice that 4 of those 6 are in London, one other is nearby and the other is in the dirty land of The North.

Accoriding to the Odeon website they are showing it at: Camden, Covent Garden, Kensington, Kingston & Richmond...which looks strangely clustered on the map, althought tbf I think that's just this week rather than the wider release later in the month.

I know that this will be a bit of a niche film but surely the odd showing can't be too much to expect, especially given the rave reviews that it's had from motoring and non-motoring press and anyone that's seen it. I also get that testing it in a few cinemas to see what turnouts are like is a good idea, but ffs do they all have to be in London?

[555-04Q2]

It will, but we're all used to seeing F1 on the TV. This is the type of thing which needs to be seen on the big screen.

I've already got a big screen at home but sadly it comes without the following features: an idiot on his cellular, an idiot farting next to you, a lazer pointer on the screen, a kid kicking your chair, a seat with white splotches all over it, etc etc etc :p :

I guess I should have bought the top of the range one to get those extra features :p :

[Cooper_S]

It's a slightly biased documentary about a dead F1 driver; it is almost as far from the mainstream as you can get (maybe if it was in Portuguese with subtitles it would be further). Cinemas are businesses and find it had to make money as it is so it is very understandable that it is limited to largest population centres to maximise revenues and that means London with it's 10+ million people will get the lions share.

Like it or not rave reviews do not guarantee bums on seats... Subject matter does and I know if this was a slightly biased documentary about the life of Pele I would have no interest in seeing it... this will appeal mostly to F1 fans only... and even then I am a fan, I've followed F1 since the mid 1980's and have attended several races in that time but I have no interest in seeing it so I can certainly see why it is on such limited release

[I am evil Homer]

If you can see it at the cinema (unless you have a house from MTV Cribs with a private cinema) - the in car footage on cinema screen is fantastic.

[Sonic]

Sorted - Off to Bluewater for the 7:45 tomorrow night. Not many seats left though.

Got rid of the sprogs then? :)

[SGWilko]

Got rid of the sprogs then? :)

Trouble & Strife kindly suggested I take my mate with me (he's also an F1 nerd), so I get a night off. He has told me however he's not a pushover on a first date.... ;)

I will no doubt find out when I get home what she wants from me in return - a wallet opening experience I suspect.... :laugh:

[SGWilko]

I've already got a big screen at home but sadly it comes without the following features: an idiot on his cellular, an idiot farting next to you, a lazer pointer on the screen, a kid kicking your chair, a seat with white splotches all over it, etc etc etc :p :

I guess I should have bought the top of the range one to get those extra features :p :

Having two kids under 8, I get all of the above except the big screen at home - FOC! :)

Fortunately, the white splotches are yoghurt!!!!!!

[555-04Q2]

Having two kids under 8, I get all of the above except the big screen at home - FOC! :)

Fortunately, the white splotches are yoghurt!!!!!!

Nice to know my also under 8 year old boys are not the only one's who see fit to trash our couches :p :

[MrJan]

It's a slightly biased documentary about a dead F1 driver; it is almost as far from the mainstream as you can get (maybe if it was in Portuguese with subtitles it would be further). Cinemas are businesses and find it had to make money as it is so it is very understandable that it is limited to largest population centres to maximise revenues and that means London with it's 10+ million people will get the lions share.

Like it or not rave reviews do not guarantee bums on seats... Subject matter does and I know if this was a slightly biased documentary about the life of Pele I would have no interest in seeing it... this will appeal mostly to F1 fans only... and even then I am a fan, I've followed F1 since the mid 1980's and have attended several races in that time but I have no interest in seeing it so I can certainly see why it is on such limited release

I am aware that it's hardly the JLS film in terms of draw. However I didn't think that I'd be looking at a 2 hour drive to see it. I believe that it's going to a Bristol cinema at some point so that will probably be where I go, but with 120,000 people in Exeter, 260,000 in Plymouth and 420,000 in Bristol, I think that it's hardly unreasonable to think that one of them might have a cinema showing it during the opening week. Even moreso when you consider that it's showing in Bath, which has a population of about 85,000. (Although these figures are from Wiki so probably a bit vague).

Incidentally my local Vue cinema did recently show TT:3D (albeit for one night only), as did one in Plymouth, that's one of the main reasons that I expected I might get to see this film locally.

Edit: Oh and I went to see Attack The Block about 2 or 3 weeks ago, there were less than 20 in the cinema then and I'd hardly call it unreasonable to expect that a niche film like this would attract a few more people than that.

[Mark]

I've already got a big screen at home but sadly it comes without the following features: an idiot on his cellular, an idiot farting next to you, a lazer pointer on the screen, a kid kicking your chair, a seat with white splotches all over it, etc etc etc :p :

I guess I should have bought the top of the range one to get those extra features :p :

This isn't "Momma's Crazy Big House III", Certificate U. I'd expect a better class of audience at Senna

[SGWilko]

I'd expect a better class of audience at Senna

I dunno, I'm going.... ;)

[555-04Q2]

:laugh:

[Cooper_S]

Edit: Oh and I went to see Attack The Block about 2 or 3 weeks ago, there were less than 20 in the cinema then and I'd hardly call it unreasonable to expect that a niche film like this would attract a few more people than that.

I do take your point but it is not quite the same as that movie is on general release so it was playing each day with several showings in many neighbouring cinemas nationwide so its target audience was spread out.

I suspect that the overall audience for it will still exceed that of the Senna Documentary.

[MrJan]

I do take your point but it is not quite the same as that movie is on general release so it was playing each day with several showings in many neighbouring cinemas nationwide so its target audience was spread out.

I suspect that the overall audience for it will still exceed that of the Senna Documentary.

I don't doubt that. However my point was that you could easily end the run of a similar film (i.e one that's been showing for a few weeks and has reduced audiences) early and have 1 or 2 showings of Senna. The cinema itself would probably notice no real difference in numbers, if anything a few more from the niche film.

That apart, we're talking about a nationwide chain that probably has cinemas in nearly every city in the country and it's showing a film in 6 of them, 4 of which are inside the M25 and another that isn't that far away. FFS they aren't even screening it in Birmingham or Manchester. A limited release was expected, but not a strangled one.

[Dave B]

I don't doubt that. However my point was that you could easily end the run of a similar film (i.e one that's been showing for a few weeks and has reduced audiences) early and have 1 or 2 showings of Senna. The cinema itself would probably notice no real difference in numbers, if anything a few more from the niche film.


It's not about numbers for them, it's about profits. To buy a print of the Senna movie (or the rights to show the digital file) would cost far in excess of showing a film which they already have. They'd have to guarantee decent numbers to justify the cost. Hopefully if the limited screenings are successful the film will roll out to more screens.

[Cooper_S]

if anything the limited release will help it's chances as those who simply cannot bare to miss it will travel and help fill the few cinema's that are showing it thus artificially indicating how popular it would be nationwide and it might get a wider release...

[Mark]

As I understand it with cinemas almost 100% of the ticket price goes to the film makers / distributors. Cinemas make their money from the likes of popcorn, advertising and selling premium seating.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Cinemas around here seem to only be showing it on Tuesday 21st.

[Dave B]

Mark Kermode just gave it a very positive review on BBC news.

[Sonic]

Wow. That was tough to watch - Jerez and Imola particularly. Never heard a cinema so silent.

It is a bit biased, painting Prost (or Proost as one guy kept calling him - very annoying) as the villain.

Some very funny moments too. All in all, must watch cinema.

[steveaki13]

Wow. That was tough to watch - Jerez and Imola particularly. Never heard a cinema so silent.

It is a bit biased, painting Prost (or Proost as one guy kept calling him - very annoying) as the villain.

Some very funny moments too. All in all, must watch cinema.

Sounds Good.

You have made me even more determined to try and find it.

[TMorel]

Any Birmingham based folk here should see it at The Electric, they at least take pride in what and more importantly HOW they show a film.
Sadly, I saw it at Cineworld and not only did they have it in the wrong aspect ratio cutting off the subtitles (took 9 complaints to get them to change) and then randomly brought the house lights up just when the film got to Imola !!!

Anyway, as to the film itself, very impressive. Somehow they took archive footage and made it feel cinematic, it wasn't a TV documentary but a proper film and the incar footage was better than any Bourne trilogy carchase.
My friends came along, none of which were F1 fans, but they all enjoyed the film as it works on so many levels, although for me, the drivers briefings were the real eye openers.

[Sonic]

Any Birmingham based folk here should see it at The Electric, they at least take pride in what and more importantly HOW they show a film.
Sadly, I saw it at Cineworld and not only did they have it in the wrong aspect ratio cutting off the subtitles (took 9 complaints to get them to change) and then randomly brought the house lights up just when the film got to Imola !!!

Anyway, as to the film itself, very impressive. Somehow they took archive footage and made it feel cinematic, it wasn't a TV documentary but a proper film and the incar footage was better than any Bourne trilogy carchase.
My friends came along, none of which were F1 fans, but they all enjoyed the film as it works on so many levels, although for me, the drivers briefings were the real eye openers.

Indeed. 'Mr Senna, the right decision is my decision. I am always right.'

Such arrogance.

[SGWilko]

Indeed. 'Mr Senna, the right decision is my decision. I am always right.'

Such arrogance.

That was eye opening from a fan point of view. Especially Senna's reaction to NP Snr questioning in 1990 about using the final chicane run-off.

Whilst it does paint Alain in a poor light, I hardly think Prost saw the fact that he was good friends with JMB as a noose around his neck.

What did come across from the film however was just how single minded Ayrton was in his pursuit of perfection, and actually, how much winning in Brazil meant to him.

It is very clear the impact his generosity to his 'people' had on them, and why he was so revered in Brazil.

As I said to my mate during the film on some of the driver briefing sequences - some things never change!

A must see indeed.

[Sonic]

What did come across from the film however was just how single minded Ayrton was in his pursuit of perfection, and actually, how much winning in Brazil meant to him.

And some! It made Seb's celebrations last year seem controlled and calm in comparison.

[Mark]

At the Tyneside cinema now. Film starts in an hour.

[Allyc85]

In the local cinemas around here they are only showing it once, what a ****ing disgrace!!

[The Black Knight]

In the local cinemas around here they are only showing it once, what a ****ing disgrace!!
Same here in Cork Ireland and they aren't showing it until June 21st which is a load of rubbish. I emailed them about it saying that they really should show it more but they won't more than likely. I should get to see it in Dublin next week anyway.

[MattL]

I saw this at Westfield last night. I can't recommend it highly enough. Don't wait for the DVD - see it in the cinema.

The screen was full. It was a mixed audience, but everyone seemed to appreciate the film. So much so, that no-one moved until the credits had finished - dont think I've ever experienced that before at the cinema.

The film itself is remarkably well put together. I understand they trawled some 4000 hours of footage in the process of making it, so getting it down to a couple of hours is quite an achievement.

There are some stunning moments in the film and the whole thing very thought-provoking. Having read 'The Life of Senna' by Tom Rubython, it was almost scary to put pictures to some of the events described in the book.

For me, one of the most memorable scenes is Senna talking about how he had so much left to do in his life; talking about how his racing career would be short, but 'hopefully his life would go on for many years'. Also, the scenes from Imola are stunning - there really seemed to be an ominous feeling to the pre-race shots. And how strange to see the shots of Prof Sid Watkins on the grid ahead of the race - not something you see in every piece of F1 coverage.

And I still struggle to understand how the onboard camera feed cuts out just moments before the crash. The story is that, having been onboard with Senna for a long time (over a minute, I think), the TV crew opted to cut away from the feed because the quality was deteriorating. Had this footage been available, it probably would have answered many of the questions that are still outstanding.

Apologies for the ramblings - but there's so much to say about this unique film!

[SGWilko]

no-one moved until the credits had finished - dont think I've ever experienced that before at the cinema.

Ditto that for Bluewater.

[Mark]

Ditto for that at the Tyneside too. An amazing piece of work. What stood out for me is that the director didn't compromise for the sake of the audience in choosing footage in English. Most of it was in Brazilian and rightly so.

[CaptainRaiden]

Ditto for that at the Tyneside too. An amazing piece of work. What stood out for me is that the director didn't compromise for the sake of the audience in choosing footage in English. Most of it was in Brazilian and rightly so.

You mean Portuguese. ;)

[Mark]

Yes, of course! :crazy:

[Cooper_S]

Senna the movie tag line should read... The Emperor's New Clothes.

[J4MIE]

Saw it this afternoon and loved it, can't recommend it enough. They even showed it in the biggest screen in the cinema which was packed! Being a long time before I got really interested in motorsport, I only knew the headlines of what had happened so was very interesting to see it all.

[wedge]

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/cff1/cff1_20110603-1615a.mp3

Prost not too happy about the film and deems it "suspicious" - producer refers to heroes and villains.

[Mark]

I didn't think Prost came out it too badly tbh. Yes it conveyed Senna's hatred for him but I don't feel the film itself was out to get him!

[SGWilko]

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/cff1/cff1_20110603-1615a.mp3

Prost not too happy about the film and deems it "suspicious" - producer refers to heroes and villains.

Interesting however, that the director was not a F1 fan, so you'd summise it ought to be unbiased. Although, can you be unbiased towards the main character of your film?

[Mark]

Interesting however, that the director was not a F1 fan, so you'd summise it ought to be unbiased. Although, can you be unbiased towards the main character of your film?

No, of course not. Even if you aren't your audience will be.

[steveaki13]

Wow the 5 hour version sounds epic. Lets hope theres enough demand to release that.

[Mark]

I'd expect to see that on a special edition DVD / blu-ray.

[Cooper_S]

;)

Sniff Petrol (http://sniffpetrol.com/2011/06/02/2986/)

[aryan]

Anyone know when this is coming to Australia?

The Network Ten commentators said something about it having a limited release in August. Is there any truth in this?

I really want to see this on the big screen. Have heard so much about it.

[Mark]

;)

Sniff Petrol (http://sniffpetrol.com/2011/06/02/2986/)

Very nice :D

[MrJan]

Booked my tickets for the Exeter showing :D Really looking forward to it, and I get to go the Glastonbury the day after so it's gonna be a top week :bounce:

[Cooper_S]

This months Top Gear Mag had a making of the movie DVD

[GridGirl]

I booked my tickets last night. I cant wait. :)

[Malbec]

Saw it a few nights ago with my wife who hates F1. She loved it and says it made her realise what people mean when they talk about Alonso and Hamilton falling out at McLaren. The film gave insights into Senna's complex character although most F1 fans I think would know about even more facets.

I thought it was an excellently made film too, but with quite a few flaws that come from having to be less than 100 minutes long. Entire aspects of Senna's life were skipped and he looked angelic next to Prost, not hard when all his misdemeanours earlier in the '88 season were left out. While the film made it look as if Prost schemed with FISA against Senna the Brazilian's own political games using Honda were left out.

It didn't hit me emotionally as much as I expected it to. I thought I'd be welling up at Imola but I didn't, partly because the film just flies straight through the events at breakneck speed. Some reflection on the effect his death had on other drivers and team staff would have been good. The Japanese version of the film ended the Imola weekend with the Japanese footage of three reporters trying to break the news to the audience but being unable to, sobbing and breaking down in tears with each sentence. I think that would have had more impact if it was left in.

The credit sequences were great though, showing a humourous side to both Senna and to normally dour guys like Ron Dennis which was absent from the film itself.

If that sounds too critical it shouldn't do, for the time they had the director and writer did an excellent job and its fantastic. The cinema was completely silent throughout and hardly anyone left before the credits finished. I will wait for the extended version to come out on DVD and buy that too.

[Mark]

Saw it a few nights ago with my wife who hates F1. She loved it and says it made her realise what people mean when they talk about Alonso and Hamilton falling out at McLaren. The film gave insights into Senna's complex character although most F1 fans I think would know about even more facets.

They kept saying on the news that it would appeal to non-F1 fans as much as to fans. My wife didn't agree with that, although she likes F1, if it wasn't for me she wouldn't watch it, she did enjoy the film however.


I thought it was an excellently made film too, but with quite a few flaws that come from having to be less than 100 minutes long. Entire aspects of Senna's life were skipped and he looked angelic next to Prost, not hard when all his misdemeanours earlier in the '88 season were left out. While the film made it look as if Prost schemed with FISA against Senna the Brazilian's own political games using Honda were left out.


I was waiting for the Donington race to appear too, but it didn't, I guess you can't include everything!



It didn't hit me emotionally as much as I expected it to. I thought I'd be welling up at Imola but I didn't, partly because the film just flies straight through the events at breakneck speed. Some reflection on the effect his death had on other drivers and team staff would have been good. The Japanese version of the film ended the Imola weekend with the Japanese footage of three reporters trying to break the news to the audience but being unable to, sobbing and breaking down in tears with each sentence. I think that would have had more impact if it was left in.


I was actually worried going into the film that I'd be crying at Imola, but as you say, it wasn't really like that. I think that was probably deliberate on the part of the film maker, no pushing emotional buttons, just lay it out as it is.

[djparky]

I saw it this afternoon and really enjoyed it- and thought it was fantastically well made- there were some bits that I was suprised they didn't include- Portugal 88 when Senna drove Prost right up to the pitwall, Barcelona 91 or Donnington 93- but they had to keep it to 100 minutes so something had to go- the original cut was about 5 hours long

I don't think Prost came out of it too badly- I remembered most of it from that era- so there was nothing that I wasn't already aware of- they did touch on Ayrton's darker side with Suzuka 90- then kind of missed that period when he suddenly became more aware of what might happen- they showed him stopping to help Comas in the Ligier in 1992 during the end credits

The Imola sequences didn't hit me as hard as I expected either- although it wasn't pleasant to see that all over again- I did take a deep breath at some of the post accident footage

It would be tough going in a cinema environment but they could easily add another hour to this for the dvd and I'd be happy to sit and watch it again- this is aimed at those who know the story and also those who don't

[slinkster]

:p aper: Senna Film



As posted in the wrong place...

So... I booked tickets a few days ago for me and my bloke to go see Senna at the cinema. Rocked up there tonight, got my pre-booked tickets, got them torn and headed into the screen as clearly marked on my ticket. After walking into the wrong film and the usher running in after us... I then had to be told that my also clearly marked tickets stated that they were for the 21st of June and NOT tonight. :o I could not have felt more stupid. Especially knowing that I did the same thing with a Derren Brown show last year. It's becoming a habit.

I hope this film is going to be worth the embarrassment. Apparantly it's not even released in the Midlands yet according to the cinema...

[Daniel]

Saw it a few nights ago with my wife who hates F1. She loved it and says it made her realise what people mean when they talk about Alonso and Hamilton falling out at McLaren. The film gave insights into Senna's complex character although most F1 fans I think would know about even more facets.

I thought it was an excellently made film too, but with quite a few flaws that come from having to be less than 100 minutes long. Entire aspects of Senna's life were skipped and he looked angelic next to Prost, not hard when all his misdemeanours earlier in the '88 season were left out. While the film made it look as if Prost schemed with FISA against Senna the Brazilian's own political games using Honda were left out.

It didn't hit me emotionally as much as I expected it to. I thought I'd be welling up at Imola but I didn't, partly because the film just flies straight through the events at breakneck speed. Some reflection on the effect his death had on other drivers and team staff would have been good. The Japanese version of the film ended the Imola weekend with the Japanese footage of three reporters trying to break the news to the audience but being unable to, sobbing and breaking down in tears with each sentence. I think that would have had more impact if it was left in.

The credit sequences were great though, showing a humourous side to both Senna and to normally dour guys like Ron Dennis which was absent from the film itself.

If that sounds too critical it shouldn't do, for the time they had the director and writer did an excellent job and its fantastic. The cinema was completely silent throughout and hardly anyone left before the credits finished. I will wait for the extended version to come out on DVD and buy that too.

I agree mostly with this.

Caroline said coming out of the movie that it was very biased and I have to agree. It didn't completely gloss over Senna's negative points but it accentuated Prost's negatives to make Prost look far worse.

But I have to say that I've never been a fan of people like Senna, Hamilton and co who have 110% belief in themselves and who seem to think they can do no wrong, so perhaps I was never going to like it as much as some.
Still worth seeing for all the footage.

[wedge]

Left the cinema disappointed from an enthusiast's perspective. The TG feature was far, far superior.

Should have been re-titled 'Senna - In his own words'.

Will do proper review later.

[Daniel]

Should have been re-titled 'Senna - In his own words'.

:up:

[Malbec]

But I have to say that I've never been a fan of people like Senna, Hamilton and co who have 110% belief in themselves and who seem to think they can do no wrong, so perhaps I was never going to like it as much as some.
Still worth seeing for all the footage.

I guess that had the film been 'fair' then they wouldn't have been given the right to make it by Senna's family and Bernie wouldn't have given them the footage so we wouldn't have had a film at all.

The thing is that what would have made an excellent film would have been an exploration of Senna's contradictions. Quite frankly he was a ******* on the track who made MS's later exploits seem tame but he would also be the first (or only one) to get out of his car to see if a driver was ok after an accident. Exploring the different layers of his personality and asking moral questions of a driver prepared to deliberately cause accidents to win at a time when drivers still faced a serious risk of death and injury would have been very interesting.

[Daniel]

I guess that had the film been 'fair' then they wouldn't have been given the right to make it by Senna's family and Bernie wouldn't have given them the footage so we wouldn't have had a film at all.

The thing is that what would have made an excellent film would have been an exploration of Senna's contradictions. Quite frankly he was a ******* on the track who made MS's later exploits seem tame but he would also be the first (or only one) to get out of his car to see if a driver was ok after an accident. Exploring the different layers of his personality and asking moral questions of a driver prepared to deliberately cause accidents to win at a time when drivers still faced a serious risk of death and injury would have been very interesting.

Of course, there will never be a documentary that isn't biased in some way sadly.

I think a warts and all documentary would have been far more interesting than the Senna love fest I saw last night.

[wedge]

6 out of 10

Even my brother, who's a casual fan thought it was too biased.

Senna in his own words via interviews is great in concept but for a deeply divisive character it is inherently flawed.


Entire aspects of Senna's life were skipped and he looked angelic next to Prost, not hard when all his misdemeanours earlier in the '88 season were left out. While the film made it look as if Prost schemed with FISA against Senna the Brazilian's own political games using Honda were left out.


It didn't completely gloss over Senna's negative points but it accentuated Prost's negatives to make Prost look far worse.

The rivalry with Prost is worthy of a documentary itself.

Although it's all too easy to paint Prost as the 'bad guy' the rivalry was complex at times, San Marino 1989 especially but far too brief of a mention.

Prost's moaning doesn't help.

I thought the charisma of Senna in front of the media thing was a sort of myth - which is possibly true to an extent. My take is that when Senna had a point to make, he enjoyed that limelight.

In a post race press conference (not featured in the movie) from certain race I cannot recall Senna talks of Prost wanting his competitors to be in lead shoes and Mansell replies by patting on Senna's back again doesn't help Prost's image from that era.

The aftermath of Japan 1989, McLaren's offensive is easily forgotten. McLaren insisted Prost left the door open - arguably an error of Prost but Senna's insistence and admission that he purposely taken out Prost was criminally left out.

So too was JYS' interview suggesting Senna was dangerous and there then you're begging for examples to leave for the viewers to decide.


But I have to say that I've never been a fan of people like Senna, Hamilton and co who have 110% belief in themselves and who seem to think they can do no wrong, so perhaps I was never going to like it as much as some.

I don't have that as a huge problem as long there is a chance for the viewer to decide. Senna's faults was passed in mention via JYS and glossed over.

However I do feel that their arrogance/self belief is warranted to an extent in that their sheer brilliance just about outweighs their negatives of having a competitive streak. Maybe 55/45 if you want to give me a number.

It's the bad cliche of Brazillian football team would rather lose by playing brilliant football than pragmatism which was true in F1 - Senna getting the attention when Prost won.

Attacking driving is great to watch but also has great flaw when you're driving on the edge. Ruthless overtaking moves and too unforgiving to backmarkers being a great example in Senna's case.

[Koz]

It was alright. Gotta feel for Prost's portrayal though a bit.

Am I the only one who finds John Bisignano's mannerism extremely annoying/weird?

[wedge]

Being anal here but John Bisignano was actually pit lane reporter for ESPN; Bob Varsha and David Hobbs were the commentators

[555-04Q2]

Judging by the responses on here, I shouldn't waste my time getting the DVD when it comes out then :?:

[Daniel]

Judging by the responses on here, I shouldn't waste my time getting the DVD when it comes out then :?:

Depends if you're a Senna fan or not I guess

[555-04Q2]

Not really, but I enjoy everything F1.

[Daniel]

Well the footage is fantastic and even if it is a biased story it's a good one. It's not terrible or anything, just not as good as some people are suggesting (IMHO :) )

[555-04Q2]

:up: Will grab it from the bargain bin soon :)

[Mark]

Top Gear tribute: YouTube - ‪Ayrton Senna Top Gear Tribute‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmqn3heGgE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[Daniel]

I enjoyed the film for what it is and the film makers from the interviews I've seen have always maintained they wanted to show Senna the way he would have wanted. Obviously that comes with a fair amount of bias but why not eh? The title "Senna" is simple and doesn't really need a sentence to tell the viewers what its about IMO, it just describes the character portrayed. If they wanted it to be a descriptive and accurate account of his whole career they would not have included much of the narration in Senna's own voice. I'm sure if Prost wanted a film made about himself he would want himself to look like an angel in the whole affair when we all know they both played the political game as much as each other. If the film was called "Senna and Prost" we would possibly have seen a more impartial final cut.

Senna's dead, who cares what he thinks?

[wedge]

We wouldn't take part on this forum if it was like that and I don't see why a film thats been made about a famous driver of the past is expected to be so impartial that its satisfies every fan, even the ones who didn't like the guy when he was alive.

Surely a good documentary should lay down facts, points of view and leaves the viewer to form an opinion.

In the early 90s there was a video titled 'Racing Is In My Blood' which was pretty much that, Senna in his own words.

Being pedantic her but surely 'Senna' there is an expectation of it to be the definitive account of Senna.

The film has notable flaws:

Karting Prodigy Terry Fullerton is mentioned. Surely we should hear from Fullerton? At a karting World Championship meeting Fullerton barged his way past Senna which Senna thought was unjust. The next day Senna pushes Fullerton into a swimming pool! Surely that was been a key moment as hinted Christopher Hilton's biography?

The rivalry with Prost and leading up to Japan 1989 was way too brief.

The reconciliation with Prost was criminally completely left out. YouTube - ‪"I miss you Alain"‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PidqojMK2lY#t=4m40)


Top Gear tribute: YouTube - ‪Ayrton Senna Top Gear Tribute‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmqn3heGgE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)


Racing Is In My Blood: YouTube - ‪Ayrton Senna - Racing Is In My Blood Pt 1‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6brLntJE8s)

BBC documentary: YouTube - ‪Senna Documentary Part 1‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR6ODE15gRo)

[Mark]

I think some people have misconceptions, was it ever billed as a completely impartial documentary which "laid out the facts"?

[MrJan]

I think some people have misconceptions, was it ever billed as a completely impartial documentary which "laid out the facts"?

Indeed, I thought that the fact it was titled SENNA suggested that it might be blowing the trumpet a bit.

[Cooper_S]

I think some people have misconceptions, was it ever billed as a completely impartial documentary which "laid out the facts"?

No it wasn't, but the fact it is now made it will however become seen as factual, new generations of fan who never watch Senna race live will only know this biased view of the flawed Champion.

Senna was such a emotive figure his tragic death so young and in the manner it happened has almost guaranteed his cult status... this movie is shifting him from flawed Racing genius to Saint.

However.... As much as I am no fan of how Senna is becoming portrayed as time passes, I have decided to go and see it, Tuesday 21st @ 7pm, all booked... should be interesting.

[I am evil Homer]

So you've based your opinion of it without actually seeing it, I see.

Moving him towards sainthood? The entire narrative thread was he was utterly and fatally flawed, partly because he had such total self belief. But that is the beauty and complexity of the man. I don't think opinions of him have changed in the slightest over time just the over-riding feeling of "what might have been" if he'd not been killed. What would F1 be like now? What else could he have acheived?

[Mark]

So you've based your opinion of it without actually seeing it, I see.

Moving him towards sainthood? The entire narrative thread was he was utterly and fatally flawed, partly because he had such total self belief. But that is the beauty and complexity of the man. I don't think opinions of him have changed in the slightest over time just the over-riding feeling of "what might have been" if he'd not been killed. What would F1 be like now? What else could he have acheived?

Certainly F1 in the mid-1990's would have been quite different. He would quite likely won the 1994 World Championship - considering how close Damon Hill came to doing that. But would likely still have been outclassed by the 1995 Benetton.

Then the question would have been how long would he wish to continue? I wouldn't have seen him competing much beyond the end of the 1990's.

[Daniel]

So you've based your opinion of it without actually seeing it, I see.

Moving him towards sainthood? The entire narrative thread was he was utterly and fatally flawed, partly because he had such total self belief. But that is the beauty and complexity of the man.

Perhaps for some people that isn't beautiful?

[555-04Q2]

Indeed, I thought that the fact it was titled SENNA suggested that it might be blowing the trumpet a bit.

Well they couldn't have titled it as PROST now could they :p :

[wedge]

I think some people have misconceptions, was it ever billed as a completely impartial documentary which "laid out the facts"?

The tag line:

No Fear. No Limits. No Equal.

How far did he push those limits? The movie skimmed the surface when there was many, many layers.


No it wasn't, but the fact it is now made it will however become seen as factual, new generations of fan who never watch Senna race live will only know this biased view of the flawed Champion.

Certainly there is a whiff of fanboyism. The other thing which was criminally left out was when he said Senna was going to and admitted to deliberately taking out Prost ("Prost tried to destroy me"). I'm not sure you quite the idea that Senna's competitive streak would send his moral compass into haywire. Even Senna admitted to Mansell on the podium at the 1992 Australian GP "now you know why I'm such a b*****d. It's is because I don't want anyone else to have the same feeling".

And speaking of Mansell, those battles were certainly great example of fearless racer is another man's dangerous driver debate.


Judging by the responses on here, I shouldn't waste my time getting the DVD when it comes out then :?:

IMHO, and despite what I've posted it is certainly is worth watching in a cinema but then I don't have a home cinema set up at home! It is an absolute joy to watch Senna on the limit on a big screen. A lot of the stuff can be seen on YT and it never tires. The 100mins flew by.

[Daniel]

No one is forcing you as far as I am aware.

Never suggested that anyone was :) I'm just saying that one mans hero is another mans villain.

[steveaki13]

So you've based your opinion of it without actually seeing it, I see.



Thats the impression a lot of people on this forum seem to give after each F1 race. :p :

[wedge]

You couldn't satisfy everyone even if they attempted to make a factual documentary because there would still be complaints about things being missed out. The fact the film is so short and the director has admitted alot was left out because of time, this means making it as impartial as possible would have been difficult. Why not just make a feature film about Senna? Prost is around to defend himself if he feels his selfish view is not being considered, but this film shows it from Senna's selfish view and anyone with any knowledge of the sport should take it in the spirit that was intended as they should be aware of the facts anyway. Those not familiar with Senna will read more into it if they are interested IMO. I'm yet to see anyone who fully defends Senna's viewpoints in the film, but many have enjoyed it. :)

Yes, I know, wishful thinking on my part.

Considering they pretty much had complete access to archive footage and FOM approval and they ended up with a very simplistic story of Senna's life in F1. Whether some of the audience will want to look up further on Senna in greater detail, well who knows?

[ArrowsFA1]

Considering they pretty much had complete access to archive footage and FOM approval...
I heard the writer on a MotorSport magazine podcast (http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2011/06/15/motor-sport-senna-evening-podcast/) say that that although that had access to the archive their deal with Bernie allowed them 40mins of footage. This was apparently almost doubled but still they inevitably had to be selective. I also read that the first cut of the film was 5hrs long but to make it palatable for a cinema release that too had to be cut dramatically.

I saw the film yesterday and was impressed. Yes, Prost & Balestre were made out to be the baddies, but not to the extent I had expected. This was a film about Senna. It was his story, told largely by him, not a documentary about that period in F1 history. Were it the latter then I would have expected more balance, but as it wasn't then I have no problem with the way Senna's story was told. It was an absorbing and powerful film that gave an insight into the man that I hadn't seen or read elsewhere. We all know he was no saint, but even if you're not a fan perhaps having seen the film you may at least understand why he did what he did to Prost in Japan. That doesn't mean I, or anyone else condones it, just that you may understand his actions more.

The one thing that surprised me was my emotional reaction, not to the events at Imola, but to his victory in the Brazilian GP. That win clearly meant so much to him, and to Brazil.

[Robinho]

i saw it last night and i thouroughly enjoyed it. I was never a huge fan of Senna when i was younger, probably as i was only 10 in 1988 and was not immersed in the sport to the extent I am now. I was begining to understand why he was such a big deal by 1994, but even then I only watched the races, the other information was simply not available to me then as it is now, and having read and seen a lot since his death I thought the film was fantastic. It obviously was a little one sided, but not excessivley. The time flew by and I would have loved to have seen a bit more of a review of the seasons, but that would easily have taken the film over 3 or 4 hours.

The Imola scenes were a tough watch, from the Rubens accident onwards, and especially Senna's reactions to seeing the Ratzenberger crash and understanding exactly how bad it was. there were some incredibly prophetic statements leading up to the event as well.

You can only imagine what might have been, nit just in the years where he was in a realtively uncompetitive Lotus and McLaren, to what might have happened after '94.

all in all an incredibly well put together piece of film, there was obviously so much more that could have gone in, but it was a very powerful piece of cinema and well worth a watch for anyone interested in F1 at all

[Daniel]

I heard the writer on a MotorSport magazine podcast (http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2011/06/15/motor-sport-senna-evening-podcast/) say that that although that had access to the archive their deal with Bernie allowed them 40mins of footage. This was apparently almost doubled but still they inevitably had to be selective. I also read that the first cut of the film was 5hrs long but to make it palatable for a cinema release that too had to be cut dramatically.

I saw the film yesterday and was impressed. Yes, Prost & Balestre were made out to be the baddies, but not to the extent I had expected. This was a film about Senna. It was his story, told largely by him, not a documentary about that period in F1 history. Were it the latter then I would have expected more balance, but as it wasn't then I have no problem with the way Senna's story was told. It was an absorbing and powerful film that gave an insight into the man that I hadn't seen or read elsewhere. We all know he was no saint, but even if you're not a fan perhaps having seen the film you may at least understand why he did what he did to Prost in Japan. That doesn't mean I, or anyone else condones it, just that you may understand his actions more.

The one thing that surprised me was my emotional reaction, not to the events at Imola, but to his victory in the Brazilian GP. That win clearly meant so much to him, and to Brazil.

I don't see why we need to see what Senna wanted us to see. Senna's dead.

[Robinho]

I don't see why we need to see what Senna wanted us to see. Senna's dead.

yes, you've made that point quite clear already. A senna movie without Senna footage would be quite short. Arrows didn't say it was what Senna wanted us to see either.

The film is about Senna, and obviously focuses on his successes but not without saying anything about his flaws, as a human interest piece its very good. it does give a lot of insight into what the man was about, whether you like(d) him or not. If you don't want to see it so be it, but its a lot easier to comment on it if you have.

[SGWilko]

I don't see why we need to see what Senna wanted us to see. Senna's dead.

Seena being dead would, I imagine, leave him somewhat cut off from the decisions as to what should or should not be included in the film, don't you think?

[SGWilko]

yes, you've made that point quite clear already. A senna movie without Senna footage would be quite short. Arrows didn't say it was what Senna wanted us to see either.

The film is about Senna, and obviously focuses on his successes but not without saying anything about his flaws, as a human interest piece its very good. it does give a lot of insight into what the man was about, whether you like(d) him or not. If you don't want to see it so be it, but its a lot easier to comment on it if you have.

On the DVD (the trouble and strife got me the Italian version for fathers' day from my kids) the extended cut features a lot more input from Prost and, IMO, balances out any percieved bias that makes him out to be the bad guy.

[Malbec]

The one thing that surprised me was my emotional reaction, not to the events at Imola, but to his victory in the Brazilian GP. That win clearly meant so much to him, and to Brazil.

I too found the footage of the Brazilian fans explaining both why they adored him so much and why they mourned his death incredibly touching, especially since I never really understood before why he seemed to be held in much higher regard than other Brazilian champions like Piquet.

[SGWilko]

But you'd liked to have seen a balanced documentary of events that are no longer relevant and happened nearly 20 years ago? Who cares eh?

You obviously didn't enjoy the film and have already stated you didn't like Senna, so why are you wasting your time discussing something you apparently don't care about? Opinions are opinions and I could quite easily say I don't care what anonymous people say on forums because I don't know them so why care? What would be the point in saying that unless I wanted to create abit of tension? We could also use the same tactic to say who cares what Prost thinks? If you agree with one driver over the other you're going to see the film from a certain angle. Pro-Prost are going to hate it. Pro-Senna are going to love it. My recommendation would be to those who haven't seen it and hated Senna, not to watch it. :)

Why would anyone who didn't like Senna watch it anyway? Would be a bit like a homophobic watching Philadelphia.....

[The Black Knight]

Senna's dead, who cares what he thinks?
Since he’s dead I doubt he “thinks” anything about it.

I've seen this movie twice and I believe it to be an excellently put together piece covering the life of this genius. He is probably the best driver of all time. Some of the things he did with the car were incredible. Senna pushed the limit of the limit, and created his own limit that only he could find. His qualifying performance in Monaco 1988 says it all to me and his race the next day. Never before have we witnessed a driver manage to do something like this. If it weren't for McLaren coming on the radio that day to tell him to slow down I believe he would have won that race and not crashed out. Up to that point in the race he completely humiliated Prost.

I wish I were old enough to have seen this genius in his hay day. Unfortunatel, I'm not but at least this movie shows what a humble and genuine person he was. He had his flaws. Well all know about Japan 1990. If there was one flaw with this movie it is that it doesn't really convey Prosts side of the story very well. I know there is more to it than meets the eye from this movie should I say. Senna was no saint.

He was, however, a better driver than Prost overall and quite probably the best of all time. Genius.

[Daniel]

Since he’s dead I doubt he “thinks” anything about it.

I've seen this movie twice and I believe it to be an excellently put together piece covering the life of this genius. He is probably the best driver of all time. Some of the things he did with the car were incredible. Senna pushed the limit of the limit, and created his own limit that only he could find. His qualifying performance in Monaco 1988 says it all to me and his race the next day. Never before have we witnessed a driver manage to do something like this. If it weren't for McLaren coming on the radio that day to tell him to slow down I believe he would have won that race and not crashed out. Up to that point in the race he completely humiliated Prost.

I wish I were old enough to have seen this genius in his hay day. Unfortunatel, I'm not but at least this movie shows what a humble and genuine person he was. He had his flaws. Well all know about Japan 1990. If there was one flaw with this movie it is that it doesn't really convey Prosts side of the story very well. I know there is more to it than meets the eye from this movie should I say. Senna was no saint.

He was, however, a better driver than Prost overall and quite probably the best of all time. Genius.

Tbh I don't think he was all that humble. He knew he was good and he showed it. Nothing wrong that of course.

Contrary to what some think, I did enjoy the movie, I just think that a bit of balance would have improved it.

[Dave B]

You can only imagine what might have been, nit just in the years where he was in a realtively uncompetitive Lotus and McLaren, to what might have happened after '94.

That's the great unanswered question, isn't it? Williams were on the brink of a period of dominance: the '95 car wasn't exactly shabby and they took drivers' titles in the following two years. It's not inconceivable that we could have been talking of a 6-time champion. We'll never know.

[wedge]

If it weren't for McLaren coming on the radio that day to tell him to slow down I believe he would have won that race and not crashed out. Up to that point in the race he completely humiliated Prost.

Prost was catching, at one point sliced off 6 seconds in a single lap.

[The Black Knight]

Tbh I don't think he was all that humble. He knew he was good and he showed it. Nothing wrong that of course.

Contrary to what some think, I did enjoy the movie, I just think that a bit of balance would have improved it.

I agree, that's what I mean about the Prost scenario. A bit of balance there would have improved it. There is a 2h 45 minute version out there which also shows Prosts side of the story a bit more apparently.

[The Black Knight]

Prost was catching, at one point sliced off 6 seconds in a single lap.

That's because Senna had slowed down. He then set two fastest laps of the race and on lap 67 he crashed out. Prost wouldn't have caught him nor would he have won the race had he not been held up by Berger for the first 54 laps of the race.

Senna was on a different level to him that weekend.

[SGWilko]

I agree, that's what I mean about the Prost scenario. A bit of balance there would have improved it. There is a 2h 45 minute version out there which also shows Prosts side of the story a bit more apparently.

It does, but it also makes Prost look like a whining excuse making twit, and it made me want to punch his nose straight!!! ;)

[wedge]

That's because Senna had slowed down. He then set two fastest laps of the race and on lap 67 he crashed out. Prost wouldn't have caught him nor would he have won the race had he not been held up by Berger for the first 54 laps of the race.

Senna was on a different level to him that weekend.

Keep in mind that in later races/years he crashed into backmarkers in similar circumstances eg. 1988 Italian GP he crashed into Schlesser when Berger's Ferrari was catching because Senna tried to up the difference in power in the chicanes.

Regardless of slow puncture (or not - just why do people confirm things decades later?) driving on the limit means your are more open to mistakes.

Senna was far too engrossed in his own arrogance of seeking perfection at that time.

Yes you can look at 1992 but that was a more mature drive that didn't quite have the intensity of a raging bull.

[Daniel]

Keep in mind that in later races/years he crashed into backmarkers in similar circumstances eg. 1988 Italian GP he crashed into Schlesser when Berger's Ferrari was catching because Senna tried to up the difference in power in the chicanes.

Regardless of slow puncture (or not - just why do people confirm things decades later?) driving on the limit means your are more open to mistakes.

Senna was far too engrossed in his own arrogance of seeking perfection at that time.

Yes you can look at 1992 but that was a more mature drive that didn't quite have the intensity of a raging bull.

You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away.

[The Black Knight]

Keep in mind that in later races/years he crashed into backmarkers in similar circumstances eg. 1988 Italian GP he crashed into Schlesser when Berger's Ferrari was catching because Senna tried to up the difference in power in the chicanes.

Regardless of slow puncture (or not - just why do people confirm things decades later?) driving on the limit means your are more open to mistakes.

Senna was far too engrossed in his own arrogance of seeking perfection at that time.

Yes you can look at 1992 but that was a more mature drive that didn't quite have the intensity of a raging bull.

Wasn't that the great thing about him, though? Always seeking perfection, always seeking to improve and clearly he did improve.

If memory serves me, regards the Italian GP and I've only seen it once or twice the footage many moons ago, didn't Schlesser move across Senna going into the chicane when Senna was alongside? Would you not have caused that Schlesser's fault?

[slinkster]

FINALLY saw it last night... the audience was VERY quiet coming out the cinema, I guess just absorbing it all really.

I thought it was really well done. Pretty focussed and achieving what it set out to do. Moving, interesting... not as much Prost bashing as I expected either. I find it a bit wierd that I can't actually remember his death. I remember watching F1 with my Dad, I remember the teams and their colours, I remember all the drivers names of that era, I would have been about ten years old... but I just cannot remember his death.

[raphael_2]

As a film, it was great, but it was not at all an accurate recollection of his 'war' with Prost. I think it kind of took the gloss off it - hence why I said it was a a great movie, rather than a great documentary. I think the best quote I've read in here is "You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away."

Prost was, without a doubt, a better driver than Senna. Was he quicker? No, but in a similar way to Alonso today (against Hamilton and Vettel), he was a better driver. It is interesting when watching the highlights of previous races on the BBC site in the build up to a race weekend, Senna seems to collide or cause an accident in half of his races. He may very well have been a perfection, but rarely did his attempt for perfection result in that.

[The Black Knight]

As a film, it was great, but it was not at all an accurate recollection of his 'war' with Prost. I think it kind of took the gloss off it - hence why I said it was a a great movie, rather than a great documentary. I think the best quote I've read in here is "You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away."

Prost was, without a doubt, a better driver than Senna. Was he quicker? No, but in a similar way to Alonso today (against Hamilton and Vettel), he was a better driver. It is interesting when watching the highlights of previous races on the BBC site in the build up to a race weekend, Senna seems to collide or cause an accident in half of his races. He may very well have been a perfection, but rarely did his attempt for perfection result in that.

Straw-men alert.

Senna was better than Prost and he was quicker. This is why Ballestre had to go sifting through a regulation in Japan 89 to try and win Prost the title. It's why Senna won the title in 88. Senna should have won the championship in 89. He got his revenge the next year. So discounting both those years where they both cheated to attain the title, the one year that they did it fairly Senna beat Prost. Not alone that but I believe he became a far better driver after his third title. He was the best in the wet, he was the best in the dry.

Regars the quote, "You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away." I don't remember anyone mentioning how fast Ratzenberger was in this thread. He was in the Senna movie too... Quote busted.

[Daniel]

Regars the quote, "You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away." I don't remember anyone mentioning how fast Ratzenberger was in this thread. He was in the Senna movie too... Quote busted.

If you say so.

[The Black Knight]

Sorry I fail to see how you call someone a strawman and then start your post in the same fashion. People are entitled to opposing opinions my friend.

Oops. It's the without a doubt part I was referring to. Very absolute. My post was simply showing why it was such a straw-man though I didn't make that clear I admit. I kinda got lost along the way and failed to make the point.

[The Black Knight]

If you say so.

Ok, I'll help you out. Ratzenberger was on Senna's level.

Happy?

[Robinho]

Thats not a bad thing. Imola 1994 was one of the most surreal things I had ever seen at the time. I was 12 years old, already keen on the sport, and bewildered by the fact the biggest name in the sport was dying on the television. I was obviously too young to appreciate how great Senna was at the time, but in the years that followed I began to understand the void he left behind.

it was a very surreal weekend, i missed the saturday for some reason and remember looking on ceefax (remember that, page 360, motorsport) to see that Ratzenburger was in hospital in a coma (i think they had offically announced his death by then but it hadn't filtered through the weekend media) On the sunday i saw in the morning that he'd died, and we were then out all day. We recorded the race (on VHS). Then when we got back for some reason my dad put the ceefax on rather than just watching the race. We saw the news that Senna had been killed. Bizarrely we then still sat down and watched the race, knowing what was coming. still very vivid. as i said before in the thread i was only just developing an appreciation for Senna (as a kid I supported Mansell and Senna was the biggest rival)

[raphael_2]

Straw-men alert.

Senna was better than Prost and he was quicker. This is why Ballestre had to go sifting through a regulation in Japan 89 to try and win Prost the title. It's why Senna won the title in 88. Senna should have won the championship in 89. He got his revenge the next year. So discounting both those years where they both cheated to attain the title, the one year that they did it fairly Senna beat Prost. Not alone that but I believe he became a far better driver after his third title. He was the best in the wet, he was the best in the dry.

Regars the quote, "You seem to have discovered the curious habit that dead drivers have of getting even faster and even better once they pass away." I don't remember anyone mentioning how fast Ratzenberger was in this thread. He was in the Senna movie too... Quote busted.

Talk about being taken in by the film. Senna broke the rules - hence his disqualification. I agree though the reasoning behind his disqualification was odd, because it was not a rule that had been enforced throughout that season. Lets not forget though, had Senna won the race, it doesn't mean he would have won the title, it would have simply prolonged his title challenge.

Also, in 1988, which is the season you are judging them by (a bit silly I would argue, as we should judge them on their whole career, not one season) - Prost actually beat Senna, scoring 105 points to Senna's 94.

Was Senna better? That depends if quicker = better. I don't think it does. Senna was quick, but he was only so quick because he took so many risks, hence why he was always crashing. I believe Prost paced himself, and drove to the position he needed to - if he only needed 2nd place, he would not race at his full potential in order to get 1st. That was a big difference between Prost and Senna.

Your final point is quite true, being dead doesn't necessarily mean people will remember you as better than you are, but you can not deny that Senna's death has resulted in him being reviewed favourably. Naturally, you focus on the positives, rather than the negatives.

[ArrowsFA1]

I just think that a bit of balance would have improved it.
Had it been intended to be a documentary about a period in F1 history I would have agreed with you, but it wasn't. This was told from the perspective of one of the protagonists.

Perhaps someone will make a film based on Malcolm Folley's book "Senna Versus Prost" which should provide the balance you're seeking, although apparently that book is biased in favour of Prost :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

it was a very surreal weekend...
That's one of the things the film brought back so vividly. It's the kind of weekend I hope F1 never sees again.

[The Black Knight]

Talk about being taken in by the film. Senna broke the rules - hence his disqualification. I agree though the reasoning behind his disqualification was odd, because it was not a rule that had been enforced throughout that season. Lets not forget though, had Senna won the race, it doesn't mean he would have won the title, it would have simply prolonged his title challenge.

Also, in 1988, which is the season you are judging them by (a bit silly I would argue, as we should judge them on their whole career, not one season) - Prost actually beat Senna, scoring 105 points to Senna's 94.

Was Senna better? That depends if quicker = better. I don't think it does. Senna was quick, but he was only so quick because he took so many risks, hence why he was always crashing. I believe Prost paced himself, and drove to the position he needed to - if he only needed 2nd place, he would not race at his full potential in order to get 1st. That was a big difference between Prost and Senna.

Your final point is quite true, being dead doesn't necessarily mean people will remember you as better than you are, but you can not deny that Senna's death has resulted in him being reviewed favourably. Naturally, you focus on the positives, rather than the negatives.

Not taken by the film. There is nothing I said above that I didn't know before the movie. It was the best 11 results rule that accounted towards the championship in 1988. Senna had the best 11 results :) Just because it's not comparable with todays system doesn't mean it's any less of an achievement. Senna did what he had to in order to win the championship and won 8 races and three second places to Prosts 7 wins and 4 second places.

I agree, quicker does not necessarily equal better. No doubt about that. For me, after Senna became champion for the third time he became a far more complete driver much less prone to errors then his earlier days. I doubt Prost could have touched him then. Was he better than Prost at that stage comparing to Prost at his peak? Most definitely, imo. But I agree regarding 1988-90 seasons, it was far closer than most people realise.

Also, I do agree that being dead a lot of people have put a halo over his head and revered him as some sort of God in motorsport realms. A lot of people see him as the best ever, I don't see him as that. When you start talking about the best ever it's an argument that can never be really answered. Schumacher holds all the stats, so does that make him the best? Even comparing Senna's first 161 GP's to Schumacher first 161 GP's, Schumacher pretty much holds all the stats too compared to Senna. Would Schuey in his prime have beaten Senna in his prime? It would be too close to call wouldn't it? You could argue for either driver in this circumstance, as one could argue the same for Prost and Fangio and Clark etc

I'd really put my top 5 on equal pegging with each other. If I had a gun to my head and forced to pick the better driver, I'd probably pick Schumacher because of his consistency, patience and ability to extract the most from every situation both on and off the track but not because of his all out qualifying speed. If I wanted the driver that was quickest in qualifying I'd choose Senna though I would also say there would be plenty of races that he would have beaten Schumacher, and likewise there would have been many races where Prost would have beaten both of them. The same goes for Fangio and Clark. One can never actually answer conclusively who was the best. In truth, at their prime, they were probably all fairly equal.

[raphael_2]

Not taken by the film. There is nothing I said above that I didn't know before the movie. It was the best 11 results rule that accounted towards the championship in 1988. Senna had the best 11 results :) Just because it's not comparable with todays system doesn't mean it's any less of an achievement. Senna did what he had to in order to win the championship and won 8 races and three second places to Prosts 7 wins and 4 second places.

I agree, quicker does not necessarily equal better. No doubt about that. For me, after Senna became champion for the third time he became a far more complete driver much less prone to errors then his earlier days. I doubt Prost could have touched him then. Was he better than Prost at that stage comparing to Prost at his peak? Most definitely, imo. But I agree regarding 1988-90 seasons, it was far closer than most people realise.

Also, I do agree that being dead a lot of people have put a halo over his head and revered him as some sort of God in motorsport realms. A lot of people see him as the best ever, I don't see him as that. When you start talking about the best ever it's an argument that can never be really answered. Schumacher holds all the stats, so does that make him the best? Even comparing Senna's first 161 GP's to Schumacher first 161 GP's, Schumacher pretty much holds all the stats too compared to Senna. Would Schuey in his prime have beaten Senna in his prime? It would be too close to call wouldn't it? You could argue for either driver in this circumstance, as one could argue the same for Prost and Fangio and Clark etc

I'd really put my top 5 on equal pegging with each other. If I had a gun to my head and forced to pick the better driver, I'd probably pick Schumacher because of his consistency, patience and ability to extract the most from every situation both on and off the track but not because of his all out qualifying speed. If I wanted the driver that was quickest in qualifying I'd choose Senna though I would also say there would be plenty of races that he would have beaten Schumacher, and likewise there would have been many races where Prost would have beaten both of them. The same goes for Fangio and Clark. One can never actually answer conclusively who was the best. In truth, at their prime, they were probably all fairly equal.

I agree with your last paragraph, where you say they would probably all be fairly equal - though you should note that is different to what you say earlier in the same post, where you say Senna was without a doubt a better driver than Prost after he won his third title. I don't think even you know how you feel about who was better - if your last paragraph is genuine.

From what I have seen, though Senna was undoubtedly a better driver after winning his titles, which is natural as he was more experienced, he still made too many mistakes to be considered better than Prost. In 1992 alone he retired from 7 races, whilst some of this was due to reliability issues, it was also due to the fact he kept on colliding and crashing out. You could argue he was trying to extract more than what he could from the car to try and compete with the Williams, similar to Lewis Hamilton this year - however to be regarded as better Prost, an all time great, he shouldn't be making those mistakes.

Also, other than you saying Senna was undoubtedly better, you haven't been very forthcoming with evidence to suggest otherwise.

I would put Senna in the Top 5 of all time, however by the time Alonso and Hamilton have finished their business in the sport, I would expect to see them pass him. I think Alonso has already.

[I am evil Homer]

but you can not deny that Senna's death has resulted in him being reviewed favourably. Naturally, you focus on the positives, rather than the negatives.

Yes you can deny that pretty easily....as his faults are always mentioned alongside his merits. That's why Senna still holds a fascination - yes his untimely death is part of that 'mythology' but so too is his flawed nature and that while that 'will to win' leant itself to some stunning drives in GPs it was also responsible for many accidents.

[raphael_2]

Yes you can deny that pretty easily....as his faults are always mentioned alongside his merits. That's why Senna still holds a fascination - yes his untimely death is part of that 'mythology' but so too is his flawed nature and that while that 'will to win' leant itself to some stunning drives in GPs it was also responsible for many accidents.

No, you can't deny it, if you do, you are deluding yourself - most people focus on the winning, rather than the accidents.

[The Black Knight]

I agree with your last paragraph, where you say they would probably all be fairly equal - though you should note that is different to what you say earlier in the same post, where you say Senna was without a doubt a better driver than Prost after he won his third title. I don't think even you know how you feel about who was better - if your last paragraph is genuine.
From what I have seen, though Senna was undoubtedly a better driver after winning his titles, which is natural as he was more experienced, he still made too many mistakes to be considered better than Prost. In 1992 alone he retired from 7 races, whilst some of this was due to reliability issues, it was also due to the fact he kept on colliding and crashing out. You could argue he was trying to extract more than what he could from the car to try and compete with the Williams, similar to Lewis Hamilton this year - however to be regarded as better Prost, an all time great, he shouldn't be making those mistakes.
Also, other than you saying Senna was undoubtedly better, you haven't been very forthcoming with evidence to suggest otherwise.
I would put Senna in the Top 5 of all time, however by the time Alonso and Hamilton have finished their business in the sport, I would expect to see them pass him. I think Alonso has already.
Yes, it is different but my paragraph was to show you that it can’t be said that Prost was without doubt a better driver. I got lost while writing that post though and clearly failed to make that point afterwards. It was a bad post. The last paragraph is how I view things and no, I cannot say who was truly better.

The reason that I would say that Senna was better is because in 88 he beat Prost fair and square to the title. In 89 he could every well have beaten Prost as well had it not been for Prost cheating and running to the stewards. You may call it a just disqualification; I say it’s along the same lines as Hamilton in Spa 2008. Neither broke the rules, it simply suited the FIA and the championship outlook to impose those penalties. In a case where the decision is so marginal a penalty should never apply in my opinion.
In 1992 Senna had 5 car failures. The other two were collisions. Two collisions is probably a little too much for a driver of his quality but still within the acceptable margin of error over the course of a season I’d say. It’s not as bad as you painted it to be :)

I don't believe Alonso has passed Senna at all, nor do I believe he is at his level. I don't believe Alonso is as good as Hamilton either but I regard Hammy as the quickest (but as you say not necessarily best) driver out there. Hamilton needs to get a bit more consistent and he would be, by a mile, the best driver in the world, in my opinion.

[raphael_2]

Yes, it is different but my paragraph was to show you that it can’t be said that Prost was without doubt a better driver. I got lost while writing that post though and clearly failed to make that point afterwards. It was a bad post. The last paragraph is how I view things and no, I cannot say who was truly better.

The reason that I would say that Senna was better is because in 88 he beat Prost fair and square to the title. In 89 he could every well have beaten Prost as well had it not been for Prost cheating and running to the stewards. You may call it a just disqualification; I say it’s along the same lines as Hamilton in Spa 2008. Neither broke the rules, it simply suited the FIA and the championship outlook to impose those penalties. In a case where the decision is so marginal a penalty should never apply in my opinion.
In 1992 Senna had 5 car failures. The other two were collisions. Two collisions is probably a little too much for a driver of his quality but still within the acceptable margin of error over the course of a season I’d say. It’s not as bad as you painted it to be :)

I don't believe Alonso has passed Senna at all, nor do I believe he is at his level. I don't believe Alonso is as good as Hamilton either but I regard Hammy as the quickest (but as you say not necessarily best) driver out there. Hamilton needs to get a bit more consistent and he would be, by a mile, the best driver in the world, in my opinion.

Yes, he beat Prost to the title in 1988, but as I said, if we looked at the entire season, Prost beat Senna. I'm not taking anything away from Senna, but unless your going to tell me Senna didn't try in 5 of the 16 races that season - Prost was the better driver THAT season - over the 16 races. He then beat Senna in 1989, despite the fact Honda were favouring Senna, at some races giving him a pace advantage of 1 second a lap, and then he would have beaten Senna in 1990 but for Senna crashing into him at 190mph.

Also, you appear to be deliberately ignoring the fact that had Senna not been disqualified from Japan 89, he would not necessarily have been a champion. It would have simply prolonged his title challenge into the last race. The problem with Senna is he relied on his opponents to move out of his way - Prost refused to make way, hence the collision. If your going to call Prost a cheat, you have to include Senna in that - what he did the following year was ten times worse. Prost asked for clarification about the ruling, the stewards made the decision, not Prost. What Senna did was dangerous, we saw what happened to Connelly earlier in the season, and Senna decides to ram an opponent, deliberately, off at 190mph. It is quite astonishing no punishment was handed out for that. Really, he had no right to complain about what he felt was unjust, because he got away with that with no punishment for something much worse.

I should have clarified, Senna was involved in too many collisions, some of which resulted in retirements, others that affected his eventual finishing position, and others that affected others. I was referring to only incidents that resulting in retirement. However your right, looking back at 1992, the majority of his retirements were due poor reliability of the McLaren.

[Mark]

Ah yes Ceefax p360. My Motorsport news source for many years!

[steveaki13]

P360 still going but not for much longer i fear.

[MrJan]

I'd completely forgotten about Ceefax being my source motorsport news. I think 364 was rallying, always my first port of call.

[GridGirl]

I enjoyed the Senna film but maybe more so because it reminded me of what passed me by. Although I have watched F1 from as long as I can remember I happened to live in a Mansell household. I remember watching races that featured in the film but at the time I was never absorbed into the Senna - Prost battle more so that I was only interested whether Mansell could beat them both. I'd also completely forgotten what a complete A grade prat Jean Marie Ballestre was.

After the movie I looked up Terry Fullerton they guy who Senna said was the best driver he ever raced with. I found it quite interesting that he had a brother that died in a motorcycling accident and that combined with the high fatality rate in motorsport at the time is the reason why he gave up racing. I'd never heard of him before the film so I was quite pleasantly surprised to see that he's helped the likes of Allan McNish, Daniel Wheldon, Anthony Davidson and Paul di Resta at various points in their careers. Maybe he could have been the greatest driver of all time. I suppose we'll never know.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

ah yes ceefax p360. My motorsport news source for many years!

p363 - btcc :d

[Bruce D]

Perhaps someone will make a film based on Malcolm Folley's book "Senna Versus Prost" which should provide the balance you're seeking, although apparently that book is biased in favour of Prost :p :

Well I've read that book and yes it is biased towards Prost and I am a Prost fan, but as they admit, he has the advantage of still being able to speak about things. It is more interesting than this movie though.

I've actually just finished watching the movie and I felt it was a total let down after all the hype. Badly edited in places (why do 1988 turbo cars sound like V10 engines in the Japanese GP segment?), some things rather conveniently left out which might have put him in a bad light. Overall I thought it was a very average film that could have been done better, certainly not a quality of movie I was expecting. To brush straight past Donington 1993 reduces the value of the film right there. Seems like a low budget production really.

[The Black Knight]

Well I've read that book and yes it is biased towards Prost and I am a Prost fan, but as they admit, he has the advantage of still being able to speak about things. It is more interesting than this movie though.

I've actually just finished watching the movie and I felt it was a total let down after all the hype. Badly edited in places (why do 1988 turbo cars sound like V10 engines in the Japanese GP segment?), some things rather conveniently left out which might have put him in a bad light. Overall I thought it was a very average film that could have been done better, certainly not a quality of movie I was expecting. To brush straight past Donington 1993 reduces the value of the film right there. Seems like a low budget production really.

Agree with this totally. They ****ed up bigtime there.

[SGWilko]

Well I've read that book and yes it is biased towards Prost and I am a Prost fan, but as they admit, he has the advantage of still being able to speak about things. It is more interesting than this movie though.

I've actually just finished watching the movie and I felt it was a total let down after all the hype. Badly edited in places (why do 1988 turbo cars sound like V10 engines in the Japanese GP segment?), some things rather conveniently left out which might have put him in a bad light. Overall I thought it was a very average film that could have been done better, certainly not a quality of movie I was expecting. To brush straight past Donington 1993 reduces the value of the film right there. Seems like a low budget production really.

In order to have the film appeal to all, not just seasoned F1 die hards, they could not possibly have crammed everything into under 2 hours of footage. Something had to give I am afraid or the normal watching public would have got very bored. Get the DVD and watch the extended cut - still not enough space for everything though.

[Mark]

I too was very surprised they didn't include Donington. I know there was limited space but just 2 minutes could have had the entire first lap and comments.

[Mark]

I too was very surprised they didn't include Donington. I know there was limited space but just 2 minutes could have had the entire first lap and comments.

[wedge]

I too was very surprised they didn't include Donington. I know there was limited space but just 2 minutes could have had the entire first lap and comments.

Couldn't fit it in during editing and it ended up as clip on the final credits.

It's been analysed to death and wholeheartedly agree with the Brazil commentator that 1993 was arguably Senna's best/greatest season. Besides, Senna himself said that race was not the best win, Portugal 1985 was better because he had no driver aids.

[vx1054]

The release date for the DVD & Blu Ray is the 10th October 2011 according to Amazon.

Also found this interesting limited edition:

Senna - Limited Collector's Edition Triple Play Blu-ray + DVD + Digital Copy - With 1:12 F1 Lotus Model: Amazon.co.uk: Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Frank Williams, Asif Kapadia: Film & TV (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Senna-Limited-Collectors-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B005F44X36/ref=sr_1_51?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1312235987&sr=1-51)

[BMW_320_IRL]

The release date for the DVD & Blu Ray is the 10th October 2011 according to Amazon.

Must have !
One of a hand full of driving-genius!

[Bagwan]

I just watched this movie last night .

What impressed me the most was the lengths they must have gone to , to get the moments shown in the film .

As they spoke about how Ferrari dumped Prost , they showed the very moment that they peeled his name off the car . I find it almost unbelieveable that they could find that moment of time in the archives .

This film represents a monumental task in editting , and I must salute it's makers .

[philipbain]

As they spoke about how Ferrari dumped Prost , they showed the very moment that they peeled his name off the car . I find it almost unbelieveable that they could find that moment of time in the archives .

This film represents a monumental task in editting , and I must salute it's makers .

I believe that the shots of Ferrari taking down the hoarding outside the garage and taking his name off the car were included in the 1991 season review video (its a tragic yet impressive fact that I have the reviews of every F1 season from 1970 - 2011) so it's likely that the film makers took those shots from the master of that review. However there is loads of previously little / unseen footage in Senna, including Ayrton qualifying in his Lotus Renault, the sheer speed and car control is mind boggling, seeing the car move about that much on super sticky qualifying tyres is quite amazing, just shows how much on the limit of adhesion he was.

[Bagwan]

I believe that the shots of Ferrari taking down the hoarding outside the garage and taking his name off the car were included in the 1991 season review video (its a tragic yet impressive fact that I have the reviews of every F1 season from 1970 - 2011) so it's likely that the film makers took those shots from the master of that review. However there is loads of previously little / unseen footage in Senna, including Ayrton qualifying in his Lotus Renault, the sheer speed and car control is mind boggling, seeing the car move about that much on super sticky qualifying tyres is quite amazing, just shows how much on the limit of adhesion he was.

How about the moment with Ratzenburger , just before the incident that took his life ?
And , the footage with Ron in the driver's meetings ?

Lots of digging , then harsh decision-making in the process of this film .

[wedge]

How about the moment with Ratzenburger , just before the incident that took his life ?
And , the footage with Ron in the driver's meetings ?

Lots of digging , then harsh decision-making in the process of this film .

A lot of the 'rare' footage were viewable on YT.

The footage that had the most impact on me was how much of star Senna was in his own country. One of those things that is some how not believable until you witness the magnitude, contrasted that with the socio-political Brazil then.


Q: I was watching the excellent documentary Senna recently and I'm currently fascinated by this amazing man. I was wondering how he was viewed in Brazil.
Stuart Banham

Ayrton Senna remains a revered national hero. I remember being on a beach on the Sao Paulo coast in April 1993, when suddenly everyone was on their feet cheering and celebrating. Why? Because Senna had just won a Grand Prix in England. I couldn’t think of anyone in our culture who would provoke the same scale of response. He was successful in that long, dry time when Brazil was not winning World Cups – and also when there was little to celebrate in Brazilian public and economic life.

The fact that he was a rich kid winning in the sport of rich kids is also important. Middle-class Brazilians could relate to him more easily than to many of the footballers.

BBC - Tim Vickery: Football is a class act (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2012/01/football_is_a_class_act.html)


However, I do maintain that Senna's apparent aura at press conferences is the stuff myth making especially coming from respectable journalists.

[BDunnell]

However, I do maintain that Senna's apparent aura at press conferences is the stuff myth making especially coming from respectable journalists.

There is certainly an extent to which some of his more spiritual pronouncements are treated with what might seem like undue reverence — but, if this was what he said, what can journalists do but report it?

[wedge]

There is certainly an extent to which some of his more spiritual pronouncements are treated with what might seem like undue reverence — but, if this was what he said, what can journalists do but report it?

I'm not a religious man but I have no problem with this.

It is easy to mock religion but Senna was one of, if not, thee most fascinating driver/character study in the history of F1.

Religion was part of his make up and as we all know Senna was a man of many contradictions which makes Senna so deeply fascinating. Just yesterday I was reading Joe Saward's 1993/Autosport interview and much of it was how religion played a part of his life. He sought solace, comfort and unfortunately it seems IMO - divinity.

He had great command of the English language - and could be very eloquent as well. Perhaps it is this what commanded respect from journalists and in hindsight elevated him into something else entirely.

[FAL]

He had great command of the English language - and could be very eloquent as well. Perhaps it is this what commanded respect from journalists and in hindsight elevated him into something else entirely.

Well....sort of? Right to the end some of his English was still coloured by what he had been taught by British mechanics in the early days (FF, F3). This was all too common with foreign drivers who spent their formative racing years in England. It was certainly done deliberately, in the hope the driver would not realise some of the 4 letter words used routinely around the garage should not be repeated in more formal circumstances! It certainly worked with Senna.

[wedge]

Well....sort of? Right to the end some of his English was still coloured by what he had been taught by British mechanics in the early days (FF, F3). This was all too common with foreign drivers who spent their formative racing years in England. It was certainly done deliberately, in the hope the driver would not realise some of the 4 letter words used routinely around the garage should not be repeated in more formal circumstances! It certainly worked with Senna.

I was thinking of instances such as when he described his higher state of consciousness during quali in the 1988 Monaco GP with Gerald Donaldson or explaining why religion was important to him with Joe Saward.

[Malbec]

I was thinking of instances such as when he described his higher state of consciousness during quali in the 1988 Monaco GP with Gerald Donaldson or explaining why religion was important to him with Joe Saward.

Few drivers have ever let the outside world take a look at what makes them tick in the way Senna did which made him quite special while he was alive from a press point of view. Then again his experiences where he was criticised for what he had said to the press probably made later drivers much more careful in what they said. For example in terms of religious faith Schumacher and Barrichello were said to be pretty devout and were extremely upset at racing on Easter weekends. I'm sure their faiths influenced their driving careers somehow yet both have been incredibly careful not to divulge anything.

I've read a few interviews which have been incredibly interesting where drivers have let their guard down and discussed intensely personal things. Ralf Schumacher talking to Atlas the year he retired from F1 about what its like to be the younger brother or about his achievements demonstrated a character just as complex and full of contradictions as Senna's except that it was carefully hidden from view. I'm sure there are other examples, Trulli comes to mind also.

[wedge]

I've read a few interviews which have been incredibly interesting where drivers have let their guard down and discussed intensely personal things. Ralf Schumacher talking to Atlas the year he retired from F1 about what its like to be the younger brother or about his achievements demonstrated a character just as complex and full of contradictions as Senna's except that it was carefully hidden from view. I'm sure there are other examples, Trulli comes to mind also.

But they will never gain a certain mythical status as Senna does now.

[Malbec]

But they will never gain a certain mythical status as Senna does now.

Thats my point. There are plenty of deeply interesting characters in F1 but few open up to the press in the way Senna did. IMO that is why he reached near mythical status in most countries, though I think his stupendous popularity in Brazil and Japan were due to other factors.

[wedge]

Thats my point. There are plenty of deeply interesting characters in F1 but few open up to the press in the way Senna did.

I think I would agree with you there.

*strokes beard*

[MAX_THRUST]

Watched it a couple of weeks ago. The drivers meeting was the most interesting part of the film. Seems the FIA has always been Crap.

[Sulland]

Just watched the film for the forst time.
Got he same ugly feeling inside seing that training with the accident of Barricello and the death of Ratzenberger. And the mood in the field, and that Ayrton did not want to race after those two.

Then the day F1 changed for ever, when Senna died. As said my feeling tonight were almost as strong as they were in 94.

F1 has never been the same since!

The thing he said about Fullerton in karting at the end was good to hear. Real racing without politics and money - best racing of his life !

[ronbbuckner]

I loved this film . :)